Supertechmom Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 VP is.......:confused: I"m unfamiliar with that abbreviation and can only think of veritas press. I am really tired of the whole " you're too Christian and you're not Christian enough" debate. We live right smack dab in the middle of that type of thinking and it stinks. When did God make any of them the judge on that? We get it every time we do something with conservative Christians. I'm not sure what they believe as they are all from the same denomination that I'm a member of. (but different churches) Their statement of faith reads like what my church believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Servin, are you asking Me? That was VF=Vision Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I'm not at all doubting SWB's view of the events but is there some way to get a link to what Ken Ham (or whoever) actually said about her? Here is but one of Ken Ham's "warnings" on Facebook Daisy. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supertechmom Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Servin, are you asking Me? That was VF=Vision Forum. Thanks! It's too late my eyes are crossing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ok, so I see in that link that Ken Hamm is talking about this Enns guy, but he does not mention SWB at all. I honestly do not know anything about this situation, but I think we need to provide actual links where Ken Hamm bashes SWB before making broad statements about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Ok, so I see in that link that Ken Hamm is talking about this Enns guy, but he does not mention SWB at all. I honestly do not know anything about this situation, but I think we need to provide actual links where Ken Hamm bashes SWB before making broad statements about him. Since you missed it here is the last section of Ham's warning: So sad--that this sort of teaching is now infiltrating the Homeschool movement. Peter Enns is involved (along with Susan Wise Bauer) is involved with the very liberal Biologos group and involved in now producing Bible curriculum for Homeschools. So please be warned. Ken The redundancy is his, and not a typo on my part. Bill Edited March 21, 2011 by Spy Car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supertechmom Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ok, so I see in that link that Ken Hamm is talking about this Enns guy, but he does not mention SWB at all. I honestly do not know anything about this situation, but I think we need to provide actual links where Ken Hamm bashes SWB before making broad statements about him. It's at the very bottom of the link from Spy car . It 's like a jab at the closing of his post. I missed it the first time too and had to reread the post before I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ok, so I see in that link that Ken Hamm is talking about this Enns guy, but he does not mention SWB at all. I honestly do not know anything about this situation, but I think we need to provide actual links where Ken Hamm bashes SWB before making broad statements about him. He does mention SWB's name towards the end. And apparently I am too slow to keep up with this thread.... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I guess I missed the reference. :glare: I need to investigate this a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Susan always has a grace and clarity I really enjoy. Great blog post. I hope you are feeling better soon, Susan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthiopianFood Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Here is but one of Ken Ham's "warnings" on Facebook Daisy. Bill :glare::glare::glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 SWB, your work is so important-you should know that just by the sheer numbers of people on both sides who are interested in it!! Don't give up! We need your voice in support of independent thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephanier.1765 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Here is but one of Ken Ham's "warnings" on Facebook Daisy. Bill That and the comments below make me sick to my stomach. :tongue_smilie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Here is but one of Ken Ham's "warnings" on Facebook Daisy. Bill Yuck. I wasn't planning on attending any of Ham's workshops, but all I can say is Yuck. I would consider myself a devout, conservative Christian. But one who still has some serious issues with the idea of a young earth and literal six day reading of Genesis. But more importantly, I don't think that it is a salvation issue. I think if this were such an essential part of salvation that it would be much more explicit in both the gospels and in Peter and Paul's testimonies. I'm actually struck by the similarity between the strife over the details of creation and the conflict between the monophysites and the chalcedonian views of the nature of Christ. I think that there should be room for Christians to say "I don't know" about some things without that endangering their belief in the salvation. (In other words, I can't recall seeing a timeline in any of the catechisms I've read. And I don't think that arguing about this is "majoring on the majors". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Yap away. There are a LOT more layers. Blog posts have to be short to be effective. Even that one was too long for truly good blogging. As long as you don't make conclusions about where people are with God, or pronounce blanket condemnations of books without reading them, or make personal attacks, disagreement is not only perfectly fine, but healthy. Fear of disagreement is part of what's wrong with the scenario I've been describing. SWB Please jettison the idea that blog posts are only good if they are short. I have increasingly turned to blogs as a form of new media that is replacing magazine articles. There is definitely room on the internet for longer, meatier blog postings too. [Note to self: Don't forget to swing by the Ken Ham table and ask them if they are selling SOTW or Telling God's Story, because I'm just so excited about buying them.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 SWB has a wonderfully delicious sarcastic side that I love desperately.:D To SWB - YOU GO, GIRL!:001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I'd also like to bring up the fact that not only is criticizing other speakers and vendors at the convention, inappropriate, I think it could be down right unethical. Ken Ham has also criticized Jay Wile for his stance of NOT judging other's souls and defending other speakers. AIG sells science curriculum. HMMMM....Mr. Ham criticizes Peter Enns for his Bible curriculum which is just basic orthodox/apostle's creed type teaching and AIG sells Bible curriculum for children. Mr. Ham criticizes SWB and he sells Diana Waring's history curriculum through the Answers Store. I have to tell you, this smacks of more than just theological disagreement and begins to "appear" to have monetary, competitive motivations. Now, I actually do not believe so lowly of Mr. Ham...I do think that he is misguided in thinking he is defending God or guarding God's kingdom by leveling unwarranted comments and condemnations of other speakers and curricula. Thankfully, God has taken it upon himself to deal with humankind's motivations for what they do and say; I do not have that burden. But, as a consumer of homeschool products, I must say that I do have to make judgment calls of a certain nature when choosing products and Mr. Ham has shot himself in the foot, so to speak, in terms of my consideration of AIG products. As a matter of fact, his snarky rhetoric almost guarantees that I will avoid products he endorses, as I do Vision Forum because of some of the outlandish and unjustified attacks made by the founder of that company against other authors. I also think that Mr. Ham should be very careful in treating homeschooling parents as if they cannot think for themselves. I, for one, do not need to be spoon-fed theology and worldview from any speaker. Sad to say, years ago I heard Ken Ham at a conference and really enjoyed his talks, but now, I will not attend a session of his again. Faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 That and the comments below make me sick to my stomach. :tongue_smilie: Ken Ham's comments are particularly chilling: ...anyone who encourages people/children to hear a person like Peter Enns who has such different view of 'inspiration' to conservative Christians and is a part of an extremely liberal Bible undermining organization (Biologos) needs to remember the verse of Scripture: ““But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.†(Mark 9:42 NKJV) Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLG Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 People!!! So infuriating and so short-sighted too. Here SWB is 'educating' w/o bias and all folks want to look for is bias against 'their' position. THis world is way too polarized! I really appreciated her historical view of rivalism and evangelizing. Oh, if only more of the world was truly educated we could have delightful discussions without the vitriol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJCMom Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I wonder if what was said at the convention is actionable? SWB doesn't seem like the type who would sue for monetary damages, but I wonder if what was said would at least warrant a cease and desist letter from her attorney? The fact that what was said was completely unethical is a given, but I wonder if it crosses the line into slander? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ken Ham's comments are particularly chilling: ...anyone who encourages people/children to hear a person like Peter Enns who has such different view of 'inspiration' to conservative Christians and is a part of an extremely liberal Bible undermining organization (Biologos) needs to remember the verse of Scripture: ““But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.†(Mark 9:42 NKJV) Bill Is he trying to incite a lynch mob? :001_huh: I read some of Ham's blog last night. He has a very skewed and narrow view of what makes a good/real Christian. I have no need for a Bible program, but I would buy Peter Enns's if I did just to spite people like Ham. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ken Ham's comments are particularly chilling: ...anyone who encourages people/children to hear a person like Peter Enns who has such different view of 'inspiration' to conservative Christians and is a part of an extremely liberal Bible undermining organization (Biologos) needs to remember the verse of Scripture: ““But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.†(Mark 9:42 NKJV) Bill Ewwww....the Bible has a lot to say about those who judge, as well. These incidents always make me sad. They are a large part (IMHO) of why many people are turned off from even exploring Christianity. It is wholely inappropriate for Christians to throw barbs at each other in this manner. I'm with SWB all the way.:001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ken Ham's comments are particularly chilling: ...anyone who encourages people/children to hear a person like Peter Enns who has such different view of 'inspiration' to conservative Christians and is a part of an extremely liberal Bible undermining organization (Biologos) needs to remember the verse of Scripture: ““But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.†(Mark 9:42 NKJV) Bill I think he needs to brush up on his Bible. Ephesians 4:8-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Titus 3:8-11 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men. But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayle in Guatemala Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 It irritates me when people "christianize" marketing. When these other speakers bash someone publicly because they feel that this person isn't christian enough, they are using that to sell their own stuff and that's just plain ridiculous. They are making things up and stirring up people so that they can make a sale of their own books, curriculum, what have you. Seriously, I buy what I want to buy that works for my dc and me. Period. Because I'm a christian, I tend towards christian curriculum but, I'm not opposed to using things in certain subjects that aren't overtly christian. It's too bad that these people have to be so petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I wonder if what was said at the convention is actionable? SWB doesn't seem like the type who would sue for monetary damages, but I wonder if what was said would at least warrant a cease and desist letter from her attorney? The fact that what was said was completely unethical is a given, but I wonder if it crosses the line into slander? "Warning" people not to buy a competitor's product may be illegal under commerce laws. I agree SWB doesn't seem like the type to sue, but I think it's entirely possible that she has grounds. I and a few others bought Telling God's Story because it was brought to our attention by Ken Ham's rantings. It might be difficult to prove damages if many people have bought the book and/or workbooks because of comments made by Ham and others. :tongue_smilie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Ken Ham's comments are particularly chilling: ...anyone who encourages people/children to hear a person like Peter Enns who has such different view of 'inspiration' to conservative Christians and is a part of an extremely liberal Bible undermining organization (Biologos) needs to remember the verse of Scripture: ““But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.†(Mark 9:42 NKJV) Bill Spycar, THAT's SCARY! Seriously, is he insinuating that Dr. Enns is some evil perp that should commit suicide??? WOW! I mean, just WOW! "I am standing here beside myself!!" (movie line from "Short Circuit") I'd like to say to Mrs. Mungo, "Preach it sister!!" How do these people live? The stress of it all.......maybe it isn't stressful for them. But, honestly, if I had to spend the better part of my day judging people and deciding who the "real" Christians are - who gets in and who doesn't - I'd be a basket case. Not my job, not my job, not my job....Thank the good Lord in heaven, NOT MY JOB! The lack of love, grace, courteous speech, forbearance, and such is so deeply disturbing. Oh and Mr. Ham, if there is any chance that anything from this thread will be relayed to you, I have a word of caution...NO one is perfect. We have all fallen short of the glory of God so be very, very careful whom you judge on the basis of Mark 9:42...you aren't a perfect scientist, a perfect parent, or a perfect theologian either. Scripture has no room for argument on this point. You should consider that you may have caused some little one to go astray, to be frightened of the Gospel by your extreme rhetoric, to run away from God as an adult because of your angry, narrow mindedness. How will you feel if someone suggests the millstone for you? Faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcarolinamom Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Just want to say that I attended the Southeast HomeSchool Convention this weekend in Greenville SC, and took one of SWB's classes on a writing program for grades K-12. She was awesome! Two wiggly thumbs up to you, SWB! Keep up the good work :D That's all, nothing more. I had a great time, and learned a lot. Tim Hawkins was awesome :lurk5: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangermom Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 That and the comments below make me sick to my stomach. :tongue_smilie: Yes. Oog. I was particularly troubled by the first comment. I'm pretty sure the attraction of Christianity is supposed to be Christ's Saviorship, not being saved from the horrors of evolutionist rhetoric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kchara Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I understand Mr. Ham talking about theistic evolution, and why he doesn't teach or promote it. I understand it, I do, when you look at AiG's ministry. But, telling people not to buy X publisher, or Y writer, because of some conspiracy theory... that's just unprofessional and leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth for AiG in general. These people are scientists, and should be much more professional than that. While I won't be buying Peter Enns work, because I do disagree iwth him, I won't be buying AiG, either, based off of their questionable business procedures. Which is pretty sad... I was starting to look at their stuff. Calling another speaker at a convention out like that... that's just ridiculous. That is the reason I'll never buy AiG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classical Book Worm Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Amen, SWB! As a Christian who happens to homeschool, who has felt at times marginalized by sectarian Christians who also homeschool, I say Amen! The SOTW actually inspired me and gave me the tools to incorporate my faith into history in a scholarly way. The same cannot be said for other so-called "more Christian" materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 These people are scientists, Ken Ham is a science teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraGB Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Cripes. You can't win for losing, can you? We love your books. Please keep writing them. My sentiments exactly. (and, yes, please keep writing those books - I'm counting on you for highschool :tongue_smilie:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Wow. I just got around to reading this. I just unfriended some facebook friends for sharing this opinion and Ham's FB note. I'm a secular homeschooler, and I really appreciate you, SWB. I can't believe people would stoop this low and target you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I think that it may be unrealistic to think that a speaker isn't going to point out what they think are flaws in other curriculum. I remember listening to a workshop by an algebra curriculum designer, who was pointing out problems with Saxon math (in particular, that skipping problems was going to be a bad idea). It was actually a wake up call for me to take a good look at how I was using Saxon so that we were getting the most out of it. And I recall hearing SWB make comments about the weaknesses that she perceived in a popular writing program. Or in many of the science programs available. What does seem out of line is the ad homenium attacks and the overt suggestion that because someone doesn't have a certain viewpoint, they are preaching heresy or worse. The best thing that I can say for these modern Simon Magus' is that they are a primary reason why we restarted studying catechism today and why I'm putting together a more rigorous science study for the rest of the school year. I want to make sure that when my kids encounter flim flam artists and people who want to tell them that their Christianity relies on such minor issues that they are equipped with logical and considered responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMary2 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I posted SWB's blog post on FB as a link to share........now my friend count is down by two. LOL Oh well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdalley Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I'm sure I got defriended cause I posted a link to SWB's blog entry and posed the question of why Christians felt the need to judge one another in such a manner. I have no issues with the person talking about the theology or lack thereof in some materials but to accuse that person of having a deliberate agenda to deceive people goes beyond a disagreement on theology. It's a personal attack and looks bad on the person attacking. I have no problem with someone pointing out things in a curriculum that one might find objectionable as long as it doesn't turn into a personal attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I'm sure I got defriended cause I posted a link to SWB's blog entry and posed the question of why Christians felt the need to judge one another in such a manner. I have no issues with the person talking about the theology or lack thereof in some materials but to accuse that person of having a deliberate agenda to deceive people goes beyond a disagreement on theology. It's a personal attack and looks bad on the person attacking. I have no problem with someone pointing out things in a curriculum that one might find objectionable as long as it doesn't turn into a personal attack. :iagree: May I quote this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdalley Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 :iagree: May I quote this? You may. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMindy Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Dang, I LOVE that woman! I love her intellect and her sense of humor (and her sarcasm!) and her ability to rise above the fray and take the high road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyBC Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Loved Part Five - how succinct. Timely, a relative posted this verse on FB today: "Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand." Romans 14:4 That whole chapter is relevant to this discussion, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 KathyBC, I love that verse! Faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I could be completely wrong in this, but when Hamm writes like this, is he not making belief in creationism the centrality of his Christianity? Because he believes that people would lose their salvation if they don't believe in Creationism? Or am I reading that wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I could be completely wrong in this, but when Hamm writes like this, is he not making belief in creationism the centrality of his Christianity? Because he believes that people would lose their salvation if they don't believe in Creationism? Or am I reading that wrong? It certainly appears that he believes that accepting creationism is central to Christianity.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Justamouse, This is one of my concerns as well. When we look at the orthodox tenets of Christianity, while belief in God the Father as creator, is indicated as a central belief, belief in a historical interpretation vs. allegorical Genesis 1 is not. So, while I tend to lean young earth, I have no problem with Christians who do not. I can't find anywhere in scripture where this is inherent in believing that man has fallen, needs redemption, and that in God's grace and mercy, He provided Jesus's vicarious death and resurrection that faith in Him might reconcile us to God. So, it does seem that Ham might be trying to imply that anyone who does not believe this is un unbeliever. If this is indeed the case, then there is a serious flaw in his hermeneutic and logic. Christ himself never preached that a tenet of faith absolutely must include a literal six day creation. When I search the gospels, I cannot find Him making this a make or break salvation deal. My fear for Ken Ham is that his defense of his beliefs has taken on a life of its own which is culminating in the grievous judging of his fellow believers' souls. If true, if this is how he feels in his heart, I am very sorry for him. Not only is that a pretty exreme burden to bear, but it's WRONG and scripture supports me rather conclusively in saying that this action would be so. I do not presume to judge his soul...far be it from me; he is my brother in Christ. But, scripture is clear that Christians do not get to judge other believers. That is God's place alone. So, as a fellow Christian I must view his rhetoric with grave concern. Faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I could be completely wrong in this, but when Hamm writes like this, is he not making belief in creationism the centrality of his Christianity? Because he believes that people would lose their salvation if they don't believe in Creationism? Or am I reading that wrong? His blog post seems to imply that. The facebook post gives more of a slippery slope argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janice in NJ Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Just wondering. And asking because I don't know.... Does this really just boil down to a women's issue? Looking at the AiG Website I see the group here: http://www.answersingenesis.org/outreach/speakers/ Not a gender-diverse group. The bulk of the homeschooling at our house was and is handled by me. And I'm a she. I don't personally know one father who handles the majority of the homeschooling. (I know plenty who can flap their gums about hsing. But I take the time to ask them if they DO the work. They stall, but I persist. Eventually they have all confessed that they don't actually do the bulk of the work. Their wife does. I'm sure you men exist, but you are not in the majority.) So a picture like this with one women and seven men causes me to ask myself if this group is really equipped to understand what I face every Monday morning. So I click on the one female face. I went through her profile. And I read the only article she wrote that addresses my concern: http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v5/n2/biblical-womanhood She references I Timothy 2. She affirms that unfairness and injustices that women face is because of sin. "Eve was proud and rejected God's words just like many women do today." She addresses modesty. And she talks about work. Her paragraphs on work are typically anti-feminist. She says, "...we are told as women to make our 'home work' the top priority." OK. Done. Now what? There is no mention of the woman's intellectual life beyond studying the Bible. Is AiG really just frustrated because this SWB person is encouraging all of these home educators to become wiser than the average Joe? Is it her fault that most of us happen to be women? I haven't the time to read any more about this organization. So I'm open to the fact that I may be jumping to the wrong conclusion. Here's my question: Does this organization seek to suppress secular intellectualism in women? If so, I think I get the angst they must feel for this educated gal who is bent on helping the rest of us find our own opinions. :001_smile: Too late for me. 'Cause I got 'em. :001_smile: Peace, Janice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Just wondering. And asking because I don't know.... Does this really just boil down to a women's issue? Looking at the AiG Website I see the group here: I don't think so. I really think it's a struggle for the heart of Christianity. There are two main ways to go. 1. Whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. Do unto others. Judge not. 2. Believe x, y, z and toe the line or go to hell. I hate that the latter group seems to have the bigger voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) I'd also like to bring up the fact that not only is criticizing other speakers and vendors at the convention, inappropriate, I think it could be down right unethical. Ken Ham has also criticized Jay Wile for his stance of NOT judging other's souls and defending other speakers. AIG sells science curriculum. HMMMM....Mr. Ham criticizes Peter Enns for his Bible curriculum which is just basic orthodox/apostle's creed type teaching and AIG sells Bible curriculum for children. Mr. Ham criticizes SWB and he sells Diana Waring's history curriculum through the Answers Store. I have to tell you, this smacks of more than just theological disagreement and begins to "appear" to have monetary, competitive motivations. Now, I actually do not believe so lowly of Mr. Ham...I do think that he is misguided in thinking he is defending God or guarding God's kingdom by leveling unwarranted comments and condemnations of other speakers and curricula. Thankfully, God has taken it upon himself to deal with humankind's motivations for what they do and say; I do not have that burden. But, as a consumer of homeschool products, I must say that I do have to make judgment calls of a certain nature when choosing products and Mr. Ham has shot himself in the foot, so to speak, in terms of my consideration of AIG products. As a matter of fact, his snarky rhetoric almost guarantees that I will avoid products he endorses, as I do Vision Forum because of some of the outlandish and unjustified attacks made by the founder of that company against other authors. I also think that Mr. Ham should be very careful in treating homeschooling parents as if they cannot think for themselves. I, for one, do not need to be spoon-fed theology and worldview from any speaker. Sad to say, years ago I heard Ken Ham at a conference and really enjoyed his talks, but now, I will not attend a session of his again. Faith The *content* of the controversy is different. But the tone and tenor of the whole mob reminds me of what was done to Cheryl Seeloff. Edited March 21, 2011 by Joanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJCMom Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 The *content* of the controversy is different. But the tone and tenor of the whole mob reminds me of what was done to Cheryl Seeloff. "Cheryl Lindsey Seelhoff" were the first words that entered my mind when I read this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 The *content* of the controversy is different. But the tone and tenor of the whole mob reminds me of what was done to Cheryl Seeloff. People who investigate this issue should be aware that it involved a whole lot of big names in the homeschooling movement (or should we say industry?). Cheryl lawyered up, sued and won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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