How would you implement the Swann plan while doing WTM?

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I read the Swann's articles last year and found even the very THOUGHT of it overwhelming. Now that my little kids are older and reading and doing more schoolwork I am thinking that it may work for us.

 

The Swann family used Calvert until high school and schooled year round. When a kid was done with a particular year they moved right into the next one, which is why they graduated from high school at age 11 and all had bachelor's degrees by 13 or 14, right? Many of them had Master's degrees by age 16 or 17.

 

Now, I still stand by my earlier statement in the other Swann thread that "I wonder how much clout a 17 year old kid with a Master's degree can have" and someone rightly pointed out that they did get jobs. This is true. I still wonder if they had the emotional and intellectual maturity needed for some jobs, certainly for many jobs I would think about for Master's level employment. (To be fair, though, I am applying to a Master's in Social Work program, so, no, that is NOT something I would expect that a 17 year old could be effective at.)

 

So, anyway, on to my question: I looked at Calvert and I just think that it is too pricey for us.

 

I am flipping through my copy of the WTM and wondering how one could replicate the same thing with WTM?

 

Any ideas?

 

We use Math U See then Life of Fred for math and History Odyssey for History, but I am open to other programs!

 

I am specifically looking for a phonics program and spelling for after that.

[cdrumm4448]

I was just thinking about this myself. :lurk5:

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I was just thinking about this myself. :lurk5:

 

 

Don't you just love these boards?! I can't tell you how many times I was thinking of starting a thread only to find out, "Hey! Somebody just posted it!"

 

So far I have come up with this:

 

For math, stick to Math U See and Life of Fred (although SWB recommends Saxon as well, if that works for you.)

 

For handwriitng, Handwriting Without Tears

 

Phonics: Explode the Code and use these books to supplement:

 

Modern Curriculum Press Phonics Practice Readers

Series A $26.50

Series B $26.50

Series C $26.50

(I'm writing down prices for everything as well. It's not even coming CLOSE to Calvert!)

 

That's all I have so far, but I'm still reading.

 

To me, the advantage of Calvert is you just place the order and they send you a box of schoolwork. With WTM you have to go buy from various sources, but.....in the end probably better for us/learning styles.

[Rosie_0801]

It seemed to me the gist of it was schooling most days of the year. You can do that regardless of the company you buy curriculum from.

 

Rosie

[cdrumm4448]

It seemed to me the gist of it was schooling most days of the year. You can do that regardless of the company you buy curriculum from.

 

Rosie

 

This is my problem. I love, love, love the idea of schooling that much. In theory. In actual life, I am somewhat distracted and spontaneous.

 

I just told my ds this morning that I will make him do fewer worksheets if he reads as much as possible. His response? "Sweet!"

[melissel]

It seemed to me the gist of it was schooling most days of the year. You can do that regardless of the company you buy curriculum from.

 

Rosie

 

Without having read the original articles (if you have links, I'd love to see them!), it sounds to me like Rosie's on the right track. Frankly, I think the WTM method is the most rigorous that I know of. I can't think that Calvert would have anything on the WTM progression if you followed it relatively carefully. And schooling year-round has the benefit of teaching your kids that education and learning are not something you do during certain parts of your life--they ARE your life; learning and increasing your knowledge are enjoyable pursuits, and they are the end, not the means to an end, etc.

 

Then again, I could be way off base, so feel free to ignore me until I've read the original resources! :D

[ThatCyndiGirl]

It seemed to me the gist of it was schooling most days of the year. You can do that regardless of the company you buy curriculum from.

 

Rosie

 

You are right. I am just trying to figure out how to plan it all out. I am very much an "all or nothing" kinda' girl and the thought of being mostly through one Grade 2 book, but finished in another Grade 2 book just sets my teeth on edge.

 

It's something I need to let go of, yes. :tongue_smilie:

[melissel]

You are right. I am just trying to figure out how to plan it all out. I am very much an "all or nothing" kinda' girl and the thought of being mostly through one Grade 2 book, but finished in another Grade 2 book just sets my teeth on edge.

 

It's something I need to let go of, yes. :tongue_smilie:

 

You sound so much like me :lol: I've managed to get past that enough to settle on year-round schooling myself, but I won't say it doesn't grind my gears every time I think about starting our new math level in July but not being done with history until sometime in late fall :banghead:

[Rosie_0801]

This is my problem. I love, love, love the idea of schooling that much. In theory. In actual life, I am somewhat distracted and spontaneous.

 

 

Is it a problem? You can love the idea of schooling that much, and actually school that much, without all the schooling being the proscribed, official book work. Do you really want your kid to be doing their undergrad degree at 12? If not, then you're not doing anything wrong. Why feel bad about not following a plan to achieve a goal you don't want to achieve?

 

 

You are right. I am just trying to figure out how to plan it all out. I am very much an "all or nothing" kinda' girl and the thought of being mostly through one Grade 2 book, but finished in another Grade 2 book just sets my teeth on edge.

 

It's something I need to let go of, yes. :tongue_smilie:

 

It sounds like you have what I call an "inner Virgo." :lol:

 

Rosie

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I found it! It's right on this site!

 

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/store/curriculum-guides/curriculum-for-year-1.html

 

 

Rosie, I think you are right!

[cdrumm4448]

Is it a problem? You can love the idea of schooling that much, and actually school that much, without all the schooling being the proscribed, official book work. Do you really want your kid to be doing their undergrad degree at 12? If not, then you're not doing anything wrong. Why feel bad about not following a plan to achieve a goal you don't want to achieve?

 

I agree. Actually, we just spent 30 minutes dissecting an earthworm and it was AWESOME. Smelled funky, but still awesome. I'm working up to the shark. I think I'm living vicariously though my child and the education he's getting.:lol:

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Yes, I am more calm and appear more laid-back in front of the kids.

 

Then, after they go to bed, I bite my fingernails, wail, gnash my teeth and rend my own garments worrying about the exact level of momentum needed to go from Letter of the Week to Advance Physics. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

Perhaps this should be covered in therapy?

[elegantlion]

Yes, I am more calm and appear more laid-back in front of the kids.

 

Then, after they go to bed, I bite my fingernails, wail, gnash my teeth and rend my own garments worrying about the exact level of momentum needed to go from Letter of the Week to Advance Physics. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

Perhaps this should be covered in therapy?

 

Let's pull up the couch. I love learning. I could homeschool everyday, all year. The reality is I would completely burn out my ds by doing that. He's maturing in a way that he requires breaks, down time, and real time off of school. Currently he is not a lover of academia. I feed my own obsession with self-education and allow my ds to mature at his own rate.

 

If we moved at the pace of graduation by pre-teen, masters by 18, I'd have mutiny on my hands. I think with the right child, in the right environment it could be done.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Let's pull up the couch. I love learning. I could homeschool everyday, all year. The reality is I would completely burn out my ds by doing that. He's maturing in a way that he requires breaks, down time, and real time off of school. Currently he is not a lover of academia. I feed my own obsession with self-education and allow my ds to mature at his own rate.

 

If we moved at the pace of graduation by pre-teen, masters by 18, I'd have mutiny on my hands. I think with the right child, in the right environment it could be done.

 

 

 

Ah, the ever elusive (in my OWN life, anyway!) Voice Of Reason!

[Night Elf]

I school year round, without significantly long breaks. We don't school 5 days per week though. However, in scheduled programs, I do move from one to the next, back to back. With Calvert School's textbooks, there is a finite amount of information in each book. You read, answer the questions, move to the next chapter, and finish the book. When you finish that textbook, you move to the next one.

 

With WTM, you are using living books and following rabbit trails if time permits. Given a huge list of books to go through, and having the chance to find even more, it seems like it would be hard to find a true cut-off point like the end of a textbook. I believe the WTMs suggestions aren't really grade level, they are ability level. My dd12 is not ready for the 7th grade writing suggestions. Maybe soon, but definitely not now. But if she were ready for that level of writing, or the next level, I don't see why I should hold her back from it.

 

However, my dd12 is moving into Algebra next week simply because she's worked through her math programs in order and that is what is next. I hope she's ready for it! If we had done grammar every day, she would surely be in the next grade level or even 2 grade levels ahead.

 

So, I guess it depends on what programs you are using, and how they are implemented.

[HRAAB]

Let's pull up the couch. I love learning. I could homeschool everyday, all year. The reality is I would completely burn out my ds by doing that. He's maturing in a way that he requires breaks, down time, and real time off of school. Currently he is not a lover of academia. I feed my own obsession with self-education and allow my ds to mature at his own rate.

 

If we moved at the pace of graduation by pre-teen, masters by 18, I'd have mutiny on my hands. I think with the right child, in the right environment it could be done.

 

This is what I wonder about. At first I was thinking if they only schooled until noon each day, then they would have all afternoon/evening to explore, unwind, discover. But, six days a week all year with only a couple weeks off. I just can't imagine that. I 'think' it would be total rebellion. Also, I do enjoy watching my girls running around, playing, daydreaming in the summer. I can't quantify what they learn on paper during those off months, but I'm sure it's important.

 

Other than that, I did start a sort of loop schooling this year, and we have accomplished much more especially in history and science. We will continue with that next school year.

[Twigs]

Here is 1 link for Joyce Swann

 

http://www.home-school.com/Articles/phs12-joyceswann.html

 

If you go over to the left-side column and scroll down, you will find more links to the Swanns.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I am vastly impressed with the Swann family, but I could not be more underwhelmed with Calvert.

 

I don't think the richness of a WTM education should be rushed. It is a twelve year banquet, so there should be many opportunities to push the chair away from the table for awhile.

[newlifemom]

I am vastly impressed with the Swann family, but I could not be more underwhelmed with Calvert.

 

I don't think the richness of a WTM education should be rushed. It is a twelve year banquet, so there should be many opportunities to push the chair away from the table for awhile.

 

I think I have to agree with this. I am pretty sure SWB does as well. There is something to be said for letting a meal digest properly. [just following your metaphorical lead :D]

[usetoschool]

This is my problem. I love, love, love the idea of schooling that much. In theory. In actual life, I am somewhat distracted and spontaneous.

 

I just told my ds this morning that I will make him do fewer worksheets if he reads as much as possible. His response? "Sweet!"

 

Which is why it works! We don't do school year around so we can have a masters by 17 but so that we can study more in depth and be spontaneous. We want to be ahead so we can take rabbit trails and still finish the full course on time.

 

I do agree with a pp that there are some things that a 17 year old just isn't ready for even if they have the book learning under their belt.

[DarlaS]

I am vastly impressed with the Swann family, but I could not be more underwhelmed with Calvert.

 

I don't think the richness of a WTM education should be rushed. It is a twelve year banquet, so there should be many opportunities to push the chair away from the table for awhile.

 

I read that book their daughter Alexandra wrote and was all impressed with it for a while myself. In many ways, I still think we can learn a lot from the Swanns about consistency and structure in our homes and homeschool. We also could use her inspiration on how important it is to stop second-guessing curricula etc and just keep moving forward--most of the time that's all we need to do.

 

However, a few things bothered me about that book, especially after letting it sink in for a while. I no longer own it, but I do recall two things in particular that jumped out at me. Throughout the book, the dd refers to her mom as "Mother" (very formal) and her father as "my dad". That really bothered me. I'd rather be spoken of in a possessive way by my kids. "My mom" sounds so much more affectionate than "Mother".

 

The other was an incident where her small son was deathly ill and in the hospital and they kept schooling. I can see needing a sense of normalcy in a long-term illness situation, but my recollection was of them not missing a day--like that level of commitment was to be seen as some kind of virtue.

[Colleen in NS]

I read all those Swann articles a few years ago, and was intrigued. Not about the early graduation and degrees and 5 or 6 days per week and all that, but the consistency year-round. I've often wondered how I could "WTM the Swann way" without going crazy.

 

I wouldn't want to speed through things like history, science, literature, art, or music appreciation. But I can see how shorter times spread out over more days in things like Latin, math, grammar, and logic (and eventually rhetoric) could be done this way. My R&S math alone has 170 lessons, which, if I did math 4x/week, would take almost 43 weeks anyway. And that's not counting in sickness, holidays, dr. appointments, unexpected visits from faraway relatives/friends. My oldest is also doing Henle Latin now - trying to complete it in three years, but boy, it's a lot of work and thinking, and that's with doing quite a chunk of the exercises orally. I should spread it out over more weeks in the year, so the daily isn't so grinding. Grammar - R&S 6 has 132 lessons plus tests (which I recently threw away!), which if I do it 3x/week to make room for a one day vocab study, would take 44 weeks. If I don't eliminate the writing lessons. Which I do like to go through, if only for interest's sake (I use SWB's writing plan, which is not limited to a certain number of lessons). Logic. Will be a new thing for me next year, so THAT is going to take time each day, too - so it makes sense to spread it out.

 

For next year, I'm thinking of not having big scheduled chunks of time "off" - except for a week or two for a family vacation, a week at Christmas, and week in June to file my reports/renew my registrations. And then just having a 4x/week routine for "schoolwork" with the 5th day for library/errands/field trips/catchup/projects/relaxing, and seeing how that goes for all of us. I don't want to burn us out, but I also don't want to burn us out by trying to cram everything into 36 weeks (where did 36 week school years come from anyway????????). I would maybe do skills work in the mornings, and then alternate 3 weeks of afternoon history/science with a week of afternoon art/music/lifeskills. Every afternoon, too, the kids have a two hour reading/play period. They also go outside to play while I cook supper. They do have lots of "down" time built into the week.

 

So, I wonder how other people would do this? I'm glad you asked the question - I've wondered a lot!

[Colleen in NS]

Which is why it works! We don't do school year around so we can have a masters by 17 but so that we can study more in depth and be spontaneous. We want to be ahead so we can take rabbit trails and still finish the full course on time.

 

OK, I wanna hear more about your homeschool/family routine!

 

The other was an incident where her small son was deathly ill and in the hospital and they kept schooling. I can see needing a sense of normalcy in a long-term illness situation, but my recollection was of them not missing a day--like that level of commitment was to be seen as some kind of virtue.

 

I wonder if it was because they had a large family and needed to keep the routine going, for sanity's sake during illness.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Thank you all for chiming in! In the time betwixt my last post and this one I was writing up the schedule for the co-op class I am teaching starting in August. (Cambridge Latin I)

 

I found myself thinking, "if we started NOW we would have more time to review before the National Latin Exam".

 

I really need people like you (whether cyber or IRL) who will tell me to :chillpill: and enjoy the process.

 

(Although, as a "Yay! The National Latin Exam is over!" celebration I am planning a toga party that may or may not involve a murder mystery......(It seems that something rather sinister may have happened on the way to the forum!) :001_huh:

[Halcyon]

We homeschool year round, and are really quite consistent with our schooling (we take August off except for reading and math, and a week at major holidays). Solely as result of our 'slow and steady' approach, my 7 yo is doing 4th grade reading, grammar and spelling, and will likely be finished with Singapore 3rd year by Christmas. I think anyone who schooled with us would probably be moving at the same pace, simply because that's how we do things.

 

We didn't plan this, and we certainly don't do this so he can get a Masters' by 15. (that's a little creepy to me, I don't know why). We do it so that when and if the time comes, we can take an extended break of a month or two without worrying...and what do you know! In September, we're going to Rome for 6 weeks as a family, and I don't have to worry a whit about falling behind!! (We'll probably vault ahead in the Roman history and culture department though!)

 

:D

 

ETA: My son also does much better with a regular routine with few breaks. Somehow, morning school grounds him. He likes routine ;)

Edited May 21, 2010 by Halcyon

[Rebecca VA]

I read the articles years ago when they appeared in Practical Homeschooling. The Swanns were homeschooling during the early days of the HS movement, when it was barely legal. They were very concerned with having an accredited curriculum and following it to the letter. They accelerated partly because they were fearful they could lose the privilege at any time.

 

The Swanns lived out in the country (New Mexico, I think) and did not have many socialization or enrichment opportunities. The children played with each other after the lessons were over. The mom seems to have been a Type A person who established a routine and stayed with it forever.

 

While the Swann children did very well in school and college, if you Google their names, you won't find many references to them in the adult world. They don't seem to have made a big impact on the world. Their claim to fame was simply that they were accelerated...and that is all.

[DarlaS]

I wonder if it was because they had a large family and needed to keep the routine going, for sanity's sake during illness.

 

Like I said, a sense of normalcy was likely the reason. Now I wish I still had the book. I do remember the boy was really very seriously (like he nearly died) ill. It is possible that it was the best thing to do, but it's also possible to take anything to a level of obsession.

 

I got much more of an impression of the latter--throughout the whole book. In her own words "I am a rigidly organized person who lives a highly structured life at every level."

 

How could acceleration not be the intent anyway? How do you graduate 10 kids by age 12/13 without that being on purpose? I'm not buying it.

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2010 by darlasowders

[elegantlion]

I don't think the richness of a WTM education should be rushed. It is a twelve year banquet, so there should be many opportunities to push the chair away from the table for awhile.

 

I love this!!

[KC in KS]

We homeschool year round, and are really quite consistent with our schooling (we take August off except for reading and math, and a week at major holidays). Solely as result of our 'slow and steady' approach, my 7 yo is doing 4th grade reading, grammar and spelling, and will likely be finished with Singapore 3rd year by Christmas. I think anyone who schooled with us would probably be moving at the same pace, simply because that's how we do things.

 

We didn't plan this, and we certainly don't do this so he can get a Masters' by 15. (that's a little creepy to me, I don't know why). We do it so that when and if the time comes, we can take an extended break of a month or two without worrying...and what do you know! In September, we're going to Rome for 6 weeks as a family, and I don't have to worry a whit about falling behind!! (We'll probably vault ahead in the Roman history and culture department though!)

 

 

This is why we chose to school year-round. We can take a break whenever we need to, rather than waiting until "vacation time".

 

I'm quite sure the Swann's results were a function of their curriculum choice. In the "skill" areas where we just finish one workbook and move on to the next, it's very easy to accelerate. In "explore the topic" areas like history or literature, it's very easy to slow down to the point you quit moving forward altogether!

[emubird]

At 11 or 12, my kids were probably "ready" for college, in that they could have managed just fine. They had the skills in math, reading, and writing that an "average" college student might have. If I'd really been into acceleration, we could have figured out some way to get them into college then and they'd have advanced degrees by now.

 

BUT -- I notice that on the Swann page that someone linked, none of their kids were in math/science fields. It's easy to accelerate in some areas, but the math just takes a lot longer.

 

And another BUT -- my kids are spending their high school years with music and theater and art and numerous foreign languages, as well as doing a lot of advanced math. I think they're much happier with that than with getting a master's degree at 16.

[LibraryLover]

While the Swann children did very well in school and college, if you Google their names, you won't find many references to them in the adult world. They don't seem to have made a big impact on the world. Their claim to fame was simply that they were accelerated...and that is all.

 

 

Meh. Most people don't have a 'big impact' on the world. To me that matters not. I think it's enough to have an impact on your little corner of the world and live and love with dignity.

 

I am interested in what the other kids are doing with these degrees. Only the oldest two; the high-acheiving first born, to which a lot of us can relate...and the oldest ds, who is a pastor... are ever mentioned anywhere. I admit I am interested in knowing what kind of work the other children do.

[laughing lioness]

I didn't have time to read the whole thread but my take is this: I wouldn't.

 

We school year-round, we are fairly academic. We have a clear goal and vision. It's not Joyce Swann's. It's ours. For our family.

[Murphy101]

Meh. Most people don't have a 'big impact' on the world. To me that matters not. I think it's enough to have an impact on your little corner of the world and live and love with dignity.

 

I am interested in what the other kids are doing with these degrees. Only the oldest two; the high-acheiving first born, to which a lot of us can relate...and the oldest ds, who is a pastor... are ever mentioned anywhere. I admit I am interested in knowing what kind of work the other children do.

 

I agree. Couldn't care less about how much news print they get or mine get. And I sure as heck doing think that defines how much they impact the world.

Success is not determined by publicity to me.

 

I would be interested in what the other kids did too. Mostly out of simple curiosity.

[Jeannie in NJ]

the free Practical Homeschooling issue that is being given away at conventions has an article on the Swans and what the dc are doing now. One boy is operations manager for a tv station in El Paso, another boy is an anchorman at another tv station in El Paso. Another one is a photographer for CNN, often is Anderson Cooper's photographer. Has been in Iraq 3 times and was in New Orleans filming during Katrina. Two or three of the girls are homeschooling their own children. Several of them are working for a mortage company that the oldest girl started. Another is back in school, studiying to be a veterinarian.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I agree that we should not judge a person's education by what "huge impact" they are making on the world. I have a Bachelor's degree from a very good university, but I'm making WAAAAAY less than most Bachelor's level people do.

 

But,.....I love what I do. I find my job challenging (at times) and incredibly fulfilling. I take hotline calls for sexual abuse, domestic violence and a safeline. I sometimes speak to suicidal people and sometimes to an abused wife while her husband is yelling at her in the background. I love the minute-by-minute challenge.

 

My dh, on the other hand, has the AF equivilant of an Associate's degree, but makes about 8 times what I do. He does NOT like his job. His is more impressive.

 

The main reason I started this thread was because the thought of accelerated education never occurred to me when we started out with my oldest. We didn't have another child until she was 8 years old. I feel like I missed out on some really good years where I could have better prepared her for higher level work.

 

Now, having said that, I do think that there are some areas in which a younger child (age 11, for instance) would be intellectually and emotionally incapable of higher level work. (writing, abstract ideas, etc.) Some can, some cannot. I would NOT want a kid to feel like "well, now you are BEHIND!" because they would NOT be!

 

If a kid graduated high school early and was able to fully explore an area of intense interest (go wide and deep, as they say) that is a VERY good thing!

[MomLovesClassics]

What about SAT scores? I did not see that mentioned in the article. Also, college was taken at home just like othe homeschool classes.

[Murphy101]

SAT is not everything. Many never need it. They use the ACT instead and or have enough credits via dual enrollent (there's many online courses one can dual enroll in) or CLEPs or portfolio evaluations.

 

There were many paths to a degree back then and there's many more now.

 

The biggest impediment to the swann method entirely the way she did is the cost. Full enrollment Twice a year (bc of the rate she went through levels) for EACH kid plus paying the entire cost of graduating a child with a bachelors every year or every other year for over a decade. I estimate they were dropping some serious cash on education every year. Like more than our entire annual income has ever been.

[MomLovesClassics]

Our local community college requires SAT scores to be higher for home schoolers than those of public high school students.

I do not think I could do such an unflexible year round plan. And when I had severe illness we had to take a break until I recovered. My husband was too busy making sure I was still alive, and would recover to worry about schooling. I could not have unrealistic expections of an ill child either. I want my childrens education to be driven by desire to learn, not fear or force. I am glad her family could afford all that curriculum. Or did she have each child reuse the same books? This plan is just not for me.

[katemary63]

I just don't understand the desire to accelerate kids other then maybe a year or two for an advanced, intelligent child. But graduating high school at age 11? Weird. This would only make sense for a true prodigy and of course, some are that, but the vast majority are certainly not. Why would the parent of an average or even an average above average (LOL) child desire such a thing? Why is that a better life?

 

We do school year round. But it's because half the time when the weather is great (fall and spring for us), we are outside horseback riding in the mountains or catching frogs in the creek out back. So we school during the summer when it is too hot to do much of anything fun! I start my school year Aug. 1 and am usually playing catch up with some subjects during June and July but that's just fine. We get enough done to equal 1 whole year. I'm very happy getting an average amount of one school year done each school year.

 

ps. My DD is ahead 1 year just because I started her in 1st grade curriculum at age 5. I did this for two reasons. 1. Because she was ready. 2. Just in case we ever have to stop for a while due to some kind of family crisis - she will still be on track. So far, so good.

[Murphy101]

*sigh*

 

where's evidence of force?

Where's evidence of no desire to learn?

Or acceration even?

 

All she did was dedicate 3 hours a day to academics 5 days a week year round except when her dh was off work. They did their assignments and then moved to the next assignment.

 

I haven't read anything that suggest her kids felt pushed or stressed.

 

It's not accelerated to complete assignments and move to the next.

 

I can understand that it isn't for everyone, but I have no idea why people react so strongly negatively to this really rather simple idea.

[keptwoman]

I just don't understand the desire to accelerate kids other then maybe a year or two for an advanced, intelligent child. But graduating high school at age 11? Weird. This would only make sense for a true prodigy and of course, some are that, but the vast majority are certainly not. Why would the parent of an average or even an average above average (LOL) child desire such a thing? Why is that a better life?

 

We do school year round. But it's because half the time when the weather is great (fall and spring for us), we are outside horseback riding in the mountains or catching frogs in the creek out back. So we school during the summer when it is too hot to do much of anything fun! I start my school year Aug. 1 and am usually playing catch up with some subjects during June and July but that's just fine. We get enough done to equal 1 whole year. I'm very happy getting an average amount of one school year done each school year.

This is how I feel too. But mostly, I'd get burnt out.

[Peela]

I am attracted to the idea not so much for the acceleration, but more because I like the idea of consistently doing 3? hours of school a day most days for year upon year, and having the rest of the day free. It reminds me of the Robinson curriculum as well- except they are 5 hours a day, 6 days a week.

 

There is however a big difference between ticking boxes, finishing the work, and the type of mentality that I think a classical education or even a living books one, or a rich one, encourages. But I am sure there is plenty of possible crossover.

 

Its an idea worth playing with if it attracts. If acceleration is your goal...there are plenty of ways to tweak TWTM . If having lots of free time to pursue passions is a goal, that's a different angle and it might involve different priorities. What aspect is it that particularly appeals? FOr me...the idea of apparently accomplishing so much in so little daily time is appealing..but I wouldnt be happy with Calvert. I want to design my own program. So..different priorities.

[Haiku]

I can understand that it isn't for everyone, but I have no idea why people react so strongly negatively to this really rather simple idea.

 

I'm not sure I feel "strongly negative" about it as much as I feel kinda squicked out by it. To me, in my reading about the Swanns, two things stand out:

 

1) It seems like the parents had the same goals for every single kid, even down to making sure they all studied at the same college/university (which I know they did at home). It feels to me like there was no room for individuality.

 

2) It seems to me that their education was very rote and dry. I love the richness of a classical education, and the Swann approach feels very stripped down.

 

Graduating at 11 does not interest or excite me at all.

 

Tara

[Carrie12345]

I'm not sure I feel "strongly negative" about it as much as I feel kinda squicked out by it. To me, in my reading about the Swanns, two things stand out:

 

1) It seems like the parents had the same goals for every single kid, even down to making sure they all studied at the same college/university (which I know they did at home). It feels to me like there was no room for individuality.

 

2) It seems to me that their education was very rote and dry. I love the richness of a classical education, and the Swann approach feels very stripped down.

 

Graduating at 11 does not interest or excite me at all.

 

Tara

:iagree:

 

I have an 11yo. A *smart* 11yo. I consider his schooling to be advanced/accelerated. I believe he'll start (and maybe finish) college early. But his is a CHILD. He's nowhere near ready to consider history, science or literature at the level of understanding I'm aiming for in our homeschool. Sure, he could regurgitate 12th grade facts if I handed him textbooks, but that's not my goal for him.

 

I'm absolutely not ready to consider 12th grade goals for my younger children. I have a rough outline of curricula for the next couple of years, but I'm waiting to learn more about their strengths, weaknesses and personalities before making any real plans.

[Murphy101]

There is however a big difference between ticking boxes, finishing the work, and the type of mentality that I think a classical education or even a living books one, or a rich one, encourages. But I am sure there is plenty of possible crossover.

 

I think all curriculums/methods boil down to ticking boxes. Whether it's ticking off a great book read, a workbook completed, or a project or whatever. Basicly, if you have any idea what you are doing and make the effort to write it out - you've got boxes to tick off.

 

So I agree there's lots of cross over. And I don't think being organized enough to have a list of what to cover makes the materials covered any less enjoyed or learned

 

Its an idea worth playing with if it attracts. If acceleration is your goal...there are plenty of ways to tweak TWTM .

 

Again, there' snothing accelerated about moving to the next level after you complete a level. The Swanns would say that you shouldn't tweak TWM, you should simple work thorugh it with a dedicated schedule.

 

If having lots of free time to pursue passions is a goal, that's a different angle and it might involve different priorities. What aspect is it that particularly appeals? FOr me...the idea of apparently accomplishing so much in so little daily time is appealing..but I wouldnt be happy with Calvert. I want to design my own program.

 

Me too! And that exactly what I'm doing.

 

1) It seems like the parents had the same goals for every single kid, even down to making sure they all studied at the same college/university (which I know they did at home). It feels to me like there was no room for individuality.

 

One could say the same for those using the TWM. All the kids following the same curriculum.

 

And lots of families have all there children attend the same university for various reasons. Like cost and or location.

 

I see plenty of individuality in her kids education. But I also an insistance on a core program of learning, a base to build on - which most would agree is what TWM is supposed to provide

 

2) It seems to me that their education was very rote and dry. I love the richness of a classical education, and the Swann approach feels very stripped down.

 

We could say that of any curriculum. What works for one family might seem that way to another. I've heard lots of parents say that same thing about plenty of methods/curriculums.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by stripped down. She didn't skip the lessons or even subjects, so what is it you think she stripped away?

 

I find this conversation interesting bc there are sooooo many threads about parents behind, parents who can't get a schedule in gear, parents you have no clue what they are doing next, and so much more and they are almost always given a pat of "there there" on the back and told it's alright.

 

But someone starts a thread on how one might be able to develop a method of staying the course and reaching their goals and providing a solid education to their kids with something as simple as a dedicated schedule and academic plan and everyone insinuates the the Swann lady is harsh, lacks an affectionate relationship with her kids, the learning was rote and note enjoyed and so forth and no they wouldn't ever want to do anything like that.

 

So yeah, this thread seemed really negative compared to the topic and how it's reverse is so often handled on homeschooling boards.:confused:

[Haiku]

But someone starts a thread on how one might be able to develop a method of staying the course and reaching their goals and providing a solid education to their kids with something as simple as a dedicated schedule and academic plan

 

I have a dedicated schedule and an academic plan. We follow the WTM and we school four weeks on, one week off, year-round.

 

But honestly, getting through twelve years of schooling in six years means a lot of things are going to be missed, glossed over, skipped, etc. You can't dig deep on that kind of a fast track.

 

ETA: It seems to me that an education completed soooo quickly would be necessity be basically a "Just the facts, Ma'am" type of education.

 

Tara

Edited May 23, 2010 by TaraTheLiberator

[katemary63]

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I find this conversation interesting bc there are sooooo many threads about parents behind, parents who can't get a schedule in gear, parents you have no clue what they are doing next, and so much more and they are almost always given a pat of "there there" on the back and told it's alright.

 

But someone starts a thread on how one might be able to develop a method of staying the course and reaching their goals and providing a solid education to their kids with something as simple as a dedicated schedule and academic plan and everyone insinuates the the Swann lady is harsh, lacks an affectionate relationship with her kids, the learning was rote and note enjoyed and so forth and no they wouldn't ever want to do anything like that.

 

So yeah, this thread seemed really negative compared to the topic and how it's reverse is so often handled on homeschooling boards.:confused:

 

No matter how you slice it, graduating high school at age 11 is extreme. You would HAVE to be harsh and overly regimented to get 10 kids to graduate at age 11! I don't think this is something anybody should strive for! (Caveat: true prodigies, as I said earlier.) Consistancy, scheduling and self discipline are all traits to be admired. But EVERY good quality can be demonstrated in excess. Extremes on either side are unhealthy. Now if we were talking about graduating at age 15 because of a healthy dose of self discipline and a consistant schedule, I think you'd see LOTS of people saying, "Way to go!"

[Murphy101]

I have a dedicated schedule and an academic plan. We follow the WTM and we school four weeks on, one week off, year-round.

 

Great! Me too! I school 3 - 4 hours every morning except Thursday (that's our "light day") all year except for some time off for christmas, easter, and 4th of July or to birth the next heir.:)

 

But honestly, getting through twelve years of schooling in six years means a lot of things are going to be missed, glossed over, skipped, etc. You can't dig deep on that kind of a fast track.

 

I don't know that I agree. Especially with Calvert and The american School, which is what she used. There's a LOT of over-lap at the beginning of each grade. And frankly, there's going to be stuff missed or glossed in ANY curriculum, even the WTM. Either because it isn't covered or bc it isn't of major interest to the student.

 

I know I demand a lot more of my kids than just the facts and they cover a lot more than many homeschoolers I know.

 

But if it doesn't interest them or it is something I know is going to be repeatedly gone over later, I'm okay with them working through it and moving on.

 

No matter how you slice it, graduating high school at age 11 is extreme.

 

I do think it's extreme. But I also know that kids used to graduate 8th grade knowing what we now expect of 10th or 11th graders. I also know that in many other countries, our 11 year olds are seriously lacking in a comparable education. Are modern american 11 year olds less capable than the ones in other countries or 3 generations ago? I don't think so. I think we generally just don't expect as much of them.

 

I'd bet the Swanns are rather "free range" too.

Instead of worrying about grade levels, she just sat them down and said they were going to work for a dedicated amount of time and saw where it took them.

 

You would HAVE to be harsh and overly regimented to get 10 kids to graduate at age 11!

 

That depends. Do you have 10 kids? I have 9. I'm not all that harsh or overly regimented to my kids or my dh, tho I suppose it could appear that way to outsiders. I have a couple boys with aspie tendencies who actually like and need that, but over all - I don't think so.

 

What looks harsh and regimented to you, might be fairly simple and basic to a family of 11 such as mine. For example, I am down for a solid 3 - 5 months loosing weight and puking sick at the start of each pregnancy. To me, it is not an option to stop schooling during that time. Sick or not, my kids still need and deserve an education. When I reach a point that I can't grade and teach from the bed or sofa, dh steps in. This also gives all the kids purpose instead of extended idle time, which also helps the house run smoothly. It also teaches them that life goes on. Life doesn't grind to a halt when people get sick or have other issues. No, they still go to work, take care of their families, share laughter and meals. I don't see how it would be more helpful or cheerful to have them stop their education every time I've gotten pregnant.

 

Consistancy, scheduling and self discipline are all traits to be admired. But EVERY good quality can be demonstrated in excess. Extremes on either side are unhealthy. Now if we were talking about graduating at age 15 because of a healthy dose of self discipline and a consistant schedule, I think you'd see LOTS of people saying, "Way to go!"

 

uh-huh. because learning and acheivement is only defined by the age or because we should only cheer for them if they do it after a certain age?:001_huh:

 

I think if a kid completes a program successfully, then that's awesome and worth a "Way to go!" Period.

 

I think making a kid work for 3 hours a day and having the other 21 hours to do whatever is pretty healthy. I just can't wrap my brain around the idea that what grade level they are doing during that 3 hours is the determining factor in whether it's unhealthy. To me, that's just not a logical conclusion.

 

And I'll add that none of my kids are amazingly ahead right now. But they are learning tons and making great progress. I guess their lack of further progress means I'm not too regimented and harsh?:confused:

 

I don't think everyone who follows the Swann method, or the Robinson method for that matter, is going to have a kid that graduates at 11 or even 15. But I do think that for some, especially large families and or families on a tight budget, it can make a very positive impact on their schooling.

 

I agree it's not for everyone. Nothing is.

 

I just strongly disagree with many of the negative presumptions about this. I've actually become a far less harsh and regimented mother/teacher since we started this and my kids are enjoying their education more. I wouldn't have thought that when I started, but it's true all the same.

 

To me, this attitude is no different than if someone posed a similiar question about how to use TWM in a more CM/unschooling style and people started insinuating or outright claiming the exampled mother who did it for her 10 kids is likely lazy and/or permissive and how they could never do that to their kids and just don't understand why any mother would do that.

[rafiki]

.

[Haiku]

And frankly, there's going to be stuff missed or glossed in ANY curriculum, even the WTM.

 

That is true. No curriculum teaches everything. But whichever curriculum you choose, if you cut the time of that curriculum in half, I just don't think it's possible to do the curriculum justice.

 

Edited to elaborate further: I guess what I am trying to say is that any curriculum that has 12th-grade work that can be accomplished by an 11 year old seems, to me, not to be a strong curriculum. I realize that there are some extremely bright kids who could do this, but the odds of having ten of those kids in one family are, as my dad would say, Slim to None, and Slim just left town. The other thing is that if a 12-year curriculum can be completed in six years, I don't think it's a strong curriculum. The amount of thinking, reading, discussing, and writing that I am planning for my kids in the logic and rhetoric stages is just not something that can be compressed into a short amount of time, imo.

 

Tara

Edited May 23, 2010 by TaraTheLiberator