What if you have at 5th or 6th grader that isn't very academic? Help!

[Tina in ME]

I don't know if I can even explain my questions so they make sense. I have a 10yr old dd who will be 11 in Sept. She "should" be going in to 6th grade but she just isn't there academically. She reads at probably a 4th grade level, Math probably 5th, grammar we finished GWG 3, spelling and writing ahh. History and science it's hard to tell. She really has no interest in school. Hates to read and only tolerates read alouds if they are fun, she hates historical fiction. She like science experiments and lap booking but that's about it. LOL She has been homeschooled from the start and has never really enjoyed any of it.

 

The hard thing is her older brother(16) and sister(14) love to read, love history, they use to love math and science but now they just do it because they have too. Both dh and I love to read so she is the only one that doesn't. I think part of it is because it is such a struggle. But she just doesn't apply herself.

 

I don't believe she has learning disabilites. I'm just not sure what the deal is. This girl is bright but just doesn't care about school. All my kiddos are dancers and that is what they all love to do. We just finished our recital and she danced in 8 different pieces and did an amazing job. Lots of comments from the audience and no one can believe she is only 10 and can dance like that. She is a performer as are her siblings.

 

But what do I do with her? Do I say she is in 5th grade again or let her move on to 6th grade and just keep plugging along on her level? She can't wait to be able to dance in our local pre-professional school which you have to be in 8th grade to do. If I hold her back it will take her longer to get there and make her hate school even more.

 

We have always used the literature approach but it just doesn't seem to be working for her. Should we try textbooks or would she hate it even more??

 

Everytime I come to the boards I hear about kids her age and they are so far ahead and it is discouraging. That is how my oldest two are so it's hard to figure out what to do.

 

Any thoughts or opinions? Or just encouragement LOL would be appreciated. Sorry this got so long.

 

Thanks,

Tina

Who would like to figure out what to do for next school year.

[harrypmgaga]

I believe you should tell her that if she does not begin to apply herself to her studies, that she will have to stay at the level she is currently in. Tell her that you love her and want her to succeed but if she does not apply herself she will have to face the music.

 

I don't believe in sugar-coating the truth (i.e. saying your in 6th grade but giving 4th grade work) as the child will find out eventually--even if you don't want her to.

 

Hope it all works out!

 

Adrian.

[Matryoshka]

If it makes you feel any better, here she'd only be going into 5th next year - the cut-offs for 6th here are 11 before Sept. 1st.

 

It's all so arbitrary. If not for her dancing, I'd say just hold her back the grade. But since homeschooling can be done at the level they are regardless of their "on paper" grade, maybe just plug ahead from where she's at.

 

Have you had her vision tested by a developmental optometrist? Kids can have perfect vision but still have issues with tracking, convergence, and all kinds of other things. Vision therapy can really help these things. I would definitely rule this out as a problem.

 

And I'm with you on the literature-based approach, but if she really hates to read, maybe some other kind of method would be worth a try...

[MerryAtHope]

Many gifted children have learning disabilities. In fact, that's a hallmark sign for some disabilities. The things you describe actually could be signs of a mild learning disability, and I think it's worth looking into. A couple I would look at:

 

Symptoms of Dyslexia

Stealth Dyslexia

Vision Processing

 

HTH, Merry :-)

[Tina in ME]

Honestly, I think even when she applies herself she struggles. I did say she doesn't apply herself and I think she needs to work harder on that. I think I exaggerated a little in frustration. But when she does try (and she did better this year) she still struggles. She has been working on reading since preK and is still struggling.

 

I think what is happening now is she has tried and tired and it still isn't working so she hates it. She does like math most of the time which is why she is doing better there then other areas. But she has struggled with reading and writing since that start. Last Sept I'd say she could read at about a 2nd grade level now probably a begining 4th grade level. She has made progress but it is so much harder for her then it was for her brother and sister. She can watch a dance once and remember almost all of it, but she can't remember phonics rules and multilplication facts....

 

Do you ever wonder if your child would be better off in school? Maybe they would do a better job of teaching her. It is so easy to get frustrated with them when they don't seem to get it....

 

Tina

[yslek]

If it makes you feel any better, here she'd only be going into 5th next year - the cut-offs for 6th here are 11 before Sept. 1st.

 

It's all so arbitrary. If not for her dancing, I'd say just hold her back the grade. But since homeschooling can be done at the level they are regardless of their "on paper" grade, maybe just plug ahead from where she's at.

 

 

:iagree: B is about the same age as your dd (will be 11 in Sept.) and will be considered a 5th grader then. I made the mistake of trying to push him a grade ahead at the beginning (because he read so far ahead of grade level) but he hit a plateau around 3rd grade. We simply told him the next year that he was in 3rd grade again, because that's what grade he would be in if we had put him in PS, and that we made a mistake and paid him a dis-service by trying to push him ahead.

 

Even though grade levels are somewhat arbitrary in a homeschool setting, it has allowed me to relax a bit and we're both less stressed. He still doesn't love school, but is able to do his work now. :)

[SonshineLearner]

I'd say, take her to see some curriculum and maybe she'll find out what she likes. I know the dancing thing. Our daughters are about the same age (my daughter turns 11 mid August) and she doesn't love school. I find that she tolerates, and even memorizes because she listens so much, to things like SOTW cds. I also know that she'll drudge through math worksheets, reading some science, biographies. It's more fun if they love it, and they can lapbook to their hearts content if the material is being covered. You don't have to love work, you have to do it with an attitude that doesn't punish anyone else.

I have told my daughter a couple of times, that dance comes after school. I've asked her, "Do YOU want to explain to your teacher why you aren't on time?" That's always a "NO" since she wouldn't want to disappoint her ballet instructor.

Maybe she's just a textbook/workbook kinda kid. You can't make anyone love to learn. You can only try to provide the opportunity.

Carrie:-)

 

(I'd say...keep her at the same grade, and do work that is her ability. Even if she was extremely bright, you wouldn't be putting her in a ballet school...3 years ahead of her aged peers. Ballet is a skill that is based on ability of dance...and not level of math:-)

[TracyR]

I'll have to follow this thread. My oldest is 11 and is the same way. Except for other then Grammar she is pretty much on target with her grade level with subjects. My oldest just isn't motivated, not motivated with her studies and not motivated with swimming( she likes to swim and she is VERY good at swimming just doesn't want to apply herself at practice time, she'd rather mess around.)

I too feel pretty frustrated with her.

I've used all types of different methods of teaching and it just doesn't matter what method or curriculum I use. She wants nothing to do with it. The bad part is her two other sisters are begining to pick up on this habit. We've had talks about how school work is their job and they must first do their work before playing. It just sinks in for a few days and then we are back to the same stuff by the end of the week.

Ahhhh. The joys of children.

 

I'll admit lately I've wondered if school would be the better place. But then I look at the kids that come out of our schools and I just deal with it because I love my children way to much to send them to our PS.

Edited June 11, 2009 by TracyR

[pamjk]

Tina, I can sympathize. It's very frustrating to have a "non-academic" child. 12yo DS was a late reader (fluent just before age 10), and has despised any and all schoolwork since he was 5yo, no matter how fun and creative I try to make it. He's just not interested. He is open to listening to audio books in the car and for the past two years will read by himself before bedtime.

 

He is now doing MUS Delta (4th grade), AAS 2 (but his spelling remains atrocious) and GWG 6 (the only grade level book he does). The only writing I require is half page narratives from history, copywork and dictation, and we're just beginning outlining. I try to keep it light because most of it is difficult for him and constant repetition is necessary. The CAT test put him about 1.5 years behind so not too bad given all his struggles.

 

We made the decision to NOT officially declare him "held back" a year as this would discourage him further and cause some social issues. It really doesn't matter for homeschoolers, IMO. He won't "graduate" until he's ready, academically and emotionally, to attend community college.

 

This has been very hard for me to understand because I am very left-brain, language-oriented. School was easy for me and I don't ever remember ever not knowing how to read fluently. Reading the WTM boards can make me very depressed, seeing what other 6th graders can do. One thing that has helped is reading about right brain learners, especially on this site:

 

http://applestars.homeschooljournal.net/an-introduction-to-the-creative-right-brained-learner/

 

Your daughter's creative bent as a dancer may fit this profile. Just a thought.

 

Pam K.

[gingersmom]

I say throw the whole thing about grades out the window and work on her happiness.

 

If she doesn't like a literature based curriculum (or its not working for her) then have her help pick out a different curriculum.

 

My son adores school and his sister does not. We officially finished 3rd grade last week and this morning he asked me to "do school".

 

I take my kids to the library to hang out and after awhile my daughter will start browsing books. We spend so much time there she has no choice but to start investigating different books.

 

My daughter is a figure skater so we are starting our school year out reading books about different famous figure skaters. And maybe that will lead into a unit study on the olympics and who knows where it will go from there.

 

Good luck!

[rafiki]

.

[SonshineLearner]

I would list your dd a 5th grader, which is what she would be here, but I always do that, even with my middle dc who is "ahead".

 

My daughter would really resent me for doing this, since she wouldn't stay with her friends that she's danced with for years.

 

Just because she's allowed to dance, doesn't mean you can't do an extra year at the end, if you need to add it.

 

Also, if you do some review this summer, you can use getting up to grade level as a motivation:-)

 

Carrie:-)

[TracyR]

Thank you thank you for sharing that link. I'm thinking I have 3 right brained learners in my home. This article describes them to a T!

I did notice my oldest needed a whole words approach first. We had tried phonics miserably in the beginning and it just didn't stick with her at all. It wasn't until I tried The Reading Lessons which uses both Phonics and whole word approach that reading finally begin to stick with her. At the age of 11 she is beginning to understand phonics.

My third daughter uses pictures to visualize. I know it took me forever to teach her colors. It wasn't until one day I told her , red like the fire , green like the grass, blue like the sky, yellow like the sun did she finally learn her colors? Why? because she visualized grass in her mind and the yellow sun.

After reading that link its beginning to make more sense to me know. Now I just need to retrain my left brain thinking.

[TracyR]

Well with dance I would just keep her where she is progressing. My 2nd daughter is doing 4th grade work but technically is a 3rd grader. So when we do activities I just keep her with her peers.

If your needed a grade due to turning it into the school district well that's alright. I would write that she is 5th grade. I know here in PA we are required to do standardized testing. I'd rather say my 2nd daughter is a 3rd grader and have her do 4th grade work then say she is a 4th grader because she isn't really, mature wise, a 4th grader. Plus my daughters, no matter how much I try with them, are NOT good test takers.

If she is with her 6th grade peers during dance , fine. they don't need to know what grade she is in to be able to dance.

[Testimony]

I just saw this thread. I wanted to tell you that I have a friend that had difficulty with her son learning also. He went to private school, never homeschooled. He had similar problems as your describing with your daughter. My friend started doing the school work around his sports because he was into sports. She had him kick a ball and spell as he kicked the ball against the wall. She had him add on a bicycle.

 

How about teaching her around her dancing? Could she make a dance up using the phonics rules or math facts? I personally am not a fan of drill my child on math facts. I think that they should learn the concepts. Once they learn the concepts the facts fall into place. I would not say that she has a disability. I would try a different approach to teaching her.

 

I would drop the labels of grades. Everybody is at different grade level in each subject. One person could be at grade level 2 for math, but grade 4 for reading and grade 3 for writing, but be in fourth grade. Go at her pace with the different subjects and don't worry about what grade she is in.

 

Blessings in your homeschooling journey.

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[Renee in NC]

Honestly, I think even when she applies herself she struggles. I did say she doesn't apply herself and I think she needs to work harder on that. I think I exaggerated a little in frustration. But when she does try (and she did better this year) she still struggles. She has been working on reading since preK and is still struggling.

 

I think what is happening now is she has tried and tired and it still isn't working so she hates it. She does like math most of the time which is why she is doing better there then other areas. But she has struggled with reading and writing since that start. Last Sept I'd say she could read at about a 2nd grade level now probably a begining 4th grade level. She has made progress but it is so much harder for her then it was for her brother and sister. She can watch a dance once and remember almost all of it, but she can't remember phonics rules and multilplication facts....

 

Do you ever wonder if your child would be better off in school? Maybe they would do a better job of teaching her. It is so easy to get frustrated with them when they don't seem to get it....

 

Tina

 

What specifically makes you think it is *not* a learning disability? I just want to share with you that your dd sounds exactly like my 11yo ds down to what level he is in the various subjects. I haven't had him tested officially (yet) but he is most likely dyslexic.

[swellmomma]

My son will be 11 in Sept as well. I have opted to have him repeat grade 5 next year. He simply isn't ready to move on in ability and this buys him time before hitting junior high and then high school level work before he is ready. He knows I have reregistered him as a 5th grader and why and is fine with it. I do know he has disabilities that are holding him back, but a lot of his issue is attitude towards his work(I have the same issue with dd).

 

Looking back I would have held off starting K until he was 6 rather than starting on his 5th b-day so he would only be going into grade 5 this year anyway if I did that. (His b-day is Sept 1).

 

I think holding her her back, getting her tested for LD and being honest about why you have decided to hold her back is the way to go.

 

My son is actually happy I am holding him back, when I explained to him that he needed time to have his skill level catch up to his grade level especially as he is getting older he understood that. It doesn't change what I am doing with him at home, we will keep working at his level and moving up a level as we complete it, but in my province he must be registered, so we opted to register as 5th again. Hopefully by the time he finishes 6th (giving him 2 years instead of the 1 he would get if I did not hold him back) he will be up to grade level and ready to start junior high at grade level.

[Rosie_0801]

How about teaching her around her dancing? Could she make a dance up using the phonics rules or math facts?

 

 

Mmm. Did you ever read Noel Streatfeild's books? One of her characters thought with her feet. She had to dance thoughts in order to cement them in her mind. Weird huh?

 

I've seen products about maths and music. She could be reading and writing about music, dance, dancers and the stories that inspired any of the aforementioned. She might like ASL as a language other than English. We had quite a few dancers in our Auslan course because a moving language really appealed to them. She can learn historic dances through the SCA (and probably other organisations) and learn to make the costumes appropriate to the time period. That's home ec and maths, not to mention research skills and even art appreciation.

 

Just thinking...

 

Rosie

[ElizabethB]

I would give her the WMIA as a diagnostic test:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html

 

If she scores more than 15% slower on the Phonetic portion or misses more phonetic words than holistic words, she could benefit from nonsense words and a lot of isolated phonics and spelling practice (work on just phonics and spelling in words in isolation, no stories or sentences.)

 

And if not, Webster's Speller and my phonics lessons may still be helpful, it can't hurt to give them a try, they are free!

 

After taking the MWIA, if she does score as explained above, I can share more detailed advice about how to help.

[Amber in AUS]

I have skimmed through the thread and just thought i would throw my .02c out there.

 

I would be having her eyes checked. My DD is long sighted and this was picked up at 3yo screening, we had no idea and her case is severe. My friends son was similar to what you describe and she just recently had it eyes checked out of desperation and what do you know, short sighted.

 

Kids don't know that they can't see because they think you see like them. Please have her eyes checked if for nothing more than to cross it off the list.

[Peela]

I also wonder why you dismiss the learning "disorder'- she is having learning difficulties, is she not? My son struggles and struggles....he was 12 when I finally took him along to get tested and he was diagnosed a clear dyslexic! He can read well now but it took him longer than normal....and some of his other skills are still "behind". If a kid has any sort of LD, you can't punish them for not trying hard enough. It's just plain harder for them to do the same level of work- they may need to work harder, but they usually already are, or they have emotionally given up. My son is brilliant at some things, and others he finds a real struggle. The diagnosis helped him stop giving himself such a hard time, and it also stopped ME giving myself a hard time, being his teacher.

 

I don't understand why the grade is so important? My kids have been to school so they just consider that they are in the level of school that they would be if they were in school, whatever grade work they are actually doing in any subject. Many homeschooled kids work on different levels in different subjects. I would focus less on grades and just have her work at her own level, at whatever level she feels some success, and keep her moving forward from there.

[Orthodox6]

I may get swatted for this, but the original post included an aside that the child never has enjoyed homeschooling, from the beginning.

 

Homeschooling may not be a good "fit" for her. If she took one or more of her subjects through a co-op, she might discover that she likes school more. She may just be missing being around people from outside of her family.

 

My dd sees other people, but school takes on a "magic" element for her when even one other [non-family] child becomes involved. That is why I shall, beginning in the fall, be teaching dd and her best friend for subjects which can be taught one day per week.

 

Just another thought for the "soup pot" !

[amtmcm]

.... My friend started doing the school work around his sports because he was into sports. She had him kick a ball and spell as he kicked the ball against the wall. She had him add on a bicycle.

 

How about teaching her around her dancing? Could she make a dance up using the phonics rules or math facts? ....

 

 

:iagree:

 

My DD12 loves school, loves everything academic and she always has. She taught herself to read when she was 3 by following along with books on tape. My DD9 does not like school and struggled to learn to read when she was 7. She is social, she wants to run and play and have fun. I teach to her strengths and consider her learning style for everything = kinesthetic.

 

You know your DD loves dance so that puts you ahead of the game and gives you something concrete to work with. As a couple of other posts have suggested, teach around what she loves - history of dance, history of music (Beautiful Feet has a good guide), skip counting while dancing, etc...

 

Orthodox6 post that homeschooling may not be the best fit for her was also on my mind. My DD is social and thrives on learning with friends so we'll be trying Classical Conversations with her. It gives her 1 day per week of drill that she would hate getting from me plus she'll have the reward of social interaction. Or maybe a co-op or trade classes with friends? Maybe she would take instruction on a tough topic from another Mom and you could teach the other Mom's kids something you like?

 

I bought Sentence Family to teach grammar to my DD's strength of art and drawing. We're using Teaching Textbooks Math because the hands on presentation fits her learning style. MUS is also good for kinesthetic learners, but I am so not kinesthetic that I couldn't teach that....

 

Here's Sentence Family:

http://www.stmichaelschool.us/sentencefamily.html

 

Here's a thread with ideas for games to teach grammar, math, etc...

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62701

 

I'm discovering one reason my DD9 doesn't like to read is because she has a poor vocabulary and doesn't know the meanings of some words in the books which interest her. We listen to books on CD in the car and I occasionally stop and explain the meaning of words. We are using IEW Phonetic Zoo this year which she can do on her own, states the definitions and is auditory instead of reading based.

 

How about video based instruction? The teacher is moving and speaking so there is more visual interest and reaches an auditory learner. We tried A Beka with my DD12 and hated it, but I've heard Bob Jones is better. IEW SWI is awesome! That would cover writing.

 

Lastly, I'm going to try a Charlotte Mason approach with DD9.... Short Lessons, lots of time outside, Music, Art, good habits, etc.... Simply Charlotte Mason has a great seminar. http://simplycharlottemason.com/books/all-day-charlotte-mason-seminar-on-dvd/

 

I'm right there with you with a non-academic child, so I wish you all the best!

Edited June 12, 2009 by amtmcm

[AngieW in Texas]

I would go for LD testing. The thing that is a blazing beacon for me is that she struggled with naming the colors. This is a huge warning sign for dyslexia. Dyslexics often have problems with word retrieval. My youngest dd's difficulty with naming was one of the very first warning signs I saw.

 

Did your dd also have a hard time with days of the week, yesterday/today/tomorrow, months, seasons, ... ?

 

My dd didn't like hsing from the beginning either, but that was because it was such incredibly hard work for her.

 

When we did LD testing at the ps (free), her IQ was in the 99.6th percentile, but her reading scores ranged from 14th to 51st percentile and her writing scores ranged from 13th to 24th percentile. She scored at 41st percentile overall for academic applications.

 

Once I got the test results and knew what her issues were, I posted them everywhere and got program recommendations that actually worked for her. She is working at grade level in everything except writing now, but it has been a long haul to get here.

 

My dd did much better (and her attitude improved tremendously) once I was using programs that worked for her.

 

My dd wasn't lazy and her problems weren't due to her attitude. She had an attitude because of her learning difficulties (dyseidetic dyslexia, visual efficiency problems, and visual processing delays). Once we got the visual efficiency issues corrected and I knew how to work around the other problems, her attitude improved because she was actually capable of doing the work.

[Tina in ME]

Thank you all so much! It has been so helpful to read about others feeling the same way. You have all given me so much information to read and links to check out.

 

I will be having dd's vision checked. We have had it done before but it's been a couple of years so it's time to do it again. I will also be checking into testing. One problem is she is a little shy when it comes to talking to people she doesn't know. Last time at the eye doctor he had a hard time

getting her to tell him what she saw. Hopefully we can work through that.

 

I think she is a visual learner. She has always had trouble remembering peoples names. She will have known friends for years and still can't remember their name sometimes. She can discribe them to a T to get me to know who she is talking about but names are hard for her. She will also sometimes forget what something is called but again can discribe what it looks like and what it is for.

 

I wish there were a homeschool store close by because I think she would enjoy picking out some of her on curriculum. There is one store but it doesn't have a lot. We will have to check things out online as best we can.

 

The grade level thing is more of a problem for her. Almost all of her friends go to public school so they ask her what grade she is in. Since she is so advanced in dance they ask why she is only in that grade? She said no one ever makes fun of her or really cares but she feels stupid. Most of her friends are on 1-2 or more years older then her because she is in their dance classes since she is advanced. This year at the end of the dance year they were asked to fill out surveys. She was terrified. Not only did she have to read it. Which she could but it took twice as long as everyone else. She then had to put her thoughts on paper and do it all quickly so class could get started. One of her really good friends helped her out but she was mortified. She has since worked much harder at school but it just isn't easy for her. On the bright side she thinks she is going into 5th grade because she thinks we repeated 4th grade this year. We had talked about it last summer but never really resolved anything. But she was under the impression that we did. When I just talked to her she said I wish I was going into 6th grade like I should be. She does understand but most of her friends will be in 7th and 8th grade this fall so it is hard for her. I told her we can just dump the grade thing and just move ahead. Well maybe she said.... I talked to her dance teacher and she said they will not hold her back no matter what grade she is in. The pre-professional division is for high school and advanced 8th graders. When she is the correct age(not grade) she can audition. So dd is very happy about that. They know her and what she is capable of so they aren't worried about what grade she is in.

 

Wow this turned out long. I am going to do some research on what works well for visual learners. Any suggestions? I'm thinking Mathusee would be one.

 

Thanks so much.

Tina

[PollyOR]

I think she is a visual learner. She has always had trouble remembering peoples names. She will have known friends for years and still can't remember their name sometimes. She can discribe them to a T to get me to know who she is talking about but names are hard for her. She will also sometimes forget what something is called but again can discribe what it looks like and what it is for.

 

 

Wow! I have had this problem my whole life. Unfortunately, I have no advice.

 

Grade levels - I don't care about grade levels. We only use them so other people can place dd's age. She was the same age as most ps 5th graders, but she worked at a 4th grade level and sometimes lower in some subjects. We're just plugging along.

 

11yo dd was a late reader and complains about school. She doesn't hate it but she doesn't love it either. Last year she got up early so she could get school done and over with. Unfortunately, pre-puberty hormones are at work and now she wants to sleep in rather than do school. :glare:

 

I understand about the forms she had to fill out for her dance class. My girls aren't good spellers and they too are mortified when asked to write in public.

 

Commiserating with you. :grouphug:

[Matryoshka]

I will be having dd's vision checked. We have had it done before but it's been a couple of years so it's time to do it again.

 

Just make sure you go to a developmental (also called behavioral) optometrist, not an opthamologist or plain old optometrist. A developmental optometrist does a whole battery of vision tests that are not done in a "regular" exam.

[LibraryLover]

My child is 10, and because of where her b'day falls, she would be in 4th grade if she were attending school.

[Alison in KY]

:iagree:

 

My child is 10, and because of where her b'day falls, she would be in 4th grade if she were attending school.

[Guest gosiap]

I just joined this forum and just had to post this. My older daughter has been struggling in public school. We had her tested twice already, about three years ago by a private psychologist and recently before we pulled her out of ps by the school psych. We previously had a suspicion of dyslexia, but nothing like that came out this time(?). She had obvious visual processing problems. Her Wechsler Intelligence score came out as 93 (which I guess is average) Her overall processing speed came out quite low (in the 27th percentile). She had quite a high score in her auditory processing, and she does very well in reading comprehension(?) but math is a struggle, writing is a struggle, spelling is still a struggle, and she still reverses her b's and d's sometimes....a friend who is a psychologist told us that her IQ might be repressed because of other issues and that her inattention issues at school might be caused by the underlying problems. Since we pulled her out of ps, I have been trying to first get her comfortable with herself and her self-worth, which was pretty battered after ps. We recently started doing some school work but I would LOVE to hear from this forum your ideas. I can see that she catches on to new concepts pretty well if she is explained things one-on-one. She loves to do her homework lying on the bed, not bothered by her sister, maybe even listening to music. She completely loves learning about animals and her environment- I use that to direct her reading, I have tried with writing about animals, but her responses will always be limited to one sentence at a time, she does not write a paragraph on her own. I would greatly appreciate our ideas, how should I go about curriculum for her? I have started her on reviewing math from 3rd grade, this is where is seems to be comfortable with....I know she can easily read books that are 6th or 7th grade level....so I was thinking of buying the BJU Science 5 (since this is the grade level she should be in next school year), working on Math 3/4 but I am not sure what to do with her writing, how should I approach Math? I have so many questions....

[Katie.Louise]

Your daughter sounds so much like I was in school. I hated reading. I loved dance, and picked up steps very quickly. I liked math, science, and art pretty well. I hated reading, english, writing, etc...

 

I think people with more artsy/creative personalities seem to lean towards those same subjects. I love to sew, build all kinds of things, carpentry, gardening, music. I tend to teach myself how to do anything I am interested in. When I was little, a cord on a fisher price toy was bad. Somehow I talked my mom into buying a replacement cord I found at Wal-Mart. I replaced that cord and it worked. It is still on there to this day. I was probably 10 or 11. I don't have a clue how I knew how to fix it. I can't believe my mom let us plug that thing in, I could have burned the house down.:lol:

 

In school, I always scored poorly on the reading portion of tests, at least in comprehension. I could read pages and not have a clue what I had just read. My mind was elsewhere. They never put me in remedial classes though. There would be times when I tried to do better in school, but it wasn't that important to me to do that well.

 

I didn't read an entire book until, maybe my second year of college. I would just get by somehow. Then, when I was a mother of 2 and about 25 or so, I started reading fiction books (like N. Sparks, pushed my way by friends.) I started to love reading. Now I read all the time. Who would have ever thought that I would want to homeschool my 3 daughters. I am constantly reading and love it.

 

I hope what I have written doesn't scare you. :001_smile: I probably should have been checked for a learning disability. Who knows, maybe I had one. My mom used to think she hadn't read to me enough when I was little. I just couldn't help responding when I read your post, she sounds so much like me.

 

Katie

[Katie.Louise]

Just a note, I saw your post asking about Math-U-See. Since your dd sounds similar to me growing up (above post, sorry so long)....

 

I love Math-U-See. My girls all love it too. I wish I had been taught that way when I was growing up. With MUS, I am now able to explain the "why's" to them.

Hope this helps,

Katie

Edited June 14, 2009 by Katie.Louise

[pmurphy]

I thought you were describing my daughter! With her it is horseback riding though, instead of dance. I am so tired of the grade issue. I never officially started her in Kindergarten, but the rest of the world did! I am trying to train her to answer the grade question with something like "I'm 10 years old. We homeschool on many levels so I don't have an official grade."

 

Some things we are looking at:

The book the Gift of Dyslexia by Ron Davis,

Verticy Learning, online school geared for learning disabilities using the Orton Gillingham method of teaching reading

Sue Patrick's workbox system

 

A lot of other good ideas have already been mentioned--thanks eveyone!

 

Tricia

[LadyAberlin]

I'd take her to see a developmental or behavioral ophthalmologist. A little vision therapy may really help.

[Ellie]

Move on to 6th. Do what you can to help her improve academically. Unless she has some sort of learning difficulty, she'll be fine.

[ElizabethB]

Wow this turned out long. I am going to do some research on what works well for visual learners. Any suggestions?

 

My online phonics lessons are very visual! (Linked in my signature below.) They teach both phonics and spelling.

 

Singapore math has pictures that are very helpful for my daughter, you could try it out and see how she does with it, you can test her online and buy one textbook and one workbook at the level she's working at fairly inexpensively.

[ElizabethB]

She had quite a high score in her auditory processing, and she does very well in reading comprehension(?) but math is a struggle, writing is a struggle, spelling is still a struggle, and she still reverses her b's and d's sometimes....a friend who is a psychologist told us that her IQ might be repressed because of other issues and that her inattention issues at school might be caused by the underlying problems.

 

She completely loves learning about animals and her environment.

 

I have a few suggestions and exercises for b/d reversals here: http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/dbdb.html

 

For spelling, a lot of people with children with difficulties have had success with All About Spelling.

 

I have found for a reasonable price a spelling program called "Spelling Plus" by Susan C. Anthony, it also has an accompanying dictation book by the same author, "Spelling Dictation." You can get both at Rainbow Resource, if you search by the titles I have in quotes, they come up.

 

It uses spelling rules and patterns to teach the most common words + the most frequently misspelled words, 1,000 words total. For a student who needs a lot of time to learn something, I like having them working on words that will be most useful to them, and I like the way they arrange these 1,000 words to make them easier to learn. (It's actually good for a regular student, too, but most important for a struggling student.)

 

The first book teaches the words and has them arranged by lists, the Dictation book takes the words from the first book and uses them in sentences for dictation so they can practice writing these spelling words in sentences and make sure they can spell them like that, too, and not just in isolation.

 

You could also try my free online spelling lessons. If they move at too fast of a pace, she can watch my phonics lessons instead, they have all the spelling and spelling rules covered in the spelling lessons, but at a much slower pace. They are linked below in my signature.

 

I would post your question about how to teach her on the Special Needs Board, you should get a lot of good targeted answers there.

 

My daughter loves animals, too! We're moving to Santa Monica in about a month, we're currently near Little Rock, Arkansas.

 

I do a lot of tutoring, it's amazing how much more you can get done when working one-on-one.

Edited June 14, 2009 by ElizabethB

[momo9]

She could very well be burned out and discouraged. Have you asked her what else she is interested in? Maybe unit studies would be something you might consider. You said she loves animals and environment start with that. Ask her, get her input about what and how she'd like to learn. Sometimes children get stuck in a rut just like we do...they need somthing new, something different to draw their attention so that their intrest gets renewed.

 

Format is everything. I can't learn math by reading about it, I have to see it worked in front of me. English is the same. Science bores me to death so I have to think of ways to make it seriously interesting for myself and the children to learn it.

 

Why not let her figure out how she wants to learn the material?

[Brindee]

If she was 12 or maybe even 11, I'd say find the help you can and work through what needs to be done, and just move her on to 6th grade. But, as some people have mentioned, age 10 is usually 4th-5th grade, not 6th, so she's really NOT behind in that way!

 

Since she's still 10, and she thought you re-did 4th grade last year, I'd move her to 5th and keep it at that! At least she feels she moved forward! I'd also let her know that most 10 yo's are NOT in 6th grade, so she doesn't feel she's behind!

[krystal70]

Tina,

 

I did not read through all the pages but as I read more and more of what you were saying it sounded so much like my ds! He is 12 right now and in 7th grade but when he was in 4th we had him tested for some LD's because in my heart I knew something was not right with the way he was learning. It was subtle things that clued me in so his PS did not pay it any attention but I watched him struggle with reading, writing, and spelling to the point of him having crying spells and chewing on his clothes. (a long sleeve shirt would be a 3/4 shirt is record time!!) We noticed his reading issues in K but decided to let him progress to 1st (in a PS) where he continued to struggle and when I asked about it I was reassured that boys normally catch up by 3rd grade but I was not convinced that this was a case of just taking a while to gain a skill so by 3nd grade we had him in Sylvan Learning Center to try to get him up to grade level. He made improvements but still had issues that could not be fixed by just reading better. He could not spell and his writing was horrible. Writing a complete sentence was a major battle! Yet this kid could discuss Socrates with you and learn things the first go round. I pulled him out of PS in 5th grade to get him caught up and to help him become more of an independent learner as by then I knew his learning style and knew that it was going to be hard on him in a PS. It was during that time that I pursued, with a passion, testing on him. Turns out that he has a processing disorder, a word recall disorder, a weak short term memory, and dysgraphia. He is unable to break down large words if he reads them, he does not recognize some consonent blends, learning some sequences such as spelling rules and math tables is very difficult for him. He can not get the thoughts in his head out with writing. (yep he does a lot of dictation to me...) Yet the testing also showed that he is gifted in some areas so in essence I have a gifted kid with a LD. Man oh man did that explain his frustration levels! :) He is back in PS for now but next year he will come home to get him ready for HS as his writing and notetaking are not what they should be and also this past year the school was not able to properly address some of his educational needs. (he is a very auditory learner due to his reading struggles and they did not have his text books on CD this year for him)

 

I just wanted to share with you part of my story so that you could see that sometimes the clues are really subtle when it comes to LD's. Now that we know how to help DS the hours of tears and meltdowns are over and he is progressing in an amazing way as well as learning what works for him. He is reaching a point where he will now advocate in a classroom for himself if the teacher goes against what is on his IEP.

 

One last point, after years of fighting with a school about this DS and now waging a battle with the school for younger DS, I can honestly say that in no way can they do a better job for your DD with the way the classes are set up and the amount of students that the average teacher has to deal with. Some of my dearest friends are teachers and all agree that younger DS will be better off at home than in the school system for now.

 

If you have any questions feel free to PM me. :grouphug:

[krystal70]

I think that I should of reread before I posted. :) He was tested in his 5th grade year but the actual process did start at the end of his 4th grade year. We are in the same pattern with his younger brother...LOL Must be a family thing. :)

[kellycbr]

We're on a waiting list for DS at the nearby university hospital for a full learning evaluation. This will include a developmental pediatrician, a pediatric psycologist and a learning specialist. I want tools for ME so that I can help DS be successful. I'd encourage you to try something similar so that you really have a clear picture about what is going on with DD.

 

Kelly

[phathui5]

It sounds like she's what Howard Gardner calls a bodily-kinesthetic learner:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences

[Tina in ME]

Thank you again everyone. I will be persuing how to go about testing soon. But before I can do that we have had a major issue pop up.

 

This past Friday night my dd had a major injury to her eye. It was a very freak thing but she almost lost her eye. We were at the hospital until 1 am Sat morning. She had to have a cat scan and various other tests because of bleeding in her eye. We have been to the doctor for follow up once and will be going again today. He was worried about her vision because of the fact that things are still a little blurry. She has 3 different drops that are done at various times during the day some hourly. She seems to be getting better and the doctor thinks it will heal correctly but we need to keep having it checked. She has to keep from doing much physcial activity which is hard for her. She is suppose to start summer dance tonight and will probably have to wait at least a week. We will find out more in about 1 hour when we go to the doctor again.

 

Thanks everyone. I will be trying to figure it out once we get though this injury.

 

Tina

[Tina in ME]

If she was 12 or maybe even 11, I'd say find the help you can and work through what needs to be done, and just move her on to 6th grade. But, as some people have mentioned, age 10 is usually 4th-5th grade, not 6th, so she's really NOT behind in that way!

 

Since she's still 10, and she thought you re-did 4th grade last year, I'd move her to 5th and keep it at that! At least she feels she moved forward! I'd also let her know that most 10 yo's are NOT in 6th grade, so she doesn't feel she's behind!

 

She is young for a 6th grader but her 11th birthday is before the cut off date in our state. Which if she had gone to ps would have made her a 6th grader. This isn't a problem for me to have her be a 5th grader but she knows she should be a 6th grader. Most of her friends will be 7th and 8th graders this year and this really bothers her.

 

Tina

[Guest gosiap]

My daughter is totally in love with animals. Horse riding has been her things since she was almost 4, we have no idea where this came from, but she lves it with all her heart. Thank you for the suggestions about spelling and dyslexia, it has always been in the back of my mind, sicen two years ago they did say there was a suspicion of it. She did get tested at a great ophtalmologist, so I know her eyes are fine, but yet the visual processing is an issue, which remains a bit of a mystery to me.

Gosia

Mom to 2 girls in CA

[Matryoshka]

She did get tested at a great ophtalmologist, so I know her eyes are fine, but yet the visual processing is an issue, which remains a bit of a mystery to me.

 

 

It's not so much of a mystery. Opthamologists do not test for visual processing - they are concerned with the health of the eyeball, not how the brain processes the images received from them. You need to see a developmental/behaviorial optometrist. They do a whole extra battery of tests that test not just simple vision (can you see the "E" with one eye at a time), but how your eyes are tracking, if you're getting double vision (brain isn't properly integrating the images from each separate eye), other convergence issues - the list goes on.

 

Please see a developmental/behavioral optometrist. 20/20 vision in an exam by an opthamologist or regular optometrist does not in any way rule out visual processing issues.

[Matryoshka]

Thank you again everyone. I will be persuing how to go about testing soon. But before I can do that we have had a major issue pop up.

 

:grouphug: Oh, my.

 

I'm glad it wasn't more serious and hope she recovers quickly. How scary!

[katilac]

I would be very hesitant to move a child working at those levels into the middle grades, especially when she already thinks she is heading for

5th, not 6th. How hard would it be to move her up this year, only to have to hold her back next year? As others have said, some school districts would place her in 5th.

 

There is definitely wiggle room when you are home schooling, and I realize that some people don't use grades at all. But, if you are going to use them, they should have some meaning, imo, and she doesn't sound ready to handle 'middle school' or '6th grade.'

 

If I'm reading your post correctly, she will be about 5th grade for math, and

4th grade for language arts. Those are the core subjects, and kids aren't stupid - - you can tell her all day long she's going into 6th grade, but she will surely be aware that she is not doing 6th grade work. There's nothing wrong or horrible about needing another year before middle school!

 

I agree with trying different methods if possible, and with ruling out an LD. It's very true that not all students are going to be academically inclined, but to my mind, that means "not every kid is going to thrive on a rigorous classical education." If I had a non-academic student, I might consider changing methods or curriculum, but I'd still want that student on or near grade level in the core subjects.

 

Better to address this now, get her on level now, rather than continue as is and hope for the best, kwim? My rising 6th grader is the academic type, and I still foresee this as a very challenging year for us. Try to rule out any outside issues, let her have some input into curriculum type, and let her have the pride of truly moving to 6th grade when she is ready.

[Renee in NC]

I would be very hesitant to move a child working at those levels into the middle grades, especially when she already thinks she is heading for

5th, not 6th. How hard would it be to move her up this year, only to have to hold her back next year? As others have said, some school districts would place her in 5th.

 

There is definitely wiggle room when you are home schooling, and I realize that some people don't use grades at all. But, if you are going to use them, they should have some meaning, imo, and she doesn't sound ready to handle 'middle school' or '6th grade.'

 

If I'm reading your post correctly, she will be about 5th grade for math, and

4th grade for language arts. Those are the core subjects, and kids aren't stupid - - you can tell her all day long she's going into 6th grade, but she will surely be aware that she is not doing 6th grade work. There's nothing wrong or horrible about needing another year before middle school!

 

I agree with trying different methods if possible, and with ruling out an LD. It's very true that not all students are going to be academically inclined, but to my mind, that means "not every kid is going to thrive on a rigorous classical education." If I had a non-academic student, I might consider changing methods or curriculum, but I'd still want that student on or near grade level in the core subjects.

 

Better to address this now, get her on level now, rather than continue as is and hope for the best, kwim? My rising 6th grader is the academic type, and I still foresee this as a very challenging year for us. Try to rule out any outside issues, let her have some input into curriculum type, and let her have the pride of truly moving to 6th grade when she is ready.

 

My 11yo has LDs and would be going into the 6th grade next year if he were in school. He is on a 4th grade level in Language Arts (except writing is a 1st/2nd grade level), 5th in math, and is not able to handle logic stage assignments at this time. He will still do activities at a 6th grade level and be called a 6th grader - I don't particularly care about grades as long as he is moving forward. He would be HORRIFIED to be "held back" and it would serve no purpose except to reinforce that there is something "wrong" with him.

 

My 8yo on the other hand, I *did* hold back a year, but it was after 1st (age-wise) when he was on a K level. He should be a 3rd grader in the fall, but still on a late-K, early 1st level. The problem is that in every other way he is 8 (except that he is the size of the average 10.5 yo!) I will call him a 2nd grader, and in all activities he will be a 2nd grader EXCEPT Scouts because he has finished his tiger and wolf badges.

 

I am glad my 6yo has an October birthday - I just held off calling him a Ker until he was almost 6, so he will be almost 7 going into 1st. He is not at a finishing K-level yet, so this is good.

 

The point is that you have to be very, very careful "holding back" an older child. My 8yo has no concept that I held him back, but his older brother would. I would much rather call him a 5th grader, but it isn't worth the trauma it would cause him.