Online P.S....anyone else see them as a HUGE threat to homeschooling?

[Rosy]

Wow a special snowflake hehehe.

 

People can not be public schoolers, through a public school program where the school receives funding for that student and a homeschooler at the same time.

 

They are just two different things. Like night and day.

 

Actually, just to complicate the issue at hand :) , we are 99% in the "alternative learning experience" and 1% "home-based instruction"; apparently this allows us to keep our status as homeschoolers. Tomato, tomahto.

[Rosie_0801]

So we need to make the distinction between homeschoolers, schoolathomers, homeschool/schoolathome hybrids, campus-freerers and part-on/part-off campusers? The language gets a bit cumbersome, I think. We might see more to the term than a lack of full time attendance on the campus of some public or private school, but that's all the term "homeschool" means to the rest of the population. I think the term "homeschooler" gets the gist across well enough, and if someone wants more details they can ask and discuss.

 

Rosie

[Guest ToGMom]

That's interesting about Alaska. I had heard that homeschoolers automatically get a certain amount of money, no strings attached. :P

 

A nasty rumor...:glare:

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

It becomes difficult for administrators to see the difference. If we're tracking X with *these* homeschoolers (even though they are actually public-school students), why can't we do it with those *other* homechoolers?

 

Yes, I think Mrs. Mungo has hit the nail on the head. Dept. of Education bureaucrats who are anti-homeschooling (I live in a state with a couple of these) may choose to use these schooling options against true blue homeschoolers -- especially in states with unclear definitions of what type of educational options are considered "public school" to satify complusory education.

 

Sorry if I sound paranoid, but we've had a very contentious year fighting the dept. of education in my state, who were trying to slip in changes to our homeschooling law via updating the rules and regulations of our law; many of these these changes had been voted down by our state legislature by a huge majority. This group of people were bypassing the legislature to get done what they wanted. Fortunately, it didn't work. yet.

[StartingOver]

A nasty rumor...:glare:

 

Alaskans do get a Permanent Fund Dividend check yearly, once you have been in the state a full year ( Jan 1 to Dec 31st ). But it has nothing to do with homeschooling. Every man, woman and child who qualifies gets one.

[Dmmetler]

Well, in my state, legally you're not a homeschooler if you register through a Church Related Umbrella school-even if that school has no brick and mortar existence and provides no curriculum materials whatsoever. Which means that most of the "homeschoolers" I know legally aren't, because it's the only way to avoid more state interference than we want.

[Guest ToGMom]

Alaskans do get a Permanent Fund Dividend check yearly, once you have been in the state a full year ( Jan 1 to Dec 31st ). But it has nothing to do with homeschooling. Every man, woman and child who qualifies gets one.

 

Yeah, I know that...I should have clarified before hitting the "reply" button. ;)

[StartingOver]

Yeah, I know that...I should have clarified before hitting the "reply" button. ;)

 

 

I was just trying to clarify, that's all. :001_smile:

[HRAAB]

They don't bother me at all. I support different options in education.

[Crissy]

Actually, just to complicate the issue at hand :) , we are 99% in the "alternative learning experience" and 1% "home-based instruction"; apparently this allows us to keep our status as homeschoolers. Tomato, tomahto.

 

We had a similar situation throughout my son's junior high school years. He took math and science at the public school and we covered everything else at home.

Because of the laws and the various educational options in the state of Washington, we never lost our legal status as homeschoolers.

[Dandelion]

Has anyone else noticed this trend, and if so, are you bothered by it?

 

I'm "middle of the road" on this trend...

 

- I'm not bothered by it.

- I think it can be a great option for families who want to school at home.

- I don't have a problem with families who use this option calling themselves "homeschoolers".

- I do however see the potential for more government "interference" in homeschooling down the road as "public school at home" becomes more prevalent.

 

So...I think it's great for now, and am adopting a "wait and see" approach as to what it might lead to (good or bad) down the road.

 

As a side note, I had this issue explode in my HS group a few months ago. As the organizer, I had to mediate between two member families who were seriously in each other's faces about this (one family has their kids in a "Virtual Academy" and the other family is in the camp of "that's not homeschooling"). It was not pretty. I think we should be supporting each other as a homeschooling community - regardless of how we choose to educate our kids.

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm "middle of the road" on this trend...

 

- I'm not bothered by it.

- I think it can be a great option for families who want to school at home.

- I don't have a problem with families who use this option calling themselves "homeschoolers".

- I do however see the potential for more government "interference" in homeschooling down the road as "public school at home" becomes more prevalent.

 

So...I think it's great for now, and am adopting a "wait and see" approach as to what it might lead to (good or bad) down the road.

 

As a side note, I had this issue explode in my HS group a few months ago. As the organizer, I had to mediate between two member families who were seriously in each other's faces about this (one family has their kids in a "Virtual Academy" and the other family is in the camp of "that's not homeschooling"). It was not pretty. I think we should be supporting each other as a homeschooling community - regardless of how we choose to educate our kids.

 

I agree *but* I understand how it is frustrating for *homeschoolers* when the state is not following the law, is asking for more information than they are legally allowed, are trying to force homeschoolers to be tested every year and so forth based on what the public-school-at-home crowd is doing.

[jewellsmommy]

I am all for options. I don't see it as a threat because there are enough control freaks like me out there to keep the movement going:D. That was a joke. I am totally not labeling anyone else a control freak, except me. Cause I am.

 

But I do see what the op and others are saying as well. I believe Rosie touched on what I was thinking while reading. What qualifies a child as homeschooled? Is it merely the location? Is it any child who learns at home? Or, is homeschool more tied to the act of parental and/or self education? Does it matter? Does there need to be clarification? Someone can put up a poll and see what the majority thinks. I think polls are fun.

[Crissy]

I agree *but* I understand how it is frustrating for *homeschoolers* when the state is not following the law, is asking for more information than they are legally allowed, are trying to force homeschoolers to be tested every year and so forth based on what the public-school-at-home crowd is doing.

 

But haven't they been doing that all along? What the PS-at-home crowd is doing is just one of any number of excuses to ask for such things.

[Ellie]

Does the state receive funding for your child being in this program ? Is he listed legally as in public school ?

 

I understand some states require an umbrella school.

The answer is yes; the state pays ADA (to whom, I don't know) for children enrolled in home-based charter schoools.

 

And there are restrictions, even though many charter school facilitators ignore them--more students enrolled, more ADA--regarding the use of religious materials. The California Constitution expressly forbids the use of religious instructional materials (regardless of who pays for them) as well as religious instruction at all in any public schools of the state, and charter schools are considered public schools of the state. Many charter schools have ignored this, but eventually they get caught and heads roll.

 

A state-funded charter school would not count as an umbrella school for hsers, as it is public school and legally *not* homeschooling.

[Sputterduck]

Does the state receive funding for your child being in this program ? Is he listed legally as in public school ?

 

I understand some states require an umbrella school.

 

The school received funding for the school based on enrollment. That's all I know about funding.

 

There was no difference in my day vs when we homeschool without the charter school (like now). There is no difference in his education. Both ways I am the teacher. But ways I say what and how he learns. Both ways I use whatever curriculum, or none, as I see fit. Both ways he learns at home, from mom, with mom's stuff.

[StartingOver]

The school received funding for the school based on enrollment. That's all I know about funding.

 

There was no difference in my day vs when we homeschool without the charter school (like now). There is no difference in his education. Both ways I am the teacher. But ways I say what and how he learns. Both ways I use whatever curriculum, or none, as I see fit. Both ways he learns at home, from mom, with mom's stuff.

 

 

IF the school receives funding, then you are legally a public schooler. I know for some it is a hard thing to accept. And there are some states that give you no choice. To that I say, you have some more fighting to do !

[Impish]

:iagree:

I have a serious issue with anyone who uses PUBLIC school funding, calling themselves homeschoolers.

 

I fought and was jailed for the right to homeschool my children. No one decides what, when or how to educate my children, except for my husband and I. It is what we all fought for, we didn't fight for public education at home .

 

I think those who use a "school at home" public school funded system of any kind, are laughing in the face of those who fought for our rights as homeschoolers.

 

My opinion, I am entitled to it !

I call myself a home schooler. And I receive funding.

 

The province I'm in allows for 3 different streams of homeschooling. Fully aligned receives the most funding, and you agree to meet all the ps outcomes for the year.

Traditional means fully parent led, not anything to do with school outcomes.

Blended means that some of it will meet the ps outcomes, but some of it is parent led.

 

What curric to use, how its taught, all up to the parent, even when the goal is to meet ps outcomes.

 

I'm GLAD for the funding. It absolutely makes life so much easier with money specifically allocated for the kids education! And, to top it off, my favourite hs store for curric can bill the school board directly! Wooo hooo!!

 

I'm doing the best I can for my kids, period. And if anyone thinks that I'm laughing in the face of someone else, I'd suggest that its their own personal issue, not anything to do with me.

 

We may well move to a province that doesn't have funding available...and if that's the case, we'll manage. But to turn down funding available? Sorry, we're not so affluent that we can do that out of a misguided sense of pride.

[tex-mex]

I agree with this. It becomes difficult for administrators to see the difference. If we're tracking X with *these* homeschoolers (even though they are actually public-school students), why can't we do it with those *other* homechoolers?

:iagree:Thus the sticky wicket begins with tracking -- that part troubles me. I have no issues with virtual charter ps online. But do not lump my hsing with them for tracking issues. Also the LEGAL freedoms to hs (HSLDA) are important to me -- there is a privacy (loss) cost to signing up with groups like K12. I do not want the govt. telling me how to educate my child.

 

And technically, it really is not homeschooling. It is more of a public school/homebound tutoring scenario paid with public funds.

[Sputterduck]

IF the school receives funding, then you are legally a public schooler. I know for some it is a hard thing to accept. And there are some states that give you no choice. To that I say, you have some more fighting to do !

 

 

So by your logic there are entire states with zero homeschoolers?

[Audrey]

I've just gotten my 3rd postcard advertising a different online public school...it's free!...it's a research-based curriculum!...it slices and dices!:glare:

I am sooo sick of all of these companies trying to entice me back into public school. I am also really alarmed, b/c I have had alot of people lately assume that we are doing public school online at home when I tell them we homeschool.

It appears that the term "homeschool" means online school to many people now, and I fear that soon there won't be enough homeschoolers who are educating without a governement program to defend the movement. I'm probably over-reacting, but people didn't used to say "Oh, you're having them do online school?" when I told them we homeschool.

Also, many homeschoolers in this area have been drawn away into these programs, and it's bothering me.

Has anyone else noticed this trend, and if so, are you bothered by it?

 

I don't know enough about it to know if it's a threat or not. On the one hand, spread of online public schools might give the NEA cause to say that online ps should be the only homeschool option. On the other hand, maybe it's just a cost saving measure.

 

I know that in our school division (tiny rural schools) they have just presented to the communities a new plan for high schools to be using more IITV courses, and more online courses so the students can take the classes they need in order to meet their credit requirement for graduation. As it is right now, they have to go through distance ed for about 1/4 to 1/3 of their credits because the tiny schools don't have enough teachers (that's a really short version of the story, btw).

 

We went to this presentation and dh and I had a hard time not scoffing aloud through the whole thing. They're trying to make it sound like they're really "advanced" and providing such fantastic technological resources to the kids, but they weren't fooling most people. The schools here are already a joke. The punchline just got a little better.

[tex-mex]

 

Part of the problem is that people don't understand that these are *public schools," not homeschooling. It's a legal issue, and it does make a difference.

 

HSLDA has several good articles on them.

:iagree:This is why I am a member of HSLDA.

[StartingOver]

So by your logic there are entire states with zero homeschoolers?

 

Exactly. The legal definition of a public schooler is a child who uses and educational choice that receives funding for that child from the government.

 

Public funding = public school = public schooler.

 

Mom and dad funding = mom and dad school = homeschooler.

 

I can't say I am a public schooler just because I live down the street from one. They can't say they are homeschoolers just because they don't attend the school down the street. The statistics the school keep include their children !

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I'm more alarmed by McDonalds than I am by virtual public schools.

 

:iagree:

 

Also, not all virtual public schools are lousy IMHO. My ds attends a K12 public school at home and the curriculum is outstanding and quite classical like IMHO. My son's ds school is mostly offline work as well since many hear cyber school and think it is all online and often that is not the case at all.

 

I believe in radical school choice including public cyber schools and homeschooling:001_smile:

 

It also saddens me that some homeschooling groups would want to exclude public cyber school students:( Fortunately, I belong to a homeschool co-op where homeschoolers and public cyber schoolers happily co-exist:)

 

Also as an aside, in our neck of the woods, the brick and mortar public schools hate public cyber schools because the money follows the student. IMHO I think they would rather we homeschool since the money would not follow the student. Of course, homeschoolers and cyber schoolers should be vigilant and express our opinions to our representatives.

 

For the record, I am also strongly in favor of homeschooling and would not want to see it over-regulated. I may end up doing homeschooling for my ds as well, but this year the public cyber option works for ds:)

Edited May 7, 2010 by priscilla
clarify

[Sputterduck]

Exactly. The legal definition of a public schooler is a child who uses and educational choice that receives funding for that child from the government.

 

Public funding = public school = public schooler.

 

Mom and dad funding = mom and dad school = homeschooler.

 

I can't say I am a public schooler just because I live down the street from one. They can't say they are homeschoolers just because they don't attend the school down the street. The statistics the school keep include their children !

 

The legal definition varies state by state. In founding papers for my son's old charter school it states that it is a school strictly for homeschoolers, and that is the understanding of the district and the state. They provide no instruction aside from enrichment classes.

 

Who keeps statistics on what doesn't really matter.

[Blessedfamily]

.....on the one hand, spread of online public schools might give the NEA cause to say that online ps should be the only homeschool option. ........

 

This is a real possibility. Other than that, I have no concerns.

[FloridaLisa]

I am concerned and am watching the developments. While you and I may see clear differences between publicly-funded school at home and parent-funded school at home, legislators and state regulators may not. I can foresee states beginning to require some of the same regulations they require of government virtual schools for all kids educated in the home. Lobbyists will certainly have their work to keep these camps very separate for all administrative and legislative decision makers.

 

Lisa

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

:iagree:Thus the sticky wicket begins with tracking

 

Interesting that you mentioned this, Tex-Mex. Our state legislator is set to vote on a bill that will require a unique identifier for all public school kids and (get this) preschooler who are attending a preK where state funds are being received and students at community colleges (the state university already does this -- not sure about if private universities in our state are mandated to have the identifiers). They want to "track their successes" through the system. It is all part of Follow the Child program (different states use different terms, but it is all the same thing) where they follow students from (eventually) birth on up.

 

Of course, as a homeschooler, my kid is not part of the system...yet. When/if he enrolls in comm. college classes, he'll get an identifier.

 

"They" say that there will be no way to know which number goes with which student (to protect privacy), that all the information will be confidential and that only one or two people at the Dept. of Ed. will be able to ever connect names to numbers.... yea. right.

[jazzyfizzle]

Throwing this out there since I have been curious-

 

if these measures would become required, this would have to include the amish and mennonites, correct? I cannot ever see them agreeing for their children to attend PS. All state residents would have to be treated in an equal manner, right?

 

(of course they use the roads without a vehicle licence, children do not have to be strapped in seatbelts or booster seats- can ride behind the buggy in a little red wagon next to speeding traffic, ect., so who knows?)

[StartingOver]

Interesting that you mentioned this, Tex-Mex. Our state legislator is set to vote on a bill that will require a unique identifier for all public school kids and (get this) preschooler who are attending a preK where state funds are being received and students at community colleges (the state university already does this -- not sure about if private universities in our state are mandated to have the identifiers). They want to "track their successes" through the system. It is all part of Follow the Child program (different states use different terms, but it is all the same thing) where they follow students from (eventually) birth on up.

 

Of course, as a homeschooler, my kid is not part of the system...yet. When/if he enrolls in comm. college classes, he'll get an identifier.

 

"They" say that there will be no way to know which number goes with which student (to protect privacy), that all the information will be confidential and that only one or two people at the Dept. of Ed. will be able to ever connect names to numbers.... yea. right.

 

 

Many homeschoolers in Texas see the new vaccination records being kept as just another way to track our children. The state calls if you miss a vaccination. They will surely know which children are in the public school system, as these records are shared with the public schools. Just another way to track the kids.

[Happy2BaMom]

IF the school receives funding, then you are legally a public schooler.

 

No, in my state, homeschoolers can remain legally a homeschooler but choose to participate part-time in public school-run programs, including weekly homeschool enrichment programs (usually 1 day a week). Most people who participate in our local program are legally homeschoolers and entirely select their own curriculum. The school district does receive funding for each enrolled homeschool student.

 

I currently participate in this program and am immensely grateful for the 1-1/2 days of support I have from them. If I didn't have it for this year, I would not have been able to homeschool. We will participate again next year; after that, I do not know.

 

The bottom line is that your (or mine, or anyone else's) opinion doesn't matter. If the demand is there, the programs will come, and more and more people are finding that the public schools don't work for them or their chidren. Not everyone is comfortable going 100% homeschool right off the bat. I think there is also an opportunity for legislators to see that non-traditional education works. Will they extend their control further? I suppose that's a risk, but the legislators in my state are so overwhelmed with enormous budget deficits for the forseeable future that the last thing they want to take on is finding the money to hire more regulators.

 

I'm not worried about the NEA. I don't think any of the NCLB initiatives are going to work, because I don't think teachers are the source of the problem (I won't continue, because that would turn into another thread); when it becomes obvious that schools are continuing to fail, my belief is that the NEA will continue to lose credibility.

 

I do understand the concern, but....I don't know how anyone is going to stop these programs. I mean, is standing on the top of a stump telling everyone in an alternative school that THEY are NOT homeschoolers going to change anything?

[Haiku]

I'm not bothered by it at all. I know that technically online p.s. families are not homeschoolers, but I welcome them into the homeschool community anyway because they have chosen to educate their children at home and have chosen the curriculum they feel comfortable with, just like all us other homeschoolers. I think the concerns that online p.s. will bring about the downfall of homeschooling are overblown, and some of the arguments I have seen have verged on hysterical.

 

Tara

[tex-mex]

Interesting that you mentioned this, Tex-Mex. Our state legislator is set to vote on a bill that will require a unique identifier for all public school kids and (get this) preschooler who are attending a preK where state funds are being received and students at community colleges (the state university already does this -- not sure about if private universities in our state are mandated to have the identifiers). They want to "track their successes" through the system. It is all part of Follow the Child program (different states use different terms, but it is all the same thing) where they follow students from (eventually) birth on up.

 

Of course, as a homeschooler, my kid is not part of the system...yet. When/if he enrolls in comm. college classes, he'll get an identifier.

 

"They" say that there will be no way to know which number goes with which student (to protect privacy), that all the information will be confidential and that only one or two people at the Dept. of Ed. will be able to ever connect names to numbers.... yea. right.

 

:iagree:Cyberschools lead to more govt. control and regulation.

 

None of this surprises me... as a former public schoolteacher, I think any statistical tracking occurs because state funding occurs. NCLB mandates the cyber school via standardized testing. And yes, even though you THINK you are the "teacher" -- you are still relying on govt funds for your child's education. The cyberschool controls your transcript. Controls your data. Tells you what classes have to be taught. You have to check in with a cyber teacher weekly or monthly. No difference from a public school's (brick & mortar) alternative ed or continuation program.

 

My beef is that I do not want the govt violating my freedom to homeschool by telling me HOW to educate my child... period. No tracking. No interference. (Another reason to love TX laws on hsing. ;)) The hs support group I belong to (300 families) feel the same way -- we do not allow membership for those who do cyber schooling. Just my 2 cents.

 

PA House Bill 446: Cyberschools

http://www.hslda.org/Legislation/State/pa/2007/PAHB446/default.asp

 

OH Cyberschools:

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/oh/200507290.asp

Edited May 7, 2010 by tex-mex

[Cammie]

Looks to me like we are getting bogged down in semantics. For the purpose of the state, a "homeschooler" is whatever your state statute says it is. If you don't know, you should look it up and see how it is defined for your state.

 

However, for the purpose of self-identification, joining social groups, visiting yahoo forums, etc., a "homeschooler" can mean whatever you want it to mean! Here is means full time traditional homeschooling, virtual homeschooling, afterschooling, and every other variation you can think of! The same way that "classical edcuation" seems to mean something different to each of us, I think "homeschooling" means something unique to each of us as well - and that is a good thing!

[tex-mex]

No, in my state, homeschoolers can remain legally a homeschooler but choose to participate part-time in public school-run programs, including weekly homeschool enrichment programs (usually 1 day a week). Most people who participate in our local program are legally homeschoolers and entirely select their own curriculum. The school district does receive funding for each enrolled homeschool student.

 

I currently participate in this program and am immensely grateful for the 1-1/2 days of support I have from them. If I didn't have it for this year, I would not have been able to homeschool. We will participate again next year; after that, I do not know.

 

Sorry to disagree... but legally (according to HSLDA) if you participate in any UIL program at a public school, you do run the chance of losing your legal status of being a homeschooler and be labeled under the public school. Confusing, I know. But legally, they could not represent you in court if this happened. Which is why HSLDA takes the stance of not participating in any UIL activities with public schools.

[Cammie]

Sorry to disagree... but legally (according to HSLDA) if you participate in any UIL program at a public school, you do run the chance of losing your legal status of being a homeschooler and be labeled under the public school. Confusing, I know. But legally, they could not represent you in court if this happened. Which is why HSLDA takes the stance of not participating in any UIL activities with public schools.

 

 

I would be a little carefully of making the leap from looking at what HSLDA would or would not choose to do (or who they would not choose to represent) and stating that has a particular legal implication. They are known to have a very strong bent in certain directions and that may color their interpretation of who they can "legally represent" or not.

[TeenagerMom]

We do ARVA through k12. I don't care what we are classified as. Public school/homeschool.....my kids are getting a darn good education regardless.

 

I don't the VA are a threat to homeschooling. I think the public school of the future will be primarily virtual due to the affordability of it.

 

I do find it sad however, that we are excluded from allowing our children to participate in activities with Homeschoolers. My DS loves to socialize and do activities with other children, just as much as homeschooling kids do, but alas, due to the homeschooling community's bias towards VA students, my son does not have those opportunities.

 

Currently we have only opportunities for socialization through community team sports, which is difficult since DS is physically disabled and church since we aren't accepted anywhere else:sad:

[StartingOver]

:iagree:Cyberschools lead to more govt. control and regulation.

 

None of this surprises me... as a former public schoolteacher, I think any statistical tracking occurs because state funding occurs. NCLB mandates the cyber school via standardized testing. And yes, even though you THINK you are the "teacher" -- you are still relying on govt funds for your child's education. The cyberschool controls your transcript. Controls your data. Tells you what classes have to be taught. You have to check in with a cyber teacher weekly or monthly. No difference from a public school's (brick & mortar) alternative ed or continuation program.

 

My beef is that I do not want the govt violating my freedom to homeschool by telling me HOW to educate my child... period. No tracking. No interference. (Another reason to love TX laws on hsing. ;)) The hs support group I belong to (300 families) feel the same way -- we do not allow membership for those who do cyber schooling. Just my 2 cents.

 

PA House Bill 446: Cyberschools

http://www.hslda.org/Legislation/State/pa/2007/PAHB446/default.asp

 

OH Cyberschools:

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/oh/200507290.asp

 

 

:cheers2:

[QueenCat]

I do find it sad however, that we are excluded from allowing our children to participate in activities with Homeschoolers. My DS loves to socialize and do activities with other children, just as much as homeschooling kids do, but alas, due to the homeschooling community's bias towards VA students, my son does not have those opportunities.

 

 

That is really sad. I hope these same groups aren't claiming Christ as the foundation of their faith and their group.... that would be so incredibly hypocritical as it isn't how Christ would treat your child!

[tex-mex]

I would be a little carefully of making the leap from looking at what HSLDA would or would not choose to do (or who they would not choose to represent) and stating that has a particular legal implication. They are known to have a very strong bent in certain directions and that may color their interpretation of who they can "legally represent" or not.

Having been a former public schoolteacher and seeing how my former school district harassed homeschooling families... I can say that having representation from a group like HSLDA can be very beneficial. In my experience, they were correct and we (the school district) were in the wrong leading up to a lawsuit. The lawsuit was settled out of court and the family continued with hsing. I have seen 5 families in this scenario in 3 different school districts. As a hser, I personally have benefitted from HSLDA with issues also needing legal representation.

Edited May 7, 2010 by tex-mex

[Barb_]

I've just gotten my 3rd postcard advertising a different online public school...it's free!...it's a research-based curriculum!...it slices and dices!:glare:

I am sooo sick of all of these companies trying to entice me back into public school. ...I fear that soon there won't be enough homeschoolers who are educating without a governement program to defend the movement.

 

I remember this discussion from allll the way back in 2001 when K12 opened its first cyber charter in PA. It has never come close to happening. Cyber charters have grown exponentially since then, and homeschooling has grown at a steady pace. I've used cyber charters on and of for the past 7 years for this child one year, that one another, all my children once, for the one who was taking college classes (the cyber paid for them)...I think they are a great option! I privately homeschoool at least some of my children each year. I love having the option at my disposal.

 

That said, the administrative duties and oversight are enough to drive me batty. So I must take a break now and then and just drop all the cybers and privately homeschool. Many people start out with a cyber to get their feet wet and their confidence levels up and then strike out on their own in year or two. I think homeschooling gains as many converts from cybers as cybers gain from the homeschooling movement. Maybe more. I think overall, we aren't cannibalizing each other...we are taking our new converts mostly from the traditional b&m schools. The more non-traditional schoolers there are, the more power we wield. More power to us.

 

Barb

[Barb_]

Yes, government-funded schools like these *are*threats. People get sucked right into them because it's "free," and they don't realize the real freedom they are giving up. And yes, there have been problems in some communities because so many hsers jump into that pool, and then local school officials put immense pressure on homeschoolers to join the party.

 

Part of the problem is that people don't understand that these are *public schools," not homeschooling. It's a legal issue, and it does make a difference.

 

HSLDA has several good articles on them.

 

Are you talking about locally funded option? I've never heard of anyone pressured to join a cybercharter :confused: Please, details.

 

Barb

[Cammie]

Having been a former public schoolteacher and seeing how my former school district harassed homeschooling families... I can say that having representation from a group like HSLDA can be very beneficial. In my experience, they were correct and we (the school district) were in the wrong leading up to a lawsuit. The lawsuit was settled out of court and the family continued with hsing. I have seen 5 families in this scenario in 3 different school districts. As a hser, I personally have benefitted from HSLDA with issues also needing legal representation.

 

 

I am sure they do good work and have helped numerous homeschooling families that fit within their parameters of those they wish to represent. My only point was that just because HSLDA says they can or can't do something, doesn't mean that is the end of the story legally.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Cammie

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

The hs support group I belong to (300 families) feel the same way -- we do not allow membership for those who do cyber schooling.

 

I think it's so sad when people are intentionally excluded. I'm not directing this at you, personally, but just the idea makes me so sad. I wouldn't be proud of denying membership to families who obviously need support.

[Barb_]

I don't know enough about it to know if it's a threat or not. On the one hand, spread of online public schools might give the NEA cause to say that online ps should be the only homeschool option.

 

The NEA has been saying worse for the past 20 years. Look at how much we care :D

 

B-75. Home Schooling

PDF-page 45

 

B-75. Home Schooling The National Education Association believes that home schooling programs based on parental choice cannot provide the student with a comprehensive education experience. When home schooling occurs, students enrolled must meet all state curricular requirements, including the taking and passing of assessments to ensure adequate academic progress. Home schooling should be limited to the children of the immediate family, with all expenses being borne by the parents/guardians. Instruction should be by persons who are licensed by the appropriate state education licensure agency, and a curriculum approved by the state department of education should be used.

 

The Association also believes that home-schooled students should not participate in any extracurricular activities in the public schools.

 

The Association further believes that local public school systems should have the authority to determine grade placement and/or credits earned toward graduation for students entering or re-entering the public school setting from a home school setting. (1988, 2006)

[Cindyg]

I'm no more concerned about public "at home school" than private "at home school" programs such as Veritas Academy, BJU Academy, Abeka Academy, CLASS, Oak Meadow...

 

They are just as much a threat IMO, why? Because if the gov't ever decided to outright "outlaw" homeschooling, they could say -- there are other options, you can choose from these approved private at home schools.

 

None of those private "at home school" programs are so-called "parent-led." When you as a homeschooler choose the private "at home school" option, you are electing their curriculum, their standards, their rules. It's no different than the public "at school option." The only difference is who is providing the curriculum. A private "at home school" option can be supplemented, as can a public "at home school" option.

 

What really chaps me is that a private "school at home" family is given entrée' into all of the homeschool co-ops, HSLDA, NCFCA, whatever, and proudly wears the label "homeschooler" -- and those who have signed up for a public charter are "public school kids," with the "no trespassing signs" raised high.

 

More options are better for everyone. So, if you are going to be terrified that the gov't is going to be using these public charters as a method to end-run homeschooling, you'd better start worrying and boycotting all of the private at-home schoolers too! Just sayin

 

(Bold added by me.)

 

I gotta give this one a "What on earth?!"

 

We've used BJUP Homesat from Grades 1 through Grade 6. We've never taken one dime of government money. We are accountable to nobody who lives outside this home. Our homeschool is TOTALLY led by me personally -- my curriculum, my standards, my rules, my sweat-equity, my evaluation, my expertise, my choice, my schedule, my making it happen!

 

I can't imagine our local homeschool association keeping me (or anybody) out on the basis of their curriculum or methodology.

 

The government is never going to use BJUP to attack any homeschoolers. Trust me. That won't be their vehicle. BJUP is not government approved and never will be.

 

Now, back to the original topic: I agree that government-funded public school at home is a potential threat to homeschoolers. It has nothing to do with whether or not the curriculum is online. It's about the funding, not the method of delivery.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Cindyg

[StartingOver]

(Bold added by me.)

 

I gotta give this one a "What on earth?!"

 

Exactly what I was thinking. I couldn't even respond.

[Hedgehogs4]

:iagree:

 

Also, not all virtual public schools are lousy IMHO. My ds attends a K12 public school at home and the curriculum is outstanding and quite classical like IMHO. My son's ds school is mostly offline work as well since many hear cyber school and think it is all online and often that is not the case at all.

 

I believe in radical school choice including public cyber schools and homeschooling:001_smile:

 

It also saddens me that some homeschooling groups would want to exclude public cyber school students:( Fortunately, I belong to a homeschool co-op where homeschoolers and public cyber schoolers happily co-exist:)

 

Also as an aside, in our neck of the woods, the brick and mortar public schools hate public cyber schools because the money follows the student. IMHO I think they would rather we homeschool since the money would not follow the student. Of course, homeschoolers and cyber schoolers should be vigilant and express our opinions to our representatives.

 

For the record, I am also strongly in favor of homeschooling and would not want to see it over-regulated. I may end up doing homeschooling for my ds as well, but this year the public cyber option works for ds:)

 

i wasn't saying that the ps online schools were necessarily cr*ppy, i was referring to mc donald's (IMO). i actually have no idea about online schools--my point was that there are choices, and it is up to me to choose which option to utilize. sorry if that was perceived as a blanket statement of online schools...

[Pink Fairy]

We did a public charter school specifically for homeschoolers in California.

 

I could use any curriculum I wanted, and they would even pay for it if I wanted. I could tend when and how I wanted. The only thing I had to do was meet with a resource teacher once or twice a month, in which we mostly just chatted. That was the one and only extra rule. What it gave us was access to many, many field trips and to the Wednesday enrichment classes such as agriculture. And they helped pay for things like karate and horse riding lessons, if you wanted.

 

 

 

Yes, this describes our homeschooling very well.

 

 

 

 

People can not be public schoolers, through a public school program where the school receives funding for that student and a homeschooler at the same time.

 

They are just two different things. Like night and day.

 

Like Mama always said, "Who died and left you in charge?" I'm sure your opinion is worth something to your family, but the rest of us don't live under your rules for deciding who is a "real" homeschooler.

 

 

 

And there are restrictions, even though many charter school facilitators ignore them--more students enrolled, more ADA--regarding the use of religious materials. The California Constitution expressly forbids the use of religious instructional materials (regardless of who pays for them) as well as religious instruction at all in any public schools of the state, and charter schools are considered public schools of the state.

 

This is simply not true. You may use religious curricula as long as it covers California State Standards. You may not use government funding to purchase religious curricula.

[courtney.byrum]

Not bothered at all. I'm glad there is one more fish in the pool of education. :)

 

For some people, online schooling is a terrific gateway into the word of home education. They aren't quite confident enough to dive right in, and the online schooling is a way of getting their hand held until they get the hang of it.

 

FWIW, I know several people who tried public online schools and didn't care for it, so they did something else the next year.

 

That's us right there. I'm not confident enough to truly homeschool yet so we are going with a virtual charter for next year. The following year we may then move to doing it on our own, or we may stick with the charter, all depends on how the year goes.