I have a Very Controversial Question to ask... (cc)

[Aubrey]

so...if you're feeling full-moonish, don't come in here.

 

I didn't even know it was Controversial until dh stopped me mid-sentence at dinner, for the sake of small ears. When I told him...the rest...well, he gets this sparkly-eyed panicked look sometimes. It makes me laugh, but...he's usually serious. And way over-worried-imaginative about how people will react to my ideas. :001_huh:

 

You can still turn back. If you already don't like me, let me assure you, this idea will make smoke come from your ears. Don't read this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want to make a poster--a pretty big one. (I also want to blog about this, but dh says that in that format, it might be more palatable.) I want to title the poster "Verses We Don't Believe" & follow that with a list of the verses that we as Christians universally reject (at least, literally):

 

He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none.

Be content with your wages.

He will baptize you with...fire.

Woe to you who are rich, For you have received your consolation.

Woe to you who are full, For you shall hunger.

Woe to you who laugh now, For you shall mourn and weep.

Woe to you when all men speak well of you, For so did their fathers to the false prophets.

Give to everyone who asks of you.

From him who takes away your goods, do not ask them back.

Judge not, and you shall not be judged.

 

 

There are more, but I tried to limit this list to the least controversial ones. I'm assuming that there's no distinction between faith & obedience. I'm not even saying they're all *supposed* to be taken literally. But I found making the list to be extremely humbling and insightful, and I think having to walk past it daily would...be very good.

 

Yeah, there are some people who'd come into the house, take one look at the list, read its title literally (LOL), & leave. That seems like an extra benefit. ;)

 

And then, just so the list isn't without any grace or anything, it could end with:

 

With the same measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

 

How could this not be a humbling reminder to pray, to offer yourself to the Lord? Dh simply said that other people don't think like I do. :001_huh: Of course not. We both know that. That's not new & doesn't stop him from endorsing my other ideas.

 

But instead of reasoning w/ me, he asked what other projects I'm working on. :glare::lol:

 

If you hit me too hard, I'm letting 2yo pick my next password, & gosh, I'm going to regret that 5min later. ;) (I totally failed Board Break School, didn't I?)

[Jean in Newcastle]

I could argue hermeneutical techniques, but I doubt that's what you're really looking for. If the exercise of making the poster and reading it is insightful and helpful to you, then do it.

[ChristusG]

I have to say....I have no idea what you mean LOL.

 

Is this to be a reminder to people that even though we, as a Christian society, may "overlook" these verses in the Bible, they are still verses that should be followed?

 

Or are you saying we shouldn't believe those verses? Or YOU don't believe those verses?

 

Or.....I'm just confused LOL.

[OrganicAnn]

I think you should add the "why". Some will be more obvious that others. Is it something that happened suddenly or over time? How much of it is old testament vs new testament. I don't think a poster is the best vehicle for exploring the issues, but essays or blogs maybe.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

There is a hilarious Vicar of Dibley episode, somewhere in season one, probably, when David Horton is explaining to the Vicar why Jesus was a raving liberal who would never be allowed on the church council.

 

Same line of thinking.

[KristinaBreece]

I take it as though you want to remind your family to keep these ideas in the front of their minds-- as in, you WANT them to accept these literally, and the poster will help remind you to be more prayerful & giving in your attitude. Yes?

 

I like it.

[kchara]

I think she's saying they're verses that are quoted, but not actually followed. I'd have a few more to add to that, as well. ;) I think that's an awesome idea! I'd read a blog like that, for sure!

[Miss Sherry]

I have to say....I have no idea what you mean LOL.

 

Is this to be a reminder to people that even though we, as a Christian society, may "overlook" these verses in the Bible, they are still verses that should be followed?

 

Or are you saying we shouldn't believe those verses? Or YOU don't believe those verses?

 

Or.....I'm just confused LOL.

:iagree: I don't know what the OP is saying either. But sometimes it's a little hard to communicate online. But I suspect she may be saying what the other posters are thinking, that the verses are believed but not lived out, and should be.

To the OP. What is your question ? Also, why is it a big deal whether or not you make a poster with those verses ? Do you plan on making it for others to see or as a project for yourself ? Perhaps you are concerned about others reactions to it ? I guess I'm not really following your logic here.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Miss Sherry

[MamaT]

Aubrey, I totally get where you are coming from. My dh and I were looking at verses like that a few years ago and determined to each other to obey them, especially the one about giving when you were asked. The same day a man (homeless), knocked on our door and asked to sleep in our house. It was cold outside. He slept on our couch that night. We didn't sleep too much, though. :001_smile: He left before we were up the next morning and left us the most beautiful artwork - a pen drawing of praying hands.

 

Those verses are ones that are easy to push aside in our culture. I think your poster sounds like a wonderful idea.

[Mommy22alyns]

Is this sort of along the lines of the book Radical? (I haven't read it yet, only flipped through it.)

[FO4UR]

I get it. I like it.

 

We act on what we truly believe.

 

Paul's little ditty about doing what he does not want to do and not doing what he wants to do might make a good wrap around...picturing this...hmm...

[Aubrey]

I have to say....I have no idea what you mean LOL.

 

Is this to be a reminder to people that even though we, as a Christian society, may "overlook" these verses in the Bible, they are still verses that should be followed?

 

Or are you saying we shouldn't believe those verses? Or YOU don't believe those verses? Oh, gosh, NO! Neither of those things!

 

Or.....I'm just confused LOL.

 

Looking at all of these verses that we tend to glibly..."forget"...or maybe...make up "interpretations" for...ALL of them together...seem to make...almost a picture of Christ. And I find it ironic that in our day-to-day lives, we...reject Him. That's kind-of an extreme way to put it, but in the middle of all these verses, He actually says something to the effect of: Why do you call me Lord, Lord but do not do the things I tell you to do?

 

Do *I* believe all these verses? Well...I don't obey them.

 

SHOULD we sell all that we have & give it to the poor? I don't know, but I'm sure not going to tell you to do it unless I do it myself first.

 

Mostly, I think a list like this would help (me) to, uh, take the log out of my own eye first, sort-of? Keep my mouth shut sometimes when I want to tell dh what I think of someone else's Christianity? Because, you know, I'm good enough not to say what I think To. Their. Faces.

[Gooblink]

I totally get it. It's brilliant. And, yeah, I'll buy one.

[Aubrey]

Is this sort of along the lines of the book Radical? (I haven't read it yet, only flipped through it.)

 

Never heard of it.

[Peela]

Im not even Christian but I couldn't help peeking :)

 

I like it. As long as it isn't used to beat oneself up for not managing to live one's highest values all, or very much of the time.

 

But I do do a similar thing for myself and stick up sticky notes and laminated posters for myself of the values I truly want to live. Especially in the toilet where I have time to read them :) I like the reminders.

[Aubrey]

I think she's saying they're verses that are quoted, but not actually followed. I'd have a few more to add to that, as well. ;) I think that's an awesome idea! I'd read a blog like that, for sure!

 

Yeah, I don't know that that many people quote these verses, either, lol. Maybe in bits & pieces or out of context. Which, really, is all I'd be doing anyway. ;)

[Mommy22alyns]

Never heard of it.

 

 

Here it is:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1601422210/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1Y949BHJMVQRB4ER9BMA&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846

 

 

I do get what you're saying and I like it.

[ktgrok]

just don't start adding the verses about stoning children :001_huh:

[Aubrey]

I totally get it. It's brilliant. And, yeah, I'll buy one.

 

You know, it's funny--this is how the poster part of the conversation began. I said I wanted to sell them, dh gasped, & then I went on to say I was at least going to make one for us, & he sputtered.

 

You should see him now. :lol:

 

Bwahahaha. I LOVE that sparkly-eyed panicked look!

[Pink Fairy]

I've always struggled with the more radical demands of the gospels, and how to apply them to my life. Doesn't everybody? :tongue_smilie: Anyway, I think your idea beautifully highlights the incongruity between what we are called to and what we actually do.

[Aubrey]

just don't start adding the verses about stoning children :001_huh:

 

Remember, these are only verses that Christians *universally* reject. ;) :D

[jewellsmommy]

I think it's a fine idea.

[Aubrey]

I've always struggled with the more radical demands of the gospels, and how to apply them to my life. Doesn't everybody? :tongue_smilie: Anyway, I think your idea beautifully highlights the incongruity between what we are called to and what we actually do.

 

In my mind, it's not even necessarily about a huge guilt trip. Instead, it's about remembering to walk humbly w/ one's faith--to see how much there is that we either don't understand or don't follow or whatever.

 

If so many of Jesus' basic words are this hard to swallow, who are we to fight about Paul or the OT? Good gracious, it's not as simple as "believing the Bible."

[Teachaheart]

so...if you're feeling full-moonish, don't come in here.

 

I didn't even know it was Controversial until dh stopped me mid-sentence at dinner, for the sake of small ears. When I told him...the rest...well, he gets this sparkly-eyed panicked look sometimes. It makes me laugh, but...he's usually serious. And way over-worried-imaginative about how people will react to my ideas. :001_huh:

 

You can still turn back. If you already don't like me, let me assure you, this idea will make smoke come from your ears. Don't read this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want to make a poster--a pretty big one. (I also want to blog about this, but dh says that in that format, it might be more palatable.) I want to title the poster "Verses We Don't Believe" & follow that with a list of the verses that we as Christians universally reject (at least, literally):

 

He who has two tunics, let him give to him who has none.

Be content with your wages.

He will baptize you with...fire.

Woe to you who are rich, For you have received your consolation.

Woe to you who are full, For you shall hunger.

Woe to you who laugh now, For you shall mourn and weep.

Woe to you when all men speak well of you, For so did their fathers to the false prophets.

Give to everyone who asks of you.

From him who takes away your goods, do not ask them back.

Judge not, and you shall not be judged.

 

 

There are more, but I tried to limit this list to the least controversial ones. I'm assuming that there's no distinction between faith & obedience. I'm not even saying they're all *supposed* to be taken literally. But I found making the list to be extremely humbling and insightful, and I think having to walk past it daily would...be very good.

 

Yeah, there are some people who'd come into the house, take one look at the list, read its title literally (LOL), & leave. That seems like an extra benefit. ;)

 

And then, just so the list isn't without any grace or anything, it could end with:

 

With the same measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

 

How could this not be a humbling reminder to pray, to offer yourself to the Lord? Dh simply said that other people don't think like I do. :001_huh: Of course not. We both know that. That's not new & doesn't stop him from endorsing my other ideas.

 

But instead of reasoning w/ me, he asked what other projects I'm working on. :glare::lol:

 

If you hit me too hard, I'm letting 2yo pick my next password, & gosh, I'm going to regret that 5min later. ;) (I totally failed Board Break School, didn't I?)

 

I have not read any of the responses, but I just have to say that I think I totally "get" this. We like to talk the talk, but there are some parts of the walk that we tend to skip over or dance around. If we truly and completely believed those verses, we would walk in sincere obedience to them--even the difficult, inconvenient, and painful ones. Is that what you are getting at?

 

I do think that context is important, but if I understand the point you wish to make, I think it's a good one.

[Gooblink]

Is this sort of along the lines of the book Radical? (I haven't read it yet, only flipped through it.)

 

I just read Radical last month. It's very close to an ideal church that's "been on my heart" for a long time.

 

A couple of months ago our pastor did a message on creating a church that was different. Only, the things he talked about wouldn't, IMO, make much difference. So...when I got home I sent him an email outlining a church I felt would be really different:

 

1. One where the congregation believes God can and does still work impossible miracles and sees it happen weekly.

2. Where the congregation doesn't meet on Sunday to sit captive in an audience and according to the Order of Worship, but rather, we go OUT into the community in smaller groups and SERVE those who are hurt, tired, broken. Not sharing the gospel with words, but with action. Then, when we get together corporately, we share what miracles God has worked in changing lives.

3. A church that has a true discipleship program so that believers, old and new can learn to study and apply God's word, daily.

 

Anyhoo...he was excited about all my ideas, unfortunately, they don't fit in the business plan just yet. :glare:

[Aubrey]

I just read Radical last month. It's very close to an ideal church that's "been on my heart" for a long time.

 

A couple of months ago our pastor did a message on creating a church that was different. Only, the things he talked about wouldn't, IMO, make much difference. So...when I got home I sent him an email outlining a church I felt would be really different:

 

1. One where the congregation believes God can and does still work impossible miracles and sees it happen weekly.

2. Where the congregation doesn't meet on Sunday to sit captive in an audience and according to the Order of Worship, but rather, we go OUT into the community in smaller groups and SERVE those who are hurt, tired, broken. Not sharing the gospel with words, but with action. Then, when we get together corporately, we share what miracles God has worked in changing lives.

3. A church that has a true discipleship program so that believers, old and new can learn to study and apply God's word, daily.

 

Anyhoo...he was excited about all my ideas, unfortunately, they don't fit in the business plan just yet. :glare:

 

Yeah, when our last church decided that what they Really Needed to Do was repave the parking lot (ok, & plant some flowers & get new hymnals), I was, um...um...ah...I did not share the perspective.

[elegantlion]

I think it's a good idea, as long as it's a self-check and a teaching tool, not a whipping post, kwim.

 

I'd like an order of one, please. :D

 

You could turn it into a whole study. Go and read the verse in context, copywork, rewrite it in modern language. Like you need something else to do.:001_smile:

 

I'm going to borrow this if you don't mind.

[Aubrey]

I think it's a good idea, as long as it's a self-check and a teaching tool, not a whipping post, kwim.

 

I'd like an order of one, please. :D

 

You could turn it into a whole study. Go and read the verse in context, copywork, rewrite it in modern language. Like you need something else to do.:001_smile:

 

I'm going to borrow this if you don't mind.

 

No, no, not a whipping post: there are verses to prevent that. ;)

 

It's JUST about humility & perhaps, over time, making oneself open to the Holy Spirit's work on one's heart, if there's something one *should* be obeying.

 

But the Beatitudes look a lot different when you ask after ea one, "Do I believe that?" I find that more often than not, the answer (for me) seems to be a surprising NO.

 

Of course, then there's the question: what do we do with this knowledge? The only answer I know is to pray.

 

And maybe make another poster. It could be a kind of legal defense that pits contrary verses against ea other:

 

All have sinned & fall short of the glory of God.

If any man says he is without sin, he is a liar.

Little children, do not sin. Be holy as your Father in Heaven is holy.

 

Or something like that.

[Tangerine]

I am not a Christian, but I love this idea.

 

When I was a child, I was very familiar with the "give to who asks of you" passage and, as a child is wont to do, I took it pretty literally. I went to a Benny Hinn (and I realize that is its own can of worms) crusade with my mother. I watched all these people begging God for what they wanted/needed, with all the displays that go on in such a venue. I watched as the collection was taken up for the ministry of a very wealthy man. I then walked outside in the cold after the meeting, and watched as those same people flowed right past a panhandler. I know that it was a turning point in my journey toward leaving the church.

 

Christian, or not, we would be pretty well served by following a lot of verses you mentioned.

[Peek a Boo]

Paul's little ditty about doing what he does not want to do and not doing what he wants to do might make a good wrap around...picturing this...hmm...

 

:iagree:

 

we call that the Do-Be-Do-Be-Do passage. ;)

 

Aubrey, i think i get it too, and it's spot on. :)

[mhgillil]

I love your poster idea! I'm pretty sure my house (okay, most Christian houses) could seriously benefit from such a humbling reminder. Why not take it step further and rotate the verses on a weekly basis so that there is little chance of becoming "numb" to reading the verses?

[Aubrey]

I love your poster idea! I'm pretty sure my house (okay, most Christian houses) could seriously benefit from such a humbling reminder. Why not take it step further and rotate the verses on a weekly basis so that there is little chance of becoming "numb" to reading the verses?

 

Dh suggested just gluing a Bible to the poster, but I told him *that* would offend some people.

 

He says I take *him* too literally. ;)

 

But, really, to fit them all in, I think it would end up looking like one of those one-page plays of Shakespeare's:

 

Ok, maybe not *that* bad, but *full.*

[Teachin'Mine]

Aubrey I failed miserably at board break school too. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think your list is wonderful - you have a good heart!!! :)

[KnitWit]

Love it!

[mhgillil]

But, really, to fit them all in, I think it would end up looking like one of those one-page plays of Shakespeare's:

 

Ok, maybe not *that* bad, but *full.*

 

:iagree:

[Sputterduck]

And maybe make another poster. It could be a kind of legal defense that pits contrary verses against ea other:

 

All have sinned & fall short of the glory of God.

If any man says he is without sin, he is a liar.

Little children, do not sin. Be holy as your Father in Heaven is holy.

 

How are these contrary to each other?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Now that I actually understand what you were saying in the OP, sure, make your poster.

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I like it.

 

Regarding the book Radical linked to in a previous post, DH and I listed to the audiobook while on a road trip. Very convicting. I need to listen to it again.

 

All this reminded me of an awesome Francis Chan sermon on Youtube called Luke Warm and Loving It. If you haven't checked it out, you should.

[Swirl]

The same day a man (homeless), knocked on our door and asked to sleep in our house. It was cold outside. He slept on our couch that night. We didn't sleep too much, though. :001_smile: He left before we were up the next morning and left us the most beautiful artwork - a pen drawing of praying hands.

 

So what did you think? Hebrews 13:2 perhaps? I love stories that might be Hebrews 13:2. Someone should start a thread on that. :)

[Brenda in FL]

I might title it "Do I Really Believe These Verses?"

 

I get what you are trying to do though.

[Terabith]

Sounds great to me!