Can someone please explain this point of view to me?

[mazakaal]

I've seen a few posts from people regarding the death of Bin Laden that indicate that they feel that it was wrong, morally reprehensible, similar to the acts of terrorism that he initiated. I really don't want this to turn ugly, but I don't understand that point of view. He was a murderer. He needed to be stopped. It would have been great if he could have been brought to trial, but since that couldn't happen, US troops had to take this other route. Could the US have really just ignored him and let him carry on? If there was a serial killer in your neighborhood, would you just leave him alone because even if you took him out, another would folllow behind and take his place? If that serial killer was hiding away in a compound, planning other murders, instructing others to carry out his plans, and you couldn't get in to arrest him, should authorities just leave him there or should they storm the compound in the hopes of capturing him? Why shouldn't people be rejoicing that our world is just a little bit safer today, that justice has been served for the families of thousands of innocent people who died?

 

If you really think that the actions of the US military were wrong, could you please explain why. I just don't understand that point of view, but I'd really like to. Honestly, I'm not trying to pick a fight. I really want to know what the better option would have been.

[Mrs Mungo]

He was a terrorist, we are at war. That makes killing him legal under US and international law as long as it was the military who did the killing, not the CIA.

 

The US protects its people from a lot of harsh realities. Do you know part of the intent of the Roman circus was to keep the people's edge, so that they did not get all soft from their cushy city lives?

[mazakaal]

I totally agree with you. I'm trying to figure out the opposing viewpoint.

[Carol in Cal.]

There is a difference between execution and murder, but not everyone sees it.

[jujsky]

I guess for me, I have a difficult time celebrating the death of anyone. Did he deserve to die? Yes. Did our military do the right thing? Absolutely. I can't bring myself to celebrate and rejoice that another person is dead. I feel a sense of relief in this necessary action, but no joy.

[forty-two]

I guess for me, I have a difficult time celebrating the death of anyone. Did he deserve to die? Yes. Did our military do the right thing? Absolutely. I can't bring myself to celebrate and rejoice that another person is dead. I feel a sense of relief in this necessary action, but no joy.

I'm kind of here, too. I'm glad an evildoer, through legitimate means, is no longer able to hurt people, but I'm sad that it was necessary in the first place.

[mazakaal]

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for sharing your point of view.

[akmommy]

I guess for me, I have a difficult time celebrating the death of anyone. Did he deserve to die? Yes. Did our military do the right thing? Absolutely. I can't bring myself to celebrate and rejoice that another person is dead. I feel a sense of relief in this necessary action, but no joy.

 

:iagree: this exactly

[MindyD]

I guess for me, I have a difficult time celebrating the death of anyone. Did he deserve to die? Yes. Did our military do the right thing? Absolutely. I can't bring myself to celebrate and rejoice that another person is dead. I feel a sense of relief in this necessary action, but no joy.

 

 

I agree completely.

[twoforjoy]

I'm in the camp of thinking that his death was probably necessary, but that the killing of any human being is not something we should ever celebrate. It is, at best, a regrettable necessity like, as I mentioned in another thread, putting down an attack dog. But it seems like it should be a time for solemnity to me, not a time for dancing and joyful shouting.

[Janie Grace]

I'm in the camp of thinking that his death was probably necessary, but that the killing of any human being is not something we should ever celebrate. It is, at best, a regrettable necessity like, as I mentioned in another thread, putting down an attack dog. But it seems like it should be a time for solemnity to me, not a time for dancing and joyful shouting.

 

I agree. Well put.

[Anita in NC]

I guess for me, I have a difficult time celebrating the death of anyone. Did he deserve to die? Yes. Did our military do the right thing? Absolutely. I can't bring myself to celebrate and rejoice that another person is dead. I feel a sense of relief in this necessary action, but no joy.

 

:iagree:

 

You know I'm actually having a hard time with the hateful comments that friends and family are making on facebook. Isn't it these hateful attitudes that got us here in the first place. They hate us, we hate them - let's all kill each other. I just see all this hate perpetuating the problem.

 

It's not so much that Osama has been killed, because I agree the poster above, but the gleeful celebration and whooping it up that I am seeing.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Anita in NC
spelling

[mom2scouts]

I guess for me, I have a difficult time celebrating the death of anyone. Did he deserve to die? Yes. Did our military do the right thing? Absolutely. I can't bring myself to celebrate and rejoice that another person is dead. I feel a sense of relief in this necessary action, but no joy.

:iagree:

[kchara]

I agree with all of the PPs, this was a necessary evil, as is all executions. It's a solemn moment, not one for a party.

[Haiku]

I'm in the camp of thinking that his death was probably necessary, but that the killing of any human being is not something we should ever celebrate. It is, at best, a regrettable necessity like, as I mentioned in another thread, putting down an attack dog. But it seems like it should be a time for solemnity to me, not a time for dancing and joyful shouting.

 

:iagree:

 

My ds8 heard my dh telling me about this this morning (I was asleep when the news came on last night), and he said, "So it's good that he got killed?" I said to him, "It's never good when someone is killed. This man was responsible for many deaths, and something had to be done to stop him from causing more deaths. It's sad that he had to be killed to achieve that."

 

My ds responded, "Well, I guess it had to be done."

 

Tara

[Laura Corin]

What I have seen (I haven't read all the comments) are some people saying that we shouldn't be jubilant at his death, at any death. It wasn't an objection to the killing, but to the public reaction to it.

 

Laura

[asta]

I'm in the camp of thinking that his death was probably necessary, but that the killing of any human being is not something we should ever celebrate. It is, at best, a regrettable necessity like, as I mentioned in another thread, putting down an attack dog. But it seems like it should be a time for solemnity to me, not a time for dancing and joyful shouting.

 

This is what bothers me.

 

There was dancing by terrorists when our soldiers were dragged through the streets of Somalia.

 

There was rejoicing by terrorists when the USS Cole was blown up.

 

There was jubilation throughout the Muslim world when the twin towers were hit (we "had it coming" don't you know).

 

Al Qaida is a many headed Hydra. Cut off one head, and another pops up. Nothing has changed other than now a whole bunch of disparate little groups have a rallying cry of "avenge UBL's death by the infidels!" instead of the worn out, generic "kill the infidels" they were using.

 

UBL was a sick bastard who let others die in his name with the promise of virgins and paradise. Now he's fish food.

 

So, no, I'm not dancing in the streets. I'll eat a pork roast, drink some wine, and nod towards the rising sun (a direction he will never face in death), but I refuse to stoop to the level of revelry - lest I remotely resemble those who have filled themselves with joy at the deaths of US troops and contractors for the past, oh, twenty plus years?

 

UBL made so many families' lives a living hell. Now it's his turn, I suspect.

 

 

a

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

... I apparently missed a news flash ...

[Hunter's Moon]

I think too many people are seeing it as a black or white issue (not accusing anyone, just a generalization).

 

I know this was a necessary execution. I completely 100% get it and can wrap my mind completely around it.

 

What I can't get is how someone can go celebrate it. How does that make us any better than al-Qaeda after 9/11? I'm not saying anyone who celebrates it is a terrorist, please don't twist this. I'm saying the celebration of a death is sick and disturbing no matter who you are and no matter what right we might have had to kill him. It wasn't a right, but an obligation.

 

He was a sick and twisted man who got what was coming to him and I know that. But execution should never warrant a celebration. Sigh of relief? Sure. Parties? No.

 

So many people don't seem to realize he was a human being. He is more easily compared to a monster, yes, but he was a human being none the less. The fact that he went this far to warrant his death is sad and should be mourned. Not his death, but what he did to all those people and how he and others could find it okay.

 

Before I get any virtual tomatoes thrown at me, I'm ducking out

 

:leaving:

 

And regarding those who defend their celebrations because al-Qaeda celebrated after 9/11. (I'm not saying anyone on here has, but I've seen it all over Facebook and Yahoo) They are terrorists. The fact that human lives meant nothing to them is sad, pathetic, and sickening.

Edited May 2, 2011 by BeatleMania

[Impish]

This is what bothers me.

 

There was dancing by terrorists when our soldiers were dragged through the streets of Somalia.

 

There was rejoicing by terrorists when the USS Cole was blown up.

 

There was jubilation throughout the Muslim world when the twin towers were hit (we "had it coming" don't you know).

 

Al Qaida is a many headed Hydra. Cut off one head, and another pops up. Nothing has changed other than now a whole bunch of disparate little groups have a rallying cry of "avenge UBL's death by the infidels!" instead of the worn out, generic "kill the infidels" they were using.

 

UBL was a sick bastard who let others die in his name with the promise of virgins and paradise. Now he's fish food.

 

So, no, I'm not dancing in the streets. I'll eat a pork roast, drink some wine, and nod towards the rising sun (a direction he will never face in death), but I refuse to stoop to the level of revelry - lest I remotely resemble those who have filled themselves with joy at the deaths of US troops and contractors for the past, oh, twenty plus years?

 

UBL made so many families' lives a living hell. Now it's his turn, I suspect.

 

 

a

:iagree:

For me, I think its about the fact that nothing is going to actually improve or change for the better with his death. There are too many to step into his shoes. I don't see the men and women in the armed forces being any safer today than they were Saturday. I don't see war ending, I don't see peace happening.

 

I'm not saying his death was wrong, or shouldn't have happened.

 

I *wish* with all my heart it would make a positive difference...but I just don't see it.

[Hunter's Moon]

For me, I think its about the fact that nothing is going to actually improve or change for the better with his death. There are too many to step into his shoes. I don't see the men and women in the armed forces being any safer today than they were Saturday. I don't see war ending, I don't see peace happening.

 

I'm not saying his death was wrong, or shouldn't have happened.

 

I *wish* with all my heart it would make a positive difference...but I just don't see it.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Mrs Mungo]

Well, I wasn't one dancing in the street. I imagine after 10 years of hard war with little information going out to the American people, some people are happy that there is something like a victory.

[Carol in Cal.]

It's justice, not vengeance.

[melissel]

:iagree:

For me, I think its about the fact that nothing is going to actually improve or change for the better with his death. There are too many to step into his shoes. I don't see the men and women in the armed forces being any safer today than they were Saturday. I don't see war ending, I don't see peace happening.

 

I'm not saying his death was wrong, or shouldn't have happened.

 

I *wish* with all my heart it would make a positive difference...but I just don't see it.

 

I agree as well, particularly at the idea of celebration regarding his execution. I don't feel happy or horrified at his death, but I do fear the retaliation. Now he's a martyr (to terrorists, I mean).

[Hunter's Moon]

Well, I wasn't one dancing in the street. I imagine after 10 years of hard war with little information going out to the American people, some people are happy that there is something like a victory.

 

I can definitely see this side.

[Jenny in Florida]

I'm not sure why I'm even getting involved here. I know I won't change anyone's mind.

 

But you did ask.

 

I'm not sure I think it's morally reprehensible to have killed this man. However, I cannot comprehend the urge to celebrate.

 

He was a human being. And, while I understand and believe he was as evil as a human can be, all I feel is sadness that it had to come to this.

 

In other words, I mourn the person he might have been, rather than celebrating the death of the man he was.

 

What would I have done, instead? I have no clue. I just know that the untimely, violent death of any living being doesn't feel like party time to me.

[melissel]

Well, I wasn't one dancing in the street. I imagine after 10 years of hard war with little information going out to the American people, some people are happy that there is something like a victory.

 

I guess I don't see this as victory, really. Was his death the point of the war? Is it all over now, and pullout begins tomorrow?

[mazakaal]

Thank you, everyone, for your responses. And thanks for keeping it civil. And I do agree that people shouldn't be dancing around celebrating anyone's death. Being so far from the States, I'm not really sure of what's going on over there in the wake of yesterday's news. And I've only seen one fb post that I've felt had a sense of 'jubilation' over the news. I feel like it was a necessary thing, and am relieved that it is over, that he has been caught. Of course, I know that the whole situation is not over, but at least on piece has been taken out of the puzzle.

[TheAutumnOak]

I guess for me, I have a difficult time celebrating the death of anyone. Did he deserve to die? Yes. Did our military do the right thing? Absolutely. I can't bring myself to celebrate and rejoice that another person is dead. I feel a sense of relief in this necessary action, but no joy.

 

:iagree:

I have read a lot of posts here today and last night...I couldn't put into words what I wanted to say, but this is EXACTLY how I feel...

[Lady Florida.]

I guess for me, I have a difficult time celebrating the death of anyone. Did he deserve to die? Yes. Did our military do the right thing? Absolutely. I can't bring myself to celebrate and rejoice that another person is dead. I feel a sense of relief in this necessary action, but no joy.

 

Yes. This. The celebrations upset me, but I do not think we did the wrong thing by having bin Laden killed. I too would have preferred to see him brought to justice, but that was an unrealistic expectation.

[Tutor]

I'm in the camp of thinking that his death was probably necessary, but that the killing of any human being is not something we should ever celebrate. It is, at best, a regrettable necessity like, as I mentioned in another thread, putting down an attack dog. But it seems like it should be a time for solemnity to me, not a time for dancing and joyful shouting.

 

Ditto.

[sleepymommy]

My husband and I talked about this for a while last night. He did not like the idea of celebrating a death. He know the guy was straight evil, but the thought of someone's death is still difficult.

 

I see this as a necessary fact of war. War is not meant to be hugs and roses.

 

I'm sure most here know I'm believe in Sanatana Dharma (Hindu) and the Bhagvad Geeta is a very important scripture. It recounts the events of a major war, Arjuna is meant to uphold dharma by killing the opposing side-many of whom were his own relatives. He was torn and upset, he did not want to engage in the war. Krishna reminds him that it is his dharma (duty) as soldier.

 

He is reminded to simply do his duty, not to take pleasure or pain in it. This is the righteous path.

 

So I see this as job well done, I'm not busting out the champagne and celebrating a person's death, but I am also not the least bit upset in his death.

 

It was a necessary act of war.

[Mejane]

I won't throw a party or dance in the street, but I will raise a glass tonight for our president, our soldiers and intelligence agencies, and for the fact that this... person is no longer here to make evil plans that involve murdering thousands of innocent people.

[Impish]

I just wish there wasn't others to step into his place. That it truly ended with him.

[LibraryLover]

I don't think the dancing serves us well as a nation. I have only heard about it; I don't think I could bear to see it. The world is so messy and complicated.

[bookfiend]

I agree with all of the PPs, this was a necessary evil, as is all executions. It's a solemn moment, not one for a party.

 

What I have seen (I haven't read all the comments) are some people saying that we shouldn't be jubilant at his death, at any death. It wasn't an objection to the killing, but to the public reaction to it.

 

Laura

 

:iagree:

 

You know I'm actually having a hard time with the hateful comments that friends and family are making on facebook. Isn't it these hateful attitudes that got us here in the first place. They hate us, we hate them - let's all kill each other. I just see all this hate perpetuating the problem.

 

It's not so much that Osama has been killed, because I agree the poster above, but the gleeful celebration and whooping it up that I am seeing.

 

As another persepective, is it possible that people are rejoicing that justice has been done for those they have lost, celebration that victory in war has been obtained, even if only partially? I see this as less a celebration of one man's death, and more a gladness in spirit that the continuing potential for evil was stopped and payment for wicked transgress made.

[meggie]

From my point of view, I am neither happy nor sad. Or maybe it's both at the same time. I'm not sad, bc he was an evil man and did need to be taken out. But I cannot find myself celebrating over it. I don't think it will change anything. I think they'll probably retaliate and so then we'll retaliate again. And it will keep going until one side says "enough is enough." If Obama said today that now he would pull the troops out, I would probably be a lot happier. However, I really don't think that will happen.

 

When reading SOTW, I commented to my husband, "Wow, pretty much all of history is one nation trying to conquer another." It makes me sad for both sides that it is still going on all over the world. I wish we could all just get along, as silly as it sounds.

[mazakaal]

As I was making dinner and thinking about this thread, I wondered if the celebrations in the States are similar to the celebrations at the end of WWII. I'm not saying that this was as amazing of an occasion as the end of WWII, but I wonder if people felt like it was a tangible victory in the war on terror, and that the feeling of victory, not of death, is causing the urge to celebrate. I don't know. Like I said, I'm not over there, so I don't see what's going on, and I've done a lot more weeping today than smiling (but that's also due to a bit of sleep deprivation). I'm just trying to make sense of the whole thing.

[Carol in Cal.]

As another persepective, is it possible that people are rejoicing that justice has been done for those they have lost, celebration that victory in war has been obtained, even if only partially? I see this as less a celebration of one man's death, and more a gladness in spirit that the continuing potential for evil was stopped and payment for wicked transgress made.

 

Right. Justice not vengeance. It's done, it's finished, the head is gone now, maybe our troops can come home, certainly the world will be safer for this in the long run. But again, and mostly, justice.

 

If justice is delayed, is justice denied?

[Spy Car]

I'm in the camp of thinking that his death was probably necessary, but that the killing of any human being is not something we should ever celebrate. It is, at best, a regrettable necessity like, as I mentioned in another thread, putting down an attack dog. But it seems like it should be a time for solemnity to me, not a time for dancing and joyful shouting.

 

I'm feeling much the same way. I have no qualms that bin Laden was killed, it was something I feel was necessary and I'm glad this chapter is closed. But this is a solemn time of remembrance for me.

 

I'm glad [if that is the right word] that bin Laden is gone, and grateful that the Navy Seals came out of the operation unharmed, but I'm not feeling celebratory so much as solemn, grateful, and hopeful that this is the start of a new beginning.

 

Bill

[twoforjoy]

It's justice, not vengeance.

 

Where is that line, though?

 

I don't know, I tend to think that some of what separates justice from vengeance is intention and response. And when we celebrate something like this, I do think we're moving toward vengeance. It's a very, very fine line, that I think sometimes is mainly related to what's in our heart. And I do think that if we celebrate something like this, it reveals that it was a desire for vengeance that was in our hearts, rather than simply a desire for justice.

[melissel]

Right. Justice not vengeance. It's done, it's finished, the head is gone now, maybe our troops can come home, certainly the world will be safer for this in the long run. But again, and mostly, justice.

 

Maybe that's the difference. I don't see it in that way at all. Just because the head is gone doesn't mean the body can't and won't do as much or more damage. I don't think his death means anything in all of this. I do think it's justice, yes, but for all practical purposes, I think it means nothing at all.

[Pretty in Pink]

I do not feel sad that he is dead, yet at the same time I'm not feeling particularly celebratory. If I stop to ponder, I do feel incredibly sad that we live in a world where such action is necessary. I do feel that his death was necessary. It happened, and that is good in a sense.

 

I am incredibly proud of our service members and the dedication with which they have carried out their mission.

[twoforjoy]

As another persepective, is it possible that people are rejoicing that justice has been done for those they have lost, celebration that victory in war has been obtained, even if only partially? I see this as less a celebration of one man's death, and more a gladness in spirit that the continuing potential for evil was stopped and payment for wicked transgress made.

 

Has justice been done, though? I'm not sure. Real justice, a real making right of things, would undo the deaths and the pain, and this will not do that.

 

I think we can look forward to real justice in the future, when God will make all things new and right every wrong. At that point, we can really, truly celebrate. This is, at best, a punishment that fit the crime, which is a good thing, but IMO not a joyous thing.

[BarbecueMom]

I was in college when 9/11 happened, and I remember at the time a (very) small group of students shortly after who were protesting ANY kind of retaliation, military action, or response to the attacks. They would have not been opposed to bringing bin Ladin to justice, so long as it did not involve any act of violence or resistance (aka, wait for him to have an "aha!" moment and check into Gitmo like it's a terrorist rehab center or something). That's simply not possible in a situation like this, so they advocated ignoring it. In their minds, the death of innocents was preferable to having blood on one's hands.

 

I'm pretty sure this view is limited to a select, radical group of college students who are isolated from reality while they "find themselves".

[Carol in Cal.]

Where is that line, though?

 

I don't know, I tend to think that some of what separates justice from vengeance is intention and response. And when we celebrate something like this, I do think we're moving toward vengeance. It's a very, very fine line, that I think sometimes is mainly related to what's in our heart. And I do think that if we celebrate something like this, it reveals that it was a desire for vengeance that was in our hearts, rather than simply a desire for justice.

 

That's really the question of the hour, I guess...where the line is.

But I disagree that celebration implies a desire for vengeance. It can be just a relief that justice was finally done.

Did you see the video where OBL gloated about the infidel flesh flying everywhere? Now justice has prevailed, and that is cause for celebration in my book.

It's not 'You got me, and I got you back so neener neener neener!' but rather 'This was wrong, and a sentence was pronounced, and finally it has been carried out. It's overdue, and this is a profound relief.'

[leeannpal]

:iagree:

For me, I think its about the fact that nothing is going to actually improve or change for the better with his death. There are too many to step into his shoes. I don't see the men and women in the armed forces being any safer today than they were Saturday. I don't see war ending, I don't see peace happening.

 

I'm not saying his death was wrong, or shouldn't have happened.

 

I *wish* with all my heart it would make a positive difference...but I just don't see it.

 

But there has been a positive difference already-justice for those killed in 9/11. I don't see this issue as any different than the families that cry for joy after a guilty verdict in which a murderer is sentenced to life in prison.

 

I saw an interview of one man who came to be in the crowd standing before the White House. He had a photo of his son, a former marine. He said that he had to come down and bring his son so that they could rejoice together that this evil man had gotten what he deserved. I know if that had been my child, I would feel exactly the same

[Mejane]

But there has been a positive difference already-justice for those killed in 9/11. I don't see this issue as any different than the families that cry for joy after a guilty verdict in which a murderer is sentenced to life in prison.

 

 

 

Exactly. One would have to be delusional to believe terrorism will end with this one man's death. In fact, we will almost certainly see acts of retaliation. bin Laden has paid what he owed, though, for his part in 9/11. Justice prevailed.

[Amira]

I think justice needs to involve a trial at the very least. This may well have been just, but I can't know that.

 

I feel the same about bin Ladin as I did when I heard Saddam Hussein had been captured. So relieved that Hussein couldn't inflict his brand of horror on Iraq anymore, but I will always been uncomfortable with the amount of destruction we have inflicted on Iraq ourselves. Afghanistan is no different. I don't know if the ends justify the means. Americans might feel safer, but I don't know if Iraqis and Afghanis and Pakistanis are more secure. I care as much about them as I do Americans.

 

It's hard to get rid of rotten, abusive leaders. There's no good way to do it and there are always some negative results, and most of those results will be heaped on the people who suffered most in the first place.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think justice needs to involve a trial at the very least. This may well have been just, but I can't know that.

 

 

 

Trials are aborted all the time when someone pleads guilty. The video OBL released was his guilty plea. We can know this by his own words. There is no doubt about this one.