I don't get it. I really don't get it.

[whitestavern]

So this unbelievably horrendous crime happened in CT a few year's ago, the gist of which is there was a home invasion where two men beat a father; tied him up in the basement; raped his two daughters (11 & 15 I believe) and their mom, then set fire to the house which killed all three of the females. The father barely got out. Incredibly heinous. So the trial started this week and the headline today is this:

 

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/new_haven_cty/mother-takes-home-schooled-kids-to-hayes-trial

 

I just don't get it. The jury has been warned about how graphic and horrible the details of this case are going to be and this woman is bringing her 6 & 7 year olds to watch? These are the type of people that give homeschooling a bad name. Sigh.

[i.love.lucy]

Seems like she's loading them up on nightmare fuel.

 

Wouldn't there be other cases she could have taken them to observe? Sounds to me like she has a fascination with this case and wanted to go, but can't leave the kids at home!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Are there no other public trials in Connecticut that she could take her kids to to learn about the process? I'd say this is incredibly bad judgment.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I agree that she used TERRIBLE HORRIBLE NO-GOOD VERY BAD JUDGMENT.

 

She did have an ineresting point here, though:

 

To those who say a murder trial is no place for children, there's this.

"Then where is the place? Is it in front of a videogame where you're slaughtering your opponents and no parents are around to monitor it?†Jennifer Ghoshray told News 8. “I mean, I'm here, I'm interactive, we took notes when my children had a couple of questions I discussed with them."

 

 

I do think, though, that playing a video game that many children would perceive is pretend and HEARING THE GORY DETAILS OF RAPE, TORTURE AND MURDER are not really analogous. :001_huh:

[Barb_]

I

 

I do think, though, that playing a video game that many children would perceive is pretend and HEARING THE GORY DETAILS OF RAPE, TORTURE AND MURDER are not really analogous. :001_huh:

 

No, it's really more applicable to public hangings and eviscerations.

[Whereneverever]

Wow, that's kind of astonishing.

[Gooblink]

Crazy. They don't need to be learning about this kind of stuff at their ages, IMO.

[Tree House Academy]

This would give ME nightmares...my kids would probably never recover. Geesh!

[OrganicAnn]

It is not an either/or question. You can say no to letting kids sit in on a graphic trial and also no to violent video games.

[dripdripsplat]

What this mom isn't realizing is that by the time her kids say it's too much, it's WAY too late. They have already taken in more images and information than their minds will know what to do with. No amount of looking down is going to change what has been put into them.

 

I understand teaching civis, but this is not the way to do it. God help her and the kids, because she has probably opened doors that her children will spend years (or possibly their entire lives) trying to shut. And I'm speaking from experience on this one.

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

What this mom isn't realizing is that by the time her kids say it's too much, it's WAY too late. They have already taken in more images and information than their minds will know what to do with. No amount of looking down is going to change what has been put into them.

 

:iagree:

 

As if to make it better, she says she's been talking with them about the case for 6-7 months. That does not make it better, lady! That actually makes it worse and, what? Morbidly fascinating to you? It is absolutely completely inappropriate. The video game argument doesn't work for me either because I ALSO don't believe 6 and 7 year olds have any business playing anything rated over E!

 

She didn't have to take her kids to see a murder trial to see the justice system at work. There are plenty of unpaid traffic tickets, you know!

[RoughCollie]

I think the mother is abusing her children by talking to them about this case and by taking them to the trial. IMO, she is either mentally ill, has low intelligence, or both.

[AuntieM]

Sigh... It's hs-ers like this that provide fuel for those who would disallow hs-ing....

[Joker]

I only read about this story once (when it happened) and it has disturbed me ever since. There is no way I would want my children to know and hear about what happened in that home. I hate, hate, hate that this is discussed as what a homeschool family does. I cringe every time these "type" of homeschool stories come out.

[Paintedlady]

Wouldn't there be other cases she could have taken them to observe? Sounds to me like she has a fascination with this case and wanted to go, but can't leave the kids at home!

 

:iagree: That's exactly what I was thinking. Sick!

 

Btw, my mom was the worst about doing stuff like this. Not that she ever took me to any murder trials or anything, but took my siblings & I (I'm the youngest) to horror movies like Amityville Horror, Jaws, The Exorcist, Halloween, etc...

 

It makes me mad now how she ruined my innocence and made my childhood one of fear. These kids are certainly going to be facing an even worse fear, b/c what they're hearing in that courtroom isn't made up in a movie, but a real situation that happened to real people. :sad:

[MariannNOVA]

I only read about this story once (when it happened) and it has disturbed me ever since. There is no way I would want my children to know and hear about what happened in that home. I hate, hate, hate that this is discussed as what a homeschool family does. I cringe every time these "type" of homeschool stories come out.

 

I agree -- I read about it when it happened - in fact, it was discussed on the old board when it happened. It's horrific -- that poor family, and I cringe as well when this type of story hits the news.

 

There wasn't a single word printed anywhere about the homeschoolers in Alexandria, Va who worked at a face-painting booth on Labor Day at a Church Festival that raised $70,000. for people in the community in need.......instead we hear about some hideous decision made by some other homeschooling mom.:glare:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Sigh... It's hs-ers like this that provide fuel for those who would disallow hs-ing....

 

I agree, but would also say that her bad judgment is on a par with those ps teachers who have their students write suicide notes http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163739&highlight=suicide

 

Just like we reacted with outrage to teachers who expose kids to emotionally or developmentally inappropriate material, we should react with outrage to homeschoolers or babysitters or grandparents. . . who do the same.

[Hockey Mom]

I agree, but would also say that her bad judgment is on a par with those ps teachers who have their students write suicide notes http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163739&highlight=suicide

 

Just like we reacted with outrage to teachers who expose kids to emotionally or developmentally inappropriate material, we should react with outrage to homeschoolers or babysitters or grandparents. . . who do the same.

:iagree:

 

Perhaps the judge in the case can bar minors from the courtroom?

 

I can't imagine taking my 6 & 7 year olds to a courtroom to witness that. In our county, they have mock trials that are geared specifically toward children who want to learn the legal system. Does this woman's county not have the same thing?

[Parrothead]

I'm not sure why this is news. I'm also not sure that it is something we should condemn this mother for. It may not be what you or I would take our children to. It may not be what you or I talk about with our children. But to say the woman is mentally ill or abusing her children is a bit harsh.

 

How would those of you that are Christians feel if someone said any mom who teaches Bible to her children is mentally ill or that it is abusive. The Bible may not be as graphic as what will probably come out at this trial, but let's face it, there is stoning, lust, incest and adultery in the Bible.

 

I don't agree with exposing small children to the more horrendous side of life, but I'll defend this woman's right to homeschool as she sees fit.

[RoughCollie]

I don't agree with exposing small children to the more horrendous side of life, but I'll defend this woman's right to homeschool as she sees fit.

 

I think the mother's rights end where the children's rights begin. Every child, IMO, has a right not to be exposed to things like this. It is akin to porn. The defendant is a violent s*xual predator and murderer. Somehow, I doubt God is in favor of little children being taken to this trial, including them having been educated about it in advance.

 

I hope someone IRL is condemning the mother for this. We should not stand by and watch evil, because that is what this is, IMO, being perpetrated upon the innocent. I don't think this has anything to do with homeschooling -- the actions of that mother are the product of a twisted mind. She is using homeschooling, and her status as a homeschooler, as an excuse.

 

By bringing the Bible into the discussion, I think you are expanding the issue beyond its scope. IMO, it is not a useful analogy.

Edited September 16, 2010 by RoughCollie

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm not sure why this is news. I'm also not sure that it is something we should condemn this mother for. It may not be what you or I would take our children to. It may not be what you or I talk about with our children. But to say the woman is mentally ill or abusing her children is a bit harsh.

 

How would those of you that are Christians feel if someone said any mom who teaches Bible to her children is mentally ill or that it is abusive. The Bible may not be as graphic as what will probably come out at this trial, but let's face it, there is stoning, lust, incest and adultery in the Bible.

 

I don't agree with exposing small children to the more horrendous side of life, but I'll defend this woman's right to homeschool as she sees fit.

 

For starters, most families pick and choose which Bible stories to read to their young children. But even if they don't, the Biblical narrative is not sensational, it doesn't make you relive the events like a novel does, and doesn't have graphic pictures and videos like a murder trial will have.

[kalanamak]

I'm not sure why this is news. I'm also not sure that it is something we should condemn this mother for. It may not be what you or I would take our children to. It may not be what you or I talk about with our children. But to say the woman is mentally ill or abusing her children is a bit harsh.

 

 

:iagree: What happened to the "you know your child best" philosophy often put forth here? They seemed rather normal....

[Parrothead]

For starters, most families pick and choose which Bible stories to read to their young children. But even if they don't, the Biblical narrative is not sensational, it doesn't make you relive the events like a novel does, and doesn't have graphic pictures and videos like a murder trial will have.

You said it right there. "Most families." Most families pick Bible stories. Most families don't go to murder trials.

 

Some families do read those more graphic "inappropriate" Bible stories. Some parents really screw up their kids with the Bible.

 

Once we start down the road of condemning this mom for her curriculum/teaching choices, we can all be condemned for ours choices. There are things I read here every day which I scratch my head and wonder why a mom would do 'that" to her kid. There are curriculum that will not come into my house because I feel it is inappropriate for anyone to use, but many families use it daily. I'll defend another family's choice to use that curriculum. This is the same, but different.

 

We have to stand together or stand alone.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Parrothead

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

We have to stand together or stand alone.

 

Well, ultimately, I'd say we all stand alone in being responsible for the choices we make for ourselves and also for our minor children.

[Parrothead]

Well, ultimately, I'd say we all stand alone in being responsible for the choices we make for ourselves and also for our minor children.

If that is the case then this story shouldn't be news and this thread should not be here. It is her choice. It is none of our business.

[shannatheshedevil]

I don't agree with exposing small children to the more horrendous side of life, but I'll defend this woman's right to homeschool as she sees fit.

 

I'll stand with you. :iagree:

[RoughCollie]

If that is the case then this story shouldn't be news and this thread should not be here. It is her choice. It is none of our business.

 

Evil flourishes in the field of "none of our business". Of course it is our business! It is a national news story. It is standing on two legs. The stoutest leg is that a mother took her little children to the trial of a violent, sadistic, sexual predator and killer. The other leg is that she is a homeschooler.

 

We are homeschoolers. Ergo, some of us are interested in this article. I am angry that homeschooling is getting bad press because of this woman's actions. I am angry on the children's behalf, that she took them to that trial. Fortunately for the children, the judge decided to put the horrendous, graphic, photographs of the victims' bodies in a folder so the jurors could look at them, instead of showing them to everyone in the courtroom on a large screen.

 

I stand with those who condemn those actions, and for those who homeschool their children in a way that is not abusive. I also think children have rights and that even though parents have the power to do so, they have a responsibility to do their best not to trample upon those rights.

Edited September 16, 2010 by RoughCollie

[Parrothead]

Evil flourishes in the field of "none of our business". Of course it is our business! It is a national news story. It is standing on two legs. The stoutest leg is that a mother took her little children to the trial of a violent, sadistic, sexual predator and killer. The other leg is that she is a homeschooler.

 

We are homeschoolers. Ergo, some of us are interested in this article. I am angry that homeschooling is getting bad press because of this woman's actions. I am angry on the children's behalf, that she took them to that trial. Fortunately for the children, the judge decided to put the horrendous, graphic, photographs of the victims' bodies in a folder so the jurors could look at them, instead of showing them to everyone in the courtroom on a large screen.

 

I stand with those who condemn those actions, and for those who homeschool their children in a way that is not abusive.

Why is it getting national press? Some reporter saw this lady and her kids in the court room, asked her a question or two about the kids not being in school, and ran with it. It isn't news. It is more give the homeschoolers a bad name. It is gossip. It is some hotshot trying to make a name for himself off the back of a homeschooler. In that I share your anger and your outrage.

 

This is not the first time or will it be the last that a parent has done what most other deem inappropriate. A PP mentioned the fact that her mother took her to horror films. Yes, that is messed up. Yes, I think what this CT homeschooler mother has done is messed up. I never said I agree with her.

 

But she has the right to teach civics how she wants to. It isn't ideal for your family or mine. But once we start saying a homeschooler can't use situation A, Curriculum B or Movie C for school, we might as well sign up for the standardized national curriculum.

 

ETA: To clarify the "none of our business." I say it isn't our business because it should have never made the news in the first place. It is just more feeding the machine. I feel we need to do what we can to keep homeschooling as a verb instead of an adjective.

Edited September 16, 2010 by Parrothead

[Jean in Newcastle]

Why is it getting national press? Some reporter saw this lady and her kids in the court room, asked her a question or two about the kids not being in school, and ran with it. It isn't news. It is more give the homeschoolers a bad name. It is gossip. It is some hotshot trying to make a name for himself off the back of a homeschooler. In that I share your anger and your outrage.

 

This is not the first time or will it be the last that a parent has done what most other deem inappropriate. A PP mentioned the fact that her mother took her to horror films. Yes, that is messed up. Yes, I think what this CT homeschooler mother has done is messed up. I never said I agree with her.

 

But she has the right to teach civics how she wants to. It isn't ideal for your family or mine. But once we start saying a homeschooler can't use situation A, Curriculum B or Movie C for school, we might as well sign up for the standardized national curriculum.

 

I don't know why it is getting national press. Probably for the same reason that the teacher who had the autistic boy voted out of her classroom got national press. People find it interesting but also disturbing.

 

I don't think that anyone is saying that she shouldn't have the right to teach civics how she wants to. They are saying though that they think she's using bad judgment and it will have a negative effect on her kids. And we're also saying that the negative press could be used by people who do want to tell us how to homeschool. So her negative press becomes our negative press.

[Parrothead]

I don't know why it is getting national press. Probably for the same reason that the teacher who had the autistic boy voted out of her classroom got national press. People find it interesting but also disturbing.

 

I don't think that anyone is saying that she shouldn't have the right to teach civics how she wants to. They are saying though that they think she's using bad judgment and it will have a negative effect on her kids. And we're also saying that the negative press could be used by people who do want to tell us how to homeschool. So her negative press becomes our negative press.

I"m just as outraged about the negative press as everyone else it. I'm outraged that it is even a story to begin with. Some hotshot realized that he couldn't get a scoop about the trial so he (or she, IDK) decided to mess with the homeschoolers to get a new angle. And it worked.

 

And I also agree with everyone that this mom probably did not make the best decision. It is not one I would have made. I can tell you that. But she has to be allowed to make that decision so that I can use movies from Netflix in my homeschool. Or so you can use what works best for your school. Or so SWB can use the classical approach for her kids.

 

ETA: I'm going to bed now. If you want to continue in the morning, I'll be back after copious amounts of caffeine. ;) Have a good night.

[dripdripsplat]

:iagree: That's exactly what I was thinking. Sick!

 

Btw, my mom was the worst about doing stuff like this. Not that she ever took me to any murder trials or anything, but took my siblings & I (I'm the youngest) to horror movies like Amityville Horror, Jaws, The Exorcist, Halloween, etc...

 

It makes me mad now how she ruined my innocence and made my childhood one of fear. These kids are certainly going to be facing an even worse fear, b/c what they're hearing in that courtroom isn't made up in a movie, but a real situation that happened to real people. :sad:

 

 

Wow! I thought I was the only one whose parents did that sort of thing. I remember being 5 years old, watching The Exorcist and Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds with my parents and uncle, in my uncle's parish. All I can say is, scarred for life.

 

Years later I witnessed a murder, and it didn't even phase me. I just carried on with my day. I really think having watched those movies (plus several others, by that point) prior to the murder had really made me emotionally (and probably psychologically) numb. And just think, the movies weren't even real!

:cursing:

[Home'scool]

It's in the news because sometimes the news is reported to inform us of facts we NEED to know, and sometimes the news is reported to start a dialogue around something that happened.

 

This is the latter.

 

My mother would have done this to my siblings and me when I was growing up. She would have said it was for all sorts of good, positive reasons when in reality she gets off on gruesome details and titillating facts. The more horrible the story, the more she will delight in telling people. And an adult would either stop her or be disgusted with her. A child can be manipulated AND she got the horrified reaction that she was looking for.

 

She tries to do this with my kids and I stop her in her tracks every time. But if I walk out of the room for even a second I swear she will find a way to bring up some horrible detail from the Holocaust, or some animal torture story, or something equally as gruesome. Needless to say my kids have little contact with her.

[whitestavern]

Just to set the record straight...it didn't make national news (that I know of). The news station that ran the story is in the same city as the trial. So it's just local news.

 

I don't think we should say that it's her "right" to do as she wishes with these kids all in the name of keeping homeschooling legal and unregulated. Whether this woman homeschools or not, this is not a right she should have or be exercising with these children. There are too many other resources available to her to teach them civics.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

What I don't understand is why the judge did not clear them from the courtroom. The judge could have easily said that the information presented in the case would not be appropriate for such young children.

[unsinkable]

What this mom isn't realizing is that by the time her kids say it's too much, it's WAY too late. They have already taken in more images and information than their minds will know what to do with. No amount of looking down is going to change what has been put into them.

I understand teaching civis, but this is not the way to do it. God help her and the kids, because she has probably opened doors that her children will spend years (or possibly their entire lives) trying to shut. And I'm speaking from experience on this one.

 

This. Exactly.

 

And I am sorry for your pain. :grouphug:

[Word Nerd]

I'll defend this woman's right to homeschool as she sees fit.

 

Who has suggested otherwise? You seem to be equating having the right to homeschool with having the right to share one's parenting methods with local media free from any public scrutiny or comment.

Edited September 16, 2010 by WordGirl

[unsinkable]

:iagree:

 

As if to make it better, she says she's been talking with them about the case for 6-7 months. That does not make it better, lady!

 

Yeah, something about this made my skin crawl. "Come on kids! It's time to talk about rape!

 

That actually makes it worse and, what? Morbidly fascinating to you? It is absolutely completely inappropriate. The video game argument doesn't work for me either because I ALSO don't believe 6 and 7 year olds have any business playing anything rated over E!

 

She didn't have to take her kids to see a murder trial to see the justice system at work. There are plenty of unpaid traffic tickets, you know!Goodness, YES!

 

I responded in the text

[dripdripsplat]

Years later I witnessed a murder, and it didn't even phase me. I just carried on with my day. I really think having watched those movies (plus several others, by that point) prior to the murder had really made me emotionally (and probably psychologically) numb. And just think, the movies weren't even real!

 

Thought about it after I posted it, and I just wanted to let you all know that I'm perfectly sane now, thank God. But if it weren't for the blood of Jesus, woowee would I have been a wreck!

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Are there no other public trials in Connecticut that she could take her kids to to learn about the process? I'd say this is incredibly bad judgment.

 

:iagree:

[mcconnellboys]

I think they are way, way too young to be taken to such a trial....

[TKDmom]

So this unbelievably horrendous crime happened in CT a few year's ago, the gist of which is there was a home invasion where two men beat a father; tied him up in the basement; raped his two daughters (11 & 15 I believe) and their mom, then set fire to the house which killed all three of the females. The father barely got out. Incredibly heinous. So the trial started this week and the headline today is this:

 

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/new_haven_cty/mother-takes-home-schooled-kids-to-hayes-trial

 

I just don't get it. The jury has been warned about how graphic and horrible the details of this case are going to be and this woman is bringing her 6 & 7 year olds to watch? These are the type of people that give homeschooling a bad name. Sigh.

 

This makes me feel sick... I think the damage is already done. I wouldn't even be discussing this type of case with my dc, let alone bringing them into the courtroom.