People of faith, do you befriend "others"?

[astrid]

Thanks for the hugs, Lion. What Molly doesn't understand (and frankly, I don't either) is that we ARE Christian, just not attending a church right now. So I guess we're not "Christian enough?" We've also declined a couple of the family's invitations to attend church or church-related activities with them, but always done so kindly and politely and grateful for the invitation.

 

So I'd really like to know what some of these "non-christian values" are to which Michelle refers. That way I'll know if we've inadvertently displayed some. :001_huh:

 

Seriously, they're kids. Is it so very CHRISTIAN to reject my dd out of hand because she spends an hour of time on Sunday differently than they do?

 

astrid

[MeaganS]

I do, and I expect my children will as well. I'm LDS, but my group of friends in high school were Jehovah's Witnesses, Methodist, Buddhist, Catholic, and Baptist. I also had several Muslim friends that I hung out with occasionally. In fact, I didn't really have any other friends of my faith. I guess that was mostly because there weren't very many around. I have no problem being friends with people of other religions. I find that most people who are devoted to their religion are moral, good people. Their doctrine may differ from mine, but so long as we don't debate those issues and have mutual respect for each other, that's not an issue.

 

Actually, though, I guess I haven't really had many friends who weren't religious at all, though. Hmm, I wonder why that is? I never realized that before. I have nothing against non-religious people. Maybe I just have more in common with those who have a strong set of religious beliefs? I don't know.

[PiCO]

So we can only talk about rude Christians, but not rude atheists? ;) :D

 

I'm not talking about the atheists who just prefer Christians not to be "boisterous." I'm talking about the ones who get offended if your dc responds, "went to church," when asked what they did the day before (Sunday.) Or the one who shouted, "I just hate all those Christians, anyway" while sitting on a park bench next to me at a play group for our inclusive homeschool group, knowing I was a Christian, and expected me not to be offended.

 

Yeah, I hate those ones- and I'm an atheist!

 

Obnoxious people come in all stripes.

[JennyD]

I'm Jewish (reform) and have friends and family members of a variety of faiths, although I surely have a disproportionate number of Jewish friends. I'd also say that I find that I reach a certain comfort level more quickly with other Jewish women, but OTOH neither of my two closest friends are Jewish.

 

I have a couple of Modern Orthodox friends who I doubt know any non-Jewish people outside of their work, but I could be wrong about that (I should ask -- it's an interesting question). There are also some ultra-Orthodox groups that emphatically don't have anything to do with folks outside their group, but that most definitely includes other Jews (like me) as well as non-Jews.

 

I do find the notion that my children could be perceived as a dangerous influence on Christian children somewhat amusing, in a depressing sort of way. This survey:

 

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

 

puts Christians at 78% of Americans and Jews at 1.7%. And it looks like worldwide 33% of people identify as Christian and a whopping (not) 0.22 percent identify as Jewish:

 

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Edited October 25, 2010 by JennyD

[HRAAB]

Thanks for the hugs, Lion. What Molly doesn't understand (and frankly, I don't either) is that we ARE Christian, just not attending a church right now. So I guess we're not "Christian enough?" We've also declined a couple of the family's invitations to attend church or church-related activities with them, but always done so kindly and politely and grateful for the invitation.

 

So I'd really like to know what some of these "non-christian values" are to which Michelle refers. That way I'll know if we've inadvertently displayed some. :001_huh:

 

Seriously, they're kids. Is it so very CHRISTIAN to reject my dd out of hand because she spends an hour of time on Sunday differently than they do?

 

astrid

 

When I hear non-Christian values I tend to translate that to mean non-Christian beliefs. Being moral or having values and raising children in a moral home is not exclusive to Christians. The non-Christian friends I have share the same values/morals that I do. We don't let our dds dress like little hookers, we screen movies, music and books for inappropriate content, we don't let our dds invite boyfriends over for the night and do not approve of promiscuous behavior in any way, shape or form, we insist on honest and integrity - basically we have the same standards.

 

I do think many Christians are afraid of their children leaving Christianity due to outside influence, and that is what they are trying to guard against. If two families share the same family values (especially sexual morality) but the only thing that is different is the belief system, then it appears it's the difference in beliefs that the parents are trying to protect their children from.

[scrapbookbuzz]

I tend to talk to everyone meet so I do wind up with friends who do not believe as I do. I'm a devoted follower of Jesus but that certainly doesn't make me any better than anyone else. He just gives me a hope and a strength that I have yet to find elsewhere.

 

I will pray for you as I know small towns can be a difficult situation, esp. if you're the one who's 'different'. May you find some like-minded folk to call your friends!

[In2why]

This is how it is in my town. You have to sign the statement of faith to join the group, and my dd also goes to a homeschool gym class, but it seems that all the other families are members of that group. This is what prompted me to ask the original question (which I hope didn't offend anyone - I have a tendency to word things the wrong way :blushing:). I guess I did word my OP wrong. It's more that I don't want to get my hopes up if other people in the class aren't going to want to spend time with us, than it is that I don't want to put forth the effort to find out. I was asking to figure out what my odds were that the parents of at least one of the 3 girls DD really plays with a lot at class would want to let them be friends. I've been trying to decide what to do, since I don't want DD's feelings to get hurt if they wouldn't. It looks like our odds are very good, though, so I'm relieved!

 

I haven't read past the above post, so off to finish. Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

 

If you have noticed that the girls get along and the Mom at least smiles and greets you, I would take the chance. The worst thing that could happen is that she says no. If it were me, I would casually mention that the girls seem to like one another, and if they would like to join you guys for lunch at McD's after class next week. That way it is a short get to know you type thing, and afterwards if it goes well then it makes it easier to set up a playdate.

 

I also use humor when setting up get togethers for the first time. I usually hit on the concerns right up front. Something like, "Okay the particulars....we have pets but they don't bite, we have guns but they are locked up in a solid metal gun cabinet, and the ammunition is in a separate place, I do smoke but outside only and not when engaged with the kids. We have passed criminal background checks but I can get you references if you want. I do feed the kids sugar, but only right before I send them home." Usually by that time we are both laughing, and it breaks the ice, while still showing that I take kids safety seriously, but not too seriously if you know what I mean. And frankly it weeds out people who we probably wouldn't mesh with.......or wouldn't mesh with us.

 

As for spiritual concerns, that can get tricky, but is a matter of respect. The same Mormon family worried that I would mind if they prayed before eating.....nope we pray, we just don't pray during Science class :D, and even if we were athiest I would teach the kids to sit silently while they prayed. I worried about bringing my coffee mug to her house for an early morning get together.....nope they don't do caffiene, but she doesn't care if I do and I wouldn't bring Pepsi for either her kids or mine. Yet if she is at my house, I pour my iced tea and offer her lemonade or kool-aide.

[In2why]

So we can only talk about rude Christians, but not rude atheists? ;) :D

 

I'm not talking about the atheists who just prefer Christians not to be "boisterous." I'm talking about the ones who get offended if your dc responds, "went to church," when asked what they did the day before (Sunday.) Or the one who shouted, "I just hate all those Christians, anyway" while sitting on a park bench next to me at a play group for our inclusive homeschool group, knowing I was a Christian, and expected me not to be offended.

 

 

Rude people come in all forms apparently. What was your response to this woman with no sense, and even less manners? I can't even imagine what would instigate such a statement.

 

But at the same time I think we can all agree that is is much more common for Christians to share their faith, then athiest to share their lack of it. Afterall it is part of the Christian mission to bring others to God.

[May]

My dearest friends are both christian and from the same faith group. Since I've been married, my world revolves around my church. Most activities we do are church related or with people that go to our church. Maybe I need to get out more:001_smile:

[In2why]

:grouphug: I'm sorry for your dd.

 

From my experience growing up around people who were christian, and NOT exposed to other faiths, beliefs, etc, I've seen a real fear of how non-christians behave. Again from my experience, so it's not a blanket statement :D, but it's a fear borne of ignorance really. It was stated earlier but it's the belief that christians somehow are the only moral, ethical creatures in this world. It doesn't take a belief in Jesus as the one and true son of God to be a good, moral, and just person.

 

I would challenge anyone who believes that to read Marcus Aurelius' Meditations or look into the true nature of other faiths.

 

 

I think this is worth repeating. Some of the most moral people I have known have been non-Christians. We have a park that was built for differently abled children, that was a 3 year project by the local "biker bar". They raised hundreds of thousands of dollars and put in the sweat equity. It is a beautiful, wonderful place where children of all abilities can play. But the local governing officials nor the churches wanted to be involved because it was spearheaded by the group affiliated with the bar.

[lionfamily1999]

We are Christians living in a small town and have friends from various backgrounds and beliefs. I did know homeschoolers (when I was younger) that would not allow their kids to interract with anyone outside of their church, but I haven't encountered anything like that as an adult. If your play group is not a part of a particular church, then those kinds of people are probably not in it ;) They'd prefer to be in a group with just those people they want to hang out with.

 

I've lost friends, because I am a Christian. This weekend I had two long time friends unfriend me on fb, because of my "overt and irritating Christianity." Most people know what is going on in my life right now, and if I'm thanking God here and posting an 'inspirational song' there, then I would think that would be perfectly understandable. Apparently these people could not understand it. I've dropped friends for mocking my faith and some for issues they had that I just could not handle. Those things could lead someone to believe that I don't want to be friends with non-Christians :shrug:, but I have to do what is right and sometimes that's walking away. IOW, it may look like Christians don't want to play nice, but sometimes we get burned too.

Just so I understand you clearly, could you define "non-christian values?"

Maybe give some examples? Are you under the impression that all non-Christians are running around, wantonly harming others and having sex as middle schoolers?

 

Or is it something less dramatic?

 

I'd really like to know, as if you recall my thread of early this summer when my dd was befriended by a conservative, evangelical Christian girl who moved in around the corner. Molly has been nothing but polite, kind, respectful and a wonderful friend, and has been very hurt lately because the girl told her that because we don't attend church she can't play with her. It's a hard thing to explain to my Christian but not church-affilliated dd why her Christian friend doesn't like her anymore because of the activity schedule of an hour of Molly's time on Sunday morning.

 

astrid

Oh Astrid :( I'm so sorry to hear this.

 

Do they know you're Christians? Perhaps they think they've been barking up the wrong tree, so to speak. They've given invitations and you haven't bit, maybe they feel like you'd rather not be friends with them? I think I missed the original thread so you could have covered all this, in which case, sorry for dredging it all back up again.

[Sweetpeach]

Yes.

 

I'm much more interested in the "others" than I am the "church-ies" though I love my church and pour all sorts of energy into our community.

 

There is something very special about staying in the game with people who really challenge my thinking and force me back to the scriptures, over and over again. I love connecting in meaningful ways with people who don't think like I think.

 

Yes, I love the "others" --

 

T

[elegantlion]

Thanks for the hugs, Lion. What Molly doesn't understand (and frankly, I don't either) is that we ARE Christian, just not attending a church right now. So I guess we're not "Christian enough?" We've also declined a couple of the family's invitations to attend church or church-related activities with them, but always done so kindly and politely and grateful for the invitation.

 

So I'd really like to know what some of these "non-christian values" are to which Michelle refers. That way I'll know if we've inadvertently displayed some. :001_huh:

 

Seriously, they're kids. Is it so very CHRISTIAN to reject my dd out of hand because she spends an hour of time on Sunday differently than they do?

 

astrid

 

We're not in a church either. It's by a choice, a choice brought on by a lot of pain and hurt by people in the church. I really dislike it when people assume we are taking Sundays off because we're somehow lost and removed from God.

[KidsHappen]

All my friends are either family or here and there is just as much diversity in my family as there is here. My children have visited a variety of churches (with their friends) and my 17 year old, who is not even Christian, has been to Catholic Mass more than most Catholics and in three different languages no less.

[Mrs Mungo]

Just so I understand you clearly, could you define "non-christian values?"

Maybe give some examples? Are you under the impression that all non-Christians are running around, wantonly harming others and having sex as middle schoolers?

 

Or is it something less dramatic?

 

I'd really like to know, as if you recall my thread of early this summer when my dd was befriended by a conservative, evangelical Christian girl who moved in around the corner. Molly has been nothing but polite, kind, respectful and a wonderful friend, and has been very hurt lately because the girl told her that because we don't attend church she can't play with her. It's a hard thing to explain to my Christian but not church-affilliated dd why her Christian friend doesn't like her anymore because of the activity schedule of an hour of Molly's time on Sunday morning.

 

astrid

 

I'm sorry your dd had to go through that, astrid, it was very ugly.

 

It's been my experience in life (raised in the church, went to youth groups and church as a teen, go to church now) that:

 

1. Non-Christians are as likely to follow traditional conservative values as Christians.

 

2. Christian families are as likely as anyone else to have issues with teen rebellion, drinking, pregnancy, etc.

 

3. Church-going does not necessarily mean Christian. Christian does not necessarily mean church-going.

[Ester Maria]

There are also some ultra-Orthodox groups that emphatically don't have anything to do with folks outside their group, but that most definitely includes other Jews (like me) as well as non-Jews.

Oh yes. We have a few extended family members who consider our family and, specifically, our daughters to be "a dangerous secular influence". :glare: However, those are the same relatives who consider "open-minded" an insult, so... (We still see each other and all, but yep, tensions can sometimes arise when somebody is really into their religion and the perception of everything outside of it as inherently bad.)

 

I have to say, however, that I have generally felt very warm and accepted with most of the people of all shades of Orthodoxy (and, of course, with the non-Orthodox); I also have extraordinary experiences with Catholics, probably due to having grown up in a country with a Catholic majority, but generally I feel at ease with them as well.

 

Generally I don't have problems with religious friends and with my children having religious friends, as long as there isn't proselytizing involved. We're certainly not expecting any of our friends to "hide" their religiosity, but I do not feel comfortable with somebody if I sense they have this hidden agenda behind our friendship. Usually I prefer to skip the subject of religion altogether and focus on those things that bind us rather than divide us.

[PineFarmMom]

What if I said that life is so busy that I feel I have a hard time getting out and befriending ANYONE right now?? :tongue_smilie:

 

Back when I had 3 children and no high schoolers (whose school work seems to overwhelm me), I think I did a much better job of this and didn't put too much thought into whether a friend for me was Christian or not. It's been a couple of years, but one of ds' best friends from gymnastics came from an atheist family. The mom and I hit it off like we'd known each other for years. She let me know right quick that she knew about Christ, the gospel, etc., and wasn't interested. I didn't push that with her, but I didn't hide from her, either, things about my faith that mattered to me. In other words, I wasn't going to avoid speaking of that part of my life just to avoid offending her. It all worked beautifully!!

 

Anymore, it's not that I'm avoiding anyone. It's just that I feel like I'm running here and there to such a degree that I don't stop and socialize with anyone very often. :sad: I believe that once the baby gets a bit older that will change. When the baby gets older, I'll have more kids in my homeschool, so I may just be dreaming!!! :lol:

[Amy loves Bud]

Obnoxious people come in all stripes.

 

Can I get an amen? ;)

[2_girls_mommy]

Haven't read them all, but I do. I can't imagine a Christian not. We wouldn't be a Christian in my mind if we didn't. Now, I may not let my kids hang out with people with no morals, regardless of faith.

 

But honestly, our best neighborhood friends have a father who is an atheist. He is a very nice man, and is not offended by me, nor me by him. We have them over once a week. I do pray for them, but I pray for most of my friends and family.

[justamouse]

We're not in a church either. It's by a choice, a choice brought on by a lot of pain and hurt by people in the church. I really dislike it when people assume we are taking Sundays off because we're somehow lost and removed from God.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

I'd really like to know, as if you recall my thread of early this summer when my dd was befriended by a conservative, evangelical Christian girl who moved in around the corner. Molly has been nothing but polite, kind, respectful and a wonderful friend, and has been very hurt lately because the girl told her that because we don't attend church she can't play with her. It's a hard thing to explain to my Christian but not church-affilliated dd why her Christian friend doesn't like her anymore because of the activity schedule of an hour of Molly's time on Sunday morning.

 

astrid

 

oh ugh. That is just horrid.

 

Me, being a brat, would say, "That's because they're hypocrites, honey, here, let's learn how to spell it."

 

Well, just tell her that Jesus loves, them, too and she's no less a Christian because she doesn't go to church. :grouphug:

 

I heart you too!! I wish you lived close to me! I know we could be great friends!!

 

Hooo yeah. That would be dangerous. In a good way. :D

 

I think this is worth repeating. Some of the most moral people I have known have been non-Christians. We have a park that was built for differently abled children, that was a 3 year project by the local "biker bar". They raised hundreds of thousands of dollars and put in the sweat equity. It is a beautiful, wonderful place where children of all abilities can play. But the local governing officials nor the churches wanted to be involved because it was spearheaded by the group affiliated with the bar.

 

The most moral person I know is an atheist. She is utterly amazing and I love her so much. My deepest lessons in God have come from her and she lovingly challenges me to walk my faith-mind you, she does it better than I do.

[Hedgehog]

What if I said that life is so busy that I feel I have a hard time getting out and befriending ANYONE right now??

 

For me, right now, :iagree: Life goes in phases, and I'm in this one - so flippin' busy with extra ballet lessons and practices for upcoming exams and a house move that I've barely time to do the laundry.

 

But to be honest, the whole issue can be quite difficult at times. I'll admit that firstly, I'm very shy in company and particularly where I don't know anyone, so that tends to hold me back from seeking such situations. I find it easier to talk to people one-to-one.

 

I suppose one seeks company for different reasons. Sometimes you will enjoy a conversation with someone very different from yourself, interesting because it opens up a new life perspective that you hadn't seen before. Other times, you look for a conversation or company where you can talk about your beliefs in order to be encouraged, which would be hard to do with someone who had limited knowledge of your beliefs and/or held opposing views - and that doesn't just apply to a religious belief, it applies to all sorts of beliefs about morality, society etc. I don't believe there's anything wrong with seeking different kinds of communications. IMO, the danger lies in not being prepared to listen to someone else's point of view, and in not accepting that it is alright to be different whether you understand it or not.

 

Despite being what I would term a conservative Christian, we have been refused membership of more than one homeschooling group because I was unable to sign an agreement to their statement of faith. I found that a bit sad, really. I don't know whether anyone else has had that experience?

 

But really, being part of a group and being able to get along with people is so much more than the question of religion. There are many things that we value, like inclusiveness, honesty, openness, cheerfulness, etc. that I've found in abundance in secular groups and we've been so happy to be part of it.

[kalphs]

Yes, I do. But when my dc were little, much of our time was spent at church so that there wasn't the opportunity to meet others who were not Christians and spend significant amounts of time with them, KWIM?

 

Also, my non-Christian friends tend to have very similar values to mine--that would be one of the things that attract us to each other; I would have been less likely to spend time with non-Christians who were very much involved with things like the occult, or who smoked or drank to excess, or whatever.

 

So, yes, my dc and I had non-Christian friends, but we still had many common interests.

 

I do have friends who don't want their dc contaminated by non-Christians, but in my denomination, that isn't usually an issue. I cannot speak for others.

:iagree:

Our family's experience is quite similar to Ellie's.

We lived in a major Midwest city for seven years which contained an eclectic population of different ethnic/faith backgrounds or no faith background at all.

However we left the major city several years ago due to Dh's employment in a smaller city. Within the local homeschooling group we belong to I would venture to say majority of the membership doesn't want their Christianity contaminated, so they don't reach out to people of other faiths/religions. Because of our previous experience we are "rebels" and will continue to reach out to others regardless of their background.

[Ravin]

Well, most of my local friends I met through the SCA, so they tend to be of varied religious backgrounds. Some aren't religious, some are Christian (including LDS) or Pagan. Many I have no idea what their religious beliefs are. My closest local non-SCA friend is an evangelical Christian, and of the moms in the neighborhood of kids DD plays with, the one I've made the best acquiantance with is LDS.

 

What I actually lack are friends here of my own religion. Opportunities for social networking in the Heathen community are somewhat limited, and tend to involve a lot more time/travel than we can afford right now.

[Joker]

The most moral person I know is an atheist. She is utterly amazing and I love her so much. My deepest lessons in God have come from her and she lovingly challenges me to walk my faith-mind you, she does it better than I do.

 

:iagree: The only thing I would change is the she to he. My dh is an atheist and I knew that when I married him. I am a Christian and he knew that when he married me. Crazy as it may seem he has been the one to keep me on the right path when I've struggled. He actually has better morals and values than many of the Christians we know.

[asta]

For me, right now, :iagree: Life goes in phases, and I'm in this one - so flippin' busy with extra ballet lessons and practices for upcoming exams and a house move that I've barely time to do the laundry.

 

But to be honest, the whole issue can be quite difficult at times. I'll admit that firstly, I'm very shy in company and particularly where I don't know anyone, so that tends to hold me back from seeking such situations. I find it easier to talk to people one-to-one.

 

I suppose one seeks company for different reasons. Sometimes you will enjoy a conversation with someone very different from yourself, interesting because it opens up a new life perspective that you hadn't seen before. Other times, you look for a conversation or company where you can talk about your beliefs in order to be encouraged, which would be hard to do with someone who had limited knowledge of your beliefs and/or held opposing views - and that doesn't just apply to a religious belief, it applies to all sorts of beliefs about morality, society etc. I don't believe there's anything wrong with seeking different kinds of communications. IMO, the danger lies in not being prepared to listen to someone else's point of view, and in not accepting that it is alright to be different whether you understand it or not.

 

Despite being what I would term a conservative Christian, we have been refused membership of more than one homeschooling group because I was unable to sign an agreement to their statement of faith. I found that a bit sad, really. I don't know whether anyone else has had that experience?

 

But really, being part of a group and being able to get along with people is so much more than the question of religion. There are many things that we value, like inclusiveness, honesty, openness, cheerfulness, etc. that I've found in abundance in secular groups and we've been so happy to be part of it.

 

If you want to hop one of those periodic ₤1 Ryanair / bmi baby / etc. flights across the pond, you can come to the group I started! It was in response to a group such as that. We have an amazing group of people from all walks of life.

 

 

a

[Heather in Neverland]

I am a fairly conservative christian and my one best friend of 12 years is Jewish and my other best friend of 6 years is an extremely liberal kind of gal (like the kind with a master's degree in women's studies :D). We completely respect each other's beliefs and it has never been an issue in our friendship. In fact, I think I am a richer person for having these ladies in my life.

[Kates]

Yes, I do. Many of my friends are conservative Christians (like I am), but several are agnostic/atheist, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, and humanist.

 

I guess honestly, character traits draw me to (or away from) people a lot more than beliefs. I know what I believe, and I know why (as does ds), and I'll gladly share that info with anyone who asks...but I certainly don't believe that spending time with people outside my beliefs is going to "contaminate" me or pull me away from my faith in the least. If I did, I'd have to say that my faith was pretty weak, kwim?

 

The things that would make me decide not to befriend someone is if they did things like regularly drinking to excess, letting their kids run wild/not caring to be involved in their kids' lives, cussing like crazy just for giggles, having a toxic personality...that sort of thing. Honestly, my life is crazy enough without inviting in that kind of chaos. :tongue_smilie:

[Tarreymere]

I have seen a lot of homeschool groups that require a statement of faith in order to join. I have heard of homeschool conventions that require a statement of faith to even get in the door. I know a lot of folks who do not associate with nonchristians and will not allow their children to associate with nonchristians.

 

I do not associate with those kinds of people and I do not join those groups or attend those events. I have to wonder if those folks have ever actually read the New Testament.

[ereks mom]

Yes, I do. But when my dc were little, much of our time was spent at church so that there wasn't the opportunity to meet others who were not Christians and spend significant amounts of time with them, KWIM?

 

Also, my non-Christian friends tend to have very similar values to mine--that would be one of the things that attract us to each other; I would have been less likely to spend time with non-Christians who were very much involved with things like the occult, or who smoked or drank to excess, or whatever.

 

So, yes, my dc and I had non-Christian friends, but we still had many common interests.

 

I do have friends who don't want their dc contaminated by non-Christians, but in my denomination, that isn't usually an issue. I cannot speak for others.

 

:iagree: Same here. :001_smile:

[Hedgehog]

If you want to hop one of those periodic ₤1 Ryanair / bmi baby / etc. flights across the pond, you can come to the group I started! It was in response to a group such as that. We have an amazing group of people from all walks of life.

 

 

a

 

:001_smile: Thank you - sounds great, Asta! Diversity is so incredibly enriching!

[katemary63]

Short answer: yes, we do. Absolutely.

 

:iagree: