Need sources to begin investigation of creation vs. evolution-CC

[Julpost]

I don't even know where to begin and talk about a complicated subject! I want to have an informed opinion but am completely overwhelmed...I'm hoping someone can recommend sources to begin with that will help me to understand both sides. Maybe easy, for kids, type of books and then as I get the basics down, I can graduate to the more complex. Any help?

Thanks!

[Dirtroad]

answersingenesis.org

[Jane in NC]

Available as a free download from the National Academy of Sciences, Science, Evolution and Creationism.

[calandalsmom]

Im going to tactfully suggest AIG may not be a good source of scientific peer reviewed info on this topic.

 

Why not head to the children's non fic section of your library and look up some books on the topic.

 

I think its great to want to investigate this. Unfortunately it seems to be a hard issue for christians to look at rationally.

[Angel]

I'm not sure what your reason is for the study...are you hoping to find answers to back up what you believe about creationism OR are you trying to figure out which you believe, creationism or evolution?

 

Answers in Genesis is a great resource for creationism, but it also can be overwhelming. "The New Answers Book" by Ken Ham answers a lot of questions about creationism, probably the most popular ones. If you don't want a "biased" opinion, you could look into the video "Expelled" by Ben Stein. He is Jewish and has researched Intelligent Design, not creationism, just the fact that there could be an intelligent designer. He speaks with many professors that teach and believe evolution. The kids book "It Couldn't Just Happen" by Lawrence Richards is similar to the Ken Ham book, but not as in depth, and not by Answers in Genesis (at least to my knowledge).

 

I know that one of the atheists Ben Stein interviews is Richard Dawkins. He wrote a book called "The God Delusion" and I would suspect that it is as far away from creationism that you can get. I haven't read it, though, and won't, but I suppose it is as much for evolution as you could get.

 

Good Luck.

[dangermom]

I'll have to think about this and come back (my husband, who has done a lot of reading, is currently napping) but for now I'll just say that it's my understanding that Expelled isn't unbiased at all.

 

It would be helpful to know more about what you are looking for. There's quite a lot this year celebrating Darwin--you could look at Charlie's Playhouse for some neat toys and materials, you could read Origin of Species, etc.

[Mamagistra]

 

This is great place to start. :001_smile:

[Julie in Austin]

If you don't want a "biased" opinion, you could look into the video "Expelled" by Ben Stein.

 

Not only do I think that Expelled is extremely biased, it is more about the side issue of teaching intelligent design in schools than the main issue of creationism/ID versus evolution itself.

 

I think it is safe to say that there are no "unbiased" sources--everyone has an opinion. If I were trying to make up my mind about the issue, I'd seek sources from lots of different angles.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I don't even know where to begin and talk about a complicated subject! I want to have an informed opinion but am completely overwhelmed...I'm hoping someone can recommend sources to begin with that will help me to understand both sides. Maybe easy, for kids, type of books and then as I get the basics down, I can graduate to the more complex. Any help?

Thanks!

 

I found the book The Language of God by Francis Collins helpful for thinking about evolution and Christianity. The author is a Christian scientist who believes in evolution.

 

Phillip Johnson has been writing about problems he sees in the way evolution is presented and explained (for example, he objects to the idea that moths changing color is useful in justifying change from one species to another). I would say that his books were some of the more popular titles on the subject in Christian circles 10-15 years ago. Darwin on Trial was one of the more popular. I would say it contains many of the popular objections to evolution.

 

One of the recent issues of Smithsonian had several articles on evolution. I think it was the March or April issue.

[elegantlion]

This is great place to start. :001_smile:

 

Thanks. :D

[dangermom]

I found the book The Language of God by Francis Collins helpful for thinking about evolution and Christianity. The author is a Christian scientist who believes in evolution.

 

 

I liked Language of God pretty well.

[Greta]

I would recommend starting with Evolution 101:

 

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_01

 

It's a very easy-to-read, straightforward explanation of basic evolutionary principles, with illustrations and diagrams to aid understanding. It starts with the definition of the word (sounds simple, but something that a lot of people misunderstand!) and goes from there.

[Kathy in MD]

Unfortunately I don't know of any good jr high level books on general evolution. But a few years ago, PBS did a series on evolution (titled Evolution) which should be good. (I missed it). Check with your library or Netflix. Also Jonathan Weiner wrote The Beak of the Finch which reports on several field studies which are finding evidence for evolution. It's a easy read for the non-scientist.

 

Once you feel you have the basics, you might read What Evolution Is by Ernst Mayr, published in 2001. It is more techinical, but includes a glossary.

 

A book I haven't read yet which may be of help to you is Scientists Confront Creationism, ed by Laurie Godfrey. This book is a series of essays where scientists explain how many of the creationists "proofs" are incorrect from a scientific stand point. I would recommend that you get a general understanding of evolution before you read this one. It's not difficult, it just doesn't give a general overview.

[iwka]

My kids started to ask more sublime questions about this topic lately. They want their "why's" answered.

 

Not long time ago I was researching my options about this topic, i.e. evolution/creationism. Personally, I was astounded at the fact that the majority of evangelical (mostly fundamentalists) American Christians are so easily persuaded to the literal "six days creation" opinion, often without even researching the non bias scientific facts. The main reason for that would be Bible interpretation and keeping consistency with the fundamentalistic approach, I think...

 

When I started to research this subject a little I realized that there is a significant difference in understanding the word "evolution", which cause a lot of misunderstanding among Christians. Just determining what actually ones believes an evolution describes resolves many conflicts... :-)

 

I have a deeply devoted Christian friend who is an Assistant Professor at University of Wisconsin-Medison and I asked her about how to approach this topic with the elementary ages kids. We were chatting about it for some time and these are some of her (private) thoughts:

I would say that nobody knows how exactly life came into being. The premordial soup etc is not scientifically grounded. However, there seems to be compelling arguments that species could evolve from each other (based on DNA). I will tell you about it more in a moment. The point I'm trying to make here is that I think it is very important to encourage your kids to think for themselves and that it's okay not to understand everything. I believe there is only one truth and it is beautiful because it came from God. There are different paths to the truths, but they do not contradict one another. Even if for a time being it seems that opinions are polarized, ultimately science and Christian faith are not in conflict. Believing in who God is and that He created science is a safe vessel to sail in through the waters of confusion and current lack of complete understanding.

 

Too many times I have seen Christian kids not understanding that God gave us our brains and that our faith should involve our intellects as well. Once these kids are faced with the theory of evolution, which is taught as if it was a fact, they more often than I would like become cynical about their faith. I don't know if I can emphasize enough how important it is to make kids aware that Christianity engages every aspect of a human being, including the spirit and the mind.

 

Now, young earth creationists had done more harm to the Christian image than most groups. They deny scientific facts about the age of the earth. The Bible is not a scientific document. It is the truth and it is consistent with science, but it is not where you would go to learn about science. Premordial soup is a myth and Richard Dawkins is a bulley. You may want to read "Darwin on Trial" by Phillip Johnson. I don't necessary agree with everything he says, but he makes excellent points. For instance he explains the paleontological evidence (or lack thereof). There is not enough evidence in paleontology to support evolution. You need to be aware though that it is not where modern science is drawing its evidence for evolution from. They still teach it because they fundamentally believe evolution is true and therefore they conclude it has to be true that there are transitional species etc. However, you don't have enough evidence in paleontology if you don't start with the initial assumption that evolution is true. Modern science bases its confidence in evolution theory on DNA sequencing (molecular clocks etc). A book that I was given my colleague on the topic is "The Making of the Fittest: DNA and the Ultimate Forensic Record of Evolution" by Sean B. Carroll. The friend who gave it to me is an evolutionary biologist and he thinks the book is very strong. I started reading it and it was hard for me to get through the "agenda" that clearly the author tries to push through. That is not to say that he doesn't have important points to make. I am still looking into that to understand it for myself.

 

I would say that a majority of my friends who are Christians and scientists believe that God created life (maybe DNA) and that He oversaw the process of evolution. Not necessarily that these people went through the evidence themselves, but simply because most of these people don't think that whether species evolved from one another or were created as they are now bears any effect on who God is and how He interact with us. God is who the Bible says He is. Science will unfold itself and will come closer to the truth. As a Christian, I love science because it brings us closer to understanding to who God is and how He put the Universe in place. It's a mystery and a beautiful quest. Science is not threatening, even if it is not exactly clear how it interacts with faith on certain aspects.

 

There are also different points of view. You might be interested in looking at some books (or website) by Hugh Ross (http://reasons.org/). It's an interesting perspective.

 

Personally, I'm still looking into the DNA evidence to decide for myself, so I currently don't have a definitive opinion.

 

Good luck figuring it out and talking with your kids!

The main problem in this topic for the Christians is, IMHO, the correlation of theology and science, and there are not many people on this earth who are confident enough to even address this topic. I know of one man (who is a genius, I think) and knowledgeable enough to go from one field to another (theology, science). His name is Michael Heller, cosmologist and a philosopher, 2008 Templeton Prize winner, he writes and teaches in five languages:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13454-qa-2008-templeton-prize-winner.html

 

The one book that I enjoyed greatly reading about the beauty of creation and was easy to read (probably high school reading level) is this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Evidential-Power-Beauty-Science-Theology/dp/0898707528

 

As for Expelled, it's interesting to watch, but evolution/creationism debate was pushed aside, as the main theme evolved around freedom of speech in the US.

 

Anyway, my friend sent me also a book that is readable for dialectic stage (I think, although my upper grammar kids were screening it and reading whatever they could) is:

http://www.amazon.com/Science-Evolution-Creationism-National-Sciences/dp/0309105862

 

These are my stumble upon pages on creation/evolution/old earth/intelligent design etc. that I am intending to look through:

http://majorchange.stumbleupon.com/tag/evolution/

 

I don't know if that helps you:glare:, but I think it is fascinating to teach kids science in our age of constant discoveries...

[Mom-to-three-sons]

I have to agree with the mother who said that there is no such thing as an unbiased opinion. PLEASE - if you believe nothing else - do believe that.

 

Two more things to keep in mind:

 

Evolution is a Theory. It has not been proven, ever. Creation has never been proven, either, so I suppose. [i have to say it that way, because I personally believe I have seen all the proof I ever need; it's everywhere around us, IMO.] I realize and respect the fact that each person is entitled to believe and accept what he or she deems the truth. That said, since it comes down to what we believe, Evolution is just as much a belief system as is Creation. Evolution represents one's religion; Creation represents one's religion.

 

It is logical to follow that since neither has been proven, that both are theories, and that the decision to accept one or another comes down to one's biases or beliefs, the science of neither is without error. In other words, how do you trust the fallible science of either persuasion: evolution? or creation? especially if you are trying to use this science as the basis for coming to a decision of what, in essence, is absolute truth?

 

Who, in all the history or the future of mankind do you trust to deliver the absolute answer to that extremely controversial question (creation or evolution)? I guess what I am asking is, "By what means would you decide which man (and his accompanying theory) to believe?" Every person has an opinion. Medical Doctors "practice" medicine, based on what they believe to be true. Doctors who hold a Ph.D. maintain a philosophy on one subject or another. In the end, you have to decide who to believe or what to believe.

 

Definitions of Philosophy:

 

 

• a belief (or system of beliefs) accepted as authoritative by some group or school
  
• the rational investigation of questions about existence and knowledge and ethics
  
• any personal belief about how to live or how to deal with a situation
  

 

I hope this makes sense. I applaud you for seeking an answer, for seeking "truth". We each have suggested resources, but they are all biased choices, IMHO, based on what we each believe. My list of resources below are no exception, but I certainly hope that something will make a difference for you. I hope you find what you are searching for.

 

Here are the resources I might suggest:

 

Darwin's Black Box - This might be a source that would present both sides, but I understand that it is pretty intense reading.

http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=type&ID=7 - free newsletter

Evidence that Demands a Verdict (Josh McDowell)

 

What is Creation Science? (Gary Parker and Henry Morris)

 

Dinosaurs and the Bible (David Unfred) is a book written for children that actually contains the photo taken of a Plesiosaur, by fishermen, off the coast of New Zealand in April of 1977. That leaves one with lots of questions about the whole idea that dinosaurs only lived millions or billions of years ago.

 

http://www.nwcreation.net/mtsthelenslinks.html - resources on Mt St Helens. I wish I could remember the name of the man who spoke of Mt St Helens on a video we once owned. His manner of presentation certainly lacked luster, but his presentation of facts alone (based on the 1980 eruption of Mt St Helens) refutes the theory that the Grand Canyon had to have taken thousands of years to be formed.

 

What is Creation Science? (above) is a resource my husband has found particularly fascinating.

[mazakaal]

If you want a Biblical study of the various theories, in other words, 'How do these theories line up with the Bible?' the Precept Ministries study Genesis 1 is wonderful.

[Dirtroad]

Im going to tactfully suggest AIG may not be a good source of scientific peer reviewed info on this topic.

 

Why not head to the children's non fic section of your library and look up some books on the topic.

 

I think its great to want to investigate this. Unfortunately it seems to be a hard issue for christians to look at rationally.

 

OP seemed to imply that she wanted ALL sides. This, to me, included Intellegient Design, Evolutionist, and Creationist... possibly even other ideas.

 

Insults to those who believe in creationism and a literal interpretation of Genesis were unnecessary.

 

As for no rationality... I have a master's degree in physiology from a major US liberal university. I have enough sense, science background, & rationality to read & understand... and actually make a decision not guided by the masses or pressures, etc.

 

Ken Hamm and others (but I could not quickly remember the websites to post) have superb arguments, data, and examples. They just disagree with the current mainstream ideas. BTW - many of these ideas are taught as fact and are only theories with NO evidence. There is plenty of room for debate. And, always remember, evolution explains changes... but has never explained the beginning. You can't start with enzymes, electricity & dirt.... who made the dirt?

 

Sorry, but the "tactful" comments were not tactful and completely insulting. I was only trying to offer her a resource for her research.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Dirtroad

[Laura Corin]

Evolution is a Theory. It has not been proven, ever. Creation has never been proven, either, so I suppose. [i have to say it that way, because I personally believe I have seen all the proof I ever need; it's everywhere around us, IMO.] I realize and respect the fact that each person is entitled to believe and accept what he or she deems the truth. That said, since it comes down to what we believe, Evolution is just as much a belief system as is Creation. Evolution represents one's religion; Creation represents one's religion.

 

 

There is the general use of 'theory' to mean 'something that is not proven' and then there is the scientific use of 'theory' to mean:

 

"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world. The theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory." It is as factual an explanation of the universe as the atomic theory of matter or the germ theory of disease. Our understanding of gravity is still a work in progress. But the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is an accepted fact." (US National Academy of Sciences)

 

Laura

[fivetails]

I read a neat book recently, borrowed from a library:

 

The Young Earth: The Real History of the Earth - Past, Present, and Future

 

Hope that link works (it's google books) so you can 'see' it.. it's also on amazon too but that's an older version, I think.

 

It was interesting - well, some of it anyway. Other parts were kinda dry & boring.. but it had a few interesting things to say.

 

Of course, that's more 'age of the earth' than 'creation vs evolution' .. but I figured I'd toss it in here anyway, 'case anyone was interested. :)

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

The Source by John Clayton, former atheist, high school science teacher, old earth.

 

doesgodexist.org is his website. He puts out a free bimonthly magazine, all you have to do is request it.

 

The magazines are great small, easy to read. He speaks respectfully.

[calandalsmom]

OP seemed to imply that she wanted ALL sides. This, to me, included Intellegient Design, Evolutionist, and Creationist... possibly even other ideas.

 

Insults to those who believe in creationism and a literal interpretation of Genesis were unnecessary.

 

As for no rationality... I have a master's degree in physiology from a major US liberal university. I have enough sense, science background, & rationality to read & understand... and actually make a decision not guided by the masses or pressures, etc.

 

Ken Hamm and others (but I could not quickly remember the websites to post) have superb arguments, data, and examples. They just disagree with the current mainstream ideas. BTW - many of these ideas are taught as fact and are only theories with NO evidence. There is plenty of room for debate. And, always remember, evolution explains changes... but has never explained the beginning. You can't start with enzymes, electricity & dirt.... who made the dirt?

 

Sorry, but the "tactful" comments were not tactful and completely insulting. I was only trying to offer her a resource for her research.

 

 

Excuse me????

[Marylou]

Excuse me????

 

Unfortunately it seems to be a hard issue for christians to look at rationally.

 

Do you mean all Christians? or some? And how do you know this? I think that's what the other poster sees as insulting.

[WishboneDawn]

 

 

Evolution is a Theory. It has not been proven, ever. Creation has never been proven, either, so I suppose. [i have to say it that way, because I personally believe I have seen all the proof I ever need; it's everywhere around us, IMO.] I realize and respect the fact that each person is entitled to believe and accept what he or she deems the truth. That said, since it comes down to what we believe, Evolution is just as much a belief system as is Creation. Evolution represents one's religion; Creation represents one's religion.

 

 

IF you ever read a creation science book or article that asserts the, "It's just a theory," idea then you can immediately put the book down and dismiss it. It shows a very basic misunderstanding of scientific terms and if a text can't even use basic terms correctly then it's not science.

 

The scientific equivelent of what you've described is an hypothesis. That's an idea that you set out to test to see if the evidence supports it.

 

A theory is formed to explain the evidence that already exists. In the case of evolution that's the fossil record, scientific laws, the diversity and patterns of life.

 

Some people think theories are like baby laws or that laws are theories that have been proven. That's wrong. Laws are basically observations. They tell you the what but not the how. Theories are the how.

 

Gravity is a good example that shows the contrast between laws and theories. We have a Law of Gravity. We can drop an object and observe that law. But we have no good Theory of Gravity. We have no universally accepted idea of how gravity works. In that respect a Theory of Gravity is on much shakier ground then the Theory of Natural Selection ever was.

 

Calling a scientific theory just a theory is a dangerous practice. We split atoms and pipe electricity into our homes and combat infections on the basis of scientific theories and it's irresponsible to debase the meanings of scientific terms in support of sophistry. By undermining scientific terms we undermine science and much of the good we derive from it.

 

It also excuses creation scientists from coming up with an alternate scientific theory that would explain the mountain of evidence we have in terms of the fossil record, genetics, etc. But then I sometimes wonder if that's the point.

 

I've had some fantastic debates with creationists and at times they've been eye-opening and insightful. Usually the best have been ones centered on mutual understanding and the more spiritual aspects of a creationist viewpoint. I've gained a lot of respect for some creationists. But arguments that misrepresent basic science are not helpful.

[calandalsmom]

Do you mean all Christians? or some? And how do you know this? I think that's what the other poster sees as insulting.

 

I mean exactly what I said. One would have to be a very delicate flower indeed to be insulted by that post.

[Marylou]

I mean exactly what I said. One would have to be a very delicate flower indeed to be insulted by that post.

 

So what you mean is that all Christians have a hard time looking at the issue of creation/evolution rationally?

[calandalsmom]

So what you mean is that all Christians have a hard time looking at the issue of creation/evolution rationally?

 

I don't think that is what I said.

 

Unfortunately it seems to be a hard issue for christians to look at rationally.

 

rational |ˈra sh ənl; ˈra sh nəl|

adjective

1 based on or in accordance with reason or logic

Edited May 11, 2009 by calandalsmom

[WishboneDawn]

I don't think that is what I said.

 

Unfortunately it seems to be a hard issue for christians to look at rationally.

 

rational |ˈra sh ənl; ˈra sh nəl|

adjective

1 based on or in accordance with reason or logic

 

I find most people have a hard times looking at most things rationally. We're simply not a species wired to neatly excise all the irrational bits when we have to examine issues or events. I tend to think that's not a bad thing.

 

Regardless, I think your statement is as useful as most overarching generalizations are. Not very. It plays to the myth that Christians are a homogeneous group which, from some of the True Christian debates that go on here, is pretty obviously not the case. :)

[Marylou]

I don't think that is what I said.

 

Unfortunately it seems to be a hard issue for christians to look at rationally.

 

rational |ˈra sh ənl; ˈra sh nəl|

adjective

1 based on or in accordance with reason or logic

 

But no need for definitions ;). I know what rational means.

[Angel]

I just wanted to explain by "biased" comment. I simply meant that Answers in Genesis is quite obviously right wing, fundamental, born again Christianity. They are definitely "biased" toward creationism. Completely. I look at Ben Stein, who does not fall under the fundamental, born again Christianity title, as a man looking for answers but not out with an agenda for the creationist movement. Therefore, I find his movie less "biased" towards the creationist/evolution debate. I hope this explains what I was trying to say.

 

By the way, I would love for the OP to post back about what she was looking for before this post gets out of hand.

[Alice]

I really enjoyed Language of God by Francis Collins. He definitely believes in evolution but it's a wonderful explanation of how he reconciles that belief with his very traditional Christian faith.

 

A book I found helpful in explaining the different views is Science and Chrisitanity: Four Views edited by Richard Carlson. It doesn't exactly delineate the different views on the origins of life but it looks at the relationship between Science and Christianity as seen from different viewpoints : Creationist (in this book primarily young-Earth 7-Day creationism) , "Qualified Agreement" (essentially what they call Intelligent Design), Independence (which is the view that science and faith are separate spheres and don't really interact, and Partnership (basically Theistic Evolution...although I'm simplfying things a bit). The structure of the book is it is written by 4 authors, each representing one of these views. There is a chapter where each author writes an explanation of their view followed by a brief answer from each of the other views.

 

I'm not explaining it particularly well and the book has some problems. Because of the structure no view is fully explained. But it's one of the only ones I have found that have really explained the different viewpoints from the perspective of those who hold those views. It's a good starting place for reading about the issue, I think, especially if your purpose is to try and understand what the different ideas about the origins of life are.

[calandalsmom]

I find most people have a hard times looking at most things rationally. We're simply not a species wired to neatly excise all the irrational bits when we have to examine issues or events. I tend to think that's not a bad thing.

 

Regardless, I think your statement is as useful as most overarching generalizations are. Not very. It plays to the myth that Christians are a homogeneous group which, from some of the True Christian debates that go on here, is pretty obviously not the case. :)

 

I dont think it does imply anything of the sort. And I am well aware of the diversity of christian thought on the matter. Especially given that I am a christian who finds little trouble combining a belief in God with a scientific understanding of the theory of evolution.

 

AIG is not a peer reviewed or scientific source for information about anything. It is religious dogma, which may or may not suit your particular brand of christianity. And that was the sole point of my post.

[fivetails]

 

By the way, I would love for the OP to post back about what she was looking for before this post gets out of hand.

 

Yeah - maybe everyone should commit to keeping this thread as a list of sources for the OP, rather than a debate about the issue (or about the sources) ... since that *is* what she asked for. ;)

 

I'm hoping someone can recommend sources to begin with that will help me to understand both sides.

[Marylou]

I also am enjoying seeing the variety of sources that have been listed. Great thread.

 

I do not enjoy/appreciate someone saying ALL Christians do or think thus and so. Especially when it comes to thinking rationally about a certain topic. And BTW I am not a not a very delicate flower :).

 

Just would like to know (I'll start a thread perhaps) where folks get their info to make such sweeping generalizations. That's what I find unfortunate.

[pooh bear]

Something that we have enjoyed is a series of lectures by Richard Dawkins, that he gave back in the 1990s. They are available to watch on YouTube.

 

Growing Up in the Universe

 

This series from PBS is very good as well. You can get the DVDs from Netflix. The PBS site has lots of teaching ideas

 

Evolution

[pooh bear]

A couple of books, on the evolution side of the coin are these

 

The Sandwalk Adventures

This is a graphic novel, that tells the story of evolution in 5 chapters. My ds loves this book.

The Blind Watchmaker

 

The God Delusion

[WishboneDawn]

I dont think it does imply anything of the sort. And I am well aware of the diversity of christian thought on the matter. Especially given that I am a christian who finds little trouble combining a belief in God with a scientific understanding of the theory of evolution.

 

AIG is not a peer reviewed or scientific source for information about anything. It is religious dogma, which may or may not suit your particular brand of christianity. And that was the sole point of my post.

 

And you know, I was thinking about your post after and it occured to me that there was probably more truth then I acknowledged. When I was a church going Christian there probably were concerns not entirely rational that went into my thinking about evolution (even having no trouble with accepting it)...And I still don't think that's a bad thing but I DO think I didn't give your statement the thought it deserved.

[WishboneDawn]

Yeah - maybe everyone should commit to keeping this thread as a list of sources for the OP, rather than a debate about the issue (or about the sources) ... since that *is* what she asked for. ;)

 

Oops. Will do. :blush:

[fivetails]

Oops. Will do. :blush:

 

:toetap05:

 

 

:001_tt2:

 

 

 

:D

 

 

You have no idea how much I miss the ocean. RAWR. Lick a seashell for me.

[Spy Car]

Im going to tactfully suggest AIG may not be a good source of scientific peer reviewed info on this topic.

 

:iagree:

 

Have you heard of a STRAW-MAN fallacy?

 

A straw man fallacy is committed when an advocate for a position misrepresents his or her opponents argument in order to refute it by making it seem implausible, or weaker than it really is, and then argues against the re-cast (deliberately misrepresented) "version" rather than the opponent's actual position.

 

AiG through exaggeration, misquotation (or using small "quotes" out of context), and other forms of distortion attempts to "refute" evolution though persistent use of the straw-man fallacy.

 

The Theory of Evolution presented in AiG materials is a completely distorted and dishonest representation of what the Theory holds.

 

AiG also falsely tries to tie "evolution" to things such as "eugenics", racism and other abdominal things take have nothing what-so-ever to do with evolution.

 

They even sent out materials on Darwin's birthday taking a word out of context and tried to paint Charles Darwin as a racist (there was a thread here about it that when on for untold pages). Of course it wasn't true, but AiG will engage in any sort of misrepresentation and dishonest tactics to "win" it's argument. Even slander.

 

Don't look to AiG if you want to find a scientifically respectable discussion of evolution. Because you won't find it.

 

Bill

Edited May 11, 2009 by Spy Car

[OnTheBrink]

The OP asked for resources, not critiques on resources suggested. This garbage gets old.

[Spy Car]

The OP (Julpost) stated she wanted "an informed opinion".

 

She surely will will not get to that objective by using materials from AiG, and it is a courtesy to let her know that up front, especially since AiG materials have been suggested as "good" resources.

 

Bill

Edited May 11, 2009 by Spy Car

[BikeBookBread]

I'm not sure what "camp" you fall in, but if you are interested in a scientific, rational, Christian (not evolutionary, though not young earth) approach, Reasons to Believe recently launched a study curriculum. If you are not familiar with Reasons to Believe, it was founded by Hugh Ross, who was a post-doctoral research scientist at Cal-Tech. Quite a few of his books have been published by NavPress (just so that you know his organization is a reputable, trustable Christian source.....) Some of his writings are WAAAAAY beyond anything I could ever fully understand...it is HIGHLY scientific and very well written. However, even though it is heady stuff, he makes it very readable and this right-brained English Lit lover gets the gist of it at least, and is very appealling to a scientific mind.

 

I had a similar question, but for little tots. I wanted to start them out on a good, sound scientific foundation, but our challenge is that we do not subscribe to a strictly YE (young earth) viewpoint. It has been almost impossible to find anything, and we're going to have to improvise, although I found a little bit of info thanks to this board :)

 

I also found this blog by a very intelligent homeschooling mom who happens to be a theologian and scientist in her own right. She is the one who led me to the RBT curriculum (we'll just have to keep it in mind for the coming years). If you have any questions about the RTB curriculum, e-mail her...she is more than willing to answer your questions!

 

I agree with a previous poster, and respectfully suggest you might investigate curriculum beyond Answers in Genesis/Ken Ham.

[Rosy]

 

http://www.icr.org/ is another creation science resource you may look into.

[FlockOfSillies]

I'm more or less in your boat, Julpost. I started by getting a few books by Hugh Ross at Reasons to Believe (OE creationist). I finished More Than a Theory a while back (some of the details were over my head, but overall, a very intriguing book) and A Matter of Days (dealing with the Genesis interpretations) is sitting on my shelf. The first title I bought, though, was Lights in the Sky and Little Green Men (about UFOs). I really enjoyed that one.

[BikeBookBread]

I'm more or less in your boat, Julpost. I started by getting a few books by Hugh Ross at Reasons to Believe (OE creationist). I finished More Than a Theory a while back (some of the details were over my head, but overall, a very intriguing book) and A Matter of Days (dealing with the Genesis interpretations) is sitting on my shelf. The first title I bought, though, was Lights in the Sky and Little Green Men (about UFOs). I really enjoyed that one.

 

Hey Flock of Sillies, I just e-mailed my friend who is a volunteer apologist with Reasons to try and get some book ideas (at least) for little kiddoes. I'll PM you if I find anything out (I think you responded to my blog post a few back about OE science for little kiddoes)

[iwka]

Young- and Old-Earth Creationists: Can We Even Talk Together?

 

http://www.sonlight.com/young_or_old_earth.html

 

...apparently they also experience difficulties in talking about the subject...

[BikeBookBread]

Young- and Old-Earth Creationists: Can We Even Talk Together?

 

http://www.sonlight.com/young_or_old_earth.html

 

...apparently they also experience difficulties in talking about the subject...

 

GOOD article...though I did skim it because the girlies are getting squirrely, and I think I've used up all of my "computer points" this morning :lol:

 

I guess the WTM boards aren't going to solve a question that has been debated for thousands of years amongst Jewish and Christian scholars, huh?

[ClassicMom]

We did a study of this in Jr. High. This is the curriculum that we used. However, this study is from the young earth, creation based side. From your post, you would want to balance it with something from the other side to get opposing viewpoints. We just used library books.

 

http://www.bookpeddler.us/product/Creation-or-Evolution-A-Home-Study-Curriculum/Creation-Science

[Mommy22alyns]

I

Darwin's Black Box - This might be a source that would present both sides, but I understand that it is pretty intense reading.

 

 

 

 

Intense as in difficult, dense material, or emotionally intense?

[Julpost]

Wowsa!!

That's why I love coming to this group for answers. I learned quite a bit just reading through all of the replies. The list of resources, articles, etc....I'm so excited to get started, thanks guys!

 

I hadn't thought about the fact that there probably isn't an unbiased source out there. I've been very confused about what each side really believes, not just what the opposing side claims. I started wading through a ton of stuff online last night and as my eyes started glazing over, I thought maybe I should start at the beginning. What do I believe about the Bible? I read somewhere that there is a second account of creation in another book in the Bible that is slightly different. So that might be a good place to start. I'd have to see that for myself. It would help me answer whether I should take the Bible figuratively or literally. I hear about all sorts of "facts", here, there, and everywhere...it would be impossible for me to track them all down and determine the level of truth in them.

 

Anyway, that's where I am right now. I've been thinking about this very topic this moring as I was cleaning out my refrigerator and now that my little one has fallen asleep in my lap, I think I can do a little studying before helping the older kids w/their history and then doing some outdoor chores. There simply isn't enough time in a day.....

 

I also believe that since I've prayed for wisdom that God will lead me. That's a huge burden lifted from my shoulders. Imagine if I had to figure it all out on my own!