S/O phone access--secrets in marriage

[City Mouse]

DH at one time set up his electronic planner to synch with mine so we would know each other's schedules in detail. I hated it. Dude, I have enough to worry about without all of your zillion and one things cluttering up my already full calendar. If there is something specific I really need to know, tell me. Otherwise, have your lunches and your meetings and whatever and I'll see you when you get home.

My DH did this too. It drove me crazy. He had it set up to send him reminder alerts for everything on his calendar. The darn thing would beep at me all day long. That lasted a day or two before I turned it all off.

[Guest]

That's not a gender-linked trait.

I should have said close women friends. Just my sister, now that I think of it. I do have a bff but, as I said, she shares my info with her DH (who I like) and I'm not cool with that.

[Mimm]

Goodness I don't tell my husband my friend's secrets. It's one thing to say that *I* shouldn't have secrets from my husband, but my friends certainly deserve to.

[Joker]

This is such an interesting conversation. We are one of those 'share all the things' couples. We don't really have privacy, let alone secrets! It's the only relationship I have where I am 100% completely myself, and for me, that's what makes it special. 

 

I wonder if this is a big part of it. Maybe those who don't get why some of us share everything have had other relationships, with family or friends, where they feel they can be 100% themselves. Dh has been the only person I feel that way with so my relationship with him is very different from all other relationships. I don't feel completely safe with anyone else. I grew up in a good family with awesome parents but they are all very different from who I am so I've never really been myself with them. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm completely myself with my husband. But I am still a private individual. It's just a personality thing. I would never had married someone who wanted to share everything. I would find it suffocating. That isn't a knock on someone who revels in that - it's just what works for my husband and me.

 

 

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[Joker]

I'm completely myself with my husband. But I am still a private individual. It's just a personality thing. I would never had married someone who wanted to share everything. I would find it suffocating. That isn't a knock on someone who revels in that - it's just what works for my husband and me.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

In case you were responding to my post, I wanted to clarify. 

 

I wasn't saying you, or others, aren't completely yourself with your spouse. I was wondering if there are other family and friends you have been able to be completely yourself with as well. In my life, dh is the only one. 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Joker

[Jean in Newcastle]

In case you were responding to my post, I wanted to clarify.

 

I wasn't saying you, or others, aren't completely yourself with your spouse. I was wondering if there are other family and friends you have been able to be completely yourself with as well. In my life, dh is the only one.

 

I

I'm always myself. With friends, family, even here. That doesn't mean that I might not talk about different things with different people. There are certain reminiscences that I can make with my friend of 40 years, that I can't make with my husband because he hasn't known me that long. I have told him the stories but it is different than sharing a childhood memory with someone who was actually there. And of course there are intimate conversations that I have had with my husband that I would not share with anyone else. But that doesn't mean that I am more "real" with one person over the other.

[kewb]

I think this is a moment my kid's philosophy teacher would say you have to define your terms. Secret is broad. What makes something a secret versus something you choose not to share? Is the act of not sharing keeping a secret? Is choosing not to visit a painful part of your past by discussing it keeping a secret? Is thinking about an old boyfriend and not telling your spouse keeping a secret?

 

Secrets don't destroy a marriage. Broken trust destroys a marriage. I trust until you give me a reason not to.

 

There are things I don't share with dh and there are things he doesn't share with with me. I don't need to know everything, nor do I want to.

Edited April 30, 2017 by kewb

[Bluegoat]

Yes, I also think there is a difference between secrets, private matters, and confidetial matters.

 

My dh and I have both had joobs with security clearances in the past, so the idea that some things aren't shared was formalized there.  But the same principle applies to other things.

 

I also think that dh and I, and my kids for that matter, are allowed to have our own privacy.  We're allowed to have thoughts and feelings we keep to ourselves.  I'm always a bit reticent about asking anyone about things that might feel private to them unless I am pretty sure they'd like the invitation to talk about it.  I wouldn't intrude on dh's private thoughts any more than I would walk in on him in the toilet.

 

As far as things like passwords, I would be happy to share them with dh, he tends not to because he feels the more people that know them the more likely a problem will occur.  But he'd tell me if it became important to do so.

[Carrie12345]

Such a large part of this is semantics.  And I know we've had this conversation before, because I've stated that I tell dh "everything."  Obviously that isn't 100% accurate.  If a friend tells me about menstrual issues or my sister talks to me about teA, I'm not running back to him with those conversations.  Why would he want to know any of that, and why would I want to share???  But I've had to remind SIL multiple times that I don't keep things from her brother, because she has a history of dropping giant piles in my lap that he would be hurt to find out I knew.

 

My extended family knows this, too. And not just with spouses, but each other, to an extent. 99% of the time, we'd never say anything to one relative that we wouldn't say to another.  1% of the time, we practically create a verbal contract of temporary silence. Permanent silence is *almost non-existent between us.  But we all share that understanding and it works for us.

[Reefgazer]

Your description of how you handle your car repairs mirrors the why and how of how I handle the gardening, LOL!

I don't know if we keep secrets or not. How would I know that?? I'm woefully inept at navigating basic technology (smart phones, computers, etc.). And my dh is incredibly good (dare I say downright devious? :rolleyes: ) at leaving out information when talking to people, including me. It's actually a skill that comes in very handy in certain situations - just not so much in a marriage. After 37 years, I've gotten somewhat used to it. I know his history and how he ended up this way. It has nothing to do with me. I also know it's fairly useless to try to change him ... cuz I used to try ;). So, yeah, there probably are many things I don't know about in this marriage ("secrets").

 

And, although I tend to blurt out things, there are definitely areas I hold my tongue. Like the money stuff for our car repairs and maintenance. I 'collect' cash to use when I go down to visit our college kids. While there, and dh is far, far away, I use that cash to have all the cars down there worked on. I do cash and instruct the shops NOT to contact my dh under ANY circumstances - always, ALWAYS call MY phone number with questions, etc. Why? Because my dh's knee-jerk response to ANY suggestion that a car may need 'work' (= money spent) is, "Oh, it's fine." That or, "I can do that." Only he can't 'do that' anymore because he's rarely there, and they are 5 people in a 3-bedroom apartment with barely enough room for their own stuff, much less a whole shop's worth of tools. Oh, and there's also the old classic, "We'll get it fixed when we have the money." Which is never, of course, in his mind. So I keep a secret stash of cash ...

 

Another area I very much left out information when talking with dh (taking a page from his own playbook) was concerning our kids. Once I realized his expectations for kids, in general, were totally out of touch with reality, I grew very selective in what and when I shared information with him in that area. I also stepped in between dh and a child when necessary. No regrets there.

 

I'm sure there are other areas that I'm forgetting at the moment.

 

My dh is also one who doesn't want to know everything that passes through my head. He seems to have the attitude that if it's not absolutely, 100%, essential that he know the thing, then don't clutter up his brain with it because he already has so much clutter he has to remember for work. And I feel the same way about his work stuff ... it's just clutter in my brain, for the most part.

 

And I suppose all this holds for friends, too. I'm not even sure if he has friends at work although he mentions names from time to time, and he knows very little about any friends I might have.

[The Girls' Mom]

I won't lie to dh, but we are kind of private people.  I don't look at his phone or computer and he doesn't look at mine.  We don't know each other's passwords to everything, but would share if needed.  We don't tell each other everything either.  

 

It would annoy me (and has with couple friends in the past) that a friend would tell her husband things we talked about.  

[amy g.]

There are some things that don't really affect Dh and I don't want to burden him with the knowledge. But I will say, "You don't even want to know, Honey!" And he is totally fine with that.

 

Recently, something happened with one of our adult kids that had Dh upset. He came home from work and said, "K. Told me that I had to tell you this." He had told a coworker and said that he didn't think he should tell me! Fortunately, his coworker said he had to!

 

I wasn't seriously upset because I really am happy that he has people at work he is close to and can talk to, but I made it clear that if he knows something concerning the kids I have a right to know.

 

I don't lie to Dh and I don't hide things from him either, but I don't think every single thing has to be shared.

 

Where would the mystery be then?

[Jean in Newcastle]

This thread has actually been helpful to me.  In the past, I've been jealous of people who seem so intertwined because it fit the Hallmark image of romance in my mind.  But as I've typed out what works for dh and my personalities I've realized how what we have is perfect for US. 

 

Up thread, I realized that being intertwined would feel suffocating to me.  That doesn't mean that I think that people who have that kind of marriage are wrong or are suffocating people or anything.  It's sort of like when I dated a couple of guys who were so much into the gentleman thing that they would not let me do anything.  It seriously irked me that I could not get out of a car on my own but had to sit on my duff while waiting for them to go around to open the car door.  And one guy wouldn't let me lift a single box at a moving party we had gone to for friends.  I mean, I was there to help them move, not to sit around fanning myself!  Both "gentlemen" married other women who seemed to bask in being pampered.  Dh doesn't pamper me because in his words, he "knows that you've got it".  Sometimes I would like a bit of a mix where he pampers me a little more at times but he really is the best man for me.  We fit and 24 years of marriage hasn't changed that. 

[Pam in CT]

I concur with a number of pp that how differences in how we define "secrets" vs "privacy" affect this discussion a good deal.

 

Some stories aren't mine to tell.  If a good friend confides a difficulty she's going through... that isn't my story; it isn't appropriate for me to share it with anyone, including my husband.  I don't consider that "keeping a secret."  I consider it honoring a confidence.

 

 

 

[ocelotmom]

The other piece of common advice that really bothers me is "spouses should always back each other up in front of the kids" with discipline issues and such.

 

This makes no allowance for circumstances in which one parent may be behaving in an irrational or abusive or even just cluelessly harmful manner (developmentally inappropriate expectations, for example); under such circumstances standing up to the other parent may be the only responsible thing to do.

 

I think my parents had some sort of agreement, formal or tacit, about not arguing in front of the kids. I don't know. In any case, I can't remember ever seeing them argue.

 

Their divorce when I was in my early 20s utterly blindsided me. Except it didn't. I'd sensed the tension for a long time, and actually wondered in 8th grade if they were going to divorce, but just thought I was crazy, since they didn't argue.

 

I was also left with the impression that a good relationship meant you don't disagree. If we fought, well, clearly the relationship just wasn't meant to be. 

 

I think it's healthier for kids to see parents disagree, resolve their issues, and love eachother despite disagreement. 

[Catwoman]

I won't lie to dh, but we are kind of private people. I don't look at his phone or computer and he doesn't look at mine. We don't know each other's passwords to everything, but would share if needed. We don't tell each other everything either.

 

It would annoy me (and has with couple friends in the past) that a friend would tell her husband things we talked about.

I guess the issue here is that we never really know how much a person shares with her spouse, because many couples don't keep secrets or confidences from each other, but that doesn't mean that either of them would ever share that information with anyone else.

 

Basically, I mean that "he" or "she" will tell their spouse pretty much everything, but "they" can keep that secret or confidence private between them and not tell anyone else. I have known sisters who were the same way, as well as mothers and daughters.

 

I don't believe we can ever be 100% sure that the things we say in confidence won't eventually be revealed to other people.

[marbel]

I think my parents had some sort of agreement, formal or tacit, about not arguing in front of the kids. I don't know. In any case, I can't remember ever seeing them argue.

 

Their divorce when I was in my early 20s utterly blindsided me. Except it didn't. I'd sensed the tension for a long time, and actually wondered in 8th grade if they were going to divorce, but just thought I was crazy, since they didn't argue.

 

I was also left with the impression that a good relationship meant you don't disagree. If we fought, well, clearly the relationship just wasn't meant to be. 

 

I think it's healthier for kids to see parents disagree, resolve their issues, and love eachother despite disagreement. 

 

First, I'm sorry you went through that.  Stories like this make me so sad and mad at the same time.

 

Still, I think there is a difference between disagreeing in front of the kids, and disagreeing about the kids in front of the kids.  Or maybe what I mean is, there is a difference between disagreeing and correcting one another, and we don't correct each other in front of the kids.  

 

My husband never saw his parents disagree, though he knew they did at times.  Worse, I think:  he never saw them resolve anything.  So he has a hard time, still, after 20+ years, arguing constructively with me to reach a resolution. We don't disagree very often.   But, if something comes up and the kids are there, fine, they will see how it works out.

 

But if one of us sees the other handling something in a way we know is wrong, we will wait till we're alone (or we'll excuse ourselves from the kids) and talk it over, particularly if it's something to do with one or both of the kids.  

 

It might be a very subtle difference I can't explain.  And, again, this has nothing to do with abusive relationships or excessive anger/punitive behavior.  Just everyday disagreements that typical families face.

[Catwoman]

First, I'm sorry you went through that. Stories like this make me so sad and mad at the same time.

 

Still, I think there is a difference between disagreeing in front of the kids, and disagreeing about the kids in front of the kids. Or maybe what I mean is, there is a difference between disagreeing and correcting one another, and we don't correct each other in front of the kids.

 

My husband never saw his parents disagree, though he knew they did at times. Worse, I think: he never saw them resolve anything. So he has a hard time, still, after 20+ years, arguing constructively with me to reach a resolution. We don't disagree very often. But, if something comes up and the kids are there, fine, they will see how it works out.

 

But if one of us sees the other handling something in a way we know is wrong, we will wait till we're alone (or we'll excuse ourselves from the kids) and talk it over, particularly if it's something to do with one or both of the kids.

 

It might be a very subtle difference I can't explain. And, again, this has nothing to do with abusive relationships or excessive anger/punitive behavior. Just everyday disagreements that typical families face.

I think I understand what you mean. You're not intentionally hiding things from the kids. You're just not sticking them in the middle of every little thing, and when the disagreement is about the kids, you aren't placing them in a position where one parent is the "good guy" and the other is the "bad guy."

[SparklyUnicorn]

My husband would so not care.  I would feel no need to tell him.

 

 

[Pam in CT]

re standard marriage advice not fitting all situations:

... One thing I have learned through living with a spouse with mental illness is that the rather standard marriage advice to keep marital issues between spouses, not turn to outside confidantes, etc. isn't always wise. I think that goes double for potentially abusive situations and in general I find the advice dangerous. There is just not a way to make a "rule" about what should or should not be a secret inside or outside a marriage, life is too complex for that.

 

The other piece of common advice that really bothers me is "spouses should always back each other up in front of the kids" with discipline issues and such.

This makes no allowance for circumstances in which one parent may be behaving in an irrational or abusive or even just cluelessly harmful manner (developmentally inappropriate expectations, for example); under such circumstances standing up to the other parent may be the only responsible thing to do.

 

I would add that these two standard-issue marital advice morsels in combination have the potential to really isolate women who are in unhealthy situations.   It's often very difficult, from within the vantage point of an unhealthy situation, to recognize it for what it is.  If such marital advice creates a taboo against talking about what's happening -- either outside the marriage to a trusted friend or family member, or within the moment that certain dynamics are playing out -- it can be very hard to "see" or name unhealthy behavior for what it is.

 

 

This is one of those things that someone coming from a healthy marriage with a mentally and emotionally stable spouse does that wouldn't apply to a different situation.

...

 

 

I expect that's right.  The difficulty though is that acknowledging that dynamics are unhealthy is quite hard.  It is rare, for a married person to arrive quickly to a point that "my marriage is unhealthy" or "my spouse is unsafe / unstable."

 

And I agree with maize that taboos that tamp down processing with trusted friends outside the marriage, or naming-in-the-moment certain behaviors within the marriage even if in front of the kids, inhibits that process of recognition and acknowledgment.  

 

A good part of being a good friend is to be receptive hearing whatever is being said... and, to the OP, holding the confidence.

[marbel]

<snip>

 

I would add that these two standard-issue marital advice morsels in combination have the potential to really isolate women who are in unhealthy situations.   It's often very difficult, from within the vantage point of an unhealthy situation, to recognize it for what it is.  If such marital advice creates a taboo against talking about what's happening -- either outside the marriage to a trusted friend or family member, or within the moment that certain dynamics are playing out -- it can be very hard to "see" or name unhealthy behavior for what it is.

 

<snip>

 

I see what you are saying here.    I'm thinking about books/articles I've read, speakers I've heard, etc., and it seems that this "boilerplate" advice generally comes with an acknowledgement of the exceptions.  Or, maybe I've reached the point that I just insert it myself now in my own head.  

 

So when I see advice to "never complain about your husband to others" it's nearly always coupled with something like "if you need someone to confide in, choose..." a trusted friend or relative, older woman at church, basically some type of person who will help you.  As opposed to getting into a big husband-bashing session at a mom's night out in the local pub.

 

I can see it being very isolating and frustrating if a person feels there is literally no person they can speak to if something seems wrong.   

[maize]

I see what you are saying here. I'm thinking about books/articles I've read, speakers I've heard, etc., and it seems that this "boilerplate" advice generally comes with an acknowledgement of the exceptions. Or, maybe I've reached the point that I just insert it myself now in my own head.

 

So when I see advice to "never complain about your husband to others" it's nearly always coupled with something like "if you need someone to confide in, choose..." a trusted friend or relative, older woman at church, basically some type of person who will help you. As opposed to getting into a big husband-bashing session at a mom's night out in the local pub.

 

I can see it being very isolating and frustrating if a person feels there is literally no person they can speak to if something seems wrong.

Part of the problem is that it is not always clear to the person involved in an unhealthy relationship that their relationship is a case where an exception ought to apply.

 

And relationships with unhealthy aspects are all too common in my experience.

 

I'm a pretty strong willed person, I feel like I have a decent grasp on the realities of my life and well developed coping abilities--but navigating marriage and co-parenting with mental illness in the mix has been incredibly challenging and complicated. The best approach to any given situation is never clear and yes I do question my decisions more when they go against the standard advice. If I were less confident in my own perceptions and abilities I would have floundered a long time ago. And this is a situation where my partner, despite his illness, is a profoundly decent human being.

 

Even so I'm pretty sure I'm taking a wrong approach at least half the time; I just have to muddle through because usually there doesn't seem to be a right approach.

Edited April 30, 2017 by maize

[Pam in CT]

I see what you are saying here.    I'm thinking about books/articles I've read, speakers I've heard, etc., and it seems that this "boilerplate" advice generally comes with an acknowledgement of the exceptions.  Or, maybe I've reached the point that I just insert it myself now in my own head.  

 

So when I see advice to "never complain about your husband to others" it's nearly always coupled with something like "if you need someone to confide in, choose..." a trusted friend or relative, older woman at church, basically some type of person who will help you.  As opposed to getting into a big husband-bashing session at a mom's night out in the local pub.

 

I can see it being very isolating and frustrating if a person feels there is literally no person they can speak to if something seems wrong.   

 

 

Yeah, I'm not referring to husband-bashing Mom's Night Out sessions at the pub either (though I've never been invited to such a thing, lol).  That sounds both tacky, and quite unhelpful.  More the trusted confidante.

[marbel]

Yeah, I'm not referring to husband-bashing Mom's Night Out sessions at the pub either (though I've never been invited to such a thing, lol).  That sounds both tacky, and quite unhelpful.  More the trusted confidante.

 

LOL, never been invited to one either, but sure have seen them evolve!  I even remember going to a knitting group once, oh man did those ladies get right into ripping their husbands apart.  It was so ugly.  I couldn't go back.

 

But I am veering way off topic now.  :-)

[SparklyUnicorn]

To add, I can't see why this would be a big deal (that I tell my husband) unless he happens to be connected to the person somehow.  For example a person complaining about a spouse who is related to my husband.  Otherwise, who cares?  I wouldn't even ask someone not to tell their spouse under most circumstances.  Really, it is probably better to have SOMEONE to tell than keep it all to yourself.  There is just something about having the need to talk something out with someone else. And why not a spouse? 

[EMS83]

Technically we have a 100% open door policy.  HOWEVER, it doesn't work out that way practically.  I can't (and shouldn't) recount verbatim every thought in my head.  I don't have time to give a blow by blow of my 4 hour conversation with a friend.  And...you know when the girls get together and start talking about shaving or unmentionables...I'm pretty sure DH doesn't need or want to know those details.  I also don't participate in those conversations.  Anything not private in nature is fair game, though.  It doesn't mean it will be shared or is even likely to be shared, but it's possible.  But we have such limited focused time together, I prioritize subjects that are closer to home.  :)

[EMS83]

LOL, never been invited to one either, but sure have seen them evolve!  I even remember going to a knitting group once, oh man did those ladies get right into ripping their husbands apart.  It was so ugly.  I couldn't go back.

 

But I am veering way off topic now.  :-)

 

Sunday school.  MOPs.  It was...interesting.  I was in Bible study for a while and when a younger woman would start, one of the women who was in her 70s and lost her husband at about 40 would always say, "Just be glad you have one."  That usually put the lid on it.

[ocelotmom]

Part of the problem is that it is not always clear to the person involved in an unhealthy relationship that their relationship is a case where an exception ought to apply.

 

Another part is that you can't always say "I need such-and-such privacy measure because I don't feel our relationship is heathy." 

Edited April 30, 2017 by ocelotmom

[BlsdMama]

Hm.  I assume if I tell my friend something it is the same as telling her husband.  I just assume married couples talk about all things.  I cannot fathom having a locked phone without dh having access or vice versa.  Why in the world would I need that?  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Hm. I assume if I tell my friend something it is the same as telling her husband. I just assume married couples talk about all things. I cannot fathom having a locked phone without dh having access or vice versa. Why in the world would I need that?

In this thread and the other related thread, your lack of understanding that different couples can do things differently that you do is rather offensive. Perhaps it would be better to focus on sharing what works for you and your husband instead.

[marbel]

Hm.  I assume if I tell my friend something it is the same as telling her husband.  I just assume married couples talk about all things.  I cannot fathom having a locked phone without dh having access or vice versa.  Why in the world would I need that?  

 

But I can also ask:  why in the world would I ever need access to my husband's phone?   

 

I understand why people might find it useful/convenient/comforting to have access to their spouse's phone/other passwords, even though I don't feel the same way myself.  I don't think it's so hard to understand either point of view.

[Tess in the Burbs]

secrets do destroy marriages if a spouse wants access to the info and one withholds it.  

DH and I have free access to phones and emails if we want it.  However, even if you directly ask a spouse a question there are often ways to answer that is still truth, but not the entire truth.  I know.  People know how to hide things, so if a spouse is hiding something you probably won't find out for awhile, even if you ask directly.  Wording is so important when people answer questions and I've been deceived before.  You have to ask specific things to get truthful answers.  

I have been told things many times from friends and then be asked not to share with my DH.  I honor that request.  I suppose if it were something my DH needed to know, I would ask my friend when I could share.  I value my friendships though and even with permission to share I don't always tell DH everything someone told me.  He might not care, so I don't waste time worrying about if he knows or not.  

If your friend won't believe you will be quiet about her stuff to your DH what kind of friendship is it?  I get it, she assumes you will tell, but is your word not good enough?  Maybe tell her you don't have the same share all relationship with your dh and see if she's more open with you.  On the other hand, respecting her desire not to share should be honored as well.  Just seems like a weird friendship if she doesn't trust you to keep her secrets. 

 

 

[IsabelC]

I assume that if I tell a married person anything, they may share that information with their spouse.  I don't necessarily think they should do that, and I don't take "don't tell anyone" to mean "don't tell anyone except your dh", but I find it safer to operate under that assumption.