Do you spank your children?

[PineFarmMom]

:confused: I thought you weren't passing judgment on anyone?

 

My thoughts exactly!!

 

I actually think current parenting methods are not as good as many of the past ones. There are a few new things that are worth using, but most of the parenting techniques of the past 30 years are failures, imo.

[HRAAB]

Do you mean to come across as high mighty?

 

I'm curious, because what I've just read, in your post, is a bash on someone's parents. Oh, your parents were nice, but my parents were great people. Was that the intent?

 

My intent was to ask a question. Was spanking truly the only form of punishment that would work? PQR stated that was the case, or that was what I interpreted. I do find it hard to believe that only spanking would work - that there isn't any other consequence that would work just as well. Cleaning out irrigation ditches comes to mind, but there are quite a few that don't include spanking. He said he was thankful to his parents for raising him the way they did, and apparently they did a good job. From his posts, he seems to be a man of integrity. But was spanking the only way to achieve that? That was my question.

 

Where did I attack his parents? I asked if there was anything else his parents could have done to achieve the same end result. I do not see that as an attack on his parents. I have found that many people never look beyond spanking because they feel it's time tested and proven. Why change it if it works. That is a valid point, but there are other ways.

 

My parents also achieved the same end goal, without spanking, and there was one of us that was way more than a handful. I'm also very thankful for the values my parents passed on to me, and I do admire the fact that they did it without using corporal punishment. I love and admire my parents as much as PQR does. He was pointing his parents raised good children with spanking; I pointed my parents did the same without.

 

I did not mean to sound high and mighty. I apologize if I did. However, I will never believe that striking a child is the only way to get the end result.

 

Janet

[Angel]

For those of you who are debating the Bible and God's discipline, how do you interpret Hebrews 12:6-7 "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?" KJV

 

Dictionary.com lists ...

 

chasten - to inflict suffering upon for purposes of moral improvement; chastise.

 

scourge - to punish, chastise, or criticize severely

 

I only chose one of the definitions for each word.

 

I know this is off topic of spanking, but I've been curious about this before after reading similar discussions but have never had the courage to ask. Maybe someone can tell me how they interpret these verses differently. Thanks.

 

ETA: I'm not using this verse in regards to spanking, this was totally based off some of the discussions on how God deals with us.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Angel

[Tree House Academy]

Spoken as the mother of only one child. :) I remember when my two youngest kids and my (only child) nephew were playing a card game (they were 5, 4, and 4) at the time. I walked past and casually asked, "Who's winning?" My sister jumped up and said, in a very syrupy voice, "It doesn't matter who wins, what matters is having fun." I said the same thing to her: "Spoken as the mother of only one child." Ask ANY kid who's a sibling: they'll tell you that it does indeed matter who wins. :)

 

I remember when I had only one child and thought that what I did would determine what she did.

 

I have three kids, none of whom are biologically related. All kids are different, and I can assure you that "AP-style" is not the magic bullet.

 

Tara

 

 

AMEN! I think the dynamic totally changes whn you add even just one more to the mix.

 

My boys are great...ALONE. When they get together, they fight. Let ONE friend come into the picture and they fight over said friend. Who will sit with friend? Who does friend like better? OMG!

[phathui5]

So you're saying if the mother had spanked, her 3 year old son wouldn't have pulled the TV down? The only children that run into a busy street are ones that haven't been spanked? That's quite an assumption.

 

Janet

 

I'd have to agree. We don't spank and our kids know to walk within reach of me or hold hands near a street and I supervise my littles well enough not to have them hurt by big things like TVs or furniture.

 

You can train children to behave without hurting them.

 

If you have never spanked your child and your child is well behaved, then you are lucky

 

Nope. It's not luck. It's working with them, being consistant, responding to where they are developmentally, reading about discipline, being open to changing methods when needed.

Edited July 3, 2009 by phathui5

[HRAAB]

Your first question assumes that there is something wrong with spanky. I honestly feel that it is good for them. I am glad that I was spanked. I learned from it. I learned about discipline, physical pain, emotions, and all kinds of other things. The first (and only) time I was yanked out of my car and shoved around by a couple of policeman, it wasn't a complete shock. I understood that sometimes life is physical. I was able to deal with it by staying calm and without fighting back. Had I never been physically punished, perhaps I would not have handled it so well.

 

Spanking is a good thing. Spanking has important lessons. I do not say that you have to spank your child to be a good parent, but I believe that it is good for your child.

 

BTW: The cops profiled me as a drug dealer. Incorrectly of course.

 

I don't like spanking, and I do believe there are better ways. I believe discipline is a good thing, a necessary thing, an act of love on the part of the parents, but I do not believe spanking is the only or best way to train and discipline.

 

I'm glad to hear the cops were wrong.

 

Janet

[phathui5]

I would venture to classify hitting as intentionally causing pain for no good reason.

 

The dictionary classifies it as:

 

 

1. To come into contact with forcefully; strike: The car hit the guardrail.

2. To reach with or as if with a blow: The bullet hit the police officer in the shoulder.

3. To cause to come into contact: She hit her hand against the wall.

4. To deal a blow to.

 

[Ginevra]

Why would I hold it against them for making me what I am? I am comfortable with who I am but know that without the strong hand of my parents I would have been someone else and somebody who I would not want to be.

 

My Father ensured that I worked at school, he ensured that I did not lie, cheat or behave in what he (and I) deemed a dishonorable manner. Had it not been for him, his love, his guidance and yes the occasional application of the belt I would have been a lesser man.

 

I needed the odd spanking, I am adult enough to know this, I am also strong enough not to "want to vomit" at something as inconsequential as corporal punishment, when deserved.

 

It is not silly to "go through the 'so-and-so was spanked and he's great'/'so-and-so was never spanked and she's awful." If I had not been spanked I would have been that bad kid we talk about. I was willful, aggressive and intelligent. I understood the love of my parents and I did know what was right, but there was always that little devil sitting on my shoulder and sometimes it was the realization (not fear) of the consequences of a potential action to my posterior that was the final decision maker.

 

 

I don't see how you think you can *know* what you would be and how you would be if you were raised differently. And, I hate to point this out, but as you've grown into an adult who thinks it's a good and necessary act for a grown man to pelt a small child with a belt, then you are not so wonderful a person as you imagine. It is heinous to strike a child with a belt!

 

You say it was "the realization, not fear" of being struck that changed your mind. If it wasn't fear, then why would you choose not to? If you didn't fear being whipped at your own father's hands, what good would the "realization" do? I know, you just didn't have time to bother with the inconvenience of being whipped, right? I do not believe in motivating any other person's actions by fear of being injured. I want my children to choose good action out of love. That is why I do many things I do not enjoy.

 

And it is silly to point to anecdotes, because I know children from all walks treated all kinds of ways with all kinds of different results. I know children who have been spanked who are horrible brats and I know children who have never been spanked who are horrible brats. Both types of parents are doing many things wrong! It's not just who spanks and who doesn't!

[mom2koh]

Haven't read all replies. But, yes we do spank. Our dd is 5 and our ds is 2. Ds dosen't get spankings as he's just learning the rules. Once he shows signs that he can distinguish our rules then it will become a viable form of punishment. We only spank for serious infractions (like running into the road, or outright, blatant disobedience). We use other forms of punishment for mild infractions.

 

Do I like to spank? NO. I don't enjoy it. My heart crumbles into tiny pieces when we have to.

 

Has dd learned from her spankings (probably a total of 3 in her lifetime). Yes!

 

And for the record myself and dh were spanked as kids. yet, we both love our parents more than imaginable.

Edited July 3, 2009 by mom2koh

[mom2tbcnm]

I didn't read to the end, but thought I;d add my .02

We do spank, but we don't hit. There is a big difference. If you just get torked and whack your kid for being naughty, I consider that hitting. If the kid is naughty and you take him into the bathroom alone and calmly talk to them about the offense, explain that you love them and that's why you discipline them, then spank them (we use the small dowel, too) I consider that spanking, and a form of instructing.

Now, that is our opinion, and not shared by all. I totally respect how others choose to discipline their kids as long as they are doing something.

 

Katty

[Nakia]

Spoken as the mother of only one child. :)

 

 

Girl, I think you hit the nail on the head with that!! My oldest was challenging as a very strong willed child, but seldom required disciplines. Boy, I thought I was such a great parent. Then the second one came...

[Melissa in CA]

And, I hate to point this out, but as you've grown into an adult who thinks it's a good and necessary act for a grown man to pelt a small child with a belt, then you are not so wonderful a person as you imagine.

 

Wow, I think this was totally uncalled for. :confused:

[melissel]

Girl, I think you hit the nail on the head with that!! My oldest was challenging as a very strong willed child, but seldom required disciplines. Boy, I thought I was such a great parent. Then the second one came...

 

My first was a dream. She was and is still very eager to please. Imagine my surprise when my second came along, with a personality a full 180 degrees from her sister's. Add in the fact that I was an only child and had no clue how sibling dynamics work...whew. It was a whole new world.

[Ginevra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quill

And, I hate to point this out, but as you've grown into an adult who thinks it's a good and necessary act for a grown man to pelt a small child with a belt, then you are not so wonderful a person as you imagine.

 

Wow, I think this was totally uncalled for. :confused:

 

Why? Banging a kid with a belt is wrong! Would it be fine for a man to beat his wife with a belt? Are you okay with that? Why would it be fine if it's a child? A good person does not justify beating other people with a belt, particularly a child. I *love* it when someone says, "I was beaten and I turned out fine, so it's fine to beat someone with a belt." Huh? If you think it's fine to beat someone with a belt, I submit you didn't turn out fine!

[BalanceSeeker]

 

Now, this doesn't mean to beat your children with a rod, but it doesn't mean the swack of an open hand, either. THAT is hitting to me. I would never use my hand on my child. However, I would use the rod of correction in a controlled, training manner.

 

I've only read up to this point, so this may have already been addressed. This thread it LONG!

 

I hate spanking. I didn't have to use it with my first two dd's because they responded to love and logic. My 3rd has not. By the age of 4 1/2, we realized she was really going down the wrong road as a result of our non-spanking methods that always worked. We started spanking on rare occasions when things were really bad with her behavior, especially when we saw that her behavior would eventually cause harm to herself.

 

We have seen positive changes in this willful, oh-so-willful child.

 

BUT, I struggle everyday with the decision to incorporate spanking even though we use it as a last resort. I go to the Bible and read about the rod and I don't know if it was meant in this way. I think of the rod as a word picture meant for us to visualize a shepard guiding his sheep to stay on course, not to spank them with it. Yet, I know it is often interpreted as something used to spank with.

 

Thoughts?

[SonshineLearner]

Why? Banging a kid with a belt is wrong! Would it be fine for a man to beat his wife with a belt? Are you okay with that? Why would it be fine if it's a child? A good person does not justify beating other people with a belt, particularly a child. I *love* it when someone says, "I was beaten and I turned out fine, so it's fine to beat someone with a belt." Huh? If you think it's fine to beat someone with a belt, I submit you didn't turn out fine!

 

I have to say that whether I bang my children with a belt (which I don't use a belt) or not, my children are in a category by themselves. I punish them, I disciple them, I cheer with them...I hear that I need to play more games with them:-) and they are THE only people that it would be easy to die for, if I had to make that choice. You see...that husband, beating his wife so that she looks like she was put through something at a meat factory...isn't being loved by her husband. He wouldn't lay his life down for her, and quite honestly, adults are not the same. It's not my husband's responsibility to punish me.

And, children don't get pummeled and then have the parents be able to say they got a couple of swats. I'm not saying I take a hammer to my kids. I have never left more than a slight red mark. Never a bruise. Can you not understand that there may be a difference? Maybe not....course...I can't help that.

 

Carrie

[moki4]

Spanking incites fear, and terror.

Children do not need to be spanked for disobedience (can't stand that word). There is always another way.

Also, spanking is usually commited in the heat-of-the-moment and involves an out of control child and out of control adult. Someone needs to be in control. That person needs to be the parent!

[Amy loves Bud]

I've bolded my response.

 

So you think God actually crucified his only son - watched him bleed and die on the cross, heard his cries "forgive them Father, for they know not what they do" - and that was it. That means we just have a freebie now to sin all we want as long as Jesus did the dying? I absolutely, 100% disagree with you.

By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Romans 6

 

I believe that all sins will be punished by God. If I go out and have an affair, I may divorce my husband, marry the other man, but is my marriage going to be happy? Going to be easy? Am I going to live without guilt? Can I really walk into the house of God with my head held high? No! I can't. I can't because God, my Father, loves me and wants me to do what is right. He is not going to disown me or send me to Hell for this sin (because my faith in Jesus Christ saved me from this), but he is going to lay burden on my heart. Because I love Him and want to please Him, my hell will be a silent hell that I live inside myself each day. God would forgive me, but I wouldn't. And that is where I believe we are punished for our sins. You seem to separate God and us - as if my guilt and feelings could exist without Him. He made me - every part of me. Just as He can ease the grief of a widow and give her peace that passes all understanding, He can allow me to suffer grief for my wrongs.

 

Again, I would say that this is suffering the worldly consequences of your actions (which I understand are hypothetical ;) ), not God's active punishment. You are forgiven for the cheating, but the results of the cheating are still there. I'm not sure I am on board with what you are saying about not being separate from God. Yes, God created us, then we separated ourselves from him through sin. Where do sinful urges, like extramarital attractions, come from? And how is it that "God would forgive me but I wouldn't" if you are not separate? I think "allow" (your word) is key here.

 

As parents, I think that we all strive to make sure our children feel sorrow for their wrongs (so they will correct them and learn from them). God is no different when he punishes us. And like I said before, sometimes I would really rather God give me a whack on the bottom than to punish me from the inside out.

 

Again, discipline vs. punishment. Two different animals, imo.

 

FYI - the example above is just an example. No, I am not cheating on my dh or running off to marry someone else. LOL

 

Left this last bit here, just to be safe! LOL!

 

I'm not a theologian, and there is so much written about grace, etc. by folks that are that I am not even aware of much less an expert on. And I think we've strayed far from the topic of spanking, too. I personally have a hard time reconciling God's love and the grace he has extended to me with a punitive approach to parenting. I have dear friends IRL who believe differently than I do and I love them and we agree to disagree. I think I'll do that here too. :)

[Jorsay]

Why? Banging a kid with a belt is wrong! Would it be fine for a man to beat his wife with a belt? Are you okay with that? Why would it be fine if it's a child? A good person does not justify beating other people with a belt, particularly a child. I *love* it when someone says, "I was beaten and I turned out fine, so it's fine to beat someone with a belt." Huh? If you think it's fine to beat someone with a belt, I submit you didn't turn out fine!

 

In order to make your point, it seems necessary for you to change the words of the other person. Such a method seems intellectually dishonest to me. No one suggests "Banging, pelting, hitting, or beating" with a belt. I believe that all advocators said "spanking". Your words imply intentional and repeated brutality as opposed to a method of discipline. Do you believe that is the intent of these parents or don't you believe that intent is important?

 

By the way, I asked my wife and she said she wouldn't mind me giving her a good spanking once in a while ;), but if I hit her she would call the police. Apparently words do have meaning to some. (If this comment offends anyone, I will remove it immediately.)

[Ginevra]

I have to say that whether I bang my children with a belt (which I don't use a belt) or not, my children are in a category by themselves.

 

The person I was responding to endorsed using a belt and being "sure it leaves a mark".

 

I don't buy children in a category by themselves because they are still human beings. (I wouldn't hit my dog or cat with a belt, either, but anyway...) Do you know that for a long time, it was considered a matter of personal discretion if a man felt his wife required beatings? Such men would say that because the Bible gives them headship over the wife, and because they also thought women were the "weaker" gender, then it was perfectly within his rights to discipline her as he saw fit. If you think it may sometimes be necessary, you will be able to find a situation where it is necessary. If it is categorically wrong, you won't ever find a situation where it is necessary. SWIM?

 

And, children don't get pummeled and then have the parents be able to say they got a couple of swats. I'm not saying I take a hammer to my kids. I have never left more than a slight red mark. Never a bruise. Can you not understand that there may be a difference?

 

Again, note that I was responding to a person defending hitting with a belt and being sure it leaves a mark. I am no saint in the spanking dept. One of my children was spanked many times (open hand swat on the bum). But I would never call that my proud moment or praise my parents for setting up this model for me. I realize my parents did the best they could, but they were wrong to depend on spanking. It never did any good and I believe it did much harm. I and my 3 sisters were all in at least one abusive relationship. It's not hard for me to see how we would make the leap that it is okay for someone who supposedly loves you to also harm you.

[Jorsay]

Spanking incites fear, and terror.

 

 

That's why it works.

[Ginevra]

In order to make your point, it seems necessary for you to change the words of the other person. Such a method seems intellectually dishonest to me. No one suggests "Banging, pelting, hitting, or beating" with a belt. I believe that all advocators said "spanking". Your words imply intentional and repeated brutality as opposed to a method of discipline. Do you believe that is the intent of these parents or don't you believe that intent is important?

 

The other person advocated a belt and being sure it leaves a mark. I have a notion they didn't mean they were tapped lightly with a belt. Being hit with a belt is pelting, banging and beating. Would you let me hit you with a belt? Or would you charge me with assault? To call hitting someone with a belt a "method of discipline" is like calling starving a person "dietary control".

[Blessedfamily]

Girl, I think you hit the nail on the head with that!! My oldest was challenging as a very strong willed child, but seldom required disciplines. Boy, I thought I was such a great parent. Then the second one came...

 

Amen again. One was a challenge, but not too bad... When the second one came........????????

[Renee in NC]

The other person advocated a belt and being sure it leaves a mark. I have a notion they didn't mean they were tapped lightly with a belt. Being hit with a belt is pelting, banging and beating. Would you let me hit you with a belt? Or would you charge me with assault? To call hitting someone with a belt a "method of discipline" is like calling starving a person "dietary control".

 

As a child, I was beaten with a belt on a regular basis. Beaten - leaving welts, bruises, and cuts. For everything, from lying (usually to avoid being beaten) to simply saying the wrong thing. I lived in terror of the next "whipping." I even ran away multiple times to avoid whippings (and put myself in some dangerous sitautionsand got worse whippings when I got home.) I was so glad when my dad divorced her - I CHEERED even though she had been my "mother" for 7 years.

 

I do spank my children when the situation warrants it, but rarely (and not even all my dc get spanked.) I would never, never, ever, ever use a belt and I would never, never, ever, ever spank a child with the intent to "leave a mark."

[Jorsay]

The other person advocated a belt and being sure it leaves a mark. I have a notion they didn't mean they were tapped lightly with a belt. Being hit with a belt is pelting, banging and beating. Would you let me hit you with a belt? Or would you charge me with assault? To call hitting someone with a belt a "method of discipline" is like calling starving a person "dietary control".

 

We disagree. If my Mom hadn't used a belt on me, I would have laughed at her when she tried to spank me. It certainly would have hurt her hand more than my bottom. By the way, I did not charge her with assualt.

 

Actually, I am in favor of whipping with a cane or belt when certain laws are broken. If I were running away with your lawn chairs and you whipped me with a belt, I wouldn't be particularly upset about it. I certainly wouldn't charge you with assualt.

[HeatherLynn]

We certainly don't spank for every offense, or as our primary (or even secondary) discipline measure -- but yes, it is one tool that I use, among others. One that I have occasionally found valuable. (Especially, as someone pointed out, for prolonged, outright defiance.) I don't think you should assume that because many of us admit to spanking, that we go around whacking our children willy-nilly for every infraction! We use discussion (and the all-important Mommy Eyes!), natural consequences, time-outs, removal of privileges, etc, with far more frequency.

 

Exactly. And yeah, I am from the South. Have you ever heard of a Southern Gentleman or Southern Belle? Have you heard about what great manners & hospitality us Southerner's have? Is it just easier to classify yourself as intellectually and morally superior? Somehow one must believe that the South lags behind the rest of the nation in advancement. If so be the case, THANK GOD I AM FROM THE SOUTH!

 

BTW, my southern born and raised sister and law does not spank. I guess some northerner got a hold of her and changed her somehow. :glare:

[PineFarmMom]

It is so tiresome to hear people say or imply that there's no evidence for spanking in the Bible.

 

 

 

I agree!! My eyes have rolled so many times while perusing this thread. It is so very clear, Biblically. I think I've been sucked into too many threads this week, so I'll just leave it be, realizing there's no use arguing some of the abusive comments I've seen towards those who choose to spank.

[Jorsay]

As a child, I was beaten with a belt on a regular basis. Beaten - leaving welts, bruises, and cuts. For everything, from lying (usually to avoid being beaten) to simply saying the wrong thing. I lived in terror of the next "whipping." I even ran away multiple times to avoid whippings (and put myself in some dangerous sitautionsand got worse whippings when I got home.) I was so glad when my dad divorced her - I CHEERED even though she had been my "mother" for 7 years.

 

I do spank my children when the situation warrants it, but rarely (and not even all my dc get spanked.) I would never, never, ever, ever use a belt and I would never, never, ever, ever spank a child with the intent to "leave a mark."

 

OK, OK, I agree, spanking with the intent to leave a mark is extreme and I am not in favor of it.

[Ginevra]

We disagree. If my Mom hadn't used a belt on me, I would have laughed at her when she tried to spank me. It certainly would have hurt her hand more than my bottom. By the way, I did not charge her with assualt.

 

Actually, I am in favor of whipping with a cane or belt when certain laws are broken. If I were running away with your lawn chairs and you whipped me with a belt, I wouldn't be particularly upset about it. I certainly wouldn't charge you with assualt.

 

Well you are right about that, then. We do disagree. Luckily, I wouldn't whip you with a belt if you ran away with my lawn chairs, but there's a good chance my dog might be offended by your trespassing. Nothing like a strong defense. :D

 

This will have to be my last attention to this thread. It's gotten to an unhealthy level for me.

[Amy loves Bud]

Nevermind. I'll not be tiresome nor get sucked in further.

[Peela]

Lol, did the OP actually think this was not going to spark off a lot of controversy? Bit like vaccinations. Some issues are just like that.

My POV is that I have seen so many women over the years with small children who wouldn't get in the car, woulndt do what they are asked, were basically throwing a tantrum for whatever reason, who try to TALK to the child as if the child can and should REASON when they are highly emotional. I feel it is far more painful on the child to be talked to, guilt tripped for 15 minutes, by a stressed out mothers who are trying to be politically correct, especially in public...than a quick swat on the butt. It is purely painful to watch mothers struggle with doing what they think is the right thing, when it is absolutely ineffectual.

And, yes, its doesn't work with all kids and it doesnt work all the time, but I am not going to say I would never spank, and I am not going to say I believe in spanking. Sometimes I truly think its the kindest thing to do- to both mother AND child- to snap a kid back to the present, in to their bodies, in the given circumstance. But, if you have another way that actually works with your particular child, for goodness sakes, use it. A lot of spanking is done out of frustration and ignorance of better ways. And there can be better ways. But I have seen so much ineffectual parenting (and truthfully, often by freinds who are single mothers), I have often wanted to walk up and swat the kid myself and tell it to behave and get it over with, instead of listen to the mother go on and on and on trying to guilt or bribe the child into submission.

I dont think it needs to be such a polarized issue, and we could grow beyond spanking- but first parents need to be willing to be the parent, and that seems to be a dying thing. They so badly want the kid to love them they do the kid a disservice.

[Blessedfamily]

Lol, did the OP actually think this was not going to spark off a lot of controversy? Bit like vaccinations.

...

 

You used the "v" word. :glare: :glare:

[Amy loves Bud]

I have often wanted to walk up and swat the kid myself and tell it to behave and get it over with.

 

LOL, I was talking to Bud about it and he said, "We'll never spank our kids, but I wish others would spank theirs more often."

 

Kidding, he was kidding!

[Joanne]

Actually, there are whole books written, video series produced, websites designed and classes given on both sides of scripture and spanking.

 

I never understood the Biblical defense of spanking. More accurately, I don't get and am very concerned about the the culture, rhetoric and thinking that's built up around it. The truth, as I see it, is that you can't assert the Bible says "spank" AND take those verses literally. They say absolutely nothing resembling our modern day "spank". They talk about severe beating an older (and male) child.

 

I believe in the authority of parents and the rod (figurative but real) of discipline. The obscure and often prooftexted "spanking" verses say nothing about hands, diapers, spoons, paint stir sticks, plumbing supplies, ages, praying before and after, "for direct disobedience", "lying"...

 

The common use of spanking in conservative Christian culture

endorses a very aggressive minded understanding of age expected behavior. Many Christian spanking advocates I am familiar with advocate spanking too often, ritualistically, and in places where other discipline is easily used.

 

Conservative Christian culture has built up a litany of ritual suurounding "spanking". They've added a tremendous amount of "stuff" that is not in the Bible.

 

The truth is that focusing on spanking - or focusoing on NOT spanking misses the heart of parenting. The "let's not talk about spanking" page on my site adds to what I've written here.

[Karenciavo]

Over the past two days I read two threads that involved spanking their children because they did not do as asked (aka misbehaved).

 

I must admit I am kinda in shock. I always thought spanking was a thing of the past. I live in the North and maybe we do things different around here. I don't know of anyone who admits to spanking their kids (what they do in private I don't know).

 

 

I live in the north and I spank. You obviously just don't know the right people. :lol: :hat:

[LibraryLover]

I broke my own rule...that I often forget to follow...dammit: Don't rspond to spanking threads. I think most are planned by people with fetishes. It's not like this is a private board. (Not nec the OPs, but by people trying to get off on sites that won't crash their computer).

 

If I were a mod, I'd delete them and then remind everyone why.

 

And I do not trust anyone using the words whipping or canning etc. That is trollish, imo.

[SonshineLearner]

And I do not trust anyone using the words whipping or canning etc. That is trollish, imo.

 

Sorry you don't like the word "canning" but I thought I'd have fun with this. If they literally "canned" the really bad guys, they wouldn't have to cane them. And, I said that mostly because of a news show I had just watched where a convicted s*x m*lester....had been out and then did it again and killed her. It was a young girl by the way. That's what I meant....And that's why I was feeling like that...

 

Carrie

[LibraryLover]

Sorry you don't like the word "canning" but I thought I'd have fun with this. If they literally "canned" the really bad guys, they wouldn't have to cane them. And, I said that mostly because of a news show I had just watched where a convicted s*x m*lester....had been out and then did it again and killed her. It was a young girl by the way. That's what I meant....And that's why I was feeling like that...

 

Carrie[/quot

 

It wasn't you you set off my radar.

 

I do wonder where people get humiliation or spanking fetishes, however. Are they people who were spanked as children or who were not spanked as children. An even mix?

[Joanne]

I broke my own rule...that I often forget to follow...dammit: Don't rspond to spanking threads. I think most are planned by people with fetishes. It's not like this is a private board. (Not nec the OPs, but by people trying to get off on sites that won't crash their computer).

 

If I were a mod, I'd delete them and then remind everyone why.

 

And I do not trust anyone using the words whipping or canning etc. That is trollish, imo.

 

I own a secular list for positive discipline. All new members are on moderated staus for the very real issue you posted about.

[GraceinMD]

No need to feel upset or sorry for our children-- they know the reasons for the discipline, and that they are well-loved. In fact, my children know this Bible verse and take it to heart:

Prov. 13:24-- "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him." In other words, they know that we spank *because* we love them, and care about the direction they go.

 

This reminded me of a scene I always enjoy from Dorothy Sayers / Peter Wimsey - illustrating punishment, forgiveness, AND restoration, after Bredon had taken peaches from a neighbor's tree:

 

"[Harriet] looked up, to see chastiser and chastised emerging from the house, hand in hand. 'They seem to be quite good friends. Bredon was rather uplifted when he was promoted to a cane; he thinks it dignified and grown-up....Well, ruffian, how many did you get?'

'Three,' said Master Bredon confidentially. 'Awful hard ones. One for being naughty, an' one for being young ass enough to be caught, and one for making a 'fernal nuisance of myself on a hot day.'

'Oh, dear,' said Miss Quirk, appalled by the immorality of all this. 'And are you sorry for having taken poor Mr. Puffett's peaches, so that he can't get a prize at the Show?'

Bredon looked at her in astonishment. 'We've done all that,' he said, with a touch of indignation.

His father thought it well to intervene. 'It's a rule in this household,' he announced, 'that once we've been whacked, nothing more can be said. The topic is withdrawn from circulation.'"

-Dorothy Sayers, Talboys (in Lord Peter)

 

:001_smile:

[pqr]

I don't see how you think you can *know* what you would be and how you would be if you were raised differently. And, I hate to point this out, but as you've grown into an adult who thinks it's a good and necessary act for a grown man to pelt a small child with a belt, then you are not so wonderful a person as you imagine. It is heinous to strike a child with a belt!

 

You say it was "the realization, not fear" of being struck that changed your mind. If it wasn't fear, then why would you choose not to? If you didn't fear being whipped at your own father's hands, what good would the "realization" do? I know, you just didn't have time to bother with the inconvenience of being whipped, right? I do not believe in motivating any other person's actions by fear of being injured. I want my children to choose good action out of love. That is why I do many things I do not enjoy.

 

And it is silly to point to anecdotes, because I know children from all walks treated all kinds of ways with all kinds of different results. I know children who have been spanked who are horrible brats and I know children who have never been spanked who are horrible brats. Both types of parents are doing many things wrong! It's not just who spanks and who doesn't!

 

Wow,

 

You are a master at reading something that simply is not there.

 

Let’s start with the 1st paragraph. You state "but as you've grown into an adult who thinks it's a good and necessary act for a grown man to pelt a small child with a belt, then you are not so wonderful a person as you imagine". Prey tell where did I claim to be a wonderful person? I said that I am comfortable with who I am not that I am a wonderful person.

 

This brings to mind a scene from the Last Emperor with Fleming, PuYi's Scottish tutor

 

Fleming- And a gentleman should always

means what he says

PuYi -Ah yes! "a gentleman"

Are you a gentleman?

Fleming-I would like to be a gentleman,

Your Majesty I try to be

 

I feel the same and aspire to be a gentleman not a "wonderful person"

 

You use the pejorative statement “pelt a small child with a belt.†One does not pelt with a belt. Strike…spank…yes. Pelt…no. Where did I say small child? Where did I give my age when the belt was used? Should we say that you are “reading something that simply is not there�

 

You state "You say it was "the realization, not fear" of being struck that changed your mind. If it wasn't fear, then why would you choose not to? If you didn't fear being whipped at your own father's hands, what good would the "realization" do?" and yet you miss the point. I never did, and do not, fear my father, I tried to be manly in accepting punishment but spanking hurt, it was meant to. I was not afraid of a spanking, it was simply a painful consequence to a behavior that added further incentive to follow the rules. Your further use of the pejorative term “whipped†was not used by me. I you view some Dickensian scene then once again, you are a master at “reading something that simply is not thereâ€.

 

The debate followed with posters arguing about the comment that "My father believes in the belt and you can be sure it left a mark". Again those posters completely miss the point. When people play football it leaves bruises, following your logic the purpose of football is to bruise. The purpose of football is enjoyment and sport and bruises are a natural consequence. The purpose of spanking is to discipline and guide and a mark is a frequent and natural consequence. I am not speaking about bloody welts, torn skin, or any other thing that your seemingly fertile imagination may conjure. I am speaking of the red stripe that is a natural consequence, nothing more.

 

In my opinion…Spanking is simply a tool in the parent’s arsenal. It is not, nor should it be the primary one. It should not be the first choice and should be administered when calm and when the child understands why it is being administered. To fail to use an available tool, when its use is called for, beggars belief especially when we are talking about raising our children. Before you leap to further conclusions I would have you note that I never stated that I use a belt, simply that my Father did and it was necessary given my behavior.

 

Nevertheless I will also state this, I respect the opinions of those who harbor a moral aversion to spanking. I firmly believe that they are wrong, but I respect it. It is those parents who do not harbor such a belief and who fail to spank because of public perceptions or laziness that I accuse of moral cowardice.

 

I need to learn to cease such posts just before a business trip. Anyway I will be happy to continue this upon my return, but I would ask that you debate what I stated not what you wish I had said.

[gingersmom]

Lol, did the OP actually think this was not going to spark off a lot of controversy?

And there can be better ways. But I have seen so much ineffectual parenting (and truthfully, often by freinds who are single mothers),

 

And this is not controversial? Since when is attacking single mothers fair game?

[Elizabeth Conley]

And this is not controversial? Since when is attacking single mothers fair game?

 

The gloves came off about page 10.

 

Seriously ladies. The tone of this thread got nasty and shrill somewhere between page 6 and 10.

I saw a few polemic posts full of sarcasm, personal attacks and no substance.

 

I called the author on one of her snide remarks, just to see if she understood that her remarks were personal attacks, rather than contributions to reasoned discussion. She either didn't understand the qualitative difference between the two, or didn't care.

 

After page 10, things got ridiculous. More and more people started posting quarrelsome drivel.

 

Now it doesn't really matter whether you're trolled by an ideologue or a die hard polemicist. Trolled is trolled. I suggest that those of you who don't live to argue, and do know the difference between reasoned discussion and a degrading brawl, simply leave this thread alone.

 

There's nothing productive going on here. Don't wait for the thread to be closed down. Just boycott it.

[amy g.]

I think it is very unfair and unloving to allow a child to misbehave without stopping it. I can not stand to be around undisciplined children. I just don't see where spanking or letting the child misbehave are the only options.

 

Someone posted an example of a child not getting into the car, and the mother reasoning without effect.

 

When Miss Bossy acts that way, I say, "I'm sorry. We are leaving now, and you have to be in the car seat." Then I pick her up, put her in and hold her down while I strap her in. Since she does not get away with misbehaving, her attempts are getting less and less frequent.

 

We had some 5 year olds visit the farm. We were all happy to see them go. Their mom told them not to chase the rooster, but didn't follow through. I offered to get her a hen or a chick to hold. The mom said,"Don't bother." so the child chased the rooster the whole time while the mother told her repeatedly to stop, but did nothing.

 

I would have grabbed her hand and said, "It's not safe to chase the rooster, so you'll need to hold my hand until you are ready to be safe."

 

They wanted to learn to milk, but would not listen for the 3 minutes it took for me to explain the process. The mom said, "You need to listen", but she did not go get them, put a hand on their shoulders and say "Stay here with me so you know what to do." She never followed through on anything. Needless to say, milking was "too hard" and they "couldn't do it".

 

 

It is sad to think about the future of kids raised that way. Who is ever going to want to be around them? At what can they be successful?

 

I just don't understand why people who do choose to spank their children assume that all parents who do not are like the 5 year olds' mom. There are plenty of ways to train kids, and spanking is not the only option for making them mind.

[Karenciavo]

I think it is very unfair and unloving to allow a child to misbehave without stopping it. I can not stand to be around undisciplined children. I just don't see where spanking or letting the child misbehave are the only options.

 

They're not, even for spankers.

[Melissa in CA]

I suggest that those of you who don't live to argue, and do know the difference between reasoned discussion and a degrading brawl, simply leave this thread alone.

 

There's nothing productive going on here. Don't wait for the thread to be closed down. Just boycott it.

 

:iagree: It's gotten a bit ridiculous to me. Those of us who do spank have no problem with those who do not. No biggie. As long as you are disciplining your child, great! Do what works for you and your children! But, boy, apparently we spanker's are barbarians who just love to inflict pain on very small helpless innocent children. Give me a break. :tongue_smilie:

 

It's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Just because some people do not spank appropriately and abuse instead of correct, does not mean we should do away with an effective discipline tool altogether. :001_huh: Abusers will abuse whether it's legal or not. If not by spanking excessively or inappropriately, then by some other form of abuse that is JUST as destructive to a child.

 

And personally, I would say that those of you who spank because you are angry, need to work on your anger problem. One rule of thumb...never, ever spank when you are angry or in a rage. Frankly, if you take care of whatever the problem is with the child promptly, you will not have time to get overly angry, KWIM? And if you cannot keep from getting angry to the point of wanting to lash out at your child...then by all means, do. not. spank. I've been around angry out-of-control spankers and it is NOT healthy. I've also been around verbal abusers who do not spank, and that is equally horribly NOT healthy. If you find yourself in a tirade yelling at your child telling him he is a no good F'n idiot who can't do anything right...get some help. Quick.

 

Other forms of abuse I have seen are locking a child in a closet for long periods of time with no food/water, etc. Locking a child in a bathroom all night until they write a letter saying that their mother & grandmother are liars, when the child knows they are not (manipulative mental abuse). There are soooo many disciplinary "tools" that are far more destructive to a child than a good solid swat on the butt. And yes, the swat HAS TO HURT, just as any disciplinary measure has to hurt the child in some respect (taking away loved privileges, etc.). Some kids could care less what you take away and this approach does not work, whereas spanking does. Some are just the opposite. And some kids, like myself growing up, never needed disciplining. I was just naturally complacent and easy going. My brother on the other hand...whoa! He was terrible. I do recall one time as a teen when I was slapped in the mouth by my mother for back talking her. I totally deserved it too, let me tell ya.

 

So, all that to say, you need to take into account that different types of children need different types of discipline. And spanking does not equal barbaric abuse. That's just faulty logic in my opinion.

 

OK, I said more than I intended. I will bow out of this conversation for my own peace and sanity. I'm shocked to see ANOTHER spanking thread was started. Goodness, I can't imagine that one will stay any calmer....:confused:

[Holly IN]

I haven't read all the replies, but yes we spank. Not our first go-to for an offense, but for outright disobedience, defiance, etc.

 

My dh and I were both spanked. We haven't needed therapy for it yet.

 

Ditto!! The older they get the less spankings they get. It is more logical type of punishment as they age each year.

 

We spank for outright disobedience, defiance and so on. Not for the 1st time offense unless it is something like taking my glasses off when they are a toddler then they get a smack on the hand. Or touching a hot stove, smack on the hand. so on.

 

Holly

[Garga]

I've killed a lot of threads in my day.

 

Here's hoping that by my commenting on this thread, it will DIE.

 

I hate this thread.

[FlockOfSillies]

Hi,

 

FYI, my comments weren't directed to you. They were in reply to the OP and *her* tone. When I made my list, I was trying to come up with a random list of things that get discussed here quite a bit. "College degree" is one of them -- people ask about that for all kinds of reasons (often because someone they know IRL brought it up).

 

As for searching, I'm sure there are people who have been here for a long time who either can't or don't use the search feature. I rely on it when I'm curriculum shopping so I don't post yet another thread on ________.

 

So, welcome. Glad to have you here.

[Hedgehogs4]

i'm glad this came up again...i was just thinking of posting it again. i have not been a "spanker" until recently. My dh and I decided to make first time obedience with a good attitude the rule in our house. We found ourselves to be constantly struggling to define where the boundaries lie and decide what consequences were appropriate for various offenses, without spanking. We sat the kids down and informed them that there would be no more yelling or raising voices--if I reach that point they are clearly in violation of disobeying. The kids like that part--BUT--they have to obey the first time without complaining. If they want an explanation they may have one after they have obeyed, and they may answer with a reasonalble request such as, "just a second mom, I'm just finishing washing my hands..." so we know that they're not dilly-dallying. The consequence for disobeying is 2-3 swats on the bottom (underwear permitted) with a 5-gallon paint stick. It stings...doesn't injure. We RARELY use it. We are not angry when we discipline and the kids clearly understand where they have gone wrong. It makes me horribly sad (and I have even cried with the kids when I spanked them) to do it, but that helps them understand even more--that because I love them I want to train them to obey me and dad, so they will be trained to obey God when they are mature.

 

Honestly, our house has been SO peaceful since enforcing these boundaries and rules. I am not crabby with the kids, and they aren't constantly pushing me, not that they were bad kids before--in fact they're really nice, well-behaved kids that people seem to enjoy having around. But at home, we had the normal stuff--attitudes, disobeying, dilly-dallying when doing chores or not coming right away when called...the kind of stuff that drives me crazy. In all sincerity, though, everyone seems happier.