Help us decide what is fair in this awkward situation!

[OLG]

Not having read all of the posts, has she called to find out what the replacement of just the frames would be? I imagine the lenses are fine, right? So it wouldn't be the full $400 original cost to replace them I would think.

 

Awkward situation certainly! My gut reaction was that they split the cost...not really fair to your dd but in the interest of keeping the peace, it seems sensible especially if the roommate has failed to step up already.

[Greta]

I cannot believe anyone here thinks your daughter should have to put her glasses, and all other items she does not want chewed up, out of the dog's path. That's a ridiculous standard. There is nothing wrong with leaving one's glasses on the arm of a sofa, and if the dog got them off and destroyed them, well, the dog's owner pays for them. I doubt that the replacement cost is actually going to be $400, but whatever it is, that's what the roommate owes.

 

What if the dog chewed the furniture? Or the carpet? Would you still think the OP's daughter is liable for not storing her living room furniture, and the living room rug, in her locked bedroom? Glasses are no different. Now, if they'd been left on the floor and stepped on, that would be different, but a dog chewed them up.

 

Terri

 

Once when a friend was visiting me, my dogs got into her suitcase and found the peanut butter and crackers she had packed for snacking en route. Luckily, they didn't damage anything else in getting to the food (since the suitcase was unzipped), but OBVIOUSLY I replaced her food and would have replaced anything else they had damaged. I cannot imagine saying to her "well, you shouldn't have left your suitcase on the floor knowing there are four dogs in the house. You are partially responsible". Good grief!!! Yes, it is reasonable to expect that dogs are going to try to get to food that is left within their reach, but I still wouldn't dream of holding her accountable for that. They are MY dogs.

 

Plus, it is NOT reasonable to expect that a dog might chew up a pair of glasses. I'm pretty familiar with dogs, and I fully expect them to chew things that smell remotely food-like or have a chewy texture. But GLASSES?!? The OP's daughter could not be held accountable for knowing that her glasses were in danger from the dog. And if this dog is that destructive, then the owner needs to be held accountable so that she will take better precautions in the future.

 

As to what she spends on her glasses, I think that's her own business. We are a very budget-conscious family, but even we have areas where we indulge, and others might think us extravagant. If one of those extravagances were destroyed by someone else, I would expect them to be just as liable for it as if they had destroyed something that was moderately priced. I went without a new pair of glasses one year so that the next year I could buy a really comfortable and stylish pair of prescription sunglasses. That was MY choice about how to spend my money. If someone destroyed them, I would expect them to pay to replace them, not to lecture me on how to budget my money.

 

I'm actually in a much happier mood right now than one might think from reading this post! :lol: But that's my $0.02

[cindergretta]

So if the glasses were on the arm of the sofa and the roommate didn't see them, sat down, they fell on the floor, and then got stepped on b/c she wasn't aware of them, still her fault? She is responsible for something she didn't see in a place she wouldn't expect?

[Renee in NC]

So if the glasses were on the arm of the sofa and the roommate didn't see them, sat down, they fell on the floor, and then got stepped on b/c she wasn't aware of them, still her fault? She is responsible for something she didn't see in a place she wouldn't expect?

 

I would say no. However, a dog chewing them up is different - there is a reasonable expectation that you can leave your glasses lying around and they won't get chewed up!

[Lady Florida.]

As a dog lover and long time dog owner (I can't remember the last time I didn't have a dog), I would feel responsible for any property my dog destroyed.

 

As someone who's worn glasses for 45 years I cannot imagine paying $400 for a pair of glasses! And I can't imagine expecting someone to replace my glasses if they cost that much, even if they were responsible for the damage.

 

I also don't know what it's like to have a roommate I wasn't friends with. When I was single, every roommate I ever had was someone who was already a friend before we moved in together. I think the fact that they are just roommates and not friends makes it a bit trickier to work out.

 

I don't know what the right solution is, but I lean towards them splitting the cost.

[RanchGirl]

I'd ask the room mate to pay for replacements from Zennia Optical. It would probably be about $20.

 

I would buy them from Zennia myself just to get along but not tell the roommate how much she is saving, just say I'm going to have to get new glasses and in the interest of getting along I will pay for them myself, but in the future if your dog destroys anything I will expect you to pay for it.

 

I would find a nicer way to say it than my example above but be firm about it too.

[KristinaBreece]

If my dog (or my kids...) destroys something, I feel like it's my responsibility to at least split the cost of repair or replacement.

 

However, if I left something out where I knew someone's dog (or kids) might get it, I would feel responsible for the cost of repair or replacement myself. Especially if I had paid $400 for a single pair of glasses and neglected to buy a replacement plan of some sort. I kind of equate that with neglecting to buy car insurance.

 

So I'm completely ambivalent on this one. I can absolutely see either side.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I guess I can see this as 50/50 responsibility. The glasses shouldn't have been left out. For that price, I would certainly expect they came with a hard case. IMO, they should have been in that case, in her bedroom.

 

That said, if my dog or child damages someone's property, I expect to pay for it - IF they took reasonable precautions and my dog or child overcame those reasonable precautions.

 

Since your dd didn't take (IMO) "reasonable precautions" to protect her property, I would only feel partially responsible for the damage.

 

At the end of the day, though, the bigger issue has to be the living arrangement. If this gets ugly or gets pushed, can they afford to part company and find other living arrangements/roommates?

 

(Fwiw, if I were the dog owner, I would be a tad upset at having to pay a small fortune for someone's extravagant expense that they themselves didn't take very good care of, kwim? Yeah, my dog chewed them up, but it would have been a lot easier on everyone - who is admittedly short on cash and thus in this living situation - if the glasses were more reasonably priced, insured, taken proper care of, etc. Now I - the phantom dog owner - am out a whack of money I can't afford b/c my dog acted like a dog while my roommate acted on the irresponsible side.)

 

 

Yes, this. Reasonable precautions.

 

I just got a new $500 smartphone. (Android) But,...I actually PAID $0 for it since it involved renewing my contract. Now, I TREAT it as if I actually PAID that $500 for it, even though I have insurance I don't want to have to use it. If someone damaged it WHEN I WASN'T TAKING THE PROPER PRECAUTIONS then I would not expect them to reimburse me.

 

If I left my phone out on the couch and someone's dog chewed it up? COMPLETELY MY FAULT!

 

Just my two pennies.

[MamaBearTeacher]

I think the roommate is 100% responsible, but it is awkward to ask and can hurt the relationship. I think the roommate should have offered to pay 100% and that she should have left an apology note or waited for your DD to wake up so she could apologize for what happened rather than just leave her to find the chewed up glasses.

 

I assume that the living room is shared space unless your DD is only paying for her room and the roomate is paying the rent for the living room. Do they both keep their belongings and furniture etc. in the living room? I agree that if the roommate keeps a dog she should be responsible for what it destroys, but again, it is awkward and you want to get along with your roommate even if they're not your friend.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

Leaving the glasses on the couch arm was irresponsible. Glasses can be hard to see! What if the roommate had sat down and put her arm down and accidentally tweaked them or put a book down on them? I don't think it's fair to leave something so expensive lying around that could very easily go unseen and damaged. :confused:

[Pink Fairy]

I wear glasses and have a dog, therefore I am an expert. :tongue_smilie: I think both parties are at fault, the dog's owner more so, and the OP's suggestion of a 75/25 split seems reasonable to me. I'd also go the Zenni Optical route too. We just bought our own dd 3 pair for $36 shipped, and they are at least as nice as the ones we got from the optometrist.

[In2why]

:iagree:

 

I am probably more on the "it's the dog owner's fault" side of the fence, but I completely agree with this. I would be really upset about having to pay $400 for someone's glasses when I don't pay more than $150 for mine. I guess I think the roommate should have to pay a "reasonable replacement cost" for the glasses and not the actual value of the broken pair.

 

 

My problem with this analogy, is that if I bumped into someones BMW, I don't get to decide that I don't want to pay for it because I drive a Ford. The cost of her glasses is besides the point. I would never pay that, but she did, and it is her choice what to spend her money on. Now if the roommate can find the exact same glasses for less then she is making her whole, but either she is responsible or she isn't. The cost isn't a factor.

[RoughCollie]

Roommate is 100% liable. They didn't get knocked off by someone and accidentally stepped on. The dog was left unattended, and damaged the glasses. While I am certain the dog didn't understand the ramifications, it wasn't an accident either. The dog chewed them on purpose. The dog/owner are liable.

 

:iagree:

[StephanieZ]

If you live with animals, you accept the risk of things being wrecked by them. I'd advise your daughter to 'eat' the cost of the glasses, and to be more careful in the future. These things happen.

 

Now, if you were the mom of the dog-owner, I'd advise the opposite, lol.

 

It's sort of like living with kids IMHO. You have to learn to keep breakables put away safely if you want them unbroken.

[Murphy101]

Roommate's fault.

 

It's not like she left her glasses on the floor or the seat of the sofa. It was the arm. Worst that could've normally happened is the glasses fall harmlessly to the floor and thus get noticed.

 

I've got 9 kids, a dog, 2 cats, a rabbit, and two birds in this house. And 7 of us wear glasses.

 

I feel perfectly comfortable setting my glasses on the arms of my sofas or chairs. For that matter, most tables are sofa height and right next to sofas, so it's not like setting the glasses in the end/coffee table would have put them out of the dog's reach.

 

I also think most people don't expect a dog to eat their eye glasses. Chew a shoe, maybe. Glass wear, not so much.

 

How much she paid for her glasses is not relevant. If the roommate had watched her dog better she wouldn't have to buy anything.

 

Personally, I'd be okay with getting a new roommate or getting rid of the dog. If I can't set anything down (and a dog dumb enough to eat eye glasses will likely chew anything else) bc of a dog that isn't mine, then I'd want the dog gone. Besides. It's mean to keep the dog locked in a bedroom and or crate all day.

[clarkacademy]

I maybe odd but I am a firm believer that I can leave whatever I want out in my home. That is not her dog not her problem. The room mate should pay for them. This is my house I will leave out whatever I choose and if your dog or your kid comes over and breaks something I expect you to pay for it. I expect people to take care of their charges whether animal or child. If it was a neighbors dog that some how got into the house the neighbor would be expected to pay. No different.

[sleepymommy]

:tongue_smilie:I think it's better to take responsibility for your own mistakes and find a better solution than blaming someone else. I understand that it sucks to have expensive glasses chewed up by a dog. I understand that the dog can't pay for the glasses to be replaced, so then it would be the owners' responsibility. BUT I also understand that the owner of the glasses was negligent in leaving them out and about and not put away in a place where she KNEW they'd be safe. It may be reasonable to expect your stuff to be there and be okay when you wake up in the morning but Stuff Happens. *I* would not expect the roommate to pay to replace my expensive glasses, I would just feel stupid for having left them out and would make sure that I didn't leave ANY of my stuff sitting out in the 'common' areas in the future. I'd also make sure I bought insurance for my glasses in the future 'just in case' I did something that resulted in them being ruined in the future. Glasses are fragile, and there is NO way I'd have a pair that cost THAT much money and not have insurance for them but that's just me. I would be disappointed but *I* would take full responsibility for MY things and just consider it a lesson learned.

IMO it's not worth causing hard feelings, it's just STUFF and people and relationships (even if they aren't 'close' relationships) are way more important than STUFF. If it's my stuff, it's my responsibility to make sure it's 'safe' and taken care of, ESPECIALLY if I share my space with other people/animals.

 

:iagree: 100%

 

I've lived in apartments with roommates and would never leave anything of value out in the common area. Anything could happen and obviously if your in a roommate required environment then money is tight all around, expecting and actually receiving replacements for expensive items is unlikely. It's not just her place, it's a shared space.

 

The OP said her dd has only had the glasses for a week, so the dog probably had not yet been trained not to touch them as opposed to shoes and what not. And since it's known the roommate let's the dog in the common area while she is around I'm sure the roommate doesn't see the need to scope out the common area for fragile, expensive, inappropriately placed items before letting the dog out of her room every morning.

 

I learned when I first got my glasses when I was kid how easily my glasses could get ruined if I wasn't careful with them and man did my parents come done hard on me about my irresponsibility. I remember the replacement they got for me was just plain ugly, but I had to deal with it since I should have taken care of my nice ones.

 

It's stinks for your dd, but it's a lesson learned.

 

If I were her I'd just buy replacements from Zennia. If the roommate offered to share the cost it'd be great, but I wouldn't expect it since I am ultimately responsible for my own things.

[Murphy101]

I maybe odd but I am a firm believer that I can leave whatever I want out in my home.

 

Me too. I'm uber careful with books and liquids/foods, but otherwise I expect to do whatever fairly comfortably.

 

But we are weird, we don't baby proof much either. We tell them no and relocate a bazillion times until they figure it out.

 

What if instead of glasses it had been an expensive OOP book or an heirloom quilt from her great grandmother? Either of which could easily be worth more than $400.

 

Just bc the person at fault thinks it is a waste of money or not worth the money does not mean the person wronged doesn't have a right to have the item properly reimbursed at it's true value.

[sleepymommy]

I don't understand why she should be liable at all. It is her apartment and I would expect that as a renter I should be able to have my belongings in it. What if it was a pair of shoes by the door? A pillow on the couch? What if it was the leg of an end table? It isn't her dog! ESPECIALLY since she has never taken any responsibility for the dog. To me, that is not a shared responsibility/obligation/liability....it is solely on the dog's owner.

 

 

 

From what I understood in the OP's post is that it is a two bedroom that they both rented together, not that it was solely the dd's place and the other person rented a room from her. If they are renting together they share the common areas.

 

I'm guessing the dog has been trained not to chew the everyday things that are always there (pillows, end table, shoes), but not a brand new pair of glasses.

 

That said, I still wouldn't even leave out my favorite boots that cost $100 just because they are of value to me and I wouldn't want to take a chance that they get ruined. My $30 sneakers I wouldn't feel the need to keep in my room. My new $400 uninsured glasses would most definitely not be left on the arm of sofa in a shared apartment with or without dogs.

 

It's a tough situation and it's unfortunate, I hope they are able to work it out.

[Unicorn.]

Another way of looking at it. If she had left the glasses on the side of the couch, and roommate didn't see them, say she walked by in the dark in a robe that brushed them off onto the floor, then walked by again, still not seeing them, and stepped on them, who is at fault? If you have a $400 pair of glasses, and a roommate, you don't leave them laying around-kwim. I think a 50/50 split is more than fair. The OP's dd needs to be responsible for taking care of her things.

[Farrar]

I maybe odd but I am a firm believer that I can leave whatever I want out in my home.

:iagree:

It's strange to me that so many people seemed to think she was negligent for leaving her glasses out. I leave mine out all the time because it's my home! I don't think I'm negligent at all! I even leave them on the back of the sofa quite often before I go to bed. Now, if the dog is known for chewing up random things left out or if the roommate has warned her that unusual things are a target for the dog, then that's sort of another story, but it doesn't sound like that's the case.

 

That said, it's still a tricky situation and could so easily go wrong. Just... good luck.

[mycalling]

If the OP's DD didn't remember her glasses than she can't be certain she didn't knock them onto the floor herself on the way to bed. What if the dog found them on the floor?

 

I also think people are considering the place more the OP's DD since the roommate and dog spend 90% of their time in their bedroom. I think they both were momentarily careless and thus both equally responsible. I'd feel the same way if the roommate had sat on them herself.

[rhrice3]

I am sorry that this happened to your DD, but I tend to agree with Secular_Mom. Your daughter is 25 yrs old and living in a house with a dog and left a pair of BRAND NEW glasses around. I think that she was careless and it is a difficult lesson to learn, but she is really responsible for them. One of my daughters had eye issues and required expensive, out of pocket, glasses when she was 12yrs old. I told her from the get go that when they were not on her face, they should be in their case and in her room. We recently were able to donate those glasses.

 

I really think that your daughter might want to talk with her roommate about the dog and watching it when it is out, but I think that the glasses are your daughter's responsibility.

 

Good luck

ReneeR

[Tullia]

I'm sorry about your daughter's new glasses, but I do think that she has to take some responsibility for having left them out. Yes, the apt. is legally her space which she has the right to use but her roommate (with dog) can say the same. An apartment shared with a stranger is different than one's own place--which is why I never liked having a roommate with the exception of a summer when I shared a two bedroom apartment with a friend. Our being good friends didn't make it easy even though we had similar views on shared responsibility and a clear understanding on how to use the space. Only the bedrooms were considered totally private and we did not leave important stuff in common areas overnight or when we were out.

 

I do suggest that your dd think about whether or not this is a good situation for her. Beyond the broken glasses, I'd be wondering about having a roommate who apparently didn't leave a note or offer to pay at least something. How would this play out if something even more serious or expensive went wrong? IMO, if the roommate can't afford to cover damages caused by her dog, can she really afford keeping a dog? Also, will your dd be partially responsible or lose a security deposit if roomie's dog damages something in the apartment?

 

I would suggest that unless the roommate offers, your daughter replace the glasses with a budget pair herself and consider it a lesson learned. She also might want to either clarify expectations about use of the common areas or look for another roommate. YMMV.

[kitten18]

I think it is 100% the roommate's responsibility. We have a 2 year old golden retriever, he is a monster. He has eaten the stupidest things!!! But, DH and I both leave our glasses out, we would never think that he would eat our glasses (and he hasn't so far). He did eat my FIL's hearing aid last year :willy_nilly: Thank God he had insurance.

 

 

I also agree with the posters who said the price of the glasses is irrelevant.

[KidsHappen]

This is so, so true! If I go to a place on the list for our optical coverage, glasses *easily* cost FOUR TIMES what they do at less expensive places. And the wacky part is, the cheaper places *will* submit insurance and thus get me a (major) discount on the already cheaper glasses.

 

I don't know why the insurance is set up like that. But going to one of their endorsed providers is a terrible idea -- and that's been my experience with the last three optical insurance programs we've had.

 

 

I had no idea! I just go to someone who is a preferred provider by my insurance, pick what I want and then pay the difference between whatever my insurance covers and the cost. I don't know how much I actually paid for my glasses but I have a feeling that $400 is not far off and the amount did not sound terribly expenisve to me. I would have guessed that that was an average amount for glasses. :001_huh:

[katemary63]

You guys are amazing! And fascinating! Very interesting views. Thanks! DD has discussed it with her roommate and the roommate has agreed to help pay for a replacement. The amount has not been discussed yet because DD won't know how much the cost will be until she goes to her appointment at the optometrist next week.

 

After reading everything, I'm still feeling that 25% / 75% is fair. I don't think the dog has ever really chewed anything before so it's not like DD should have known. (But I'm not sure about that. She's just never mentioned it. I'll ask her.) Anyway, I do think leaving out the glasses leaves a small amount of culpability at her door. The majority belongs to the dog owner. DD is confident that they will work it out just fine. She is looking to move though - back to Arkansas where she will be near her family. She's got to find a job first though. I can't wait!

[foxbridgeacademy]

Your daughter JUST got the glasses and didn't put them away in her own room, while aware that there is a dog that lives in the house. That's the same as someone leaving glasses sitting on a couch knowing that a toddler lives in the house whether they actually care for or interact with the toddler or not. Hard lesson to learn, but her glasses are HER responsibility IMO.

 

Kind of agree with this Poster. She's 25, she should know how to put her glasses away. I have been wearing glasses for 20 years, and I always make sure they are someplace safe.

You can ask the roommate to cover a portion of the costs, %50, but if she can't or won't then I suggest your DD get a cheaper pair of glasses, and count it as a good lesson learned.

[clarkacademy]

Kind of agree with this Poster. She's 25, she should know how to put her glasses away. I have been wearing glasses for 20 years, and I always make sure they are someplace safe.

You can ask the roommate to cover a portion of the costs, %50, but if she can't or won't then I suggest your DD get a cheaper pair of glasses, and count it as a good lesson learned.

 

How would that be a lesson learned? That she is not safe in her home? Her property is not safe in her home? People should be responsible for their animals and their children. It really does not matter that was the other girls dog, she should pay for what he does.

[Melissa in Australia]

Everyone in our house except 6yo wears glasses + frames from Zennia. None has cost over $16/each, and that includes shipping, frames, and lenses.

:svengo: I cannot believe the price of things over there. Mine cost over $400, my dh's cost nearly $600 for frame and lens ( bifocals, change colour in the sun)

[arghmatey]

My DD25 lives with a roommate in a vary small two bedroom appartment. They are not friends. They were total strangers when they moved in together and have not become friends since, but they get along okay. The roommate has a dog that is kept almost entirely in her bedroom except when she is home and watching it. The roommate and the dog spend 90% of their time in their bedroom with the door closed. Jes does not take care of or watch this dog. When Jes is home, but the roommate is not, the dog is kept in a crate in the roommate's bedroom. Point being, the dog is not something Jes has much to do with or thinks about. It's not like there is a dog running around the appartment all the time.

 

So last night, Jes fell asleep on the couch and left her glasses on the arm of it when she got up and went to bed. This morning, she woke up to find her glasses on the kitchen table, chewed up by the dog. Apparently, while Jes was still asleep, the room mate let her dog out and didn't watch him. The dog found the glasses (on the arm of the couch) and chewed them up. Room mate must have found the dog with them and placed them on the kitchen table.

 

So, we are trying to figure out what is fair here. Jes has had these prescription glasses for less then a week! They were expensive and her work insurance paid for most of them, but her part was about $80. She has no replacement insurance, so it will cost her over $400 cash to replace them. My question is, what percentage do you believe Jes should request from the dog owner? 100%? or something less because Jes shouldn't have left her glasses on the arm of the couch? Thanks!

 

I would ask for 100%.

 

There is no reason Jes should not have had her glasses on the arm of the arm of the couch.

 

The roommate has established a reasonable expectation that she will supervise or contain the dog at all times.

[JFSinIL]

So if the glasses were on the arm of the sofa and the roommate didn't see them, sat down, they fell on the floor, and then got stepped on b/c she wasn't aware of them, still her fault? She is responsible for something she didn't see in a place she wouldn't expect?

 

Yes, she is responsible. It is not like they were placed under a sofa cushion!