Daughter's graduation will take 3 hours tonight. WWYD?

[Cindy in C-ville]

Our second daughter is getting her Associate's Degree from our local comm. college. Tonight. The plan has been for everyone to go and then we would take her out to dinner. She mentioned today that it would take three hours. I thought, "No way." So, I called to check and they said, "Yes ma'am!"

 

It starts at 6:00.

 

So, given the ages of my children, WWYD? To me this is such a milestone and we want the whole family to be there, but to have the youngers sit through three hours to hear their sister's name called may border on "exasperating your children."

 

What do you think?

[Parrothead]

I don't know your kids, but my 11 year old can (and has) sat through 3 hours of boredom with a book and an electronic (on mute) game in hand.

 

If they expect their sister to attend their big moments they should go.

[Jean in Newcastle]

How close is the community college to your home? Could you and your husband go to the graduation and then swing by your home to pick up the others on your way to dinner?

 

My 8 year old (at the time) went to a graduation about that length last year and then dinner and survived. I don't know that she enjoyed it, but she survived! (She did a lot of people watching).

[gingersmom]

I send my kids with nintendo ds, a book to read, ipod touch to play on, ipad (if you have one). And most importantly snacks and a drink.

[Melinda in VT]

I can imagine just this scenario in a few years, as I have a 10-year gap between oldest and youngest.

 

To be honest, this might be one time I make an exception to my no-electronics-at-events rule. Do they have an electronic game they could unobtrusively play during the reading of the names (with the sound turned off)? Or maybe let them bring a book to read for part of the time?

 

I'd eat dinner before so no one is hungry, and go out for dessert after.

[Old Dominion Heather]

I'd take them, but let them take toys and snacks and move around a bit, maybe get down on the floor and play. In anything that long, there is going to be some movement in the crowd. You and their dad can take turns taking them for a bit of a walk around. Honestly, I'd take a book for myself!

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I would eat an early dinner and maybe do dessert or something afterward. I know my DS would be unbearable if he had to sit through a 3 hour ceremony on an empty stomach.

 

Your children are old enough to sit through it. I would let them take something to entertain them during the roll call/degree confirmation. I think they should pay as much attention as they can to the speakers; I think it would be rude to be doing something else during that time.

 

Just my .02.

[MindyD]

Forget the kids, I'D be bringing my nook for myself! I agree with everyone else: books, electronic games on mute, snacks and drinks. I hate long graduations. I like it better when the school breaks it up into smaller groups (science degrees one day, arts degrees the next).

[Cindy in C-ville]

Boy, y'all are quick! We'll feed them an early dinner, take books, snacks, iphone, etc., plan on going for walks when necessary, and then go out afterwards. I will be shocked if #7 doesn't have a meltdown. We will have two vehicles, so if oldest dd needs to drive home a few, put them to bed, and then join us for dinner, we can do that.

 

The lady on the phone said, "Well, honey, there are 352 graduates." I knew there were a lot, but I just hadn't put two-and-two together.

 

Any other thoughts?

[abbeyej]

I'm actually *shocked* people are recommending electronic games. I'd consider that incredibly rude. I would also not expect to pull out snacks during the ceremony unless it's an outdoor venue. Small books or notebook and pencil would seem appropriate to me only because it's so very long. ...

 

Really, I think most kids *can* sit through an event of that length and *should* have the practice to do so on occasion. So it's not thrilling. They'll survive. (And I'd sure promise some good treats for afterwards!) ;)

[momtotkbb]

My 7 yo adhd - wiggly boy just sat his big brother graduation at a much larger event than what you are mentioning and did fine. Granted it was at 9:30 in the morning and not at night - but night would have been even better for us since we're not early morning people. We did allow him to take his DS - he only used it a few minutes on mute as he was too busy taking it all in. Of course the ceremony was in the arena where they play basketball so he loved watching the big screen above the floor. I took a notebook for him to write and draw in - but again he was more interested in reading the ceremony program, finding his big brother, trying to take pictures, etc. We all went out to eat afterwards. For what it's worth he sat through big brothers large high school graduation in a similar venue w/ over 400 graduating 5 years ago and was good with that too - we just took color books, etc. and held him to our expectations. For that one - he did get to get up to walk and have a potty break though. He thought going out to eat at 10pm was too cool:)

[LittleIzumi]

Reason 398 why I didn't "walk" for my degree (with the nursling, sensory-issues 3-year-old, and ADD 5-year-old).

[Aubrey]

When my sis & dh graduated, we had a 3yo & 1yo. My ils were there in one spot, dad & grmother in another, & my mom...she might have been w/ ils. My point, though, is that one of the ways we kept them busy was passing them around.

 

When that was too much, I'd "walk" one of them & deposit him/her w/ other set of family. But that's only 2 kids, & I don't remember that one being 3hrs long. :svengo:

[Murphy101]

:confused: A typical 9 year old and older should not have a problem. We would all go.

[Night Elf]

I recently attended my sister's graduation from a community college. That one was nearly 3 hours long. There were many younger children there and I didn't see many with electronics. I didn't see any episodes of out of control children. I did see some adults walking little kids out of the auditorium occasionally.

[regentrude]

If your youngest is 9, I would see no problem- a 9 y/o can sit through an event like this. Tell him to bring a book in case he gets bored.

[LittleIzumi]

If your youngest is 9, I would see no problem- a 9 y/o can sit through an event like this. Tell him to bring a book in case he gets bored.

 

:iagree: I didn't see the ages before. Notebook & paper if anything--it'll look like they're taking notes. :001_smile:

[Cindy in C-ville]

Really, I think most kids *can* sit through an event of that length and *should* have the practice to do so on occasion. So it's not thrilling. They'll survive. (And I'd sure promise some good treats for afterwards!) ;)

 

Really? From 6:30 to 9:30 in the evening? We won't do anything electronic in the auditorium, but I think that having them go out in the lobby after their sister's name is called would be fine. And, if they want to sit with me and look at books/draw, I think that's fine.

[Abigail4476]

9 years and up? They don't need endless snacks and entertainment like toddlers, IMO. A good book to read or a sketch pad should work just fine. And a nice lesson in how to sit still and be polite. :001_smile:

 

I wouldn't object to my ds8 taking his Nintendo DS as long as the sound was turned off.

[Cindy in C-ville]

Three hours, in the middle of the day, would be challenging, but I would have no qualms asking them to "rise to the occasion" with only paper/pencil, etc. But ... at night, it just seems a bit too much.

 

And our 9yo (actually just turned 10 but I haven't changed my sig line) definitely can't hang without some help. She's been with us for 1 1/2, but we're still working on stuff that the others were doing long before this age - sitting still, being quiet, coping with an uncomfortable situation, etc. I can't tell you the concerts, plays, etc., that I have ended up leaving early, out with her in the car, etc. Her ability to graciously support her siblings in their various endeavors and achievements has increased, but I think 3 hours WAY past bedtime is going to push her over unless I have some serious tricks up my sleeve.

[LidiyaDawn]

I'm actually *shocked* people are recommending electronic games. I'd consider that incredibly rude. I would also not expect to pull out snacks during the ceremony unless it's an outdoor venue. Small books or notebook and pencil would seem appropriate to me only because it's so very long. …

 

 

 

What's the difference between a (silent - sound turned OFF) electronic game held in the hand and a book or notebook & pencil? They're about the same size, they're held in the lap, they make no sounds….. I don't see how one of them is "incredibly rude" and the other is fine.

 

 

In all honesty, I'd find it difficult to sit through 3 hours of graduation stuff myself! :p

[Murphy101]

Really? From 6:30 to 9:30 in the evening? We won't do anything electronic in the auditorium, but I think that having them go out in the lobby after their sister's name is called would be fine. And, if they want to sit with me and look at books/draw, I think that's fine.

 

Yes. Really. I didn't even understand the question at first.

 

Of course they are your kids and what you think is fine is fine.

 

But I wouldn't take anything at all for my kids those ages and wouldn't foresee a problem.

[Cindy in C-ville]

Very rarely (if ever?) have I felt like "bad mom" on here. But, I'm kind of getting that vibe.

[abbeyej]

Really? From 6:30 to 9:30 in the evening?

 

Absolutely. I wouldn't pretend it would be "fun", lol. I'd be quite honest going into it, "Look kiddos, this is important. It may be boring and tough, but I have faith in your ability to put up with it and be well-behaved. I'm grateful that you guys are able to do this for your sister. ... And I'm really looking forward to the ice cream sundaes at IHOP afterward!" (Or, you know, whatever family celebration you have in store, lol...)

 

6:30-9:30pm doesn't really throw me either. In fact, I think it would be easier for my kids in the early evening than it would be during the day, when they'd rather be outside running around.

 

If we were talking about 3-5 year olds, that would be different. I'd probably plan to sit by the door and sneak out as necessary. Or I'd get them a babysitter. But for 9-12yos?!? I'd expect them to sit and be polite.

[H.S. Burrow]

9 years and up? They don't need endless snacks and entertainment like toddlers, IMO. A good book to read or a sketch pad should work just fine. And a nice lesson in how to sit still and be polite. :001_smile:

 

I wouldn't object to my ds8 taking his Nintendo DS as long as the sound was turned off.

 

 

:iagree: When my DH received his BS in 1996, our 2 yo attended. We had some dry cheerios, water, a couple of board books, and the grandparents.

 

She survived just fine. :)

 

When he received his MBA in 2006, the kids were 7 & 11. They were not allowed to bring in anything other than a book....and were expected to put that away once the ceremony began.

 

Not picking on anyone in particular, but there are things in life that are boring. I think if we teach our kids that we must be occupied during all events, we do our children a disservice.

 

We also teach them the event is not worthy of our attention.

[LidiyaDawn]

Very rarely (if ever?) have I felt like "bad mom" on here. But, I'm kind of getting that vibe.

 

You're not a "bad mom" at all. Like I mentioned above, I'd find it a challenge to sit through three hours of graduation ceremonies and I'm an adult - not a young kid, and ESPECIALLY not a young girl who (I see from your blog and previous posts) is an adopted child who may have some extra challenges in play here.

 

Do what's best for YOUR family. :grouphug:

[AK_Mom4]

Three hours, in the middle of the day, would be challenging, but I would have no qualms asking them to "rise to the occasion" with only paper/pencil, etc. But ... at night, it just seems a bit too much.

 

And our 9yo (actually just turned 10 but I haven't changed my sig line) definitely can't hang without some help. She's been with us for 1 1/2, but we're still working on stuff that the others were doing long before this age - sitting still, being quiet, coping with an uncomfortable situation, etc. I can't tell you the concerts, plays, etc., that I have ended up leaving early, out with her in the car, etc. Her ability to graciously support her siblings in their various endeavors and achievements has increased, but I think 3 hours WAY past bedtime is going to push her over unless I have some serious tricks up my sleeve.

 

I would guess many responders don't know the "Katya" story (which I have LOVED following along here, btw) and are just looking at the age. Sounds like you have it under control. I would absolutely bring a bag of entertainment to help her get thru the time, wait in the lobby with her, and maybe even encourage an afternoon nap (I know, wishful thinking!).

 

With a 3-hour ceremony, there will be natural breaks between events (until the enormous name-reading) and it's perfectly fine to take advantage of those. My only advice is to get seats on the aisle if you can to make coming/going easier.

[abbeyej]

Very rarely (if ever?) have I felt like "bad mom" on here. But, I'm kind of getting that vibe.

 

I really don't think any of us intended it that way. I certainly didn't. I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

 

I just don't think it'll be that big a deal. Sure, it won't be fun. But they can do it. And it'll be fine.

[abbeyej]

...

And our 9yo (actually just turned 10 but I haven't changed my sig line) definitely can't hang without some help. She's been with us for 1 1/2, but we're still working on stuff that the others were doing long before this age - sitting still, being quiet, coping with an uncomfortable situation, etc. I can't tell you the concerts, plays, etc., that I have ended up leaving early, out with her in the car, etc. Her ability to graciously support her siblings in their various endeavors and achievements has increased, but I think 3 hours WAY past bedtime is going to push her over unless I have some serious tricks up my sleeve.

 

Yes, Katya's history certainly changes things. In your first post you directed us to their *ages*. Based on that alone, I'd expect them to be able to function. ... Given her history, you may know that that's implausible.

 

In that case, I'd sit near an exit and plan to slip out with her if necessary.

[Remudamom]

I think it sounds like a nightmare. What does your dd say? Mine dd has got a grad. coming up, and if we had any that young I bet she'd say it didn't matter at all whether or not they came.

 

If this is just a show of support.........come on, I bet she knows they support her. Why torture them to prove it?

 

Ask the kids what they want to do. Ask dd. Let them decide as much as they can.

 

I'm telling you truthfully I'd have a stinkin awful time sitting still that long. This old body needs to move a bit.

[LittleIzumi]

Yes, Katya's history certainly changes things. In your first post you directed us to their *ages*. Based on that alone, I'd expect them to be able to function. ... Given her history, you may know that that's implausible.

 

In that case, I'd sit near an exit and plan to slip out with her if necessary.

:iagree:

[RanchGirl]

I would not have a problem with them playing with a small electronic game for part of the time, reading the rest of the time, and cheering for the graduate. Maybe a small quiet snack at the halfway point. Just get the end of an aisle so they're not right next to a stranger. And offer a great bribe for great behavior - ice cream sundaes or whatever will work best.

 

Honestly, hours would be too long for me to sit without a book! I would pay attention during the speeches but probably zone out for about 350 of those 352 names being called.

[Murphy101]

Very rarely (if ever?) have I felt like "bad mom" on here. But, I'm kind of getting that vibe.

 

No. I specificly said a "typical" child. If your dd is not typical, then that certainly changes things. I also specificly said they are your kids, so do what you think is fine.

 

The original post was asking what we would do based on your kids ages.

 

Several posted exactly what WE would do with OUR children those ages.:)

 

I'm not sure why you asked if you already knew what you wanted to do and are now offended that everyone wouldn't do the same?:confused:

Edited May 13, 2011 by Martha

[UnsinkableKristen]

Well, I don't think you're a bad mom at all.

 

A graduation ceremony is horribly boring even for most full grown adults, I don't care how much you love and are proud of the graduate. The speeches may be nice, but the actual reading of the bazillion names??? Zzzzzzzzzz....

 

Take some snacks and the other things you mentioned and don't worry another second over it :D

[Abigail4476]

Very rarely (if ever?) have I felt like "bad mom" on here. But, I'm kind of getting that vibe.

 

I'm sorry...not my intent at all. :001_smile: You asked, I answered. We've always been pretty strict with our kids in regard to behavior at *adult* events and have expected quite a bit of them--from a very young age. I feel that we're reasonable, but some might disagree. :lol:

 

...ESPECIALLY not a young girl who (I see from your blog and previous posts) is an adopted child who may have some extra challenges in play here.

 

Do what's best for YOUR family. :grouphug:

 

I would guess many responders don't know the "Katya" story (which I have LOVED following along here, btw) and are just looking at the age. ...

 

This is what was said:

 

...So, given the ages of my children, WWYD?....

 

If there was more to the story, OP probably should have shared that in the first post so people don't come off looking terribly snarky without meaning to. :tongue_smilie: Extenuating circumstances matter, and of course, OP always has the right and obligation to do what best suits her family--no matter what anyone else thinks. Normally, I would expect any 9 year old in this family to sit still and mind their manners with a bathroom break somewhere in the middle. Unless I'm aware of certain challenges, I'm quite likely to pass those expectations on to other unsuspecting 9 year olds. :)

[Mommy22alyns]

I'm actually *shocked* people are recommending electronic games. I'd consider that incredibly rude. I would also not expect to pull out snacks during the ceremony unless it's an outdoor venue. Small books or notebook and pencil would seem appropriate to me only because it's so very long. ...

 

Really, I think most kids *can* sit through an event of that length and *should* have the practice to do so on occasion. So it's not thrilling. They'll survive. (And I'd sure promise some good treats for afterwards!) ;)

 

 

:iagree: I completely agree. Even your youngest is old enough to sit through it without complaining, IMO. It's time to learn.

[Jenny in Florida]

Absolutely. I wouldn't pretend it would be "fun", lol. I'd be quite honest going into it, "Look kiddos, this is important. It may be boring and tough, but I have faith in your ability to put up with it and be well-behaved. I'm grateful that you guys are able to do this for your sister. ... And I'm really looking forward to the ice cream sundaes at IHOP afterward!" (Or, you know, whatever family celebration you have in store, lol...)

 

6:30-9:30pm doesn't really throw me either. In fact, I think it would be easier for my kids in the early evening than it would be during the day, when they'd rather be outside running around.

 

If we were talking about 3-5 year olds, that would be different. I'd probably plan to sit by the door and sneak out as necessary. Or I'd get them a babysitter. But for 9-12yos?!? I'd expect them to sit and be polite.

 

I'm going to have to agree.

 

And for what it's worth, I hate seeing kids playing on electronic devices during events (or walking around at the grocery store or whatever). But I have allowed my son to take a book occasionally when I think it won't be distracting or offensive to other audience (or congregation) members.

[meggie]

You aren't a bad mom. If you feel like she needs something extra, go ahead and bring it. If it were me, I'd bring some stuff in my purse or bag, but not tell her that I'd brought stuff to entertain her. See how long she could go without it. Then when she hits her limit, give her something (notebook and pencil, a book) and see how long she could go with that. Then when that's too boring, pull something else out (snacks, water bottle, stickers, electronic game) and see how long she could last with that. I don't know her history, so I have no idea how well that would work; if you don't think it will work, don't do it. But I know even for me, I have a hard time sitting still through graduations. They are pretty boring.

[AnitaMcC]

We had similar situation when my niece graduated college a few years ago. We raised her from age 11 so she is a daughter to us.

 

Youngest Ds was 8 at the time, then the next one was 10 and the twins were 14.

 

Add in that the youngest two had their 1st Communion that morning and it was a one hour drive to the graduation location. Finished Communion around 3pm and the graduation started at 6pm.

 

We went... but Dh and I took turns taking the younger two out to work off some of the squirmies (we sat where it was more convenient for us to do so) and we brought things with us for the younger two to occupy their hands and minds for a little bit. Youngest Ds loves doing Dot-to-Dots and mazes so we brought a book full of them with colored pencils and crayons (the twistable kind). We texted back and forth to each other with niece, nephews, and friends to entertain us also... LOL.

[Amy in NH]

Have them bring something quiet to do. They're old enough to sit through it.

[katilac]

I think a typical kid of school age should be able to suffer through it. If some quiet snacks (they need to be quiet to open and quiet to eat) and a coloring book would get a kid with special challenges through it, I'd consider that. I'd also think about saving a seat for her and having someone bring her in later, if she could handle the late bedtime.

 

Someone asked why electronics on mute are ruder than paper and pencil. Personally, I find the glow of the screen and the click-clacking of the keys very noticeable and distracting. I personally don't let my kids bring any of those items to a formal ceremony, but if someone else allows it, I do think that paper and colors is much less distracting to fellow guests.

 

And adults? I'm amazed that any grown person would read or play games during a graduation! Goodness, if you're going to read, why not just stay home? What's the point of going if you aren't planning to pay attention? Plus, the valedictorian and keynote speaker CAN see if they are speaking to an ocean of ipads and smartphones.

[Cindy in C-ville]

Yes, Katya's history certainly changes things. In your first post you directed us to their *ages*. Based on that alone, I'd expect them to be able to function. ... Given her history, you may know that that's implausible.

 

In that case, I'd sit near an exit and plan to slip out with her if necessary.

 

You, and others, are right. I didn't think to bring up Katya's history, but that definitely plays into how we handle it. Not to mention that she had a positive strep test a couple of days ago and is on antibiotics. Perhaps the most loving thing would have been to give her the "sick card" and get a sitter for her and take the others, but I just didn't think about it until I discovered today that it will be three hours long. And, we are a family that sits in church together, goes to each others' events, etc. So ... we'll make the best of it and emphasize how significant this is and how special it is that we can all be there for Grace.

[Jenny in Florida]

ISomeone asked why electronics on mute are ruder than paper and pencil. Personally, I find the glow of the screen and the click-clacking of the keys very noticeable and distracting.

 

Me, too.

 

I was at the opera a week or so ago, and the man in the row behind me kept opening his cell phone. I was almost irritated enough to say something to him (which, if you knew me, would give you a sense of just how irritating it was!).

[Pretty in Pink]

I hope that you guys enjoy the graduation. I am sure that your children will do well. It sounds like you have a good plan in place.

[MindyD]

I've read a few more of the posts and so I'll add this to what I said in the beginning. It's not that the kids can't sit through this, but I just don't see anything wrong with letting kids bring something quiet to do. I don't think it's rude at all if the child is being quiet and not disturbing others. A 3 hour graduation at night is a long time to sit and listen quietly. And if you're okay with letting kids bring a book or paper and pencil, then why is an electronic game on mute any different?

Just do what will work for your family. If it's really important that the kids sit and listen the entire time, then make them to do. If you don't mind them having a quiet distraction, let them do that instead.

[AnitaMcC]

I'm actually *shocked* people are recommending electronic games. I'd consider that incredibly rude. I would also not expect to pull out snacks during the ceremony unless it's an outdoor venue. Small books or notebook and pencil would seem appropriate to me only because it's so very long. ...

 

Really, I think most kids *can* sit through an event of that length and *should* have the practice to do so on occasion. So it's not thrilling. They'll survive. (And I'd sure promise some good treats for afterwards!) ;)

 

 

Well, I myself hate graduations/promotions. I have suffered through a few for myself and I hated them. When I graduated college I didn't even consider going... especially since I would have had to pay a fee. Figured I had better use for that money elsewhere.

 

My younger nephew refused to go to his high school graduation.

 

My twins refused to go to their 8th grade promotion.

 

My niece wanted to attend her college graduation so we went to celebrate with her. Later she said that she wished she had not attended. A few of the speakers were good and even my youngest laughed a bit at the "jokes". Of the three hours, two hours of it was so boring. The most fun was all the texting going on... graduates and guests. I had wished I had taken a book to read!!!!!

 

In all, we rather do a private ceremony with family and close friends only. We really don't need to have a thousand or more of people to witness the accomplishment of graduation.

[AnitaMcC]

Very rarely (if ever?) have I felt like "bad mom" on here. But, I'm kind of getting that vibe.

 

Nope you are not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I am with you. I absolutely would have a difficult time sitting still through a 3+ hour graduation and no way expect my kids to attend.

 

I don't sit through anything that last 3+ hours like a graduation very often... maybe once every 4-5 years so no way would my kids get the chance to "practice" sitting still like that. Mass that last an hour and 15 minutes is hard enough for them and that is usually interactive to some extent.

 

I see nothing wrong in allowing a child to bring things like a GameBoy, book, crayons, etc to help keep them calm and quiet as much as possible. If I didn't then I know my Ds#3 would get very squirmy and upset and start to whine, hum, rock, crawl around, etc. He is getting better about it and does make it longer before he starts to loose control, but still, I can't think of any other situation we would be attending something that lasts sooooooo long and is sooooooo boring (for me and definitely for kids).

[AnitaMcC]

With a 3-hour ceremony, there will be natural breaks between events (until the enormous name-reading) and it's perfectly fine to take advantage of those. My only advice is to get seats on the aisle if you can to make coming/going easier.

 

 

What breaks? My niece's university graduation didn't have any breaks. One speaker after another, and straight into awards, and then reading of names. Only music played was the procession of graduates entering venue and leaving. And this was at a public university. Thankfully they did break up graduates into four different ceremonies based on the "college".

Edited May 13, 2011 by AnitaMcC

[Teachin'Mine]

Very rarely (if ever?) have I felt like "bad mom" on here. But, I'm kind of getting that vibe.

 

:grouphug: No!!! You're being realistic. People seem to be missing that she's been with you for only 1.5 years. It sounds like you're doing awesome!!! Kids are individuals and a good mom knows her kids and does what she needs to do to help them. I hope it's a wonderful graduation. :)

[Mom0012]

I don't think you're a bad mom. I would definitely take books and drawing pads, puzzle books. I probably wouldn't feel comfortable with electronics, but it doesn't sound like you do either. Though, honestly, if I had a special needs child and that's what I needed to do, I'd do it.

 

A funny:

Last year, my daughter's ballet recital was 2 hours long. My sister came with my niece and nephews and my son was there as well. My son was 10 and my oldest nephew was 8. All the kids were very good throughout the entire performance. Surprisingly well behaved considering both my niece and nephew have ADHD and my son hates to sit through performance of any kind (but especially ballet) AND this was on a Sunday night.

 

When it finally was over, my son and nephew both immediately leaped to their feet, spontaneously grabbed each other and hugged while jumping up and down and yelling, "It's over! We made it!". :lol::lol: I don't think I will ever remember the sheer joy of that moment for them without laughing.

 

And that was only a 2 hour performance.

 

Lisa