ds15 had a LOADED gun pointed at him today

[Denisemomof4]

For crying out loud, the OP can not 'MAKE it a threat'- it was a threat. Raising your fist to someone is threatening to strike them whether you actually strike them or not. Grabbing a person by the neck is threatening to choke them whether you actually choke them or not. Pointing a gun at someone is threatening to shoot them, whether you actually shoot them or not- even if the gun is not loaded. It's really not rocket science folks. Weapon poised to harm someone is a threat.

 

and this is something the immature kid needs to understand.

[Denisemomof4]

 

I think the father being a police officer makes that much more difficult. I'm assuming that this incident happened in the jurisdiction of the father's department.

 

No, he works in a different town.

 

I am trusting this father/officer to do the right thing, and I hope that opinion doesn't change after dh and he talk.

[jplain]

:grouphug: I hope the father takes this seriously and reconsiders the wisdom of giving his son a gun.

 

To me, intent doesn't matter when a real gun is pointed. Hundreds of accidental shootings have demonstrated that benign intent doesn't prevent death and devastating injury.

 

While the law in NH may be liberal with respect to gun use, I doubt the law allows anyone to point real guns at others in fun. What this child did is most likely considered assault.

 

Denise, I feel for you. I know I'd want to end their friendship. In a perfect world, my child would choose to end the friendship. But I know that's not realistic. However, I would have a very hard time allowing my child to continue the friendship without some new conditions. I would most definitely tell the other boys' parents, regardless of how the boy's family handles it. I would want to know.

[Denisemomof4]

Denise, I agree completely with you that this would be one for my husband to handle. I also think waiting to CALM DOWN is a good idea. I am so glad your son told you and that he is ok. What does he think of the situation? Was he scared or just mad at his friend? Teens have such a complex about living forever that sometimes they don't realize how dangerous a situation is.

 

he was scared AND angry. I'm really glad he was how serious and STUPID this was of his friend.

[southcarolinamom]

Oh Denise, what a situation! I look forward to hearing how everything gets resolved -- and am so thankful that your son didn't get hurt.

 

I'd let my husband handle it, too ....

[katemary63]

Oh my gosh. I don't even know what to say, but I don't know how you can not tell the kid's father. I mean, what if he KILLS someone??? I'm so sorry Denise. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I would appeal to your DS's love and concern for his friend. Talk to him till he gives you permission to talk to the father or agrees to talk to the father himself. But the father MUST be told. That's not an option. You would never be able to forgive yourself if you did not and someone else is hurt or killed. This is a difficult situation to be in, but it's not at all difficult to know the right thing to do. Sorry. :grouphug:

[Nakia]

Denise,

We all know you are a wonderful mother who loves her kids more than anything. For some to insinuate that you are not taking this seriously is ridiculous. I admire you for not going over there and knocking the crap out of that kid. Taking an evening to talk it over with your son and your husband, and then addressing it today was a great decision. Letting the dads talk about it and work it out is probably the best thing to do. :grouphug: I'm so glad your son is okay.

 

When I was in 10th grade, two of my friends (two 11th grade boys) were playing with a gun, and one of them accidentally shot the other one in the face and killed him. That was one life lost, but two lives ruined. Two families ripped to shreds, all because those two boys were immature and playing around with a gun. If any person thinks "play", "joke", and "gun" belong in the same sentence, they are obviously not mature enough to own, or have access to, a gun. I think it's very possible that you, your husband, and your son can save a life with this conversation.

[Heatherwith4]

:grouphug: to you Denise! I think it's a good idea to let your DH handle the situation. I hope your son's friend learns from this mistake.

[Annie G]

Denise, I hope you'll attend the meeting. I'm sure you trust your husband to recount the conversation, but having both of you there may allow you to compare what was said-- was it lip service or did the dad mean what he says?

 

I'm not implying that your son did anything wrong- so please don't take this next part the wrong way. You could remind the dad that his son had no malicious intent but that your son reacted in a way that COULD have led to the gun going off. When his son brandishes a weapon, how does he know how someone will react? What if the other guys had come to your son's defense and had tackled his son...if the gun discharged, it might have been his own son hurt.

 

I hope the dad reacts in a way that makes you feel secure that your son can still hang with his group of friends.

[kristavws]

Circumstances wouldn't matter to me. Kid has shown he cannot responsible be in the same house as an unlocked hand gun, not that I would ever believe a 15 year old COULD be.

 

I agree that you really need to tell the father. My dad was a police officer, and we had guns in the house that were not locked up. My brother and I both knew that if we EVER touched them there would be severe consequences, and so we NEVER did. We both probably had a different perspective as to what guns could do though, than your son's friend. My dad's best friend was shot and killed in the line of duty.

 

I really think the dad would want to know.

 

Krista

[Tylianna]

I haven't read ALL 11 pages, so I don't know if what I am saying has been said already, but here I go.

 

I would be scared, too. I also, would not know what to do at the exact moment. I hope no one here is making you feel like you are doing something wrong! Your DS did the RIGHT thing in telling you what happened! Good for you, that you raised your son to be able to tell you things like that!

I agree that SOMEONE needs to be told. Telling the father is the best way to handle the relationship between your DS and his friend, since it doesn't involve paperwork or legalities. Sneaking behind his back and filing a report might make it worse.

 

I would think that a police officer's son would have more responsibility than that, but I am nieve.

 

You said that you had an issue with your son skateboarding without your permission, especially with this friend. You still let your son hang out with this friend, so that shows that you DO trust your DS and that you are not the one to cut ties with his friend for something 'minor' (I'm not saying a concussion is minor, but compared to a loaded gun, it is). If you were to set restrictions on a relationship with this friend, I hope that your DS would understand that it is the irresponsibility that his friend showed that provoked you to do that, and NOT because you don't want him to skateboard.

 

Of course, you don't have to listen to MY advice... my oldest is only 9! But, I have teenaged neices and a nephew that I deal with constantly, and I remember the things I thought when I was a teenager. I don't know if I would have told my own mom if a gun was present anywhere that I was at, even if it was loaded and pointed at me.

Like I said, kudos to you and your son for having the relationship to do so!

[Rene']

Whether loaded or not, one should never point a gun at someone unless there is intent to shoot.

 

This story is so very sad, but is an excellent example of how "playing with guns" and being irresponsible with them can be devastating.

 

Lincoln newlywed kills his wife while playing a game.

 

Being irresponsible with guns.

It is clear that this tragedy was unintentional. To experienced gun handlers, the photographs of abhorrent gun handling speak for themselves. This family, the entire family, did not have a clue as to how little they knew. They were dangerous and had no appreciation for the lethal weapons in their hands.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Rene'

[justasque]

Another point that has not been covered, is that the other boy brought the gun out when your ds was there, regardless of whether he pointed it at anyone. He had no way of knowing that your ds wouldn't do something stupid with it. Even if the other boy knew all the rules of gun safety himself (which obviously he doesn't), he should not assume that any friends he has over will act in a safe way with his gun. He cannot assume that they are knowledgeable about guns and/or gun safety guidelines. Do you see what I mean? He broke gun safety guidelines not just by pointing the gun at your ds, but also by showing the unsecured gun to your ds in the first place.

 

If you keep a loaded gun in your home, not locked up, IMHO you shouldn't be showing it to people, lest the wrong person get the wrong idea. It should *not* be common knowledge to a 15 year old's friends where to access a loaded gun. This is the kind of information that can spread beyond the boy's immediate circle of friends, as one boy tells another about seeing the gun. Had a young friend or acquaintance taken the gun and used it on others or himself, then beyond just the tragedy, the dad could be liable (both legally and morally).

 

If you have an unsecured loaded gun in the home, you must do your best to be absolutely sure that every single person who knows about it or could happen upon it has been rigorously trained in gun safety and can be trusted to behave accordingly.

 

Another point - where the heck were his parents? They left a teenager alone in the house, with an accessible loaded gun, and allowed the teen to have friends over without any adult supervision?

 

When I have teens over, I am usually around somewhere, hovering in the background, feeding them, asking after their parents or siblings, walking through the room on my way to do laundry, and so on. (I know not everyone can do this, of course.)

 

Your discussion with the father (is there a mom in the picture?) could become difficult if there is blame thrown around. I would take the attitude of "this was a very dangerous situation, how can we work together to be sure it never happens again, and to make sure that other possible scenarios (another teen taking the gun) are made unlikely".

 

(BTW - I don't know what your community is like. I know that in rural life, guns are a daily part of life and different norms may apply. However, in my experience anyway, the vast majority of rural kids who have grown up with guns would never play around with them, and their parents would be livid if something like this had occured.)

[Catwoman]

Don't jump to conclusions. What would make you think that? You are wrong if you think I wasn't horrified or livid. Just because the parents weren't addressed yesterday doesn't mean that I wasn't alarmed, horrified or terrified. I was. I still am.

 

Making the decision to do nothing YESTERDAY was the right thing to do. I had to be in the right frame of mind. I'm so glad I waited. Actually, I think I'm going to hand this one to dh to handle.

 

I'm sorry I misunderstood your intentions, Denise.

 

Having read your new posts this morning, it sounds like you've come up with a good plan of action, and that your dh will be speaking with the boy's father. I know that, in your situation, I would want to be right there with my dh, but a "man to man" approach might be more appropriate, as well as more comfortable for the other dad.

 

Again, please accept my apologies. You were having such a rough day yesterday, and I hope I didn't add to the stress.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Cat

[Impish]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Caterpiller]

:grouphug:

[newlifemom]

Praying for you.

[kwickimom]

:grouphug: We are pro gun and all my kids will know how to work one and will own by the age of 10. BUT they will not be able to LOAD a gun in the house, unless they are needing to protect us from an intruder.

 

It is irresponsible of both parent and child to allow a gun to be loaded for no reason. ETA- if a gun is out of its case and in a persons hands. I am not against keeping a loaded gun in a lockbox that is unaccessable to children. If we are going to target practice, we do not load the guns until we are all set up and ready to shoot. We never walk around with a loaded gun. When we go hunting, we dont load the gun until we are safely in our tree and it gets unloaded before we get down.

 

So, my kids will own guns, but the ammo is kept locked and seperate and under no circumstances are they allowed to load a gun to show a person anything. If they want to show someone the guns, a prent must be present. And that is the rule until they leave my house. We check our guns every.single.time we remove them from the case to make sure they are UNloaded.

 

A 15 YO kid of a cop knows very well NOT to point a loaded gun at someone, or at least he should. He should suffer serious consequences for those actions, and IMO is reckless.

Edited November 12, 2010 by kwickimom
typo

[elfgivas]

:grouphug:

 

i was horrified by the title of the thread, but now am just sick that so many have stories to tell that are so awful.

 

:grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

I'm sorry I misunderstood your intentions, Denise.

 

Having read your new posts this morning, it sounds like you've come up with a good plan of action, and that your dh will be speaking with the boy's father. I know that, in your situation, I would want to be right there with my dh, but a "man to man" approach might be more appropriate, as well as more comfortable for the other dad.

 

Again, please accept my apologies. You were having such a rough day yesterday, and I hope I didn't add to the stress.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Cat

 

I'm sorry I was defensive! Some people don't really understand what I'm saying, that is clear through PM's. But I don't care anymore. It appears the rest of you here do.

 

Thank you!!!:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

BTW, I'm not going to go because I just don't want to get emotional again. I'm REALLY bad at confrontation, but I do it when I have to, usually concerning my kids.

[nono]

:grouphug::grouphug:

 

Let us know how it goes...if you don't mind. Thinking good thoughts here!

[mcconnellboys]

I'm sorry, but I would not allow him to go to the house EVER again as long as that gun is there and loaded. I would most DEFINITELY talk to the parents. Immediately. Strongly. I'm shaking just reading what you wrote. And I would talk to the friend, myself, any time he's in my presence....

[angela in ohio]

I don't give a rats behind WHAT any pro-gun folks have to say about that.

 

Just to clarify: pro-gun rights does not mean pro-"untrained teens playing with guns." :001_smile:

[Remudamom]

I don't have the energy to read all of this, but my son would not be going back. Ever.

And I'm about as pro gun as it gets. I am however, anti-idiot.

[tricia]

Oh my, this is not good. And I am a gun owner/user. Very comfortable with guns. My military experience was a small armed specialist. BUT, this is NOT acceptable. In my opinion if at all possible your son should be counseled to lose him as a friend. Maybe show statistics of how many "accidental" shootings occur between 'friends' and situations such as this. I know what it's like to have a 15 year old son. In fact now that I think about it I have a 15 year old son!:lol: Who knows full well how to handle a weapon, the when's, where's, and all that. If you can, try to keep him from the other boy for a time. Let this pass and all that. Hopefully his father, being a PO will be able to deal with this.

 

Good luck

[QuirkyKapers]

You have been in my thoughts and prayers all weekend. Please let us know how this all turned out:grouphug:

[Denisemomof4]

You have been in my thoughts and prayers all weekend. Please let us know how this all turned out:grouphug:

 

I'm sorry, I should have posted my update here but I started a new thread. Here it is:

 

http://welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223931

 

thank you for keeping us in your thoughts and prayers!!!!:grouphug:

[MariannNOVA]

Hi, Denise: Just saw this - heavens, you must have been a wreck. So relieved to hear that it is resolved. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: You did the right thing --

[gardening momma]

I need to first get ALL the details. I had some strong words for ds yesterday but I needed to take time to think about this before discussing further. I want to know how he was able to shove the kid into a wall while he was holding a loaded gun. We need to get to the bottom of this.

I haven't gotten to the end of the thread yet, but wanted to mention that I hope you will stress to your son how serious it is that he shoved someone with a gun. That it's just as serious as the kid who pointed the gun. He needs to learn how to react in a situation like that. Not to instinctively shove, but to instinctively hit the floor.

[Denisemomof4]

I haven't gotten to the end of the thread yet, but wanted to mention that I hope you will stress to your son how serious it is that he shoved someone with a gun. That it's just as serious as the kid who pointed the gun. He needs to learn how to react in a situation like that. Not to instinctively shove, but to instinctively hit the floor.

 

this is another bit I forgot to update. After we had a long discussion I asked him how it was that he pinned a kid up against a wall, a kid with a LOADED gun, and not get shot? He said he waited until the gun had been put away. THEN he let go on him.

 

My stomach was in knots all day Friday while he was at school. I just kept wondering how he could have done that, WHY would he take a chance, etc. He did well.

[gardening momma]

this is another bit I forgot to update. After we had a long discussion I asked him how it was that he pinned a kid up against a wall, a kid with a LOADED gun, and not get shot? He said he waited until the gun had been put away. THEN he let go on him.

Good to know. How did he react while the gun was pointed at him?

[Denisemomof4]

he did nothing physically but told the kid it was "not cool" etc. Honestly, those initial details...... I don't remember all he said. I was just in such shock AND driving the car........ I don't completely remember getting us home, IYKWIM! I think he told him to put it away, etc, but my memories are vague.

[gardenmom5]

I don't care how you look at it...pointing a loaded gun at someone is NOT a joke. :001_huh:

:iagree:

[tex-mex]

thank you. I'm not going to respond to everything else posted, but let me say this:

 

I will be having ds read this entire thread. I need him to understand from other's point of views, too, not just mine.

 

Thank you.

Let your son know this was a situation in which no one wins. Life is not fair. Legally, the parent of that teen (if he is a police officer) can be sued or lose his job if word gets out. Not to mention CPS intervening and taking the teen into foster care. Regardless, tell your son SOMEONE has to say something to the parent of that teen. It is a dealbreaker, period. The next person may be fatally wounded or worse the son of that cop in prison for manslaughter.

[tex-mex]

I am glad your ds took it well. That was tough. But you did the right thing. I have a friend whose father is a police academy officer with many years of distinguished service and is an expert armsman. While in the middle of an academy lesson -- he was demonstrating how to clean a weapon -- and shot himself in the face. He is fine but very disfigured from a freak accident.

[JennyD]

Oh my goodness, how horrifying. I'm so glad that your son is all right.

 

I would absolutely, positively tell the boy's father. And if his reaction is anything other than shock and horror, I would go over his head to someone else at the police department.

 

Why does the boy's father think his son needs 'protection'? Is he connected to gang activity? Because obviously that would be another reason for your son to stay far, far away.

[Denisemomof4]

Oh my goodness, how horrifying. I'm so glad that your son is all right.

 

I would absolutely, positively tell the boy's father. And if his reaction is anything other than shock and horror, I would go over his head to someone else at the police department.

 

Why does the boy's father think his son needs 'protection'? Is he connected to gang activity? Because obviously that would be another reason for your son to stay far, far away.

 

no, because they were robbed. There was also a story that made national news a couple of years back where a home invasion ended in a dead mother and an extremely critical 11 year old.