ok so *maybe* I overreacted........

[OrganicAnn]

I consider "setting them up for a lie" is when you know the answer and still ask the kid "did you do that?". You don't really need to ask, since you know.

 

Of course if you really do need to ask because you don't know, then when they answer 'No' how do you know it is a lie?

[Mom23Boys]

I don't understand the "don't set them up to lie" idea. I think that practice answering hard questions truthfully even if the answer gets a little one in trouble is very, very important. Talk about major life lessons. Always going out of your way to avoid the wrong questions seems to ignore the issue that a child is lying. You don't change your behavior to skirt the problem, you try again and teach your child not to lie when questioned.

 

:iagree: But, I will say that when my kids are very young, I do avoid asking questions when it is blatantly obvious that they did whatever. I mean, why ask a 2 or 3 year year old if they ate cake when there is cake all over their face?

 

Both of my older kids, ages 8 and 7 have gone through the lying stage. My 7 year old is more likely to lie than my 8 year old. If he is standing there with cake in his hand, I don't ask because that seems silly, but otherwise, I ask. He needs to practice telling the truth and accepting consequences when he makes a bad decision. He is *very* easy to read and quite frankly not a very good liar, so it is obvious when he is lying and I call him on it. Every time.

 

To the OP: I don't think you over-reacted at all. It can be hard to enforce consequences, but worth it in the long run. At least, that is what I am telling myself, I haven't made it to the other side yet. :tongue_smilie:

[Sputterduck]

I consider "setting them up for a lie" is when you know the answer and still ask the kid "did you do that?". You don't really need to ask, since you know.

 

Of course if you really do need to ask because you don't know, then when they answer 'No' how do you know it is a lie?

 

Maybe that's a good reason to ask when you know the answer. You get a good idea of where they are in their heart concerning lies. How else would a parent know? Ask so you can deal with it, knowing for sure whether they lied or not. If you wait until you don't know, well, then you have no way to know the truth or to know if there is a lying problem to deal with at all.

[the4Rs]

Yep... you overreacted. But I have anger issues too and I overreact a lot because of my anger. It's just as much of a sin as lying is. And two wrongs don't make a right. Yet, still I struggle. So, I don't say this to condemn you but to sympathize a bit.

 

I am trying to learn how to curb my anger to deal appropriately with a situation that comes up with my kids without unleashing my "holy mama fury" on them because they did something wrong. Instead of focusing on their sin/issue (lying), my sin/issue(anger) has taken over the situation when I just react. Instead it would have been better once you asked her if she ate them, knowing she had, to say calmly (even if you are seething inside).. "You have lied to me and you know how I feel about lying. I must think about a punishment for you." Then close your mouth and say nothing as you think about what to do. Then when you are calmer you give the punishment. The times I stop to calm down before I discipline my kids, the lesson I want them to learn (i.e. not lying) has a greater impact and they see a mommy in control of the situation.

 

I mess this up more than I care to admit but I am trying to do better. People with anger issues make the people they live with walk on pins and needles. Their family tries to hide things hoping to avoid the wrath of the angry person. It has been a rude awakening for me but God is teaching me a lot about my sin and the impact it has on my family and their behaviors.

[EthiopianFood]

I don't understand the "don't set them up to lie" idea. I think that practice answering hard questions truthfully even if the answer gets a little one in trouble is very, very important. Talk about major life lessons. Always going out of your way to avoid the wrong questions seems to ignore the issue that a child is lying. You don't change your behavior to skirt the problem, you try again and teach your child not to lie when questioned.

 

I feel the same way, but I always figured it was my relative lack of experience in parenting that caused it.

[EthiopianFood]

Maybe that's a good reason to ask when you know the answer. You get a good idea of where they are in their heart concerning lies. How else would a parent know? Ask so you can deal with it, knowing for sure whether they lied or not. If you wait until you don't know, well, then you have no way to know the truth or to know if there is a lying problem to deal with at all.

 

Aaaaand this, too!

[Peela]

I don't understand the "don't set them up to lie" idea. I think that practice answering hard questions truthfully even if the answer gets a little one in trouble is very, very important. Talk about major life lessons. Always going out of your way to avoid the wrong questions seems to ignore the issue that a child is lying. You don't change your behavior to skirt the problem, you try again and teach your child not to lie when questioned.

 

I always think deep life lessons are best taught from a patient and well considered place rather than an over reactive one. Two wrongs- lying and then a mother losing her temper over it- do not make a right. But to me, losing my temper with my kids automatically puts me into self -reflective ode in how *I* could have handled the situation better- and my behaviour is ultimately all I can be 100% responsible for. Teaching a child a lesson is great- using anger to do it is generally not, even though we are human and do it sometimes. Owning our own issues can help a child deal with theirs because they see our humanness and our courage.

It also seems to be just common sense to avoid putting a child with a weakness, in the way of temptation - such as to lie. When I want to give up chocolate, I don't keep it in the house. I don't leave it around to make myself stronger. I avoid it. It is part of an intelligent approach, not an avoidance of the whole issue.

[2squared]

You know, I can be convinced either way as I read everyone's posts. But, then, I had a situation with my 4yo yesterday. He left the chicken door open, and as a result, a baby chick got out and died. Dh (in anger) asked him if he left the door open. Of course ds said "No." I would have too. :001_huh: I walked away with ds and told him that I wasn't going to ask him if he did it because I already knew that he did, and I went on to explain the ramifications. I then asked him why he did it, and he told me that he tried to shut the door but he couldn't get it closed.

 

As I reflect, I believe that dh's method (asking a question in anger that he already know the answer to) paved a path toward lieing. My approach walked my dc toward a path of confession. The confession was much harder than the lie.

[2squared]

It also seems to be just common sense to avoid putting a child with a weakness, in the way of temptation - such as to lie.

 

:iagree:

[ktgrok]

oh my heavens, this is getting to be a bit much. I didn't say something out of anger that I didn't mean. I *did* feel a bit like I was being too harsh but really, as time has gone on, I don't feel that anymore. The guilt has worn off as I've spent the night preparing for our trip.

 

Food as a weapon - I'm too tired to touch on that. But if you have an adopted child with severe issues, you just may parent them and discipline them differently. You may never WANT to, but you may find that it's necessary, and you may also find that therapists will also tell you normal parenting and normal discipline measures won't work.

 

So the peanut butter for my dd8 won't be addressed again in this thread again, thankyouverymuch.

 

I'm not attacking you personally, just putting my very exhausted foot down on this one.

 

I apologize if I misunderstood. When you originally posted it seemed that you felt you had overreacted, and punished harder than you felt was appropriate. That is what I meant by speaking in anger and saying things you don't mean. If you did mean them, and would have said the same thing if you were not angry, then I withdraw that comment.

 

I had no way of knowing that your other child has special circumstances that require limiting of food as a punishment. I did know that twice in one day you limited food as a punishment, which, with no other information, sure seemed odd. Thank you for explaining further.

[ktgrok]

I consider "setting them up for a lie" is when you know the answer and still ask the kid "did you do that?". You don't really need to ask, since you know.

 

Of course if you really do need to ask because you don't know, then when they answer 'No' how do you know it is a lie?

 

I think it has been shown that developmentally almost all kids will lie in this situation, up until a certain age. i'm not sure what that age is though.

[plansrme]

My kids are all on notice that I hate lying above all other transgressions. I have told them many times that (1) I would rather they total my car than lie to me; (2) I overreact and over-punish when it comes to lying; and, therefore, (3) DON'T LIE TO ME. Does one of them still lie on occasion? Absolutely. Do I overreact and over-punish her, as promised? Absolutely. Does it help? Maybe. Would I do it anyway? Definitely.

 

I had a parent who lied to me, repeatedly, from the time that I was about 13 on until the present. Now he or she lies to my children, which is one of the big reasons that they have minimal contact with this parent. I hated it when I was a child, and I hate it now, and this experience is undoubtedly why I react so harshly to lying from one of my children.

 

Sure, you overreacted, but you also showed your daughter that truthfulness is important in your family. It's like the time my then-3-year-old opened the car door while we were driving down the street. I pulled over and lit into her like I had never done before so that she would never, ever forget it. It was a life-or-death issue, and if I permanently scarred her to keep her from dying, well so be it! You did the character-training equivalent of my tongue-lashing for opening the car door. It may well take more than one such tongue-lashing, but still, in my book, if that is what it takes to impress this upon their hearts, that's just what it takes.

 

Terri

[NanceXToo]

Didn't read the whole thing but may I make a suggestion? Maybe you should start considering how to word things to her in a way that gives her less opportunity to lie. Instead of "Did you eat that candy" when you know she did, tell her "You should not have eaten that candy without permission. Please ask next time" or whatever. Of course she could still lie by protesting "I didn't" but maybe it would help some of the time. Also make a concerted effort to praise her when she tells the truth. I don't like lying either but some kids see it as a self preservation thing, I guess.

[KS_]

I don't think that when you ask a child if they did something they shouldn't have that you're setting them up to lie. They are setting themselves up to lie when they choose to do something they know is wrong and are clearly old enough to think ahead to how they will respond when mom finds out.

 

I was going to say something along these lines - can you approach her from a different direction when you know she's done something? Ask the question in a different way so she can't just automatically say "No, I didn't." I think her reaction to deny is so strong you may need to help her not to do that automatically.

[gardening momma]

You know, making judgments based upon observation of available evidence, is a necessary part of the critical thinking process. Something of which this board should be reasonably tolerant.

Part of the critical thinking process includes realizing that you don't know exactly what kind of food, the quantity, the frequency it is eaten, what else it is eaten with, etc. Also that you don't know what else will be eaten while they are there. I do believe she said in the OP that this food was for the drive there and back. So what are they eating while they are there? Logical thinking would include the realization that you don't have all the information.

Edited June 3, 2011 by gardening momma

[texasmama]

As others have suggested, I don't set my kids up to lie. If I am clear that they did something which broke a rule, I present it as fact. "From the smell of candy in the car, I see that you have disobeyed my request to not eat it until we are on our trip. The consequence for that will be that we will not be taking any candy on our trip."

 

Many kids (and adults) will have the knee jerk reaction to lie when asked "Did you eat the candy?"

 

I also always make it easier to tell the truth than to lie, if at all possible. Although all of my kids have lied to me along the way, none of them have persistent issues with truthfulness. I have always praised truthfulness and found ways to help them "save face" when a situation arises where there is a potential to lie.

 

I don't know if that is helpful going forward or not (to the OP or anyone).

 

Regarding the question of overreaction or being overly punitive...if I ever feel that I have imposed a punishment that is overly harsh, I will speak to my kids about that and adjust it to what seems appropriate to me after I have cooled down some. IMO, that models what to do when one makes a mistake, which is a valuable life skill. I don't think my kids respect me or my authority any less for having adopted this way of approaching things. Again, that may or may not be of value to anyone reading this, but it is what I do with my own kids.

[Aelwydd]

Part of the critical thinking process includes realizing that you don't know exactly how much food, the quantity, the frequency it is eaten, what else it is eaten with, etc. Also that you don't know what else will be eaten while they are there. I do believe she said in the OP that this food was for the drive there and back. So what are they eating while they are there? Logical thinking would include the realization that you don't have all the information.

 

Riiiiiight, which is why FLmom simply posted her concern. The fact that food was present was not the issue; it was whether the food was being used as a tool to reward and punish. There was enough information to justify this being a possibility. FLmom acknowledged she didn't have all the information; the fact that you jumped on her makes your post seem much more "judgmental" than anything she said.

[gardening momma]

Riiiiiight, which is why FLmom simply posted her concern. The fact that food was present was not the issue; it was whether the food was being used as a tool to reward and punish. There was enough information to justify this being a possibility. FLmom acknowledged she didn't have all the information; the fact that you jumped on her makes your post seem much more "judgmental" than anything she said.

There has been a lot of insistence in this thread that food is being used as a punishment or as a weapon. I think that is overreacting and accusatory. Withdrawing certain types of food for one reason or other is not necessarily a bad thing. She's not withdrawing nutrition from her daughter.

[ktgrok]

There has been a lot of insistence in this thread that food is being used as a punishment or as a weapon. I think that is overreacting and accusatory. Withdrawing certain types of food for one reason or other is not necessarily a bad thing. She's not withdrawing nutrition from her daughter.

 

I was one of the ones that brought up my concern with the use of food as a weapon/punishment. I only ASKED if that was going on, because I did realize I didn't have all the facts. I just knew that in two instances in one day she used food as a punishment system, for two different kids. So I asked. I did not judge.

 

And as someone with an eating disorder, I feel strongly about the issue.

[secular_mom]

but I'm sticking to my guns.

 

Dd11 is a BLESSING of a child to have. She does have this issue, though, where lies don't seem to be much of a problem for her lately. If there's ONE thing I can't STAND- it's a liar. She *KNOWS* this. I don't care whether it's a big lie or a small one, a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie and I *HATE* all lies with a passion!

 

I'm taking dd to PA for a synchro swim competition in PA, 8 hour drive to get there, two nights lodging. It's NOT going to be cheap and it's a lot of work on me. We planned our menu together and are having GREAT food on the way down: Large shrimp, sliced red and green bell peppers, cukes, baby carrots, favorite dressing as a dip, sourdough bread, bagels, lox, cream cheese w/chives, cherries, watermelon. I bought some Everlasting Gobstoppers, bubble gum, and sesame seed/honey candies for treats. Dd has a HUGE sweet tooth and we mostly let her satisfy her cravings by having fruits daily and fairly regular ice cream treats.

 

Well, I could smell that she got into the sesame seed candy while I was pumping gas. I asked her if she had some and she said that she hadn't. I knew it was a lie and it set me off. I was running errands ALL DAY to prepare for her trip and this just set me off!!!!!!!!! I got so angry at her that I told her that she would have NO fruit or candy AT ALL on the trip. It's not that she had the candy without permission that bothered me so much, it was that she lied about it. I do believe I over reacted but really, I just HATE a liar! Can you get my drift? I wish I had told her NO CANDY AT ALL, but I added in the fruit because of the sweetness.

 

So now I'm going to stick to it no matter what. I told her no fruit or candy so that's what it will be. I've been dealing with a HUGE guilt trip ever since. If there's one thing I will discipline too harshly for, it will be lying. I do it in the moment because I just have such an issue with it.

 

Siiiiiiiiiiiiigh. I'm not going to change this now, but honestly....... do you think I over reacted? I kind of wish I had given her SOME fruit but no candy, but I'm sticking to my guns this time.

I haven't read the other replies but here's my take. I think you set her up in the first place, you already KNEW she had gotten into the candy, and you've already said that wasn't a big deal to you. Why the heck did you ask her if she had? You already knew the answer, so were you 'testing' her to see if she would tell the truth or lie? I think you overreacted to the eating of the candy (by setting her up to lie) and also about the lying (which you set her up to do). You do NOT have to stick to the punishment you've chosen, there is still a choice to make here. You can apologize for setting her up and for overreacting and then decide where to go from there. Or you can choose to stay where you are (punishing child for your mistake, IMO) or something else entirely. :grouphug: We all mess up now and then, and it's very humbling to apologize to a child and admit our mistakes. I would be working on myself, honestly- trying to train myself to not ask such questions in the future. In such situations it is always better to say, "I see/smell that you've had some of the sesame seed candy. I bought that for our trip so let's make sure we put it away and save it for the trip, okay?".

[EthiopianFood]

I haven't read the other replies but here's my take. I think you set her up in the first place, you already KNEW she had gotten into the candy, and you've already said that wasn't a big deal to you. Why the heck did you ask her if she had? You already knew the answer, so were you 'testing' her to see if she would tell the truth or lie? I think you overreacted to the eating of the candy (by setting her up to lie) and also about the lying (which you set her up to do). You do NOT have to stick to the punishment you've chosen, there is still a choice to make here. You can apologize for setting her up and for overreacting and then decide where to go from there. Or you can choose to stay where you are (punishing child for your mistake, IMO) or something else entirely. :grouphug: We all mess up now and then, and it's very humbling to apologize to a child and admit our mistakes. I would be working on myself, honestly- trying to train myself to not ask such questions in the future. In such situations it is always better to say, "I see/smell that you've had some of the sesame seed candy. I bought that for our trip so let's make sure we put it away and save it for the trip, okay?".

 

Is it really that unreasonable to expect an 11 year old not to sneak candy that she will be having later anyway? :confused:

[texasmama]

Is it really that unreasonable to expect an 11 year old not to sneak candy that she will be having later anyway? :confused:

 

No, it's not unreasonable for the OP to expect this. However, children are sometimes impulsive, willful, disobedient, etc. Adults are, as well. It's human nature. The OP did expect her dd not to sneak candy, but her dd did it anyway. So it was left to the OP to decide how to react to her dd's disobedience. The OP wondered if her reaction was an overreaction and she sought feedback for this. I don't think that anyone would disagree that the OP's expectation was appropriate for her 11 year old, who is otherwise basically a well-behaved kid without any identified special needs.

[secular_mom]

Is it really that unreasonable to expect an 11 year old not to sneak candy that she will be having later anyway? :confused:

:confused:

when and where did I imply that expecting her not to sneak the candy was unreasonable? Since you asked, for MY kids, yes that would be an unreasonable expectation but MY kids have some 'issues' which I don't care to discuss here. I have no idea if the OP's kids have any issues that would make such an expectation unreasonable. I don't get where your question to me is coming from. I was addressing what *I* think is an unreasonable expectation of expecting the child not to lie to avoid being in trouble.

I don't know why I bother posting here really. I wish the OP the best of luck in future dealings with her DC. I'm out of here- have fun.

[DawnM]

Not being allowed candy or sweets (including fruit) will not hurt anyone, just look at the Food Stamps thread! :glare:

 

You did fine. The punishment fit the crime and the OP did not disallow all food or even one meal.....just certain foods. Absolutely appropriate.

:grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

:iagree: I don't know anything at all about the OP but this thread seems to indicate food being used as a consequence/punishment a lot. I think that's a very bad idea - especially for young girls.

 

you are GROSSLY mistaken. The lie was about candy, the natural consequence was to not have sweets. I'm perfectly fine with that decision. I felt bad initially, but I normally do on ANY punishment or consequence. I chose to include fruit, dd had PLENTY of her favorite veggies. I don't care if anyone takes issue with this.

 

By the way, when was fruit a food group in and of itself? Did I miss something?

 

As far as the peanut butter, NOT THAT I OWE ANYONE AN EXPLANATION, but if you have a RAD kid who is acting OUT OF CONTROL and pushing EVERY LAST BUTTON, and you have given them their FINAL WARNING that they will get NO treats if behavior persists, and it does, then they get NO TREATS, and I, for one, will not be pulling out items to make a nice spread for lunch, allowing more time for bad behavior. I will pull out a jar of peanut butter and bread, give you 10 minutes to eat your sandwich, then send you to your room to act out by yourself. I don't have TIME for this when I'm preparing for a trip and found out that I ran over a bunch of screws and have a flat tire so I need to go get all my tires inspected to ensure safe travels. Not that I needed to explain THAT either.

 

RAD moms need only respond to this one. The rest of you will NOT understand.

 

And if anyone has a problem with this: I DON'T CARE TO HEAR ABOUT IT.

 

Thanks!!!

Edited June 4, 2011 by Denisemomof4

[Denisemomof4]

I'll preface my post by saying that I don't view all lies as being equal, and that you'll want to take that into consideration as you read further. My kids see me lie to the grocery clerk that I'm having a good day; to my MIL that I love the hideous shirt she bought me; to my husband that his attempt at spaghetti squash was ... tasty, despite being barely edible.

 

I definitely distinguish lies, somewhat by type but always by intent. Your daughter's intent was to decieve you - and even in my book, that is disrespectful. In our home, the child would be disciplined for attempting to deceive me (as opposed to for lying). The discipline would reflect that, more than it would the actual action (eating the sesame).

 

My kids need to see a co-relation between their wrong and my making it right, if they're going to learn the lesson I desire. If they can't connect the dots, all they're learning is that -in their opinion- I'm a crazy mean mother on a punishment rampage. Even when they CAN connect the dots, they may initially think that LOL but once they've thought it over and we've discussed it ... they can see the appropriatness of the discipline to their action, and they accept it. And agree with it or not, they take more from the lesson than they would have otherwise. I know this because I was just like them. They are the children my parents wished upon me ;)my dd saw that she lied about sweets so sweets were removed from her diet for the car ride. Now that I'm over the guilt. I'm very happy with my decision and don't think it harsh at all.

 

I have a wonderful friend who also is big on the lying platform. It's her thing. She hates it, and understandably so - she's been lied to and betrayed throughout her tragic life. She disciplines harshly for it, admittedly, and knows it's a trigger for her. Poor woman has a child who will lie about her very own name if asked by a stranger, for no reason other than she wishes she were Rainbow instead of Isabella. I empathize with you because I know what a challenge it is for my friend. It's definitely a journey, ever in progress. We all have our platforms, and we're all walking down a journey of some type or kind. We'll all over-react; knowing our triggers is a great start down the long, winding path. You know your trigger is lying, but what is hers? What's behind her impulsivity? Is she like that in general, or just with sweets such as in this situation?she has been doing SO well with lying, and her lies are usually about little things. IT's been awhile since her last lie, but she definitely has a HUGE craving for sweets, and LOVES fruit. In fact fruit would probably have been a first choice for her. Removing fruit from her diet for a day is not going to harm her, and it WILL prove a point. We've had MANY discussions about lying./COLOR]

 

I'm curious - what would her discipline have been for eating the sesame candies had she confessed when you first asked? I've already thought about this. I'm quite sure I would have told her to ask next time and would have moved along. There wouldn't have been a punishment. We rarely buy junk and my kids know that if we do, you ask and we ration.Would it have been any less harsh? If the punishment were likely to be the same (in her eyes), maybe she felt she had nothing to lose by lying. I think your challenge is to approach this from two angles - the immediate (she ate the candies without permission) and the long-term (she attempted to deceive you by lying). If she sees them as being one and the same, which is how it was handled, there really isn't much incentive for her to be honest. Even knowing how much you dislike liars, which - well, suffice it to say we want her to distinguish between the two. It does no child any good to start thinking she is what her parent hates more than anything. Not that you'd make her feel that way, but this is how children sometimes internalize things, you know? I think we've all BTDT in some regard with our own parents or mentors. I can tell you that dd knows how I feel about lying, and she also knows that I love her more than words can say, and NOTHING can change that. Later on last night she genuinely apologized, and I know it was killing her to see me working so hard to prepare for the trip, on top of having to lose a couple of hours over the tire situation, and coming home to take care of so many things so I could take her to her competition. I know that she genuinely felt bad, and I also know she knows I love her and would do just about anything for her. We are so incredibly close.

 

If you feel you need to stick to your guns this time, do so. Maybe also take the opportunity to have a loose game plan for the next time something like this occurs. What might an immediate discipline be (for the transgression) within context of what your long-term plan of action (for lying with intent to deceive)?

 

Immediate: no candy for the duration of the trip, and you're not to be left alone with it. Guess who's gonna be my shadow for a few days. Long-term: (a) if she lies when asked, you simply don't believe her word. about anything. not rubbing it in, not being condescending, just simply verifying everything she says with someone else. (b) if she's honest when asked, you acknowledge her truthfulness and then calmly explain what the immediate consequence is. If your child is motivated by such, you could even add in what her punishment would have been otherwise, had she lied on top of eating the candy. It's all about discipline, though, teaching her what you want since she obviously isn't coming by it intuitively or through your current approach (of punishment). Some kids just need their hands held about what to do, when, and how. Mine included, BTW.

 

And finally, :grouphug:. I've spend hours and money and energy doing wonderful things for my kids (the way you did for this weekend) and when they do something like that it just feels like a small slap on the cheek of everything I try to do for them. It's like, seriously??! Don't you realize the magic that had to happen for me to pull this whole shebang together, and you're gonna ruin it for a few early gnoshes of sesame??! Sigh. So I definitely see why you were ripe for an over-reaction, on top of lying being one of your triggers as it is.

 

thank you for your long, thoughtful, SWEET post.:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

By the way, dd knows to just ASK next time. :001_smile:

[Denisemomof4]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I crave sugar when I'm low in calcium. Denise, consider putting your dd on a calcium&magnesium supplement if tweaking her diet isn't feasible just now.

 

Rosie

 

you know, I've been thinking about this myself. She craves sugar and carbs but couldn't possibly have candida issues. I'm going to have to remember to have her take this. Thanks!!!

[Denisemomof4]

Yep... you overreacted. But I have anger issues too and I overreact a lot because of my anger. It's just as much of a sin as lying is. And two wrongs don't make a right. Yet, still I struggle. So, I don't say this to condemn you but to sympathize a bit.

 

I am trying to learn how to curb my anger to deal appropriately with a situation that comes up with my kids without unleashing my "holy mama fury" on them because they did something wrong. Instead of focusing on their sin/issue (lying), my sin/issue(anger) has taken over the situation when I just react. Instead it would have been better once you asked her if she ate them, knowing she had, to say calmly (even if you are seething inside).. "You have lied to me and you know how I feel about lying. I must think about a punishment for you." Then close your mouth and say nothing as you think about what to do. Then when you are calmer you give the punishment. The times I stop to calm down before I discipline my kids, the lesson I want them to learn (i.e. not lying) has a greater impact and they see a mommy in control of the situation. I *LOVE* this.

 

I mess this up more than I care to admit but I am trying to do better. People with anger issues make the people they live with walk on pins and needles. Their family tries to hide things hoping to avoid the wrath of the angry person. It has been a rude awakening for me but God is teaching me a lot about my sin and the impact it has on my family and their behaviors.

 

the last paragraph doesn't apply to my situation, but thank you!:001_smile:

[clarkacademy]

I am not a RAD mom but I don't care the situation she lied. You had every right to punish her. There is nothing wrong with testing your child to see if they are honest either. If she learns no consequence now who is going to answer for her later. Good job mom. It's rough but the best things in life usually are, and being mom is the best :grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

I always think deep life lessons are best taught from a patient and well considered place rather than an over reactive one. do not make a right. But to me, losing my temper with my kids automatically puts me into self -reflective ode in how *I* could have handled the situation better- and my behaviour is ultimately all I can be 100% responsible for. Teaching a child a lesson is great- using anger to do it is generally not, even though we are human and do it sometimes. Owning our own issues can help a child deal with theirs because they see our humanness and our courage.

It also seems to be just common sense to avoid putting a child with a weakness, in the way of temptation - such as to lie. When I want to give up chocolate, I don't keep it in the house. I don't leave it around to make myself stronger. I avoid it. It is part of an intelligent approach, not an avoidance of the whole issue.

 

AGAIN, you are making a WRONG assumption. I said this before. I didn't lose my temper, I was questioning whether or not my PUNISHMENT was an over reaction.

 

I "lost it" but that doesn't mean a verbal vomit. To send me over the edge doesn't even mean you know you will. *I* will.

 

and to the last part, the candy was in the car as we were running errands. I had it in the front seat with me. I stepped out to pump gas. I shouldn't have to worry about it.

[Denisemomof4]

I apologize if I misunderstood. When you originally posted it seemed that you felt you had overreacted, and punished harder than you felt was appropriate. That is what I meant by speaking in anger and saying things you don't mean. If you did mean them, and would have said the same thing if you were not angry, then I withdraw that comment.shen I wrote here to ask the question, I did feel I was being harsh. After EVERY consequence I normally feel guilt. As time went on, I'm happy I made the decision I did. I stuck to it all day today.

 

I had no way of knowing that your other child has special circumstances that require limiting of food as a punishment. I did know that twice in one day you limited food as a punishment, which, with no other information, sure seemed odd. Thank you for explaining further.

I didn't limit food as a punishment, I got the quickest sandwich together for dd8 so that she could be removed from my and dd11's presence due to her bad behavior. I don't see that as limiting food, I see that as getting her into her own room as quickly as possible. and then NOT blessing her bad behavior by giving her a treat.

[Denisemomof4]

I haven't read the other replies but here's my take. I think you set her up in the first place, you already KNEW she had gotten into the candy, and you've already said that wasn't a big deal to you. Why the heck did you ask her if she had? You already knew the answer, so were you 'testing' her to see if she would tell the truth or lie? I think you overreacted to the eating of the candy (by setting her up to lie) and also about the lying (which you set her up to do). You do NOT have to stick to the punishment you've chosen, there is still a choice to make here. You can apologize for setting her up and for overreacting and then decide where to go from there. Or you can choose to stay where you are (punishing child for your mistake, IMO) or something else entirely. :grouphug: We all mess up now and then, and it's very humbling to apologize to a child and admit our mistakes. I would be working on myself, honestly- trying to train myself to not ask such questions in the future. In such situations it is always better to say, "I see/smell that you've had some of the sesame seed candy. I bought that for our trip so let's make sure we put it away and save it for the trip, okay?".

 

well, I must gently tell you that I disagree with you 100%. Nobody will EVER get me to believe I set my dd up and then *made* her lie. SOrry, this is completely ridiculous.

[Denisemomof4]

Is it really that unreasonable to expect an 11 year old not to sneak candy that she will be having later anyway? :confused:

:iagree:

 

or to ASK first, as I've suggested to dd?

[Denisemomof4]

Boy, that's a tough one. I don't know if you forbid her to eat the candy before leaving on the trip...all I know is that when we travel, the kids are free to snack on whatever I have packed in the snack bag. They'd have no reason to lie.

IMO, you set her up to lie, while there were better ways to confront her over what seems to be a very minor issue. She obviously knows how you feel about liars, and still chose to lie. It sounds like she's afraid of you and your reactions, and risked it to avoid whatever punishment is usually given. As politely as I can say this--I feel for your daughter. I hope it didn't ruin the trip for her.

 

oh my heavens, this is SO RIDICULOUS. Even my dd would laugh at this one. Afraid of me? Feel for my dd? Ruin the trip?

 

I won't bother. Not worth it.

[Denisemomof4]

Boy, that's a tough one. I don't know if you forbid her to eat the candy before leaving on the trip...all I know is that when we travel, the kids are free to snack on whatever I have packed in the snack bag. They'd have no reason to lie.

IMO, you set her up to lie, while there were better ways to confront her over what seems to be a very minor issue. She obviously knows how you feel about liars, and still chose to lie. It sounds like she's afraid of you and your reactions, and risked it to avoid whatever punishment is usually given. As politely as I can say this--I feel for your daughter. I hope it didn't ruin the trip for her.

Basically, I'm not into the 'scared straight' type of parenting.

 

:confused:

 

comical. truly.

[Joker]

you are GROSSLY mistaken. The lie was about candy, the natural consequence was to not have sweets. I'm perfectly fine with that decision. I felt bad initially, but I normally do on ANY punishment or consequence. I chose to include fruit, dd had PLENTY of her favorite veggies. I don't care if anyone takes issue with this.

 

Thanks!!!

 

You've quoted my original reply twice and this is the last time I will post in this thread. You came on here saying you might have over reacted. Several posters have said that they think maybe you did. Before you mentioned any special needs you said you used food as a consequence/punishment with two different children. That raised flags for many. I prefaced my comment with the fact I didn't know you but I was worried about the message you might be sending. I didn't know one of your dds has RAD and I have already apologized for any offense.

[secular_mom]

well, I must gently tell you that I disagree with you 100%. Nobody will EVER get me to believe I set my dd up and then *made* her lie. SOrry, this is completely ridiculous.

That's fine. You know, it seems to me that all the threads you've started that I have read have you asking for opinions and advice, and people try to give that to you respectfully. Maybe with terminology you don't like or don't want to hear, maybe a viewpoint you find offensive in and of itself. We don't live in your home with you, we don't know anything about your life or your situations except what you tell us. You ALWAYS use LOTS OF CAPS when you are responding to points that YOU DON'T SEEM TO LIKE AT ALL, and you ALWAYS make a point of REPLYING AND QUOTING POSTS just to say that you find them absurd and you WILL NOT RESPOND. :001_huh: If you don't want to hear different PsOV about your situations, and you do NOT WANT ADVICE then STOP ASKING FOR IT. It's terribly rude of you to ask for input and then say that everyone you disagree with simply CANNOT UNDERSTAND your situation and OBVIOUSLY does NOT UNDERSTAND what you were TRYING to convey in your OP and subsequent posts in your threads. If you DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO RESPOND then WHY POST??????? (all the caps are meant slightly as emphasis but mostly as tongue in cheek cheekyness, that is meant to make my point in a friendly banter sort of way, I don't know how else to convey that except for writing this disclaimer ;))

Honestly, your disagreeing with me does not bother me in the least. I do want to point out that I did not say that you 'made' your daughter lie. I asked you WHY you asked her IF she did something that YOU KNEW she did in the first place? WHAT WAS THE POINT in ASKING that QUESTION?

YOU DON'T seem to answer questions you don't like. *shrugs* That's fine, no one is FORCING you to do so. We're just trying to have a CONVERSATION here.

I don't know why I came back to this thread. I think I'll do you a favor and never reply to your posts again. I mean you no disrespect, and I'm sure no one else in this thread did either. :grouphug: I just think it's obvious that you always know the answer, or you always figure it out on your own anyway so I won't bother answering any more of your questions from now on. Peace, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your trip.

Edited June 4, 2011 by secular_mom

[Peela]

Denise, you did start this thread saying you don't think you over reacted but asked for our opinions anyway, as to whether we thought you did. It seemed you wanted some other perspectives but you kind of had your mind made up already.

 

You then dismissed pretty much all the opinions where people said they felt you did over react, or they would have handled it differently. We only had what you wrote to go on, and from what you wrote it did sound like you reacted out of an angry and upset place, and many of us would have handled the situation differently from you, or would have liked to, anyway, even if we can relate to your situation.

 

I just feel the way you responded to many posts here seems to me that you dont really appreciate the opinions people have, even though you said you did. I dont think anyone meant anything bad or judged you as a bad mother or attacked you or unreasonably took what you said out of perspective, even though they might not have taken what you wrote the way you intended it.

 

I truly would not make such a fuss out of it- and I would drop it quickly, and I do not have such a big load around the "lying" that you do. I encourage my kids to tell the truth, I don't focus so much on the lying. But that's me.

 

But you did ask, and we did offer, from our own perspective, given what you wrote and how we naturally responded from our own experience and what it seemed you were saying. I guess I didn't feel I was received graciously, or that other people were received graciously, even if you didn't agree with us. We don't have to agree- you feel you responded just fine, you didn't over react- but you did ask what we thought. We have all been in similar situations and have to evaluate our parenting strategies repeatedly.

 

I guess it takes a certain thick skin to handle responses here sometimes, but I really think if you ask such a question its good to be able to handle a different opinion or perspective than your own. I really don't think anyone was heavily judging you, although if you are feeling a certain way I know it might feel that way. Kindness was meant, opinions were offered with good intention, and I feel you maybe took our responses too personally. I am not sure. No harm was meant, in any case.

[EthiopianFood]

No, it's not unreasonable for the OP to expect this. However, children are sometimes impulsive, willful, disobedient, etc. Adults are, as well. It's human nature. The OP did expect her dd not to sneak candy, but her dd did it anyway. So it was left to the OP to decide how to react to her dd's disobedience. The OP wondered if her reaction was an overreaction and she sought feedback for this. I don't think that anyone would disagree that the OP's expectation was appropriate for her 11 year old, who is otherwise basically a well-behaved kid without any identified special needs.

 

:confused:

when and where did I imply that expecting her not to sneak the candy was unreasonable? Since you asked, for MY kids, yes that would be an unreasonable expectation but MY kids have some 'issues' which I don't care to discuss here. I have no idea if the OP's kids have any issues that would make such an expectation unreasonable. I don't get where your question to me is coming from. I was addressing what *I* think is an unreasonable expectation of expecting the child not to lie to avoid being in trouble.

I don't know why I bother posting here really. I wish the OP the best of luck in future dealings with her DC. I'm out of here- have fun.

 

I guess I just don't understand telling the OP that she needs to apologize to her dd, and that she overreacted by not allowing her candy because she snuck candy and then lied about it. I get not giving a punishment for a two year old, but if a child is clearly old enough to know better, then I have no idea what would be a more logical consequence than the one the OP doled out.

[YLVD]

I think not allowing her to have candy is logical. I think not allowing fruit as a normal part of a meal is excessive and illogical. And "restricting" a child to peanut butter and jelly as a punishment seems odd to me.

 

I agree. The candy thing is understandable. But, using food as punishment really sets kids up, especially girls, for food control issues later. I would stop that right away. JMO

 

Edited to add...I just saw the bit about the special needs child. I understand that it takes special forms of punishment. But, if at all possible, try not to use food with any of them.

Edited June 4, 2011 by YLVD
add information

[YLVD]

you are GROSSLY mistaken. The lie was about candy, the natural consequence was to not have sweets. I'm perfectly fine with that decision. I felt bad initially, but I normally do on ANY punishment or consequence. I chose to include fruit, dd had PLENTY of her favorite veggies. I don't care if anyone takes issue with this.

 

By the way, when was fruit a food group in and of itself? Did I miss something?

 

As far as the peanut butter, NOT THAT I OWE ANYONE AN EXPLANATION, but if you have a RAD kid who is acting OUT OF CONTROL and pushing EVERY LAST BUTTON, and you have given them their FINAL WARNING that they will get NO treats if behavior persists, and it does, then they get NO TREATS, and I, for one, will not be pulling out items to make a nice spread for lunch, allowing more time for bad behavior. I will pull out a jar of peanut butter and bread, give you 10 minutes to eat your sandwich, then send you to your room to act out by yourself. I don't have TIME for this when I'm preparing for a trip and found out that I ran over a bunch of screws and have a flat tire so I need to go get all my tires inspected to ensure safe travels. Not that I needed to explain THAT either.

 

RAD moms need only respond to this one. The rest of you will NOT understand.

 

And if anyone has a problem with this: I DON'T CARE TO HEAR ABOUT IT.

 

Thanks!!!

 

I honestly mean this in the nicest possible way..but you did ask for input on this, as to whether or not you overreacted. It stands to reason that when you post information, people will give you feedback. I guess that I don't understand asking for feedback and getting over the top defensive about the answers.

 

It isn't about fruit. It's about laying the framework that giving food is a reward and taking away is punishment. I'm sorry but I've seen too many girls end up with eating disorders that had similar punishments. I'm only talking about your older child. I'm not a RAD mom and I'm not really going to even talk about that. Just that there does seem to be a pattern with food.

 

I would just say to maybe cool off a bit and realize that this isn't an attack, none of what is said. Sometimes we don't see what we are doing. As the mom of a daughter with PCOS and insulin resistance, I've had to work really hard to keep DD healthy and not give her weight issues. If you know about PCOS and insulin resistance is that it causes almost superhuman physical needs and cravings for carbs, sugar, etc. It was rough for a long time trying to balance that and not restricting and making it a power issue.

 

It can help to have others point out these patterns to you. I know that it has been helpful to me in the past.

Edited June 4, 2011 by YLVD
more info needed

[jewellsmommy]

I don't understand the "don't set them up to lie" idea. I think that practice answering hard questions truthfully even if the answer gets a little one in trouble is very, very important. Talk about major life lessons. Always going out of your way to avoid the wrong questions seems to ignore the issue that a child is lying. You don't change your behavior to skirt the problem, you try again and teach your child not to lie when questioned.

 

 

:iagree: The rest of the world will not cater to their weakness.

 

Ds has a serious problem with being truthful. I do "prep" him for truth as part of his re-training. When I have to ask a question like the op's, I remind him that breaking a rule receives a consequence but lying always get one worse. I will then tell him that he has 1 chance to tell the truth. Then I ask the question. I don't usually know 100% the answer before asking but I can tell once he answers. I can read him like a book. :D We never let lies go. And having a list of consequences beforehand does help.

 

I also say that punishment for one does not mean punishment for all. Just because you can't have candy does not mean that I can't. In fact, it is not much of a punishment otherwise :D. Even if I didn't want candy, I would bring at least one piece to eat just to get my point across.

 

To the op: I understand the attachment issues.I have had to discipline ds in ways I never had to discipline dd :001_huh:. It is HARD and you do the best you can :001_smile:.

[texasmama]

I guess I just don't understand telling the OP that she needs to apologize to her dd, and that she overreacted by not allowing her candy because she snuck candy and then lied about it. I get not giving a punishment for a two year old, but if a child is clearly old enough to know better, then I have no idea what would be a more logical consequence than the one the OP doled out.

 

I never told her to apologize to her dd. I only gave my own experience about what I do when I feel that I have overreacted. I never stated that the OP overreacted. Ultimately, that is for her to decide. I'm not sure how you have drawn your conclusion that I asked her to apologize to her dd. Go back and read my original post if you are still confused about my feedback to the OP.

[EthiopianFood]

I never told her to apologize to her dd. I only gave my own experience about what I do when I feel that I have overreacted. I never stated that the OP overreacted. Ultimately, that is for her to decide. I'm not sure how you have drawn your conclusion that I asked her to apologize to her dd. Go back and read my original post if you are still confused about my feedback to the OP.

 

The other poster did tell her to apologize. I lumped you two together to save time. :)

[texasmama]

The other poster did tell her to apologize. I lumped you two together to save time. :)

 

Thank you for clarifying.:001_smile:

[kolamum]

Have you considered removing all sugar from her diet? There are ways to have sweet treats without having sugar. If sweets are a downfall for her they could be part of the problem. I've noticed that with one of my own children. Sugar can set off a lot of bad stuff for the child, so we simply don't permit it. We do still have treats {cookies, cakes, etc} but none are made with any form of cane sugar.

[Denisemomof4]

Denise, you did start this thread saying you don't think you over reacted but asked for our opinions anyway, as to whether we thought you did. It seemed you wanted some other perspectives but you kind of had your mind made up already.

 

You then dismissed pretty much all the opinions where people said they felt you did over react, or they would have handled it differently. We only had what you wrote to go on, and from what you wrote it did sound like you reacted out of an angry and upset place, and many of us would have handled the situation differently from you, or would have liked to, anyway, even if we can relate to your situation.

 

I just feel the way you responded to many posts here seems to me that you dont really appreciate the opinions people have, even though you said you did. I dont think anyone meant anything bad or judged you as a bad mother or attacked you or unreasonably took what you said out of perspective, even though they might not have taken what you wrote the way you intended it.

 

I truly would not make such a fuss out of it- and I would drop it quickly, and I do not have such a big load around the "lying" that you do. I encourage my kids to tell the truth, I don't focus so much on the lying. But that's me.

 

But you did ask, and we did offer, from our own perspective, given what you wrote and how we naturally responded from our own experience and what it seemed you were saying. I guess I didn't feel I was received graciously, or that other people were received graciously, even if you didn't agree with us. We don't have to agree- you feel you responded just fine, you didn't over react- but you did ask what we thought. We have all been in similar situations and have to evaluate our parenting strategies repeatedly.

 

I guess it takes a certain thick skin to handle responses here sometimes, but I really think if you ask such a question its good to be able to handle a different opinion or perspective than your own. I really don't think anyone was heavily judging you, although if you are feeling a certain way I know it might feel that way. Kindness was meant, opinions were offered with good intention, and I feel you maybe took our responses too personally. I am not sure. No harm was meant, in any case.

 

I just want to clarify, AGAIN, that yes, I did make my mind up, but that was only AFTER I had several hours to think things through on my own and with the help of the hive. And it was some responses from the hive that made me feel certain I made the right decision, while some others helped me to see other things I hadn't considered. But as far as the consequence to the lie, once I had time to clear my head and calm down, preparing for my trip, checking back here a few times, only then was I certain my decision was right. I didn't dismiss everyone else's input, I took tidbits which really struck me, threw others away, just as everyone else here does. I make no apologies to that.

 

To the bolded part above, I went through and made many responses because not only did I think some responses were ridiculous and spiteful, I got PM's from people saying the same. I'm not one to come here and attack people, but this time I felt like bucking back for once. I am very sad to see what appears to be too many attacking posts, sad to see the direction too many are taking. Others feel it, too. I stood up and I don't feel bad about it.

 

Too many people read into the situation and posted from their erroneous views of my scenario. I felt I needed to speak up to that.

 

And to the red above, I was not the only one who took offense to some posts, others have too and they have contacted me to offer support. There is more than just a few people who see this in this thread. There's something to be said for that.

 

I truly did come here for answers. Some of the answers, and time to help me process, GAVE me the answers. But if they are not in agreement with some, that's taken as I had my mind made up? Well, sorry. I disagree. There were MANY posters who supported what I did.

 

Like I said in one of my responses, I rarely EVER dish out a consequence without it making ME feel bad. I have terrible guilt over it but know it's a necessary part of parenting.

[Denisemomof4]

I guess I just don't understand telling the OP that she needs to apologize to her dd, and that she overreacted by not allowing her candy because she snuck candy and then lied about it. I get not giving a punishment for a two year old, but if a child is clearly old enough to know better, then I have no idea what would be a more logical consequence than the one the OP doled out.

 

And you are one of those people who confirmed what I was doing was right, even though I felt really bad doing it.

[Denisemomof4]

Have you considered removing all sugar from her diet? There are ways to have sweet treats without having sugar. If sweets are a downfall for her they could be part of the problem. I've noticed that with one of my own children. Sugar can set off a lot of bad stuff for the child, so we simply don't permit it. We do still have treats {cookies, cakes, etc} but none are made with any form of cane sugar.

 

we RARELY have anything with sugar in it. This was a special treat for a special four day trip away for just the two of us. If I'm going to allow sugar for dd11, it's normally Ben and Jerry's ice cream so she can have LOTS of fat with it. She's so skinny!

[simka2]

If this was me and I realized I over reacted (meaning I did not control my own behavior) I would be apologizing to my dd and wiping the slate completely clear. As the mom I will not hold my child to a standard of self control that I won't hold myself to. She chose not to control herself, you did the same. Now all that remains is for you to demonstrate how you behave after you lose control.

 

After that we will come up with a plan for how we handle lying in the future, but yes my kid would get a "do over" on this, because I want a "do over" on how I reacted.

Edited June 5, 2011 by simka2