Rosie_0801 Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 :lol: He said the meeting would be short. :lol: You're going back to grammar stage learning. This is not about mastering, it is about exploring. ;) A short "lesson" that ends on a happy note is better than a long lesson that ends with tears. :) Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 :lol: You're going back to grammar stage learning. This is not about mastering, it is about exploring. ;) A short "lesson" that ends on a happy note is better than a long lesson that ends with tears. :) Rosie :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 (edited) This makes me feel hopeful. I guess we'll just keep trying and researching until then. I guess I should be glad knowing there's hope. I'm usually such a pessimist that once it starts going bad, I'm convinced it's going to be bad forever. Maybe I should try to have fun. I mean, it's supposed to be fun! I guarantee you that no one has it the way my dh and I usually do. It's actually a comedy routine. Imagine Stiller & Meara (married couple who are comics) were doing it. That's us. Not all dramatic, hot and heavy. And for me, sometimes I don't want to boil at all, or I just want to boil really fast. It's OK to like a range of teas. They all help create a connection and weave you together. Edited April 24, 2011 by nono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punchie Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 How comfortable are you w/your cup? How comfortable are you w/your DH's cup (and he yours)? Maybe you should try learning/exploring each other's cups w/o worrying about filling it w/tea? There's more to tea than just tea. While tea is good, it doesn't have to be the end all be all. Maybe removing the pressure of having to actually drink it would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kchara Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 WOW!! Usually I don't get into the teA threads... but maybe I should more often. I haven't mastered the art of multiple quotes, but this thread has made me feel SOOOOO much better! I have a lot of the same issues as the OP. You ladies rock!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertDweller Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 How comfortable are you w/your cup? How comfortable are you w/your DH's cup (and he yours)? Maybe you should try learning/exploring each other's cups w/o worrying about filling it w/tea? There's more to tea than just tea. While tea is good, it doesn't have to be the end all be all. Maybe removing the pressure of having to actually drink it would help. Reminds me of the saying that it's more about the journey than it is the destination. I would spend time learning how to make tea and not worry so much about the finished product. There are lots of ways to make tea and exploring those ways with each other can be very enjoyable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehogs4 Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Oh, OP. I've been married for more than 10 years now and can't remember when I enjoyed tea. Just the thought of having my pot boiling over (which it thankfully never has) gives me the heeby jeevies. I don't want to lose control like that. Being a virgin is much, much, easier. For me at least. I never touch my cup, I just clean it like I would a non-living object, very matter of fact get 'er done so I don't have to deal with it sort of thing. Unfortunately it's really important to dh. He's a passionate man, and he would do anything to see me enjoy it, want him. The rare times I feel like brewing tea, which is only when I'm pregnant or once a year or so, I don't like the way I feel toward him. Although I love him, I see him as an object for my pleasure and I don't give a whit about his. I see him then as a tool to get there. Maybe it is a good thing I'm not interested in making tea regularly then! I don't even like to kiss and the lovey-dovey stuff. I like to share experiences and talk. We both married being virgins, so yeah, I totally get the blind leading the blind comment. Now I'm a postpartum woman again (third and most likely last child), so forget it. It doesn't even occur to me. We're taking a four-month hiatus. Dh is cranky. OP...this is not the norm. I hope for Sagira and her husband's sake that she can work out this difficulty, or she may have trouble down the road. I would not feel comforted by this as a "you're not alone" statement. I hope it is meant by Sagira to say, "I could use some help in this area, too." TeA is AWESOME...but like so many people here have suggested...it's not always easy and sometimes takes practice as well as getting over our own hang-ups and embarrassment. Here's to a good cup of whatever flavor you find out you like best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 OP...this is not the norm. I hope for Sagira and her husband's sake that she can work out this difficulty, or she may have trouble down the road. I would not feel comforted by this as a "you're not alone" statement. I hope it is meant by Sagira to say, "I could use some help in this area, too." TeA is AWESOME...but like so many people here have suggested...it's not always easy and sometimes takes practice as well as getting over our own hang-ups and embarrassment. Here's to a good cup of whatever flavor you find out you like best! These comments make me feel comforted in that I've always felt like some kind a failure; a miserable freak among humankind. I'm glad I know that lots of people have been in the same place as me and that lots of them have worked it out. That gives me hope. They also make me sad because I know how they feel and like I said, it's not a happy place. Lots of people have PMed me with other recommendations and advice. If anyone wants more than is on this thread, they are free to PM me as well. Everyone's anonymity will be protected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Haven't read all the replies but I'm concerned by a couple of comments that imply that it's wrong to desire tea with your spouse or to want your tea to boil over. That view is not the norm, nor is it a healthy view of teamaking. There have been seasons where I felt like I didn't care whether I ever had tea again, but I saw that as a problem that needed to be addressed with my spouse, not accepted as just the way it is. Teamaking is important in marriage, and so is enjoying it IMHO--and I do now. OP, you're making a positive move forward by bringing it up and addressing it with your spouse rather than giving up hope that things will ever change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 :lol: :lol: You're going back to grammar stage learning. This is not about mastering, it is about exploring. ;) A short "lesson" that ends on a happy note is better than a long lesson that ends with tears. :) Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgehog Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 These comments make me feel comforted in that I've always felt like some kind a failure; a miserable freak among humankind.... :grouphug: TeA-making is a learning curve, like any other. It needs practice, and practice takes time. Fortunately, this is not a race. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mynyel Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I have to say I am similar :D I don't get the hype either. If I never have to do it again I'd be good with it. I t is just so exhausting and I am tired most of the time anyway. When I go to bed I want to sleep, not stay up later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Did you know that a LARGE percentage of women, perhaps even the majority, cannot um, "finish" during the actual act of TeA? I'm one of them. I have managed to "finish" during the act only twice in my lifetime. Many women need to have their needs handled either before or after the act. So my preference is to have my husband please me (manually or otherwise) until I'm finished with my cup of TeA, lol, THEN we do the actual act. Othertimes he pleases me afterwards. But he ALWAYS does. Again, my perference is first, as it makes the act itself more intense, but either works. I could of typed this and join the Large percentage but didn't know the problem until I was 30 and well lets just say marriage sucked before we figured it out:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 OP, it sounds like you and your dh are on the way to a better teA party.:party: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delighted3 Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I just wanted to recommend a great book: http://www.amazon.com/Sheet-Music-Uncovering-Intimacy-Marriage/dp/0842360247/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1303581405&sr=8-5 I haven't read the whole thread, but this is a very good book. Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 After 14 years of struggling with this topic I came to this conclusion as well and it worked. Well, I made the big mistake of sharing this with my dh and that was not pretty. He was not appreciative of my viewing this as a ministry of sorts; he wants me to feel about this the way he does, to want it like he does. Not going to happen. Yes, I'm fairly sure my dh would have a cow too if I were to tell him!!! I'm sorry, but that's life: I just don't have dh's drive. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnsinkableKristen Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Oh, and remember it doesn't have to be all "serious" and "romantic" and high pressure! We do a lot of teasing and tickling and belly laughing. I'm terribly bad at starting to laugh in the middle of everything because I thought of something funny or heard us making a funny sound :lol:. More than anything, though, it's a time when we can be just "us". Not me, not me and the kids, not us and the kids - just US. We are pals, we are friends and it's just the two of us having fun and playing without a care for anyone else. The more you learn about your own body and how best your bodies work together, the more fun it will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Oh, and remember it doesn't have to be all "serious" and "romantic" and high pressure! We do a lot of teasing and tickling and belly laughing. I'm terribly bad at starting to laugh in the middle of everything because I thought of something funny or heard us making a funny sound :lol:. More than anything, though, it's a time when we can be just "us". Not me, not me and the kids, not us and the kids - just US. We are pals, we are friends and it's just the two of us having fun and playing without a care for anyone else. The more you learn about your own body and how best your bodies work together, the more fun it will be. :iagree: TeA is full of funny sounds.:tongue_smilie: Be friends with benefits.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I wasn't going to post, but what the heck. I think that for men, teA begins when the wrap comes of the tea bag. For women, it begins hours and hours before. Because for women, the brain is an important part of the equation. Finding out what increases and what decrease desire for teA is very helpful. You might ask your DH to try various things, such as massage foot rubs singing to you reading poetry to you giving secret signals to you earlier in the day teasing touch roll playing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 OrganicAnn, you left the most important thing off your list! Dishwashing! :D:D Not everyone agrees about men in kilts, but surely there's no one around who doesn't like to see their guy washing dishes? :tongue_smilie: Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 This is a beautiful thread and I don't have anything to add except that...its meant to be fun. Don't take it too seriously, and its ok to laugh and giggle and play, and be embarrassed, and cry, and all of that. Life can get awfully serious, with little kids especially. TeA is a great place to be playful and let go of the seriousness of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 OrganicAnn, you left the most important thing off your list! Dishwashing! :D:D Not everyone agrees about men in kilts, but surely there's no one around who doesn't like to see their guy washing dishes? :tongue_smilie: Rosie Hey now! Don't diss the kilts. Rather see Wolf in a kilt than doing dishes any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 OrganicAnn, you left the most important thing off your list! Dishwashing! :D:D Not everyone agrees about men in kilts, but surely there's no one around who doesn't like to see their guy washing dishes? :tongue_smilie: Rosie That might explain my complicated and confusing feelings towards my automatic dishwasher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 That might explain my complicated and confusing feelings towards my automatic dishwasher. :smilielol5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevilla Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 This is a beautiful thread and I don't have anything to add except that...its meant to be fun. Don't take it too seriously, and its ok to laugh and giggle and play, and be embarrassed, and cry, and all of that.Life can get awfully serious, with little kids especially. TeA is a great place to be playful and let go of the seriousness of life. Definitely. Being silly and joking around together while making Tea is part of the deal. I can't imagine trying to seriously replicate what they show in the movies (which I actually find rather humorous as it's not much like the real thing in its entirety...). I once read that making Tea is a form of playing/recreation for adults, and I think that's a good perspective to put on it. And the bonding hormones released from tea making are so healthy for a relationship - it makes the daily grind of life and small annoyances with a spouse much easier to face with grace and patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 That might explain my complicated and confusing feelings towards my automatic dishwasher. :smilielol5::smilielol5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 3. She Comes First by Ian Kerner this book is *wonderful*, absolutely get it. This should definitely be something that you look forward to with your dh, not something to dread and avoid. I think it's such an integral part of a marriage, that you are not as bonded together as you should be if it's something you hate. Yes, yes, yes and amen. I am so very, very sad for women who don't enjoy tea. Myself, I had to work though a lot of "Bad Girl" dialog running though my head as we brewed. I would read books and talk to other women and not only want the tea they were having, but the complete emotional and physical intimacy that it brought. I wanted to be known by my husband in that depth, and to know him as well. I wanted it to be better, because I wanted our relationship to be better. One book that started me along the process of learning to open up enough to let him be emotional and physically vulnerable in front of him was the book Kosher Sex by Shmuley Boteach. Fantastic book. (he does not advocate brewing tea yourself, but I wouldn't NOT read the book because I disagreed). I haven't read it, but it looks like Kosher Adultery is another good one. The other books listed are good, too. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 That might explain my complicated and confusing feelings towards my automatic dishwasher. :rofl: Imp, he can wash dishes while wearing a kilt. It doesn't have to be one or the other. :lol: Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Rosie, darlin... If he's washing dishes in a kilt, then either I'm not home, or unconcious. He wouldn't have the time...:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Intimacy is complicated... and our responses aren't purely physical, there are emotional, mental, and (imho) spiritual components as well. Figuring out where the disconnect is can be really hard. I believe that the physical reflects the spiritual and that intimacy between spouses is a reflection of the blending, the union, the *joy*, and the unbounded love... As such, I think of it as an essential component of a G-dly marriage... when that part of the marriage isn't going well, it is, imho, a harmful thing for both partners and for the marriage itself. ...even more so when it is a reflection of a deeper disconnect in the marriage rather than a purely physical issue. When everything is working well, intimacy is both a celebration of love and connection and deepening of them. The last Yom Tov days of Pesach are almost here, so I have very little time, but here are a few thoughts: The most significant body part involved in arousal is the brain (not the the mechanics don't matter, but mental connection, interest, pleasure associations are *very* powerful, and important to be aware of.) Think about the things that warm your heart, about the gestures, touches, looks, words, etc that say love, intimacy, s*xy to you... what makes you swoon? There are a lot of stereotypes, for both genders, but all that matters is what *your* buttons are... and your husband's. What makes you feel desirable? Feeling attractive/desirable to your partner, having things you do/wear/say/etc that you know make his eyes gleam is powerful. Giving him joy, pleasure, love made tangible is a pleasure of its own. (Not to replace yours!) Intimacy and power issues are deeply connected - there is, on the one hand, a 'surrendering'... a letting go of control... to the physical, to the moment, and, in some ways, to one's partner. On the other hand, sexuality can be really empowering. Both of those aspects can be profoundly uncomfortable, especially for women. ...but, when worked through, powerful in a very positive way. Play together. Laugh together. Snuggle, massage, hug, enjoy non-sexual physical contact. Enjoy expressing all those amazing feelings of love and connection in a tangible way. Spend time thinking about all the things you love about your husband. Remember what it feels like to have your world revolve around him... to *adore* him. He's still that wonderful... and now you have even more examples of it, right? You know that feeling when we look down at a newborn and want to hold him/her to our heart and never let go? That's part of intimacy, the desire to hold a beloved close. ...or the way sometimes one wants to burst into song or dance to let out the joy in one's heart with one's body... that's part of it too. It's the shared quotations, the little jokes, the way your heart turns to him first, in joy or sorrow. It's being connected down to the essence of your being. It's knowing that your souls are half of a larger whole. I have an amazing marriage, in all aspects (through no virtue of my own! ... just a kindness from G-d.), but we need to reconnect sometimes, to relearn things... to shift gears in some ways because our lives or our bodies or our tastes have changed or evolved. When that happens, we do a lot of what I suggested above... but the three most important things have been: studying Torah together (we always try to do a little each day, but moving it to the fore front combined with talking about the big picture stuff in our lives is grounding/centering), playing/laughing together (card games, yahtzee, word games... sometimes we play for silly stakes... or for things for each other... If I win I'll give him an X minute foot massage I say. He'll say he'll clean out our closet or some other little thing he knows will bring a smile to my face), and taking the time to be more aware of each other and how much we are in love. On the purely physical issues: positioning is important for your pleasure. Experimenting is essential! One fun aid, much sturdier than regular pillows and very well designed, is the Liberator brand "wedge" (the have other cushions as well). I believe there is a Xtian site that sells them, or used to... be careful if you google for them! Their site is... illustrated (I wanted to find a better price than the safe site had... I did, but it wasn't worth it!). They are expensive, but worth *every* penny. In your situation, I wouldn't be very goal oriented in this process... I'd want to learn to *play* together, to express affection physically in ways we both enjoy, to learn to understand my body & its reactions.. and his. There's a reason this is a big deal... and when that physical magic is an expression/extension of a deep spiritual and emotional connection... well... even more magical! Rainbows, fireworks, joy beyond imagining. I wish you joy... and much pleasure! in the journey as you guys figure things out together. Thank you, I think that was a beautiful post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Rosie, darlin... If he's washing dishes in a kilt, then either I'm not home, or unconcious. He wouldn't have the time...:D I thought the mental picture would keep you entertained. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2absh Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Thank you, I think that was a beautiful post. :iagree: I just want to add one thing to this conversation. I have a poor self image - I truly weigh too much, I am NOT sexy - "sexy" in my head still equals what pop culture says it is, what I learned it was when I was a kid - and I'm not that now, and I never was. This has interfered with TeA for our whole marriage. But I am learning now, after 18 years, that my dh does not need or want "that" sexy. He is happy that he has a woman all to himself to have TeA with! Yeah, there's more of my flesh than there should be (and I am trying to change that), but this is the flesh he gets, and that's OK, because he's getting it :D! I find that attitude liberating. It tells me I'm "good enough" the way I am, not that I have to attain something else first before TeA can be good. It's a revelation to me, because that's not how I was thinking about it at all. (And that's not my dh's fault - we just didn't talk about it much, and when we did, I didn't believe him:tongue_smilie:) I realize not all men will feel that way, but the one's who don't are wrong!! I'll bet your dh does feel that way about you, and if that's true, you can let that idea help you, too. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I thought the mental picture would keep you entertained. :) :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iona Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 they don't do indoor work, only outdoor:D ...maybe it is a safety issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Liberator brand "wedge" (the have other cushions as well). I did a search for this item and went to liberator.com. This is a full service site. Explicit material but very helpful and informative. Varying levels of info available. You can learn how to use things from fully clothed and funny people. In the car? How can that possibly be safe? :001_huh: Ok, I am going to assume she means when the car is not in motion. Anyhow, Eliana thanks for this, well I was going to say plug but on second thought . . .;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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