Mom2GirlsTX Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 My youngest is adopted so today at Dr.'s office I was filling out paperwork (actually updating it) and the receptionist told me that they needed to see my paperwork. I asked her what paperwork was she wanting, and she said "You know, your adoption paperwork". I must have had the most confused look on my face. She said that since I was an adoptive parent I needed to prove that I was a legal guardian. :glare: This particular dr.'s office is part of the Cook Children's Physician Network and she has been seeing many specialist since she was adopted at 7 1/2 months old. She is 9 1/2 years old and I have never been asked this. I have never been asked to prove I was my biological child's mother, why should I prove I am my adopted child's mother? Both girls are on my insurance card, and I have used this specialists office for 3 years. I really do not feel like I should bring in her adoption paperwork (I'm tempted to bring in the untranslated foreign paperwork and let them muddle through it) She said well you could just bring her legal birthcertificate ...or a passport. I am really upset as I don't see why I have to prove this, when no one else is having to prove there biological child is theirs, they aren't bringing DNA samples or birth certificates. Just wondering how I should handle this? Advice anyone :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I'd be discussing this with the Dr, and telling the Dr exactly what you've said here, and letting him/her know exactly how insulting this situation is. I've never been asked for a birth cert at a Drs office, just their health care cards. I'd be asking if there was a legal reason for this request. If there is not, then they wouldn't be getting it. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 That is really odd! I would ask for the office manager and speak with him/her about this. It does NOT seem right...especially since you have had dd for almost 9 years!!! I know that when my older son went to ps, I had to give them copies of my divorce papers from his dad...mostly that was legality as in "what were the terms and can the dad pick up the child" type stuff. But adoption papers to bring the child to the doctor??? That makes NO SENSE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann@thebeach Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 So in 8 yrs no one at this practice has asked for this info before? I agree that it sounds strange they would suddenly need it. I'm one that never gives out more info than necessary so I would just ask them for a specific reason. If she's on your insurance then obviously it's been proven somewhere a long the line that you are her legal guardian-insurance companies do not pay for anything unless they legally have to KWIM ;) I tend to frustrate people sometimes with me refusal to give information but I find that 90% of the time they really do NOT need the info, they just ask for it out of "routine" but have no reason for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I can't imagine why they would ask for that. Maybe the receptionist is new and overstepping her role? We definitely don't ask for paperwork on adopted kids at our office. We do ask for custody paperwork as that can get sticky with who is allowed access to the records. Or if someone's legal guardian changes we need the paperwork to reflect that in the chart (we have a family where the mother gave up guardianship to the grandmother for example). But never for adopted kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I've been an adoptive mom for almost 25 years. NEVER have I heard of this. Ask questions. Do not hand over paperwork without specific legal reasons. Just because someone asks doesn't mean they get to have what they ask for. I think I'd be asking the Doctor about this...and switching practices if I didn't get adequate answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenaj Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I'm not an adoptive parent, but when my last child was born (Dec., 2007) I was asked to provide proof that I was his mother !?! I asked what would satisfy that requirement and the main thing they wanted was a copy of my driver's license. I'm not sure what that proved as far as parentage and it really annoyed me as I had been going to this practice for at least 15 years. I wonder if the insurance companies are requiring more documentation of the drs. offices? My guess is that the drs. offices are under-the-gun to cover all the bases by either the government or the insurance companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa B Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I think it is the insurance company. My husband had to prove all four of our children are ours just this past month (none of them are adopted) or else lose our insurance on all of them. When I questioned what was going on, the insurance company said that too many people were putting unqualified children on their insurance - grandkids, cousins, neighbors, nieces/nephews, younger siblings, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 When we adopted our son, we provided papers before it was final showing that we had the right to make medical decisions for him. We have moved and changed doctors more than once since then and no one else has ever asked for his adoption papers. His SSN and insurance card, yes, but never adoption papers. We just finalized the adoption of our daughter from foster care - a process that took 2 years thanks to the "efficiency" :tongue_smilie:of the system. We had to provide copies of the court documents to the dr office just to confirm that the adoption was final and to confirm that the name was legally changed before changing their records. The pediatrician's office didn't even make a copy of them after they were glanced over for that information. Another medical office we use will need to see the reissued birth certificate before making changes to her records. But I understand why they would want this information now - the adoption was just finalized. In 9 years they shouldn't need it at all. I wouldn't provide them to this office without very good reason if I were you. The person sounds nosey or just not well versed in her job. If they want biolgical family medical history (if you even have that), they still wouldn't need the rest of the adoption records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2GirlsTX Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share Posted June 3, 2009 Thanks everyone! I checked with the insurance, it is not them, they have photocopies of adoption paperwork etc... I've not seen this receptionist before, but she is not new. I'm not going to provide the information, I feel it is an invasion at this point. If the Dr. wants to clarify why they need this, then maybe, but since it is not an insurance issue, I'm not sure what the point is. I was really gobsmacked by this whole thing and just stood there and looked confused. :confused: I'm glad my daughter was not standing there when this whole conversation exchange took place. Thanks for the moral support, I really needed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunaLee Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Maybe she's misinformed about HIPPA rules...I swear, my 14 y/o had to give the dr.s office her ok that they could release info to me and that I could be in the room with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintedlady Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Now that you know it's not the insurance co. asking, there's no way I'd comply. I'm shocked with/for you that they'd ask! My kids were both adopted at birth, and none of their doctors have ever asked for their paperwork. I've been sitting here try to figure out a good reason they'd need it and can't come up with a single thing. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I think that as offices are getting more computerized they have programs that ask for the information, and since a box is checked somewhere that she is adopted, it prompts them for the 'verification'. I have been asked for our daughters paperwork, but I always just tell them I will bring it next time. I don't plan to. Insurance companies are a little different though. The can and do request this info sometimes and will drop a patient/customer without it. If you get that request...you may want to respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 That is strange. All three of my children are adopted and even before they were finalized (we did fost-adopt) I was never required to show paperwork for anything. Even when the name on their Medi-Cal cards were different than the names we were calling them, and even for the 15 months when my daughter didn't even have a legal name (long story), we didn't have to prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LND1218 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The insurance company is most certainly within their rights to ask. We have had to do that. But you know it's not them. You are right to simply refuse. It's getting more common for drs offices to ask crazy things like this. I went round and round with one office wanted ds's birth name and birth moms name. He wasn't legally adopted, but in our state it's against the law for me to give this information. I went round and round with them - I finally told them to all his SW. It was so annoying! It most often comes down to ignorance of the process. I do my best to educate them. If they need something provide them with your DL or child's BC. I have never had to show a BC, but I have had to show my DL. If they ask for the BC ask it they ask for it for all patients. If they don't, I would refuse to show it. That's just me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaT Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I have two adopted children and have never had any office ask to see my adoption paperwork. I would simply refuse. I may show them a bc, but only if it was required for all children, adopted or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rita Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 We've had to prove our biological children are ours for the insurance company. No doctor has ever asked for anything. Personally, I'd be tempted to take the foreign documents and show the receptionist, but I'm ornery like that! I'd also be talking with the doctor about it, and the inappropriateness of it. blessings, Rita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I would just say, "I don't give that information out. If you are concerned that the child is not legally mine, even though I have been bringing her here for x years, please call my insurance company to verify." Doctors (and everyone else it seems) ask for social security numbers all the time also, even thoough you are legally allowed to refuse them the information. I just leave the space blank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I'd be discussing this with the Dr, and telling the Dr exactly what you've said here, and letting him/her know exactly how insulting this situation is. Unless it is a small, privately owned clinic with one support staff and one nurse, the doc has NO idea this is being asked of you. Talk to the manager. Docs are there to see medical issues, as these are billable and generate the money to support all that staff. The more time the doc spends on non-medical stuff, the more time spent not generating income, therefore the strong trend is to have people who are "office people" take care of that end of things. I know of a couple small, old-fashioned offices, with hubby the doc and wifey the manager, but they are fewer and fewer. The time to talk to a doc is if they are the owner and you are getting no where with the staff (or staff is rude, etc). If the doc is an employee like the rest, there will be a manager, perhaps not on site, but somewhere. Talk to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2GirlsTX Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Thanks again everyone. I am going to call tomorrow and speak to the office manager. As this is a sub office of the local Children's Hospital, and their card even says Cook Childrens on it, they (including the Dr. ) are all employees there of. I am going to talk to the manager and see if I get anywhere , and if not, dh said he will call the hospital main office and inquire why this is being required. If they push it, well I'll either forget to bring them or just bring the foreign documents, unless someone is fluent in Moldovan, I doubt this will go far. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 As a 39 year old adoptee AND an adoptive mom, I've never been asked for "adoption paperwork" at any Dr's office we've visited. That's just irritating! Thankfully, our new Dr. is an adoptive parent, too :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie in NE Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I have 3 adopted children, and have had MANY foster children over the years, and I have NEVER been asked by anyone to prove that I am their "legal guardian". This seems quite intrusive, and it is frankly none of their business. The only thing I've ever been asked to prove to a Dr. is my ability to pay the bill. Yikes. Tell them to take a hike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I think it is the insurance company. My husband had to prove all four of our children are ours just this past month (none of them are adopted) or else lose our insurance on all of them. When I questioned what was going on, the insurance company said that too many people were putting unqualified children on their insurance - grandkids, cousins, neighbors, nieces/nephews, younger siblings, etc. We just went through this also. I don't know why the doc's office would need this information though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Katia Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Good luck with the office manager. Hopefully, yours will have some knowledge and intelligence......which is severely lacking in our dr.'s office manager. Honestly, if my doc wasn't the best around, I'd leave just because his office manager is such a kook! This is only one example (we go 'round and 'round with her, lol) but I had taken my 16yo dd to see dr. for a swelling on her jaw-line. Fast-forward several weeks and the office manager sent MY DD a bill and a request for insurance information. Dd had no idea what it was all about and handed it to me..... so I call the office manager and ask if they now have a new policy of sending bills to minor children. Office manage says, Of course not. So I ask her why she sent my dd a bill and she looks it up and says....well, she came to see dr. about a swollen lymph node...... I say, Yes, but she's 16 years old...... Office mgr says, But...I have to send the bill to her..... I say, She is a 16 year old MINOR CHILD..... Office manager sounds confused and says, But....but....I need her to sign and verify that she is covered by insurance.... I say, Excuse me. If you'll read the form you sent to her, on the space where it says "person responsible for payment" you will see her father's name and where it says "insurance" you will find our insurance company listed with our policy number. Office manager says, Where is that information again? I point out the exact spot. Office manager says, Oh. I didn't see that. (!) I say, Please do not send any more bills or paperwork addressed to my minor child. Send it to me or my dh. Office manager says, Well, if she comes in to see the dr., I'll have to send her a bill..... Sometimes....you just have to give up. The intelligence level is just.not.there. Kwim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnL Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 This has happened to me once, with one of my kiddos. All three of my kids joined us through the miracle of adoption. I was very upset when I was asked this, because there should be no reason to "prove" that I am my child's parent. When I told the dingbat on the phone that I had his birth certificate with my name on it, showing me as his mom, she actually said, "How did you get that?" I'm sure the scorching hot voicemail I left her supervisor that afternoon went a long way into fixing that situation. In the future, if I'm asked, I already know what I'm going to say. "Those documents are sealed by the court. Here is my attorney's phone number. If you contact her, she will let you know where to send the subpoena." I figure if that doesn't inform them of their place, then we need to feel really sorry for their complete ignorance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintedlady Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 In the future, if I'm asked, I already know what I'm going to say. "Those documents are sealed by the court. Here is my attorney's phone number. If you contact her, she will let you know where to send the subpoena." :lol: Love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeri Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Call the office, ask for the request *in writing* so you can have it reviewed by your lawyer (whether or not you have one). They will very quickly realize that what their asking for may even be illegal and drop the request. jeri mom to six, three adopted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 We had to provide proof that the child was ours to our insurance company only (just as you would have to provide a birth certificate for your bio children to add them on). Once that child is on your insurance, the doctors' offices just go by that. I had a dentist receptionist do the same thing.....I NEVER have gone back to that dentist! Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 We had to provide proof that the child was ours to our insurance company only (just as you would have to provide a birth certificate for your bio children to add them on). A couple of people have mentioned having to provide this to their insurance companies, so I just wanted to chime in on why this has become more popular. This is called a "dependent audit," and employers and insurance companies are doing this more and more often because an astounding number of employees cover their girlfriends, the girlfriend's children, their siblings, nieces, nephews, grandchildren, etc., when they are not eligible. I'm an employee benefits attorney, and until about a year ago, I'd never heard of either this kind of fraud or a dependent audit, but lately, dependent audits have become the next big thing to reduce costs. If you get a letter requesting proof of dependent status, and it is from your insurer or employer, respond. Give them something, even if you can't provide exactly what they ask for. The consequences of not responding can include (1) your child's (or everyone else's) coverage being dropped, (2) action against the employee, including a termination of employment, and (3) attempts to recover any amounts paid in benefits for the supposed dependent. If the employer/insurer can't recover the amounts paid on behalf of the ineligible dependent, as in #3, it can issue a 1099 so that the supposed dependent is taxed on any any benefits paid on her behalf. Then you have to fight the IRS, and you will not win. I'm in no way agreeing that you should provide adoption paperwork to the doctor's office, as I heartily agree with everyone else that the OP should not, but if your insurer or employer asks for something like this, please give them something. You may need to be creative with what you can provide--a letter from the adoption agency or a social worker, perhaps, but definitely give them something. Terri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Our insurance company (BCBS) has never asked for more than social security numbers. The insurance is through dh's company, and my oldest child isn't even "his", but we have never run into any issues. No birth certificates, no custody papers, no nothing in the past 9 years. I always figured the SS#s were proof enough. Correction: We have had arguments over double coverage. They can never figure out whether dh's or ex's ins. should be charged first, but that's a whole other issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylou Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I would switch doctors before I would hand over adoption paperwork. My girls were adopted and I have never been asked for those papers. I haven't even shown them the papers yet, and they are their rightful owners, if you thnk about it! BTW I just found this site yesterday www.parentalrights.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2GirlsTX Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) In the future, if I'm asked, I already know what I'm going to say. "Those documents are sealed by the court. Here is my attorney's phone number. If you contact her, she will let you know where to send the subpoena." :iagree: I was laying in bed late last night, just thinking about this. I did two adoptions of her, the one in Moldova, and then readopted her in the US in a court where the papers were sealed. Thanks for the advice! A couple of people have mentioned having to provide this to their insurance companies, so I just wanted to chime in on why this has become more popular. This is called a "dependent audit," and employers and insurance companies are doing this more and more often because an astounding number of employees cover their girlfriends, I'm in no way agreeing that you should provide adoption paperwork to the doctor's office, as I heartily agree with everyone else that the OP should not, but if your insurer or employer asks for something like this, please give them something. You may need to be creative with what you can provide--a letter from the adoption agency or a social worker, perhaps, but definitely give them something. Terri Excellent advice, thank you! Edited June 4, 2009 by Mom2GirlsTX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2GirlsTX Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) Call the office, ask for the request *in writing* so you can have it reviewed by your lawyer (whether or not you have one). They will very quickly realize that what their asking for may even be illegal and drop the request. jeri mom to six, three adopted Wow that is a great idea! Can you send me a pm what yahoo groups for adoption you like? I would like to join one. Thanks. I would switch doctors before I would hand over adoption paperwork. My girls were adopted and I have never been asked for those papers. I haven't even shown them the papers yet, and they are their rightful owners, if you thnk about it! BTW I just found this site yesterday www.parentalrights.org Thank you for that link! Edited June 4, 2009 by Mom2GirlsTX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHGrandma Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 And here's an alternative view: My husband and I are the legal guardians of our grandson. If either of his parents took him to the doctor for a non-emergency without notifying us, the doctor would be up a creek without a paddle for treating him. Neither of his parents have a legal right to make any medical decision for him. We would not say a word if it was an emergency. That said, providing a birth certificate does not provide the doctors office with certain proof you are the legal guardian. Ask your doctor what is really needed, and why. It's possible someone in the office misunderstood the myriad of laws intended to protect all parties, particularly the doctor, from a lawsuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherLynn Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I am an adoptive Mom who ALSO uses Cook's specialty clinics and I have NEVER had to prove anything. I do not know how they could MAKE you prove that. I would go above her head. That is ridiculous. They should be requiring EVERYONE prove they are the parents (either adoptive or biologically) if they are going to make one person. That is discriminatory and I would be making a huge stink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katiebug_1976 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I'd be discussing this with the Dr, and telling the Dr exactly what you've said here, and letting him/her know exactly how insulting this situation is. I've never been asked for a birth cert at a Drs office, just their health care cards. I'd be asking if there was a legal reason for this request. If there is not, then they wouldn't be getting it. Period. :iagree: My thoughts exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2GirlsTX Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) Okay, latest update. I called and talked to the manager of the office. It is a new policy for this office only as there was a problem with a non custodial person who sought treatment etc...now there are pending legal issues, etc. So for this specialty clinic only, every child, adopted, biological etc will be required to provide a copy of a birth certificate. In the event that their has been a divorce, they need copies of divorce paperwork showing who has custody, etc. I could switch dr.'s, but this is one of the best in the field for this specialty and I think it is worth it since everyone has to do it. They apologized that they did not explain the reason, and that they were busy having all clients update paperwork. Not a perfect situation, but obviously they are having to go to extra steps because of a legal situation. I do believe them, as I know this is not typical policy of Cook Childrens, as my youngest has special needs and we have seen just about every specialist under the sun and I had never run into this before. So I am going to provide them her Texas Birth Certificate and let it go, I will not be providing adoption paperwork. Thanks for all the advice. Edited June 4, 2009 by Mom2GirlsTX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHGrandma Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Okay, latest update. I called and talked to the manager of the office. It is a new policy for this office only as there was a problem with a non custodial person who sought treatment etc...now there are pending legal issues, etc. So for this specialty clinic only, every child, adopted, biological etc will be required to provide a copy of a birth certificate. In the event that their has been a divorce, they need copies of divorce paperwork showing who has custody, etc. They apologized that they did not explain the reason, and that they were busy having all clients update paperwork. Not a perfect situation, but obviously they are having to go to extra steps because of a legal situation. I do believe them, as I know this is not typical policy of Cook Childrens, as my youngest has special needs and we have seen just about every specialist under the sun and I had never run into this before. So I am going to provide them her Texas Birth Certificate and let it go, I will not be providing adoption paperwork. Thanks for all the advice. Bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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