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Ok...here's the scene: A group of homeschoolers have been getting together weekly for the last three months rehearsing for a play that they're going to be putting on for free for the homeschool community. There are about a dozen families and twice as many kids involved. There are two shows...one this week, another on the other side of town in two weeks.

 

But....three of the families have just announced that their little ones have the chicken pox. Which means that the entire cast has also been exposed. So...they are planning to go on with the play anyway. Thus, knowingly exposing every person in their audience to chicken pox. One of these families has one kid with pox and the other hasn't broken out....so the "healthy" kid is going to a baseball tourney this weekend with multiple visiting temas. They are all aware that their so-far healthy kids may break out in the next 7-10 days, and that they are all very potentially contagious right now.

 

I have to say I don't get this mentality. When my kids have the flu, or diarreah, or whatever I think may be contagious, I keep them home, even if it means we miss out on some fun....or disappoint our team.

 

I do understand that we have no way of knowing every time we take our family out in public whether the kid next to us is contagious. And that sometimes you don't even realize that your kid IS contagious especially for something like chicken pox, until it's almost too late. BUT...once you know, shouldn't you take the rest of the world into account and stay home and avoid infecting the rest?

 

My dilemma...I have organized a field trip next week and several of these families are scheduled to come. But also signed up is a family with a child who has serious health issues (I'm not sure what all they are as I try not to pry, but this child has been in and out of the hospital and at the doctors very often). Another child has had two heart surgeries in the last year or two and is a bit frail but holding his own. This field trip had to be paid in advance and they don't issue refunds. BUT, I don't think it right for these families to KNOWINGLY expose the over 100 people going, not to mention everyone else there not from our group. I can't decide whether I simply tell them they can't come because they are contagious. Or, do I warn the other families so they can decide whether to come. Obviously someone is going to lose money (it's about $8 per person so not devasting), but should it be the ones with a contagious child...or the ones that need to protect their fragile child? EDITED TO ADD: There are also at least TWO moms who are pregnant.....if they haven't already had pox, this could be quite serious for them and their unborn child. There are several families with infants as well.

 

And to add to it....my own kids have never had pox (though they had the vaccine as infants...and I need to research whether that's still protecting them a decade plus later). I have had pox three times.....twice as a young child and once as a teen (much worse case). My immunity to pox is obviously questionable...so chances are good that I will catch them, and as an adult it's going to be bad I'm told. But, I don't have much choice but to go...I'm coordinator. My DH has never had them, which means we'll be bringing them home to him.

 

I'm of half a mind to pay the refunds for the contagious out of my own pocket to protect my family and the other families.

 

So....I know this thread has the potential to become quite heated but I hope it won't. If I'm not understanding the other side, I'd like to.....but for the life of me I can't imagine KNOWINGLY exposing people to a disease that can have serious consequences for some children and be quite serious for adults as well.

 

My feeling is that there is a HUGE difference between exposing others because you didn't realize you were contagious...and knowingly exposing others when you are well aware. I don't happen to think keeping your child home for a week while they recover or while you see if they have them is asking too much....am I wrong?

 

Again, I ask that this not get heated...I seriously doubt that there is anyone here that is in my group so please don't take it personally...I won't be emailing you telling you not to come, lol.

Edited by ConnieB
edited to add: two moms are pregnant and several infants coming
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I think I would just try to reschedule the whole thing. Tell the field trip location that many of your members have come down with chicken pox and could you please reschedule. I am sure they will work with you. I am guessing that they don't want to be exposed either.

 

BRAVO for you! I am so tired of going on field trips and all these sick kids show up. My youngest has asthma and she gets sick EVERY. SINGLE. Time.

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Will the "field trip location" allow you to reschedule the date under the circumstances?

 

No it's a professional performance and there are only two dates, both this week.

 

I wish it was something like a museum where they'd probably insist that we reschedule. In fact, your question made me realize...this is a professional touring group, so after they leave our town they'll be moving on to the next. They do a "meet and greet" after the show, so they'll be in direct contact with these kids, not just 10 feet away on stage. Oy vey...that means THEY may contract it and move it on to the next town as well. I'm starting to see the pattern for how H1N1 spread worldwide so quickly all over again, lol.

Edited by ConnieB
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I think I would just try to reschedule the whole thing. Tell the field trip location that many of your members have come down with chicken pox and could you please reschedule. I am sure they will work with you. I am guessing that they don't want to be exposed either.

 

BRAVO for you! I am so tired of going on field trips and all these sick kids show up. My youngest has asthma and she gets sick EVERY. SINGLE. Time.

 

I know I was posting my answer to babysparkler at the same time you posted this....but rescheduling isn't possible. The theatre has two shows both this week, then they move on to another town.

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Although I'm very non-confrontational and would cringe at doing this, I would call the family that is ill and explain your concerns, especially about the pregnant women, infants, and children with health issues. I'd probably end up offering to refund their money and scramble to find someone to fill their spots.

 

Is this organized under a homeschooling group? Could you use liability to the group as an issue to ask them to sit out?

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Are they foreigners? Not every country vaccinates against chickenpox. Maybe they have a different attitude towards cp?

 

No, the three families that already have the pox are Americans, homeschooling here in my area for a great number of years.

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Is this organized under a homeschooling group? Could you use liability to the group as an issue to ask them to sit out?

 

No, it's not a formal group.

 

While it will not be my favorite thing to do, I have no qualms about telling the infected families to not come...for the protection of the pregnant women, the infants, the fragile and the cast if not for all the others in our group. There are over 100 people in our group, but the theatre holds several times this many...so it's not even just our group. This is kind of "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" type of situation in my mind.

 

I guess I'm just trying to be sure that my mind is right in it's thinking, lol. And seriously I am trying to understand their side of it....but I've having a lot of difficulty with their thought process. Again, I keep coming back to exposing people because you weren't aware is one thing, but knowingly exposing people I just can't wrap my head around their idea. In fact, I just went and read their latest emails, and they're jokingly saying that they should announce it to everyone they know, it might boost attendance by those who are always looking for a chicken pox party. That's great if you WANT to expose your child....happy partying...... but I am struggling mightily with what about those that don't want to be exposed, why don't their needs matter????

 

I was doing some research on communicable diseases and came across the story from 2007 of that guy who had TB was being held in isolation and the outrage that occured because he was being forced to stay isolated. Obviously pox isn't TB, but wow....why would someone feel that their potentially deadly disease is ok to spread so that they can go about their business and to bad for the rest of us!

 

I know this can easily turn to paranoia...and I'm trying not to let it. I do understand that everytime we step out the door we risk exposure...but it all keeps coming back, for me, to the unknowningly exposing vs. the knowingly exposing.

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If I was going to refund anyone's money, it would be the family with the sick kids not the other families as it should be the family with the sick kids to take responsibility and stay home. I can tell you that if I took my children to a field trip and people showed up that knowingly had chicken pox, I would be furious. I know many have a very relaxed attitude about their kids getting cp and actually want them to get it, but I am not one of them and I should be given a choice not have them exposed like that. There are also many adults that have never had cp that it could be very dangerous for.

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While it will not be my favorite thing to do, I have no qualms about telling the infected families to not come...for the protection of the pregnant women, the infants, the fragile and the cast if not for all the others in our group.

 

I guess I'm just trying to be sure that my mind is right in it's thinking, lol. And seriously I am trying to understand their side of it....but I've having a lot of difficulty with their thought process.

 

First of all, sick kids of any sort should not go, regardless of the frailty of other attendees. Period. But, given it is chicken pox (and I'll tell you *I* sure as heck don't want them again. Ever. For the rest of my life. :glare:) and given there are other people who do have compromised immune systems...I think it's a no-brainer that those people need to be told they can't come along. Actually, I think it's sad that they would need to be told in the first place.

 

As for refunding their money - it's not your fault their kids are sick. We have missed things we paid for in advance due to unforeseen circumstances. It's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. It's not your responsibility to refund the $ from your own pocket.

 

Good luck.

(a pox party? Gah!)

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And to add to it....my own kids have never had pox (though they had the vaccine as infants...and I need to research whether that's still protecting them a decade plus later). I have had pox three times.....twice as a young child and once as a teen (much worse case). My immunity to pox is obviously questionable...so chances are good that I will catch them, and as an adult it's going to be bad I'm told.

 

This is me too. Once as a child, once a teen and once a college student (breakout on campus). We (you and I) are at a very high risk for shingles which can be very bad.

 

I tend to stay away from kids I've learned don't vaccinate.

 

I would tell these sick families the risk they are putting so many people in and ask them not to come. Say I'm sorry we can't get refunds for your tickets this late, but that is what happens with preformances and sick kids. You should not have to refund them out of your pocket and if they make a fuss tell them that is where it would have to come from. IF they make a stink about coming anyway, tell them you feel, for the safety of the masses, you must inform the group that they are bringing their infectious selves along. I'm sure they already would know they are being selfish by coming, perhaps threatening to tell everyone else that the need to be avoided due to their cp status, would make them feel bad enough they'd stay home.

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I think that you ask the families with the chicken pox to stay home. If you want, you could call the theatre and ask them and they'll probably say the same thing... so you could use that instead of your own opinion if you wanted to. I think what is happening (their side) is "group think." They are all okay with chicken pox, maybe don't vaccinate, believe it's good for kids to get it anyway, etc. and so they are not thinking there is another side of it.

 

If you choose to use your own opinion, I would give respect to theirs while still holding the line: "I realize there are some parents that believe the best course for their own families is to go ahead and expose their children, but there are others who either just don't want their children exposed or for whom it would be dangerous for someone in their family. I'm sure you understand. Any child who is no longer contagious is of course welcome to come but those who are still contagious need to stay home. (Find out from a reputable medical source when they are or are not contagious so that you can spell this part out.)

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The only problem I'm seeing here is that chicken pox can have a two week 'catch' period [what's the word I want?] ...where person who has been 'exposed' may not come down with CP for two weeks.. so.. if a family has ONE child with chicken pox, are the rest of the [healthy] family members expected to quarantine themselves for two weeks? That isn't practical.

 

Of course, you don't bring SICK kids to recreational things.

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I think if you don't want them attending under these conditions, then you should only bring up your opinion/decision. You are planning the trip, so it's under your rules.

 

Leave the supposed Issues of other families out of it unless you speak to them about and they say they have a problem too. Don't speak for them until you've spoken to them.

 

People have very varying degrees of comfort zones in these situations.

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If I was going to refund anyone's money, it would be the family with the sick kids not the other families as it should be the family with the sick kids to take responsibility and stay home. I can tell you that if I took my children to a field trip and people showed up that knowingly had chicken pox, I would be furious. I know many have a very relaxed attitude about their kids getting cp and actually want them to get it, but I am not one of them and I should be given a choice not have them exposed like that. There are also many adults that have never had cp that it could be very dangerous for.

 

:iagree:

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My dad's good friend and co-worked died from getting chicken pox as an adult. He had sores inside his lungs and on his organs. What the family isn't understanding is that there are many, many people they are going to be around besides the kids who were already around them. Just sayin'.

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what is the correct protocol?

 

My children had CP so young I really don't know the answer to this. If someone in our homeschool group got CP so my children were exposed, would you recommend that we all stay home? Including DH? For how long? It just seems like every school and workplace in the country would be permanently shut down. Mine were vaccinated and then had very mild cases. They were young and were not in a lot of activities, so staying home wasn't a big deal, but it would have been for DH.

 

 

If DH called work and said he was taking a couple of weeks off because one of our children had CP (and then the next and then another) he would lose his job! He went to work. He had had CP as a child, though. Does that make a difference? Do people who have already had CP still carry and spread it to others if they are exposed?

 

I suppose that because my children have all had CP and had it pretty young, I never really thought about this, but it seems to me that most children have either had CP or have been vaccinated against it, so I would tend to think that if the general word went out that CP is going through the community, individual parents could decide whether that's a danger to their own child or not. Without thinking really hard about it (and you could change my mind here, lol) I would just think that children who are actually broken out with CP should stay home but their Dad have to still go to work and their siblings are probably still going to school ....

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if a family has ONE child with chicken pox, are the rest of the [healthy] family members expected to quarantine themselves for two weeks? That isn't practical.

 

Actually...(And kindly) Yes, if they are not already immune.

 

Any non-immune person (meaning someone who has not already had the c. pox or been immunized) who has been exposed to the chicken pox should stay home or limit contact to people who are already immune. It is the socially responsible thing to do.

 

It is inconvenient. It may not be practical from an individual standpoint, but it is absolutely practical from a community perspective.

 

One family's inconvenience needs to be weighed in a balance with the potential severity of illness that could affect an adult who gets shingles (very painful) or child with medical issues who gets chicken pox or the income issues for another family if a parent has to stay home with sick children or the health issues an infant might face if the mother contracts chicken pox while pregnant.

 

It's really hard to take responsibility for those kinds of outcomes because we don't know when and to whom they were exposed. We don't see the direct link between our child, say, sneezing on the playground equipment and another child getting chicken pox. And the incidences of serious outcomes are low. But we do know that contagious people spread chicken pox and we know the incubation period and we know the there could be potentially serious outcomes for others. So yeah, everyone potentially contagious should stay home.

 

Cat

Edited by myfunnybunch
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The fact that you have no immunity and are the coordinator makes this easy, IMO. Simply let the parents of these families know that you've caught the CP every time you've been exposed and that you have immuno-compromised children coming and they cannot come and expose you all. Sorry, hope you can come next time. It may cause a stink, but you're the coordinator. You have to be ther, os they cannot. Kinda takes the us vs. them out of the equation. And even if they get upset, I wouldn't worry about it. But stand your ground.

 

My kids recently had the chicken pox. We had people visit to get exposed, but we were careful not to go anywhere, perhaps even longer than we needed. Some people want to be exposed, but we don't really have the right to make that decision for them. DH's grandma lacks immunity also, so even (immune) adults who came to visit our children stayed away from her for a week or so to make sure they didn't carry it back.

 

ETA- they are contagious a day or two before breaking out until a week after breaking out if all the spots are crusted over. So the other family members, if they are not immune already, should stay home too. They could get it at any time, up to 3 weeks later. If you've been near them already and want to boost your immune system, I gave my kids Sambucus (black elderberry) and vitamin D. They had a *much* milder case and were sick less than a week.

Edited by Scuff
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I have to say, that with Chicken Pox, I think that it's safest to stay away from children who just got vaccinated, within the time that they are potentially contagious... and kids with Chicken Pox. Which means... if you think about it... you are potentially exposed all the time... And.. things like this are all around... all the time... from Chx Pox to Fifth Disease... which is another "Pox" thing that was going around when I was pregnant... (That's what it's called, right??) So, although I'd stay away if I had kids that had the chx pox... those are probably the least contagious... and all the exposed are the "most contagious".

 

Just a FYI, if you get the chx pox... you can get meds... (not the varicella shot...) but the one to help you get over viruses quicker. It's awesome. My son was getting a secondary issue from the chx pox and it cleared up straight away!! (If only it had been offered earlier...)

 

:)

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Well, are they intending to bring children who are actually sick or children who have just been exposed? To me, it wouldn't be right to bring children who were actually sick. On the other hand, I don't think it's right to tell them the healthy members of their family can't come. It's true they've been exposed, but then all of the rest of your group probably has been as well. I would not require people who are not sick to stay home just in case they might get sick. I do think the group should be notified that chicken pox is circulating though in case there is someone with a health issue who doesn't want to take any chances.

 

I know people feel differently on this, but these are my thoughts.

 

Lisa

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At this point I think it would be hard to tell who will be contagious when the activity is held. Kids with chicken pox are contagious for about a week before the first spots appear and for a week after (until the spots are scabbed over). Any child that has spots now will probably be past the contagious period by the time the activity is held. The incubation period (from exposure to first spots) can be 2 to 3 weeks so kids that were exposed before the first child got spots could be contagious but not yet symptomatic at the time of the activity.

 

There is really no way to accurately tell which kids are contagious and which are past the contagious period (or never got sick). I would probably send out a group email to let everyone know that there is a chicken pox outbreak and exposure is possible so that each family can make their own decision.

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if a family has ONE child with chicken pox, are the rest of the [healthy] family members expected to quarantine themselves for two weeks? That isn't practical.

 

Actually...(And kindly) Yes, if they are not already immune.

 

Any non-immune person (meaning someone who has not already had the c. pox or been immunized) who has been exposed to the chicken pox should stay home or limit contact to people who are already immune. It is the socially responsible thing to do.

 

It is inconvenient. It may not be practical from an individual standpoint, but it is absolutely practical from a community perspective.

 

One families inconvenience needs to be weighed in a balance with the potential severity of illness that could affect an adult who gets shingles (very painful) or child with medical issues who gets chicken pox or the income issues for another family if a parent has to stay home with sick children or the health issues an infant might face if the mother contracts chicken pox while pregnant.

 

It's really hard to take responsibility for those kinds of outcomes because we don't know when and to whom they were exposed. We don't see the direct link between our child, say, sneezing on the playground equipment and another child getting chicken pox. And the incidences of serious outcomes are low. But we do know that contagious people spread chicken pox and we know the incubation period and we know the there could be potentially serious outcomes for others. So yeah, everyone potentially contagious should stay home.

 

Cat

 

"One families inconvenience"

 

It's not an "inconvenience" when someone loses their job because they didn't come to work for two weeks, just in case they caught the chicken pox.

 

If my husband called into work and said "hey, one of our kids has chicken pox so I won't be coming to work for the next couple of weeks" -- they'd laugh at him.. and when they realized he was serious, they'd fire him.

 

People can't just quit going to work anytime someone in the family has a catchy illness.

 

Even if someone was lucky enough to not get fired for a stunt like that, many many, MANY people can't just skip an entire paycheque!

 

I realize that people should do their best ~ but I also realize that people can not just drop out of life everytime someone in the house is sick...

 

ETA: I'm not saying that I don't recognize an element of risk, and if our family landed in a situation like this I certainly would do the best I could to keep anyone that I knew faced additional risk from being 'exposed' .. but I couldn't expect my husband to take off work for a few weeks, or other necessary things... there has to be a balance.

 

Curious - can someone who has *had* the chicken pox carry it to someone who has not? or only someone who hasn't? I don't know how that works..

Edited by fivetails
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For the record, children who have been vaccinated actually pose a much greater threat than those who have not simply because they can (and often are) asymptomatic carriers. This is true of the other diseases we vaccinate for as well.

 

Your child is not in danger from an unvaccinated child. but the unvaccinated child is in danger from yours.

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Actually...(And kindly) Yes, if they are not already immune.

 

Any non-immune person (meaning someone who has not already had the c. pox or been immunized) who has been exposed to the chicken pox should stay home or limit contact to people who are already immune. It is the socially responsible thing to do.

 

It is inconvenient. It may not be practical from an individual standpoint, but it is absolutely practical from a community perspective.

 

One families inconvenience needs to be weighed in a balance with the potential severity of illness that could affect an adult who gets shingles (very painful) or child with medical issues who gets chicken pox or the income issues for another family if a parent has to stay home with sick children or the health issues an infant might face if the mother contracts chicken pox while pregnant.

 

It's really hard to take responsibility for those kinds of outcomes because we don't know when and to whom they were exposed. We don't see the direct link between our child, say, sneezing on the playground equipment and another child getting chicken pox. And the incidences of serious outcomes are low. But we do know that contagious people spread chicken pox and we know the incubation period and we know the there could be potentially serious outcomes for others. So yeah, everyone potentially contagious should stay home.

 

Cat

 

The PS policy here is unless the child his/herself is sick, they come to school. The attendence policy doesn't allow for children to stay home because they have been exposed to an illness (even an epidemic one) and certainly not 10 days to 2 weeks. So even if every other child in the household had say CP or strep throat or the flu, if one child is well, that child is required to attend. Obviously, public policy is dictated more on the needs of the many (community needs to keep functioning) than the needs of the few (a few people may get sick). I don't set policy, I am just sharing what it is. ;)

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Obviously an adult cannot stay home if they are exposed to chicken pox but they are also not all over each other like children tend to be. My husband can go to work and be in his office pretty much by himself unless he has a meeting. When I had shingles, I had to go to work but I severely limited my exposure to other people (My doc did clear me to go to work FYI). My children however have much more intimate exposure with other children. I believe that if you had cp moving through your children, you should stay home until it clears. Issues like this are one of the reasons why I no longer go to homeschool groups because too many people believe it is OK to expose my kids to things because they wouldn't mind or for whatever other reason. We have been much healthier since I ditched the homeschool and Mom's groups.

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Aren't most kids vaccinated against chicken pox these days?

 

Back in the day when everyone got the pox. . . if everyone quarantined the whole household for over a week b/c ONE person had it. . .well, noone would ever have left the house, lol.

 

I *tried* for years to get my now13yo to get chicken pox when she was a toddler but finally gave up and vaccinated the whole gang of them when my oldest was 7 or so. . .

 

I would assume that if a child is immune compromised, they've been vaccinated. (Yes, I know the vaccine isn't 100%.) If someone has chosen not to vaccinate, presumably they prefer to GET IT. If someone has fragile health, they'll know best how to decide what to do. Most pregnant women have had the pox in childhood so won't worry much. . .

 

You can't control other people. . . (either vaccination status or choice to go out in public. . .) . . .

 

In your shoes, I'd probably put out an announcement re: the potential that some folks MIGHT be contagious (unknowingly) so that folks who don't want to get it will stay home. . . It sucks, but I wouldn't try to police it if I were in your shoes. If you could make the announcement in a public forum (yahoo group or mass email) so that OTHER people can voice their requests "Why don't the sickies stay home, for gosh sakes?!?" . . . well, that'd be just fine.

 

Put out the info and let people make their own decisions. It's not under your control.

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Your child is not in danger from an unvaccinated child. but the unvaccinated child is in danger from yours.

 

Wow, this is absolute BUNK. Do what you want, within the law, I guess. . .

 

But, really, this is dangerous misinformation.

 

I know I won't change YOUR mind, but I had to say SOMETHING to alert fence-sitters that they really should research this issue independently.

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Wow, this is absolute BUNK. Do what you want, within the law, I guess. . .

 

But, really, this is dangerous misinformation.

 

I know I won't change YOUR mind, but I had to say SOMETHING to alert fence-sitters that they really should research this issue independently.

 

IF vaccines are as effective as you seem to think they are, then your vaccinated child is immune from the disease an unvaccinated child is carrying, but that unvaccinated child is NOT immune from any illnesses for which vaccinated children are asymptomatic carriers.

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IF vaccines are as effective as you seem to think they are, then your vaccinated child is immune from the disease an unvaccinated child is carrying, but that unvaccinated child is NOT immune from any illnesses for which vaccinated children are asymptomatic carriers.

 

My son got it from a friend... who absolutely got it from his vaccine. (So, he got the shot... contracted chx pox... gave it to the little girl... and my son got it from her.)

 

Course, I wanted him to get the Chx Pox.... And I'm happy that... whew... it's over!!

 

:)

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ETA: I'm not saying that I don't recognize an element of risk, and if our family landed in a situation like this I certainly would do the best I could to keep anyone that I knew faced additional risk from being 'exposed' .. but I couldn't expect my husband to take off work for a few weeks, or other necessary things... there has to be a balance.

 

I'm sorry, let me clarify. I'm not saying no one who may have been exposed to chicken pox can ever go out in public.

 

If we're talking about an adult who has to support his or her family and will be primarily around other adults, missing work is beyond an inconvenience. Or an asymptomatic child who will miss a week of school or with whom a parent would have to miss work. And most adults have either had chicken pox or been vaccinated, as have most children in a public school. I do think in this case, it would be polite to tell coworkers and teachers about the exposure so that anyone who hasn't had chicken pox can keep their distance.

 

When I used the word "inconvenience", I was thinking of the context of the OP's post. It *is* an inconvenience for children not to go to a play. It may not be considered practical to have to lose the money. But it is the responsible thing to do, to keep home unvaccinated children who are more likely to have had prolonged contact with an infected child and who don't have jobs to lose, from a homeschool family in which (presumably) there is an adult home who doesn't have to call in sick to work, from a recreational activity.

 

Cat

Edited by myfunnybunch
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