Deciding to require DS to respond "yes ma'am/sir"

[Laurie4b]

It really does seem to be a regional thing. My friend from California cannot stand to be called ma'am. My son plays at her house often, and I have excused him from saying the ma'am to her. My friend from Michigan doesn't require it of her own children, but doesn't get upset if a child responds that way to her. Then, for dh and I (both raised in the south), hearing a child respond "yeah" or "yep," to an adult makes our ears bleed. :tongue_smilie: It just sounds so disrespectful...I can't even put it into words.

 

It absolutely is a regional thing. It's probably important to teach your kids that people in other areas of the country will regard it as impolite and disrespectful. This is really, really hard for people raised in the South to wrap their minds around, I know, because I live here. However, having lived elsewhere, I know the gut reaction is negative. It's associated with sarcasm and as a way of connoting that the person being addressed that way is overbearing, etc. It has connotations of slave-to-master talk. People will ask you to stop doing it and be insulted that you did it in the first place.

 

Even now, having lived in the South most of my life, I use it in public situations in which it would be appropriate in this region and teach my sons to do likewise. However, when a kid is yes ma'aming me all over the place, I have to work hard not to give into my gut annoyance and to cognitively "translate" that "He's just trying to be polite" rather than "Boy, is he laying it on thick."

[texasmama]

It absolutely is a regional thing. It's probably important to teach your kids that people in other areas of the country will regard it as impolite and disrespectful. This is really, really hard for people raised in the South to wrap their minds around, I know, because I live here. However, having lived elsewhere, I know the gut reaction is negative. It's associated with sarcasm and as a way of connoting that the person being addressed that way is overbearing, etc. It has connotations of slave-to-master talk. People will ask you to stop doing it and be insulted that you did it in the first place.

 

Even now, having lived in the South most of my life, I use it in public situations in which it would be appropriate in this region and teach my sons to do likewise. However, when a kid is yes ma'aming me all over the place, I have to work hard not to give into my gut annoyance and to cognitively "translate" that "He's just trying to be polite" rather than "Boy, is he laying it on thick."

 

:iagree:I'm a lifetime Southern gal who has chosen not to teach my kids to say "yes, ma'am", etc. My mother made a run at trying to require my brother and I to say it when we were kids, but it didn't "take". I become uncomfortable when I hear a child repeatedly use it, much as Laurie does. The only person who requires my kids to say this and corrects them if they don't is my dh's 92 yo grandmother. The kids have learned that she considers this to be nice manners.:001_smile:

[Murphy101]

I know that's been shared several times on this thread that adults would tell children to not address them in such a way. I think that is creating an unnecessary "hill" so to speak.

 

Susan

 

I agree. To ME, telling a child to stop calling you "sir/ma'am/mrs/mr" is no different than telling them to stop saying "please/thank you/excuse me".

 

If it is a question of attitude, I don't tell them to not say yes ma'am. I tell them to stop that rude tone. All of mine know exactly what I mean when I say that. And I tell them that when they say "yes mooooom" with verbal eye roll attitude too.:tongue_smilie:

 

 

I see nothing pompous about insisting my children use more formal manners.

If you prefer to be more casual, that is fine by me, but insisting someone else (much less their children) be just as casual as you is something I don't understand.

 

ETA: family or close family friends tend to be a mix response of first name, miss/mr first name, mrs/mr last name or whatever pending the person.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Martha

[Ester Maria]

I grew up calling my mom's two best friends Joanne and Tina. I called my dad's best friends Derry and Dave. I was not rude, impolite, or somehow convinced I was an adult. It's just what we did.

Wait, you might be confusing two instances.

 

The first question is, how does a child address a random adult whom they do not know.

The second question is, how does a child address an adult who had specified to them how they wish to be addressed.

Two COMPLETELY different things.

 

What displeases me personally - though trust me, I am a lot more open online than IRL, i.e. I would not necessarily let on my disapproval in any way IRL, since that itself might turn out into an instance of disrespect - is when people assume a certain level of intimacy. I am not alright with people who are not my close friends or family taking the freedom of calling me by my first name, and I am especially not delighted when I am addressed in the informal form by children whom I barely know.

 

Because of this, and because of the whole "if you are not sure whether you are with somebody or formal or on informal terms, try formal" principle, I teach my children to assume the same position when it comes to adults they meet for the first time. Better to come across as a bit old-fashioned and old-mannered than to come across as "not knowing your place" by talking to adults the way you would talk to your friends (tu, first name basis, etc.).

 

However, should a person specify they wish to be addressed in a certain way, their request is to be met with courtesy. While I instruct my children to assume formality when they are not sure, if somebody insists otherwise, they are to comply with that. Therefore, my children call other adults in their lives in a plethora of ways, from the strictest Signor Rossi, to the most relaxed, laid back Marco.

 

Disrespect is not in the form itself. Disrespect is in assuming equal level until you are told otherwise. The passage from formality to informality should be marked by the insisting of the adult, not the freedom the child assumes. So, unless I specify I am to be first-name whom you may say "ciao" and "bye" to and talk to in a tu-form, I am to remain Mrs X, whom you salute with a more "standard" meeting and, if we are in Italy, you better stick to Lei-forms. The passage from formal to informal communication must be initiated by the adult. Once it happens, there is perfectly nothing wrong or inherently impolite about it - assuming familiarity rather than a respectful distance is what is inherently impolite.

[lionfamily1999]

So, as an adult, it's OK to get offended because a child is being taught what is considered in that family to be respectful to adults, but it's OK to offend the child's parents by overstepping bounds and telling the child *not* to call said adult by the title the parents have put forth? :confused: Sorry, in this situation, it seems the adult is being the rude one. The child is learning manners and protocol, the adult should know and acknowledge the attempt at manners, rather than make the parent's job more difficult by adding another name into the mix, when the parent has clearly laid out the standard for that family.

:iagree:

When it comes to ME, I DETEST when other people's children (and, I hate to say it, much more Americans than Europeans) take upon themselves the freedom of calling me my first name or, in languages such as Italian and French which differentiate formal from informal forms, take the freedom to be on tu with me instead of on Lei / Vous. I find it rude, poor mannered and crossing certain limits with me.

 

Same for adults, actually. I do not want to be called a bunch of -issima first + all my titles after that, but taking the freedom to call me my first name if we are not informal one with another is just bad manners in my book.

:iagree: I find it very irritating to be called by my first name by people I do not know. I'll let you know if I'm comfortable dropping the Mrs. thank you.

There seems to be an idea that calling adults Mr./Mrs. Lastname is inherently more polite and that allowing children to call adults by there first names indicates an inherent lack of respect.

 

This simply isn't true.

 

I grew up calling my mom's two best friends Joanne and Tina. I called my dad's best friends Derry and Dave. I was not rude, impolite, or somehow convinced I was an adult. It's just what we did.

 

I really don't like the idea that one way of doing things is inherently superior and that everyone else's way is somehow lacking.

 

If, in your culture, it's polite for kids to call adults Ma'am/Sir and Mr./Mrs. Lastname, that's fine, but in our culture, my kids call my friends by their first names. Implying that somehow your kids are more mannerly and that those of us who wished to be called something other than Sir/Ma'am/Mr./Mrs. Lastname are thwarting the process of instilling manners is both incorrect and pompous.

 

Tara

There's also this idea that calling people sir or ma'am or using a title is subservient or rude. I agree with you Tara, I think that people should accept, respect and at least tolerate other people's cultural ideas/values in respect to how they speak to other people.

[simka2]

However, should a person specify they wish to be addressed in a certain way, their request is to be met with courtesy. While I instruct my children to assume formality when they are not sure, if somebody insists otherwise, they are to comply with that. Therefore, my children call other adults in their lives in a plethora of ways, from the strictest Signor Rossi, to the most relaxed, laid back Marco.

 

Disrespect is not in the form itself. Disrespect is in assuming equal level until you are told otherwise. The passage from formality to informality should be marked by the insisting of the adult, not the freedom the child assumes. So, unless I specify I am to be first-name whom you may say "ciao" and "bye" to and talk to in a tu-form, I am to remain Mrs X, whom you salute with a more "standard" meeting and, if we are in Italy, you better stick to Lei-forms. The passage from formal to informal communication must be initiated by the adult. Once it happens, there is perfectly nothing wrong or inherently impolite about it - assuming familiarity rather than a respectful distance is what is inherently impolite.

 

:iagree:This was the point I was trying to make earlier. You said it beautifully. :D

[Haiku]

The second question is, how does a child address an adult who had specified to them how they wish to be addressed.

 

*snip*

 

However, should a person specify they wish to be addressed in a certain way, their request is to be met with courtesy.

 

Oh, but we who wish to be called by our first names have been told, in this thread, that not only would be be defriended for this preference, but also we are actively working against the instillation of proper manners in other people's children.

 

It has been stated in this thread that wishing to be called by our own names is downright unacceptable. Even if we are friends with the parents. It's gone way beyond what we call those we don't know.

 

Tara

[Ester Maria]

Oh, but we who wish to be called by our first names have been told, in this thread, that not only would be be defriended for this preference, but also we are actively working against the instillation of proper manners in other people's children.

 

It has been stated in this thread that wishing to be called by our own names is downright unacceptable. Even if we are friends with the parents. It's gone way beyond what we call those we don't know.

Oh, I see - if that is what you meant, then yes, I am with you. ;)

[CanaryMelody]

We taught our kids to respond with "ma'am" and "sir"--practically everyone around here does (Deep South). We prompted them from the time they were little, and it became automatic.

 

:iagree: I was raised in the deep south and knew no other way. My kids (except my oldest) all do this naturally. I still say Ma'am/Sir to other adults I talk to, so both my husband and I model this to our children as well. :001_smile:

[junepep]

There seems to be an idea that calling adults Mr./Mrs. Lastname is inherently more polite and that allowing children to call adults by there first names indicates an inherent lack of respect.

 

This simply isn't true.

 

I grew up calling my mom's two best friends Joanne and Tina. I called my dad's best friends Derry and Dave. I was not rude, impolite, or somehow convinced I was an adult. It's just what we did.

 

I really don't like the idea that one way of doing things is inherently superior and that everyone else's way is somehow lacking.

 

Tara

 

This is how I was raised as well, I called all of my parent's friends by their first names. I did and still do respect them immensely, they are like second parents to me.

 

Because I found that adults are not referred to solely by their first names in the region that I moved to as an adult I have instructed my children to call people by Mr or Ms, Mrs [First Name]. I've found that it's an acceptable compromise for nearly everyone. The girls know that if an adult requests a different form of address their wishes always take precedence over our norm.

 

It is really interesting to me that different regions and people have such wildly different responses to this :). Personally, I think that saying Sir or Ma'am sounds incredibly servile and will often be said in such a way (ie in customer service) as to sound disrespectful as well. I prefer that it not be used in reference to me by either my children or others. I will also make that preference known in a polite manner, and I simply use gentle reminders with children and their parents that forget.

 

We use yes please or no thank you to denote respectful address in response to a question both inside and outside of our home. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside because it's what I learned, but I would be very unhappy with my children if they continued to address someone in that way after they had been informed of a contrary preference.

 

Basically manners are supposed to be a way smoothing social interactions, not hindering them or forcing others to adapt to your preference. It makes me sad to see a few people on this thread using them as some sort of standard to force on to others or as a tool to separate the polite 'us' and the impolite 'them'.

 

To sum up - I agree with Tara, it is NOT inherently impolite to address an adult by their first name if a preference has not been offered and you didn't have time to ask what they'd prefer before your child spoke to them. And in my opinion it is unfair to make it seem like OTHER regional preferences lack validity because they are foreign to you. Just as I have adapted as well as I could to my current region, I ask others to be respectful to me and my "foreign manners" and address me with my preference. This is manners to me.

 

To the OP I wish you every luck in your pursuit. I've found that simple quiet corrections have worked beautifully with my girls and that in this case there really is no need for a reward, having an interested adult's attention is reward enough for most children :)

[leeannpal]

I think it is sad that so many people feel that "ma'am" and "sir" is bad. I'm not saying you can't feel that way, but I'm still sad about it. I love when I'm called "ma'am." I find it sweet and respectful. It is not offensive to me at all. My family came from the deep south though. We said "yes, ma'am" and "yes, sir" to my parents. Like others have said, I wouldn't make it a big deal with your dc, especially if it is a foreign thing right now. Make it a game like a pp said.

 

I'm from the deep South also, and I really don't like being called ma'am. It makes me feel really old. I guess I see it as a sign of age rather than respect.

[Murphy101]

Oh, but we who wish to be called by our first names have been told, in this thread, that not only would be be defriended for this preference, but also we are actively working against the instillation of proper manners in other people's children.

 

It has been stated in this thread that wishing to be called by our own names is downright unacceptable. Even if we are friends with the parents. It's gone way beyond what we call those we don't know.

 

Tara

 

What? Who said that? Not I!

 

I have never defriended someone because they prefer their first name.

 

Now, if my child habitually says "ma'am" and you habitually correct them, THAT will get on my nerves. For crying out loud, correct them for something else. Something other than a habit of using formal manners. Most older children will likely remember what you prefer if they know you well. Younger children are going to respond out of habits learned though.

 

I don't understand the friend of the family thing either. To me, my only kindly put suggestion is that you might possibly think you are a closer friend of the family than the family thinks you are? For some people, they think just knowing each other is enough to be deemed "friends". For example, a Sunday school teacher or scout leader? Not close enough just because we know you and see you on a regular basis. Those are nice acquaintances and we have nothing against them personally. But friends? Meh. Not really.

 

To US friends of the family are a near daily part of our lives. We share meals and our homes are open to each other and they can be counted on to answer midnight emergency phone calls. We have only a few of them. Calling them by their first name, or whatever they prefer, is on par with familial endearment.

 

In an effort to not be rude, we would probably allow it with someone outside that close relationship if they requested it, but it would feel stilted and would take repeated effort to remember to do it instead of the relied on habit of a more formal address. If that makes any sense?

[Mergath]

I would interpret that to mean that he sees rich lordly type men who don't ever have to bust their butts being called "sir" and that's not him.

 

 

Sort of. In the military- or the Army, at least, I can't tell you about the other branches- there's sort of a (usually joking) animosity between officers and the enlisted folk. Officers are always referred to as sir/ma'am; enlisted servicemen never are, and to call an enlisted person sir or ma'am is a breach of protocol. So when a sergeant says not to call him sir because he works for a living, he's really saying, "Do I look like an officer to you? Do you see me getting paid lots of money to sit around and do nothing?" :D

[TheAutumnOak]

I really don't like the idea that one way of doing things is inherently superior and that everyone else's way is somehow lacking.

 

Implying that somehow your kids are more mannerly and that those of us who wished to be called something other than Sir/Ma'am/Mr./Mrs. Lastname are thwarting the process of instilling manners is both incorrect and pompous.

 

Tara

 

I don't think it is that people are being pompous...I just think that people disagree an whether kids should or should not call people sir or madam...It is not an issue of superiority, no more than being a vegetarian or not being one is an issue of superiority...People feel differently and act according to their beliefs...

 

I don't think it is possible for people to agree with everything...By agreeing with some things you are automatically disagreeing with other things, and it is okay...

 

None of us are superior or inferior, just people with different views...

 

Just my 2 cents that may not be worth 1 :tongue_smilie:

[NanceXToo]

I just wish I could get my kids to ANSWER me. At this point, I'd almost take yo mama!

 

:lol:

[CarolfromIL]

 

I know its cultural differences, but it almost seems like an insecurity that some people have to "feel important". Maybe some of these parents do not have important jobs or important status in life, and by requiring their children to call them "M'aam or "Sir" makes that parent feel they are "important".

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

If their mother insisted "Oh, no, they're not allowed to call you by your first name, they have to call you ma'am"... well, that would feel odd and uncomfortable to me rather than "polite."

 

I'd probably answer with "Who? What? Oh, you're talking to me!" every time. Eventually one of us would wear out and stop caring.

:lol:

If the child was old enough that we could all assume they did know manners, I might tease them by saying "Huh? Who do you think I am? The Queen?"

 

Starting off formally demonstrates the child has some manners. That is good. Downgrading to whatever the adult in question prefers to be called shows the child has mastered that particular piece of etiquette, to my way of thinking. If you can't tweak the formula to suit the circumstances, you aren't truly comfortable with your information.

 

But I'm an informal Aussie who's never set foot in America (or Italy for that matter, :tongue_smilie:)

:)

Rosie

Edited April 16, 2011 by Rosie_0801

[susankenny]

it almost seems like an insecurity that some people have to "feel important". Maybe some of these parents do not have important jobs or important status in life, and by requiring their children to call them "M'aam or "Sir" makes that parent feel they are "important".

 

 

 

 

I am in the south where people say sir and ma'am a lot. As an adult, I say it all of the time to people everywhere. My kids say it sometimes to me. I say it to them sometimes. It is not said like a person in the military. It really flows out of our mouths as normal sounding as please or thank-you. I imagine it does sound strange to those of you that don't say it or hear it, but if you were in my town, you would clearly hear our tone in which we use it & that it is not meant to make anyone feel more important than they are. It is used in many ways & the tone and context is usually clear. It can be used as a kind gesture to answer a store clerk (Do you need help outside today? No sir, I've got it. Thank you). It can be used to correct you child (No sir, we do not treat our sister that way!). It can be used to address your parent (If I call for my son, he may yell "ma'am" in the same manner that your child is asking "What?").

 

Not all people use it here & that's okay. I would not expect other kids to call me ma'am, nor would I be offended or taken back if they did.

 

Susan

[lionfamily1999]

n/mno point

Edited April 16, 2011 by lionfamily1999

[I.Dup.]

I know its cultural differences, but it almost seems like an insecurity that some people have to "feel important". Maybe some of these parents do not have important jobs or important status in life, and by requiring their children to call them "M'aam or "Sir" makes that parent feel they are "important".

 

 

 

 

Yikes!! It's been awhile since I've been on a board where people are just plain mean to each other. :confused:

[pfamilygal]

I know its cultural differences, but it almost seems like an insecurity that some people have to "feel important". Maybe some of these parents do not have important jobs or important status in life, and by requiring their children to call them "M'aam or "Sir" makes that parent feel they are "important".

 

 

 

 

 

Ouch! For us it is a simple sign of respect. There is a strong tendency in our culture for children to think they are smarter than adults, and a general attitude of disrespect in our media. Have you seen children's television lately? All the shows seem to feature bumbling idiot parents (especially dads) and smart kids. The Bible tells us we should honor our parents and our elders. It tells us that wise children take correction and heed counsel. So we teach our children to say "yes, ma'am" and "yes, sir" because they are children. And they are learning.

 

I say it to my elders and my boss as well.

 

It is not because I need to feel superior or important.

[UnsinkableKristen]

I know its cultural differences, but it almost seems like an insecurity that some people have to "feel important". Maybe some of these parents do not have important jobs or important status in life, and by requiring their children to call them "M'aam or "Sir" makes that parent feel they are "important".

 

 

 

 

 

That is a pretty harsh sweeping generalization.

[Ellesmere]

Oh, goodness, my girls call me Mommy; they just answer questions by saying, "Yes, ma'am", etc.

 

For example, they'd ask, "Mommy, can you read me a story?" NOT "Ma'am can you read me a story?" The latter would be COLD, COLD, COLD. I don't know anyone who would require their child to refer to them just as Ma'am.

 

Oh, I didn't realize my post sounded so dumb to you. I was just saying that Ma'am and Sir sound very cold to me (not saying that it is cold), even if just in response to questions or being called. That's only my impression, and I was interested to see how much one's regional background had to do with how we view this.

 

But with respect to the OP's desire, I did give my small two cents about how I would gently introduce the new form of response. I just think it would take time and patience to introduce something new since we still have to remind our oldest, and she's been taught to respond in one way from the start. Tone of voice means more, which maybe is why I haven't spoken up about my friend's kid calling me by my first name when I really wish she didn't.

 

If "ma'am" works for her (and anyone else), who am I to judge as long as she is a loving parent? Sounds like her family is doing fine! I didn't really think that anyone would eliminate "mommy" from a child's vocab. To me, it doesn't make sense to not allow the child to say, "Yes, Mom or Mommy" in response, but that's what they want to do and it's not my call to make for them.

[Shellydon]

Ouch! For us it is a simple sign of respect. There is a strong tendency in our culture for children to think they are smarter than adults, and a general attitude of disrespect in our media. Have you seen children's television lately? All the shows seem to feature bumbling idiot parents (especially dads) and smart kids. The Bible tells us we should honor our parents and our elders. It tells us that wise children take correction and heed counsel. So we teach our children to say "yes, ma'am" and "yes, sir" because they are children. And they are learning.

 

I say it to my elders and my boss as well.

 

It is not because I need to feel superior or important.

 

That is a pretty harsh sweeping generalization.

 

 

Clearly she didn't grow up in the south within a family that taught respect. :lol: :tongue_smilie:

[2cents]

You aren't alone. I'm not fond of yes ma'am or yes sir either. It seems too formal for me and unemotional. I prefer yes mom and yes dad.

 

:iagree:

[Mrs Mungo]

The suggestion that dh wants the children to answer him in what we deem a respectful manner because he doesn't have an important job is nothing short of hilarious.

[Murphy101]

The suggestion that dh wants the children to answer him in what we deem a respectful manner because he doesn't have an important job is nothing short of hilarious.

 

Yep. I agree.

[DarlaS]

The suggestion that dh wants the children to answer him in what we deem a respectful manner because he doesn't have an important job is nothing short of hilarious.

 

That poster shows up every once in a while and posts something utterly ridiculous. Must get a kick out of getting people's hackles up. :glare:

 

Sometimes I wish I didn't have such a good memory, but it comes in handy when I run into an old classmate. I'm always the one who remembers names. :tongue_smilie:

[JessReplanted]

I'm chiming in late here...(In response to the OP in the first post)

 

We use "Yes, please" & "No, thanks". I also require the children to say

"May I have _______ please?" When they are asking me for something.

 

We always taught & modeled politeness, but one day I suddenly decided that I was not going to get the kids what they wanted unless they talked to me appropriately. Life changed that day. ;)

 

They still need to be prompted (often), but they ask for things appropriately on their own at least half the time now.

 

So, if you are making a big change, I have seen the cold-turkey / all-or-nothing approach bring about results.

[Shellydon]

That poster shows up every once in a while and posts something utterly ridiculous. Must get a kick out of getting people's hackles up. :glare:

 

Sometimes I wish I didn't have such a good memory, but it comes in handy when I run into an old classmate. I'm always the one who remembers names. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

It is a good skill to have.

 

 

I got to use the :lol: smiley when I replied to her, I haven't gotten to use it before.

[JessReplanted]

I am guessing ( I don't know for sure, of course) that someone that felt strongly against being called ma'am would not have very much in common with me all the way around. My children refer to adult by Mr./Mrs./Dr./Ms, Lastname as well, and as a family, we would be very uncomfortable around someone that insisted on children calling them by their first name.

 

Similarly, how would you feel if I insisted your children call me by my last name and answered yes/no ma'am?

 

FWIW, I have friends with varying ideas of what is appropriate. My kids call my good friend Miss (first name),(and her kids address me the same way) because that is her standard. With other friends, we all just use first names though. If I had a true friend in my life, I certainly would not be willing to un-friend her over such a small issue.

[beaners]

I'm chiming in late here...(In response to the OP in the first post)

 

We use "Yes, please" & "No, thanks". I also require the children to say

"May I have _______ please?" When they are asking me for something.

 

We do please and thank you (excessively), but not sir and ma'am here.

 

We also do the Miss _____ thing.

 

If the tone and attitude are pleasant, I am happy. I will be upset if there is whining, demanding, or snottiness, regardless of the words being used.

 

For the OP, I'd just use a quick scripted reply when you don't hear what you want. "Remember, we are going to be speaking to each other respectfully now. Can you say that again with the words we've been talking about?"

[DianeW88]

:iagree: Another West coaster here. I only ever use Sir or Ma'am when I'm addressing a stranger.

 

I don't know of *anyone* who requires this of their children around here. I have some extended family that require it of their children, and frankly they parent VERY differently from me--I find some of their techniques bordering on abusive, so the whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I have to remind myself that not everyone who requires this of their kids is parenting this way, it's just that it's been almost my only exposure to it, KWIM?

 

I mostly get called Mrs. Lastname around here. Or 'Sister Lastname' if they are of the same faith. I've encountered a few kids who call me by my first name but it doesn't bug me.

 

:iagree: All my children's friends call me by my first name or "Sister Lastname" (if they're also LDS). Sir or Ma'am screams "you are an old lady" or "I am being very sarcastic and calling you this because I think you are a total *insert bad word here*." And, the whole "Miss Firstname" just reminds me of Romper Room. I feel like it's too "pre-schoolish". Another Westerner here, so I guess it's just not the way things are done out here.

 

Also, to call one's parents "sir" or "ma'am" seems very authoritarian and unloving to me. It would make me absolutely shudder to hear a child address their parents in that fashion. Just my 2 cents.

Edited April 17, 2011 by DianeW88

[Karen in CO]

We have decided DS (5) needs to start answering us with "yes ma'am" and "yes sir". Anyone else teach their kids to respond to them this way? I don't mean just to a random stranger, but actually to you and dh? How do you teach it? Just by prompting? We know *no one* who teaches their kids this (even though we live in the South!) but we think it will be a good change.

 

Any thoughts or insights on how to make this change happen would be much appreciated...

 

My questions are how to you speak to them and why do you want them to speak to you this way?

 

I grew up with yes ma'am/sir, but we were Southern, my dad was military. I still speak this way. Actually, I even speak this way in my professional life (Not always, but it is there). When I taught a co-op class, I spoke this way to the kids.

 

My theory has always been that you should model respect before you require it.

[Haiku]

My dd just started dating a boy who moved here from Nashville. He calls me ma'am and responds to everything I say with "Yes, ma'am" and "No, ma'am."

 

Today's conversation:

 

Him: May I speak with [dd]?

Me: She's not here right now. Is this [boy]?

Him: Yes ma'am.

Me: Well, I will tell her that you called when she gets home.

Him: Yes, ma'am. Thank you, ma'am.

Me: Remember, you can call me Tara if you like.

Him: Yes, ma'am.

Me: Did you call last night at 11 o'clock?

Him: Yes, ma'am.

Me: We would rather that [dd] not get phone calls after 9:30.

Him: Yes, ma'am. I'm sorry, ma'am.

Me: I'll tell [dd] you called. It was nice speaking with you.

Him: Yes, ma'am. Thank you, ma'am. It was nice speaking with you, too.

 

He certainly is mannerly, but that's what my friends would call a sh!t-ton of ma'ams. I think it would bother me a lot more if we hadn't had this big thread!

 

:D

 

Tara

Edited April 22, 2011 by TaraTheLiberator

[ByGrace3]

My dd just started dating a boy who moved here from Nashville. He calls me ma'am and responds to everything I say with "Yes, ma'am" and "No, ma'am."

 

Today's conversation:

 

Him: May I speak with [dd]?

Me: She's not here right now. Is this [boy]?

Him: Yes ma'am.

Me: Well, I will tell her that you called when she gets home.

Him: Yes, ma'am. Thank you, ma'am.

Me: Remember, you can call me Tara if you like.

Him: Yes, ma'am.

Me: Did you call last night at 11 o'clock?

Him: Yes, ma'am.

Me: We would rather that [dd] not get phone calls after 9:30.

Him: Yes, ma'am. I'm sorry, ma'am.

Me: I'll tell [dd] you called. It was nice speaking with you.

Him: Yes, ma'am. Thank you, ma'am. It was nice speaking with you, too.

 

He certainly is mannerly, but that's what my friends would call a sh!t-ton of ma'ams. I think it would bother me a lot more if we hadn't had this big thread!

 

:D

 

Tara

 

as the mother of the girlfriend, I would imagine he was "putting it on" for you as well! ;)

[Murphy101]

:lol: I love it, Tara! Calling for my dd? Yep. Pour on those sirs and ma'ams!;)

[Gailmegan]

I haven't read all the posts, but I'm chiming in anyway. I believe it is extremely important to teach our children to show respect to others. "May I please...?", "Would you please...?", "Yes, thank you.", "No, thank you.", etc. are all non-negotiables in our house. But here in the Phila 'burbs, NO ONE calls anyone ma'am or sir, unless the recipient of the address is 80 years old. Our boys call most adults "Mr" or "Mrs" last name, unless the individual has requested to be called something else. Some particularly close friends, however, have earned the title "Aunt" or "Uncle" first name. Our neighbors all have their children call the adults on our street "Miss" or "Mr" first name. I think they do it as a sign of friendship because they find using the last names is too formal for friends, but I was brought up using last names, so it drives me nuts.

[Gooblink]

My dd just started dating a boy who moved here from Nashville. He calls me ma'am and responds to everything I say with "Yes, ma'am" and "No, ma'am."

 

Today's conversation:

 

Him: May I speak with [dd]?

Me: She's not here right now. Is this [boy]?

Him: Yes ma'am.

Me: Well, I will tell her that you called when she gets home.

Him: Yes, ma'am. Thank you, ma'am.

Me: Remember, you can call me Tara if you like.

Him: Yes, ma'am.

Me: Did you call last night at 11 o'clock?

Him: Yes, ma'am.

Me: We would rather that [dd] not get phone calls after 9:30.

Him: Yes, ma'am. I'm sorry, ma'am.

Me: I'll tell [dd] you called. It was nice speaking with you.

Him: Yes, ma'am. Thank you, ma'am. It was nice speaking with you, too.

 

He certainly is mannerly, but that's what my friends would call a sh!t-ton of ma'ams. I think it would bother me a lot more if we hadn't had this big thread!

 

:D

 

Tara

 

Love it!

(note to ds: be respectful, but be sincere and be yourself. the parents of the girl you like are going to see right through your sh!t-ton of 'sirs' and 'ma'ams'.) :D

 

I grew up in the north and my extended family can.not.stand. to be called ma'am or sir (come to think of it - I don't think the guys give a flip, it's the women who get their knickers in a knot).

 

Here in TX, the southern kids are all ma'am and sir. Dh grew up in FL and it never occurred to him to teach our kids anything other than ma'am or sir.

 

My kids answer with 'yes ma'am' or 'yes sir' to adult questions, but if it offended anybody, I'd have them try to stop for that person. It's hard to break a habit, though, and they might still slip.

 

We do allow them to call very close adult friends by first name if that's preferred by the friend.

 

Basically, I'm more interested in teaching my kids to be sincere and caring of others, rather than insisting they behave by a set of rules. Don't misunderstand me, rules are excellent training ground, but real life skill is knowing when to bend or break them.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

For what it is worth: our firm has to "unteach" young adult (usually Southern) employees who consistently address clients and partners with "ma'am" or "sir" because it is viewed as subservient and unprofessional.

 

 

Am I the ONLY one who noticed this?? Perhaps what some see as "just rearing their children with good manners" could hamper them in a professional sense later in life?

[Gooblink]

Am I the ONLY one who noticed this?? Perhaps what some see as "just rearing their children with good manners" could hamper them in a professional sense later in life?

 

Meh, I can't believe it's a serious hiring decision factor.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Meh, I can't believe it's a serious hiring decision factor.

 

 

The PP who posted that wrote that they have to un-teach employees which, to me sounded like they DID get the job, but that the practice is something that they feel the need to discourage because it has certain connotations.

 

I didn't mean to imply that someone wouldn't get HIRED because of it.

[MischiefManaged]

Basically, I'm more interested in teaching my kids to be sincere and caring of others, rather than insisting they behave by a set of rules. Don't misunderstand me, rules are excellent training ground, but real life skill is knowing when to bend or break them.

 

I think that is a great sum up of Ester Maria's very well written post.

 

Kids are amazing -- they are able to pick up pretty quickly when and where to pour on the ma'ams/sirs/hats off and when they can simply BE respectful in their attitude and actions.

 

I would caution the OP to NOT *tie down* the terms in question as synonymous w/ respect itself, but simply as *another way* to be respectful.

 

While we don't require the ma'am/sir stuff, we do practice it sometimes, even w/ each other. More in an offhand manner than anything, but that way if it comes up, they aren't caught off guard. One teacher will "test" kids by saying "hello Jane!" and only giving them a piece of candy if the kid replies "hello Mrs. X" ... a sweet smile and excited reply simply aren't "enough"....

 

and if a child had problems deferring to my wishes, I would consider it a lack of training on the parent's part: a lack of training for *the real world.*

 

I would likely respond as Rosie suggested, lol. keep it lighthearted, but do make our preferences known.

 

The good news is that taking the time to really communicate with the parents usually helps too. So many people miss this basic part of courtesy: communicate and actually DISCUSS.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I think that is a great sum up of Ester Maria's very well written post.

 

I would caution the OP to NOT *tie down* the terms in question as synonymous w/ respect itself, but simply as *another way* to be respectful.

 

 

 

Well said. I ran a race last night with a woman (met AT the race, so not a longstanding relationship.) and I was SO glad that she had not been taught to 'ma'am/sir' people! She was LITERALLY half my age and it would have felt very awkward.

[kristinannie]

My son picked it up in karate. He has to call his teacher "Sir". So now he calls my husband and I that when we ask him to do something. I can't convince him to call me "ma'am." :lol:

[Murphy101]

Am I the ONLY one who noticed this?? Perhaps what some see as "just rearing their children with good manners" could hamper them in a professional sense later in life?

 

No. I noticed it and my dh says that is bunk most of the time.

 

The ONLY time either of us, and of course he has far more knowledge than myself in this area, have seen people purposely trained to not use sir/ma'am is retail and some call centers. Occasionally, medical staff. In those specific situations, the company has decided that they want to encourage a "friendly" or "personal" atmosphere for clients. It is NOT recommended in the actual businesses though, often in the same companies. Though there are exceptions, usually very small businesses vs corporate. When a low ranging employee in a corporation meets the VP, he absolutely uses sir/ma'am. At most, maybe Mr/Mrs/Ms Lastname.

 

Personally, I detest it when any business claims to be friends or personal with me. They aren't my friend and I'm not interested in getting personal. It is business. Act professional.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I do agree, Martha, that I don't like the "chummy" feel that some corporate cultures try to fake with their customers/clients.

 

You are trying to sell me something. Don't use fake titles/verbiage. It smacks of 'ingratiating'. (I'm not specifically talking about the use of ma'am/sir, but any 'kiss-up-ness'.)