Are Christian churches pretty much all creationists??? (no debates, please!)

[HeidiKC]

Thanks for reading...I am not looking for any kind of debate or explanation. Now that I'm looking at various homeschool groups/co-ops, etc. and many of them are associated with Christian churches, I'm just wondering if I can safely assume that they do not believe in the theory of evolution and are creationist. Of course I could ask... but I'd rather not! And not interested in discussing it with them!

 

So I guess these are the groups I'm wondering about:

 

- Mainline Protestant denominations

- Evangelical Protestant churches

- (I know the Catholic Church does not have a firm position on this)

 

I'm not wondering about ultra-liberal Christian churches!

 

Thanks, and again I'm not really looking for debate/explanation, just kind of a yes or no if you'd be so kind! Thanks so much.

[Cammie]

Grew up mainstream Protestant (dad was an American Baptist preacher and is now a Congregational preacher) - no problem with evolution - was NEVER a topic of discussion or debate growing up.

[newlifemom]

Unfortunately, I do not think there is such a thing as a yes or no answer anymore. There are too many variables. Sorry.

[Mrs Mungo]

If you mean 6 day creationist, then I would say not necessarily. If you mean do they think God created the world and everything in it in one way or another, then I would say yes.

[BikeBookBread]

Our independent conservative (on the larger side) church is vehemently 24 hour day creationist....to the point that they had a sermon series about it being an important point of theology (this was before our time, and we didn't know about this until we had been at the church for a while).

 

DH and I do not believe in a 24 hour-day creation model, though we definitely believe God created the world according to the Biblical account (we just believe in a different interpretation, I suppose), but we have never brought it up in any capacity with our friends or church leadership, as we don't think it is a hill to die on.

[titianmom]

If by this you mean God created the heavens and the Earth. It's kind of hard to call yourself Christian if you don't believe there's a God who created everything. Otherwise you're just a philosopher who goes to church for whatever reason.

 

Now, if you're asking if all Christian churches believe in a literal 7 day creation or are there any that might be open to theistic evolution, then the answer is, probably most evangelical Protestant churches are literal 7 day with some open to other possibilities on the exact length of time God took to create the Universe. Most don't sit around arguing about it one way or the other, though.

 

There are some mainline Protestant denominations that don't even believe in God let alone a 7 day creation, which I really don't consider Christian. I'm not trying to be snide, just looking at the definition of what Christian is--Jesus the Son of God, died for all of us to redeem us back to God, rose again on the 3rd day and is now in heaven, God's Holy Spirit as counselor and helper to believers and working in the world to lead people to Christ--basic beliefs shared by both Protestant and Catholic faiths.

 

Hope this helps.

Kim

[jade]

I would say that the more one identifies as an Evangelical Christian the more likely that they might believe the Bible as the literal word of God, which means that they believe in the 7-day creation story.

 

Many mainstream Protestants have a wide variety of views on creation. As someone who's been Lutheran and now Presbyterian, I've found, like the previous poster, that many are not strict creationists. I pretty much accept evolution.

[Cammie]

 

There are some mainline Protestant denominations that don't even believe in God let alone a 7 day creation, which I really don't consider Christian.

 

Kim

 

I am really confused...what mainstream Protestant denomination doesn't believe in God??

[milovany]

The Orthodox church belief is summarized in the following (taken from our diocesan website):

 

CREATION. Orthodox Christians confess God as Creator of heaven and earth (Genesis 1:1, the Nicene Creed). Creation did not just happen into existence. God made it all. "By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God . . ." (Hebrews 11:3). Orthodox Christians do not believe the Bible to be a scientific textbook on creation, as some mistakenly maintain, but rather God's revelation of Himself and His salvation. Also, helpful as they may be, we do not view scientific textbooks as God's revelation. They may contain both known facts and speculative theory. They are not infallible. Orthodox Christians refuse to build an unnecessary and artificial wall between science and the Christian Faith. Rather, they under*stand honest scientific investigation as a potential encouragement to faith, for all truth is from God.

[asta]

The Catholic Church believes that God created the evolutionary process.

 

 

a

[JillZ]

We attend a Southern Baptist Church, and there is no official stand at our church on Creation. Personally, we believe God is creator of all, but evolution could be a possible way of creating life. There are still many young-earth creationists at our church, although there are many who believe the same as we do.

 

I grew up in a independent Baptist church which was strictly young-earth creationist, almost to the point of believing it is required for salvation.

[HeidiKC]

Eeek! I knew this would be a hard one! Sorry.

 

When I asked whether they were creationist, I believe the definition of that is not that God created the earth (which I THINK all Christians believe!), but something more like this:

 

Definition: Creationism is the religious doctrine, opposed to naturalistic evolution, that life on this planet was created by a special, unique act of God. Creationism goes beyond this traditional religious belief, however, in asserting that this belief can be proven empirically and scientifically.

 

I guess I could look up online what each mainline Protestant church has as it's official stance on this. I think it would be harder to do that for many of the smaller or evangelical churches. I realize that all Christians believe that God created the earth (that's not what I meant by creationist).

 

And yikes, REALLY don't want to get a debate going on whether mainline churches are even Christian.

 

And a note: I don't hold a literal creationist view myself, so it's not like I'm trying to AVOID churches that might accept evolution. Just trying to figure this all out where churches generally stand. I am Catholic, so it's never been a huge issue before! But I know that it's a big deal to other Christians, but not sure if it's all of them or what.

[HeidiKC]

Jillz - thank you very much for this response. Explains a lot to me!

[WishboneDawn]

I think probably most Christians don't belong to a church that espouses a creationist doctrine. Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Church of England...none of those are creationist. You find in mainly in denominations with roots in or ties to early 20th century fundamentalism. But even then it's a mixed bag. I think most people would hear someone's an evangelical Baptist for instance and assume they're a creationist, yet Jimmy Carter is one example of one who isn't and he's not alone.

 

I should say too that I find it's generally only Americans that I hear assuming that being a Christian must mean being a creationist. You'll probably find the odd creationist in most countries but I think that for the most part, at least in the modern sense of it, it's a product of American Christianity as opposed to Christianity as a whole.

[Ellie]

The Catholic Church believes that God created the evolutionary process.

I think it would be more accurate to say that the Church's position is that God created everything, whether that is evolution or special creation. IOW, the Church doesn't take a position on which one, only that God did it.

[Wheres Toto]

I took your question to mean a belief in a Young Earth/24 hour day/7 day Creation?

 

I grew up United Methodist. They don't take any stance on Evolution but below is their statement on Science in general. I know the UMC is pretty liberal on most issues, pretty much a "live and let live" attitude. I've definitely never heard anything resembling a belief in a literal, 24 hour day/7 day Creation.

 

Science and Technology

We recognize science as a legitimate interpretation of God’s natural world. We affirm the validity of the claims of science in describing the natural world, although we preclude science from making authoritative claims about theological issues. We recognize technology as a legitimate use of God’s natural world when such use enhances human life and enables all of God’s children to develop their God-given creative potential without violating our ethical convictions about the relationship of humanity to the natural world.

In acknowledging the important roles of science and technology, however, we also believe that theological understandings of human experience are crucial to a full understanding of the place of humanity in the universe. Science and theology are complementary rather than mutually incompatible. We therefore encourage dialogue between the scientific and theological communities and seek the kind of participation that will enable humanity to sustain life on earth and, by God’s grace, increase the quality of our common lives together.

From The Book of Discipline of The United Methodist Church - 2004. Copyright 2004 by The United Methodist Publishing House. Used by permission.

[WishboneDawn]

I think it would be more accurate to say that the Church's position is that God created everything, whether that is evolution or special creation. IOW, the Church doesn't take a position on which one, only that God did it.

 

Although the Vatican do consistently have some of the most excellent astronomers in their employ who give the most wonderful and insightful interviews, talks and such about how modern science views the universe. I tend to think the Jesuit order is one of the RC churches great gifts to humanity. :)

[Jenny in GA]

If you mean 6 day creationist, then I would say not necessarily. If you mean do they think God created the world and everything in it in one way or another, then I would say yes.

 

:iagree:

What she said.

 

We are not 6-day creationists, or "young earth creationists." I told my husband recently that it feels like we're the only Christians we know who are NOT young earth creationists, even across denominations.

 

His response was that it is probably different outside of the Bible Belt.

[asta]

I think it would be more accurate to say that the Church's position is that God created everything, whether that is evolution or special creation. IOW, the Church doesn't take a position on which one, only that God did it.

 

Good point. I was trying to boil it down, as the RCC does acknowledge evolution (which many people do not realize).

 

a

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree:

What she said.

 

We are not 6-day creationists, or "young earth creationists." I told my husband recently that it feels like we're the only Christians we know who are NOT young earth creationists, even across denominations.

 

His response was that it is probably different outside of the Bible Belt.

 

Who wants to start an internet "not-necessarily-six-day-creationists who are okay with Harry Potter and wearing bikinis" church with me?

[Parrothead]

I think it would be more accurate to say that the Church's position is that God created everything, whether that is evolution or special creation. IOW, the Church doesn't take a position on which one, only that God did it.

:iagree:

[QueenCat]

We go to an United Methodist Church. Their official stance was explained by a previous poster. Most people in my church take a God created the world and every thing in it viewpoint but not in 6, 24 hour days. Creationist, yes, but not literal, 6 day. Technically, old earth creationist.

[lovemyboys]

Not in my experience, if you're meaning creationist to the exclusion of all other considerations.

[justamouse]

I think probably most Christians don't belong to a church that espouses a creationist doctrine. Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Church of England...none of those are creationist. You find in mainly in denominations with roots in or ties to early 20th century fundamentalism. But even then it's a mixed bag. I think most people would hear someone's an evangelical Baptist for instance and assume they're a creationist, yet Jimmy Carter is one example of one who isn't and he's not alone.

 

I should say too that I find it's generally only Americans that I hear assuming that being a Christian must mean being a creationist. You'll probably find the odd creationist in most countries but I think that for the most part, at least in the modern sense of it, it's a product of American Christianity as opposed to Christianity as a whole.

 

That is REALLY interesting.

 

Every church that I ever went to (Non denominationals) all believed in 6 day creation and it was their hill to die on.

 

Not that I believe in it or go to those churches anymore.

 

Anywho, I would ask.

[Melora in NC]

Who wants to start an internet "not-necessarily-six-day-creationists who are okay with Harry Potter and wearing bikinis" church with me?

 

Sounds good to me, as long as we don't have to wear bikinis In church!

[bbmom]

None of the churches I've been to (Presbyterian, United Methodist, United Church of Christ, even Episcopal) have believed in a 6 day creation/young earth. I imagine, however, that it would depend on what part of the country you are attending church in-we have always lived in pretty liberal areas, so I am not surprised the views of the churches reflected the community.

[KristenS]

I'm a member of a mainline denomination, in a fairly open-minded church, and I would suspect I'm the only person (under the age of 70, anyway) who would be considered a young-earth creationist.

 

Yeah, I'm the oddball in oh so many ways. LOL.

[Denise in Florida]

No.

 

:001_smile:

 

Some areas of the country have a vocal minority that make it seem as if most Christian churches believe in literal young earth creationism. I have been an active Christian in a mainline denomination most of my life, I never heard the issue addressed as a big problem until I moved to the south.

 

I my unscientific opinion, with absolutely no statistics to back it up, I think it is not a big deal to most people.:lol:

[Annabel Lee]

If you mean 6 day creationist, then I would say not necessarily. If you mean do they think God created the world and everything in it in one way or another, then I would say yes.

 

:iagree: If they believe the Bible, that is. :tongue_smilie: So many just pick and choose which parts they prefer anymore though that I have to agree w/ a PP who said it really may vary. I think for the most part, you can assume Christian = creationist.

[Rhonda in TX]

In our conservative Christian church, I've run into old-earthers and young-earthers. Everybody agrees that God created the world, but they disagree on exactly how he did it. It's never discussed from the pulpit and is not a point of salvation.

 

I, personally, am a young-earther, but my faith would not be affected if I found out I was wrong.

[Wheres Toto]

Who wants to start an internet "not-necessarily-six-day-creationists who are okay with Harry Potter and wearing bikinis" church with me?

 

 

There's a semi-new Facebook group called "I homeschool and I teach the science of evolution".

[6packofun]

Our previous, non-denominational church approached creation in the best possible way, IMO, to allow people to come to their own conclusions on an issue that our salvation does NOT hinge upon. Our pastor said, "We believe that God created the universe. Period. Here are the 5-6 main variations on that truth which all have arguments and scientists behind them." And then he presented those without saying which he personally believed in. (We were friends, so I happen to know that he was a literal, 24-hour day, 6-day, young earth creationist who respected the other theories.)

 

I have not decided for myself which aspects of the history of our planet I am "sure" of, but I do not fret about it. I know God did it all. :) One thing I read recently about interpreting the Bible as (partly) a piece of literature is that many scholars see strong similarities in Genesis 1 to *poetry*, in which case that could very well be symbolic in the how of creation, but certainly not in the all-important WHO!

[WishboneDawn]

:iagree: If they believe the Bible, that is. :tongue_smilie: So many just pick and choose which parts they prefer anymore though that I have to agree w/ a PP who said it really may vary. I think for the most part, you can assume Christian = creationist.

 

I really don't want anyone to think of me as a creationist and I really don't want Christian to equal creationist. The term has very specific implications in terms of science, politics and religion. I am not a creationist. I am a Christian who believes God is the creator and accepts the science of evolution and an old universe.

[Orthodox6]

I would not include the Orthodox Church in your list of "non-creationists", because we fall somewhere in between the customary endpoints of the spectrum.

 

None of us [Orthodox] can accept the modern accretions to Darwin's work such as the "Big Bang Theory", or (if, indeed, contemporary science books still teach this next theory, which appeared during my early teens) claims that life began from some "sparking" of chemicals in the "soup". Macro-evolution, with some of its more extreme claims, we reject.

 

On the other hand, we do not normally adhere to a literal "six-day creation, with days of 24-hours each". (The Bible itself refutes that proposition, anyway.) In Orthodox theology, numbers often are highly symbolic, not literal. For us, there is no way ever of knowing how long each of the "six days" actually lasted.

 

Essentially, the Orthodox Church is not part of this academic/religious wrangling. Everything I have read indicates that the questions arose within Protestantism, as hinted here by WishboneDawn.

 

St. Basil's work on the topic, The Hexameron, presents much of Orthodox thought. In addition, the published notes of the late Fr. Seraphim Rose (under the title, Genesis, Creation, and Early Man) are invaluable for studying Orthodox Christian thought on this topic.

 

 

 

I think probably most Christians don't belong to a church that espouses a creationist doctrine. Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Church of England...none of those are creationist. You find in mainly in denominations with roots in or ties to early 20th century fundamentalism. But even then it's a mixed bag. I think most people would hear someone's an evangelical Baptist for instance and assume they're a creationist, yet Jimmy Carter is one example of one who isn't and he's not alone.

 

I should say too that I find it's generally only Americans that I hear assuming that being a Christian must mean being a creationist. You'll probably find the odd creationist in most countries but I think that for the most part, at least in the modern sense of it, it's a product of American Christianity as opposed to Christianity as a whole.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Orthodox6

[JenC3]

So a young earther believes that the earth is only 4,000 yrs old?

[babysparkler]

If you mean 6 day creationist, then I would say not necessarily. If you mean do they think God created the world and everything in it in one way or another, then I would say yes.

:iagree:

[LibraryLover]

Darwin says nothing whatsoever about 'Big Bang". People confuse this, I know.

 

I would not include the Orthodox Church in your list of "non-creationists", because we fall somewhere in between the customary endpoints of the spectrum.

 

None of us [Orthodox] can accept the modern accretions to Darwin's work such as the "Big Bang Theory", or (if, indeed, contemporary science books still teach this next theory, which appeared during my early teens) claims that life began from some "sparking" of chemicals in the "soup". Macro-evolution, with some of its more extreme claims, we reject.

 

On the other hand, we do not normally adhere to a literal "six-day creation, with days of 24-hours each". (The Bible itself refutes that proposition, anyway.) In Orthodox theology, numbers often are highly symbolic, not literal. For us, there is no way ever of knowing how long each of the "six days" actually lasted.

 

Essentially, the Orthodox Church is not part of this academic/religious wrangling. Everything I have read indicates that the questions arose within Protestantism, as hinted here by WishboneDawn.

 

St. Basil's work on the topic, The Hexameron, presents much of Orthodox thought. In addition, the published notes of the late Fr. Seraphim Rose (under the title, Genesis, Creation, and Early Man) are invaluable for studying Orthodox Christian thought on this topic.

[Cricket]

I am really confused...what mainstream Protestant denomination doesn't believe in God??

 

I don't think there is a particular denomination that doesn't believe in God but here is the story of one so-called Christian leader that doubts the very existence of Jesus Christ. Here is an interesting article written by Al Mohler about pastors who are atheists. Apparently that can happen in liberal and conservative churches.

[BikeBookBread]

Darwin says nothing whatsoever about 'Big Bang". People confuse this, I know.

 

Yep. There are old-universe/earth creationists who believe in The Big Bang, as well. Here's a helpful chart comparing views. I'm sure there are shades of grey all along the spectrum between these viewpoints, but it is a good starting point.

 

ETA: I'm not necessarily advocating any one point, nor am I recommending or not recommending the source of this chart...it's just a good chart, although I do have an opinion ;)

Edited March 27, 2010 by BikeBookBread

[Mrs Mungo]

One thing I read recently about interpreting the Bible as (partly) a piece of literature is that many scholars see strong similarities in Genesis 1 to *poetry*, in which case that could very well be symbolic in the how of creation, but certainly not in the all-important WHO!

 

Just to expand upon that-parts of Genesis are in lyrical verse. To literary scholars that indicates that those parts are older because they likely stem from an oral tradition. Oral traditions predate written verse or prose.

[LizzyBee]

So a young earther believes that the earth is only 4,000 yrs old?

 

I typically hear more like 6,000 - 10,000 years.

[Orthodox6]

Darwin says nothing whatsoever about 'Big Bang". People confuse this, I know.

 

I used the word "accretions" to show that I know this. I guess the word is sort of "buried" in the sentence.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Orthodox6

[LibraryLover]

I used the word "accretions" to show that I know this. I guess the word is sort of "buried" in the sentence.

 

Your meaning may be.

[Cammie]

I don't think there is a particular denomination that doesn't believe in God but here is the story of one so-called Christian leader that doubts the very existence of Jesus Christ. Here is an interesting article written by Al Mohler about pastors who are atheists. Apparently that can happen in liberal and conservative churches.

 

 

While I appreciate those links, they don't answer the original question regarding mainstream Christain churches. One is a story about an ex-Catholic priest that clearly has left the mainstream. The other is an article by a very conservative denomination using anecdotal stories of 5 pastors who have had a crisis of faith to justify attacking the concept of there being many paths to god.

 

The poster I was questioning said there were mainstream Christian denominations that didn't believe in God. I would really like to know which denominations those are??

[chiguirre]

Darwin says nothing whatsoever about 'Big Bang". People confuse this, I know.

 

It was actually a Catholic priest, Georges Lemaitre, who first proposed the Big Bang. Here's a link to a brief bio:

 

http://www.amnh.org/education/resources/rfl/web/essaybooks/cosmic/p_lemaitre.html

[Cammie]

It was actually a Catholic priest, Georges Lemaitre, who first proposed the Big Bang. Here's a link to a brief bio:

 

http://www.amnh.org/education/resources/rfl/web/essaybooks/cosmic/p_lemaitre.html

 

 

I really like your Voltaire quote in your signature!!

[Parrothead]

I typically hear more like 6,000 - 10,000 years.

For the young earthers that follow the Jewish year today is Nissan 11, 5770, and the earth is only 5770 years old.

 

Other young earthers believe up to 10,000 years.

 

And there are people of the Jewish faith that are young earth creationists.

[EthiopianFood]

Yep. There are old-universe/earth creationists who believe in The Big Bang, as well. Here's a helpful chart comparing views. I'm sure there are shades of grey all along the spectrum between these viewpoints, but it is a good starting point.

 

Thank you for sharing this. I found it to be very interesting and helpful.

[Orthodox6]

Your meaning may be.

 

My meaning may be what ? Your reply is cryptic.

 

My original post was written clearly to indicate my knowing that later ideas have been added to the discussions of evolution, ideas not part of Darwin's work; I cited two such examples.

[WishboneDawn]

It was actually a Catholic priest, Georges Lemaitre, who first proposed the Big Bang. Here's a link to a brief bio:

 

http://www.amnh.org/education/resources/rfl/web/essaybooks/cosmic/p_lemaitre.html

 

It's sort of funny because I seem to remember reading that a scientist or two found the Big Bang objectionable because it was "creationist". It implied a first cause or moment of creation. :)