Help me to have a suitable reply ready for my manager

[Hannah]

From 1 July my team and I have been allocated to a new manager. He is a VP in our corporate and known to be a misogynistic, condescending, micro-managing nightmare.  They weren’t wrong. 

We will only see him once a week, but I know that at some point he’s again going to ask me or one of my (female) team members to fetch him coffee. He’s also on a number of occasions had his secretary phone a previous subordinate and ordered her to go and buy him food from the canteen.

He’s already tried the coffee making thing and I just said, “Let’s all go to the kitchen  and everyone get coffee before the meeting starts”.

It’s going to happen again and I want to be ready with an answer to (seemingly) politely decline these requests. 

Or do you think they are reasonable requests??

In nearly 30 years of corporate life I’ve never had a manager like this before and it’s certainly not my style with my own team. 

 

Edited July 23 by Hannah

[KungFuPanda]

“Sir, coffee fetching isn’t remotely in my job description, so I’m going to respectfully decline that request in perpetuity.”

Preferably delivered in a tone of amused disbelief. 

[Hannah]

3 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

“Sir, coffee fetching isn’t remotely in my job description, so I’m going to respectfully decline that request in perpetuity.”

Preferably delivered in a tone of amused disbelief. 

Is “I dont believe we’ve agreed coffee fetching as a Key Performance Area?” with a wry a smile going to work?

[Hyacinth]

“Get your own damn coffee.”

(Not helpful. Sorry.)

[Hannah]

36 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

“Get your own damn coffee.”

(Not helpful. Sorry.)

I’m working really hard at biting back what’s on the tip of my tongue 😀! 
 

 

Edited July 23 by Hannah

[Arcadia]

When I was working in Asia, it was common for secretaries to help get coffee for the boss and the clients for meetings. However, the bosses tend to get their own coffee for department meetings unless they are running late. 
My former department secretary and I like our coffee strong. My former boss doesn’t mind but the engineers had to dilute the coffee or risk heart palpitations. 
I think coffee requests are reasonable if they are politely worded and the person can take no for an answer. My former boss would ask if I could grab him a coffee on my way to the work site but he isn’t offended if I can’t or won’t. 

[KungFuPanda]

What’s your tolerance for uncomfortable silence? It might be time to lean in with “No” as a complete sentence. Can you say no and watch him react? I’d be tempted to say no, listen to the bluster, get up and get a cup of coffee, then sit down and drink it while looking at him. Can your group present a united front? Do you have a weak link that will cave? 
 

I told my old boss that “that is not a service I provide” and that he’d need to hire an executive assistant if he wanted someone who will provide personal services in addition to professional ones. 

[Arcadia]

8 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

“Get your own damn coffee.”

(Not helpful. Sorry.)

“I am sure the Keurig/Neopresso machine is user friendly” (kidding)

When working, my former secretary and I had just directed people to the coffee machine when colleagues asked for coffee. 

[Hannah]

21 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

What’s your tolerance for uncomfortable silence? It might be time to lean in with “No” as a complete sentence. Can you say no and watch him react? I’d be tempted to say no, listen to the bluster, get up and get a cup of coffee, then sit down and drink it while looking at him. Can your group present a united front? Do you have a weak link that will cave? 
 

I told my old boss that “that is not a service I provide” and that he’d need to hire an executive assistant if he wanted someone who will provide personal services in addition to professional ones. 

I’m confident, but not confrontational. My group can definitely present a united front. If we all had the same line that would be effective. 

When he gets his secretary to phone the managers on site to pick up lunch for him it puts the poor woman in such an awkward position!

Edited July 23 by Hannah

[Hannah]

16 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

“I am sure the Keurig/Neopresso machine is user friendly” (kidding)

When working, my former secretary and I had just directed people to the coffee machine when colleagues asked for coffee. 

I might tell him that I’ll show him again where the kitchen is. 
Or  “I think it’s your turn this time”.

My colleagues and I are more than happy to fetch coffee for each other, and do so regularly, but not when it’s expected. 

[Carol in Cal.]

I’d pick a guy and say, “It’s Jerry’s turn.”  And either change the subject or walk away.  

[Indigo Blue]

“I’m sorry. I won’t have time to go for coffee, but feel free to pick it up yourself. I’d like a cup of decaf, please.”

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, Hyacinth said:

“Get your own damn coffee.”

(Not helpful. Sorry.)

I would totally say "Get your own coffee." IMHO it's only the word before coffee that makes this a unprofessional statement. 

Of the reality is I'd probably respond with "Huh?" or "I don't want coffee," because I'd be so thrown off by the request. 

[bolt.]

"Coffee?" (looks over my own shoulder and around the room) "Me? No, I'm (name), I do (position) here. We don't actually have people whose job includes coffee service. We've been happy with self-serve coffee for a long time in this department."

[SKL]

Have you tried asking him to go fetch your coffee, before he gets a chance to ask you?

I think it's fine if it's a matter of saving work by having a person grab an extra coffee if s/he's walking that way, but it should be acceptable for all ranks, unless "fetch coffee" is someone's specific job description.

This sounds like a carry-over from the past, when it was absolutely normal to assume the female will go bring coffee for the men.  It's a matter of re-education.

Other possible solutions would include having a coffee carafe and mugs in the conference room so nobody is running and fetching it for a particular individual.

[SKL]

I like the idea of saying "coffee is self-serve in the break room" with a smile.

[Clarita]

2 hours ago, Hannah said:

Or do you think they are reasonable requests??

No they are not reasonable requests. I'm really surprised no one has talked to him about this behavior. 

2 hours ago, Hannah said:

He’s also on a number of occasions had his secretary phone a previous subordinate and ordered her to go and buy him food from the canteen.

You'd think his boss would address this already, because technically he's wasting company money. If he is so important that he shouldn't need to get his own food then they would ask someone to add that to their job. The company can weigh the person's wage and the time they need to take away from their other work to fetch him his food. 

[73349]

"No, thank you" might be another option.

I'm surprised, however, that no one else has mentioned making him absolutely terrible coffee no matter which person he asks. There are so many ways to help someone have an educational experience.

[SKL]

We may be applying US cultural norms to this question.  I don't know how much South African norms may differ in this regard.  In the US, you'd have to be pretty old to have grown up in an office culture that expects women to bus coffee.  (I'm 57 and this wasn't a thing when I started my professional life.)  But this change may have begun later in other countries.

[QueenCat]

4 hours ago, Arcadia said:

When I was working in Asia, it was common for secretaries to help get coffee for the boss and the clients for meetings. However, the bosses tend to get their own coffee for department meetings unless they are running late. 
My former department secretary and I like our coffee strong. My former boss doesn’t mind but the engineers had to dilute the coffee or risk heart palpitations. 
I think coffee requests are reasonable if they are politely worded and the person can take no for an answer. My former boss would ask if I could grab him a coffee on my way to the work site but he isn’t offended if I can’t or won’t. 

I don't think Hannah is a secretary.

[AmandaVT]

I'd be tempted to play a bit dumb and misinterpret the question as him offering to get me a coffee. "Oh, I hadn't thought about it, but I'd love a cup, thank you!" or "No thank you, I just finished, but thanks for offering!" 

[Hannah]

7 hours ago, SKL said:

Have you tried asking him to go fetch your coffee, before he gets a chance to ask you?

I think it's fine if it's a matter of saving work by having a person grab an extra coffee if s/he's walking that way, but it should be acceptable for all ranks, unless "fetch coffee" is someone's specific job description.

This sounds like a carry-over from the past, when it was absolutely normal to assume the female will go bring coffee for the men.  It's a matter of re-education.

Other possible solutions would include having a coffee carafe and mugs in the conference room so nobody is running and fetching it for a particular individual.

It's more than just that.  It's a part of his culture that women serve men, and they do it to this day.  There's also the history of our country's past that comes into play.  The company has let him get away with being misogynistic and disrespectful.  He seems to target the alpha female in his team, which I happen to be now.  In just three weeks he has been condescending and demeaning, even in meetings.  It comes with little digs.  For example, yesterday in a meeting he said that I, "Clearly couldn't understand the issue at hand, while [xxx, my male colleague] could".  I straight out looked at my male colleague and asked him if he'd take the action.  New boss nearly fell off his chair.  I am going to start recording meetings, because this is definitely going to escalate (recording by one party is allowed by law).  Every bit of work I've done in the last three weeks has been 'not good enough, go back and redo like this". The work we do hasn't changed, the team has just been moved under him, and I have been a star performer for 30 years.  I don't believe all of my previous managers and the merit ratification committees for senior managers were wrong.  I can't defy a direct order on a work related matter, but I want to make a stand on this issue. 

[Hannah]

7 hours ago, SKL said:

We may be applying US cultural norms to this question.  I don't know how much South African norms may differ in this regard.  In the US, you'd have to be pretty old to have grown up in an office culture that expects women to bus coffee.  (I'm 57 and this wasn't a thing when I started my professional life.)  But this change may have begun later in other countries.

There are VPs that might ask a secretary, and others I've seen ask the cleaning lady, but never a direct report.

[Hannah]

5 hours ago, QueenCat said:

I don't think Hannah is a secretary.

No, I"m a senior manager with a team of my own, reporting to a VP.

[Hannah]

I wrote above that the company has let him get away with it, but I think nobody has actually complained before.  It takes a lot to complain to HR and you open yourself up to victimisation.  Jobs are hard to come by with 42% unemployment.

[Melissa in Australia]

7 hours ago, 73349 said:

"No, thank you" might be another option.

I'm surprised, however, that no one else has mentioned making him absolutely terrible coffee no matter which person he asks. There are so many ways to help someone have an educational experience.

This.

 

[SKL]

So frustrating when they hire you a "boss" who knows you are better than they are.  This has happened to me, and it ruined things for me.  I ended up quitting.  The guy ended up being fired, but only after 5 years of incompetence and being paid a higher salary for a fraction of the productivity I had.  It's honestly the only IRL grudge I've held for more than a few days.

Do you think you could talk to his prior subordinates and get some ideas about what might help?

If you can't get this guy to respect you, you may indeed need to report his nonsense.  Good luck figuring out the right path.

[mmasc]

I’m sorry about the new boss—sounds like a real jerk. I like the suggestion to just simply say “No, thank you.”  1) It’s simple, but direct, and gets the meaning across. And 2) in the heat of the moment, it’s probably all I could actually remember to say. I picture it going down something like this—“Hey, Mmasc, grab me a coffee before the meeting starts in 5 minutes.”Me: “No, thank you.”  Done. Lol. If this happened a time or (maybe) two, and my dense boss *still* kept asking, I’d probably have to talk to someone higher up and add some more evidence (like your meeting recordings). 

[Bambam]

13 hours ago, 73349 said:

I'm surprised, however, that no one else has mentioned making him absolutely terrible coffee no matter which person he asks. There are so many ways to help someone have an educational experience.

I actually did this once. First, I don't drink coffee, and although I had watched my parents make coffee, I'd never done it. 
Female Engineer just starting my first job in major company but very Texas male-dominated location with mostly older guys. Someone asked if I would make the community coffee one morning. Typically the first person there made coffee, so I didn't think that request was out of line as I was often the first person there. 
So I did. I was pretty sure you were supposed to empty out the leftover grounds, but I decided not too. And I didn't know how much coffee to add, so I just threw on several scoops - almost filled that filter to the top. Added water, walked away. 
Someone asked me about the coffee. I said something along the lines, oh, was it okay? I don't drink coffee and I have no idea how to make it. 
No one ever asked me to do anything with coffee again. 
And I also learned the stare and silence when anyone suggested anything I thought was out of line. These guys would back down and apologize because they realized A. It was out of line and B. I wasn't going along with their foolishness. 
I do not know if this would work on a dedicated idiot though. 

Humor can work sometimes too. One new contractor asked me once what they got me for secretary's day (it was secretary's day). Poor guy was clueless. I just looked at him, smiled, and told him, "Nothing. They don't think I am a good secretary." and returned to work. I'm pretty sure the other guys filled him in, and he avoided me forever. 

[SKL]

56 minutes ago, Bambam said:

Humor can work sometimes too. One new contractor asked me once what they got me for secretary's day (it was secretary's day). Poor guy was clueless. I just looked at him, smiled, and told him, "Nothing. They don't think I am a good secretary." and returned to work. I'm pretty sure the other guys filled him in, and he avoided me forever. 

Haha my fellow female managers and I happened to take our [male] bank representative out to lunch on Secretary's Day.  The waiter complimented our guest on what a great boss he was for taking his secretaries out.  It got a good laugh.  😛

The bad coffee trick may work if it's only being drunk by the new boss.  Though, I have a story where being dumb about making stuff worked the other way.  I was asked to bartend at my oldest brother's wedding.  I don't even drink, let alone have any idea about mixing drinks.  I was told, "don't worry, people will tell you how to make the drinks."  So people lied about how much liquor was supposed to go in.  I'm sure it's still a great family joke.  I may have even been asked to bartend at my second brother's wedding.  😛

But in this case it might backfire another way.  The new boss seems to enjoy implying that OP is stupid.  I could see him adding "too dumb to make coffee" or "insubordinate" to his list of criticisms.  I would rather find another option that doesn't give him space to attack her.

[Bambam]

55 minutes ago, SKL said:

But in this case it might backfire another way.  The new boss seems to enjoy implying that OP is stupid.  I could see him adding "too dumb to make coffee" or "insubordinate" to his list of criticisms.  I would rather find another option that doesn't give him space to attack her.

Valid point. I didn't consider that. 

[Carol in Cal.]

Given the new information, I’d just say, “I don’t do coffee runs.”  

[freesia]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Given the new information, I’d just say, “I don’t do coffee runs.”  

Yes, me, too. Or, like someone said upthread, say—oh, coffee is self-serve here. Just say it all calmly yet firmly. 

[elegantlion]

Think of it like training a dog - who probably would catch on sooner. Use simple language, repeated as necessary with no overexplanation or hedging language. I like the comment that coffee is self-serve in this department. Then stare with a quizzical look.