On Grinches and Marital Differences of Opinion - Fiscal Edition

[Sneezyone]

I'm not sure where I'm going with this but having a college-bound high school senior has brought certain, ahem, differences of opinion to a head in my household. Mostly, I'm just hoping I'm not alone and wondering how others have navigated this issue.

Givens:

1. I have always known senior year and college expenses would take a big bite out of our funds.
2. DH has always raged against the reality of the thing (mostly to me).
3. Undergraduate expenses are stupid and OTT.
4. We can manage and we are prepared.

Still, the snippy, hyperbolic comments DH makes from time to time are getting to us all (e.g. to me and the children--"I'm never retiring. I can't afford it."). Dude, we PLANNED for this and the time has come to execute! I'm sure he partially thinks he's being funny and endearing but I don't find it so and neither, I think, do the kids. Youngest has started to tamp down on his areas of interest, declining to explore passions in favor of taking every DE/AP class available because DH keeps saying his passions are a dead end, a poor use of money, and have low ROI. None of which is necessarily true.

Over the years, I've frequently referenced and encouraged him to watch the original Father of the Bride movie (because DH=George Banks). This weekend he finally watched and said, "I'd have stayed in jail." and "Do you know how much that wedding cost?!" Like, DUDE!! NOT THE TAKEAWAY I WAS HOPING FOR!

So, yeah, just looking for tips, suggestions, BTDT advice on bridging this gap, helping him appreciate where we are in life, and how best to support the kiddos through launch.

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[SKL]

You've saved up and created a cushion against financial stress, and maybe that's been keeping his stress at bay up to now.

I am a person who tends to stress way too much about money.  My kids are coming up on college applications.  I was very content when they were talking about going to the nearby, driveable, affordable state university.  Every time one of them expresses a more expensive desire, parts of my brain try to explode.  And I'm probably not communicating the right messages.

I am not sure what will help your individual, but maybe having a clear distinction, on paper, between your sufficient rainy day funds, retirement funds, and education funds?  Discuss how you're secure without needing the education funds for anything other than education.  And that you're committed to sticking to a budget as far as the education funds go.

I don't think it's a terrible thing to be practical about education expenses.  My kids have chosen paths (for now) that are unlikely to make anyone rich.  And that's fine and great, but I don't see spending mega bucks to get them there.  I think it's a worthwhile discussion, and high school seniors can be a part of that.

[Sneezyone]

11 minutes ago, SKL said:

You've saved up and created a cushion against financial stress, and maybe that's been keeping his stress at bay up to now.

I am a person who tends to stress way too much about money.  My kids are coming up on college applications.  I was very content when they were talking about going to the nearby, driveable, affordable state university.  Every time one of them expresses a more expensive desire, parts of my brain try to explode.  And I'm probably not communicating the right messages.

I am not sure what will help your individual, but maybe having a clear distinction, on paper, between your sufficient rainy day funds, retirement funds, and education funds?  Discuss how you're secure without needing the education funds for anything other than education.  And that you're committed to sticking to a budget as far as the education funds go.

I don't think it's a terrible thing to be practical about education expenses.  My kids have chosen paths (for now) that are unlikely to make anyone rich.  And that's fine and great, but I don't see spending mega bucks to get them there.  I think it's a worthwhile discussion, and high school seniors can be a part of that.

I feel like I was practical in what I advised oldest (turned out DH made a miscalculation so we had two fewer years of GI Bill than expected) but even that is surmountable b/c DS is a high-stat student who is well within auto merit ranges at most institutions and we STILL have 529 savings. DH is always kinda glass half-empty, e.g. "He's only had 6 HS classes!!" but DS's has ALWAYS been a high GPA kid. He's compliant and high-achieving. It's just hard. The declining balances are like a physical blow to him. I blame his childhood poverty. Just wanna help him turn the corner toward a more appreciative mindset.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

16 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I feel like I was practical in what I advised oldest (turned out DH made a miscalculation so we had two fewer years of GI Bill than expected) but even that is surmountable b/c DS is a high-stat student who is well within auto merit ranges at most institutions. DH is always kinda glass half-empty, e.g. "He's only had 6 HS classes!!" but DS's has ALWAYS been a high GPA kid. He's compliant and high-achieving. It's just hard. The declining balances are like a physical blow. I blame his childhood poverty.

I feel this.  I am going to be there in a few years, I am pretty sure. DH grew up in poverty and though he won’t admit that he is affected by it, it becomes more and more evident.  We are close to making enough where I don’t have to work(if we weren’t helping support other people we’d be there now), we will have college savings and access to great state schools plus our kids will likely graduate HS with an associate’s degree; but DH has chosen extremely practical things in life(construction, an AS degree in criminal justice, then working his way through the ranks as a paramedic) and seeing that balance dwindle for DS’s history degree or whatever he chooses is going to drive him crazy. At the moment he’s complaining about the money I’m spending on a field trip tomorrow.  It’s well within, even below, my budget for field trips, but just seeing the numbers lessen makes him anxious. Though he would never ever admit that it’s anxiety or rooted in childhood poverty.

I wish I had more than commiseration, but I will be watching this thread because I know I’ll need it in the future. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Mrs Tiggywinkle Again

[SKL]

Also, the way I see it, you can apply all you want, but acceptance isn't all you need to get to a dream school.  Then you have to look at the practicalities.  If your children demonstrate that they really understand what that means, then your dh might feel calmer about it.

[Scarlett]

Do you think any of his points are valid or reasonable even if they do not agree with your financial philosophy?

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Do you think any of his points are valid or reasonable even if they do not agree with your financial philosophy?

I can’t speak for the OP, but with DH, even the reasonable, valid financial points he makes are overshadowed by this anxiety thats rooted in not having enough money or the financial cushion he feels he needs(right now we have a year and a half worth of income that while we’d prefer to keep for retirement we could tap into if absolutely necessary—but that isn’t enough for him to feel comfortable).  So even if he’s making a reasonable point, it’s rooted in something that’s neither reality or reasonable.

I don’t know if that makes sense. 

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Do you think any of his points are valid or reasonable even if they do not agree with your financial philosophy?

Yes. I agree that the expectations for parental contribution are insane and unjustifiable, especially for families like ours that are 1st gen. upper middle class, financially supporting relatives, paying off student loans, etc. Still, we HAVE the resources and it won't overly burden us to pay up. It's more a psychological issue than a financial one.

[Eos]

31 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

his passions are a dead end, a poor use of money, and have low ROI.

So sorry.  Just hugs.  I would be super bummed if this was my dh's attitude.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Yes. I agree that the expectations for parental contribution are insane and unjustifiable, especially for families like ours that are 1st gen. upper middle class, financially supporting relatives, paying off student loans, etc. Still, we HAVE the resources and it won't overly burden us to pay up. It's more a psychological issue than a financial one.

I think I mean more of his philosophy of what is reasonable to spend on education.  Sometimes upper middle class—especially first generation—feel compelled to do their kid’s education a certain way even if there are other less expensive options. 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Scarlett said:

I think I mean more of his philosophy of what is reasonable to spend on education.  Sometimes upper middle class—especially first generation—feel compelled to do their kid’s education a certain way even if there are other less expensive options. 

That's fair. We've both heavily prioritized debt-free education b/c I had to take out big sums. We funded his education using tuition reimbursement, cash flow, and (as it turned out) the missing part of the GI Bill. The schools we helped oldest select are all debt-free options. His biggest concern is the overall expense/sticker price. Our actual outlays will be significantly smaller.

[Carol in Cal.]

There are some communities that almost unconsciously discourage their kids from aiming too high for fear that they will ‘outgrow’ their parents.  DH has hints of this in his background, deeply buried, but I took him aside and had a heart to heart about how we should want our kids to outstrip our own achievements, and he tamped down on the potshots.  Like,  “Don’t reach too high or you’ll be disappointed, or you’ll disappoint me,” is not a message I ever want us to convey.  Don’t know whether that is part of the issue in your case, but I think it might be worth considering.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

That's fair. We've both heavily prioritized debt-free education b/c I had to take out big sums. We funded his education using tuition reimbursement, cash flow, and (as it turned out) the missing part of the GI Bill. The schools we helped oldest select are all debt-free options. His biggest concern is the overall expense/sticker price. Our actual outlays will be significantly smaller.

Oh ok.  In that case, yeah, he is probably just trying to be funny. Probably just need to kindly point out he is marshing your kid’s mellow with all the jokes. 

[Beth S]

I was your DH.  I honestly didn't think we (us + each kid) could afford college.
But you know?  It worked out.

3 ended up locally, with mostly full scholarships.
2 ended up with tuition scholarships and very affordable/thrifty room & board.

I remember being low-level anxious about it, & am just now relaxing as Child #5 is a junior & has maintained the GPA needed for his out-of-state tuition (yes, which was about $100K over 4 years).

Ways you can help?  Research automatic scholarships.  Talk about finding affordable options, not huge student loans.
We contributed a set amount to each child, each semester.
They knew they could count on that money.
We offered to LOAN them additional money, if they needed it.
Some took out a small amount of student loans.

I'm just trying to say that there are ways to "meet in the middle" --- but I think it ended up being conversations between ALL of us.

(We did the same thing for weddings---offered a set amount.   They then budgeted accordingly.)

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

There are some communities that almost unconsciously discourage their kids from aiming too high for fear that they will ‘outgrow’ their parents.  DH has hints of this in his background, deeply buried, but I took him aside and had a heart to heart about how we should want our kids to outstrip our own achievements, and he tamped down on the potshots.  Like,  “Don’t reach too high or you’ll be disappointed, or you’ll disappoint me,” is not a message I ever want us to convey.  Don’t know whether that is part of the issue in your case, but I think it might be worth considering.

He's expressed a lot of concern that their lives are too easy so they're not having to make the same choices we did. DD, for ex., was offered a full ride if she went into the Marine Corps but turned it down after speaking to our military friends/family (women). To his mind, that was a golden ticket for education and a good-paying job (which is true!) but DD has overall lifestyle in mind and wants a family which I totally appreciate too.

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, Beth S said:

I was your DH.  I honestly didn't think we (us + each kid) could afford college.
But you know?  It worked out.

3 ended up locally, with mostly full scholarships.
2 ended up with tuition scholarships and very affordable/thrifty room & board.

I remember being low-level anxious about it, & am just now relaxing as Child #5 is a junior & has maintained the GPA needed for his out-of-state tuition (yes, which was about $100K over 4 years).

Ways you can help?  Research automatic scholarships.  Talk about finding affordable options, not huge student loans.
We contributed a set amount to each child, each semester.
They knew they could count on that money.
We offered to LOAN them additional money, if they needed it.
Some took out a small amount of student loans.

I'm just trying to say that there are ways to "meet in the middle" --- but I think it ended up being conversations between ALL of us.

(We did the same thing for weddings---offered a set amount.   They then budgeted accordingly.)

Thanks. I think I need to step up my game with scholarships for youngest. He's an excellent candidate and if I can demonstrate that DH might relax a bit.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Beth S]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Thanks. I think I need to step up my game with scholarships for youngest. He's an excellent candidate and if I can demonstrate that DH might relax a bit.

As homeschoolers, we weren't trying to get a golf scholarship.  😉We focused on ACT scores, and those charts for automatic merit scholarships are generally published on the university's website. 
Yes, we needed a tutor to get Child #5's math subscore high enough. 

Honestly, I think the student loan crisis has demonstrated that the sky CANNOT be the limit when choosing a college. 
And your kids become more mature and informed as they research the TRUE options that are available to them.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Beth S said:

As homeschoolers, we weren't trying to get a golf scholarship.  😉We focused on ACT scores, and those charts for automatic merit scholarships are generally published on the university's website. 
Yes, we needed a tutor to get Child #5's math subscore high enough. 

Honestly, I think the student loan crisis has demonstrated that the sky CANNOT be the limit when choosing a college. 
And your kids become more mature and informed as they research the TRUE options that are available to them.

Yes. I've retooled based on the revised eligibility issue by finding a tutor for DS's weakest subject area/test prep. They'll be able to work together long-term and hopefully we'll see positive results. I think test scores may become irrelevant as far as admissions soon but may help with merit so we're gonna do what we can there. Otherwise, no, the sky is not the limit. I really don't feel like DH and I are all that far apart on the practicalities. It's more of...I dunno...attitude? I realize I'm not always the most easygoing person but I promise that my DH is 1000% more intense where money is concerned, lol.

[Indigo Blue]

It may help to know that when college semesters begin to roll around and you begin to see that your whole pot of savings doesn’t get sucked up in one fell swoop. Sometimes, in our minds, we think of that total cost and panic. It’s one semester at a time. You pay for that one and you have time to prepare for the next. I was a bit panicky, but then I began to see that we were getting through one step at a time. It helped, and I was able to relax and know it would work out. It’s a bit daunting at first. 

[Clemsondana]

Could you get him to a point where you have an agreed-upon budget/limit and then he agrees to not comment as long as the kids are working within that framework?  Kind of like on the HGTV shows, where people set a budget for the renovation, and they decide within that budget how to allocate it, but they don't go back and complain about the cost as long as it stays within that budget?  If the kids are suggesting schools or programs that are unworkable, that's different.  But, if they aren't, it's not really fair to them to create extra stress and guilt when they are doing what they've been told to do.  Not that he's trying to do that, but it seems like a possible result.  It's always a little disturbing to realize how much our kids are shaped by the hang-ups that we bring to adulthood, but if we can name them then there's at least a chance of tamping them down. 

[Sneezyone]

19 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

Could you get him to a point where you have an agreed-upon budget/limit and then he agrees to not comment as long as the kids are working within that framework?  Kind of like on the HGTV shows, where people set a budget for the renovation, and they decide within that budget how to allocate it, but they don't go back and complain about the cost as long as it stays within that budget?  If the kids are suggesting schools or programs that are unworkable, that's different.  But, if they aren't, it's not really fair to them to create extra stress and guilt when they are doing what they've been told to do.  Not that he's trying to do that, but it seems like a possible result.  It's always a little disturbing to realize how much our kids are shaped by the hang-ups that we bring to adulthood, but if we can name them then there's at least a chance of tamping them down. 

I can try, thx.

[Katy]

I don’t have college specific advice, but my DH has catastrophic thinking in other areas. For him it’s being triggered by one of our special needs kids. Said child behaves like his younger sibling did as a child and is expressive and dramatic, as opposed to DH who tends to suppress negative feelings rather than express them.

Ironically DH’s dramatic sibling was the most rapidly independent and financially successful adult of anyone in his extended family, so it’s pretty easy eventually to rationalize him out of his spiraling… but it’s difficult to get him alone in the middle of it so after discussing it with him privately a few times now I’m a bit rude. I interrupt him and say, “That’s not true. Stop the catastrophic ranting.” DH doesn’t appreciate this, but I think the ranting instead of trying to change specific behaviors is borderline emotionally abusive. None of our kids should be thinking or worrying about any of his irrational lines of thought.  I have theories about the sibling’s drama at this age coinciding with when MIL abandoned the family, but we haven’t specifically discussed that yet. 

All of which is to say I’d probably start with sitting him down and asking where this is coming from and how rational it is. 

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

I don’t have college specific advice, but my DH has catastrophic thinking in other areas. For him it’s being triggered by one of our special needs kids. Said child behaves like his younger sibling did as a child and is expressive and dramatic, as opposed to DH who tends to suppress negative feelings rather than express them.

Ironically DH’s dramatic sibling was the most rapidly independent and financially successful adult of anyone in his extended family, so it’s pretty easy eventually to rationalize him out of his spiraling… but it’s difficult to get him alone in the middle of it so after discussing it with him privately a few times now I’m a bit rude. I interrupt him and say, “That’s not true. Stop the catastrophic ranting.” DH doesn’t appreciate this, but I think the ranting instead of trying to change specific behaviors is borderline emotionally abusive. None of our kids should be thinking or worrying about any of his irrational lines of thought.  I have theories about the sibling’s drama at this age coinciding with when MIL abandoned the family, but we haven’t specifically discussed that yet. 

All of which is to say I’d probably start with sitting him down and asking where this is coming from and how rational it is. 

The bolded resonates. We can work on this. I would very much like to put the ball in his court to find ways to make this whole process more comfy for him. I mean, srsly., we do have one more to go. This is just the beginning.

[Faith-manor]

5 minutes ago, Katy said:

I don’t have college specific advice, but my DH has catastrophic thinking in other areas. For him it’s being triggered by one of our special needs kids. Said child behaves like his younger sibling did as a child and is expressive and dramatic, as opposed to DH who tends to suppress negative feelings rather than express them.

Ironically DH’s dramatic sibling was the most rapidly independent and financially successful adult of anyone in his extended family, so it’s pretty easy eventually to rationalize him out of his spiraling… but it’s difficult to get him alone in the middle of it so after discussing it with him privately a few times now I’m a bit rude. I interrupt him and say, “That’s not true. Stop the catastrophic ranting.” DH doesn’t appreciate this, but I think the ranting instead of trying to change specific behaviors is borderline emotionally abusive. None of our kids should be thinking or worrying about any of his irrational lines of thought.  I have theories about the sibling’s drama at this age coinciding with when MIL abandoned the family, but we haven’t specifically discussed that yet. 

All of which is to say I’d probably start with sitting him down and asking where this is coming from and how rational it is. 

Thank you for stopping your dh. My mother always let our father catastrophize and just all out lose it in front of us, sometimes off relatively easily solvable problems, and it had a very negative effect on us. 

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

. The declining balances are like a physical blow to him. I blame his childhood poverty. Just wanna help him turn the corner toward a more appreciative mindset.

My DH don’t even have childhood poverty to blame, he grew up lower middle class. He didn’t allow DS18 to apply to any private colleges last year and DS18 was rejected from the state universities. This year DH allowed applications to private universities but DS18 doesn’t have the EA/ED option anymore and have to compete for transfer admissions.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Arcadia
clarification

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Arcadia said:

My DH don’t even have childhood poverty to blame, he grew up lower middle class. He didn’t allow DS18 to apply to any private colleges last year and DS18 was rejected from the state universities. This year he allowed applications to private universities but he doesn’t have the EA/ED option anymore and have to compete for transfer admissions.

I am grateful that DH has confined his objections to snide commentary. He hasn’t been near as hands on with their schooling as I have. He both trusts that I’m right and feels some kinda way about all of it. I’m sorry that happened to your kiddos. I know they’re talented!

[footballmom]

Step 1: “DH, what outcome are you looking for from comment xyz? Because it feels very (shaming, demeaning, invalidating their goals, whatever word choice is right). So what are you hoping your comment will accomplish?”

[Sneezyone]

12 minutes ago, footballmom said:

Step 1: “DH, what outcome are you looking for from comment xyz? Because it feels very (shaming, demeaning, invalidating their goals, whatever word choice is right). So what are you hoping your comment will accomplish?”

I will try this. The hard part is that much of it seems to be happening outside of my presence.
 

I see the effect in DS retreating and revising his plans (his language as to why is so reminiscent of DH that I know that’s where it came from, IYKWIM?). DS doesn’t initiate a lot of talk so I have to tease out where his ideas come from. DH is here, HERE most of the time now, even if he’s traveling 3-4 days a week. He used to be deployed more but he’s prioritized spending more time with them before they leave (which we all value/appreciate very much). It’s a balance as far as letting him parent as he sees fit and intervening.

DS/DH go off and do ‘guy stuff’ (usually involving solitary reading in bookstores), find as many donut and cookie shops as possible en route, and talk shop. SMK. 1st world problems.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Garga]

Have you told him yet what you told us in the OP? Or are you waiting to gather some ideas from The Hive before you tackle the conversation?

Edited January 29, 2023 by Garga

[Sneezyone]

38 minutes ago, Garga said:

Have you told him yet what you told us in the OP? Or are you waiting to gather some ideas from The Hive before you tackle the conversation?

We’ve talked. It’s why he watched the movie with me. I was sooooo annoyed by his reaction but the last day or so he’s tried to do better. To his credit, he also said, “I just want to eat a plate and see them drive away happy too” so he kinda, sorta, maybe, got something more out of it. When his financial angst is directed at the kids, who aren’t in a position to say boo, I feel very protective. Just looking for more ideas. I’m not naive enough to feel like a single romcom has cured his lifelong tendencies.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Wishes]

Maybe just focusing on the relationship aspect with the kids. It sounds like he really values that and may not understand the harm it causes. I know when one of my family members made those type of comments, it would make me feel bad about myself which in turn would lead to resentment. I know that is not what they meant to do, but it’s frustrating when, as a young person  you’re told things will be taken care of (financially) even though you haven’t actually asked for that help and then made to feel bad about taking that financial assistance.

[Ausmumof3]

Are your kids working or contributing toward costs at all assuming they’re old enough too? That seems to allay DH’s concerns somewhat as they’re often more about the kids expecting everything rather than learning to work for it. Otherwise yeah, we’ve had similar conversations. That’s part of what motivated me to go back to work.

[Carrie12345]

4 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

We’ve talked. It’s why he watched the movie with me. I was sooooo annoyed by his reaction but the last day or so he’s tried to do better. To his credit, he also said, “I just want to eat a plate and see them drive away happy too” so he kinda, sorta, maybe, got something more out of it. When his financial angst is directed at the kids, who aren’t in a position to say boo, I feel very protective. Just looking for more ideas. I’m not naive enough to feel like a single romcom has cured his lifelong tendencies.

In your conversations, just how angsty does his angst truly seem?

I noticed that I make certain financial comments out of a flippant habit. I feel like I’m almost socially programmed to talk about big expenses with phrases like “going broke” and “headed for the poor house” just as casually as sitting down to a meal and saying “Excellent, I’m starving!” as if I was anywhere near starvation.

 I’m trying to do better with those types of things, but I didn’t used to think about how the kids would process them.

[Clemsondana]

I like the suggestion above to ask 'What are you wanting to accomplish with this comment?' or maybe tell the kids that it's OK to ask 'What do you want me to do?' when  he says something. 

One of my own parenting hang-ups is about not asking kids to deal with things that they can't actually do anything about because it creates stress that they can't get rid of.  A simple example is that instead of making them angsty about various social problems I encourage them to be good stewards or volunteer or do whatever is in their capabilities.  They can't solve the problem of poverty - they can't even vote yet - but they can get unneeded clothes out of their rooms and into the donation bag so that somebody else can use them and help me gather food for the blessing box in our community.  

In that vein, whether it comes from the kids or you, could the family find out what concrete actions he wants the kids to take?  If he has reasonable ones - wanting the kids to investigate scholarships or to focus on schools that will cost less than X or have automatic aid, at least that's a starting point.  If he doesn't have anything that he's wanting them to do, and he realizes this, then it might be easier at that point to suggest that venting such that it transfers the stress and guilt from him to the kids isn't the best option for making these last few years at home pleasant.  

[Sneezyone]

6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Are your kids working or contributing toward costs at all assuming they’re old enough too? That seems to allay DH’s concerns somewhat as they’re often more about the kids expecting everything rather than learning to work for it. Otherwise yeah, we’ve had similar conversations. That’s part of what motivated me to go back to work.

DS doesn’t work but oldest does. Her earnings cover gas, property tax for her car, and any other fun stuff like movies, clothes, etc.    Neither of us expects them to contribute a ton just due to their after school activities. DD will, hopefully, save some college spending money once her last cheer season ends.

[Sneezyone]

3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

In your conversations, just how angsty does his angst truly seem?

I noticed that I make certain financial comments out of a flippant habit. I feel like I’m almost socially programmed to talk about big expenses with phrases like “going broke” and “headed for the poor house” just as casually as sitting down to a meal and saying “Excellent, I’m starving!” as if I was anywhere near starvation.

 I’m trying to do better with those types of things, but I didn’t used to think about how the kids would process them.

Definitely a couple notches above this. He says it from his gut and we all know he means it. If we look at him and groan, he’ll throw his hands up and adopt an innocent face and say it’s true, or I’m not wrong. He’s definitely more conscious of it.

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

I like the suggestion above to ask 'What are you wanting to accomplish with this comment?' or maybe tell the kids that it's OK to ask 'What do you want me to do?' when  he says something. 

One of my own parenting hang-ups is about not asking kids to deal with things that they can't actually do anything about because it creates stress that they can't get rid of.  A simple example is that instead of making them angsty about various social problems I encourage them to be good stewards or volunteer or do whatever is in their capabilities.  They can't solve the problem of poverty - they can't even vote yet - but they can get unneeded clothes out of their rooms and into the donation bag so that somebody else can use them and help me gather food for the blessing box in our community.  

In that vein, whether it comes from the kids or you, could the family find out what concrete actions he wants the kids to take?  If he has reasonable ones - wanting the kids to investigate scholarships or to focus on schools that will cost less than X or have automatic aid, at least that's a starting point.  If he doesn't have anything that he's wanting them to do, and he realizes this, then it might be easier at that point to suggest that venting such that it transfers the stress and guilt from him to the kids isn't the best option for making these last few years at home pleasant.  

This is very helpful, thanks.

[Garga]

I have no idea if this is a good idea or not, but…

What if you pulled the kids aside and talked to them about how their dad wasn’t always a dad? He used to be a kid and a teenager who grew up in poverty and that has left some scars. Assure them that you and he have a solid plan to pay for college, but their dad is working through dealing with the leftover hangups from when he was a kid.

Tell them not to take any of his comments personally, but to realize that he’s having to unpack a lot of old scars right now and sometimes that’s messy. Tell them that you and he are talking while he works through it, but sometimes his anxieties about money might slip out in those odd comments. They don’t need to take them personally. Dad will get through it and you’ll be right there to help him. Meanwhile, they are to forge ahead with their own paths and futures. 

I don’t know if that would work in your family, but maybe if they see him as a person with his own sets of anxieties and scars instead of just Dad, they would understand what’s going on here and feel compassion toward him and then not take on his anxieties for themselves. 

[Sneezyone]

29 minutes ago, Garga said:

I have no idea if this is a good idea or not, but…

What if you pulled the kids aside and talked to them about how their dad wasn’t always a dad? He used to be a kid and a teenager who grew up in poverty and that has left some scars. Assure them that you and he have a solid plan to pay for college, but their dad is working through dealing with the leftover hangups from when he was a kid.

Tell them not to take any of his comments personally, but to realize that he’s having to unpack a lot of old scars right now and sometimes that’s messy. Tell them that you and he are talking while he works through it, but sometimes his anxieties about money might slip out in those odd comments. They don’t need to take them personally. Dad will get through it and you’ll be right there to help him. Meanwhile, they are to forge ahead with their own paths and futures. 

I don’t know if that would work in your family, but maybe if they see him as a person with his own sets of anxieties and scars instead of just Dad, they would understand what’s going on here and feel compassion toward him and then not take on his anxieties for themselves. 

Oh, this is very helpful, thanks! It’s actually something I can ‘control’/do. I think they would appreciate the charge to give him some reassurance too, that they recognize it’s a big deal to him, appreciate what he’s doing, and won’t squander the money.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Sneezyone

[SKL]

I remember when I was a kid, a lot of things that were done by the older generation were explained by "they lived through the depression."  I do agree with talking to your kids about lasting effects of long-term financial stress.

As for dad working on unpacking etc. ... the thing is, this may not happen until well after the kids' education is done, if it ever happens at all.

TBH I still have a really hard time with discretionary spending.  One thing that makes me relatively extravagant for my kids is the "now or never" feeling, since kids grow and change so rapidly.    There's a short window of time to figure out the right thing to do.

For that reason, I think having a set budget for education might help.  The amount isn't up for discussion on a day-to-day basis, assuming no extreme situations occur over the next 4 years or so.

Another thought is to suggest the kids not bring up random thoughts about ivy league schools around dad, but first think them through, and only bring up serious options (XYZ has my major and is in my budget based on abc scholarship ....)  I know this may feel like an unnecessary constraint to put on kid-dad conversations, but it might be worth it to keep things peaceful.

Edited January 29, 2023 by SKL

[Arcadia]

My dad did grew up in poverty. They had to rely on the kindness of neighbors for food when his dad’s business was doing badly. I think the choice of majors is anxiety talking. My dad was worried I can’t find a job and would be broke. My mom did calm him down.  He also had lots of job related stress as a teacher so his anxiety spike. He isn’t totally wrong, my brother does have a hard time getting jobs. Luckily he has good tenants all along (as he rented out a room in his home) so he has a little buffer.

[Farrar]

In our house, it's me who had the stint in poverty growing up and dh grew up very comfortably middle class income the whole way through. He used to make jokes like that all the time. He had to learn to cut it out. Everyone once in awhile he blows off steam about money and it really does stress me, especially because he's a little controlling about doing the books himself (it calms him down and makes him feel in control about it but it stresses me out, so this division of labor makes total sense for us - and I periodically cut in and curtail his slightly spendthrifty ways or realign things we could save money on) so I don't always see the day to day expenses in our budget. I feel like everyone being openly aware of those dynamics is the one thing everyone can have control over. So I think it's very smart to talk to the kids about them so they're not a mystery to them.

[Sneezyone]

I just wanted to thank everyone. My post was part vent and part option-seeking and I got a lot out of it. I don't know that anyone can change DH but we had a nice lunch date today. I asked if he thought we wouldn't spend the money we saved for college and he deadpanned..."Yes." So, yeah, laugh or cry. He asked for ***10 YEARS*** to process the trauma of paying for college and was only half-kidding so I know this is gonna be a long, hard slog. The kids seem open to providing some reassurance and I appreciate that very much. We'll just keep working at it. Believe it or not, he's a great Dad and spouse. He just has a few quirks...don't we all?!