Tiger Mom's daughter accepted into Harvard

[Teachin'Mine]

Tiger Mother’s daughter accepted into Harvard

 

 

 

Laura Donovan - The Daily Caller Laura Donovan - The Daily Caller – Mon Apr 4, 9:00 am ET

 

Amy “Tiger Mother†Chua, the Yale professor who enraged much of the United States’ parenting population earlier this year when she wrote a Wall Street Journal piece about her strict child-rearing techniques, can safely say her rigidity accomplished something.

 

According to Above The Law, Chua’s eldest daughter Sophia has been accepted to Harvard University. Young Sophia Chua-Rubenfeld received her acceptance letter earlier this week and “has already made up her mind that Harvard is where she’ll attend college.â€

 

Amy Chua received ample criticism in January, when she penned “Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior†in the Wall Street Journal and listed some of the restrictions she’d given her daughters. The rules included but were not limited to: not being allowed to attend sleepovers, have play dates, participate in school plays, complain about not being able to do school plays, get anything less than an A, play any instrument other than the piano or violin, or opt out of playing the piano or violin.

 

Catherine Connors, a writer and award-winning parenting blogger, told The Daily Caller in January that Chua’s parenting decisions are “beyond extreme†and could make children fall ill.

 

“When I heard about this article, my first reaction was that this had to be satire,†Connors told TheDC. “But obviously, it wasn’t, so my second reaction was that this is a borderline abusive parenting style. If these kids are shamed and harangued into performing well, what you end up seeing is they end up being sick.â€

 

Others have opposed Chua’s methods and dubbed her abusive for name-calling her daughters and possibly bullying the young girls into perfection. But Sophia Chua-Rubenfeld herself stood up for her mom soon after the national outrage against Tiger Mother ensued.

 

In a letter to the New York Post titled “Why I Love My Strict Chinese Momâ€, new-Harvard bound cub Chua-Rubenfeld wrote, “Having you as a mother was no tea party. There were some play dates I wish I’d gone to and some piano camps I wish I’d skipped. But now that I’m 18 and about to leave the tiger den, I’m glad you and Daddy raised me the way you did.â€

 

Like most students who get into Harvard, Chua-Rubenfeld is no newbie to success. At 14, she made her Carnegie Hall piano debut. She also comes from a sharp family, as her Tiger Mother and father attended Harvard.

[Laura in CA]

Caitlin Flanagan in The Atlantic (someone on these boards posted a link to the article, "The Ivy Delusion," when it first came out):

 

As of this writing, her application is being read, I’m sure, at many of the top colleges. Almost certainly, she will be admitted to all of them, but I can guarantee she’s put these schools’ admissions officers in a swivet. Obviously, it is not their job to provide a referendum on child-rearing practices. But they know that admitting her will send a powerful message to a large community. If Sophia goes to Harvard next fall, a significant number of parents will say to themselves: The method works. Her matriculation to a top school will surely result in more children’s being forced to endure what she did. “Early on,” Sophia explains—with unintended poignancy—in her New York Post letter, “I decided to be an easy child to raise.” These seemed to be the options in her family: to submit quietly and avoid her mother’s wrath, as Sophia did, or to scream bloody murder and receive the brunt of it, as Lulu did. If the former choice is the one rewarded with the laurel of the Ivy League, then that institution’s role in our national life—not just as a group of eight universities, but as an idea about the nature of American excellence—may just about have run its course.

[gingersmom]

I"m so not impressed.

 

My niece was admitted at Harvard, Yale and several other Ivy League schools.

 

She does not have a Tiger Mom or Dad.

 

She had a completely normal childhood without all the Tiger Mom drama.

[Rebecca VA]

I read Tiger Mother last week and loved it! Amy Chua is a great person -- I'd love to have her as my best friend. I thought the reasoning behind her approach was very logical. True, she took it too far on occasion. But haven't we all gone overboard at times? Face it, if you had one child playing in Lincoln Center one night and the other child auditioning for Juilliard the next day, you'd go slightly out of your mind. By the end of the book she had been chastened and repented. There's a lot to love about Mrs. Chua. She's fanatically loyal to her entire extended family. She's extremely witty -- I was laughing through the entire book. And best of all, she's got a hot husband.

 

I'm appalled at people who liken Mrs. Chua to someone like AP Frank's mom (the villain of The Overachievers, who would sit behind her sons with a ruler as they studied until midnight and strike them if their attention wandered -- by the end of the book CPS had been called and her whole family had abandoned her). Mrs. Chua really got down in the trenches with her girls. She learned the material as thoroughly as they did and worked very hard to help them. She took extensive notes at every music lesson so that she could work intensively with her daughters. This is on top of her demanding job as a law professor and an author. She took over the responsibility for her daughter's dog so that Lulu wouldn't be burdened. This woman gave of herself every moment of the day.

 

So I'm thrilled to see that her methods have paid off for Sophia. I hope and expect that Lulu will do every bit as well, in her own way.

[Teachin'Mine]

I"m so not impressed.

 

My niece was admitted at Harvard, Yale and several other Ivy League schools.

 

She does not have a Tiger Mom or Dad.

 

She had a completely normal childhood without all the Tiger Mom drama.

 

 

I didn't post this article because I was impressed either. I thought it was an interesting follow up to the previous articles. I agree with the author's thoughts which Laura posted above. I think this outcome will likely mean that more children are subjected to the same. Yet I wonder if another outcome would have been right either. No easy answers, but no matter how accomplished she is and becomes, it's sad she had such a lousy childhood IMO. To my way of thinking there's nothing wrong with being driven, but that drive should come from within and not be forced upon a child with ridicule and such.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Teachin'Mine

[mcconnellboys]

And I read just last year about a girl who homeschooled on the road with her trucker mom getting admitted to one of the ivies, too. The great schools are seeking more diversity in their student body now days. Someone with a unique resume is just as likely to get in as someone who pushed all the right academic buttons....

[TracyP]

If anyone is interested 'tiger mom' did an hour on MN public radio last month. I was thoroughly impressed and found myself in agreement with most of what she said.

[speedmom4]

And I read just last year about a girl who homeschooled on the road with her trucker mom getting admitted to one of the ivies, too. The great schools are seeking more diversity in their student body now days. Someone with a unique resume is just as likely to get in as someone who pushed all the right academic buttons....

 

 

I loved the story about the girl going on the road with her trucker mom. I actually heard an interview with the daughter on NPR about 6 months ago. Really interesting!

 

God Bless,

Elise in NC

[LBS]

but I'm wondering something like this: are Tiger Mom's methods proven superior based entirely upon the acceptance of her eldest daughter into Harvard? Shouldn't there be some longer-reaching proof, or support of her methods? The daughter's letter is no proof at all to me: she is still totally under her mother's influence (and control), right?

 

Did I miss something?

[Jeanine in TX]

I liked the book Tiger Mom.

 

HOWEVER, given that both parents attended Harvard, wouldn't Chua-Rubenfeld have been given preference for legacy status? She definitely seems qualified to attend, but her admitting process is a little easier than most other applicants.

[Teachin'Mine]

And I read just last year about a girl who homeschooled on the road with her trucker mom getting admitted to one of the ivies, too. The great schools are seeking more diversity in their student body now days. Someone with a unique resume is just as likely to get in as someone who pushed all the right academic buttons....

 

Yes - stories like hers are encouraging!!! :)

 

If anyone is interested 'tiger mom' did an hour on MN public radio last month. I was thoroughly impressed and found myself in agreement with most of what she said.

 

Thank you for the link Tracy - I'll have to check it out.

 

I loved the story about the girl going on the road with her trucker mom. I actually heard an interview with the daughter on NPR about 6 months ago. Really interesting!

 

God Bless,

Elise in NC

 

I think I read the transcript of that interview. It was definitely interesting!

 

I'm not sure what's niggling at me....

but I'm wondering something like this: are Tiger Mom's methods proven superior based entirely upon the acceptance of her eldest daughter into Harvard? Shouldn't there be some longer-reaching proof, or support of her methods? The daughter's letter is no proof at all to me: she is still totally under her mother's influence (and control), right?

 

Did I miss something?

 

I think it all depends on how you define success. If the mother's only goal was for her daughter to gain admission to Harvard, then she was successful. I'm sure that her daughter's life will be followed somewhat during college and afterward, and in those years, it may be more apparent whether her mother's methods were the right way to go. I can't imagine that there won't be some negative consequences. I'd also be very interested to hear how she chooses to raise her own children. Success has a price. I think these girls have paid dearly.

 

I liked the book Tiger Mom.

 

HOWEVER, given that both parents attended Harvard, wouldn't Chua-Rubenfeld have been given preference for legacy status? She definitely seems qualified to attend, but her admitting process is a little easier than most other applicants.

 

Yes she would have. But I doubt that she would have been rejected had they not been alumni. Aside from academics, her musical accomplishment is outstanding.

[Negin]

I"m so not impressed.

My niece was admitted at Harvard, Yale and several other Ivy League schools.

She does not have a Tiger Mom or Dad.

She had a completely normal childhood without all the Tiger Mom drama.

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

I got my master's degree at Columbia (another Ivy League) and my parents are most certainly not Tiger parents.

Having gone to a state university (undegrad) and an Ivy League school (grad), I see very little difference between the quality of education in either place. Ivy League just carries more weight, impresses people more, and costs a whole heck of a lot more $$$.

[mom2paul]

I"m so not impressed.

 

My niece was admitted at Harvard, Yale and several other Ivy League schools.

 

She does not have a Tiger Mom or Dad.

 

She had a completely normal childhood without all the Tiger Mom drama.

 

 

:iagree:

[Ester Maria]

First of all, I do not agree with most of Amy Chua's parenting methods and they do appear somewhat extreme to my eyes - and I would not consider myself a lenient parent, particularly not academically! Her style comes across as unsuitable for our family and culture, our values and our principles.

 

Secondly, however, the whole book (which I, admittedly, only skimmed) is written in a tongue-in-cheek tone, which many people might have missed. If you focus on the main point - determination, not blaming others and other factors for your lack of success, high academic standards, etc. - and keep in mind a bit witty tone of the book, the whole thing appears before you in a slightly different light than the one created by the media, which took the book way too "literally".

 

Thirdly, I have much reservation for "big name" universities, because nowadays they are no longer a guarantee of quality. I have met a surprising number of much better prepared people who attended lesser known universities, as well as a certain number of academically disappointing "big names" alumni. And among those, ILs are definitely the least guarantee of quality in my experience. Getting accepted, or even graduating from a "big name" university is not the ultimate arbiter of anyone's academic - or any other - quality. The picture is much more complex than that, and a piece of paper has, to me personally, never be a goal, but more like a means. That being said, I am happy for Amy Chua's daughter to be accepted to an institution she is obviously suited to attend, and as long as her mentality is learning in a broader sense than acquiring a set of formal recognitions, boy, is she going to succeed and come a long way in her life. Great to see. ;)

[4wildberrys]

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

I got my master's degree at Columbia (another Ivy League) and my parents are most certainly not Tiger parents.

Having gone to a state university (undegrad) and an Ivy League school (grad), I see very little difference between the quality of education in either place. Ivy League just carries more weight, impresses people more, and costs a whole heck of a lot more $$$.

 

 

Thanks for saying this! I keep hearing this, and it's nice to hear it from someone who has BTDT.

 

As far as Amy Chua and her dd getting into Harvard---good for her. If that's what floats their boat--great :tongue_smilie: But honestly, I'm not impressed, though, because I don't hold Ivy's in such high regard as I was raised to...

[FaithManor]

Two things come to mind:

 

A. I've got family members that attended the ivies and while my alma mater was not ivy, but HIGH top tier LAC, none of us needed a parent that used verbally abusive techniques to get us there. So, I do not equate her "stellar" parenting skills to her daughter's admittance to Harvard.

 

B. I have met far more "ivy" grads that are nothing more than really good robots, than I have ones that are creative problem solvers. I've met quite a few! You can't be in the piano performance business and not rub shoulders with a lot of ivy folk. My impression was that many of them spent so much time jumping hoops to get into the ivies, to play the political game of the ivies, etc. that somewhere along the way, they lost all sense of individuality. I know that sounds harsh, but I think the environment is such that while the graduation rate may be high, the "graduate with self still intact" rate may be quite low. That's just my impression and certainly not any kind of meaningful scientific poll. Though dd would be an excellent candidate for Harvard Med, I have to say I am not encouraging her at all. She is such a profoundly, special person....unique, creative, intuitive, and an amazing problem solver. Something about Harvard just makes me think they will do their level best to drum it out of her and make her over into their "mold". Again, just a mommy intuition that isn't based in any hard and true fact.

 

I hope that Americans do not take Sofia Chua's admission to Harvard as a "nod" to adopt her parenting style as if it will guarantee success for their children. It seems that many people jump on bandwagons far too quickly these days. And I hope I haven't offended anyone. I did not intend to. These are just my impressions from experiences and from really, more recent grads say in the last two or three years.

 

Faith

Edited April 5, 2011 by FaithManor

[OLG]

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

I got my master's degree at Columbia (another Ivy League) and my parents are most certainly not Tiger parents.

Having gone to a state university (undegrad) and an Ivy League school (grad), I see very little difference between the quality of education in either place. Ivy League just carries more weight, impresses people more, and costs a whole heck of a lot more $$$.

 

You nailed it, Negin!!!!

[1Togo]

One lovely part about this story is that Tiger Mom's daughter said she lived 110% percent (or something to that effect) because of what her mother did for her. If our daughter says that about me at the end of our homeschool journey, I will be thrilled.

Edited April 5, 2011 by 1Togo

[Negin]

Two things come to mind:

A. I've got family members that attended the ivies and while my alma mater was not ivy, but HIGH top tier LAC, none of us needed a parent that used verbally abusive techniques to get us there. So, I do not equate her "stellar" parenting skills to her daughter's admittance to Harvard.

B. I have met far more "ivy" grads that are nothing more than really good robots, than I have ones that are creative problem solvers.

I hope that Americans do not take Sofia Chua's admission to Harvard as a "nod" to adopt her parenting style as if it will guarantee success for their children. It seems that many people jump on bandwagons far too quickly these days.

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Brilliant and very well said. :)

[Rebecca VA]

Did any of you actually read the entire book?

 

Did you read the article that Sophia wrote praising her family, and especially her mother, for giving her a great start in life? There's a photo of her standing proudly, with a twinkle in her eye, ready to take on the world. She doesn't look beaten down and shamed. She certainly doesn't look damaged in any way. She looks like a girl who knows what she wants and has the capability to go out and get it.

 

I realize that not every Ivy League student is going to excel in life. I read a book last year about how eager the Ivies are to admit celebrity children, children of the wealthy and powerful, and young sports stars. There are tons of books and articles which argue the case that smaller, more personal colleged do a better job of educating students. I would hope people have the sense to read these materials before plopping down hundreds of thousands of dollars for their children's higher education. But if Sophia wants to go to Harvard for whatever reason, then why begrudge that to her?

 

To go back to Mrs. Chua's parenting style: When did working intensively with one's children, holding high standards, praising effort, and insisting on loyalty to family become bad things? They are the tools that every successful culture has used to build itself up. I know few children who are willing to work hard and excel on their own initiative.

[ChiMomNP]

The problem I see is that it discounts the role the parent's legacy, careers, and networking played into her admission. The mother's book, her TV appearances, her being a Yale professor and a Harvard grad probably had far more to do with her daughter's admission than her GPA. If she had not had all those "extras" going for her, she'd likely be one of the thousands(with similar or better GPA and/or talents) who have been rejected from an Ivy this year. I think the mother "worked" the Ivy system to her full advantage. I'm sure she knew exactly what she was doing writing and promoting the book when she did.

[Robin in DFW]

thousands of other students get into Ivy League schools without having had this woman for a mother...many have the extreme opposite.

 

As for the book...I haven't read it, nor have I seen the pictures of the daughter...BUT, considering all the control the mother has had in the past, I'm sure the mother's seal of approval had to be on the book before it went to the printer...I doubt she would have allowed anything negative to be written or published.

 

I did follow her articles early on and watched some news programming about her. I don't agree with her methods which is why I stopped following the reports.

jmho...no tomatoes please...

Edited April 7, 2011 by Robin in DFW

[Stacy in NJ]

there's a pretty gross misunderstanding of who she (the tiger mom) actually is and how she parents here in this thread and elsewhere.

 

Folks here seem to have decided into which category she belongs and judged her according to conventional wisdom. You'd think as homeschoolers, and especially classical homeschoolers, we'd use a little more caution about jumping to conclusions, particularly as it relates to parenting and education.

 

Anywho....

 

I agree with you Rebecca. :001_smile:

 

Did any of you actually read the entire book?

 

Did you read the article that Sophia wrote praising her family, and especially her mother, for giving her a great start in life? There's a photo of her standing proudly, with a twinkle in her eye, ready to take on the world. She doesn't look beaten down and shamed. She certainly doesn't look damaged in any way. She looks like a girl who knows what she wants and has the capability to go out and get it.

 

I realize that not every Ivy League student is going to excel in life. I read a book last year about how eager the Ivies are to admit celebrity children, children of the wealthy and powerful, and young sports stars. There are tons of books and articles which argue the case that smaller, more personal colleged do a better job of educating students. I would hope people have the sense to read these materials before plopping down hundreds of thousands of dollars for their children's higher education. But if Sophia wants to go to Harvard for whatever reason, then why begrudge that to her?

 

To go back to Mrs. Chua's parenting style: When did working intensively with one's children, holding high standards, praising effort, and insisting on loyalty to family become bad things? They are the tools that every successful culture has used to build itself up. I know few children who are willing to work hard and excel on their own initiative.

[Robin in DFW]

I am not judging her...just disagreeing with her methods for MY family. I have highly motivated kids that love to do well and enjoy their schooling. For MY kids, I don't think the constant pressure would work...it would only turn them off.

 

I had a mother who constantly criticized my endeavors, I could never do a good enough job or make a good enough grade. I did not marry a good enough guy or raise my kids the way they should have been...the pressure from her was unbearable and it's all I remember....must do better, must do better, must do better...

 

I'm just disagreeing with her based on MY family's needs.

 

That is all...

[Rebecca VA]

Robin, I would love to have had a Tiger Mother. The very thought of someone having cared enough about me to sit in on my (feeble) piano practices, go over homework with me, and attend my performances makes me melt. I look at the photo of Sophia and think how fortunate she is to have a mother who cares so intensely about her future.

 

Really, you should read the book. It's so funny. I was reading through it quickly today before taking it back to the library and bursting out laughing with every page I read. Amy Chua is brilliant.

[Laura in CA]

I realize that not every Ivy League student is going to excel in life. I read a book last year about how eager the Ivies are to admit celebrity children, children of the wealthy and powerful, and young sports stars. There are tons of books and articles which argue the case that smaller, more personal colleged do a better job of educating students. I would hope people have the sense to read these materials before plopping down hundreds of thousands of dollars for their children's higher education. But if Sophia wants to go to Harvard for whatever reason, then why begrudge that to her?

 

To go back to Mrs. Chua's parenting style: When did working intensively with one's children, holding high standards, praising effort, and insisting on loyalty to family become bad things? They are the tools that every successful culture has used to build itself up. I know few children who are willing to work hard and excel on their own initiative.

 

:iagree:

 

I'm considered a "tiger mom" by some of my fellow homeschoolers who have decided they don't want to "play the game." My kids are happy and well-adjusted; they just have been nudged by me to a slightly higher standard, and have jumped through a few more hoops (SATs, APs). I see this, as Amy Chua does, as opening doors for them and giving my kids more opportunities. As I posted in another thread, some of my hs'ing friends, by refusing to "play the game," have closed off all options for their kids except CC-and-eventual-uni, or just working straight out of high school. Those are fine, viable options, but to have those as your only options??

 

(I know most parents on this board are between the two extremes!)

 

Both of my kids would rather ride their bikes around town with their friends all day instead of study ... but there are no scholarships for that :001_smile:

 

Robin, I would love to have had a Tiger Mother. The very thought of someone having cared enough about me to sit in on my (feeble) piano practices, go over homework with me, and attend my performances makes me melt. I look at the photo of Sophia and think how fortunate she is to have a mother who cares so intensely about her future.

 

 

There were some heartbreaking posts on the General Board when the WSJ article by Amy Chua first came out --- by people who wish their parents had cared even a tiny bit.

[FloridaLisa]

I read the book. Chua has much to add to the discussion on how to help your children rise to a higher standard, above the default level and mediocrity prevalent today. I took several things away from the book -- probably the most important being that it takes a lot of work and investment for the parent to work alongside the child to help them get to that higher level. That's admirable.

 

But, there was so much in her parenting that was not admirable. What stuck most was the lack of dignity. Her lack of dignity in throwing tantrums and screaming fits -- not to mention the manipulation -- to get the compliance/result she wanted. And, even more cringe-worthy: the lack of dignity she had for her daughters to yell and scream and threaten at them like that.

 

And, yes, the book was written sarcastically, That made it worse in my eyes. That she laughed about it all. Yuck. No thanks. The title says it all. Her relationship with her daughters was an all out battle.

 

I found Top of the Class much more reasonable and balanced. In fact, the authors, Korean sisters, use the final chapter to caution against Asian parenting that's gone too far.

 

Lisa

 

ETA: Chua's own work ethic, which became clear by putting pieces together in the book, astounds me! If I even had 1/3 of her energy and work ethic. She certainly practices what she expects of her dds. A full professor, putting in hours and hours with her kids, while writing, traveling and speaking on the side. That was a huge insight.

 

ETA II: One more thing, lol. I'm happy Sophia got in to Harvard. Goodness knows this girl who "early on decided to be an easy child to raise" worked hard and deserves it.

Edited April 7, 2011 by FloridaLisa

[Robin in DFW]

"early on decided to be an easy child to raise"

 

 

...because she probably realized at an early age it was much easier to do her mother's bidding than not...

 

...just guessing here, but it looks like the daughter figured out how to play the game, too...

[Osmosis Mom]

The problem I see is that it discounts the role the parent's legacy, careers, and networking played into her admission. The mother's book, her TV appearances, her being a Yale professor and a Harvard grad probably had far more to do with her daughter's admission than her GPA. If she had not had all those "extras" going for her, she'd likely be one of the thousands(with similar or better GPA and/or talents) who have been rejected from an Ivy this year. I think the mother "worked" the Ivy system to her full advantage. I'm sure she knew exactly what she was doing writing and promoting the book when she did.

 

I totally agree with this. The book was a preemptor to getting public attention to her daughters so they would have a better chance at getting accepted.

[FaithManor]

First of all, I do not agree with most of Amy Chua's parenting methods and they do appear somewhat extreme to my eyes - and I would not consider myself a lenient parent, particularly not academically! Her style comes across as unsuitable for our family and culture, our values and our principles.

 

Secondly, however, the whole book (which I, admittedly, only skimmed) is written in a tongue-in-cheek tone, which many people might have missed. If you focus on the main point - determination, not blaming others and other factors for your lack of success, high academic standards, etc. - and keep in mind a bit witty tone of the book, the whole thing appears before you in a slightly different light than the one created by the media, which took the book way too "literally".

 

Thirdly, I have much reservation for "big name" universities, because nowadays they are no longer a guarantee of quality. I have met a surprising number of much better prepared people who attended lesser known universities, as well as a certain number of academically disappointing "big names" alumni. And among those, ILs are definitely the least guarantee of quality in my experience. Getting accepted, or even graduating from a "big name" university is not the ultimate arbiter of anyone's academic - or any other - quality. The picture is much more complex than that, and a piece of paper has, to me personally, never be a goal, but more like a means. That being said, I am happy for Amy Chua's daughter to be accepted to an institution she is obviously suited to attend, and as long as her mentality is learning in a broader sense than acquiring a set of formal recognitions, boy, is she going to succeed and come a long way in her life. Great to see. ;)

 

Thank you for saying this.

 

Also, I'd like to point out that while her daughter's musical accomplishments are outstanding, Harvard is not a music school. I'm not saying they do not have decent music education, but it is not outstanding. Harvard is not where one goes if you have that kind of talent and want a career in music...New England Conservatory, Julliard, Oberlin, Cincinnati School of Music, Eastman, several of the top tier 1 LAC's, Berkley, etc. So, while everyone may assume that her musical abilities were a key factor in her acceptance to Harvard, I can tell you that it was not of paramount importance. Yes, they do like to see someone who pursues a talent to a high level, the reality is that at Harvard her academics combined with her parents position as alumni, were much bigger factors. I've personally known musicians of far lower quality than the Chua girl who got into the Ivies on much less musical accomplishment and it was because of other outstanding extra-curriculars - many of which were unusual (not the normal extras for American high schoolers to have) coupled with academics. Debate, rarer sports such as rowing, equestrian, community volunteer work (highly prized if there are some awards/recognition from a national group involved...American Red Cross to name one), these types of activities get the admins' attention when combined with all of the right academic accomplishments.

 

Let me put it to you this way, when was the last time you heard of the winner of the Van Cliburn Concerto Competition, or other such music competitions, hailing from an Ivy? You are more likely for the odd winner from a non-conservatory, hailing from an awesome LAC or even a state school - the European conservatories of course also dominate the scene and we are seeing the emergence of some great musicians out of Asian schools...they are really pooring the pressure on our great music institutions - not the ivies.

 

So, I wouldn't assume that Mrs. Chua's methods for extracting virtuoso work from her daughters, is a driving factor in her eldest's acceptances now to Yale and Harvard. Yes, they would be impressed. No, not as big a deal as you think. Believe it or not, there are a lot of students applying to the ivies who perform at that level on instruments (and practiced to the bone without a "tiger mother" pushing them, in sports, in academics, etc.

 

Actually, I think of greater interest to them would be the fact that Miss Chua was blessed to participate in so much international travel and in the course of her education, have master classes in foreign locales...extensive international travel is one thing that does capture their attention. Then again, no matter what, there is the issue of legacy admits. Despite all of that, she is a superstar student and she deserves any accolades and recognition she receives, but she has worked, very, very hard.

 

I do think Ester Maria is correct that not everything in the book was meant to be taken on face value.

 

Faith

[Bluegoat]

I think being an involved parent who pushes your kids to do well can be ok - though it depends on the kids. It takes some discretion - not all kids respond well to that. Without a pretty deep respect for them as people I think it is likely to go wrong.

 

I think imposing your own vision on your kids life is different and wrong.

 

What if the girl had wanted to pursue carpentry, or farming? I don't see her mom supporting that, when she wouldn't even support, say, guitar over piano or violin (and even if that is a rather tongue in cheek statement I think the basic point that she set out what she wanted for their lives holds.)

 

I don't really get the Ivy League thing either. They were not schools that were considered to have a good reputation in my area of study when I was a student - in earlier years yes but not recently. Pretty much the view was they produced graduates that were great at languages but nothing else.

 

I find the determination to get into schools based only on their status as "Ivy League" weird. It seems to indicate a preference for appearance over actual accomplishment.

[Dmmetler]

I'm guessing she's not majoring in music. I've taught a few kids with tiger-ish moms, and for them, music tends to be a means to an end. They want the skills that come from learning music as far as focus, concentration, practice, and so on go, plus the accomplishment to show off and for the eventual resume, but once they get into college, the goal is generally Medical school or some other high professional career (that's much better paid and more prestigious than teaching piano or playing 4th chair violin in a regional symphony) doing nothing with music until the day comes to walk their own 3 yr old into their first violin lesson.

[LuvingLife]

I think being an involved parent who pushes your kids to do well can be ok - though it depends on the kids. It takes some discretion - not all kids respond well to that. Without a pretty deep respect for them as people I think it is likely to go wrong.

 

I think imposing your own vision on your kids life is different and wrong.

 

What if the girl had wanted to pursue carpentry, or farming? I don't see her mom supporting that, when she wouldn't even support, say, guitar over piano or violin (and even if that is a rather tongue in cheek statement I think the basic point that she set out what she wanted for their lives holds.)

 

I don't really get the Ivy League thing either. They were not schools that were considered to have a good reputation in my area of study when I was a student - in earlier years yes but not recently. Pretty much the view was they produced graduates that were great at languages but nothing else.

 

I find the determination to get into schools based only on their status as "Ivy League" weird. It seems to indicate a preference for appearance over actual accomplishment.

 

Very well put, my parents direct my life, but do not force me to do things that I have no interest in doing. I have been interested in many things over the last 17 years of my life, andhave dropeed them. The only thing I have really stuck with is Art/Music, research, and volunteering, which they have no complaints over. I tried doing competitive sports, didn't enjoy it, and now bike with my friends. We race and have fun, we enjoy ourselves, my parents push, but stop if we show too much resistance. My mom is hard on us but to a point, and so is my dad. They let us make mistakes and we go to them to help solve them, we're never pushed, persuaded yes, but never to the extreme of a Tiger mom.

 

Everyone is different, but I would not enjoy having a Tiger Mom or Tiger Dad, I think I would have moved out a long time ago.;)

[MBM]

I think being an involved parent who pushes your kids to do well can be ok - though it depends on the kids. It takes some discretion - not all kids respond well to that. Without a pretty deep respect for them as people I think it is likely to go wrong.

 

I think imposing your own vision on your kids life is different and wrong.

 

What if the girl had wanted to pursue carpentry, or farming? I don't see her mom supporting that, when she wouldn't even support, say, guitar over piano or violin (and even if that is a rather tongue in cheek statement I think the basic point that she set out what she wanted for their lives holds.)

 

I agree. A lot of parents seem to live vicariously through their children. I'm not sure if this is Tiger Mom's case, but I've seen it happen more than once. For example, an acquaintence of my husband was expected to go to med school just like dear old dad. He did -- to please his overbearing father -- but after he finished, he decided to become a forest ranger. That's what he always wanted to be and what he still happily is today.

 

I don't really get the Ivy League thing either. They were not schools that were considered to have a good reputation in my area of study when I was a student - in earlier years yes but not recently. Pretty much the view was they produced graduates that were great at languages but nothing else.

 

I don't know about all of their departments, but Harvard's math courses are arguably some of the best, the Math 55 course in particular. I imagine they have strong and weak departments, though, like all colleges do.

 

Harvard and other Ivies are wonderful for some but not for all. Personally, I think it's best to find the right fit. Neither of my two older kids attended an Ivy as undergrads yet both were challenged and enjoyed their college experiences, and both got fantastic job offers while in school and are living their lives doing what they enjoy. Of course, plenty of Ivy grads do this as well.

 

For my youngest, we've set the academic standards high enough that they're a struggle for him, but if he can't meet them -- sometimes he can't -- he knows that he is very much loved anyway and that life will go on. I also think it's important for him to have time to chill out, explore and spend time with friends.

 

I do love Harvard Square, though. My husband and I are thinking of moving to the Cambridge area in a few years just because we like that vicinity -- all of Boston actually -- so much. :)

[stripe]

She herself admits that her husband was raised in a very laid back fashion and has almost the same career as her, so she can't believe her way is the only way. Her husband is Jewish and she is very open (and it's very obvious) that Jewish people in general are well educated and have good incomes in good jobs. So clearly Jewish mothers have something going for them, at least as much as Chinese mothers, although Chua herself is Chinese-American.

 

The one piece of advice she has that I think is excellent is not to underestimate your kids, and have high expectations of them. But I found her approach revolting, and I know people raised like that in Asian American families.

 

Here's what angry asian man had to say :

 

On April 2, Chua revealed on her Facebook page that her daughter Sophia Chua-Rubenfeld had earned a spot at Harvard. And while she was quick to praise her strict parenting regime of no sleepovers and no television when defending her controversial book Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother in January, Chua seems to have retracted her claws since then. "I'm afraid I can't take any credit," Chua wrote in an e-mail to the Boston Herald. "I don't think my parenting had anything to do with it - I think Sophia did it 100% herself." And that was no easy feat. Harvard accepted a record low of 6.2% of applicants this year—selected from a pool of 35,000 students.

Wait a minute. That doesn't sound like the Tiger Mom we know and love. You wrote an entire book about your rigid parenting travails, the Chinese Way -- and a lot of people bought it -- and now you're saying your parenting had nothing to do with it? What a letdown. If I was Professor Chua, I'd be shaking my fist at the world, screaming, "See?! No sleepovers!"

[Mabelen]

I'm guessing she's not majoring in music. I've taught a few kids with tiger-ish moms, and for them, music tends to be a means to an end. They want the skills that come from learning music as far as focus, concentration, practice, and so on go, plus the accomplishment to show off and for the eventual resume, but once they get into college, the goal is generally Medical school or some other high professional career (that's much better paid and more prestigious than teaching piano or playing 4th chair violin in a regional symphony) doing nothing with music until the day comes to walk their own 3 yr old into their first violin lesson.

 

I agree. I see this also with art at my younger dd's school. The tiger moms have found art as yet another way of their children to participate in and succeed at competitions and contests, so now many are taking formal art lessons as an extracurricular. It's not for the sake of art or music but as a means to an end.

[FaithManor]

I agree. I see this also with art at my younger dd's school. The tiger moms have found art as yet another way of their children to participate in and succeed at competitions and contests, so now many are taking formal art lessons as an extracurricular. It's not for the sake of art or music but as a means to an end.

 

:iagree:

And as a professional pianist and former music teacher, I can say that it drives me batty! It wastes my time dealing with a student who is dragged into it instead of pooring myself only into those that end up passionately loving it! I want the passion, not the "I have to because my parent will scream bloody murder if I don't". For the record, in music, it is very difficult to extract musicality from those that are forced into it. Some will eventually manage it, Sophia Chua being one. But, most, will play technically very well, but like robots. Grrrrr.......

 

Lulu, I think is one child who never really developed any passion for music itself and it is one reason there was such a contrast in the achievement of Sophia vs. Lulu (who was technically amazing on her violin). Music must speak to the heart, come from the heart, and reach the hearts of he listener. I'll take a heart-felt, but not perfect performance any day over technical brilliance that is "droned" to the audience.

 

Faith

[butterflymommy]

Given that the ivies discriminate against asians in their admissions, I'm impressed. Her qualifications must have been truly outstanding.

[stripe]

I realized this thread is from last year!

[Teachin'Mine]

I realized this thread is from last year!

 

Yup. :lol: (There's been a new thread or two about or referring to this Tiger Mom - so probably some searching.)

 

Hope she's enjoying her education at Harvard and working on her own goals and not her mom's. :)

Edited February 2, 2012 by Teachin'Mine

[Roadrunner]

Some random thoughts. First of all, I read the book and I was very surprised at the public's reaction. It appears to me that the book is mostly about her passion for music. Some of you have pointed out that music for her is the means to an end and while it might be true, reading through the pages makes it difficult not to see the passion Amy has for music. I don't think it's must a tool for her, I really don't.

Also, there is very little about academics in the book. Frankly I don't recall her even mentioning academic homework at all. I remember thinking how interesting it would be to know how much time those kids spent reading or doing homework.

I went to a highly specialized music school from the age of five and then studied at one the top schools. There is nothing about the description of music practice in the book that made me surprised (sure her yelling and screaming isn't a norm and on many occasions could have been avoided). I practiced about 3 hours a day at the age of 5-6 and that was the norm. In college it was more like 6 to 8 hour practice sessions. Abusive? Hardly. That's what it takes.

My impressions from reading that book is that Amy hoped her kids would build a career in music, but they chose not to. For those of you who think Sophia is in some way damaged, check out her blog. tigersophia.blogspot.com A quick read through some of her entries reveals a smart, funny young women.

As far as Ivy schools go, I have mixed feelings. Unfortunately I agree with Ester Maria that the quality of education isn't what it's cracked up to be. On the other hand just having the paper is enough to open many doors in life. I know it's not the only way. I am just saying that it helps, in some cases helps a lot. Ivys also seem to be the places to acquire contacts. So many of my friends have achieved so much in life just because of the network of friends they have from Ivys.

I teach piano to my 6 year old and he only practices (more like has daily private lessons) for 20 minutes a day. Why? many reasons, among them my lack of spine, a type Amy seems to possess.

 

Also, much of the outrage about Amy is focused on several incidents described in the book. While it makes for a "good" read (I meant the type that sells books), I doubt their daily lives contained that much drama.

[Beth in SW WA]

I teach piano to my 6 year old and he only practices (more like has daily private lessons) for 20 minutes a day. Why? many reasons, among them my lack of spine, a type Amy seems to possess.

 

Also, much of the outrage about Amy is focused on several incidents described in the book. While it makes for a "good" read (I meant the type that sells books), I doubt their daily lives contained that much drama.

 

My girls practice their instruments for 30 min/day. That's plenty for me.

 

I admire & respect Amy Chau. She gives a voice to many parents who feel the same way. I would not have pushed so hard -- but I don't blame Amy for wanting what she deems best for her children.

 

We both have Chinese daughters -- yet mine are 100% 'Western' in their upbringing. Music and academics are important to dh & me AND our children.

 

I loved the book and the video clips I have watched of Amy and her husband.

 

Slightly OT...Dd7 plays violin and piano (and she reminds me a bit of Lulu). She doesn't have fingers on her right hand so it has been a thrill to find a piano teacher who can teach her appropriately. This video of a Chinese girl playing with only one hand really inspired dd to play. (My dd's hand looks like hers.) Plus, she wanted to play piano like all her siblings.

[Heather in WI]

I read the book and I was very surprised at the public's reaction.

 

:iagree:

 

It made me cringe, laugh, sympathize, and think. I can't imagine doing as much as she did with her children while working and living long distance from my spouse for a long period of time!

 

Interestingly, my 9 yo and my 11 yo sons both read it on their own after flipping through it on our library return pile table at home. It was the stimulus for many great conversations. To this day any hard piece that comes up in piano lessons becomes their "Little White Donkey" for the week. ;-D

[Tohru]

I read Tiger Mother last week and loved it! Amy Chua is a great person -- I'd love to have her as my best friend. I thought the reasoning behind her approach was very logical. True, she took it too far on occasion. But haven't we all gone overboard at times? Face it, if you had one child playing in Lincoln Center one night and the other child auditioning for Juilliard the next day, you'd go slightly out of your mind. By the end of the book she had been chastened and repented. There's a lot to love about Mrs. Chua. She's fanatically loyal to her entire extended family. She's extremely witty -- I was laughing through the entire book. And best of all, she's got a hot husband.

 

I'm appalled at people who liken Mrs. Chua to someone like AP Frank's mom (the villain of The Overachievers, who would sit behind her sons with a ruler as they studied until midnight and strike them if their attention wandered -- by the end of the book CPS had been called and her whole family had abandoned her). Mrs. Chua really got down in the trenches with her girls. She learned the material as thoroughly as they did and worked very hard to help them. She took extensive notes at every music lesson so that she could work intensively with her daughters. This is on top of her demanding job as a law professor and an author. She took over the responsibility for her daughter's dog so that Lulu wouldn't be burdened. This woman gave of herself every moment of the day.

 

So I'm thrilled to see that her methods have paid off for Sophia. I hope and expect that Lulu will do every bit as well, in her own way.

 

:iagree:

 

I don't understand how some people judge another after reading a single article.

[Mommyfaithe]

Robin, I would love to have had a Tiger Mother. The very thought of someone having cared enough about me to sit in on my (feeble) piano practices, go over homework with me, and attend my performances makes me melt. I look at the photo of Sophia and think how fortunate she is to have a mother who cares so intensely about her future.

 

Really, you should read the book. It's so funny. I was reading through it quickly today before taking it back to the library and bursting out laughing with every page I read. Amy Chua is brilliant.

 

:iagree::iagree:A lot with this. I WISH someone cared enough about me...to believe in me...and push me to my best.....sigh.....

[Mommyfaithe]

My girls practice their instruments for 30 min/day. That's plenty for me.

 

I admire & respect Amy Chau. She gives a voice to many parents who feel the same way. I would not have pushed so hard -- but I don't blame Amy for wanting what she deems best for her children.

 

We both have Chinese daughters -- yet mine are 100% 'Western' in their upbringing. Music and academics are important to dh & me AND our children.

 

I loved the book and the video clips I have watched of Amy and her husband.

 

Slightly OT...Dd7 plays violin and piano (and she reminds me a bit of Lulu). She doesn't have fingers on her right hand so it has been a thrill to find a piano teacher who can teach her appropriately. This video of a Chinese girl playing with only one hand really inspired dd to play. (My dd's hand looks like hers.) Plus, she wanted to play piano like all her siblings.

 

This video was amazing.

[Roadrunner]

My girls practice their instruments for 30 min/day. That's plenty for me.

 

I admire & respect Amy Chau. She gives a voice to many parents who feel the same way. I would not have pushed so hard -- but I don't blame Amy for wanting what she deems best for her children.

 

We both have Chinese daughters -- yet mine are 100% 'Western' in their upbringing. Music and academics are important to dh & me AND our children.

 

I loved the book and the video clips I have watched of Amy and her husband.

 

Slightly OT...Dd7 plays violin and piano (and she reminds me a bit of Lulu). She doesn't have fingers on her right hand so it has been a thrill to find a piano teacher who can teach her appropriately. This video of a Chinese girl playing with only one hand really inspired dd to play. (My dd's hand looks like hers.) Plus, she wanted to play piano like all her siblings.

 

Thanks for the video!!! She is amazing

[mom2abcd]

Our daughter was accepted at Harvard, too, and I am NO Tiger Mom! LOL

 

Now she needs to decide if she's going there or not.

[Teachin'Mine]

Our daughter was accepted at Harvard, too, and I am NO Tiger Mom! LOL

 

Now she needs to decide if she's going there or not.

 

 

Congratulations on your daughter's acceptance!!!

[Hope in God]

Whoop de do- Harvard. I think that long standing emotional and mental health and the ability to grow into a well adjusted adult is more of an indicator of good parenting than the school a child gets accepted into. Is a performing monkey ever really free to be who they are? Can this child make her own choices in life or will she forever be her mother in another body?

 

My mom was a bit of a tiger mother to my sister (I was far too much trouble for her so I got off). I remember the first sound I heard in the morning was my sister practicing her piano for an hour often punctuated by crying. When we came home from school and my brother and I would run outside to play Star Wars with the neighbourhood kids my sister would have to stay inside and practice for another hour. My mom wanted her to beat all the litttle Asian kids in her Royal Conservatory exams. And she did. Every year she got first class honors in both theory and her peices. She doesn't play anymore. She is the only one of us kids that has not really been able to find her groove. She is a profesional student with a lot of student loans because I think that this is how she has been conditioned to understand approval. I, on the other hand, found that I was unwilling to earn parental approval through academics and the like and chose to forgo it altogether.

 

Tiger parenting does not consider the whole child but only the thin veneer on the outside.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Hope in God