WOW, just WOW re: my college writing class.

misidawnrn · January 13, 2011

I am in school (again) finishing my Bachelor's degree in Nursing in prep for getting my Masters...anyways, one of my classes is writing-101. I took a college writing class for my Associate's but they have changed it and got rid of the class I took and now have to take this other one...ugh. I am absolutely appalled at the writing skills of these "kids". I know here on forums, I type fast, sometimes don't use my ,':; correctly but holy cow!!! even my first grader knows that you capitalize proper nouns and the first word of a sentence. The instructor even told us in the syllabus to write your responses to the discussions in Microsoft Word to check for spelling and grammar and then copy and paste. Reading the syllabus must be optional. Here is a copy and pasted post from one student. (I have changed the names but left the capitalization etc the same)

hello my name is Lucy Bear. I live in alder Mt just west of Ennis. I have been a CNA for 5 years and I love helping people so my magor is nursing. I am engaged to lowell Utley and we have a 13 month old son together, they are my world. My hobbies are, but don't have much time to do, are horseback riding, swimming, camping, being outdoors, and yoga. My team is the New england Patriots so of course i think that they are going to win. Plus tom brady is hot but that is not the only reason that i like them, but its a big part.

ugh, just ugh! I am hesitant to say anything because I don't want to come off as a snob but really? It's a college level writing class for crying out loud. One student called me before class started and asked if I would be his partner. Apparently I delivered his 1st baby and he wanted someone who would "work as hard as him on assignments". I was dreading reading his first post...which I am happy to say had correct grammar, spelling and capitalization. In reply to his post I did say that I was happy he was my partner because he used capitalization correctly, which is a pet peeve of mine. My post was a little passive agressive so that maybe others will get the hint but really I ws just glad to see him post correctly.

OK, off my rant now. 15 more weeks...hehehehe

MorganClassicalPrep · January 13, 2011

I see this problem a lot in online discussions. Many people seem to assume that since it is an online discussion, proper grammar/capitalization etc. isn't needed.

But what is even better is when you are doing peer editing for a formal research paper that is 35% of the total grade in the class and realize that this is how many people in the class write, and it wasn't just an "online" thing!

Joker · January 13, 2011

I'm taking a few online classes this year. We had a 500 word essay for government due today and it's horrible. There are many that are so bad I just can't read them at all.

amey311 · January 13, 2011

The grammar, etc are really rough in that bolded paragraph. On the plus side, I could understand it. ;)

<s>That said, will you go back and edit the personal information of the student. Change the names. I'm sure it's all public somewhere else, but I don't know that Lucy wants her info on a homeschooling board without being asked.</s>

(I missed that the OP said she'd changed names)

Edited January 13, 2011 by amey311
i missed the edited name bit in the OP and have been trying to cross out the bit in my message. I didn't want to just delete

i.love.lucy · January 13, 2011

The grammar, etc are really rough in that bolded paragraph. On the plus side, I could understand it. ;)

That said, will you go back and edit the personal information of the student. Change the names. I'm sure it's all public somewhere else, but I don't know that Lucy wants her info on a homeschooling board without being asked.

She said she changed the names.

OP, I feel for you. Painful.

January 13, 2011

I have tried googling but I failed...

does anyone know of a place online where I can read essays written by high school and college students?

amey311 · January 13, 2011

She said she changed the names.

OP, I feel for you. Painful.

Thanks for pointing that out. I read too quickly.

I'm sorry I missed that, OP. I'll go edit my other post.

The Girls' Mom · January 13, 2011

After reading some of the student papers and discussions for my dh's seminary classes, this doesn't surprise me at all. It's horrible. My 5th graders write better in some cases.

My #1 educational goal for my girls is for them to be able to write at a college level before they graduate. (actual college level, not the level that many college students seem to write these days)

Mom-ninja. · January 13, 2011

One of my dh's jobs is to write computer programs for users. He had to write up a new program for using the menu plans at a hospital. He was floored when he was told to go back to the drawing board as his program would not work. Why would it not work? Because the main chef at that hospital could not read. My DH sat there scratching his head trying to figure out how to put together a computer program that was user friendly for people who can't read.

I asked DH why the hospital didn't pay to give the chef tutoring. They do have an employee education reimbursement plan.

justamouse · January 13, 2011

i hate capitlaizing on forums and in e-mails (unless it's someone like an account)

BUT when i write an article, it's done right.

the example you showed-there's no excuse

misidawnrn · January 13, 2011

Yes, rest assured, I changed all of the names, first and last. I left her original capitalization and spelling and grammar intact. We have to do peer reviews of every paper. I am afraid that many many papers are going to be poorly reviewed by me. I guess I am just shocked by the writing. No way in heck would I think that was acceptable in college. I know when I went the first time 17 years ago it sure wasn't allowed. Granted, internet and texting were unheard of and all assignments were actually done on white paper! Imagine that! :lol:

jenL · January 13, 2011

My niece, who is in her first year of college, recently showed me her portfolio for her English 101 class. In it, she was to compile her 5 best papers and show the progression of them from rough to final. I was amazed (and saddened) to see all the grammatical mistakes in her FINAL drafts: run-on sentences, lack of punctuation, the letter "I" not capitalized, etc. I did not tell her about my disappointment because she was so proud that she received an A on it; however, in my head I was thinking, Seriously, did her teacher really think this was A-quality work??? I know things have been dumbed down, but at the college level at a great university??? I guess it has truly become *that bad*! Ugh...

OP, I'm grateful for you that you have a partner who appears able to write properly! Have an excellent semester!

RegGuheert · January 13, 2011

Hopefully YOU do not get marked down for using proper spelling, punctuation and grammar! :tongue_smilie:

FaithManor · January 13, 2011

When I was in college, it did not matter what class your writing assignment was for, ALL were graded for grammar. Every single one from every single department went to the English Department for grading by grad students who could write very, very well. Errors were underlined in red and then returned to your professor. In my freshman Psych 101 class, we wrote three major research papers and each was ten pages or more in length. It was graded first for content and then every ten errors in grammar cost the student a letter grade from that!

Those were the good old days.

Most students today would have been EATEN ALIVE by my college professors.

Faith

FO4UR · January 13, 2011

My mom is doing master's level work online...she's a nurse too btw. She has the same complaints...MASTER'S LEVEL (a specialized area)....I thought that last bit was worth repeating in all caps...how does one get to MASTER'S level course work w/o basic grammar and writing skills??? She will go on...she understands that several are highly educated people who happen to speak English as a 2nd language....many more are graduates of USA high schools and colleges. I hope their math is better than their grammar...nurses measuring doses and weights and other important things.:001_huh:

I say, "Yep. That's why I homeschool, mom!":lol:

In the Rain · January 13, 2011

My dh works with high school kids trying to get in to the college he attended. Sometimes he has students contact him with an email similar to the one in the OP. The capitalization, spelling and grammar are random. There will also be some texting lingo (u for you, ur for your). He reminds them that an underlined word is spell check's attempt to help them :D and their college future is affected by how they present themselves. Every one of them has stepped up and made drastic improvements.

My long winded point is that your classmates probably have better skills than they are displaying. For some reason, they are choosing not to apply them. :tongue_smilie: Hopefully once they get a review from you, they'll shape up. :D I feel for you though. It would be nice to see students you at least felt were in your same league, KWIM?

JenC3 · January 13, 2011

My dh teaches English for several online universities and you would not believe the lack of basic abilities. The reason for this is the lack of pre-reqs to attend said school. These are students who should often not be in college. He has taught on ground for big state and mid size state as well as for a private school. The standard pay for a adjunct, someone with a MA or PhD is around 24k. This is to teach a 4/4 load. I think often it's burnout and apathy for the instructor. They don't get paid anything and the universities load up their classes with tons of students. My dh does video lectures, accept phone calls, and get back to his students within 24 hours. He is actually compensated better teaching online than in the classroom.

angela in ohio · January 13, 2011

Dh found such a horribly low level of writing skills in his Master's level school administration classes :001_huh: that it boggled the mind. I would edit his group projects, and I would basically have to re-write everyone else's work so that dh wouldn't get a poor grade. The online interactions were the worst, but not that much worse than what they were willing to hand in to the professor.

Likewise, I took an online Adolescent Psych class for my teaching degree last semester. It was horrifying to see the grammar and spelling issues from future Secondary English teachers. :glare: Of course, the professor didn't know the difference between affect and effect or your and you're, so what can you expect?

ocelotmom · January 13, 2011

This is exactly why I hate online classes.

I took several of my nursing prerequisites online. Here's some direct quotes from my nutrition class:

* Adolescents need meat and veggies to survive properly.

* I love double doubles! Meat is my friend. If a teenager were to ask me if I thought a vegan or vegetarian diet would be good for him or her, I would say, No Way!

* I THINK TEENS SHOULD IN FACT EAT IN & OUT OR WHAT EVER THEY WANT, OF COURSE IN MODERATION. (Different person from the above)

* I agree with you it is very hard to be a vagan because we have all this fast food available to us. It is hard but not impossible as long as the diet is well planned and balanced so you don't lack any nutrients. (Again, a different person)

* I think it is appropriate for adolescent to be vegetarian because if they choose and plan well-balanced diet rich in fruits and vegatables, but no sweets, no fast food and no salty snacks. (From the same person as above)

* I know from personal experience that I've lacked nutrients when having a vegan diet. For religious reasons, rather than having the choice of what to give up, in my faith, our lent consists of a vegan diet. During lent, my diet mainly consists of tortillas, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, french fries, and shrimp. I lack many nutrients during this time.

Most of my fellow students were also pre-nursing, and the lecture which we were supposed to have read ahead of time talked about ways in which one could have a healthy vegetarian/vegan diet.

I REALLY dislike online classes. I've taken a bunch, and have had ONE where I felt the teacher was actually involved at all. In most of them, it was all just "Post your answer to this closed-ended question with one correct answer, and then reply to two other people's postings" which simply result in a lot of "good answer" or "you got this nitpicky thing wrong", with no attempts to address misconceptions or mistakes on the part of the teacher, either in lecture (which is generally the powerpoint included with the teacher's edition) or on the discussion board itself.

Mejane · January 13, 2011

This is not unusual for college-level writing and is not only indicative of online writing. My friend, a college English prof, tells me she often feels the urge to weep while she's grading papers.

Pretty in Pink · January 13, 2011

But what is even better is when you are doing peer editing for a formal research paper that is 35% of the total grade in the class and realize that this is how many people in the class write, and it wasn't just an "online" thing!

Isn't that the truth? Two semesters ago I had an instructor ask me to stop being so critical in my peer reviews because my feedback was discouraging to my classmates. One of my classmates turned in a final draft that was three pages long. It was all one paragraph. I am not kidding.

ocelotmom · January 13, 2011

This is not unusual for college-level writing and is not only indicative of online writing. My friend, a college English prof, tells me she often feels the urge to weep while she's grading papers.

I'm sure :) It's just rare to see other students' written work outside of online classes (or English/Comp classes involving peer review).

elise1mds · January 13, 2011

:blink:

:ack2:

:banghead:

:leaving:

That's really all I have to say.

Ginevra · January 13, 2011

I totally hear ya! I just finished my first college writing class last fall and I had the same stunning discovery. We had to peer-review papers. I couldn't believe my eyes! The first 3 papers I read were atrocious! Endless run-on sentences, no concept of where a comma goes or the purpose of ending punctuation. The funnier aspect was that these three "authors" were reviewing my paper in turn! One student kept making "corrections" to non-mistakes. For example, she pointed out a sentence fragment in a direct quote. I explained to her, "You see, it isn't important that this is a sentence fragment. It's quoted material; it's exactly what John Holt said." She was :001_huh: at me.

I truly cannot imagine how one gets to college with writing skills that are about 2nd grade level.

January 13, 2011

I totally hear ya! I just finished my first college writing class last fall and I had the same stunning discovery. We had to peer-review papers. I couldn't believe my eyes! The first 3 papers I read were atrocious! Endless run-on sentences, no concept of where a comma goes or the purpose of ending punctuation. The funnier aspect was that these three "authors" were reviewing my paper in turn! One student kept making "corrections" to non-mistakes. For example, she pointed out a sentence fragment in a direct quote. I explained to her, "You see, it isn't important that this is a sentence fragment. It's quoted material; it's exactly what John Holt said." She was :001_huh: at me.

I truly cannot imagine how one gets to college with writing skills that are about 2nd grade level.

That's a very good question.

Ginevra · January 13, 2011

One of my classmates turned in a final draft that was three pages long. It was all one paragraph. I am not kidding.

:lol::lol: I completely believe it, because I peer-reviewed a research paper exactly like this!

I often thought, "This poor professor. I don't think I could stand it."

Big Buckin' Longhorn · January 13, 2011

In my Comp 2 class a couple of semesters ago, there were several people in class who couldn't even follow basic directions. If the teacher directed us to put our name in the top right-hand corner of the paper, you'd better believe that half the class had their names centered at the bottom of the paper. It was ridiculous! The run-on sentences, lack of parenthetical citations for DIRECT QUOTES, lack of paragraphs at all, etc . . . was atrocious.

I ended up holding writing workshops during peer review time in class. This was for a class where everyone had to prove they had passed COMP 1 with a C or above.

So sad. My son and I took that class together. I made sure he wrote to MY expectations, not the professor's. We both easily got an A. ;)

KatieH · January 13, 2011

Yeah. Peer-reviewing in my college English class made me want to cry.

When I graduated high school, my English teacher told me that she always put my essays at the bottom of the pile, so that she would have something good to read after the rest. :lol: I wouldn't blame it solely on instructors, too many people just don't care!

Mimm · January 13, 2011

I sympathize. I use capitalization and punctuation in text messages. :p So when you have a full sized keyboard in front of you, I don't see what the issue is. I do typo some (mostly from typing quickly and I'll just type the wrong word so spell check doesn't catch it), and the occasional mistake doesn't bother me, but when it's clear that a person isn't putting forth as much effort in being understood as you are having to put into actually understanding him, then I get annoyed. It's just rude at that point.

katemary63 · January 14, 2011

This is not unusual for college-level writing and is not only indicative of online writing. My friend, a college English prof, tells me she often feels the urge to weep while she's grading papers.

:iagree: I believe it. I went back to school after my 3rd baby at the age of 30. I took an intro to philosophy class and ended up in a study group with others who were mostly freshman. They all asked me to read their papers before they handed them in. I was given the FINAL drafts. The kids were asking my opinion on their content and the logic of their arguments, NOT grammar and sentence structure. I didn't read a single paper that I thought was worthy of a senior in high school, let alone a college student. The writing was appalling and mostly incomprehensible. Sentence structure was so bad as to make the intended meaning of the author undiscernable. I just couldn't believe it. This was 17 years ago.

NanceXToo · January 14, 2011

I truly cannot imagine how one gets to college with writing skills that are about 2nd grade level.

I don't know, but reading stuff like this gives me more confidence in my choice regarding homeschooling my kids lol.

Joker · January 14, 2011

This is thread is so timely. I mentioned earlier that we had an essay due for my online government class today. I copied and pasted my first peer response below.:001_huh:

"I know, what to do with GTMO. Are they war criminals, enemy combatants or terrorist?

We will never know if there is no trail, but do they deserve the same rights as you and I.

I think that it needs to be on case by case bases, but who will decide which ones should get a trail.

There are fact out there why each person is there and possible a panel could be set up to make a chose

of we gets a trail and who would not. Iâ€™m sure that there are several prisons in GTMO that just pose a to

grate of rise to our country and should be locker up forever.

One a lighter note I was station in GTMO for 2 Â½ years in the mid 90â€™s while in the Navy.

The Island is a tropical paradise clear blue water fishing boating and even a little surf every so often."

NoPlaceLikeHome · January 14, 2011

Yes, rest assured, I changed all of the names, first and last. I left her original capitalization and spelling and grammar intact. We have to do peer reviews of every paper. I am afraid that many many papers are going to be poorly reviewed by me. I guess I am just shocked by the writing. No way in heck would I think that was acceptable in college. I know when I went the first time 17 years ago it sure wasn't allowed. Granted, internet and texting were unheard of and all assignments were actually done on white paper! Imagine that! :lol:

Hopefully the instructor is the final reviewer IMHO. IMHO I think peer review may be a waste of time since many do not receive adequate writing and grammar instruction.

Jean in Newcastle · January 14, 2011

This is thread is so timely. I mentioned earlier that we had an essay due for my online government class today. I copied and pasted my first peer response below.:001_huh:

"I know, what to do with GTMO. Are they war criminals, enemy combatants or terrorist?

We will never know if there is no trail, but do they deserve the same rights as you and I.

I think that it needs to be on case by case bases, but who will decide which ones should get a trail.

There are fact out there why each person is there and possible a panel could be set up to make a chose

of we gets a trail and who would not. Iâ€™m sure that there are several prisons in GTMO that just pose a to

grate of rise to our country and should be locker up forever.

One a lighter note I was station in GTMO for 2 Â½ years in the mid 90â€™s while in the Navy.

The Island is a tropical paradise clear blue water fishing boating and even a little surf every so often."

OK - it took me almost until the end to figure out what was being talked about!

The Girls' Mom · January 14, 2011

"I know, what to do with GTMO. Are they war criminals, enemy combatants or terrorist?

We will never know if there is no trail, but do they deserve the same rights as you and I.

I think that it needs to be on case by case bases, but who will decide which ones should get a trail.

There are fact out there why each person is there and possible a panel could be set up to make a chose

of we gets a trail and who would not. Iâ€™m sure that there are several prisons in GTMO that just pose a to

grate of rise to our country and should be locker up forever.

One a lighter note I was station in GTMO for 2 Â½ years in the mid 90â€™s while in the Navy.

The Island is a tropical paradise clear blue water fishing boating and even a little surf every so often."

I let my daughters read this...they said "wow...that's pretty bad mom!" (even my 10 year olds thought it was horrible...lol)

Joker · January 14, 2011

I let my daughters read this...they said "wow...that's pretty bad mom!" (even my 10 year olds thought it was horrible...lol)

:iagree:Yep, my oldest is almost 11 and I knew she could write better than that. There are even worse essays and I just don't get it.:confused:

NanceXToo · January 14, 2011

:iagree:Yep, my oldest is almost 11 and I knew she could write better than that. There are even worse essays and I just don't get it.:confused:

Uh huh. My daughter who turned 10 recently can DEFINITELY write better than that!

misidawnrn · January 14, 2011

Hopefully YOU do not get marked down for using proper spelling, punctuation and grammar! :tongue_smilie:

Me, too...that would be hypocricy at it's best wouldn't it? Hopefully, my checking, checking and rechecking will prevent that. I am not perfect by any means but hopefully it will be better than "tom brady".

Edited January 14, 2011 by misidawnrn
punctuation error...hehehehe

Hen · January 14, 2011

you guys are making me re-think my hopes of attending college when my youngest is highschool age, and doesn't need so much of my time. I always hated group projects, I didn't realize there was so much use of peer review in college classes. :tongue_smilie:

Pretty in Pink · January 14, 2011

This is thread is so timely. I mentioned earlier that we had an essay due for my online government class today. I copied and pasted my first peer response below.:001_huh:

"I know, what to do with GTMO. Are they war criminals, enemy combatants or terrorist?

We will never know if there is no trail, but do they deserve the same rights as you and I.

I think that it needs to be on case by case bases, but who will decide which ones should get a trail.

There are fact out there why each person is there and possible a panel could be set up to make a chose

of we gets a trail and who would not. Iâ€™m sure that there are several prisons in GTMO that just pose a to

grate of rise to our country and should be locker up forever.

One a lighter note I was station in GTMO for 2 Â½ years in the mid 90â€™s while in the Navy.

The Island is a tropical paradise clear blue water fishing boating and even a little surf every so often."

Wow. :001_huh:

Ravin · January 14, 2011

DH took ENG 105 last semester (English Comp rolled into 1 semester for English majors), and I wound up reviewing several of his papers because the peer reviews he received were so useless. He also spent a good deal of time reviewing others' papers and effectively tutoring them; he certainly made himself well-appreciated by the professor! He got an A in the class. He'd been out of school for quite a long time, but he's a literate and well-read adult who has done plenty of writing in his professional career (restaurant management).

FloridaLisa · January 14, 2011

I was so underimpressed by oldest's freshman English class (dual-enrolled at a 4-yr university), that my next two are taking AP Eng. and AP Lit to earn their college English credits. After all of the great books we'd read, the book discussions, his outside lit tutorial and the writing we had done, I was really shocked that the core requirements were a slim paperback and watching pop culture shows on t.v. :001_huh: So disappointing.

Lisa

texasmama · January 14, 2011

Haven't read all of the replies...

I am an adjunct professor at a large university. I have had graduate students who wrote more poorly than that example. It is truly appalling.

FaithManor · January 14, 2011