Railroad Worker Strike US

[SHP]

16 hours ago, Kassia said:

I'm completely ignorant over the risks here - what would happen with a strike that would make this necessary?  

Trains bring coal.

Coal is used for many power plants.

Much of the behind the scenes stuff are huge electricity drains. Many have back up generators, but those run on desel and if they have, say for optimism and simplicity 3 days capability to run on desel, what happens after 3 days? No power and you will have a run on generators for the home, and those need fuel so the demand will exceed supply, if unaffected. 

Day 4 places like banks have no power and are competing with hospitals for fuel. Lives are on the line at hospitals. Cryogenic plants that make the liquid oxygen for hospitals are a HUGE power drain. Banks are important to the financial sector but lives are literally on the line at hospitals and Cryogenic plants.

Anyway, if the banks have no electricity, they cannot process electronic transactions, including ATM withdrawals and getting direct deposit. Many people keep only a small number of checks on hand and not many people can keep enough cash to cover all expenses for any length of time. 

[Murphy101]

40 minutes ago, SHP said:

Trains bring coal.

Coal is used for many power plants.

Much of the behind the scenes stuff are huge electricity drains. Many have back up generators, but those run on desel and if they have, say for optimism and simplicity 3 days capability to run on desel, what happens after 3 days? No power and you will have a run on generators for the home, and those need fuel so the demand will exceed supply, if unaffected. 

Day 4 places like banks have no power and are competing with hospitals for fuel. Lives are on the line at hospitals. Cryogenic plants that make the liquid oxygen for hospitals are a HUGE power drain. Banks are important to the financial sector but lives are literally on the line at hospitals and Cryogenic plants.

Anyway, if the banks have no electricity, they cannot process electronic transactions, including ATM withdrawals and getting direct deposit. Many people keep only a small number of checks on hand and not many people can keep enough cash to cover all expenses for any length of time. 

Yeah. People seem to think that essential businesses and hospitals just have huge stores of things like fuel for generators. People. They don’t. Like they MIGHT have 3 days worth.

They base their storage of such items on the presumption that they will be the first priority to get energy back online after a power outage (which they would be) and thus they’d get online within days. But that presumption is based on one bad storm.  Not literally having empty pipelines bc the fuel or the parts or whatever to pump energy or clean water is stuck on train in North Dakota or a ship waiting to port in the Atlantic/pacific.

All our worst case scenarios have all been based on a temporary emergency issue like act of war or weather.  There isn’t a scenario for “all our train conductors (or insert some other essential worker) are over 35 and can’t wait to quit or have died of covid and there’s no one to replace them so guess we just won’t do that anymore and now people can’t get grain or chlorine or microchips. 

There’s no plan to deal with this in so many sectors of our infrastructure/society.

Ugh. Side note. I order firewood every winter bc it really saved our bacon during no electricity for 9days 14 years ago.  Usually it was $150 a rick, last year I had to scrounge to find it at $175.  This year I just found out the cheapest I can get a rick if I haul it myself is $250.  Normally I get 3 ricks and we can enjoy cozy fires all winter at our pleasure.  This year I’m only getting 1 due to finances and that wood won’t be used unless there’s a power outage.  1 rick doesn’t last long though if it’s a source of necessary warmth and cooking. *Maybe* 3-6 days.

So when people start saying how much of whatever to make it at least ONE WEEK for a family they need to know that big businesses set to maximize profit with a skeleton crew are not likely to have a week of anything in storage to sustain their operations.  It’s just some bad PR and a tax right off so no need to stress about it.

[Meriwether]

My husband has to deal with the RR with his job. The RR has always been a pain to work with, but awhile ago they told their top 10 customers that the customers needed to cut back their railroad business. The RR is losing business due to crew shortages. I doubt being understaffed is their goal. If crews are short, the RR cannot fulfill their contracts. Crews can't work overtime, so they will leave a job half-finished. There are no white hats in this scenario. My parents' farm has a RR track cutting off one corner. The union workers have no problem telling Dad that none of the three workers, who are doing nothing, can move the equipment blocking entrance to his pasture because of union rules. They also don't care what damage they do to a fence line (as in, they don't mind clipping a fence even when there is a nearby gate) or about letting cattle out on the tracks where they could be hit by a train. They let the owner and the RR deal with the fallout.

[Faith-manor]

2 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

Yeah. People seem to think that essential businesses and hospitals just have huge stores of things like fuel for generators. People. They don’t. Like they MIGHT have 3 days worth.

They base their storage of such items on the presumption that they will be the first priority to get energy back online after a power outage (which they would be) and thus they’d get online within days. But that presumption is based on one bad storm.  Not literally having empty pipelines bc the fuel or the parts or whatever to pump energy or clean water is stuck on train in North Dakota or a ship waiting to port in the Atlantic/pacific.

All our worst case scenarios have all been based on a temporary emergency issue like act of war or weather.  There isn’t a scenario for “all our train conductors (or insert some other essential worker) are over 35 and can’t wait to quit or have died of covid and there’s no one to replace them so guess we just won’t do that anymore and now people can’t get grain or chlorine or microchips. 

There’s no plan to deal with this in so many sectors of our infrastructure/society.

Ugh. Side note. I order firewood every winter bc it really saved our bacon during no electricity for 9days 14 years ago.  Usually it was $150 a rick, last year I had to scrounge to find it at $175.  This year I just found out the cheapest I can get a rick if I haul it myself is $250.  Normally I get 3 ricks and we can enjoy cozy fires all winter at our pleasure.  This year I’m only getting 1 due to finances and that wood won’t be used unless there’s a power outage.  1 rick doesn’t last long though if it’s a source of necessary warmth and cooking. *Maybe* 3-6 days.

So when people start saying how much of whatever to make it at least ONE WEEK for a family they need to know that big businesses set to maximize profit with a skeleton crew are not likely to have a week of anything in storage to sustain their operations.  It’s just some bad PR and a tax right off so no need to stress about it.

Same problem here. Trying to scare up the 7-8 cord of wood we need for heating Dec-March. We have in floor heating which is more efficient otherwise it would take 12 cord or more to make it through a Michigan winter. The price has skyrocketed which is the scary thing when it is still a lot cheaper than propane. I fear many people are going cold this winter.

This whole country operates without any margin for error or disaster. FEMA's 2022 budget for food and shelter was $530 million. There are 330 million people. They have  a $1.60 of something for you if they can get it to you. So ya, nope. They are not in any way capable of handling a nation wide disaster, economic crash, transportation shut down.

One would think that this situation would awaken the people, and this would in turn put pressure on the bobbleheads in charge to see the error of their ways and stop worshipping the oligarchs. But that is pretty much a hard no. I think we live on the precipice until enough old jerks die that younger people who have had enough of this crap come into power.

[SHP]

For those who source wood check out chip drop. You can select logs and exclude types of wood. It won't help this year but maybe next.

 

Also lots of mulch for the garden

[Spy Car]

Fortunately the Biden Administration has brokered a tentative agreement between the union and railroad management, which has averted a strike.

Good news.

Bill

Edited September 15, 2022 by Spy Car

[Murphy101]

2 hours ago, Meriwether said:

My husband has to deal with the RR with his job. The RR has always been a pain to work with, but awhile ago they told their top 10 customers that the customers needed to cut back their railroad business. The RR is losing business due to crew shortages. I doubt being understaffed is their goal. If crews are short, the RR cannot fulfill their contracts. Crews can't work overtime, so they will leave a job half-finished. There are no white hats in this scenario. My parents' farm has a RR track cutting off one corner. The union workers have no problem telling Dad that none of the three workers, who are doing nothing, can move the equipment blocking entrance to his pasture because of union rules. They also don't care what damage they do to a fence line (as in, they don't mind clipping a fence even when there is a nearby gate) or about letting cattle out on the tracks where they could be hit by a train. They let the owner and the RR deal with the fallout.

The bottom line is the RR is still making a profit and they really don’t seem to worry much about changing things for the better as long as they have a profit.

I do not blame those 3 workers for refusing to work outside their contract. I can understand how that would be crazy frustrating to your dad, but I don’t blame them.  And if you think the problem is lazy rude workers - well training and paying better will also allow the RR to be pickier about who to hire and keep on.

My family that had/has RR or utility crossing their land all say the same thing - you have to plan the use of your property under the presumption that you can’t use or access those areas bc it’s a sure bet that at some point you won’t be able to for whatever reason.

Just last month this landowner had made a huge “pond” around a tower.  It was beautiful indeed.  Well there was a storm and the tower needed repair. Emergency linemen show up and start scratching heads on how the heck are they going to repair this thing in the middle of a small LAKE that the tower was in the middle of 100 feet+ of water 5ft+ deep.   It was determined that the fastest solution would be to bring in a back hoe and more crew and fill it in and then get to work on the tower.

The farmer is furious. He is out there screaming obscenities and threatening to sue over his property damage and losses. What did he think would happen if this tower ever needed worked on?!

In the mean time lots of the community are really ticked that they don’t have power and complaining to the utility company and workers that they don’t work fast enough or they don’t plan well enough for storms because it’s been a couple DAYS to get this done.  Good grief.  100 years ago that area didn’t have electricity at all and now they are complaining it taking a couple days for a group of guys to fill a lake and repair a tower.  

For every story you can drum of some worker seemingly being a jerk or lazy I can give 10 of people like that landowner.

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

I think we live on the precipice until enough old jerks die that younger people who have had enough of this crap come into power.

I have often mused that this is how past civilizations “disappeared”. They just reached that precipice where knowledge and education wasn’t being passed to enough of the next generation to keep the civilization growth going and so suddenly a small catastrophe or series of them in one generation comes along and they are left without infrastructure to build on and lacking the knowledge to build new infrastructure so they die out or dissolve into any other civilization group survivors can reach. 

[bookbard]

I read a quote this week about the way people think revolutions are about making explosive, destructive changes - when actually they're humans putting the emergency brake on (found the quote by Walter Benjamin "Perhaps revolutions are not the train ride, but humans grabbing for the emergency brake".). I think it fits this situation - without strikes and people saying, no, stop, things would be way worse. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by bookbard

[Lucy the Valiant]

5 hours ago, SHP said:

For those who source wood check out chip drop. You can select logs and exclude types of wood. It won't help this year but maybe next.

 

Also lots of mulch for the garden

Just had our first chip drop this year! 

[TravelingChris]

On 9/14/2022 at 4:30 PM, Faith-manor said:

Yes, that is completely off the table. Capitalism rules. Humanity be damned. 😠😠😠

My dh and dd1 both work for employees owned companies.  Ds works for a great employer.  Dd2 went to work for a not great employer- she left after slightly over 2 years because of the awful conditions.  No one works for a union.

[Murphy101]

8 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

My dh and dd1 both work for employees owned companies.  Ds works for a great employer.  Dd2 went to work for a not great employer- she left after slightly over 2 years because of the awful conditions.  No one works for a union.

That’s great. Except it leaves basic human dignity worker rights to the whim of employer’s happenstance goodwill. And historically and currently, there’s just not much of that goodwill being voluntarily spread about in the overall workforce.  

What good unions fight for are things good employers should want to do for their employees anyways. 

[ddcrook]

The US Bureau of Labor Statistics has an excellent article about the reduction of employees  in railroads over the past few years. 

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, ddcrook said:

The US Bureau of Labor Statistics has an excellent article about the reduction of employees  in railroads over the past few years. 

That’s an excellent report. Thanks. 

Of note to excerpt imo:

quote:

Precision Scheduled Railroading (PSR), is a railroad strategy that uses departure schedules and point-to-point delivery methods to achieve low operating ratios (how much a company needs to spend to make a dollar) and consolidate railroad networks (the elimination of shorter, less efficient lanes in favor of high-volume lanes).¹⁷ PSR may be the most widely accredited reason for the decrease in rail transportation employment. Before PSR was implemented, the North American rail model, which includes the United States and Canada, focused on moving long trains with a single good in order to maximize capacity and yield the greatest efficiency. However, this model was actually slowing down the rail network because trains would be late or canceled if they did not meet specific length requirements, thus leaving customers unexpectedly without service. With the implementation of PSR, the focus shifted to moving cars with mixed goods, so that the trains are always moving and cars are picked up on schedule, regardless of train length. Despite lower length requirements, average train length increased because railroad companies were no longer discouraged from transporting multiple types of goods in a single train. As a result of PSR, there is now more efficient timing and scheduling, as well as an effective allocation of resources, such as crews, cars, and locomotives, in the places where they are needed on the rail network.¹⁸

North American railroads are divided by revenue into different classes. Class I railroads are the largest, and have an annual operating revenue of at least $447,621,226, while Class II railroads are known as regional railroads and Class III railroads are known as short-line railroads.¹⁹ The practice of furloughing employees is rather common within the rail industry and usually depends on the volume of freight at a given point in time. After Class I railroads adopted PSR, furloughs and layoffs in the industry increased. Rail companies, including Norfolk Southern and Union Pacific, have stated explicitly that they have furloughed or closed down certain operations because of PSR.²⁰ Industry officials seem to hail the new efficiency PSR has brought to the railroads, while union leaders have responded negatively because of its effect on employees. One article noted that reduced staffing is made possible by running longer trains, as hitching two trains together allows one rail work crew to be cut. This coincides with a 25-percent increase in the average train length (1.4 miles) since 2008. In addition, according to rail economist Jim Blaze, seven major freight railroads idled nearly 30 percent of locomotives in 2019 alone, as they aim to run fewer and longer trains.

end quote

To make it worse, as usual, most of the job losses were the direct train/rail workers. Management didn’t take nearly as big a hit. 

Sure hitching two trains together meant they fired an entire crew but it also doubled the work of the remaining crew and doubled the stakes of any failures that crew might have. Bigger train means a larger loss if it isn’t delivered on time or has an accident or any other problems. And the PSR also leaves no margin.  They basically consolidated everything to raise profits. Those services then ran a very tight schedule on a slimed down crew.  I have no doubt it raised profits. I also have no doubt they were warned of the likely pitfalls and didn’t care bc of those profits. 

There are some things civilization needs that just can’t be drummed down to pure profit. Transportation and utilities and healthcare and education being the top 4.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Murphy101

[ddcrook]

@Murphy101 Although some of your conclusions are incorrect, you do bring up some interesting points worth considering.

Longer trains do not necessarily double the amount of work the crew will do.  Even if it does cause an increase in work, there are limits to how much work each crew can do. Typically, these longer trains are going straight from one point to another. They are not the trains that are stopping to deliver or pick up cars from customers. Also, crews were not slimmed down, but fewer crews are needed when fewer trains run.

I'm unclear on why you say crews have higher stake in any failures or if they are not "on time." I am not aware of this.

[Murphy101]

50 minutes ago, ddcrook said:

@Murphy101 Although some of your conclusions are incorrect, you do bring up some interesting points worth considering.

Longer trains do not necessarily double the amount of work the crew will do.  Even if it does cause an increase in work, there are limits to how much work each crew can do. Typically, these longer trains are going straight from one point to another. They are not the trains that are stopping to deliver or pick up cars from customers. Also, crews were not slimmed down, but fewer crews are needed when fewer trains run.

I'm unclear on why you say crews have higher stake in any failures or if they are not "on time." I am not aware of this.

Okay. I’ll try to explain my reasoning on why doing it this way is more work.

Somewhat like driving a minivan across my town is not the same as driving a semi hauling 2-3 loads connected to each other across the country and neither are like longer heavier train routes.

In theory, it’s all just driving - right? But ask a long haul trucker if it’s more work driving a basic semi with frequent stops  or pulling 2-3 trailers long haul and knowing that the haul is going bad every minute of the drive or the place that needs it is out and waiting for more.

Now why is more at stake?

Again I’ll use the extremely simplistic minivan comparison. Let’s say I get sick and can’t bring my van or I’m exhausted and wreck/damage my van full of … idk anything … medical supplies, food, fuel… to where people need it and other people have paid for it to end up. Well that is surely not good - yes?

But what if it’s not my dinky minivan of stuff?  What if it is 2 semi loads of materials? I bet that the loss and or damage is significantly worse.  Now what if it is entire trains bound together? The stakes are even higher again - yes?

I would be interested to hear from any actual on the train workers if my extrapolated theory is entirely off. I’m certainly open to being completely wrong about it.

To sum, my rational is that heavier loads in less deliveries is basically the shipping equivalent of putting all the eggs in one cargo train.  It’s super efficient most of the time I have no doubt. But when there’s any problem in staff or equipment? It’s more likely to be a catastrophic one.  Those are much higher stakes in my mind. 

[ddcrook]

@Murphy101 Oh, gotcha! I misunderstood what you said earlier. I thought that you meant that the stakes are higher for the crew itself. Like they were going to face consequences. I see that you meant that the stakes are higher in general. 

Edited September 16, 2022 by ddcrook

[Harriet Vane]

1 hour ago, ddcrook said:

@Murphy101 Oh, gotcha! I misunderstood what you said earlier. I thought that you meant that the stakes are higher for the crew itself. Like they were going to face consequences. I see that you meant that the stakes are higher in general. 

My guess is that when there are big losses for the big guys, the little guys end up in the crosshairs for letting anything nefarious happen. It's what humans do.

[Bootsie]

We live within 1/2 mile of a major rail yard and near the headquarters of a major railroad company.  As I left my house today, I noticed that there were MANY MORE rail cards being moved the in the yard than I had ever seen.  I was driving to a neighboring town, and past three major rail crossings; I don't usually notice, most of the traffic is at night--but today they were all three BUSY.  I don't know what happened, but it was definitely different activity than I have ever seen before. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

As someone married to a railroader, the tentative agreement isn't what everyone thinks it is. It doesn't address many of the issues in question. One thing to keep in mind is that some of these workers have been working for over three years without a contract. This isn't a one-off; this has been ongoing.

My DH and I live this every day. Our friends live it. Our children have lived through it and are still experiencing it.
Simple things that most people take for granted are not available to many railroaders (I say many because management, office staff, etc have a different set of standards than the workers who actually run the trains). For example, my DH had to cancel dental surgery four times because he was on call and not allowed to take time off without spending some of his 37 points (he gets 37 points to 'spend' a year if he wants time off. If he takes a Tuesday off he 'spends' 3 points. With dental surgery he needed two days off, one for the surgery and one to recuperate because the pain medication is on the ineligibility list for railroaders (you can't work if you're on the medication). However, you cannot take two days off in a row without a penalty and a phone call. It's asinine; they treat these workers like schoolchildren. If you want a high visibility day off, like Thanksgiving or Christmas, it's 10 points. Christmas Eve and Christmas Day - 25 points and a phone call.

Just to let you know what our typical day is like: My husband worked Wednesday for 13.5 hours (they 'die' after 12). He came home around 2am. Got to bed about 4am (showered, threw his work clothes in the wash, took care of his Ipad, caught up on the impending strike information, and just tried to settle down after consuming copious amounts of coffee in order to stay awake). He slept until 11am. Took a walk with me and the dogs, ate lunch, and was called back to work at Noon for a 2pm train. He had 7 hours of sleep and about 2 hours of 'free' time. But his free time isn't really free. There is a phenomenon called "First Out Anxiety". FOA occurs when you are first out (next in line to get a train) but you don't know what train, where it's going, who you are working with, whether you'll have a student, etc). The workers are constantly looking at the lineup to see which trains have been ordered, who laid off, who marked up, which trains are where, A worker can be first out for hours without getting a call or be called having been First for one minute. There is no way to schedule a day, a week, or a life. 
 

Tomorrow is my birthday and he wanted to take me out to celebrate. He's due out at 2am. We debated all day if spending his 7 points for a Saturday off is worth it. But, knowing that our daughter's birthday is in two weeks and our granddaughter's birthday is a couple of weeks after that and then Thanskgiving...it takes so long to earn 7 points back. He wouldn't be able to miss another day for a month to get those points back in his attendance bank. And he knows he will lay off at least Christmas Day so he has to save 10 points. The disrespect shown to hard working adults is incomprehensible.

I can also attest to the increase in work load over the last few years. It's backbreaking and stressful.
I can share stories of how 'dumbed down' the railroad training and proficiency tests have become. Hiring practices have become lax and people who would have been turned down 10-15 years ago, are now being hired. Many are people who are ineligible for employment elsewhere are being accepted into the training courses.

And the railroad wants to drop down to a 1 man crew. One person running those long trains. Alone in a cab for 12 + hours. Not allowed to read, listen to music or use your phone.  No one to talk to. Eating out of a lunch box. Hoping the pit crew cleaned the toilet. Knowing you'll be back there in 12 hours



 

[ddcrook]

@Granny_WeatherwaxSo many hugs! I desperately want things to change for your husband and family. I had hoped these negotiations would bring improvements and I'm so sorry that they didn't. 

[Faith-manor]

14 minutes ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

As someone married to a railroader, the tentative agreement isn't what everyone thinks it is. It doesn't address many of the issues in question. One thing to keep in mind is that some of these workers have been working for over three years without a contract. This isn't a one-off; this has been ongoing.

My DH and I live this every day. Our friends live it. Our children have lived through it and are still experiencing it.
Simple things that most people take for granted are not available to many railroaders (I say many because management, office staff, etc have a different set of standards than the workers who actually run the trains). For example, my DH had to cancel dental surgery four times because he was on call and not allowed to take time off without spending some of his 37 points (he gets 37 points to 'spend' a year if he wants time off. If he takes a Tuesday off he 'spends' 3 points. With dental surgery he needed two days off, one for the surgery and one to recuperate because the pain medication is on the ineligibility list for railroaders (you can't work if you're on the medication). However, you cannot take two days off in a row without a penalty and a phone call. It's asinine; they treat these workers like schoolchildren. If you want a high visibility day off, like Thanksgiving or Christmas, it's 10 points. Christmas Eve and Christmas Day - 25 points and a phone call.

Just to let you know what our typical day is like: My husband worked Wednesday for 13.5 hours (they 'die' after 12). He came home around 2am. Got to bed about 4am (showered, threw his work clothes in the wash, took care of his Ipad, caught up on the impending strike information, and just tried to settle down after consuming copious amounts of coffee in order to stay awake). He slept until 11am. Took a walk with me and the dogs, ate lunch, and was called back to work at Noon for a 2pm train. He had 7 hours of sleep and about 2 hours of 'free' time. But his free time isn't really free. There is a phenomenon called "First Out Anxiety". FOA occurs when you are first out (next in line to get a train) but you don't know what train, where it's going, who you are working with, whether you'll have a student, etc). The workers are constantly looking at the lineup to see which trains have been ordered, who laid off, who marked up, which trains are where, A worker can be first out for hours without getting a call or be called having been First for one minute. There is no way to schedule a day, a week, or a life. 
 

Tomorrow is my birthday and he wanted to take me out to celebrate. He's due out at 2am. We debated all day if spending his 7 points for a Saturday off is worth it. But, knowing that our daughter's birthday is in two weeks and our granddaughter's birthday is a couple of weeks after that and then Thanskgiving...it takes so long to earn 7 points back. He wouldn't be able to miss another day for a month to get those points back in his attendance bank. And he knows he will lay off at least Christmas Day so he has to save 10 points. The disrespect shown to hard working adults is incomprehensible.

I can also attest to the increase in work load over the last few years. It's backbreaking and stressful.
I can share stories of how 'dumbed down' the railroad training and proficiency tests have become. Hiring practices have become lax and people who would have been turned down 10-15 years ago, are now being hired. Many are people who are ineligible for employment elsewhere are being accepted into the training courses.

And the railroad wants to drop down to a 1 man crew. One person running those long trains. Alone in a cab for 12 + hours. Not allowed to read, listen to music or use your phone.  No one to talk to. Eating out of a lunch box. Hoping the pit crew cleaned the toilet. Knowing you'll be back there in 12 hours



 

That breaks my heart! It.is.inhuman. I don't care if there is pay check attached, it is a form of slavery plain and simple!

I am so sorry. I don't know how anyone like me can make a difference for railroad workers other than I will email my state and federal representatives and senators to tell them exactly what I think in no uncertain terms!

[Heartstrings]

46 minutes ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

s someone married to a railroader, the tentative agreement isn't what everyone thinks it is. It doesn't address many of the issues in question

I’ve been thinking that the new deal still sounded pretty terrible.  

[Murphy101]

2 hours ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

As someone married to a railroader, the tentative agreement isn't what everyone thinks it is. It doesn't address many of the issues in question.

I didn’t want to pee in everyone’s Cheerios who were saying this new deal is encouraging bc I agree with you. It’s being washed as a great thing and the railroad workers are getting everything they want so of course they should all agree with it.

That’s not true. I won’t be surprised if they vote against it and end up on strike.

I just want to let your family know, supply delays may frustrate me same as everyone else - but I’ll absolutely support families working like yours is to demand change.  I hope they don’t have to strike. But if they do? Make it worth it. Don’t return until basic changes for the people actually on the railroads are met.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Murphy101

[TravelingChris]

14 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

That’s great. Except it leaves basic human dignity worker rights to the whim of employer’s happenstance goodwill. And historically and currently, there’s just not much of that goodwill being voluntarily spread about in the overall workforce.  

What good unions fight for are things good employers should want to do for their employees anyways. 

I know. As I said before and will expand now. - 2 family members work for great employee owned companies, 3 others work for very understanding companies that have some great benefits though all 3 of them have times where they need to travel suddenly, take over a shift, work weekends, etc.  But overall all those 3 are very happy w their employers.   Now 6 out of 9 of us have worked for other employers who were not good employers.  We have either experienced or heard from other family members or friends lots of stories about bad employers.  My point wasn't that all employers are good but smart employers are changing the culture of the work place.  And people have choices and can often or usually choose good employers.  I am all for getting rid of separate welfare programs and changing to just money for the poor so they could choose to move, fix their car or whatever they want to get a better life 

[Faith-manor]

7 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

I know. As I said before and will expand now. - 2 family members work for great employee owned companies, 3 others work for very understanding companies that have some great benefits though all 3 of them have times where they need to travel suddenly, take over a shift, work weekends, etc.  But overall all those 3 are very happy w their employers.   Now 6 out of 9 of us have worked for other employers who were not good employers.  We have either experienced or heard from other family members or friends lots of stories about bad employers.  My point wasn't that all employers are good but smart employers are changing the culture of the work place.  And people have choices and can often or usually choose good employers.  I am all for getting rid of separate welfare programs and changing to just money for the poor so they could choose to move, fix their car or whatever they want to get a better life 

I am also all for changing the system so it is simply money given which would allow people much more choice, and being able to move is a huge game changer for many folks.

That said, small business, family owned and operated instead of corporate board rooms and CEO's making decisions, is on the wane. Policies in America favor corporations not small businesses. In the 1970's, 75% of working Americans were employed by small business. Today that number is down to 47% and is sinking fast. Projections indicate that 5 years from now the number of small business employers left will be down to 40% or less. So unfortunately, if the work culture at corporations continues this way, the labor force of the bulk of Americans is going to be at the mercy of greedy, board rooms and despot CEO's whose sole goal is to quickly raise profits by whatever immoral means necessary, cash in their stock, and then roll in their dough.

The only meaningful changes that will ever happen for most of workers now is ones that are by force of law, and those laws will have to be enforced with swift retribution when violated. I don't have enough faith left in our system who has functioned for decades as the puppet of rich tycoons to believe there is any chance of that happening unless there is such a laborer revolt that they are faced with no choice in the matter. Frankly, though it will be so hard on the country, and definitely there is going to be discomfort if not suffering, I still hope the unions go on strike. I would like to see massive strikes. Nurse strikes, teacher strikes, trucker strikes, you name it. I think we have to suffer through bringing the economic engine to its knees in order to have substantial change for the sake of our children and their children.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Just an FYI. The last railroad strike lasted less than 4 hours. Congress declared their strike null and void and demanded they return to work or suffer consequences (fines, termination).

Please keep in mind, many of these railroaders have not had a contract for three years. The contract cycle runs five years. Negotiations for a new contract should begin in less than 2 years.

The High Vis attendance policy was not a part of the last contract. It was a policy instituted by the railroad in 2021 and went into effect in 2022. The railroad is now holding many of its employees to a policy neither the union nor the body of workers agreed upon. However, it is being used as a bargaining tool by the company. For example, the railroad will agree to unpaid sick days if the workers agree to the one man crew or to a yearly increase (min 5%) in health insurance premiums (no cap on oop premium contributions; railroaders could end up paying 100% of their health insurance premium). The workers will still have the 37 point system and no guaranteed time off for anything other than sick time (which will require proof of illness). Workers are being told to schedule their vacation time for important events.

Let's look at that for one minute: vacation requests are submitted in Oct and Nov of the previous year. The vacation cycle for 2023 begins in a few weeks. If a worker asks for a week in May for his daughter's high school graduation, a week in July to go on a family vacation, and a week in December for Christmas those weeks are locked in. What happens when his mother is hospitalized? Or his son's soccer team makes it to the playoffs and has to travel for a week to play in the championship game? Those events cannot be scheduled in advance. The workers are being told to either develop clairvoyance, hope the events fall during their 12 hour off time (which, if you recall, isn't really twelve hours off), or spend their 37 points.

As of yet, the workers have not seen the final draft of the contract and a vote has not been scheduled.

[SHP]

It sounds like the best solution is to have national laws about paid time off, work hours, health insurance, occupational safety etc that benefit the employees and do not allow any industry to have exceptions. 

 

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, SHP said:

It sounds like the best solution is to have national laws about paid time off, work hours, health insurance, occupational safety etc that benefit the employees and do not allow any industry to have exceptions. 

 

At the height of the "off shoring" movement in IT, my husband worked two straight years of 90-100 hour work weeks and no time off except four national holidays. He rarely had more than four hours of uninterrupted sleep in any 24 hr period because he and most of his colleagues were on call 24/7/365. Workers also took pay cuts for this abuse. No one could switch jobs because all the IT companies were doing it. They got away with it by lobbying congress for language in the NAFTA treaty that exempted IT workers from many of the laws that protect employees. So the abuse was legal. Divorce, heart attacks from stress - some actually collapsing at work in their miniscule cubicles - high blood pressure leading to strokes, suicides, was so bad that the companies issued employee memos about seeking help if suicidal and making sure to get their annual physicals except GP's don't work on holidays, and no one coupe get time off approved to see the doctor or a mental health professional.

So I don't have any faith in the system because the system is owned by the oligarchy. The tycoons have to be broken. That means nationwide, the economic engine must be broken and they have to fear total loss of wealth and power in order to make them cave.

Off shoring didn't go to plan for a lot of countries and what improved the situation for IT workers was that when so many just quit and took anything else they could get for work in order to save their families or their health, visas got much harder to get due to immigration restrictions which made it hard to bring folks over for training, and numerous other issues came into play, companies had to hire here in the states again but the competition was fierce because IT workers would not come back and risk the abuse again, and they had warned their kids NOT to go into computer science. Many colleges had shuttered their comp sci majors. There wasn't anyone waiting in the wings to take their place. IT companies who worked for the D.O.D and other government contracts were fined huge dollars for not meeting contract deadlines because they could not hire enough citizens with both the education and training as well as ability to get security clearance in order to meet contract obligations. Only then, with the backs of the IT industry being busted were bad CEO's and other managers fired, and policies brought back to a more humane level. And IT workers could not unionize. That language was also put into the NAFTA treaty because HP, IBM, Lockheed Martin, LIDOS, and all their friends knew exactly what they planned to do to IT workers, and wanted to make sure there would be no legal way for them to do a damn thing about it. No one should have any faith in state or federal laws being enacted much less enforced that will protect workers so long as legislators sell their souls to corporations.

https://www.epi.org/blog/nafta-twenty-years-disaster/

 

[TravelingChris]

13 hours ago, Bootsie said:

We live within 1/2 mile of a major rail yard and near the headquarters of a major railroad company.  As I left my house today, I noticed that there were MANY MORE rail cards being moved the in the yard than I had ever seen.  I was driving to a neighboring town, and past three major rail crossings; I don't usually notice, most of the traffic is at night--but today they were all three BUSY.  I don't know what happened, but it was definitely different activity than I have ever seen before. 

Thanks for your observation.  The looming (or not)  railroad strike totally mystified me when I heard Tyrus the wrestler comment about the super seriousness of chlorine delivery and water systems earlier this week.  I have been 2000 miles away from the mainland with railroads since day after Labor Day, and on a cruise ship around these islands since last Saturday.  No railroads on most if not all these Hawaiian islands and except for snippets of news- whoch has mostly been. Queen Elizabeth all the time, no way for me to notice here something like that.  

And I am once again blessed by the HIve mind.  Cause once I did here that comment, I heard brief explanations on news.  

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.  Learning so very much and will be learning so very much while vacationing next to a steaming volcano caldera if my cabin has wifi.  ( we booked a cabin at Kilaue Military Camp, and dh didn't realize it was actually so close to the caldera-- I did but was too foggie to remember when we were packing to bring the 3M N95 respirator masks, I think, because I did order them, and put then aside. Can't ask dh now- his alarm rang at 4:12 am, woke me up, but this is a good reminder to add to my list of to-do things today). Even if my cabin doesn't have wifi, the community center does and I will learn there.

Thanks All.

 

[TravelingChris]

13 hours ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

As someone married to a railroader, the tentative agreement isn't what everyone thinks it is. It doesn't address many of the issues in question. One thing to keep in mind is that some of these workers have been working for over three years without a contract. This isn't a one-off; this has been ongoing. I really get it.  Which it is so extremely difficult to answer anyone's stupid question of how liberal or conservative you are.  Hey, it totally depends on the issue!!!!

My DH and I live this every day. Our friends live it. Our children have lived through it and are still experiencing it.
Simple things that most people take for granted are not available to many railroaders (I say many because management, office staff, etc have a different set of standards than the workers who actually run the trains). For example, my DH had to cancel dental surgery four times because he was on call and not allowed to take time of

Just to let you know what our typical day is like: My husband worked Wednesday for 13.5 hours (they 'die' after 12). He came home around 2am. Got to bed about 4am (showered, threw his work clothes in the wash, took care of his Ipad, caught up on the impending strike information, and just tried to settle down after consuming copious amounts of coffee in order to stay awake). He slept until 11am. Took a walk with me and the dogs, ate lunch, and was  There is a phenomenon called "First Out Anxiety". FOA occurs when you are first out (next in line to get a train) but you don't know what train, where it's going, who you are working with, whether you'll have a student, etc). The workers are constantly looking at the lineup to see which trains have been ordered, who laid off, who marked up, which trains are where, A worker can be first out for hours without getting a call or be called having been First for one minute. There is no way to schedule a day, a week, or a life.  Understand about how the  anxiety issue presents awful problems.  Certain family members I am travelling w have jumped on me (figuratively, of course) because I said not all unions were bad, I would have joined one if I was an Immigration .

The disrespect shown to hard working adults is incomprehensible.

it really is. I heard  a discussion about some bazilionaire giving his newborn a 25 million dollar yacht, etc ( tax fraud, imho, and immoral to boot), heard about the 500 dollar fine for taking photos of celebs on Maui( which I need to read the actual law since yesterday thr bus driver explained it,was not for taking,but profiting from taking, maybe?  since such a law would not only be illegal  but why  only Celebs protected, which is why I need to read the law), and saw the extreme disparity in incomes and wealth here over and over and over again.  Some of the wealthiest give out money (apparently Oprah g8ves cars???), fund hospitals and other worthwhile stuff and treat people nicely.  Some are a-hiles (purposeful misspelling)  Everyone should be grateful, tip well, etc.

I can also attest to the increase in work load over the last few years. It's backbreaking and stressful.
I can share stories of how 'dumbed down' the railroad training and proficiency tests have become. Hiring practices have become lax and people who would have been turned down 10-15 years ago. yep, been seeing these kind of business decisions in lots of news stories over yhr ladt few years. Most of the time, hiring people who were previously ineligible- like ex-cons, current druggie, etc; and will work out okay statistically, ( and I support hiring some ex-cons, druggies, etc)  but when they smash that train into houses, schools, etc - there may be an enormous public reaction.  Dd1 used to work at a medical clinic while still in college.  Back then, w some companies doing these drug tests, over 90% of the testers were positive for something 

And the railroad wants to drop down to a 1 man crew. One person running those long trains. Alone in a cab for 12 + hours. Not allowed to read, listen to music or use your phone.  No one to talk to. Eating out of a lunch box. Hoping the pit crew cleaned the toilet. 

many, many thanks to you and your family for your sacrifices for all of us. And I think that so much more actual research should be done and verified.  Does listening to music cause accidents?  How do other countries treat their railroad workers???? I am just so tired of total stupidity, and that includes my dsil, who initially was very pro railroad company but is slowly changing his mind based on muddled retelling of the stories I have read here- not w names, etc. Can I retelling your story in my usual befuddled way, to further educate him?  He is very interested in this topic and I think I can continue to changing his mind.

 

 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

In case anyone is wondering, there is still no final contract to review. Vote is supposed to happen this week.

The rumors are not encouraging. 

A few years ago, the railroad instituted what was called Article 9. With A9, all of the railroaders were dumped into one large super pool of employees. This super pool was then used to fill the vacancies for runs (called turns) to all terminals. This meant that no matter how much seniority a worker has he/she is unable to hold a regular turn. Essentially, longevity/seniority with the company meant nothing. A new hire had the same earning potential and job opportunities as a seasoned 25 year employee. This was wonderful for new hires but not for people who have been with the company for years. 

That's not the worst of it. A9 meant a worker could be called out on his/her rest to go anywhere in the area. For instance (and these are not accurate numbers), there are 9 possible terminal locations (ie. Chicago, St Louis, Kansas City, etc). Each one of those locations used to be a regular turn; meaning a railroader would always be called to do the Chicago turn or always to the Kansas City turn. He knew where he was going each time he worked. He knew he would work with a series of regular co-workers during his turns. 

With A9, all of the regular turns were eliminated. Workers could be called to Chicago on Monday, Kansas City on Wednesday, St. Louis on Friday. A kick in the pants was that if a worker had never worked a turn before (say a worker who had been in the Chicago pool was called to work Kansas City), that worker would have to work a training run to the new terminal for FREE; it was call Familiarization. A man who used to work Chicago could not be paid for weeks if he was called to a novel turn each shift. No basic day pay. The trip counted toward days worked for insurance and longevity but no pay (remember, longevity and seniority no longer mattered with the Super Pool). Also, remember from an earlier post, most shifts only have a 12 hour rest cycle with a two hour call so actually only 10 hours off, so a man could go to Chicago, turn around after 10 hours (two hour call) and return home, rest for 10 hours, have a 2 hour call to Kansas City, rest in KC for 10 hours, turn around and go home, rest for 10 hours, have a call to St. Louis, etc. Each line (KC, STL, CHI) has different rules to follow, the rail hubs are different, etc.  A railroader never knew who he was working with (a new guy or a seasoned worker), when he was going to work, or where he was going to work. He didn't even know (at the beginning) if he was going to be paid due to the familiarization clause. It was no way to live.

Within weeks, multiple workers were experiencing health problems. Four men ended up in the hospital with heart arrhythmias or heart attacks. My DH was one of them. The amount of caffeine and energy drink being consumed along with the stress of not knowing anything and having no control over one's life was taking a toll on emotional and physical health. We know of three couples whose marriages did not survive Article 9, They are referred to locally as A9 Casualties.

A9 was discontinued after a year due to the turmoil and the toll it took on the workforce.  The railroad returned to shorter runs and regular pools, with seniority determining who can hold which pool turn.  Workers still have to familiarize to a novel turn but are paid a student wage but will usually hold that turn for awhile after familiarization. Life and health have become better for all involved. Not great but better.

I share that background because the powers that be want to go back to A9 and that is what is in one version of the proposed contract. Of course, the railroaders do not want to return to A9 and there will be no agreement if that is left on the table.

These workers do not make $50 per hour as stated throughout the media. My DH has never made $50 an hour. 

Anecdote: When DH experienced a heart arrhythmia in Chicago, he was removed from the train, and taken by ambulance to a hospital where he was held for testing and observation for 2 days. After he was released, I had to drive to Chicago and get him, he was put back on the board and called to work within (you guessed it) 10 hours. 10 hours to recuperate from being in the hospital for 48 hours and multiple tests. When you account for the drive from Chicago to home, he was off/home less then 7 hours before returning to work. 

Yes, we need labor reform. We need to fix the divide between the white collar employees and the blue collar employees. We need to respect those who wear workboots and not only those who wear suit jackets.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Granny_Weatherwax
capitalization and punctuation

[Faith-manor]

52 minutes ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

In case anyone is wondering, there is still no final contract to review. Vote is supposed to happen this week.

The rumors are not encouraging. 

A few years ago, the railroad instituted what was called Article 9. With A9, all of the railroaders were dumped into one large super pool of employees. This super pool was then used to fill the vacancies for runs (called turns) to all terminals. This meant that no matter how much seniority a worker has, he/she is unable to hold a regular turn. Essentially, longevity/seniority with the company meant nothing. A new hire had the same earning potential and job opportunities as a seasoned 25 year employee. This was wonderful for new hires but not for people who have been with the company for years. 

That's not the worst of it. A9 meant a worker could be called out on his/her rest to go anywhere in the area. For instance (and these are not accurate numbers), there are 9 possible terminal locations (ie. Chicago, St Louis, Kansas City, etc). Each one of those locations used to be a regular turn; meaning a railroader would always be called to do the Chicago turn or always to the Kansas City turn. He knew where he was going each time he worked. He knew he would work with a series of regular co-workers during his turns. 

With A9, all of the regular turns are eliminated. Workers could be called to Chicago on Monday, Kansas City on Wednesday, St. Louis on Friday. A kick in the pants was that if a worker had never worked a turn before (say a worker who had been in the Chicago pool was called to work Kansas City), that worker would have to work a training run to the new terminal for FREE; it was call Familiarization. A man who used to work Chicago could not be paid for weeks if he was called to a novel turn each shift. No basic day pay. The trip counted toward days worked for insurance and longevity but no pay (and, remember, longevity and seniority no longer mattered with the Super Pool. Also, remember from an earlier post, most shifts only have a 12 hour rest cycle with a two hour call so actually only 10 hours off, so a man could go to Chicago, turn around after 10 hours (two hour call) and return home, rest for 10 hours, have a 2 hour call to Kansas City, rest in KC for 10 hours, turn around and go home, rest for 10 hours, have a call to St. Louis, etc. Each line (KC, STL, CHI) has different rules to follow, the rail hubs are different, etc.  A railroader never knew he was working with (a new guy or a seasoned worker), when he was going to work, or where he was going to work. He didn't even know (at the beginning) if he was going to be paid due to the familiarization clause. It was no way to live.

Within weeks, multiple workers were experiencing health problems. Four men ended up in the hospital with heart arrhythmias or heart attacks. My DH was one of them. The amount of caffeine and energy drink being consumed along with the stress of not knowing anything and having no control over one's life was taking a toll on emotional and physical health. We know of three couples whose marriages did not survive Article 9, They are referred to locally as A9 Casualties.

A9 was discontinued after a year due to the turmoil and the toll it took on the workforce.  The railroad returned to shorter runs and regular pools, with seniority determining who can hold which pool turn.  Workers still have to familiarize to a novel turn but are paid a student wage but will usually hold that turn for awhile after familiarization. Life and health have become better for all involved. Not great but better.

I share that background because the powers that be want to go back to A9 and that is what is in one version of the proposed contract. Of course, the railroaders do not want to return to A9 and there will be no agreement if that is left on the table.

These workers do not make $50 per hour as stated throughout the media. My DH has never made $50 an hour. 

Anecdote: When DH experienced a heart arrhythmia in Chicago, he was removed from the train, and taken by ambulance to a hospital where he was held for testing and observation for 2 days. After he was released, I had to drive to Chicago and get him, he was put back on the board and called to work within (you guessed it) 10 hours. 10 hours to recuperate from being in the hospital for 48 hours and multiple tests. When you account for the drive from Chicago to home, he was off/home less then 7 hours before returning to work. 

Yes, we need labor reform. We need to fix the divide between the white collar employees and the blue collar employees. We need to respect those who wear workboots and not only those who wear suit jackets.

This is insane! 💔

I truly believe that though it will hurt the country hard in the short term, we need to have railroaders go on strike, train for other jobs and quit, bring the railroad tycoons to their knees. This is a matter of fighting for the soul of the nation. Are we going to be a nation of narcissists who want what we want when we want it regardless of the fact that worker abuse, practical slavery is allowed to flourish? Or are we going to stand for what is morally right and break the backs of the system, of the oligarchs who continue to oppress the people in order to further accumulate unfathomable wealth? This is fast turning into a need for an economic revolution even if the pain in the here and now will be significant. What kind of world are we leaving to our children????? 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Faith-manor

[Harriet Vane]

@Granny_Weatherwax Thank you for sharing all the information. I feel terrible for this situation. It's insane and it's wrong. I am praying over the whole ugly morass and I hope it conditions improve dramatically.

[Ausmumof3]

9 hours ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

In case anyone is wondering, there is still no final contract to review. Vote is supposed to happen this week.

The rumors are not encouraging. 

A few years ago, the railroad instituted what was called Article 9. With A9, all of the railroaders were dumped into one large super pool of employees. This super pool was then used to fill the vacancies for runs (called turns) to all terminals. This meant that no matter how much seniority a worker has, he/she is unable to hold a regular turn. Essentially, longevity/seniority with the company meant nothing. A new hire had the same earning potential and job opportunities as a seasoned 25 year employee. This was wonderful for new hires but not for people who have been with the company for years. 

That's not the worst of it. A9 meant a worker could be called out on his/her rest to go anywhere in the area. For instance (and these are not accurate numbers), there are 9 possible terminal locations (ie. Chicago, St Louis, Kansas City, etc). Each one of those locations used to be a regular turn; meaning a railroader would always be called to do the Chicago turn or always to the Kansas City turn. He knew where he was going each time he worked. He knew he would work with a series of regular co-workers during his turns. 

With A9, all of the regular turns are eliminated. Workers could be called to Chicago on Monday, Kansas City on Wednesday, St. Louis on Friday. A kick in the pants was that if a worker had never worked a turn before (say a worker who had been in the Chicago pool was called to work Kansas City), that worker would have to work a training run to the new terminal for FREE; it was call Familiarization. A man who used to work Chicago could not be paid for weeks if he was called to a novel turn each shift. No basic day pay. The trip counted toward days worked for insurance and longevity but no pay (and, remember, longevity and seniority no longer mattered with the Super Pool. Also, remember from an earlier post, most shifts only have a 12 hour rest cycle with a two hour call so actually only 10 hours off, so a man could go to Chicago, turn around after 10 hours (two hour call) and return home, rest for 10 hours, have a 2 hour call to Kansas City, rest in KC for 10 hours, turn around and go home, rest for 10 hours, have a call to St. Louis, etc. Each line (KC, STL, CHI) has different rules to follow, the rail hubs are different, etc.  A railroader never knew he was working with (a new guy or a seasoned worker), when he was going to work, or where he was going to work. He didn't even know (at the beginning) if he was going to be paid due to the familiarization clause. It was no way to live.

Within weeks, multiple workers were experiencing health problems. Four men ended up in the hospital with heart arrhythmias or heart attacks. My DH was one of them. The amount of caffeine and energy drink being consumed along with the stress of not knowing anything and having no control over one's life was taking a toll on emotional and physical health. We know of three couples whose marriages did not survive Article 9, They are referred to locally as A9 Casualties.

A9 was discontinued after a year due to the turmoil and the toll it took on the workforce.  The railroad returned to shorter runs and regular pools, with seniority determining who can hold which pool turn.  Workers still have to familiarize to a novel turn but are paid a student wage but will usually hold that turn for awhile after familiarization. Life and health have become better for all involved. Not great but better.

I share that background because the powers that be want to go back to A9 and that is what is in one version of the proposed contract. Of course, the railroaders do not want to return to A9 and there will be no agreement if that is left on the table.

These workers do not make $50 per hour as stated throughout the media. My DH has never made $50 an hour. 

Anecdote: When DH experienced a heart arrhythmia in Chicago, he was removed from the train, and taken by ambulance to a hospital where he was held for testing and observation for 2 days. After he was released, I had to drive to Chicago and get him, he was put back on the board and called to work within (you guessed it) 10 hours. 10 hours to recuperate from being in the hospital for 48 hours and multiple tests. When you account for the drive from Chicago to home, he was off/home less then 7 hours before returning to work. 

Yes, we need labor reform. We need to fix the divide between the white collar employees and the blue collar employees. We need to respect those who wear workboots and not only those who wear suit jackets.

That is terrible! Thanks for sharing the contact though 😞 

[KungFuPanda]

On 9/14/2022 at 7:58 PM, Terabith said:

Have we tried not being horrible human beings and giving railroad workers decent working conditions?  Is that just completely off the table as an option?

That’s crazy talk!

My cynical side is thinking OF COURSE there’s a RR strike. The pandemic seems to be winding up and we certainly can’t LOWER prices EVER when the price-raising event ends. 
 

There are still bosses out there telling customers “there’s a labor shortage” to explain higher prices but they’re not paying people a living wage. I’m not sure there is a labor shortage in jobs that pay a decent wage AND have humane hours. 

[bookbard]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

There are still bosses out there telling customers “there’s a labor shortage” to explain higher prices but they’re not paying people a living wage. I’m not sure there is a labor shortage in jobs that pay a decent wage AND have humane hours. 

Yes, we're in a bizarre situation (worldwide?) where wages are lower than they should be, while inflation is high. It should be a situation where workers get the wages and rights they demand, and yet it isn't happening. So many industries have had strikes in Australia - trains, aged care workers, nurses, teachers, early childhood workers - but it hasn't made any difference. 

[Ausmumof3]

37 minutes ago, bookbard said:

Yes, we're in a bizarre situation (worldwide?) where wages are lower than they should be, while inflation is high. It should be a situation where workers get the wages and rights they demand, and yet it isn't happening. So many industries have had strikes in Australia - trains, aged care workers, nurses, teachers, early childhood workers - but it hasn't made any difference. 

The growing gap between profits and wages seems to have hit the tipping point.

[Murphy101]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The growing gap between profits and wages seems to have hit the tipping point.

Well apparently not bc wages aren’t going up and employment practices aren’t changing yet.

 

[Faith-manor]

8 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

That’s crazy talk!

My cynical side is thinking OF COURSE there’s a RR strike. The pandemic seems to be winding up and we certainly can’t LOWER prices EVER when the price-raising event ends. 
 

There are still bosses out there telling customers “there’s a labor shortage” to explain higher prices but they’re not paying people a living wage. I’m not sure there is a labor shortage in jobs that pay a decent wage AND have humane hours. 

This. The manufactured labor shortage here is just employers wanting to work a skeleton crew of abused individuals and nothing more. They put hiring signs in their windows to make people think they are trying to find help. The application is online, and no one EVER hears from these employers for an interview. The local McD's has been hiring for, well, forever it seems. $12.50 an hour. I know a bunch of high school graduates who kept applying and re-applying all summer long and never could get the owner or manager to call back. Meanwhile, the people who are working there keep reporting their utter exhaustion, the verbal abuse, the schedules that come out on Sunday night for Monday with no time to prepare for the fact that they just got off shift and desperately need to sleep and take care of life, but have to be back at work at 4 am to get the store going for 6 am drive through, and always being juggled in such a way that they work 1 hr short in every work week of being full time so benefits do not have to be paid. Walmart, Kan Rock, Rite Aid, Walgreens, Tractor Supply, and many others in the area play this game. Oddly, one of the best local places to work in terms of being treated right and being able to get on full-time with benefits is AutoZone and Advanced Auto. So my guess is their corporate policies are more humane and dictated in stone to the local shops. Kybota and John Deere also do better. Those last two require diesel mechanic and large machinery mechanic degrees some of which are two year programs and some are four year, so with a low number of people here pursuing post-high school education at that level, they probably do have a labor shortage problem.

Corporations increasingly spread their filthy, evil, human rights abuses all over the land, and nothing is being done about it. I really don't know how things are going to shake out for this country, but I can say I am not remotely optimistic at this point.

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

Well apparently not bc wages aren’t going up and employment practices aren’t changing yet.

 

Well yes.  I guess I mean the point where things stop functioning because people are no longer able to work to the expectations on the wages they’re getting so things get messy. Not that they necessarily get fixed. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Still no contract. There have been a couple of Q&A sessions where the proposed contracts have been discussed. The current two proposals are interesting. One proposal includes a crew reduction to one man on a train. This means hundreds of employees will be out of a job in two years. The second proposal includes a raise (gradually over the course of the 5 years, retroactive to 2020), a small bonus, 60 unpaid sick days, and a promise by the railroad to look into more time off. It's being touted as an either/or vote. You will either vote yes for the second contract proposal or the first proposal will go into effect. It's a shameful scare tactic to get the workers to vote yes on a smaller raise and unclear verbiage which can/may lead to loss of freedoms and bargaining rights in the future.

Again, we have not yet seen the full proposal in writing; supposedly those are in the mail. A vote, which was supposed to be in Sept, has now been pushed back to late Oct or early Nov. We don't have any more details than that, just hearsay. We will know more once the proposals reach the workers before the vote. Each day's mail delivery is eagerly anticipated with hope that the contract proposals will be delivered and questions will be answered.

Meanwhile, healthcare and benefit registration is going on and nothing is concrete; everything is followed by an asterisk stating that numbers and amounts will be verified after the contract dispute is resolved. More uncertainty.

In reality, tempers are flaring. Anxiety is rising. Health and morale are declining. There remains no recourse for time off and people are going to work stressed, fatigued, and ill. Many people are playing the If-Then game. If we vote for this, then the railroad can do that. If we don't vote for this, then the Railroad will do this. Some are holding off with any life plans; others are saying to heck with it and making plans for what they can. Some who are young enough are looking for employment elsewhere. Those who are within 10 years of retirement are looking for other revenue streams and ways to bolster savings in case the one-man crew becomes a reality.

There are many things I could share and I have typed and deleted, retyped and deleted. It's not easy watching people fight for the right to be able to watch a child play a sport, take a spouse to dinner for a special occasion, stay home with a fever, or attend a friend's funeral. It's not easy calling every family member and coordinating calendars and special events so vacation time can be set aside for those occasions; remember, vacations are set in November for the coming year so you had better know what days are needed each month; no surprises allowed. If you aren't pregnant now, do not get pregnant until the due date will occur after Jan 2024 so we can ask for vacation time. If you want to graduate early, better plan those college courses now so we can put your May 2023 graduation on the calendar. Make certain all marriage proposals and wedding dates for 2023 are set before Nov 21st, 2022.

This is what life is like at the moment.

 

[Kassia]

@Granny_WeatherwaxI'm so sorry. Thank you for sharing, though - I really had no idea about any of this.

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

Still no contract. There have been a couple of Q&A sessions where the proposed contracts have been discussed. The current two proposals are interesting. One proposal includes a crew reduction to one man on a train. This means hundreds of employees will be out of a job in two years. The second proposal includes a raise (gradually over the course of the 5 years, retroactive to 2020), a small bonus, 60 unpaid sick days, and a promise by the railroad to look into more time off. It's being touted as an either/or vote. You will either vote yes for the second contract proposal or the first proposal will go into effect. It's a shameful scare tactic to get the workers to vote yes on a smaller raise and unclear verbiage which can/may lead to loss of freedoms and bargaining rights in the future.

Again, we have not yet seen the full proposal in writing; supposedly those are in the mail. A vote, which was supposed to be in Sept, has now been pushed back to late Oct or early Nov. We don't have any more details than that, just hearsay. We will know more once the proposals reach the workers before the vote. Each day's mail delivery is eagerly anticipated with hope that the contract proposals will be delivered and questions will be answered.

Meanwhile, healthcare and benefit registration is going on and nothing is concrete; everything is followed by an asterisk stating that numbers and amounts will be verified after the contract dispute is resolved. More uncertainty.

In reality, tempers are flaring. Anxiety is rising. Health and morale are declining. There remains no recourse for time off and people are going to work stressed, fatigued, and ill. Many people are playing the If-Then game. If we vote for this, then the railroad can do that. If we don't vote for this, then the Railroad will do this. Some are holding off with any life plans; others are saying to heck with it and making plans for what they can. Some who are young enough are looking for employment elsewhere. Those who are within 10 years of retirement are looking for other revenue streams and ways to bolster savings in case the one-man crew becomes a reality.

There are many things I could share and I have typed and deleted, retyped and deleted. It's not easy watching people fight for the right to be able to watch a child play a sport, take a spouse to dinner for a special occasion, stay home with a fever, or attend a friend's funeral. It's not easy calling every family member and coordinating calendars and special events so vacation time can be set aside for those occasions; remember, vacations are set in November for the coming year so you had better know what days are needed each month; no surprises allowed. If you aren't pregnant now, do not get pregnant until the due date will occur after Jan 2024 so we can ask for vacation time. If you want to graduate early, better plan those college courses now so we can put your May 2023 graduation on the calendar. Make certain all marriage proposals and wedding dates for 2023 are set before Nov 21st, 2022.

This is what life is like at the moment.

 

This breaks my heart! Sincerely, I do not want any product delivered to my region that requires this level of actual, human slavery, and that is exactly what it is. I am so very, very sorry.

I am so ashamed of this country allowing such things to be legal.

Though it will cripple the economy, I truly hope railroaders find other employment and walk off the job.

[bookbard]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

I do not want any product delivered to my region that requires this level of actual, human slavery, and that is exactly what it is.

Absolutely. I think there are a lot of industries like this, and it's all hidden away so we don't know. And part of the reason is that CEOs are getting paid ridiculous amounts of money, so somehow there's nothing left in the pot to pay the workers. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Update: ballots are supposedly on their way to the workers. Complete ballots must be received by Nov 20 with the decision being announced on Nov 21

 

Reality: There is an obvious divide between the younger and older workers. There have been fights in break rooms and people laying off to avoid working with someone with an opposing viewpoint. The younger guys want to hold out for a strike or a better wage contract. Many of the older guys (those with 10 years or less until retirement) want to vote yes. The problem is the majority of the younger guys state they will quit as soon as the contract is passed; take the money (back pay) and run. They don't really care about working conditions or what will happen 5-10 years down the road. It's the older guys who are concerned with longevity, retirement availability, and work load.
 

If this contract is voted down, the government will step in and make the contract decisions. There will be no union bargaining and no further voting option. The option to strike has also been eliminated; government intervention in September made certain of that. 

[Faith-manor]

15 minutes ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

Update: ballots are supposedly on their way to the workers. Complete ballots must be received by Nov 20 with the decision being announced on Nov 21

 

Reality: There is an obvious divide between the younger and older workers. There have been fights in break rooms and people laying off to avoid working with someone with an opposing viewpoint. The younger guys want to hold out for a strike or a better wage contract. Many of the older guys (those with 10 years or less until retirement) want to vote yes. The problem is the majority of the younger guys state they will quit as soon as the contract is passed; take the money (back pay) and run. They don't really care about working conditions or what will happen 5-10 years down the road. It's the older guys who are concerned with longevity, retirement availability, and work load.
 

If this contract is voted down, the government will step in and make the contract decisions. There will be no union bargaining and no further voting option. The option to strike has also been eliminated; government intervention in September made certain of that. 

This makes me want to cry. I hate corporate America, and I hate the government who will for sake of enriching its friends, will force more slave labor on its citizens. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

The ballot arrived with the contract agreement. It's not good.

Yearly raise is between 3-7% depending on the year. The language is ambiguous but it reads as if the raise is based on train weight and not just having worked a shift. Lots of charts and graphs showing what qualifies. The contract language is also different for freight and passenger trains so it takes a bit of weeding through to parse things out.

Other points: one additional paid day off per year, 25-50% yearly increase in health insurance premiums (capped after three years), one time lump sum bonus per year (to be taxed at 30%; and it's not a large lump sum), retroactive pay for the raises for 2020-2022 paid in one lump sum and taxed at 30% rate.

There are also a number of changes to language regarding crews, shifts, testing, vacations, etc. Rules that handcuff the workers and mean more hoop jumping. The point system remains in effect If you go to the hospital or the dentist/doctor, sick time will not count against you. If you just call in sick (without proof), you must use points from your allotment.

DH is disheartened. He has been an active supporter of the railroad and the union and is dismayed that this is what is being offered. The raise will be null and void after the increases in premiums and retirement contributions are met. He is now concerned that the young guys will indeed vote no because the large lump sum they were anticipating is not being offered.

Voting is done by phone or online; no mail in ballots.

[Faith-manor]

I am just so sickened. This is insane! It will hurt. We will all feel it. But, really this country MUST get behind the railroaders, and shut this crap down. I am emailing and calling senators Stabenow and Peters, as well as my entirely useless representative (🙄 but at least I have done my civic duty even though it is the equivalent of casting pearls before swine as the saying goes), writing my governor to see if there's any pressure governors could put on the railroads like forcing them to provide better working conditions, pay, and benefits for railroaders working in our state, etx. If feel like my hands are otherwise tied. I am 100% for bring the railroad companies to their knees if it is even possible to do that. Sadly, I doubt it. I am so sorry!!!

[Lady Florida.]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

I am just so sickened. This is insane! It will hurt. We will all feel it. But, really this country MUST get behind the railroaders, and shut this crap down.

I agree. I'm ashamed to say I had no idea what it was like for RR workers, especially the insane shifts and point system, until this thread. I doubt my senators and my representative will make any difference (and I voted for the opponent of one senator) but I'll contact them anyway. I am sick over the working conditions these truly essential workers have to endure.