How much are your kids' student loans?

[Kidlit]

7 minutes ago, Kuovonne said:

There were a lot of factors that are very unique to her and our family. A lot has to do with her personality, her interests, her skills, and her weaknesses. It also has to do with a lot of changes and uncertainty in our family finances in the past four years, and my tolerance for risk.

She got a scholarship, but obviously not enough to afford her college without insane loans.

I also do not personally believe that the main reason for college is to earn more money. I think going to college can have value unrelated to an increase in earning potential.

I went to college on full scholarship (including covering room & board) for both undergrad and grad school. So I have never had any college debt, and maybe I am underestimating how soul-crushing college debt can be. But we discussed the alternatives and decided they would have been soul-crushing for her too.

I don't know about soul crushing, and having never had significant student loan debt (I did borrow about $2k for a computer--which I had forgotten until now--and then took advantage of a payment plan through the university for grad school, allowing us to pay it off by graduation), I can't speak to it personally.  I THINK the reason why so many people try to avoid it (& this is certainly true for us) is that the repayment generally comes at a time in a person's life when there are many other financial obligations for most people.  For example, I have a friend who is about to have to start paying on her loan after the deferment  (or whatever--I haven't been keeping up with all the details), on top of having two kids, a house, vehicles, and a husband whose job was tenuous there for a bit.  It was a lot of pressure.  Thankfully, the job is resolved for now, but they were looking at a loss of income on top of the loan.  I think stories like that (& worse) are what many of us take as cautionary tales.  (Also--the friend didn't finish college, and the job she currently has wouldn't have been helped in any way--practically or financially--by what she was studying.)

[Arcadia]

17 minutes ago, Kuovonne said:

So I have never had any college debt, and maybe I am underestimating how soul-crushing college debt can be. But we discussed the alternatives and decided they would have been soul-crushing for her too.

I think any debt, including mortgages, can be soul crushing but having a parent as a co-signer feels less scary. I do agree with you that the alternatives could be soul crushing too and maybe more so than student loans.

My husband and I didn’t have student loan debts but we had a period of time after relocating to the states when we had two mortgages to pay every month and it was soul crushing. My parents did gave us monetary help because we were living hand to mouth and my kids were at the baby to kindergarten age during that time.

[Kidlit]

Also--and perhaps this is a big one--my dh and I decided we would work toward being financially fit enough to meet our own needs as we age instead of helping them go elsewhere to school, and that would be our gift to our children since (so far) they've managed to qualify themselves for scholarships at our decent local school. 

[2squared]

10 minutes ago, Kidlit said:

I don't know about soul crushing, and having never had significant student loan debt (I did borrow about $2k for a computer--which I had forgotten until now--and then took advantage of a payment plan through the university for grad school, allowing us to pay it off by graduation), I can't speak to it personally.  I THINK the reason why so many people try to avoid it (& this is certainly true for us) is that the repayment generally comes at a time in a person's life when there are many other financial obligations for most people.  For example, I have a friend who is about to have to start paying on her loan after the deferment  (or whatever--I haven't been keeping up with all the details), on top of having two kids, a house, vehicles, and a husband whose job was tenuous there for a bit.  It was a lot of pressure.  Thankfully, the job is resolved for now, but they were looking at a loss of income on top of the loan.  I think stories like that (& worse) are what many of us take as cautionary tales.  (Also--the friend didn't finish college, and the job she currently has wouldn't have been helped in any way--practically or financially--by what she was studying.)

My dh knows a lot of peers with law school debt that is soul crushing. The payments are the size of a mortgage, and it limited the size of their families, where they live, and what jobs they can take in early adulthood which really has significant life-long impacts. We paid for his law school with cash, and we used to marvel at the life choices we could make that his peers couldn’t make. That comparison solidified our belief in not saddling our kids with large college debt. 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, crazyforlatin said:

Actually is it a good idea to take out the federal loan each year just in case? We don’t qualify for anything other than what’s offered to all students? Is that zero interest? 

Definitely not zero interest. Unless you think you can get a guaranteed return on the money to cover the interest and the origination fees, I can’t see any reason to take the loan out just in case. And many students don’t qualify for subsidized loans, so interest starts accruing immediately. Plus, I’m pretty sure the loan can be taken out at any point during the school year, although the amount allowed might be prorated.

Our son had no loans and actually graduated with substantial savings. He had a full merit tuition scholarship (we qualified for no FA anywhere, not even at the pricey elite LACs), we gave him a monthly amount for room/board, and he worked summers, holidays, and a limited amount during the school year (some paid research related to his major and very limited hours at a fairly lucrative commission based outside job). 

[Ginevra]

My two launched YAs don’t have college debt and neither do we. Hopefully this will be true for the youngest as well. 
 

It was always important to me to take on little or no debt for college, so that informed our choices regarding where the kids would attend. All of my kids attended in-state public colleges, but I also count myself lucky to have several good choices within those parameters. Youngest begins this fall at the same college oldest graduated from and he, like her, has a (small) merit scholarship; every little bit helps. 
 

I would love for any of my kids to get graduate degrees but have always said if they do, it will be up to them to pay for it. I would only advise grad degrees if they wanted to participate in a field with good ROI. That way, they can expect to repay the loan sooner than later. 

[mom31257]

Dd has about 15,000, and ds will have around the same. Both have only subsidized loans. 

Going to a private college out of state is pricey, but they both wanted to do it. They both wanted to help contribute to their education, too. My hope is that we can help them after ds is done. He has two more years left, and we are paying for the rest of his education his scholarships aren't covering. 

Dd was really hoping for the loan forgiveness program to go through. She is a nurse, so she will always have a job and the potential for a good income.

Ds is majoring in business management, so I worry his career path will be more fluid and less reliable. He has a very good personality and reasoning skills for business, so maybe he'll have the potential for even more in the long run. 

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, Ginevra said:

My two launched YAs don’t have college debt and neither do we. Hopefully this will be true for the youngest as well. 
 

It was always important to me to take on little or no debt for college, so that informed our choices regarding where the kids would attend. All of my kids attended in-state public colleges, but I also count myself lucky to have several good choices within those parameters. Youngest begins this fall at the same college oldest graduated from and he, like her, has a (small) merit scholarship; every little bit helps. 
 

I would love for any of my kids to get graduate degrees but have always said if they do, it will be up to them to pay for it. I would only advise grad degrees if they wanted to participate in a field with good ROI. That way, they can expect to repay the loan sooner than later. 

My mom always told me she she would do her best to provide me with the money for one car, one degree, and one wedding. She did help with grad school with some living expenses, but I paid the tuition and my own rent, utilities, gas, and food. 

[Serenade]

My older son has $18,500 in loans.  He went to the local community college for two years, earned an associate degree, and all of his classes transferred into a state university. So his loans are from 2 1/2 years of college.  He went to college 5 hours from home, so he couldn't commute.  He had some good grants and a small scholarship, and that helped a lot, plus my mom contributed some (she set up a Roth years ago for all the grandkids to share). Finally, because my son went to college during the pandemic, he ended up with quite a bit of money through the CARES act -- his school was very good at distributing it to the students, and I think he got 3 payments totaling close to $2000, plus the one summer school class he took was covered through CARES act money.  He will have no trouble paying his loans back, because he has a decent job, and he intends to pay back his loans early.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Serenade

[teachermom2834]

I think it is wonderful that so many parents here have been able to provide cars, living expenses, pay out of pocket for college, for their kids. It is such a gift and so great to have that start in life. It can make such a difference.

I just hope anyone reading isn’t feeling guilt for not being able to provide that. Some people just can’t and it isn’t because they took too many vacations or didn’t prioritize savings. Some people didn’t have any help from their own parents/grandparents and don’t have and grandparent help for their own kids. 
 

That is wonderful that so many have grandparent help/inheritances, etc. That is a blessing and such a gift. But not everyone has that and people that can’t help their kids with cars and college really shouldn’t feel bad. So many of these discussions seem to go in a way that make it seem super feasible to do it without loans but then when you dig in there is grandparent help etc. 
 

Again, that is a beautiful gift! I hope to be able to give it someday and I would be proud to do it. But I worry that people leave these discussions feeling like all these other people were able to do it so I feel like dirt because I couldn’t. 
 

Somedays the best we can do for our kids is be a cheerleader and emotional support and a soft place to come home and lay their head and do a load of laundry. That is ok too and there is no shame in not being able to finance your child’s college education. But you can be an advisor and support and help them find the most responsible and economical way to meet their goals. 
 

We have had both sides in our family as a ten year age gap and change in fortunes has made difference circumstances for different kids. 

[Soror]

My oldest is just getting ready to start college. My original goal was that they wouldn't have more than the subsidized loan limits ($23k total). Then I went back to work and part of my motivation for going ahead and taking a FT job is so that we can help them more. 

For my son's first year of college, his tuition is covered by a small merit-based scholarship, and another need-based scholarship, and then they have free tuition if you qualify for any pell grant that covers the rest. He'll qualify for this at least next year. I think the following year too. The last year we'll probably make too much money. Dorm costs are a hair under 10k- 3k loan and the rest we are splitting with him. If he does well I'd like to be able to pay that off for him but we'll see. 

Dd1 is already looking at colleges and I've told her the same. The goal is to get scholarships of some sort for at least half and then we'll split the rest. She doesn't want any loans and is working on starting savings now that she is working. 

Dh's parents paid for his college but he flunked out mulitple times. My parents didn't have the funds to pay for me. I could have gotten an entirely free ride if I'd gone off as a Freshman but I didn't know about scholarships and I think was nervous about moving off. I harbor no ill will to my parents for not paying. They came from poverty and worked very hard to get ahead. They were supportive in whatever ways they could be supportive. They knew nothing about college. I ended up with $12k in loans. I paid those off my first year out of college with my adult paycheck. I didn't find that to be burdensome. Dh is going back to college now. We are not taking out any loans. His has been covered by a bit of Pell grants, small scholarships, 75% of the rest is reimbursed through work. We pay cash for the last 25% (except for a few classes that he withdrew too late we paid for all of them).

I like being able to help our children but dh doesn't have a high paying job and being a single income family definitely cut down on what things we could do. There are some lean years in there. We prioritized saving for retirement because we dont' want to burden our children with our care and old people loans aren't really a thing.

[catz]

There is no shame in not being able to pay your EFC.  We can’t afford our EFC and each of our teens picked a college accordingly with help.  But there are ways to parent and guide your teen toward affordable options without co-signing on a loan that is highly risky for both parties and can ruin relationships.  I’ve seen it happen.  You can help in ways like letting your kid live at home, buying a transit pass, and more day to day stuff.  Parenting doesn’t expire at age 18.

my spouse and I were first gen college students.  My husband lived at home for his undergrad and did a part time professional masters.   Community college gets looked down upon, but both my kids had very good quality classes with strong transfer options  as dual enrollment students.  

[teachermom2834]

5 minutes ago, catz said:

There is no shame in not being able to pay your EFC.  We can’t afford our EFC and each of our teens picked a college accordingly with help.  But there are ways to parent and guide your teen toward affordable options without co-signing on a loan that is highly risky for both parties and can ruin relationships.  I’ve seen it happen.  You can help in ways like letting your kid live at home, buying a transit pass, and more day to day stuff.  Parenting doesn’t expire at age 18.

my spouse and I were first gen college students.  My husband lived at home for his undergrad and did a part time professional masters.   Community college gets looked down upon, but both my kids had very good quality classes with strong transfer options  as dual enrollment students.  

This exactly. There are ways to help your kids even if you can’t pay. And it isn’t as all or nothing as it can be made to seem. Taking $20,000 or less is federal student loans is not the same as taking $150,000 in private loans. 
 

I spent so much time researching ways my kids could do things they could afford. I didn’t just wash my hands of them and send them on their way to figure it out and we would not have co-signed private loans. (Except in a scenario like a senior who was in a jam and needed one to finish. We wouldn’t have started freshman year with that as the plan). 
 

Also, it was our philosophy to pour as much as we could into them in k-12 so that they were prepared to get scholarships, be successful passing their classes, etc once graduated. There are 4 of them. I remember telling my oldest that he had gotten the bulk of our resources and attention but that had to have an end date and it would be his siblings’ turn at some point and that once he graduated high school we would still help but we had to pour into his siblings with the same focus he had from us k-12. It just felt like we were better equipped to invest in their k-12 preparing them than expect to somehow pay for college - which was just not a realistic scenario. But we could pay for high school stuff that benefited them. 
 

I definitely had more time than money and boy did I research the heck out of options for my kids and figure out how they could get it done. You are 100% correct that parenting doesn’t end at 18 and parenting is not just about paying! 
 

Also, by not paying outright for college we did always kind of have a plan for a true crisis anyone would have. Like if someone got in legal trouble or had to go to rehab or something we would have then pulled out all the stops and sold our house or drained the retirement or whatever it took for our kids. Because we will never be done parenting. But college- there are other ways. 

[Kassia]

17 minutes ago, catz said:

There is no shame in not being able to pay your EFC.  We can’t afford our EFC and each of our teens picked a college accordingly with help.  But there are ways to parent and guide your teen toward affordable options without co-signing on a loan that is highly risky for both parties and can ruin relationships.  I’ve seen it happen.  You can help in ways like letting your kid live at home, buying a transit pass, and more day to day stuff.  Parenting doesn’t expire at age 18.

my spouse and I were first gen college students.  My husband lived at home for his undergrad and did a part time professional masters.   Community college gets looked down upon, but both my kids had very good quality classes with strong transfer options  as dual enrollment students.  

EFCs seem ridiculously high to me.  And I agree that community college can be a wonderful option.  We only used it for DE but it was such a great experience for our kids.  

[Arcadia]

26 minutes ago, Soror said:

We prioritized saving for retirement because we dont' want to burden our children with our care and old people loans aren't really a thing.

Same here especially with my parents generation living longer but also having more health issues as they age. I am 50 and so many of my ex-classmates are involved in taking care of our parents high medical needs already. 
 

OP, 

While we are paying tuition, books, room and board, we are not giving DS18 any fun money allowance nor are we getting him a car. My friend gives each of her children a car and weekly fun money allowance to eat out with friends and watch movies. She also pays for their gas and car insurance. DS18’s meal plan includes money he can use to buy a frappe at Starbucks or Coffee Beans & Tea Leaf on campus as his treat and there isn’t a need to go out of campus to eat. 

[Kidlit]

My first two both earned housing scholarships but the first one moved over and then opted to come back home.  (Kid didn't enjoy shared bathrooms--though they share with three siblings at home!--and knew coming home was an easy option.  Also, home is closer to kid's job than sxhool, so late shifts usually resulted in a night at home anyway.) Second kid is set to move to dorm next month, but we're keeping an open bedroom.  🤣. I 100% support the move, but knowing the play of personalities (& certain tendencies/issues), I fully expect home to be preferable. Both kids have jobs and pay most/all of their day-to-day expenses.  We provided cars for both kids.  Older kid pays car insurance but that's it in terms of required bills. Younger kid will start with insurance when able.

 

I agree with pp that not all parents are able financially to pay kids' ways.   We certainly couldn't and didn't obligate ourselves.  If second kid had opted to go off, loans would've been the way to accomplish that.  Kid thought it through and eventually concluded the 100% merit award at the other school was worth the sacrifice.  
 

dh and I both managed full academic scholarships and had little debt to start off adult life, as I mentioned before.  Our parents would've helped us (& did--cars, a place to live, etc), but couldn't have footed the entire bill and thankfully didn't have to.  I wouldn't have qualified for grants, etc. , and while dh's situation was different than mine, I don't think he would've either.  I fully recognize this is not everyone's situation and appreciate that, so no judgment at all for student loans.  We are educators who greatly value education but DEFINITELY look at college pragmatically when it comes to debt and have encouraged our kids to always consider ROI. 

[elegantlion]

Ds has about 17k, most of them subsidized. We could not save for his schooling for a variety of reasons and by the time he started college, I was also in college and taking out loans. My contribution was that he lived at home rent free. 

Since I'm still in school, my loans are not due yet, although I'm making regular payments. Both of us were in school when undergrad loans were at 3 to 4.5%, so low in comparison for this year's number. 

[Heartstrings]

2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

I think it is wonderful that so many parents here have been able to provide cars, living expenses, pay out of pocket for college, for their kids. It is such a gift and so great to have that start in life. It can make such a difference.

I just hope anyone reading isn’t feeling guilt for not being able to provide that. Some people just can’t and it isn’t because they took too many vacations or didn’t prioritize savings. Some people didn’t have any help from their own parents/grandparents and don’t have and grandparent help for their own kids. 
 

That is wonderful that so many have grandparent help/inheritances, etc. That is a blessing and such a gift. But not everyone has that and people that can’t help their kids with cars and college really shouldn’t feel bad. So many of these discussions seem to go in a way that make it seem super feasible to do it without loans but then when you dig in there is grandparent help etc. 
 

Again, that is a beautiful gift! I hope to be able to give it someday and I would be proud to do it. But I worry that people leave these discussions feeling like all these other people were able to do it so I feel like dirt because I couldn’t. 
 

Somedays the best we can do for our kids is be a cheerleader and emotional support and a soft place to come home and lay their head and do a load of laundry. That is ok too and there is no shame in not being able to finance your child’s college education. But you can be an advisor and support and help them find the most responsible and economical way to meet their goals. 
 

We have had both sides in our family as a ten year age gap and change in fortunes has made difference circumstances for different kids. 

Thank you for this.  Truly.

[Heartstrings]

My husband and I were both first generation college students and still have our own student debt from that that we are paying off.  We were incredibly low income while my husband attended college, that's what prompted him to go to college in the first place, to get us into a better life.  That has meant that we weren't in a position to save for the kids college the way we would have liked.  

The only one of the kids to graduate so far will be taking out about $20,000 total in loans if everything goes to plan. that will be about half of his tuition at our local 4 year university, he's working to pay the rest.  He's living at home while attending and we're covering his expenses.  He was gifted a car from grandparents but we're paying the upkeep and insurance, he pays for gas.  That's all we can do and I do feel guilty about it sometimes.  It's a modest amount of debt though.  

[Ginevra]

2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

just hope anyone reading isn’t feeling guilt for not being able to provide that. Some people just can’t and it isn’t because they took too many vacations or didn’t prioritize savings. Some people didn’t have any help from their own parents/grandparents and don’t have and grandparent help for their own kids. 

I very much hope that nobody reads my post and thinks I am self-aggrandizing because we did not have loans. I grew up quite poor and my own parents never helped with cars, college, living expenses beyond adult age or so on. I did not go to college myself until my upper 30s. So I get it. I don’t want anyone feeling like dirt if they can’t provide these perks. I *hope* that I am being encouraging to those coming up behind by sharing what we did and how it helped. 
 

I do think school counselors for many years have pushed students to out-of-state schools - every counselor seems to have their favorite recs - and parents who did not take an active role in college choice have become beholden to spending more when they could have spent less. 

[Kidlit]

Ditto on what the two previous posters have said.  I consider our lack of debt mostly the blessing of an academic predisposition for both me and my dh, more than anything else.  (And the kids have genetics on their side--in this instance a blessing, not a curse.  Everything is a trade-off!) Both of us grew up modestly and still have what I'd consider a firmly middle class lifestyle now.   

[kathyl]

6 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

I very much hope that nobody reads my post and thinks I am self-aggrandizing because we did not have loans. I grew up quite poor and my own parents never helped with cars, college, living expenses beyond adult age or so on. I did not go to college myself until my upper 30s. So I get it. I don’t want anyone feeling like dirt if they can’t provide these perks. I *hope* that I am being encouraging to those coming up behind by sharing what we did and how it helped. 
 

I do think school counselors for many years have pushed students to out-of-state schools - every counselor seems to have their favorite recs - and parents who did not take an active role in college choice have become beholden to spending more when they could have spent less. 

Yeah our kids got into plenty of good schools.  But in the end we went with what we could afford.  Those out-of-state schools they got into were just so so much more expensive and offered very little money besides loans.  And even those wouldn't have made it affordable for our kids. 

Plus, all 5 of ours were attending college at the same time, for the bulk of their college years.  So it was the affordable state school for all of them.  And it was cheaper to help with housing, transportation, insurance, etc., than to pay for tons of tuition, books, fees, etc., for 5 kids, too.

[Annie G]

I hope nobody read our experience and felt bad. There’s so much more to a story than a loan amount, whether it’s a ton of loans or none.  Oldest Dd, who had a full ride for both undergrad and grad school did it by moving to Georgia to live with her dad for high school (that allowed her to qualify for the HOPE,which at the time paid tuition in full), and living at home during college instead of in a dorm, and bringing lunch from home instead of a meal plan.  For most people that combination of things simply isn’t possible. 

 

[Kidlit]

6 minutes ago, kathyl said:

Yeah our kids got into plenty of good schools.  But in the end we went with what we could afford.  Those out-of-state schools they got into were just so so much more expensive and offered very little money besides loans.  And even those wouldn't have made it affordable for our kids. 

Plus, all 5 of ours were attending college at the same time, for the bulk of their college years.  So it was the affordable state school for all of them.  And it was cheaper to help with housing, transportation, insurance, etc., than to pay for tons of tuition, books, fees, etc., for 5 kids, too.

This is our experience, too.   Both kids qualified for presidentials but were points shy of housing at those schools.   Our smaller (but not by much!) local university offered the full ride with the added bonus of proximity to home should the housing not work out.  Others probably disagree, but in our minds the debt was not worth the difference in schools.  YMMV, of course. 

[Kuovonne]

13 hours ago, Kidlit said:

This makes the taking of loans similar to say, borrowing money for travel or for a serious hobby or something like that.

Maybe. But I have never borrowed money for travel or a hobby. Other than co-signing my daughter’s loans, the only debt I have ever incurred have been for my house and cars.

 

13 hours ago, Kidlit said:

I THINK the reason why so many people try to avoid it (& this is certainly true for us) is that the repayment generally comes at a time in a person's life when there are many other financial obligations for most people.

I try to avoid debt in general, not just because of timing of repayment and phase of life.

13 hours ago, Arcadia said:

but having a parent as a co-signer feels less scary. I do agree with you that the alternatives could be soul crushing too and maybe more so than student loans.

Thank you. I would not have let my daughter take out the loans without me or my husband as a co-signer.

13 hours ago, Kidlit said:

my dh and I decided we would work toward being financially fit enough to meet our own needs as we age

This is also part of my financial plan. This is also part of why my DD has loans—I would not jeopardize my future financial needs for her college education, even if I could.

12 hours ago, 2squared said:

We paid for his law school with cash, and we used to marvel at the life choices we could make that his peers couldn’t make.

My peers never talked about student loan debt, and I didn’t see evidence that student loan debt made any difference in their lives versus mine. I think personality had a greater impact on life choices.

5 hours ago, mom31257 said:

Dd was really hoping for the loan forgiveness program to go through.

I do not expect any of my DD’s loans to be forgiven.

 

5 hours ago, Ginevra said:

It was always important to me to take on little or no debt for college

For me, attending a college that is a good fit was more important than debt. If a college is a bad fit, why attend that college at all? For my DD, there were very, very few colleges that could have been a good fit, and they were all out-of-state. When I was considering colleges for myself, I was lucky that almost any college would have been a good fit, and I could follow the money to a place I had only seen in a few glossy pictures. DD is different.

3 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

I just hope anyone reading isn’t feeling guilt for not being able to provide that. Some people just can’t and it isn’t because they took too many vacations or didn’t prioritize savings. Some people didn’t have any help from their own parents/grandparents and don’t have and grandparent help for their own kids. 

This is me. I don’t feel guilty for not being able to help my kids graduate college debt free. Both my husband and I got zero financial help from family for college. My kids have no grandparents who could help financially.

My husband and I are not in a position to gift money outright to avoid student loans. But I am in a position to co-sign loans and ensure that loan doesn’t go into default in the future if my daughter cannot make payments. That is a gift I can give to her and that she can accept.

3 hours ago, catz said:

Community college gets looked down upon,

I don’t look down on community college. DD and I considered it, and she did take some community college classes before leaving for her current college.

We discussed having DD live at home, take community college classes, and work a part time job. We discussed it many, many times. She could have done it, but we ultimately decided that taking out large loans to go to her current college was a better option for her.
 

3 hours ago, catz said:

But there are ways to parent and guide your teen toward affordable options without co-signing on a loan that is highly risky for both parties and can ruin relationships.

Absolutely there are many ways to parent. In my particular case, I decided that co-signing on my DD’s loans is within an acceptable amount of risk. One of the reasons why she has a fixed rate loan for a longer term (versus a lower variable rate with a shorter term) is because I don’t like risk.

Both my DD and I also agreed that this particular financial arrangement (me co-signing on her loans so she could go to this particular college) was the best choice for our relationship. Other people may not be able to comprehend why I think this was the best choice for our relationship, but they do not know the details, and I am not going to share them. 

 

2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

it was our philosophy to pour as much as we could into them in k-12 so that they were prepared to get scholarships, be successful passing their classes, etc once graduated.

We had a similar philosophy during k-12 education. But it became clear that no matter how much we poured into K-12 education, it was not going to be enough for this particular kid to go to a college that is a good fit without incurring significant student loans.

2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

I didn’t just wash my hands of them and send them on their way to figure it out and we would not have co-signed private loans.

I don’t think anyone on this board would ever wash their hands of their kids and send them on their way just because the kid turned 18. And recommending that a kid take out large loans is not sending the kid on her way—even if you think that is bad parenting, the act of making the recommendation and having the recommendation accepted is still being an involved parent.

2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

I spent so much time researching ways my kids could do things they could afford.

I spend a ton of time researching too. I did not come to the conclusion to have DD take out large loans without a massive amount of research. Doing research is no guarantee that the best option overall is an option that doesn’t involve large loans.

I am posting about my experience because it seems like no-one else has a similar experience. My kid’s loans are an order of magnitude larger than what other people are posting. No-one else even comes close. Yet, her loans are not the result of predatory practices, lack of research, uninvolved parenting, or vague hopes for loan forgiveness.

I don’t expect others to be in the same situation as me, but I want to let y’all know that this situation exists. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Kuovonne

[teachermom2834]

@Kuovonne I appreciate your perspective and I am sorry that my own posts defending people with loans took swipes at you, as someone with larger loans than my kids have. I actually do understand where you are coming from. Some kids need something different and your situation is such that you are comfortable with those loans. 
 

I do think there are things that are more important than the bottom line. Sometimes say, a kid needs to get out of town for some particular reason for their own good. Or any number of things. 

[Ginevra]

4 minutes ago, Kuovonne said:

For me, attending a college that is a good fit was more important than debt. If a college is a bad fit, why attend that college at all? For my DD, there were very, very few colleges that could have been a good fit, and they were all out-of-state. When I was considering colleges, I was lucky that almost any college would have been a good fit, and I could follow the money to a place I had only seen in a few glossy pictures. DD is different.

I hear you. What *does* make a college a bad fit for you? 
 

I do consider myself very fortunate because both of my graduated kids were able to go to in-state publics that were a very good fit for them, and I hope that that will be true for my youngest coming up, too. Oldest needed a small school with a LA focus and Middle needed an urban school with a happening vibe. On top of that, neither was seeking a rare major that requires going far from home. (That is also a loophole that doesn’t usually work here, because the in-states have “Design your major” options in most cases, so it’s hard to prove to Financial Aid offices that you couldn’t go in-state because of your unusual major.) 

[Kuovonne]

4 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Some kids need something different and your situation is such that you are comfortable with those loans. 

Thanks. I also admit that I am in a unique situation where I can co-sign on massive loans for my daughter and still sleep well at night. I understand that other people might not be able to do so.

[kathyl]

32 minutes ago, Kidlit said:

This is our experience, too.   Both kids qualified for presidentials but were points shy of housing at those schools.   Our smaller (but not by much!) local university offered the full ride with the added bonus of proximity to home should the housing not work out.  Others probably disagree, but in our minds the debt was not worth the difference in schools.  YMMV, of course. 

Yes, same here.  Only dh and I had to move for a job about the time they all began at the big state school.  The school was only 1.5 hours away from our old house/land.  So it all worked out well for them because they already knew the general area and state where they went to college.  They really really enjoyed being close to where they had (mostly) grown up yet being able to explore new parts of that area of the country.  Ultimately they all ended up living all over the country/world, but they will always have wonderful memories of those college years and the people they met there.

OP.  In the end we just all do what we think is best for our kids.  And kids and circumstances are all so different for each family.   

[Ting Tang]

18 hours ago, bookbard said:

So interesting to hear people with no/low student loans in the USA. We always say over here (in Australia) that 'we don't want to become like America', but I think everyone I know would have debts of 20,000 at least for their undergrad, and apparently it is worse now. The difference is that it is interest-free. Sort of. It is indexed to inflation, so the last 2 years have meant huge jumps. Oh, and you don't have to pay it back until you earn a certain amount (45 grand maybe?) I still have a debt from my master's degree, which has been pointless financially but I don't regret it. 

Yes, my loans had variable interest rates.  I paid more in interest than I took out for one of my loans.  That is incredibly sad.  We sometimes refer to this as a tax on the poor.  (I am not saying people didn't work hard and sacrifice--not at all!)

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Ting Tang

[Kuovonne]

11 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

What *does* make a college a bad fit for you? 

Any four year college that didn’t offer a major that interested my daughter was an automatic bad fit. My daughter has a very narrow list of majors that would be good fits. (I am not going to say her major because the exact major is not important.) This cut out a lot of colleges.

Any college that did not or would not have accepted her were bad fits.

Large colleges where DD could easily get lost in the shuffle were also bad fits. Having to take classes with profs who had no idea who she was due to the volume of students would have been a bad fit.

We only considered colleges in the USA. For this particular kid, going international would be a bad fit.

We also crossed off colleges that looked like a good fit academically but were more expensive and had significantly worse graduation rates.

She did not apply to any “for-profit” colleges. I thought the business model was too risky, and they mostly got bad reviews anyway.

There were a few other colleges that I had my daughter look at that she decided were not a fit for reasons that she could not fully articulate, but they would not have been any more affordable so it wasn’t worth digging deeper.

We took into account other factors, such as location, campus culture, proximity to family, etc. But those factors were minor compared to those listed above.

Even after taking everything into account, her current college is not a perfect fit. But I don’t think a perfect fit exists.

[Ting Tang]

I did find my $60,000 soul-crushing.  But around my later teen years, my parents started to have marital problems and became alcoholics.  So having the debt while feeling guilt and being told it was my turn to take care of them (yep, they said that, my dad even stole my debit card once), it was just really hard to get a good start in life. 

[Kuovonne]

35 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I paid more in interest than I took out for one of my loans.  That is incredibly sad.  We sometimes refer to this as a tax on the poor.

I think this is an issue of financial knowledge. When we got our mortgage for our house, it was very clear that the interest would cost multiple times the original loan amount. Every month my credit card statement says how much I would have to pay in interest if I made only minimal payments, and again it is many multiples of the original amount. The same goes for our car loans. 

I think that paying more in interest than the original principal is just part of having a loan with a hight rate or a long term.
 

35 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

Yes, my loans had variable interest rates. 

Variable interest rates on loans scare me.

29 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I did find my $60,000 soul-crushing.

I’m sorry you had to go through that. Do you feel you were misled into taking out those loans? Given your family dynamics, do you feel you could have done differently?

29 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

So having the debt while feeling guilt and being told it was my turn to take care of them (yep, they said that, my dad even stole my debit card once), it was just really hard to get a good start in life. 

 

That was an awful burden for your parents to put on you. One of my goals is to not be a burden on my kids.

One of the reasons why I am a co-signer on my daughter’s loans is to let her know that I am there to help her with her burdens, and not the other way around. 

One of my friends has a daughter who took out a student loan in secret by getting a different family member to co-sign. It caused lots of drama and stress that my friend didn’t understand until her daughter fessed up years later.

[Ting Tang]

1 minute ago, Kuovonne said:

I think this is an issue of financial knowledge. When we got our mortgage for our house, it was very clear that the interest would cost multiple times the original loan amount. Every month my credit card statement says how much I would have to pay in interest if I made only minimal payments, and again it is many multiples of the original amount. The same goes for our car loans. 

I think that paying more in interest than the original principal is just part of having a loan with a hight rate or a long term.
 

Variable interest rates on loans scare me.

I’m sorry you had to go through that. Do you feel you were misled into taking out those loans? Given your family dynamics, do you feel you could have done differently?

That was an awful burden for your parents to put on you. One of my goals is to not be a burden on my kids.

One of the reasons why I am a co-signer on my daughter’s loans is to let her know that I am there to help her with her burdens, and not the other way around. 

One of my friends has a daughter who took out a student loan in secret by getting a different family member to co-sign. It caused lots of drama and stress that my friend didn’t understand until her daughter fessed up years later.

I had no business taking out these loans--I do feel I was financially illiterate.  I might have gone to one loan counseling session my freshman year, but I do not think I understood the lasting impact they would have on my life.  I do think if my familial circumstances were different, I would have been in a much better position.  I absolutely do not want my children to end up like me.  My husband had a scholarship to community college and then transferred to a state school. He graduated debt-free.  Thank goodness!  I hope your daughter is able to repay her loans with ease.  The number isn't a shocker when I see tuition prices at some schools.  

[Kuovonne]

On 7/14/2023 at 1:08 PM, Ting Tang said:

I just paid off the remaining $14,000+ on my loans. 
…

The loans said they wouldn't be repaid until 2029.  I finished grad school in 2004. 

Forgot to say, congrats on paying off your student loans early! That is a major accomplishment! Enjoy knowing that you no longer have that hanging over you.

And thinking how you are going to address you kids college finances is a smart move.

Many people in this thread have happy stories of kids with little to no college debt due to scholarships, family assistance, and other choices. But there are no guarantees. As much as I would have liked my kid to go to an in-state college with a tidy scholarship, it just wasn’t going to happen that way for her. And that is okay, because that is not who she is, and I love her as she is.

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, Kuovonne said:

Even after taking everything into account, her current college is not a perfect fit. But I don’t think a perfect fit exists.

This world is not perfect and life is often hard. All colleges have weaknesses and downsides. Every student will face challenges. As long as a kid goes in grounded and with reasonable expectations, they should be ok. (Barring something traumatic or catastrophic and assuming adequate academic and life-skill preparation.) Lots of growing up happens in college.

Edited July 15, 2023 by ScoutTN

[catz]

If anyone is interested in reading some first hand accounts of long term affects of large student loans, there is a board on Reddit called r/StudentLoans.   Pretty sad situations, could be triggering for some.  

[Heartstrings]

I do think student loans are unique in that they are a bit of a bet on the future.  If you buy a car, you get a car.  If you buy a house, you get a house and you can resell it rather easily in most cases.  But with student loans you are gambling that everything will line up just so.  You’re betting that you’ll be capable of the work, that nothing will happen to force you to drop out, that the economy will be decent when you get out, that your degree will lead to higher earning power, that you don’t sick, hurt, pregnant etc. in the next 14 years (4 years for degree, 10 year repayment).  
 

You can do everything “right” and have circumstances change 2 years after graduation and just be stuck.  

Edited July 15, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Arcadia]

3 minutes ago, Kuovonne said:

As much as I would have liked my kid to go to an in-state college with a tidy scholarship, it just wasn’t going to happen that way for her.

Same for us. DS18 would love to go to the state university he could commute to but they rejected him for his major. We would have saved at least $25k per year if he was accepted. DS18 did get a $3k per year scholarship for where he is going but it isn’t significant enough to affect decisions.

[KSera]

15 hours ago, 2squared said:

My dh knows a lot of peers with law school debt that is soul crushing. The payments are the size of a mortgage, and it limited the size of their families, where they live, and what jobs they can take in early adulthood which really has significant life-long impacts. We paid for his law school with cash, and we used to marvel at the life choices we could make that his peers couldn’t make. That comparison solidified our belief in not saddling our kids with large college debt. 

This for us as well (minus the dh law school part). Seeing how that affected others has had a major impact on our approach with our kids. It means their choice of schools is much narrower than for their peers who have either wealthier families or more comfort with debt, though of course as adults,  if one of them chooses to go the debt route, that will be ultimately up to them. So far, they are all very debt averse. Also so far, that has ended up being a very good thing as the job market post college isn’t what we expected. As Heartstrings says:

15 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I do think student loans are unique in that they are a bit of a bet on the future.  If you buy a car, you get a car.  If you buy a house, you get a house and you can resell it rather easily in most cases.  But with student loans you are gambling that everything will line up just so.  You’re betting that you’ll be capable of the work, that nothing will happen to force you to drop out, that the economy will be decent when you get out, that your degree will lead to higher earning power, that you don’t sick, hurt, pregnant etc. in the next 14 years (4 years for degree, 10 year repayment).  

Very much this. I do think there are likely some fields and kid personality types where the gamble is more or less than others.

 

[Ginevra]

32 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I do think student loans are unique in that they are a bit of a bet on the future.  If you buy a car, you get a car.  If you buy a house, you get a house and you can resell it rather easily in most cases.  But with student loans you are gambling that everything will line up just so.  You’re betting that you’ll be capable of the work, that nothing will happen to force you to drop out, that the economy will be decent when you get out, that your degree will lead to higher earning power, that you don’t sick, hurt, pregnant etc. in the next 14 years (4 years for degree, 10 year repayment).  
 

You can do everything “right” and have circumstances change 2 years after graduation and just be stuck.  

True, but life is like that. It’s not just student loans that are a gamble on an unknown future. Marriage is; having or adopting a child is; mortgages and construction loans are; putting down roots in whatever place is, and so on. There’s always the possibility that things will not work out, either for you individually or in the National/international sense. Sometimes shit happens and it’s not what you figured on. That’s not unique to going to college. 
 

I think that’s why the smart path is always to hedge your bets as best you can and be prepared to flex big if it all goes to hell in a hand basket. In advising my kids for college, hedging bets looked mostly like: 

1) choose a major wisely;

2) go to the best school you can afford;

3) do the best you can with the circumstances present. 
 

That’s really all any of us can do, right? 

[ScoutTN]

Yes, all borrowing has a bit of presumption about the future in it. 

[KSera]

15 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

Yes, all borrowing has a bit of presumption about the future in it. 

It does, but @Heartstrings point still stands that this is a different kind of presumption about the future, in that the point of the loan is usually  the idea that taking the loan out is what will allow you to pay it back. When you get a loan on a car or house, you're getting it for the purpose of the car or house based on the income you already have. Circumstances can change, and impact that income, but with a college loan, you're often betting specifically on that loan being what allows you to eventually have the income to pay it back, rather than taking it out with an income source to pay it back already in place. It does make it a different kind of financial gamble.

[Scarlett]

7 hours ago, catz said:

There is no shame in not being able to pay your EFC.  We can’t afford our EFC and each of our teens picked a college accordingly with help.  But there are ways to parent and guide your teen toward affordable options without co-signing on a loan that is highly risky for both parties and can ruin relationships.  I’ve seen it happen.  You can help in ways like letting your kid live at home, buying a transit pass, and more day to day stuff.  Parenting doesn’t expire at age 18.

my spouse and I were first gen college students.  My husband lived at home for his undergrad and did a part time professional masters.   Community college gets looked down upon, but both my kids had very good quality classes with strong transfer options  as dual enrollment students.  

Yes.  There is somewhere in the middle of parents or grandparents paying or going to debt for 100k.  Kids staying at home through college is a huge costs savings that is rejected as an option because the whole ‘college experience’ has been sold and bought by so many.  

[Scarlett]

48 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

True, but life is like that. It’s not just student loans that are a gamble on an unknown future. Marriage is; having or adopting a child is; mortgages and construction loans are; putting down roots in whatever place is, and so on. There’s always the possibility that things will not work out, either for you individually or in the National/international sense. Sometimes shit happens and it’s not what you figured on. That’s not unique to going to college. 
 

I think that’s why the smart path is always to hedge your bets as best you can and be prepared to flex big if it all goes to hell in a hand basket. In advising my kids for college, hedging bets looked mostly like: 

1) choose a major wisely;

2) go to the best school you can afford;

3) do the best you can with the circumstances present. 
 

That’s really all any of us can do, right? 

My thinking is if it is going to result in huge debt then they can’t afford it.  

[Kidlit]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes.  There is somewhere in the middle of parents or grandparents paying or going to debt for 100k.  Kids staying at home through college is a huge costs savings that is rejected as an option because the whole ‘college experience’ has been sold and bought by so many.  

Yes. I agree with this.   This is the part we're giving up by our kids going local.  Granted, it is a bit different because they can move into dorms with no cost (and have, and will), but it's still not the same experience as not being ten miles from home. 

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, KSera said:

It does, but @Heartstrings point still stands that this is a different kind of presumption about the future, in that the point of the loan is usually  the idea that taking the loan out is what will allow you to pay it back. When you get a loan on a car or house, you're getting it for the purpose of the car or house based on the income you already have. Circumstances can change, and impact that income, but with a college loan, you're often betting specifically on that loan being what allows you to eventually have the income to pay it back, rather than taking it out with an income source to pay it back already in place. It does make it a different kind of financial gamble.

Yes it does and also if something tragic happens a car and house can be sold.  Student debt has to be prepaid no matter what happens.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

My first two years I went to community college and had no loans at all.  My parents were barely above the poverty line and between federal and state aid it was covered over 100% with money for textbooks.

And then I tried a state college for a semester, small loan.  At the end of my first semester I discovered they were ending my major and the suggested substitute major was not something I was interested in.  I transferred to a private LAC, losing all the credit I had from the state college because I was already at my limit of transferable credit. I actually wound up spending an extra year in college, and my parents literally went from poverty line to a very successful wealthy business owners between my first junior and second junior year. But they still couldn’t/wouldn’t contribute to college costs but I lost all federal aid except loans. I wound up financing two years of a very expensive school with a mixture of subsidized, unsubsidized and private loans.  19 years later I am still paying them off, mostly due to periods of grad school and hardship deferments.  But I’m on income based repayment and despite what looks like huge numbers, I’ve always been able to make the payments(and got hardship deferments during years I wasn’t working much due to pregnancies or surgeries).  
It can be managed.  Sometimes life and unexpected things just happen. 

[teachermom2834]

39 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes it does and also if something tragic happens a car and house can be sold.  Student debt has to be prepaid no matter what happens.  

Well, private student loan debt. Federal student loan debt has some protections built in. Sure people have issues that fall outside of the structures set up but if you are in a low paying job or become disabled or are unemployed for a period of time the federal student loans have protections built in. 

[marbel]

43 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Kids staying at home through college is a huge costs savings that is rejected as an option because the whole ‘college experience’ has been sold and bought by so many.  

Yes, but like so many other things, this varies by the student involved. I have one who was shy, friendless, awkward... and when the option for going away to school and living on campus presented itself, it gave a new opportunity for reinvention. This one tried activities they never would have tried before, learned they could make and keep friends, could try out all sorts of new things without the burden of the former self. And that one came home with a new sense of independence, capability, a bunch of friends, and a new attitude about life. Could this have happened while living at home? Maybe, maybe not. It was completely worth the small amount of federal student loan required to make this happen. 

I didn't have "the whole college experience" myself and while I guess I turned out OK, from watching my own kids enjoy it, I feel like my life would have been much enhanced by having had it. Which I think is part of what college is for. Someone (maybe SWB? don't really know) said "college is not job training" and I still believe in that. 

Of course, it's still not for everyone.