s/o Reciprocating invitations

[Sunshine State Sue]

I'm a shy extrovert. I grew up in a big family and enjoy gatherings, large and small, though I do prefer smaller. I enjoy talking to and getting to know people, though I joke that being married to an introvert and working from home (thankfully part-time now), I am losing the fine art of conversation. I sometimes tell people that I need to practice my conversation skills.

Dh is an introvert. I once told a counselor that I would like to trade him in for the extroverted model. It makes me sad, and I feel that my world is smaller because I am married to him. I realized many years ago that he would not be able to satisfy my social needs, and I do my best to get those needs met on my own. To be clear, dh has other redeeming qualities. I say he can speak to the POTUS or a homeless person and you wouldn't know the difference. Me, not so much.

I also prefer the company of women to men. If you invited me/us to to parties over and over again, I would try to develop a one-on-one relationship with you. I am very proactive about developing and maintaining friendships. I am the one inviting people to a picnic or a local play or a local concert or for a walk.  Our home is also my home and I do invite people over. If it's girlfriends I invite over, dh will say hello and retreat to his man cave typically. He rarely wants to socialize with groups, though I must say that since he retired 3 years ago and we moved to an active 55+ community, he's been so much more social, and I am much happier with our social life. I sometimes think he gets more invitations than me. He is involved in more activities and meets more people than me.

You have expressed this sentiment (of non-reciprocation) before. I remember replying years ago on a thread around the time your father passed away. It is frustrating to be the one who does the vast majority of the inviting. People have so many reasons for not reaching out. Some have family that fills that need. Some are introverts with less social need. I just know that if I wasn't proactive, I would be much lonelier, and so I do what I need to do. A few express their appreciation, but still don't reciprocate.

Hugs. 

[TexasProud]

No one I know is hosting big parties and hasn't been for 15 years or more. Heck, we can't even find a time for our Sunday School to get together and meet for a party.  We are all traveling way too much. 

As far as Christmas cards, I haven't sent one in 20 years or more. I didn't want to feel like we were bragging. ( Ours was a Christmas letter not a handwritten note, though.)  

Sorry you are feeling bad.  Yeah, I would have been one of those friends who didn't write back.  I haven't written a handwritten note or card to anyone in....decades maybe.  Not sure why. Easier to text or call I guess... 

[LauraClark]

We have a large family so no longer really get invited by couples without kids or with grown kids, even though we invite them. That is fine-it's the season of our life and I understand. We have a few families who we reciprocate back and forth with-those are great friendships for which I'm thankful. When there's not a reciprocation for multiple invites I tend to think that the other family is not really interested in establishing a deep relationship with us. That's fine and doesn't necessarily mean that I will stop inviting them, just that my relationship expectation is shallower. Every relationship needs someone who will take the first step to do the inviting: I've seen some people decide that since it's never reciprocate they will just never invite anyone again; I think that's a shame and is leading our culture in a direction of selfishness.

[regentrude]

34 minutes ago, LauraClark said:

Every relationship needs someone who will take the first step to do the inviting: I've seen some people decide that since it's never reciprocate they will just never invite anyone again; I think that's a shame and is leading our culture in a direction of selfishness.

Do I understand what you're saying:  it's the people who get sick of always being the ones to do the first step, always the ones hosting and are finally fed up who are responsible for "leading our culture in a direction of selfishness"? And not the ones who only take advantage and never initiate? Interesting perspective. 

[regentrude]

56 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

No one I know is hosting big parties and hasn't been for 15 years or more. Heck, we can't even find a time for our Sunday School to get together and meet for a party.  We are all traveling way too much. 

Almost all of my friends work for the university. Which means we are all in town during the academic year. Most socializing happens in people's homes; small town, no decent restaurants except for the brewery which is popular for gatherings.

As for large parties with 30+ guests, there are several in our circle that have become long-standing institutions that recur yearly. I have been hosting a bratwurst bbq in May on the last day of classes for at least 15 years. My friend hosts an ugly sweater party in December the penultimate Friday of classes. Another couple had a Kentucky Derby party until Covid, one hosts an Octoberfest, one a New Years Day open house. These parties are attended by 30 to 90 guests (mine is usually 40-50). Invitee circles are not identical but have huge overlap.

It's just a matter of making time and prioritizing getting together. Not everyone goes to every event, of course, but enough people go. There's no " finding" a time - the host schedules and everyone knows well in advance. And folks either go or don't. It's not hard. 

Eta just to be clear: by no means do I expect everyone to host on this scale or reciprocate by throwing a big party. 

Edited December 24, 2023 by regentrude

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah, I would have been one of those friends who didn't write back.  I haven't written a handwritten note or card to anyone in....decades maybe.  Not sure why. Easier to text or call I guess... 

It has nothing to do with the precise mode of response. While handwritten letters are extra special and photo cards nice, I would have been happy about an email or a note on Messenger acknowledging my letter ( and my existence) and maybe sharing a bit about their year.

Again, I must be a dinosaur who remembers learning that not responding to correspondence is rude. Apparently that, too, is no longer a thing.

Edited December 24, 2023 by regentrude

[SKL]

I had a friend who was strictly against the concept of reciprocating.

I am cold-hearted.  I dropped this friend after she rebuffed my attempts to reciprocate too many times.  (For example, I would take them to dinner and they would sneak and pay when I was taking my tot to the bathroom etc.)  I was not in a position to have them to my house for dinner as they had done for me.

For those who don't believe there are homes that can't host ... life really is complex.  Not everyone has substantial control over what happens in their home.  Forget the fact that I don't cook; there are ways around that.  The skunk in the basement was quite special.  😛  But besides that, the people we live with can provide all sorts of challenging dynamics.  So, IMO those who do host at home should be open to other ways of reciprocating.  But yes, there needs to be give-and-take if a relationship is to be healthy.

[SKL]

5 minutes ago, regentrude said:

It has nothing to do with the precise mode of response. While handwritten letters are extra special and photo cards nice, I would have been happy about an email or a note on Messenger acknowledging my letter ( and my existence) and maybe sharing a bit about their year.

Again, I must be a dinosaur who remembers learning that not responding to correspondence is rude. Apparently that, too, is no longer a thing.

As for annual letters ... I had thought about doing that ... I mean, we have lots going on in any year.  But it does feel braggy or dramatic to lay it out like that (speaking only for myself).  I also have an irrational fear of formally saying anything good about my kids, even if it isn't exactly bragging.  I could see it if we had moved or something, but I've lived in one house for almost 30 years.  😛

I did send out a photo card intended to serve as an announcement when I adopted my girls, but beyond that, I don't put info in Christmas cards, except to respond to someone else who has asked a question in theirs.

Now if you email to me, I will email you back in kind.  Then I can tailor it to your message and your relationship to me.  I have some friends with whom I do this exchange around Christmas or birthdays.  (Used to do it much more with certain friends, but the ones who liked that method of communication have passed away.)

[Bootsie]

54 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Almost all of my friends work for the university. Which means we are all in town during the academic year. Most socializing happens in people's homes; small town, no decent restaurants except for the brewery which is popular for gatherings.

As for large parties with 30+ guests, there are several in our circle that have become long-standing institutions that recur yearly. I have been hosting a bratwurst bbq in May on the last day of classes for at least 15 years. My friend hosts an ugly sweater party in December the penultimate Friday of classes. Another couple had a Kentucky Derby party until Covid, one hosts an Octoberfest, one a New Years Day open house. These parties are attended by 30 to 90 guests (mine is usually 40-50). Invitee circles are not identical but have huge overlap.

It's just a matter of making time and prioritizing getting together. Not everyone goes to every event, of course, but enough people go. There's no " finding" a time - the host schedules and everyone knows well in advance. And folks either go or don't. It's not hard. 

Eta just to be clear: by no means do I expect everyone to host on this scale or reciprocate by throwing a big party. 

Wow, I am impressed.  How do you manage to host a bbq on the last day of classes?  Every semester I vow to make sure the end of the semester is not a total whirlwind--and I never succeed.  Between last-minute student (panic) questions, grading projects, preparing finals, early grades for graduating seniors, hooding ceremonies....What is your secret?

I grew up in a small town where people just dropped in all the time.  Now I live in a larger city where people are spread out.  It could easily take a colleague an hour to get to my house (and I live two blocks from the university) if I invited their family over.  I have several colleagues who commute from out-of-state; they teach their classes and then leave.  And, I noticed that we did not have our work holiday luncheon, our work canned food drive/service project, our dinner for seniors, and many other activities that we had pre-Covid at work this year.  I thought much of what I was experiencing was simply larger city life.  But, your post is a reminder to me that I need to be more intentional about hospitality and friendships.  

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

Wow, I am impressed.  How do you manage to host a bbq on the last day of classes?  Every semester I vow to make sure the end of the semester is not a total whirlwind--and I never succeed.  Between last-minute student (panic) questions, grading projects, preparing finals, early grades for graduating seniors, hooding ceremonies....What is your secret?

First of all, it doesn't really take that much time. On Fridays, I am done teaching at 10am. I head home and start party prep: I make six different salads, set up chairs and tables in the driveway, set up buffet in the kitchen, ready the grill. Dh comes home and starts cooking brats at 4:45. Guests arrive at 5pm and some bring a contribution.

Normally my end of the semester is quite calm; after week 10 which is insane, things quiet down to a definite lull in week 14 and 15. Students coast, and the amount of email has drastically dwindled compared to early in the semester. I use small chunks of time throughout the semester to work ahead on my prep for the next semester and will have syllabi and Canvas pages done.

In the last class week, I teach my regular classes but have no prep for the following week. I teach intro classes, so no projects ( the projects in first- year seminar aren't due until finals week, and that's only in the fall.) Wednesday I have the last instructor meeting to review the final exam draft for my large class, revise that afternoon, get everyone's comments by Friday noon, incorporate those over the weekend, and my final exams are ready to be copied Monday of finals week. I have written the small class final a couple weeks earlier. The last week's homework is not to be graded, just for test prep, so I don't have my usual Friday grading.  Thursday, my afternoon help sessions will be quite empty, and I can photograph the undergrad research competition and prepare our social media posts in that time. 

Really, no secret, just working ahead using the time confetti during the last third of the semester. And the golden hour between 5:30 am and 6:30 am when I get so much done with no new emails flooding in.

Eta: this all applies to normal semesters! This semester,  the extra demands were crazy. The university shutting down the websites and requiring a migration to a tool that isn't suitable for my class, thus forcing me to create a complete new course website elsewhere to host my videos was a major time sink. Another is being sucked into organizing a conference for January which feels like an albatross around my neck. And there's more very time consuming,  out of the ordinary, responsibilities that made me behind for the first time.

Edited December 24, 2023 by regentrude

[JennyD]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

It could easily take a colleague an hour to get to my house

We spent a semester at a different university last year and 95% of the invitations we made to colleagues were declined.  Pretty sure some of it was just a less friendly faculty atmosphere, but the fact that lots of folks lived 45-60 minutes away in unpredictable traffic was surely a major factor as well. 

[TechWife]

I don’t know. We’re all introverts and we host frequently. It’s part of living in community with others. We look forward to it. Being an introvert doesn’t mean we don’t like or want to spend time with people.

We are rarely asked anywhere. This week is the first time since the before times & they are new acquaintances. I don’t want people invite us because they feel obligated though. I’d rather them want to spend time with us. 

[goldberry]

6 hours ago, regentrude said:

This. So many ways to reciprocate:

Want to meet for coffee, have a picnic at the park, grab lunch during work break, go for a walk together, have a drink on the porch?... none of which require fancy houses, extra dishes, cooking skills, money.

Which brings me full cycle to something I mentioned before: it's not just dinner invites. It's phone calls, messages, invites for casual meetups, ANY sign that my friendship is valued - if I don't reach out, I don't hear from people (with a handful of exceptions). There's no reciprocating there either.

This is the first year in my life I wrote zero Christmas letters, after usually sending dozens of handwritten letters (not photo cards with a signature) and never hearing back. Sure, y'all will tell me plenty of possible excuses, but if every single person cannot be bothered and I'm the only one who gives a fig, that hurts.

My daughter somehow grew up with the expectation that she would have many true friends in her life, and that other people would be as kind and supportive as she is.  She (a person who goes the extra mile, gets the surprise cup of coffee for a colleague, would do anything for a friend) has been consistently hurt at what other people consider "friendships" and how she is treated by them.  I, a person who has had two people in my life I considered real friends, one of which is my husband, did not give her this expectation.  But there it is!  I told in another thread how my life-long best friendship has recently broken up.  So I've been putting out a bit of effort to be social.  HOPELESS! 

Seriously, for all the talk about people being isolated, lonely, needing community, etc.... no one really seems that interested.  So, ((hugs))...

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that although people talk a lot about loneliness and its problems, there is also a stronger trend to encourage people to ghost or otherwise reject their friends and family if they are not perfectly aligned in outlook and opinions.  That second one has become so accepted that it’s not questioned as much as it probably should be, and it adds a great deal to isolation.

Regarding reciprocating invitations, I feel less strongly about them if they are part of a big ‘cattle call’ event.  Those almost have a business aspect to them, mushing together with things like networking events or business anniversary celebrations, or killing many obligations with one stone, so to speak.  It’s the small, cozy, intimate entertainment that I feel requires the most investment on the part of the host, and even with those, it’s often reflective of something the host enjoys more so than something that the guests enjoy—ie we have neighbors that we really like up at the cabin who I love to have over, because we enjoy each other’s company but also because I enjoy cooking and I like having a spruced up house, which DH is more likely to assist with if we have company.  Said neighbors enjoy our company, but their house is always spruced up and perfect, and neither of them likes to cook.  So it’s more unpleasant or troublesome for them to host than for us.  Knowing their goodwill is what I value about them reciprocating, but I do know their good will, and I don’t need them to host us to show it, especially knowing that it’s not as fun for them to have folks over as it is for us, and yet they feel like they should.  

I grew up with Big FAmily Holidays involving fine China and endless roast beasts, and they were wonderful.  I know how to entertain like that, but I also know that it makes people uncomfortable and intimidated nowadays, so it’s not how I do it.  I do miss it, but I also want my guests to have a good time.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Carol in Cal.

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, goldberry said:

…

Seriously, for all the talk about people being isolated, lonely, needing community, etc.... no one really seems that interested.  So, ((hugs))...

 

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I think that although people talk a lot about loneliness and its problems, there is also a stronger trend to encourage people to ghost or otherwise reject their friends and family if they are not perfectly aligned in outlook and opinions.   

…

Friendship has become a commodity that can be discarded the moment it doesn’t meet needs. Overall, the individualist bent common in the US has fostered a culture  that no longer understands what community is, nor values it in more than a transactional way. Therefore, we  don’t invest in relationships. There is a realization that we could be “discarded” the moment we no longer meet A crieteria of some kind. Knowing that, it’s more difficult to risk the rejection. It doesn’t seem to be a matter of “if,” but “when.” 

[Frances]

TMI

Edited December 25, 2023 by Frances

[LauraClark]

6 hours ago, regentrude said:

Do I understand what you're saying:  it's the people who get sick of always being the ones to do the first step, always the ones hosting and are finally fed up who are responsible for "leading our culture in a direction of selfishness"? And not the ones who only take advantage and never initiate? Interesting perspective. 

Hmm-no, I wasn't trying to lay the blame totally on the hosting people. There's a verse in the Bible about being salt -I've always understood that to mean that those that are salt preserve the meat from going rotten. So, I think I view all of culture as heading towards selfishness but if there's something I can do to prevent a small amount of that from happening, I should do it joyfully. I often recognize, in myself, that when I try to withdraw from doing good-that-is-not-reciprocated it is for selfish reasons. It's just a small amount of good I can do to help preserve a culture that is turning, frankly, rotten. 

[Arcadia]

23 hours ago, regentrude said:

If people don't have the space for parties of 20, surely almost everyone can fit 2-4 additional people. If people don't have a large table for a sit-down dinner, they have standing room for drinks and finger foods. If people don't have extra plates, they could ask a guest to bring some or pick up paper plates. 

My side of the family and some of my husband’s aunts are the kind that has an open door policy. Call to check we are home and drop by. The hosts would just serve whatever finger food or drinks they have at their disposal. So except for special occasions like planned big gatherings, they don’t issue out invites.

My friends when they pop over to visit would have to literally stand around and eat. We have invited friends to have a sit down meal at their choice of locations a few times but due to clashing schedules, we usually have a meal together every few years. 

[regentrude]

9 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

My friends when they pop over to visit would have to literally stand around and eat. 

When I host drinks and nibbles, everyone stands in the kitchen. Never mind that there's a whole living room - everyone crams together and stands where the food is :) 

[scholastica]

41 minutes ago, regentrude said:

When I host drinks and nibbles, everyone stands in the kitchen. Never mind that there's a whole living room - everyone crams together and stands where the food is 🙂

I just want to say I’ve always loved how you and your dh entertain so much. I’m sorry people don’t reciprocate your hospitality. They really should. You do a lot!

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

When I host drinks and nibbles, everyone stands in the kitchen. Never mind that there's a whole living room - everyone crams together and stands where the food is 🙂

LOL. I get that! I Mark was trying to help me get the feast out tonight, and 3 adult kids and their spouses/s.o. walked through the door, did a round of hugging, then crammed into the kitchen to hang out near us. Hey, I love being loved enough for them to want to be around us, but eventually the road block to the table became bad enough I finally had to gently ask them all to take the Glogg and Syllabub into the living room before I spilled something hot on someone. Then they all wanted to help! Love that tooo....but uhm...kids...just maybe get out of the space. That worked out fine. Before I could bus a single plate, they all jumped up and started putting food away and washing dishes. Sweet kids. But, PHEW, please do not congregate between me and the table!

[TechWife]

4 hours ago, scholastica said:

I just want to say I’ve always loved how you and your dh entertain so much. I’m sorry people don’t reciprocate your hospitality. They really should. You do a lot!

For me, there’s a difference between entertaining and hospitality. Entertaining has an element of “show” to it & is planned. It’s Making sure the house, the food, the table, are “just so.” Hospitality is about relationships & welcoming people into my home, not my house. It’s more organic in nature than entertainment and focuses on relationships. The house is whatever state it’s in, people might bring food to share if it’s for a meal, long conversations around the table or in the kitchen involving nearly everyone, if not everyone, who is present, helping clean the kitchen. With hospitality, it can be spontaneous and take dozens of different forms - pretty much anything imaginable that prioritizes relationships. It can be chatting in the yard, sitting in the living room, taking about what interests people, which may lead to random forays to the bookshelves or into the garage, craft room, or garden. Hospitality and entertainment can and do coexist (I love setting a pretty table for a holiday meal with friends), but, at least for me, it takes a lot of effort to pay attention to both the plan and the people. Not everyone can do both at the same time, nor is it always appropriate. 

[fairfarmhand]

It’s cell phones. IMHO
 

20 years ago when my dh started in his field, work was over when he came home. Every now and then if a project was serious or there was an emergency then he might make a few phone calls or send some emails but now so many people are expected to work around the clock by cell phone. They manage email constantly on weekend and evenings. Because of this they feel stretched too thin. It’s exhausting to always have that in the back of your mind. 
my dh and I used to host a lot. We had families with kids our childrens ages and  it was so fun. As my dhs career has advanced he’s just pooped on the weekend and evenings and it’s fallen by the wayside. (We don’t tend to accept invitations either though) 

Edited December 25, 2023 by fairfarmhand

[KungFuPanda]

My dd and her Dh live in an 850 sq ft condo. They have a tiny galley kitchen and their only dining table is on the balcony. They have a small dining space, but that’s their home office and Dd works exclusively from home and dsil works from home about half the time. 
 

They entertain fairly often and they’re great cooks. They made us a wonderful dinner last night and we dined in the living room using the coffee table for drinks. It was fun and the baby was in his high chair. They made chicken parm and the pasta was rigatoni because it’s easier to manage than longer noodles. 
 

Going out in the city is so expensive that it makes sense for young people to entertain more. I wonder it it’s the middle aged set, who is just tired and needing less socialization, that is pulling back from hosting company? 

[Faith-manor]

6 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

My dd and her Dh live in an 850 sq ft condo. They have a tiny galley kitchen and their only dining table is on the balcony. They have a small dining space, but that’s their home office and Dd works exclusively from home and dsil works from home about half the time. 
 

They entertain fairly often and they’re great cooks. They made us a wonderful dinner last night and we dined in the living room using the coffee table for drinks. It was fun and the baby was in his high chair. They made chicken parm and the pasta was rigatoni because it’s easier to manage than longer noodles. 
 

Going out in the city is so expensive that it makes sense for young people to entertain more. I wonder it it’s the middle aged set, who is just tired and needing less socialization, that is pulling back from hosting company? 

My young adults host their friends a lot, and their friends take turns as well. That inner circle likes to be together, and are very considerate of one another. All for one, and one for all! That seems to be the motto. So what is nice is we occasionally visit our bachelors, offer to cook for all of inner circle, and kind of make an evening of it. The home cooked mom/dad meal is so appreciated, and they all pitch in on the clean up. To be honest, of all the the people we have ever hosted, this group of young adults are the nicest, most enthusiastic, and most conscientious folks. They give me hope for the future.

Someone mentioned cell phones. I do have to say that from 2015-2018, Mark had the most disrespectful, nasty manager ever. He expected his IT workers to be on call 24/7/365, and would yell and scream if they didn't answer every phone call, every work email, the second he sent it. It was exhausting. We still somehow managed to keep our 4H club and rocket team going, but honestly the infringement on the home of some members of management should actually be illegal on pain of such massive, monetary fines, that corporations fear keeping such managers around. Instead this horrible human got a huge promotion. Sick! I can imagine that anyone who works for these kinds of managers does not have a single cell of energy to put to socializing or planning anything. American work culture sucks for so very many people.