The Things We Do For Men...

[secular_mom]

Wow, that's just sad. I guess you can console yourself with the fact that all those huge-chested teens are now saggy-chested middle-agers. :D

Yeh, I moved away from the family and don't have much contact with them now. Been out of contact with the 'friends' for oh 16 years now. I don't tend to hang around with adults who are that shallow (I mostly keep to myself) so AFAIK folks are no longer discussing my breast size. AND, I don't have to wear a bra :lol:

[Dana]

But I will NEVER go back to shaving. It is bondage pure and simple. I am sorry and I know many will completely disagree, but there is absolutely NO reason to waste huge amounts of my time and money and endure a deal of discomfort just to present societally acceptable legs and underarms.

 

However, I can say that the pressure that comes to bear against my internal conviction over this is insanely intense. In the winter it's not as bad. More people are covered up and I feel "normal". But I go through the same feelings every summer of seeing how everyone else looks and feeling so odd and having to go over my decision and retell myself that I do not need to SHAVE MY LEGS to FEEL VALUED! I'm yelling, because I cannot believe that this is still an issue and it underscores for me how ridiculous but real the beauty myth is and what a hold it has over us, even when we are consciously fighting it.

And I live in a fairly low key, granola type, pacific nw area. I mean it's not like I'm in LA or something...

Well that's my 2 cents I guess.

 

Jen

And don't even get me started on heels....

 

:hurray:

 

I quit shaving regularly because I scratch myself to the point of bleeding when I do. Dh is fine with it. I only wear makeup when I'm in a professional setting and I haven't worn a skirt in years. However the societal pressure (even if it's just in my head) does have me shave before doctor's appointments or if I wear shorts in the summer. I'm in the deep south so you don't see many women with furry legs.

 

I applaud women who are comfortable enough to go out unshaven - and appreciate them making the nonshaven look more normal.

[Parrothead]

:hurray:

 

I quit shaving regularly because I scratch myself to the point of bleeding when I do. Dh is fine with it. I only wear makeup when I'm in a professional setting and I haven't worn a skirt in years. However the societal pressure (even if it's just in my head) does have me shave before doctor's appointments or if I wear shorts in the summer. I'm in the deep south so you don't see many women with furry legs.

 

I applaud women who are comfortable enough to go out unshaven - and appreciate them making the nonshaven look more normal.

I just shaved three days ago. It had been months and months. I've been in long pants/shirts since September so there was no reason.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I've even gone out of my way to ask men over the years what they think of many of these things and their response has generally been, "It doesn't matter much to me." If anything, the trend seems to be that they want a "low maintenence" gal who isn't so made-up, which is quite the opposite of what Hollywood tries to tell us.

 

I have heard that over and over again ... but ... put the one they describe next to the big hair, big boobs, big heels woman. Which one will attract the eye? Which one will get drinks sent over to her? Women wouldn't do it if it didn't work. I've never seen a guy gawk at a low-maintenance kind of gal when there was a high maintenance peahen in the picture.

 

Now, for me personally, I wouldn't want a guy who gawks period, so I am thankful that dh doesn't do that or even mention it if he finds these things attractive.

[Plucky]

Yeh, I moved away from the family and don't have much contact with them now. Been out of contact with the 'friends' for oh 16 years now. I don't tend to hang around with adults who are that shallow (I mostly keep to myself) so AFAIK folks are no longer discussing my breast size. AND, I don't have to wear a bra :lol:

 

You'd be surprised how many women are probably jealous of your small breasts. I've had a c cup since 7th grade. It wasn't that easy to wear tank tops or other fun stuff without getting unwanted attention. Plus, exercising is so much easier with smaller breasts.

[Ibbygirl]

I disagree- I was constantly hounded by my female friends and family members for being 'flat' when I was in jr. high and high school, and even got a few comments from adult friends later. I think it's about feeling superior in our own minds-

"I have larger breasts which everyone finds attractive (NOT true, BTW) and you have teeny breasts which aren't as attractive that means that I have 'better' breasts than you and that makes me 'better' than you, and I'm going to point that out as often as I can just to make sure you know your 'place' and everyone else can see me prove how much 'better' I am."

 

You could substitute anything for breasts. "I own a Prius/Hummer/BMW/Mercedes/etc. so clearly I have the BEST vehicle" vs. "I ride a bike/I only own used vehicles/I use public transportation/etc." People are constantly sizing up their neighbors/friends/etc. to see where they 'fit' in society. If everyone could just choose what they think is the best choice and not worry about what other people think of their choices then the world would be a better place IMO.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Some women can be so horrible to each other. :( I'm sorry you went through this.

[AuntieM]

Yea, we do it for men--but we do it for other women, too. And then it becomes a female competition.

 

Yes, isn't this the pits? Not something I'd like to admit giving in to, and not so much in terms of competition, but just for general acceptance.... We have moved a lot and to just get in the groove and build new relationships, I have felt a lot of pressure over the years to adjust my wardrobe to a group's apparent requirements. Not to gain their approval, so much, but just to make that area a non-issue so I can get on with the getting-to-know-them, kwim? It's really quite absurd. And not something I've done for any man so much as for my hs-ing kids.

Edited January 15, 2011 by AuntieM

[AuntieM]

"Heather's homework again"??? What an odd tag for this thread. I guess this person didn't read my first post where I said this is about a fictional novel I am reading right now.

 

Of course I DO have plenty of homework to do if you are inclined to help. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

 

I don't mind if it IS your homework, you're giving me food for thought. Again. Thanks.

[goldberry]

I freely admit I would give up shaving in a heartbeat if not for the cultural pressure. It is definitely something I only do for that reason. I've wished for a day when all women would just agree in mass to stop shaving, then it would become normal. Can't we arrange that??

 

I love my earrings though, and I even wear my favorite scent just around the house because the way it smells makes me happy.:001_smile:

[Catwoman]

...I have felt a lot of pressure over the years to adjust my wardrobe to a group's apparent requirements. Not to gain there approval, so much, but just to make that area a non-issue so I can get on with the getting-to-know-them, kwim? It's really quite absurd. And not something I've done for any man so much as for my hs-ing kids.

 

I know what you mean. I remember attending a meeting of a local homeschool group when ds was only about 4yo, and it was my first real contact with other hsers.

 

I have to admit that they were polite, but they looked at me like I had two heads. (And I should add that I did not, in fact, have two heads; I just had the one head that I'm still wearing today, albeit a somewhat younger one at the time.) They were the ultimate, extreme crunchy granola variety of hsers, and I had never met anyone quite like them. They were so thrifty that they sewed cutesy little patches on their overall-shorts-things when they started to wear out. They weren't poor, just super-thrifty. ;)

 

I had never seen adults wearing overall-shorts-things to any sort of social event, nor had I ever worn any article of clothing to the point at which it would require patches. I had wanted to look nice for the meeting, so I wore a pair of trousers, a nice sweater, and some relatively conservative jewelry. I had makeup on, but nothing that screamed former-showgirl-on-the-skids, but anything more than Chap-Stick would have been a lot for these women.

 

I did. not. fit. in.

 

And I felt badly about it, because they were very nice and their kids seemed sweet, too. I wanted to fit in. I wasn't going to wear the hiking shoes and funky wool socks with the overall-shorts-things, but I still wanted to fit in. In sort of a semi-outdoorsy way, only with some eyeliner and lip gloss.

 

So I went home afterward and told my dh about it, and he asked me why I would possibly want to change myself to fit in with a group of people who were obviously so different from me.

 

I hate it when he's right. :glare:

 

So I didn't do it, which turned out to be the right choice. That group turned out to be a poor fit for us for many reasons, and the fashion requirements weren't even a real factor.

 

I have to be honest, though. I have never considered changing my appearance for men; the only time I nearly did it was so my ds could make friends with the kids from that group. And I wouldn't do it again. (Not that I look great or anything, but I just mean that I'm not willing to try to be someone I'm not.)

 

Cat

Edited January 15, 2011 by Catwoman

[BlsdMama]

You'd be surprised how many women are probably jealous of your small breasts. I've had a c cup since 7th grade. It wasn't that easy to wear tank tops or other fun stuff without getting unwanted attention. Plus, exercising is so much easier with smaller breasts.

I agree. I liked my curves in high school. As a grown up, I sure wouldn't mind being able to wear button down tops.

 

So, then how do jealous curvy women punish themselves? Why minimizers of course! So their tops fit correctly so they look nice without looking gaudy. :001_huh: Sigh. Can't win, can we?

 

Truth be told, I do a rather lot to impress the men... Well THE man. :) I like him and every two years I grow my hair long because I know he likes it. When it's short, I straighten it. I have indeed been known to change a dirty shirt or put on a skirt, or a little make-up before he comes home.

 

To be fair, guys do their fair share. I have a redneck "manly man" father who, for a long while, used mascara to hide the gray in his beard. I know plenty of men who would give anything to grow hair. Men dye their hair, go to gyms, and over-compensate with big vehicles, kwim? ;) They shave daily and some tan.

 

I won't do the tanning thing, but I will cop to the guilt that comes from rubbing ones cold legs & feet against their spouse after three days of not shaving. :) And if there were a magic cream that could take away the stretch marks on my tummy, then Abra Cadabra.

 

Oooh. And let's not forget my wonder cream. That's right ladies, as without it I would be offered a job from the nearest circus as the bearded lady.

 

And that's NOT for any man. I really DON'T look great with a mustache. I promise - that's all for me.

[OnTheBrink]

I agree. I liked my curves in high school. As a grown up, I sure wouldn't mind being able to wear button down tops.

 

So, then how do jealous curvy women punish themselves? Why minimizers of course! So their tops fit correctly so they look nice without looking gaudy. :001_huh: Sigh. Can't win, can we?

 

Truth be told, I do a rather lot to impress the men... Well THE man. :) I like him and every two years I grow my hair long because I know he likes it. When it's short, I straighten it. I have indeed been known to change a dirty shirt or put on a skirt, or a little make-up before he comes home.

 

To be fair, guys do their fair share. I have a redneck "manly man" father who, for a long while, used mascara to hide the gray in his beard. I know plenty of men who would give anything to grow hair. Men dye their hair, go to gyms, and over-compensate with big vehicles, kwim? ;) They shave daily and some tan.

 

I won't do the tanning thing, but I will cop to the guilt that comes from rubbing ones cold legs & feet against their spouse after three days of not shaving. :) And if there were a magic cream that could take away the stretch marks on my tummy, then Abra Cadabra.

 

Oooh. And let's not forget my wonder cream. That's right ladies, as without it I would be offered a job from the nearest circus as the bearded lady.

 

And that's NOT for any man. I really DON'T look great with a mustache. I promise - that's all for me.

 

Wonder cream? There's a wonder cream? Do tell!

[Ibbygirl]

I love my earrings though, and I even wear my favorite scent just around the house because the way it smells makes me happy.:001_smile:

 

Ooooh I do that too! :001_smile: I always put my perfume on after I shower even if I'm just showering to go to bed. I just like the smell of it even if it's only for me. :)

[Heather in Neverland]

I freely admit I would give up shaving in a heartbeat if not for the cultural pressure. It is definitely something I only do for that reason. I've wished for a day when all women would just agree in mass to stop shaving, then it would become normal. Can't we arrange that??

 

 

 

Try living in a tropical climate year-round. I have to shave my legs EVERY DAY. UGH!!! When I lived in Michigan I would go weeks without shaving during the winter. But not here.

 

If I could mentally get past the shaving legs issue I would do it. But for some reason I can't let my armpit hair grow. I know it is irrational but it just grosses me out.

 

I have already given up on eye shadow of any kind and I haven't worn pantyhose in almost two years and I wear cute "croc" sandals pretty much 7 days a week here so no more heels....well, I do have some crocs sandals with heels (they have such cute stuff now).

 

My next step? OK, big confession....deep breath.... I want to stop getting waxed. Dh loves it. But it hurts and it is time-consuming and expensive. So I am thinking about ditching it. I certainly don't do THAT for other women :D.

[Ginevra]

My next step? OK, big confession....deep breath.... I want to stop getting waxed. Dh loves it. But it hurts and it is time-consuming and expensive. So I am thinking about ditching it. I certainly don't do THAT for other women

 

Well, I'm thinking about getting the laser removal thingy and just be done with that whole area forever and ever and ever. :tongue_smilie: Although it's not just for dh, it's also because I really despise looking like I might be hiding a Yorkie in my drawers. :tongue_smilie:

[6packofun]

Yes, marriage to...a man who, because of the pressures of other men who created this standard, wants a woman with small feet. Men may have had the desire for it as a sign of sensuality and good breeding, IMO, but women bought into it and created the method, I think. So I get what you're saying, but I think both men and women are responsible! lol

[BigMamaBird]

I haven't shaved since before Thanksgiving! I don't shave in the winter and Dh likes to say "once you go Wookie you never go back!":lol: Of course, he does love the first leg shave of Spring.

[Alicia64]

I haven't read every post. . . but has anyone mentioned thongs??

 

Alley

[HRAAB]

I'm sure I'll catch flack for this, but my honest opinion is that while most women claim to bend over backwards to attract men, really they do it chiefly for social status among other women. I've heard much more censure on a woman who didn't conform to beauty standards of cosmetics, nice hair, weight and clothes from other women than I have from men. I've even gone out of my way to ask men over the years what they think of many of these things and their response has generally been, "It doesn't matter much to me." If anything, the trend seems to be that they want a "low maintenence" gal who isn't so made-up, which is quite the opposite of what Hollywood tries to tell us.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

 

But I do love my earrings, all seven of them.

[Ginevra]

... but ... put the one they describe next to the big hair, big boobs, big heels woman. Which one will attract the eye?

 

See, I agree, DER. Men buy calendars, men buy Playboy, men like magazines that show cars with bikini girls. I've never seen a magazine with a Harley and a natural-faced girl wearing a denim calf-length jumper and a pair of Birkenstocks. True, there might be a conflict where they like one thing to just browse and a different thing if we're talking wedding bells, but still - men do at least their fair share to perpetuate the standard of beauty. Women who try to match it are socially "rewarded" - by women and men alike.

 

P.S. Lots of women have cosmetic surgery that would not be obvious to everyone; not everyone who has a breast augmentation wants double-Ds, you know? Supposedly, the biggest segment of the population now having breast aug/tummy tucks are post-childbearing women in 30-45 age range. I truly do believe that the majority want these changes for themselves, although their husbands may not be objecting.

[cin]

P.S. Lots of women have cosmetic surgery that would not be obvious to everyone; not everyone who has a breast augmentation wants double-Ds, you know? Supposedly, the biggest segment of the population now having breast aug/tummy tucks are post-childbearing women in 30-45 age range. I truly do believe that the majority want these changes for themselves, although their husbands may not be objecting.

 

 

Yeah, I'd just like to put my back where they started. Heck, even halfway to where they started would be good at this point!!

[kiana]

See, I agree, DER. Men buy calendars, men buy Playboy, men like magazines that show cars with bikini girls. I've never seen a magazine with a Harley and a natural-faced girl wearing a denim calf-length jumper and a pair of Birkenstocks. True, there might be a conflict where they like one thing to just browse and a different thing if we're talking wedding bells, but still - men do at least their fair share to perpetuate the standard of beauty.

 

Here I think there is something. There are a lot of men who will ooh and ahh over the shiny sports car but really can't afford it due to the high maintenance/gas/etc. cost. :)

[JennyD]

Hair straightening. I've never done permanent hair straightening, but when I was single I always got more male attention with blown-out hair instead of my usual wavy/frizzy mass. DH readily admits that he prefers my hair straight, too, but he is adamantly against (1) the chemicals; (2) the $600 it would cost. And there's certainly no time for me to be fussing with a blow drier every day. So wavy it is!

 

When I was young I used to hate my hair, but now I think it looks fine. Still, if I were heaven forbid single and looking again, I'd go for the straightening treatment.

[Heather in Neverland]

Well, I'm thinking about getting the laser removal thingy and just be done with that whole area forever and ever and ever. :tongue_smilie: Although it's not just for dh, it's also because I really despise looking like I might be hiding a Yorkie in my drawers. :tongue_smilie:

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

Once and for all would be nice. I also do not want to go "gray" down there.

[justamouse]

I'm sure I'll catch flack for this, but my honest opinion is that while most women claim to bend over backwards to attract men, really they do it chiefly for social status among other women. I've heard much more censure on a woman who didn't conform to beauty standards of cosmetics, nice hair, weight and clothes from other women than I have from men. I've even gone out of my way to ask men over the years what they think of many of these things and their response has generally been, "It doesn't matter much to me." If anything, the trend seems to be that they want a "low maintenence" gal who isn't so made-up, which is quite the opposite of what Hollywood tries to tell us.

 

Exactly.

 

I have heard that over and over again ... but ... put the one they describe next to the big hair, big boobs, big heels woman. Which one will attract the eye? Which one will get drinks sent over to her? Women wouldn't do it if it didn't work. I've never seen a guy gawk at a low-maintenance kind of gal when there was a high maintenance peahen in the picture.

 

Now, for me personally, I wouldn't want a guy who gawks period, so I am thankful that dh doesn't do that or even mention it if he finds these things attractive.

 

But I think we've TRAINED them to like that.

 

If all the choices were non shaved women with no makeup, then they would be trained to like non shaved women with no makeup.

 

I know what you mean. I remember attending a meeting of a local homeschool group when ds was only about 4yo, and it was my first real contact with other hsers.

 

I have to admit that they were polite, but they looked at me like I had two heads. (And I should add that I did not, in fact, have two heads; I just had the one head that I'm still wearing today, albeit a somewhat younger one at the time.) They were the ultimate, extreme crunchy granola variety of hsers, and I had never met anyone quite like them. They were so thrifty that they sewed cutesy little patches on their overall-shorts-things when they started to wear out. They weren't poor, just super-thrifty. ;)

 

I had never seen adults wearing overall-shorts-things to any sort of social event, nor had I ever worn any article of clothing to the point at which it would require patches. I had wanted to look nice for the meeting, so I wore a pair of trousers, a nice sweater, and some relatively conservative jewelry. I had makeup on, but nothing that screamed former-showgirl-on-the-skids, but anything more than Chap-Stick would have been a lot for these women.

 

I did. not. fit. in.

 

And I felt badly about it, because they were very nice and their kids seemed sweet, too. I wanted to fit in. I wasn't going to wear the hiking shoes and funky wool socks with the overall-shorts-things, but I still wanted to fit in. In sort of a semi-outdoorsy way, only with some eyeliner and lip gloss.

 

So I went home afterward and told my dh about it, and he asked me why I would possibly want to change myself to fit in with a group of people who were obviously so different from me.

 

I hate it when he's right. :glare:

 

So I didn't do it, which turned out to be the right choice. That group turned out to be a poor fit for us for many reasons, and the fashion requirements weren't even a real factor.

 

I have to be honest, though. I have never considered changing my appearance for men; the only time I nearly did it was so my ds could make friends with the kids from that group. And I wouldn't do it again. (Not that I look great or anything, but I just mean that I'm not willing to try to be someone I'm not.)

 

Cat

 

Ohhh I've been in that position. But, I had also, in my younger years, been a granola crunchie. I had Birkinstocks WAAAYYY before they were popular around here.

 

But, to that circle, that way of dress in and of itself is a beauty standard. There's the award of Most Environmentally Aware and the kerchifed hair and patched jeans are a barometer of how devout they are. It's how they identify themselves to their tribe. Which is true for all of us.

 

I walked into the healthfood store the other day in my dress coat (Black camel hair) and scarf, and even with no makeup and not styled hair I was out of place. Everyone looked at me and I wanted to scream. I mean, I grew up going to the healthfood store, and I know a freakn lot about vitamins and natural foods and I BELONG THERE, people! Just because I don't wear hiking boots with overalls and wool socks doesn't mean I don't "get" the healthfood store.

 

Try living in a tropical climate year-round. I have to shave my legs EVERY DAY. UGH!!! When I lived in Michigan I would go weeks without shaving during the winter. But not here.

 

If I could mentally get past the shaving legs issue I would do it. But for some reason I can't let my armpit hair grow. I know it is irrational but it just grosses me out.

 

I have already given up on eye shadow of any kind and I haven't worn pantyhose in almost two years and I wear cute "croc" sandals pretty much 7 days a week here so no more heels....well, I do have some crocs sandals with heels (they have such cute stuff now).

 

My next step? OK, big confession....deep breath.... I want to stop getting waxed. Dh loves it. But it hurts and it is time-consuming and expensive. So I am thinking about ditching it. I certainly don't do THAT for other women :D.

 

I shave my calves in the winter and start waxing in the summer (because I cannot shave THERE, my skin is too sensitive and I'm cursed with having to shave *every day*. *g* Dh doesn't care, but when that first wax of the season comes he's all over it. It's that male Neanderthal brain that goes, "Bewbies...ohhh soft!"

 

 

I remember in the late 70s--my family was at a party. Well, I swam out to the ..dang, can't think of the word, not the dock-anywho! Got there and there was this girl in a bikini and she did NOT wax or shave and I was horrified and yet amazed. I had never seen a woman's pubic hair before-I had none yet and never saw Moms, and so looking back on that and reading this discussion--are we shaving away the signs of our maturity/sexuality and then reassigning that unacceptable sexuality to forms other women find more appropriate? ie makeup, hairstyles, shoes...

 

It's late, my words are not coming easily, I hope youz can decipher.

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

Once and for all would be nice. I also do not want to go "gray" down there.

 

We'll nickname you Samantha. ;)

Edited January 16, 2011 by justamouse

[Heather in Neverland]

 

 

 

 

We'll nickname you Samantha. ;)

 

I've been called worse. :D

[SonshineLearner]

The only thing that I think I am/would be willing to do... is shave:) I'm too tired for much else :) I kinda have small feet :) But that's just me :) I put make-up on.... kinda... and I brush my teeth and hair... oh yes... my biggest sacrifice.... is that I try to use henna in my hair... because it's turning grey. I won't be 40 till Sept. I'm too young for grey!!

:)

Edited January 17, 2011 by NayfiesMama
I'm gonna buy those little shorts.. that go with tankini's so I don't have to shave anywhere special this summer :)

[LG Gone Wild]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

Once and for all would be nice. I also do not want to go "gray" down there.

 

Which reminds of a Sex in the City episode. Samantha used to shave that area but grew it out for her boyfriend. She discovers, unhappily, that there is a gray hair. Carrie tells her to pluck it and Samantha responds with a very funny line which I can't repeat here, not even with symbols. Anyway, Samantha tries to dye it and the dye turns the whole patch into this weird clown pink color.

[Heather in Neverland]

Which reminds of a Sex in the City episode. Samantha used to shave that area but grew it out for her boyfriend. She discovers, unhappily, that there is a gray hair. Carrie tells her to pluck it and Samantha responds with a very funny line which I can't repeat here, not even with symbols. Anyway, Samantha tries to dye it and the dye turns the whole patch into this weird clown pink color.

 

Now I am forced to look that up. It sounds hilarious! :D

[kiana]

Now I am forced to look that up. It sounds hilarious! :D

 

If you're serious, it's episode 86. Plot summary (spoilers) at http://www.carriesdiary.com/86.html

[TravelingChris]

Well this has been an interesting read for me today because I was at a speech and debate tournament the last three days and I saw a lot of teens. I had just been thinking how some of these girls don't seem to have mothers who can advise them how to look nice. There were a number of girls with strange hairstyles that (at least to my eyes) weren't flattering at all and some who were dressed in just dowdy, unattractive ways. Then there were others who were dressed to kill. It made me wonder if the moms of the girls who weren't dressed or hairstyled well were doing this intentionally= so as to not have the teen girls attract the attention of the teen boys. I decided that at the next tournaments I am going to try to match up the mothers of these girls and see what they look like. The things I am speaking about are haircuts like bowl cuts or very old fashioned, and clothes that just detract from the natural appearance of the girl rather than enhance it.

[justamouse]

Now I am forced to look that up. It sounds hilarious! :D

 

That's what I meant when I said we'd call you Samantha. :D AWESOME episode.