How our young people pick their friends and significant others

[SKL]

The cops / birthday party thread got me thinking about a situation in my life, and I didn't want to derail that thread.

One of mine chooses to befriend / date people who have psychological issues.  About a year ago, when someone asked why she is friends with Person X in spite of her well-known issues and unpopularity, my kid said, "because I know what it's like to struggle with a mental illness."  (My kid has OCD.)

If my kid chooses to continue down this path, it's likely to impact her life in various ways.  For one thing, it looks to me like her boyfriend is rather controlling, and she doesn't really know how to deal with this effectively.  Nor is she willing to talk about it.

The original point of this thread was just to muse and ask for a discussion about this phenomenon.  But secondly, I guess I would like to know how we can help our kids to not get damaged by other people's mental health nightmares.

Edited June 27, 2023 by SKL

[KSera]

Your kid sounds kind and at the same time like she may have a hard time with boundaries. I have one who sounds similar, and I think sometimes the kindness can mean they let people walk on them. I think helping kids know what healthy relationships do and don’t look like is one piece. I don’t think it’s a matter of teaching them to avoid relationships with people with mental health challenges, as one can have good or bad relationships with people with and without mental illness and I expect you wouldn’t want other parents advising their kids not to get into friendships or relationships with yours due to her OCD. 
 

I would be very concerned about a controlling boyfriend though. Would she read a book about boundaries? Does she have a therapist you could share the concern with? 

[TexasProud]

Yes, if you look at my dating record prior to my husband, I tended to bring home the wounded boys.  Heck, my husband is the only person I dated who is smarter than me/made better grades, more organized, etc. I tended to date those "misunderstood" young men.  Really scary when I look back on it now.  Every single young man I dated is now dead...  

For me, I was in college and my best friend sat me down and said, "You know, I don't see you marrying xxx.  I always thought you would marry someone like xxx."  I had been dating this young man for over 2 years and I thought...yeah, I can date him forever, but he isn't responsible enough to marry. Ever. I don't know. A lightbulb went off for some reason.  I loved him.  He loved me, but I realized I couldn't live with him forever. I would have to be responsible for SO much because of how irresponsible he is.  

Of course marrying someone who is exactly the opposite has its own share of challenges.  🙂

 

[Innisfree]

One thing I’ve encouraged my kids to do (without success so far 🙄) is to read an advice column written by someone who shows consistent good sense and understanding of relationships of various sorts. My personal favorite is Carolyn Hax, but ymmv. I think one can gain a lot of experience vicariously. It’s more palatable than listening to a parent’s advice, and cheaper than therapy (though we’ve done therapy when it was appropriate in the past).

Hax talks about boundaries, mental health issues, and abusive relationships. Sometimes it’s easier to learn these concepts when they’ve discussed in reference to someone else’s situation, not your own. There’s less emotional involvement to get in the way of intellectual understanding. The column has a good mix of human interest, compassion, humor, and psychological insight (though Hax is clear that she’s not trained in psychology). I find it very readable. You might find others that appeal to you more, but would offer some education in human relationships in an unthreatening way to your kids.

[HomeAgain]

I've noticed people tend to gravitate to others based on one of two things: either a shared trauma/feeling of self worth OR a situation in which one wants to fix the other and the other wants to let the first take lead.

I don't know which is healthier. Dh and I had our own mixed experience, making a good Joker & Harley Quinn until we got ourselves together.  But at the same time, we were also both driven and headstrong.  I see that same sort of mix in ds24 and his gf.  Except he's a fixer and she's willing to let him.  I actually worry more about them than I worry about youngest ds's future relationships.  He's never going to be satisfied without someone who he feels is his equal, and the child has enough self-confidence to share in abundance.

[teachermom2834]

My three boys are all in long term relationships with girls/women from less stable backgrounds. The young women themselves are not unstable- they are independent, head strong, hard working, smart ladies that have it together. But two come from situations that were so messed up you could say they raised themselves and one came from a family that was well to do in the community and had a big public messy embarrassing divorce while she was in high school and she has ongoing blended family issues to deal with. 
 

They are awesome- they have dealt with their trauma somehow and are functioning as successful young adults. But it is not lost on any of them (and they all joke about) how they all coupled up with the most stable (boring) guys. 
 

So it really can go either way. I don’t think these girls needed fixing but they were definitely seeking something in particular to change the pattern. 

[Scarlett]

Our youngest leans toward the damaged girl.  I have flat out told him he needs to examine why he is attracted to emotionally damaged girls.I told him he needs a partner not a project.  There was one girl last year that we feared would take him down.  Thankfully he saw the light and got away from her.  
 

Our oldest is married to a very unique girl.  I asked Dh if she is any thing like his ex wife.  He said, very very much. Dh’s e wife is petite,blonde, attractive in that valley girl way.  DIL is definitely red neck ‘Mercia’.  But there attitudes, ways of talking are very similar.    Childhood trauma and leaning toward parent of opposite sex is a real thing.  

Edited June 28, 2023 by Scarlett

[Rosie_0801]

Those sorts of discussions have been pretty constant around here. We've talked and read a lot about boundaries, dv, mental health, social patterns, why people, including ourselves, are the way they are, why we do and don't put up with it. Kid is doing well. She has had enough drama in her life that she doesn't go looking for more.

"That's a red flag" isn't worth much by itself. A person needs to understand how the pattern works.

It's also a lot easier to walk away from unhealthy situations when there is somewhere safe to go.

[popmom]

16 hours ago, SKL said:

The cops / birthday party thread got me thinking about a situation in my life, and I didn't want to derail that thread.

One of mine chooses to befriend / date people who have psychological issues.  About a year ago, when someone asked why she is friends with Person X in spite of her well-known issues and unpopularity, my kid said, "because I know what it's like to struggle with a mental illness."  (My kid has OCD.)

If my kid chooses to continue down this path, it's likely to impact her life in various ways.  For one thing, it looks to me like her boyfriend is rather controlling, and she doesn't really know how to deal with this effectively.  Nor is she willing to talk about it.

The original point of this thread was just to muse and ask for a discussion about this phenomenon.  But secondly, I guess I would like to know how we can help our kids to not get damaged by other people's mental health nightmares.

I have one (oldest dd25) who struggles in this area similarly. And then I have another younger dd who also befriends (but does not date--at all--period) similar, but is not personally affected. It's interesting. It's been quite a journey with the oldest as she has been in two serious but harmful/abusive romantic relationships. I am so, so grateful that she has had the courage each time to end it. But that doesn't solve why she ends up in these situations to begin with. We have talked about it. I am grateful she is willing to talk about it. There are many factors that play into it. I am hesitant to share much here... but I highly recommend Brene Brown's talks and materials on shame, trust, and vulnerability.

The younger one spent time recently with her older sister and older sister commented to me that she was a bit envious of this dd's ability to stay single. Younger dd is 22 and has never even been kissed. She's never had a boyfriend although she's broken a couple of hearts of boys who really wanted to date her.  She has no desire to play the dating game. It's just not worth it to her. She doesn't feel anxious about being alone like my older dd does. 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by popmom

[popmom]

2 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

It's also a lot easier to walk away from unhealthy situations when there is somewhere safe to go.

QFT 

100% agree. 

[popmom]

What are your thoughts on dating apps? My dd that has been in the unhealthy relationships--she uses them frequently to meet people. I am not a fan of them. She has yet to meet anyone who is "long term commitment material" through an app. She tells me that she has friends who met their spouses through these apps. No doubt it does work out for some, but clearly my dd needs some help in the area of discernment.

[Sneezyone]

If the expectation is that your kids will make the same choices you would (and I am VERY opinionated and hope they are) you're doomed to fail. That's not a thing. When oldest dated people that I *KNEW* were wrong, I said my gentle piece and let it go trusting that I'd shared critical issues/relationship priorities along the way. dating apps don't bother me. Following safety precautions and prioritizing your needs, preferences and intuition does. Be the safe, non-judgy space and they will come, voluntarily sharing successes and failures. There were *many* people in my life that one parent thought were bad/sub-par. They're still my friends today/productive adults. I hope that in raising our kids with discernment and grace they'll recognize and be able to effectively separate posers from genuinely good humans. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[popmom]

21 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

If the expectation is that your kids will make the same choices you would (and I am VERY opinionated and hope they are) you're doomed to fail. That's not a thing. When oldest dated people that I *KNEW* were wrong, I said my gentle piece and let it go trusting that I'd shared critical issues/relationship priorities along the way. dating apps don't bother me. Following safety precautions and prioritizing your needs, preferences and intuition does. Be the safe, non-judgy space and they will come, voluntarily sharing successes and failures. There were *many* people in my life that one parent thought were bad/sub-par. They're still my friends today/productive adults. I hope that in raising our kids with discernment ad grace they'll recognize and be able to effectively separate posers from genuinely good humans. 

I agree with what you are saying here 100%. I do not have any expectations as to who my girls should have a committed relationship with. I am a Christian, but I don't even expect my kids to hold to that worldview at all. Much less in dating.

My thing is why keep using apps when there are other ways of meeting people? It's easy is the only reason I can think of. I'm not against them altogether. I just think they are problematic for certain personality types. My dd has just had really, really bad luck with them. Like REALLY bad even for so called casual encounters. But as I said before--that's partially on her. 

She's going to be okay. I really know that. I just wish to reduce the crap she has to go through. It's not my job though ultimately. But as long as she wants to have that dialogue with me about this...I'm going to have an opinion. I'm very gentle with her. Seriously. This is hard stuff. Really hard at her age. I really empathize. I just want her to know her worth. She is getting there. 🙂

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by popmom

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, popmom said:

I agree with what you are saying here 100%. I do not have any expectations as to who my girls should have a committed relationship with. I am a Christian, but I don't even expect my kids to hold to that worldview at all. Much less in dating.

My thing is why keep using apps when there are other ways of meeting people? It's easy is the only reason I can think of. I'm not against them altogether. I just think they are problematic for certain personality types. My dd has just had really, really bad luck with them. Like REALLY bad even for so called casual encounters. But as I said before--that's partially on her. 

She's going to be okay. I really know that. I just wish to reduce the crap she has to go through. It's not my job though ultimately. But as long as she wants to have that dialogue with me about this...I'm going to have an opinion. 

 

ITA agree about the apps. My only guess, and only OP knows, is that is that the opportunities for more diverse engagements are limited. WE DON'T CHOOSE OUR KIDS. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[popmom]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

ITA agree about the apps. My only guess, and only OP knows, is that is that the opportunities for more diverse engagements in erso are limited. WE DON'T CHOOSE OUR KIDS. 

 

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

ITA agree about the apps. My only guess, and only OP knows, is that is that the opportunities for more diverse engagements in erso are limited. WE DON'T CHOOSE OUR KIDS. 

THE KIDS DON'T GET TO CHOOSE THEIR PARENTS EITHER. lol 🙂 it goes both ways. Except I am always cognizant that my kids didn't ask to be brought into this world.... very important distinction 🙂

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, popmom said:

THE KIDS DON'T GET TO CHOOSE THEIR PARENTS EITHER. lol 🙂 it goes both ways. Except I am always cognizant that my kids didn't ask to be brought into this world.... very important distinction 🙂

Indeed. All you can do is the best you can do.

[popmom]

@SKL I'll offer my 2 cents. I am a product of two very mentally ill, abusive parents. I have learned a lot about how to influence my own children based on that. Which means...sometimes I don't have the right to influence their decisions at all--which you already know I'm sure. 

I think the absolute best we can do is to be SAFE for our kids. Non judgmental. As much as that is possible. Our kids already know they are probably disappointing us, yk? They really do know ultimately (I believe) when they are not living up to the values we as parents raised them up to adhere to. (I mean...if they are making unwise choices) I really believe that shame is the primary barrier to intimacy--whatever the relationship is. I do NOT want shame to come between me and my kids. That is how I grew up, and I won't have it for my own family. 

My girls have shared some very painful things with me--things that many mothers would never ever know. It's painful, but I'm so grateful to have my daughters' trust. I'll bear those burdens with them--grieving but grateful.

There are limits, of course. My kids do respect me and dh enough that they take responsibility for their actions. They aren't asking much of us except for emotional support. There is always so much nuance to these situations. 

If we could just go back to when they were babies... aaaaahhhhh

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by popmom

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, popmom said:

@SKL I'll offer my 2 cents. I am a product of two very mentally ill, abusive parents. I have learned a lot about how to influence my own children based on that. Which means...sometimes I don't have the right to influence their decisions at all--which you already know I'm sure. 

I think the absolute best we can do is to be SAFE for our kids. Non judgmental. As much as that is possible. Our kids already know they are probably disappointing us, yk? They really do know ultimately (I believe) when they are not living up to the values we as parents raised them up to adhere to. (I mean...if they are making unwise choices) I really believe that shame is the primary barrier to intimacy--whatever the relationship is. I do NOT want shame to come between me and my kids. That is how I grew up, and I won't have it for my own family. 

My girls have shared some very painful things with me--things that many mothers would never ever know. It's painful, but I'm so grateful to have my daughters' trust. I'll bear those burdens with them--grieving but grateful.

There are limits, of course. My kids do respect me and dh enough that they take responsibility for their actions. They aren't asking much of us except for emotional support. There is always so much nuance to these situations. 

If we could just go back to when they were babies... aaaaahhhhh

 

ALL OF THIS. 

[popmom]

Another thing that is important to acknowledge is that... these are our kids FOR LIFE. Some of us didn't sign up for that! lol We thought that our kids would all end up really well adjusted adults who could take care of themselves and their offspring. I started realizing that isn't always the case many years ago when I got involved in foster care ministry. I am so grateful for that experience.

Always adjusting expectations based on each child's individual abilities. Mental illness, developmental disabilities, trauma, etc... all are factors in adjusting our expectations of how much our adult children will need us. And how they are able to form healthy relationships as adults.

eta: it's messy. relationships of all kinds are messy. no way around it unfortunately. I desperately wish for an "easy button", but... never gonna happen. 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by popmom

[Sneezyone]

5 hours ago, popmom said:

Another thing that is important to acknowledge is that... these are our kids FOR LIFE. Some of us didn't sign up for that! lol We thought that our kids would all end up really well adjusted adults who could take care of themselves and their offspring. I started realizing that isn't always the case many years ago when I got involved in foster care ministry. I am so grateful for that experience.

Always adjusting expectations based on each child's individual abilities. Mental illness, developmental disabilities, trauma, etc... all are factors in adjusting our expectations of how much our adult children will need us. And how they are able to form healthy relationships as adults.

eta: it's messy. relationships of all kinds are messy. no way around it unfortunately. I desperately wish for an "easy button", but... never gonna happen. 

 

 

And our sibs. SMH.

[heartlikealion]

Seems to me that a lot of people have a mental illness or challenge of some sort... I think it's more how they manage it than anything else. When I meet someone I don't ask them about their mental illnesses lol. It might not come up for some time. I'm pretty open but it doesn't mean I want to blurt out, "I have anxiety/depression/ocd and I take meds for it." 

[Corraleno]

On 6/27/2023 at 11:23 PM, popmom said:

My thing is why keep using apps when there are other ways of meeting people? It's easy is the only reason I can think of.

I think it's a bit of a vicious circle — most young adults use dating apps in part because some of those "other ways of meeting people" have become harder to find/use, so even the people who'd much rather meet potential partners in face to face situations end up relying on dating apps, which just further reduces other options. 

Even at a big university, which you'd think would provide tons of opportunities to meet potential partners, it's actually harder than you'd think — certainly much harder than when I was in college. For example, all of DS's big GE classes were online, and his in-person classes ranged from as few as 4 students to an upper limit of 25, and those were mostly required courses for his major, so it was the same group of students in every class. The 30+ hrs/wk devoted to varsity practice limited opportunities for other extra curricular activities, and he doesn't like crowded, noisy bars. Nearly ALL of his friends have met their partners through dating apps. He tried using an app, but he's not looking for a quick hook-up like most people are, and he feels like he really doesn't understand the unspoken "rules." For example, he once matched with a girl he thought would be really compatible, but he made the "mistake" of asking her out to dinner and she ghosted him — his friends told him that was a big red flag because a "dinner date" is too serious and it made him look desperate! 

[popmom]

1 minute ago, Corraleno said:

I think it's a bit of a vicious circle — most young adults use dating apps in part because some of those "other ways of meeting people" have become harder to find/use, so even the people who'd much rather meet potential partners in face to face situations end up relying on dating apps, which just further reduces other options. 

Even at a big university, which you'd think would provide tons of opportunities to meet potential partners, it's actually harder than you'd think — certainly much harder than when I was in college. For example, all of DS's big GE classes were online, and his in-person classes ranged from as few as 4 students to an upper limit of 25, and those were mostly required courses for his major, so it was the same group of students in every class. The 30+ hrs/wk devoted to varsity practice limited opportunities for other extra curricular activities, and he doesn't like crowded, noisy bars. Nearly ALL of his friends have met their partners through dating apps. He tried using an app, but he's not looking for a quick hook-up like most people are, and he feels like he really doesn't understand the unspoken "rules." For example, he once matched with a girl he thought would be really compatible, but he made the "mistake" of asking her out to dinner and she ghosted him — his friends told him that was a big red flag because a "dinner date" is too serious and it made him look desperate! 

My dd struggles similarly. That’s so crazy about the dinner date!! That’s what my dd is looking for! The amount of times she matches with someone and they immediately message her something s$&@al… It’s so discouraging. 
 

You are correct about the vicious cycle. I hadn’t thought about it that way. 

[SKL]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

Seems to me that a lot of people have a mental illness or challenge of some sort... I think it's more how they manage it than anything else. When I meet someone I don't ask them about their mental illnesses lol. It might not come up for some time. I'm pretty open but it doesn't mean I want to blurt out, "I have anxiety/depression/ocd and I take meds for it." 

In my daughter's case, these are people she's known for some time (sometimes years).  One is a female friend whom everyone else has pretty much abandoned.  She is just too much for most people.  She's too much for my kid in some ways, but my kid stays friends with her ... and I'm glad she does, as long as she knows what to say "no" to.

The boyfriend - they got to know each other at a summer camp last year, and then they were in a chat group of kids who have certain things in common.  A lot of the kids in the group have psychological stuff going on, and I don't think they are shy to share this info once they form friendships.  It's not like we're hanging out a banner "looking for a boyfriend on meds."  😛

The boyfriend thing ... without anyone sharing with me, I can only observe ... they seem happy to see each other, but she never says no to him.  In the past, he's been suicidal to the point of needing to be rushed to the hospital.  Periodically he will say "I should just kill myself."  I think my kid may be afraid to upset him in case his reaction is extreme.

[Farrar]

I don't think dating apps are really the issue. They don't hurt or help the issues that lead people with poor boundaries to have poor relationships. People I know who have used them a lot seem like they repeat the same patterns they've had in relationships outside of them, whether good or bad.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Farrar

[Lecka]

My 18yo son thinks that because of dating apps, it’s considered pushy and rude to meet girls in the kinds of situations where to me it would be desirable.  

Like, he doesn’t think a club is a good place, because women don’t join a club to have to deal with guys possibly asking them out or flirting with them.

 

I don’t know if he is right about this being what others his age think?  Or if I’m missing some detail?

 

He thinks it is possible to end up dating someone you have met in another way, but that in general you are “supposed to” meet people on dating apps.  
 

Or that is what he told me!

[Corraleno]

11 minutes ago, Lecka said:

My 18yo son thinks that because of dating apps, it’s considered pushy and rude to meet girls in the kinds of situations where to me it would be desirable.  

Like, he doesn’t think a club is a good place, because women don’t join a club to have to deal with guys possibly asking them out or flirting with them.

 

I don’t know if he is right about this being what others his age think?  Or if I’m missing some detail?

 

He thinks it is possible to end up dating someone you have met in another way, but that in general you are “supposed to” meet people on dating apps.  
 

Or that is what he told me!

That lines up with what DS says his friends have told him. That's part of the vicious circle that makes it so hard to meet people without using apps — there is an assumption that if someone is looking for a relationship, then they will be on a dating app, so it's inappropriate to "hit on" someone you meet in a class or other activity. The exception is bars, where some people may be looking for a hook up — but again that's mostly suitable for people looking for a casual hook up rather than an actual relationship. It's really tough for young people who are looking for a meaningful relationship and don't want to use dating apps or cruise bars or crash frat parties.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Corraleno

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, Lecka said:

My 18yo son thinks that because of dating apps, it’s considered pushy and rude to meet girls in the kinds of situations where to me it would be desirable.  
Like, he doesn’t think a club is a good place, because women don’t join a club to have to deal with guys possibly asking them out or flirting with them.

I don’t know if he is right about this being what others his age think?  Or if I’m missing some detail?

He thinks it is possible to end up dating someone you have met in another way, but that in general you are “supposed to” meet people on dating apps.  

Or that is what he told me!

I have heard this from my YAs too (that it's now 'weird' to approach someone IRL), though none of them are fans of dating apps.  One of them is already married, to someone she met in a college club, the other two have tried the apps - one did meet someone that lasted a while that way -  but both are currently with people they met IRL.

[Farrar]

My YA who is dating is not on an app (that I know of). He met his gf at college just in the old fashioned way you meet people when you attend a residential college. Honestly, the launching to adulthood life skills (how to meet someone and just ask them out being one of those) that YA's get by attending a residential college is one of the main reasons I'm a huge proponent of that life path. I feel like it's undervalued these days. 

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, Farrar said:

My YA who is dating is not on an app (that I know of). He met his gf at college just in the old fashioned way you meet people when you attend a residential college. Honestly, the launching to adulthood life skills (how to meet someone and just ask them out being one of those) that YA's get by attending a residential college is one of the main reasons I'm a huge proponent of that life path. I feel like it's undervalued these days. 

Yep. My socially awkward kiddo is being thrust into that lane, one meetup at a time. My DD met her current GF the same, old fashioned way. She was their party’s server at a restaurant.

[kathyl]

nm

Edited July 8, 2023 by kathyl

[heartlikealion]

5 hours ago, SKL said:

In my daughter's case, these are people she's known for some time (sometimes years).  One is a female friend whom everyone else has pretty much abandoned.  She is just too much for most people.  She's too much for my kid in some ways, but my kid stays friends with her ... and I'm glad she does, as long as she knows what to say "no" to.

The boyfriend - they got to know each other at a summer camp last year, and then they were in a chat group of kids who have certain things in common.  A lot of the kids in the group have psychological stuff going on, and I don't think they are shy to share this info once they form friendships.  It's not like we're hanging out a banner "looking for a boyfriend on meds."  😛

The boyfriend thing ... without anyone sharing with me, I can only observe ... they seem happy to see each other, but she never says no to him.  In the past, he's been suicidal to the point of needing to be rushed to the hospital.  Periodically he will say "I should just kill myself."  I think my kid may be afraid to upset him in case his reaction is extreme.

His mental illness is a concern with reactions like this. The controlling thing you mentioned in the first post was a red flag to me. Controlling on its own is a problem and may or may not have any connection to their mental illness. 

She’s trying to save him or she feels stuck. Super unhealthy. He needs to be redirected to professional help somehow. A suicide hotline, counselors etc. She doesn’t need the burden of a codependent. 

Has she seen Renfield? Lol I kid but the movie touches on that. 

Get her out of there. It’s only going to get worse! 

[heartlikealion]

And I’d try to find out if she has trouble saying no in general or just to him. Definitely something to work on. 

[heartlikealion]

5 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I think it's a bit of a vicious circle — most young adults use dating apps in part because some of those "other ways of meeting people" have become harder to find/use, so even the people who'd much rather meet potential partners in face to face situations end up relying on dating apps, which just further reduces other options. 

Even at a big university, which you'd think would provide tons of opportunities to meet potential partners, it's actually harder than you'd think — certainly much harder than when I was in college. For example, all of DS's big GE classes were online, and his in-person classes ranged from as few as 4 students to an upper limit of 25, and those were mostly required courses for his major, so it was the same group of students in every class. The 30+ hrs/wk devoted to varsity practice limited opportunities for other extra curricular activities, and he doesn't like crowded, noisy bars. Nearly ALL of his friends have met their partners through dating apps. He tried using an app, but he's not looking for a quick hook-up like most people are, and he feels like he really doesn't understand the unspoken "rules." For example, he once matched with a girl he thought would be really compatible, but he made the "mistake" of asking her out to dinner and she ghosted him — his friends told him that was a big red flag because a "dinner date" is too serious and it made him look desperate! 

If they hadn’t talked on the app long, maybe that was the issue more so than the date location/time. Like if she said hi and the same evening he asked her out… too much too soon maybe? My theory on her ghosting. 

Semi-related — the dating app world is saturated in avoidants attachment types. They stay single, become single often. Secure attachment style is hard to find. They are often taken! And lastly is the anxious attachment style. Anxious & avoidant often meet and it doesn’t work.