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Infant lead levels - help please


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I'm having a very bad mommy day. I feel like I'm failing my son, and I don't know what to do. My heart is sick, and honestly, I'm almost in tears.

 

We had checked the paint in out house before and it was fine, but we later learned that almost all of our wood work is covered with a lead based varnish. We had my 10 month old's lead levels checked, and they came back at a 5. This is far from OK, and I don't know what to do.

 

We have tons of wood work. It's beautiful and everywhere. Multiple rooms have very nice quality wood paneling. The work associated with painting it is almost paralyzing since there's so much of it. If we managed to paint it all, it would likely have quite a negative impact on our property value. We were planning to move in a year, and if our home value took a hit, I'm not sure that would be possible anymore. What if we paint everything and his levels don't go down because the lead is from some other source we haven't found yet? Then we sink the value of our house, we're no better off with regards to his health, and we can't move because our house is worth so much less. If we move before the year is up, we owe the government $8,000 because of the new home buyer tax credit.

 

We could just paint the kitchen/breakfast nook, and he and I could spend our days in that room, but it's small, and it just seems so confining for both of us. None of the other living spaces are enclosed enough that we can just paint one room/area. I suppose we could paint a bedroom, but that seems more confining than the kitchen, and I need to go to the kitchen to cook, etc anyway. Honestly, I just want to pick up and move to a one bedroom apartment where my baby will be safe, but I don't think we can even do that without paying the $8,000. This has to stay our primary residence.

 

We've been saving so that we can move next year, so we have the cash that we could pay back the $8,000 and move, but that plus moving expenses would really set us back...

 

I will of course be wet dusting daily to try to minimize exposure, making him wash his hands much more frequently, and trying to keep him away from the woodwork. Really though, the wood is everywhere. I'm going to be spending all day redirecting him, and it makes him so frustrated when he can't explore. He puts every blessed thing in his mouth and has since he figured out how to. He's been on the early side of normal for pretty much every physical milestone so far, but he isn't ahead verbally. I'm just at a loss. I don't know what to do, and I hate it.

 

We have another blood test scheduled for two months from now.

 

I'm sorry if this is long and rambling, I'm just worried and frustrated.

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I don't know exactly what kind of wood work you are talking about or if it is colored or anything but couldn't you see about getting a clear lead free varnish to coat it? Something that wouldn't allow the lead through?

 

Or does it ned to be stripped then painted?

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We had my 10 month old's lead levels checked, and they came back at a 5. This is far from OK, and I don't know what to do.

 

It's been years since my DC were checked, but I thought anything over 10 was a concern. (Their test was a blood test and was 3.) What did your doctor say about the 5?

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We've been saving so that we can move next year, so we have the cash that we could pay back the $8,000 and move, but that plus moving expenses would really set us back...

 

I'm sorry if this is long and rambling, I'm just worried and frustrated.

 

Considering the continuing risk to your child's well being, not to metnion the stress and concern this is causing you, I'd opt for the setback and move if that was a slightest possibility whatsoever!

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I don't know exactly what kind of wood work you are talking about or if it is colored or anything but couldn't you see about getting a clear lead free varnish to coat it? Something that wouldn't allow the lead through? Or does it ned to be stripped then painted?

 

It's the door frames, doors, base boards, paneling etc. I haven't checked the window sills yet. Can you varnish over wood without having to sand off the old varnish first? I'll have to research... I don't think stripping it is an option. That would create lead dust everywhere.

 

It's been years since my DC were checked, but I thought anything over 10 was a concern. (Their test was a blood test and was 3.) What did your doctor say about the 5?

 

The CDC says over a 10 is when the child is in danger, but there has been significant research showing that levels from 2 - 10 are damaging. The pediatrician was definitely concerned.

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It's been years since my DC were checked, but I thought anything over 10 was a concern. (Their test was a blood test and was 3.) What did your doctor say about the 5?

:iagree: My 12 month old was recently tested and was a 3 as well. The clinic said any lead isn't GOOD, but under 10 is OK.

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So sorry about your little guy! I understand you're feelings on this... It is terrible to hear that our kiddos have high lead, and to try to track down the source. My DS has borderline high lead, and we are not sure of the source, but doc suspects exposure prior to birth (we had no control over that, DS is adopted, and birthmother was exposed to environmental toxins, unfortunately). We are chelating, but it takes time. And in the meantime, I find myself second-guessing everything, even though I'd thought our house was fairly safe and free of environmental toxins.

 

Are you addressing the lead issue now (medically)? What if you address it as your doc advises, put in place some general safety measures around the house (you listed several already), and when you retest in several months, if the levels are still high... then consider more alternatives.

 

I am suggesting that only because the source of your DS's lead could be from something other than the woodwork, unless you're positive that's the source?

 

What about moving out and renting your home until you can sell it? Or would that force you to take the $8000 hit as well?

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My sister had to deal with this. Yes, they live in an older house with a lot of wood work. But you should have the dirt in your yard tested. For them, the problem stemmed more from the house being sanded and painted outside for the last 150 years. Her daughter didn't spend inordinate amounts of time in the dirt, but we were all tracking that dirt into the home. The paint is really only a strong issue if it's flaking...or I guess if your kid likes to chew on the window sills:tongue_smilie:

 

*We started taking off our shoes at the front door.

*They bought a hepa vacuum and did wet dusting.

*Their daughter was treated with a liquid iron supplement that we "hid" in Odwalla green juice.

*Washed her hands more frequently, since babies/toddlers frequently put their hands in their mouths.

 

I think it took about 6-9 months for her levels to come down to an acceptable level. She is now a brilliant and healthy child.

You can do it!

Edited by Flux
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My son's lead numbers were in the upper teens. We spend oodles of time researching how his numbers could get that high. In addition to paint,lead can be found in miniblinds, crayons, candles, toys etc.. This list just seemed to go on forever. Plus they couldn't tell us if he stood next to a bolder size lump of lead one day or if he had a toy with a tiny amount of lead that he played with every day. We had the house, the soil, the water, the pipes, and myself tested for lead. We never did figure it out.

I believe if the number is over 10 each state has an agency that provides more info. We did some research into foods that help the body move the lead out and we ended up added kelp to his diet.

The finger blood draw is not as accurate as a draw from a vein. See about have a rerest done.

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So sorry about your little guy! I understand you're feelings on this... It is terrible to hear that our kiddos have high lead, and to try to track down the source. My DS has borderline high lead, and we are not sure of the source, but doc suspects exposure prior to birth (we had no control over that, DS is adopted, and birthmother was exposed to environmental toxins, unfortunately). We are chelating, but it takes time. And in the meantime, I find myself second-guessing everything, even though I'd thought our house was fairly safe and free of environmental toxins.

 

Are you addressing the lead issue now (medically)? What if you address it as your doc advises, put in place some general safety measures around the house (you listed several already), and when you retest in several months, if the levels are still high... then consider more alternatives.

 

I am suggesting that only because the source of your DS's lead could be from something other than the woodwork, unless you're positive that's the source?

 

What about moving out and renting your home until you can sell it? Or would that force you to take the $8000 hit as well?

 

I'm not positive it's from the woodwork, if I could be assured that would fix the problem, I would be painting tomorrow. We aren't addressing it medically at this point. I don't think chelation is recommended unless the levels are higher. I'm just starting to research though... Sorry about your little one. :(

 

what about those baby gates that hook together to make play yards?

 

Could that be a "safe" place for him that could be moved from room to room?

 

like this

 

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2266978

 

Thanks for the suggestion. That may be what we have to do for awhile. I know it will drive him crazy though. He can't stand to be confined, but I'm sure he also would rather not have lead in his little body.

 

My sister had to deal with this. Yes, they live in an older house with a lot of wood work. But you should have the dirt in your yard tested. For them, the problem stemmed more from the house being sanded and painted outside for the last 150 years. She didn't spend inordinate amounts of time in the dirt, but we were all tracking that dirt into the home. The paint is really only a strong issue if it's flaking...or I guess if your kid likes to chew on the window sills:tongue_smilie:

 

*We started taking off our shoes at the front door.

*They bought a hepa vacuum and did wet dusting.

*Their daughter was treated with a liquid iron supplement that we "hid" in Odwalla green juice.

*Washed her hands more frequently, since babies/toddlers frequently put their hands in their mouths.

 

I think it took about 6-9 months for her levels to come down to an acceptable level. She is now a brilliant and healthy child.

You can do it!

 

I do not let him play in the yard at all for this reason, but I appreciate your suggestion about the shoes. For some reason that hadn't clicked with me yet. We will be starting that today. His iron levels were good, and I will be sure to keep getting iron rich foods in him.

 

 

My son's lead numbers were in the upper teens. We spend oodles of time researching how his numbers could get that high. In addition to paint,lead can be found in miniblinds, crayons, candles, toys etc.. This list just seemed to go on forever. Plus they couldn't tell us if he stood next to a bolder size lump of lead one day or if he had a toy with a tiny amount of lead that he played with every day. We had the house, the soil, the water, the pipes, and myself tested for lead. We never did figure it out.

I believe if the number is over 10 each state has an agency that provides more info. We did some research into foods that help the body move the lead out and we ended up added kelp to his diet.

The finger blood draw is not as accurate as a draw from a vein. See about have a rerest done.

 

Thank you for your story. I'm sorry about your son's levels. How scary. I've been trying to be so careful the things we keep in our home, and it's just so frustrating to still have this problem. I will look into the kelp. This blood test was from his vein, and I will be sure the next one is also. Thanks again.

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Lead leaches out of the body fairly quickly once exposure is stopped; if you figure it out, his levels will go down rapidly.

 

Use cold water to wash his hands, and you might want to look for some of the special soap that shooters use as well. Warm water opens up the pores and lets the lead soak in, hence the cold water.

 

Obviously, check your pipes and soil, in addition to the paint. You might also test toys and any keys to older vehicles that he might touch. I have also heard that if you live near a highway, you can have higher lead levels.

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Back when my twins were little, we had our new-to-us house tested for lead. The two areas that were the biggest issue were the wood window frames (the friction of opening and closing the windows erodes the paint/varnish and releases lead) and the dirt outside.

 

We opted to replace the windows to remove the wood frames entirely.

 

For the dirt, we didn't wear shoes in the house and we covered exposed dirt outside with mulch as much as possible.

 

Our kids lead levels stayed fine during our four years in that house.

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I would invite an air specialist to the home to test your air quality as well. I know we were concerned about our older house but our pediatrician was actually much more concerned about crayons and toys that would go in the mouth than anything else. :grouphug:

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I have helped and done a lot of varnishing for dh, in new and remodled houses. I think it would be fine to just revarnish over the old if it's not flaking off. I've done that and never had a problem with it. Maybe you could even use a water based finish. That is very easy to do. Even doors aren't very hard to do with a water based clear finish. In now time you could have a few rooms taped and coated. It dries almost as fast as you put it on.

 

:grouphug:

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When you sell the house, you will have to disclose the fact that the woodwork has lead based varnish.

 

Depending on where you live, it may not matter. Houses here sell as is pretty much all the time and everyone expects that there's a good chance there's a layer of lead paint in there somewhere.

 

We had our kids tested as toddlers and one of them came back as a "6" IIRC. The doctor said to basically chill out because it wasn't the end of the world, but to make sure we didn't have flaking paint, keep them out of the dirt for awhile, keep our eyes out for other sources. We did, but we didn't significantly change our behavior. Like you, we weren't sure what we could do differently. Anyway, we had them retested and it came back as a 1 or 2 I think and the doctor said not to worry.

 

I'm not sure what to say. I admit that I took a sort of cavalier attitude about it. I was concerned, but also not sure what could be done other than move house, which was nigh on impossible. The levels weren't so high that I felt like I needed to freak out. It was only one kid (my kids are twins). And when we retested in the spring (the doctor said levels tend to be highest in spring) they were lower, so I let it go and basically have just prayed that it was a one time event.

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:grouphug:

 

 

I am very sorry for what you are going through, and I totally understand how you feel. Really!

 

You need a real, thorough lead test by a lead expert. Don't rely on home kids; only one is considered usable by the EPA, and that's only with an expert doing the using. Testing will tell you how much and where the lead is. They will test literally ever surface of the house and outbuildings inside and out, the dirt, and your water. The problem with testing is that once you know, you must disclose the presence of lead in a sale.

 

You definitely need to wet dust frequently. If you have carpeting, you should vacuum regularly with a true HEPA vacuum. Many HEPA vacuums aren't true HEPA vacuums and blow particles right back into the air. There was a YouTube video I watched where a man held up a particulate counter to the cord of a vacuum, and the particulate counter showed an increase in particles in the air. Miele vacuums are expensive but reliable for HEPA filtration.

 

You need to also wash things he'll play with and chew on frequently.

 

Add vitamin C in his diet until just under the level it causes diarrhea. Vitamin C works as a natural chelation method. It binds to the lead and helps remove it. The medical chelation is not good; you want to avoid getting to that level of lead as it will also remove calcium from his bones. (I've been told it is painful.)

 

Make sure he is getting enough iron. The body confuses lead with iron; if it doesn't have enough iron, it will absorb more lead. Too much iron, though, is bad for males so ask your pediatrician how much he needs.

 

Lead levels peak between 18-24 months. His lead levels have a good chance of going up. You'll need to be as diligent as you can with the cleaning, the supplements, and testing his levels regularly. The current EPA "action level" is 10 (that's when your pediatrician should be discussing chelation); I've been told they are talking about lowering that level, though.

 

Know that lead can cause ADD. Be on the look out for it as he ages and know it is a possibility. I have no idea how much exposure my now 4 year old got, but he's loud and busy all the time. It makes me wonder all the time.

 

There may be programs to help you make your home safer in the form of grants and/or low/no interest loans. Contact both your state and city. Start with EPA and HUD departments; they should be able to direct you.

 

If you can move, do so. I know you said you were in a difficult situation.

 

My youngest daughter's lead level was 3.3. The entire exterior of the house was covered in very high level of leads, and the paint was peeling badly. Most of the inside of the house was covered in lead paint and much of it was in bad shape. The windows and doors all had the very high levels of lead paint. The work required to make our house "safe" (not removing the lead) was going to run $20,000or more . We opted to abandon the house.* Our credit would recover, but damage done by lead poisoning is permanent. We weren't willing to stick around and hope her levels didn't get that high. Our mortgage company ignored all of our attempts to contact them to hand over the deed and chose to foreclose instead.

 

:grouphug:

 

* We also had the issue of a drug dealer living across the street and someone (whom we believe was hired by the drug dealer) bashing in multiple windows of our van. There were also 2 level-3 sex offenders living within a block of our house. Plus, the current value of our house was significantly under our loan balance. So, there were multiple things going on that lead to use abandoning the house.

Edited by joannqn
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When you sell the house, you will have to disclose the fact that the woodwork has lead based varnish.

 

Federal law requires a lead based paint disclosure made for ALL houses built prior to 1978. No effect on value, since all houses built prior to 1978 are assumed to have lead based paint.

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Here is a silly question but it only comes to mind because we are trying to buy a bigger house. Don't you have to disclose lead to a potential buyer? If you did, your house might not sell because of the lead.

 

If the house is older than 1978, the seller is required to disclose that there may be lead based paint. You get a little brochure that talks about it. You don't know whether there is lead based paint or not.

 

I can tell you from my stupid mistake, that a young couple without kids, sees that brochure and thinks nothing of it, especially if the home is newly painted. Everyone thinks of eating paint chips. I heard many times from people commenting about not letting the kids chew on the window sills. Yes, that is really BAD, but not how kids get exposure most of the time. However, most lead exposure comes in the form of dust, which is created when windows and doors with lead paint are opened and closed. In our case, a lot of the lead was assumed (by experts in the field) to be coming from the windows, doors, and from walking across the porches to enter the house. The porches were covered in very high levels of lead paint so we brought it in every time we entered the house, and my kids got it on their hands every time I sat them on the porch or they touched the porch railings. THAT never occurred to me when I looked at the "this house MIGHT have lead paint" brochure.

 

Once you have your home tested, the disclosure would be different. Now you know for sure that there is a dangerous, health hazard in the house and you have to tell the potential buyers about it.

 

There's a big difference between the "might have" brochure that every old house comes with and definitely does have disclosure for the typical person.

 

So, it might not affect the "market value" from an appraiser's point of view, but it is definitely going to affect market value from a buyer's point of view.

Edited by joannqn
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Unless that paint is chipped and/or somehow creating dust, I would look elsewhere for exposure. Dirt, sand, water, food, exhaust, work environemnt are all culprits. What sort of work does your dh do? Could it be on your clothing or his? Do you play regularly in a public sand box near a busy road? What kind of window treatments are in your home? How old are your pipes? You can have layers of lead in paint, but if they are not chipping and creating dust, and your child is not licking it, it's propably not the biggest lead factor. Once you start ripping and sandling all of that, you are sending lead dust into the air and onto surfaces.

 

Do you know if the people who owned the house before you had any outside work done? If they stripped the pain improperly, it might be in your dirt. If your child plays outside in this dirt, it's a problem. Do you have filtered water?

 

There are many ways to ingest lead.

Edited by LibraryLover
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There are many ways to ingest lead.

 

 

:iagree:

 

This is why you need to get an expert to assess the home and environment. They should test the paint, varnish, water, and dirt.

 

However, the paint doesn't have to be chipping and peeling to cause lead dust, though that doesn't increase the amount you have. If you have wood-wrapped windows that are painted, you can create lead paint from the friction when they are opened and closed. One of the issues in our house was the threshold of the doors. They weren't chipping or peeling, but you could see where they were worn from the door opening and closing and from being walked on repeatedly over the years.

 

Again, you cannot trust a home test kit. I had used one many years ago and it was negative everywhere, including places I now know have high amounts of lead. I tested again before we had the expert testing, and I got a false positive on one of the few places where there was no lead.

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Yes. Lead dust created from opening and closing windows can be an issue. But simply touching surfaces of well -sealed paint should not be an issue. Sealed surfaces should not be spewing dust. However, dust can linger from past poor sandings.

 

I would much rather see surfaces sealed rather than sanded. Once you start sanding...you had better do it right.

 

 

 

If the house is older than 1978, the seller is required to disclose that there may be lead based paint. You get a little brochure that talks about it. You don't know whether there is lead based paint or not.

 

I can tell you from my stupid mistake, that a young couple without kids, sees that brochure and thinks nothing of it, especially if the home is newly painted. Everyone thinks of eating paint chips. I heard many times from people commenting about not letting the kids chew on the window sills. Yes, that is really BAD, but not how kids get exposure most of the time. However, most lead exposure comes in the form of dust, which is created when windows and doors with lead paint are opened and closed. In our case, a lot of the lead was assumed (by experts in the field) to be coming from the windows, doors, and from walking across the porches to enter the house. The porches were covered in very high levels of lead paint so we brought it in every time we entered the house, and my kids got it on their hands every time I sat them on the porch or they touched the porch railings. THAT never occurred to me when I looked at the "this house MIGHT have lead paint" brochure.

 

Once you have your home tested, the disclosure would be different. Now you know for sure that there is a dangerous, health hazard in the house and you have to tell the potential buyers about it.

 

There's a big difference between the "might have" brochure that every old house comes with and definitely does have disclosure for the typical person.

 

So, it might not affect the "market value" from an appraiser's point of view, but it is definitely going to affect market value from a buyer's point of view.

Edited by LibraryLover
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I'm having a very bad mommy day. I feel like I'm failing my son, and I don't know what to do. My heart is sick, and honestly, I'm almost in tears.

 

We had checked the paint in out house before and it was fine, but we later learned that almost all of our wood work is covered with a lead based varnish. We had my 10 month old's lead levels checked, and they came back at a 5. This is far from OK, and I don't know what to do.

 

We have tons of wood work. It's beautiful and everywhere. Multiple rooms have very nice quality wood paneling. The work associated with painting it is almost paralyzing since there's so much of it. If we managed to paint it all, it would likely have quite a negative impact on our property value. We were planning to move in a year, and if our home value took a hit, I'm not sure that would be possible anymore. What if we paint everything and his levels don't go down because the lead is from some other source we haven't found yet? Then we sink the value of our house, we're no better off with regards to his health, and we can't move because our house is worth so much less. If we move before the year is up, we owe the government $8,000 because of the new home buyer tax credit.

 

We could just paint the kitchen/breakfast nook, and he and I could spend our days in that room, but it's small, and it just seems so confining for both of us. None of the other living spaces are enclosed enough that we can just paint one room/area. I suppose we could paint a bedroom, but that seems more confining than the kitchen, and I need to go to the kitchen to cook, etc anyway. Honestly, I just want to pick up and move to a one bedroom apartment where my baby will be safe, but I don't think we can even do that without paying the $8,000. This has to stay our primary residence.

 

We've been saving so that we can move next year, so we have the cash that we could pay back the $8,000 and move, but that plus moving expenses would really set us back...

 

I will of course be wet dusting daily to try to minimize exposure, making him wash his hands much more frequently, and trying to keep him away from the woodwork. Really though, the wood is everywhere. I'm going to be spending all day redirecting him, and it makes him so frustrated when he can't explore. He puts every blessed thing in his mouth and has since he figured out how to. He's been on the early side of normal for pretty much every physical milestone so far, but he isn't ahead verbally. I'm just at a loss. I don't know what to do, and I hate it.

 

We have another blood test scheduled for two months from now.

 

I'm sorry if this is long and rambling, I'm just worried and frustrated.

Did you use a kit to check for lead in your home or have a professional check for lead ? I'm wondering how you knew it was fine at one point but now say there is lead in your house.

As far as painting your house, do not take advice from nonprofessionals regarding painting a house with lead paint or varnish in it. Do not start any projects that include sanding or disturbing the paint, which will cause lead to get into your house. You should look for a professional painter with a license to check your home for lead. Have him find out where the problems are if you do not already know.There are kits for this. Perhaps you have already done this. Each state has their own laws regarding how lead paint has to be handled. In some states contractors have to have special training and be licensed to work on homes that contain lead paint.

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If a renter can't replace widows, I am for slapping down layers of sealant. Most people can't afford to sand correctly. It's a huge and nearly impo$$ible job for your basic owner.

 

I'd replace windows before I attemped sanding.

 

You can't vac lead dust. You have to wipe it away with damp cloths and mops.

 

 

:iagree:

 

This is why you need to get an expert to assess the home and environment. They should test the paint, varnish, water, and dirt.

 

However, the paint doesn't have to be chipping and peeling to cause lead dust, though that doesn't increase the amount you have. If you have wood-wrapped windows that are painted, you can create lead paint from the friction when they are opened and closed. One of the issues in our house was the threshold of the doors. They weren't chipping or peeling, but you could see where they were worn from the door opening and closing and from being walked on repeatedly over the years.

 

Again, you cannot trust a home test kit. I had used one many years ago and it was negative everywhere, including places I now know have high amounts of lead. I tested again before we had the expert testing, and I got a false positive on one of the few places where there was no lead.

Edited by LibraryLover
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Can you varnish over wood without having to sand off the old varnish first? I'll have to research... I don't think stripping it is an option. That would create lead dust everywhere.

 

Stripping varnish would normally be done with chemical stripper, rather than by sanding. It wouldn't create dust, but rather "goo". Some chemical strippers are better than others - none are fun to work with. The basic procedure would be to paint on the stripper, leave for a certain length of time, scrape the varnish off, perhaps use steel wool to remove any residue, then "wash" the surface with another chemical to remove any final residue and stickiness. I stripped glue off the entire floor using this process when I lifted our vinyl tiles.

 

If you varnishing over the timber will "seal" the lead in, then you could perhaps get by with a light sanding before re-varnishing. Using a water-based varnish would greatly reduce the mess and work.

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