Poll: Is it unethical to flashing lights to warn of speed trap

[Margo out of lurking]

What do you think?

 

There is a stretch of highway here that has been a notorious speed trap for three years. I drive it several times a week, and I'm so sick of it that I've begun flashing my brights at oncoming traffic to warn them when I see a police officer.

 

Part of me has no problem with it, part of me feels guilty for some reason.

 

(Let's see if I can get this posted as a poll.)

[NanceXToo]

It's common courtesy! :D

[AndyJoy]

How do other drivers know why you are flashing them? How can you tell that they are speeding?

[Miss Peregrine]

I flash my lights sometimes. I am married to a CHP officer. :D

[NanceXToo]

How do other drivers know why you are flashing them? How can you tell that they are speeding?

 

Really? That isn't universal in the U.S.? It was a common thing to do when I lived in NY, and it's common (not as common as NY but still common) here in PA, too.

 

You can't necessarily tell if people are speeding, but if there's a group of cars coming up or that appear to be moving quick you just flash your lights a few times to warn them to slow down, there's a cop parked somewhere ahead.

[shinyhappypeople]

You're encouraging people to NOT break the law. How could this be a bad thing?

[pqr]

It slows people down and potentially saves someone a deal of money. I certainly appreciate it when other drivers warn me. It is also not only done in the US but in parts of Europe as well.

 

I know a US police officer who does this as he feels the intent of traffic stops should be to slow people down not take their money.

[Laura Corin]

If you think that the speed limit is incorrect, then perhaps you should lobby to get it changed. If you think that the speed limit is correct, by flashing you are allowing people to avoid punishment for breaking the law. Perhaps being caught is exactly what they need to stop them causing an accident next time by careless speeding.

 

FWIW, husband was caught for speeding last year. He broke the law and paid his fine. He was wrong and accepted it.

 

ETA: an example. I was going through a school 20mph zone and spotted a policeman. A driver passed me heading into the zone at speed. Five minutes later I came back through the zone and the speeding driver had been caught by the police. Had I flashed him, he might have killed a child the next day, because he would have escaped the wake-up call. As it was, he has a fine and points on his licence. And he just might think twice.

 

Laura

Edited September 18, 2010 by Laura Corin

[forty-two]

How do other drivers know why you are flashing them? How can you tell that they are speeding?

 

It's not that you know whether they are speeding - it's just a common signal that there is a speed trap ahead, and as a pp said, it's common courtesy to let other drivers know.

 

I consider it perfectly ethical, as you are basically telling people to obey the speed limit, which is the ostensible goal of the speed trap anyway.

[aggieamy]

Here in the mid-west we know what flashing lights mean. I think it's a nice thing to do. It slows people down which is exactly what the police are trying to do. It's almost as if your helping the police. :001_smile:

[Jen500]

I don't really think in terms of it being ethical/unethical.....just that if a driver is not speeding in the first place, they don't have to worry about getting a ticket.

 

I'm not sure what you consider a speeding trap. Are they ticketing drivers who are only going a few miles over the posted speed limit? Or is it a section where drivers regularly go waaay over the limit?

[LaissezFaire]

If it's encouraging another driver to slow down that I do not see how it could be unethical. I'm also married to a CHP officer.

[pqr]

Seems I am in the minority, because I don't do it and don't think people should.

 

Do you slow down when someone does it for you?

[JVA]

It's done very commonly here in northern VA- especially near the historic areas- like the Battlefields.

 

This time of year it's also commonly done for deer in the road.

[Laura Corin]

Do you slow down when someone does it for you?

 

I don't need to slow down because I don't break the speed limit. I find it strange that otherwise law-abiding people consider the speed limit not to be binding on them.

 

Laura

[pqr]

I don't need to slow down because I don't break the speed limit. I find it strange that otherwise law-abiding people consider the speed limit not to be binding on them.

 

Laura

 

You have a point there, almost everyone I know dismisses that particular act of breaking the law as inconsequential and having no bearing on a person's behavior as a citizen or moral individual. Interesting.

 

Whereas I am almost exclusively on the side of the police in this case I generally side with the miscreant. Real food for thought.

Edited September 18, 2010 by pqr

[edithcrawley]

 

I'm not sure what you consider a speeding trap. Are they ticketing drivers who are only going a few miles over the posted speed limit? Or is it a section where drivers regularly go waaay over the limit?

 

 

Speed traps here normally are somethng like this

 

Speed limit changes very quickly with no warning signs, in an area that makes it hard to notice the signs (lots of trees or curves so you can't see the sign until you are right up next to it, practically past it). Cop hides nearby (either behind a huge road sign, in a private drive, etc) and gets people.

 

 

Around here, if you see someone coming the other way driving pretty slowly through a certain part of town (or if you notice the traffic is getting backed up), its because there is a cop nearby. On the interstate, if the truckers start to slow down, it means that it was announced on their radios that a cop was nearby, so slow down. I think it is common courtesy to help other people out, sometimes the speed limits in certain areas are ridiculously slow, but they won't change them for whatever reason.

[Belacqua]

 

This time of year it's also commonly done for deer in the road.

 

Same here. Flashing lights occasionally mean there's a speed trap, but they're more likely to let drivers know that the herd of elk is crossing the road again.

[AndyJoy]

Really? That isn't universal in the U.S.? It was a common thing to do when I lived in NY, and it's common (not as common as NY but still common) here in PA, too.

 

You can't necessarily tell if people are speeding, but if there's a group of cars coming up or that appear to be moving quick you just flash your lights a few times to warn them to slow down, there's a cop parked somewhere ahead.

 

Weird. I only know about flashing people who forget to turn down their high beams or forget to turn on their lights at all.

 

Then again, I've never intentionally sped in my life and it wouldn't occur to me to prevent speeders from suffering this natural consequence.:tongue_smilie: I'd much rather they *hopefully* learn a lesson from the monetary hit and slow down permanently.

[AndyJoy]

It's not that you know whether they are speeding - it's just a common signal that there is a speed trap ahead, and as a pp said, it's common courtesy to let other drivers know.

 

I consider it perfectly ethical, as you are basically telling people to obey the speed limit, which is the ostensible goal of the speed trap anyway.

 

I see it more like "Obey briefly just so you won't get caught this time." which is not a message I feel comfortable sending. The frequent reflective speed limit signs should be reminder enough in my opinion. Then again, I was never the type to warn, "Shhhh--the teacher's coming!" either.

[AndyJoy]

I don't need to slow down because I don't break the speed limit. I find it strange that otherwise law-abiding people consider the speed limit not to be binding on them.

 

Laura

 

:iagree:This is a puzzle to my dh and me as well.

[Laura Corin]

If it's encouraging another driver to slow down that I do not see how it could be unethical.

 

- They slow drivers down who witness someone else being stopped.

- They may make money for the locality.

- They catch and punish people who speed. This may be a wake-up call, leading to a change in driving behaviour.

- In the UK, being caught speeding leads to points being added to your licence. Too many points mean that you lose your licence. By flashing, one is keeping on the road dangerous serial speeders.

 

Laura

Edited September 18, 2010 by Laura Corin

[stripe]

If people slow down, that's a good thing!

 

Just like police departments that put mannequins in cars, or cardboard motorcyle "cops" in the road, or empty police cards in places. Or the Vancouver school zone that put an optical illusion in the road to remind people that kids play in the street. It gets the job done.

 

And don't most people slow down when they see another person being stopped? Yet police officers don't take people to a secluded location to issue a ticket.

 

Slow down, people. Life isn't moving that fast. Stay alive.

[peachskittles]

Considering the ONE time I got a speeding ticket, I was going like 2miles over the speed limit (no cruise control), I appreciate the warning. Now that I have cruise control, I set it exactly at the speed limit. I might use more gas using cruise control, but that one ticket made me so super cautious it's insane. If my car without cruise control was working, I drive roughly 1-5 miles below the speed limit in that car. It annoys drivers but I'm not going to get a ticket for misjudging my speed (in case my car is off on it's speedometer and I don't have the GPS to tell me how fast I am going). One county here kept pulling my SO over for going just a few miles over in our car, so he totally loves our van now. Cruise control is a beautiful thing.

 

Oh and speed zones (traps) are actually advertised in some places. You're going 55 down the road and sign appears saying "Speed Zone Ahead" and then out of no where you get 3 back to back signs going 45, 35, 25. I normally apply the brakes way before I even get to the 25 because I anticipate it. Obviously, people do not like driving behind me.

[ladydusk]

Not unethical, but perhaps illegal depending upon where you live.

[Teachin'Mine]

The whole reason the police are there is to get people to slow down. It's just making their job easier. It is definitely considered common courtesy in NY! I flash if there's an animal near the roadside, if there's construction work ahead, etc. - for any reason the drivers should slow down and be alert. :)

[Miss Peregrine]

If it's encouraging another driver to slow down that I do not see how it could be unethical. I'm also married to a CHP officer.

:iagree:

 

Our highway is a dangerous one and getting people to slow down is a good idea.

[Laura Corin]

You have a point there, almost everyone I know dismisses that particular act of breaking the law as inconsequential and having no bearing on a person's behavior as a citizen or moral individual. Interesting.

 

Whereas I am almost exclusively on the side of the police in this case I generally side with the miscreant. Real food for thought.

 

Have fun with it.

 

Laura

[melissel]

I'm so surprised that this many people think it's ethical to flash. I agree with the few people who said that the speeding ticket and points on a license do far more for curbing speeding than the brief slowdown caused by the speed trap warning. IMO, if you speed (and for full disclosure, I do as well), you take your chances on getting caught and you pay the penalty. There's only one road that I can think of where I'm completely convinced that the speed limit is artificially set so that it's a moneymaker for the township. DH got a ticket there last year and hasn't gone more than the limit on that road since.

[AndyJoy]

Won't people slow down when they see the police car or someone stopped by the officer? Is your warning 10 seconds earlier really making the road safer or just preventing people from paying a fine for knowingly breaking the law?

[Daisy]

I don't speed and I laugh with glee when speeders get caught. :D

[AndyJoy]

I don't speed and I laugh with glee when speeders get caught. :D

 

Been there. Except when I was a teen and it was my dad and he was cranky for the rest of the day.:D

[Laura Corin]

Won't people slow down when they see the police car or someone stopped by the officer? Is your warning 10 seconds earlier really making the road safer or just preventing people from paying a fine for knowingly breaking the law?

 

Laura

[Laurie4b]

Not unethical, but perhaps illegal depending upon where you live.

 

Interesting link. Actually, reading through it, it sounds like in most (every?) state where this has been tested, that flashing (the verb) one's lights to warn of a speed trap is legal. (I noticed that there was an issue in a few cases where flashing (adjective) lights are prohibited whereas flashing (verb) lights manually is fine.

[NanceXToo]

I want to clarify something.

 

If I saw someone FLYING by at RIDICULOUS speeds that made me think "Wow, that guy's an idiot, I hope he gets pulled over and gets a ticket!"... I wouldn't flash THAT guy. The one I consider making the roads unsafe.

 

But the typical travelers are those who routinely drive, what, 10 miles or so over the speed limit? Nearly everybody does it. I do it. And usually even if a cop does drive up on you, he won't pull you over for it.

 

Yet, if you see him "hiding" at the side of the road, you know he's specifically looking to "catch" speeders, and then I think a friendly warning: "Hey, you might want to slow down just in case" is just, well, the friendly thing to do.

[dirty ethel rackham]

What's the purpose of a speed trap? Is it to make drivers slow down or is it a profit center? I have a much bigger problem with the profit motive, so anything that gets drivers to be more careful is a plus in my book.

[ColoradoMom]

How do other drivers know why you are flashing them? How can you tell that they are speeding?

 

Where I live there are only 2 reasons to flash someone - there are deer up ahead or there is a cop. Both require you to slow down. :001_smile:

[Laura Corin]

 

But the typical travelers are those who routinely drive, what, 10 miles or so over the speed limit? Nearly everybody does it. I do it.

 

What makes this law different from others? Especially when higher speeds lead to more serious accidents. In what way is speeding different from driving whilst drunk (illegal, causes death) or having bald tyres (illegal, causes death)? I wouldn't protect someone from prosecution in those cases; why should I for speeding?

 

Laura

Edited September 18, 2010 by Laura Corin

[Daisy]

 

Yet, if you see him "hiding" at the side of the road, you know he's specifically looking to "catch" speeders, and then I think a friendly warning: "Hey, you might want to slow down just in case" is just, well, the friendly thing to do.

 

Guess I'm unfriendly then.

 

What's the purpose of a speed trap? Is it to make drivers slow down or is it a profit center? I have a much bigger problem with the profit motive, so anything that gets drivers to be more careful is a plus in my book.

 

I have no problem with the police department profiting from those who break the law.

 

I wouldn't flash a driver who was illegally using their cellphone while driving either.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Daisy

[Miss Peregrine]

So, the law isn't a law? Or are there other laws you disobey?

 

Well, yes.

 

I also drive over the speed limit, sometimes.

[Blueridge]

I know the stretch of highway of which you speak...maddening! Even the most cautious of drivers can be caught off-guard from time to time. I think flashing lights is the kind, considerate thing to do. :)

[Laura Corin]

Well, yes.

 

I also drive over the speed limit, sometimes.

 

I'm just trying to work out why people feel differently about speeding than about other illegal and potentially dangerous acts.

 

Laura

[BarbecueMom]

I flash my lights at oncoming drivers, not as a courtesy to the speeders, but for the safety of the officer up ahead. I used to dispatch, and one of our patrol cars was hit by a vehicle as the officer was pulling off the shoulder to catch a speeder. Also, depending how far down the road you're flashing your lights, the officer may have already pulled someone over and is trying to get out of their vehicle to approach the speeder.

 

Flashing your lights at oncoming traffic, for a speed trap or accident or construction, warns the other drivers to pay special attention, especially on roads where visibility is limited.

[Miss Peregrine]

Would you protect a drunk driver?

 

Absolutely not.

 

I'm just trying to work out why people feel differently about speeding than about other illegal and potentially dangerous acts.

 

Laura

 

I am not sure either.

[radiobrain]

There are some areas of the country where EVERYONE drives a certain amount over the speed limit and if you adhere to the posted speed limit YOU are the one who impede the flow of traffic or might cause an accident. People would probably flash their lights and certain fingers at you.

 

Usually a speed trap is that, a trap. I think people should have a warning about a trap. It is revenue enhancement for many communities. If it were really about safety, that might be a different story, but then they would have a legal obligation to modify the road, and put up different signage. A cop hiding under an overpass just past a hill where the highway only meets that city's jurisdiction for 500 feet, at the end of the month... or on holiday travel weekends...

 

I don't consider a trap to be ethical, therefore my ethics don't come too much into play. I don't speed on purpose, or chronically. I am not someone who would be considered a dangerous or impaired driver, I don't text or talk on the phone. However, I still might get popped and have to pay a ridiculous ticket if a small town lowers the speed limit 10 mph for 2 mile stretch specifically for revenue enhancement. That is not fair and I would appreciate a light flash, thank you.

[peachskittles]

There are some areas of the country where EVERYONE drives a certain amount over the speed limit and if you adhere to the posted speed limit YOU are the one who impede the flow of traffic or might cause an accident. People would probably flash their lights and certain fingers at you.

 

I was just thinking of this aspect. A few months ago, we drove through Chicago. We were the ones that were going to cause an accident by going the speed limit. Even the police officers were passing by us, giving us weird looks. All the speeders around us didn't even blink an eye at the police officers keeping up with them. I didn't see anyone get pulled over. For the most part, people were going 15-20 miles OVER the speed limit. It was absolutely insane. And to think I have to go back to Chicago again in a few months. It's kinda scary. Indianapolis has better drivers, lemme tell ya.

[oldskool]

I have thought about this recently. I used to do it but have stopped because we have had so many drunk driving deaths lately in our state. My thought process is what if I flashed my lights to warn a driver to slow down, but then also potentially could be stopping a driver who had been drinking from being pulled over. That is then not a courtesy to anybody.

 

Lesley

[Mrs Mungo]

I think many of the speed traps are set up in a way that is unethical. For example, there is a 5 mile stretch of road near my house where the speed changes 10 times. It is between 20 and 35 but constantly changing. There is *nothing* along this road. The *only* reason is as a profit center. So, I'm fine with light flashing. If people were flying down the road going 50 in a 30? That would be different.

 

Drunk drivers actually tend to drive too slow. That's one way they pick them out.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[radiobrain]

I'm just trying to work out why people feel differently about speeding than about other illegal and potentially dangerous acts.

 

Laura

 

 

I think that it is because there is not a standard speed limit. It is not the same as burglary or murder, or other illegal or potentially dangerous acts. Our state fluctuates from place to place. The state next door immediately goes to 70mph. In my state, going 70 would most likely get a hefty ticket... then go 10 feet, nothing.

 

Going any certain amount over (or under, don't forget that) the speed limit is what becomes dangerous, not the actual speed you are driving. Just going over the limit does not mean you are potentially dangerous.

 

I know that in other parts of the country they have no posted speed limit, as it is flat and barely anyone is driving. What about the Autobahn?

 

I understand what you are getting at, but some "crimes" are not as "criminal" in some people's minds as others. Also, I feel like speed traps are akin to police entrapment, not quite... but close.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I used to make a 3 hour trip every weekend. I stopped at a rest stop once and some semi truck drivers approached me and asked if I was the lady who sang down the freeway. I was guilty:D They told me that they would put the word out to flash their lights for me whenever their radar detectors would detect a speed trap. I felt that they were being very helpful. (Now you could debate the ethical ramifications of radar detectors themselves!)