DE Prof with terrible reviews on RateMyProfessor

[Porridge]

We are brand new to the DE / CC stuff. The sequence of classes that DD originally wanted to take is only being offered in the evening this year - she’d have to give up several other activities that are important to her - kind of a deal breaker.  She has emailed with the prof, and unfortunately there are no plans for daytime sections this academic year.

We are looking at other CCs in our state that offer fully online options. We found one, but the professor gets pretty dismal reviews on ratemyprofessor. And the reviews don’t just sound like complaints from students who wanted an easy A (some sound like that, but others mention things like poor teaching, last minute deadlines, opaque grading policies). Would you put your DC in this type of class? 

Our other option would be a local in-person class, but it would not give her potential college credit, and it would be less efficient (since we could count 1 semester of CC as 1 yr of high school language).  

[EKS]

If there are numerous specific complaints that all align, I would be wary of putting your daughter in the class.  

[teachermom2834]

While de can be a great option and my dc did tons of it, rarely is so advantageous that it is worth the annoyance, frustration, and possible risk of a bad grade or lost money with a dropped class, etc. I have found those types of reviews to usually have some truth to them and de just wouldn’t be worth it to me. I’d be extremely wary of that and find another way. 

[BusyMom5]

No, not worth it.

[KSera]

17 minutes ago, EKS said:

If there are numerous specific complaints that all align, I would be wary of putting your daughter in the class.  

 

7 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

While de can be a great option and my dc did tons of it, rarely is so advantageous that it is worth the annoyance, frustration, and possible risk of a bad grade or lost money with a dropped class, etc. I have found those types of reviews to usually have some truth to them and de just wouldn’t be worth it to me. I’d be extremely wary of that and find another way. 

Agree with both of these. The reviews tend to be pretty useful. You can usually read between the lines when people are complaining because they didn’t want to read the book or attend class or whatever. Legitimate complaints have tended to be accurate—if they say the prof is impossible to get in touch with, they usually are, if they say the course is poorly organized on Canvas, it usually is. 

[Farrar]

Another no vote. It's one thing when reviews are a mix or they're clearly about a specific class that your kid isn't taking and not the professor as a whole or they've changed over time and improved or they're clearly related to online learning being bad and your kid is taking it in person... but when the overall consensus talks about a prof being bad at their job, disorganized, or unfair? Run.

[Guest]

Super helpful. Thank you all!!

Sigh. Back to the drawing board.

It looks like we should probably go with the private class and just figure out another plan / timeline for meeting high school language requirements. We were originally thinking of going the AP route, and it looks like that's what we'll probably end up doing. 

I'm researching some out of state CC's, but I assume we won't be admitted for DE since we'd be out of state...

Edited July 8, 2022 by WTM

[Roadrunner]

Another no vote. I have not listened to those reviews in the past and really regretted. 

[regentrude]

If the complaints show a pattern and are factual (as opposed to disgruntled rantings), no way would I put my kid into that class.

For homeschooling highschool, I find quality instruction much more important than whether you can knock out hs credits fast or get college credit. To me, that is not the purpose of homeschooling highschool.

 

[regentrude]

10 hours ago, WTM said:

I'm researching some out of state CC's, but I assume we won't be admitted for DE since we'd be out of state...

Does it have to be CC? Why not use a 4 year college?
Mine did 5 semesters of language classes at the local uni, starting at age 14.

[HomeAgain]

It depends on the complaints for me.

I had one professor that was terrible.  The few reviews she had showed that (but I didn't think to check until after I started having issues).  BUT, her problems were communication and time management.

I can work around that.  I ended up getting an A in the class and only had to BCC my advisor once when trying to get ahold of the professor.  As long as I stayed on top of what the syllabus was and did the work FULLY instead of what she may or may not ask for, it was fine.  My classmates who were dealing with her revolving door of expectations were having more issues than I was. 

It was a frustrating experience, and I'll never take another class with her if I can help it, but it could have been worse.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

Does it have to be CC? Why not use a 4 year college?
Mine did 5 semesters of language classes at the local uni, starting at age 14.

I don’t know how to find a university that will allow a high school student to take classes for a reasonable cost. There is a local CSU but I think you pay $500 /unit, and for a 3-5 unit class, that adds up quickly. 
Are there universities out there that allow high school students to take classes at a lower cost?

[regentrude]

35 minutes ago, WTM said:

I don’t know how to find a university that will allow a high school student to take classes for a reasonable cost. There is a local CSU but I think you pay $500 /unit, and for a 3-5 unit class, that adds up quickly. 
Are there universities out there that allow high school students to take classes at a lower cost?

Here it's the same rate as for regular college students, but $500 for a credit hour seems a lot for in-state.

[Lucy the Valiant]

34 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Here it's the same rate as for regular college students, but $500 for a credit hour seems a lot for in-state.

My state is $645 / credit hour for in-state. It's $1435 / credit hour (yes, per credit hour, NOT per course) for out-of-state. 

Changes the "dual enrollment" conversation considerably in the HCOL areas. 😞

[regentrude]

46 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

My state is $645 / credit hour for in-state. It's $1435 / credit hour (yes, per credit hour, NOT per course) for out-of-state. 

Changes the "dual enrollment" conversation considerably in the HCOL areas. 😞

Yikes. In that case, I would have happily facilitated at home

[lmrich]

Absolutely not. Read the reviews and be sure they are fair and just. My kids have found Rate Your Professor to be accurate. 

[Guest]

I did find some 4 yr uni's that offer online Chinese (~$350 ish / credit hour) but a) they use simplified (DD wants to continue traditional), and b) they only offer beginner levels and DD should go into an intermediate or adv class. 

Given all the "buts" in my previous sentence, I think I'm trying to optimize for too many variables. I think I need to figure out our primary goal and just optimize for that...

[Roadrunner]

Honestly, if she is a heritage speaker, save your money and the time it will take to do all the assignments, prep for AP at home and just take an exam. She will get an easy 5 and it will be at a fraction of time spent and cost. 

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, WTM said:

I did find some 4 yr uni's that offer online Chinese (~$350 ish / credit hour) but a) they use simplified (DD wants to continue traditional), and b) they only offer beginner levels and DD should go into an intermediate or adv class. 

Given all the "buts" in my previous sentence, I think I'm trying to optimize for too many variables. I think I need to figure out our primary goal and just optimize for that...

So what IS your primary goal?
Checking a box for highschool graduation requirements? Getting college credit? Developing true proficiency?

[Lilaclady]

Did you look at Arizona state university program? Grand Canyon Also has a good DE onlinE program that is reasonable. Foreign Lang may be harder to get but some gen Ed courses are more accessible. 

[Frances]

9 hours ago, WTM said:

I don’t know how to find a university that will allow a high school student to take classes for a reasonable cost. There is a local CSU but I think you pay $500 /unit, and for a 3-5 unit class, that adds up quickly. 
Are there universities out there that allow high school students to take classes at a lower cost?

Several of the LACs here have special programs for select high school students. My son was able to take two classes per semester for $200 each at a time when their regular tuition was around $40k. Additionally, he audited several language classes for $50 each, but did all of the work and later took his only CLEP exam when he needed proof of proficiency for our state U. He got credit for six quarters (two years) of college Spanish.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Lilaclady said:

Did you look at Arizona state university program? Grand Canyon Also has a good DE onlinE program that is reasonable. Foreign Lang may be harder to get but some gen Ed courses are more accessible. 

ASU Online and GCU don't seem to offer Chinese. thank you for the suggestion, though!

[Guest]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

So what IS your primary goal?
Checking a box for highschool graduation requirements? Getting college credit? Developing true proficiency?

Her personal goal is developing true proficiency.

As mom, I'm trying to make sure we aim for proficiency without overlooking practical goals like high school grad req's and hitting college application req's.

The college credit thing would be icing on the cake. It's not a primary goal.

She wants to continue with traditional characters as long as possible, as she feels it will be relatively easy to adapt to simplified from a traditional background, but much harder to learn traditional if she switches to simplified now. I'm honestly not sure how high a priority the traditional characters should be. My idealistic side wants to stick with traditional as long as possible, too.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Frances said:

Several of the LACs here have special programs for select high school students. My son was able to take two classes per semester for $200 each at a time when their regular tuition was around $40k. Additionally, he audited several language classes for $50 each, but did all of the work and later took his only CLEP exam when he needed proof of proficiency for our state U. He got credit for six quarters (two years) of college Spanish.

Could I ask which LAC's offered those types of programs?

[Roadrunner]

3 minutes ago, WTM said:

Her personal goal is developing true proficiency.

As mom, I'm trying to make sure we aim for proficiency without overlooking practical goals like high school grad req's and hitting college application req's.

The college credit thing would be icing on the cake. It's not a primary goal.

She wants to continue with traditional characters as long as possible, as she feels it will be relatively easy to adapt to simplified from a traditional background, but much harder to learn traditional if she switches to simplified now. I'm honestly not sure how high a priority the traditional characters should be. My idealistic side wants to stick with traditional as long as possible, too.

As a heritage speaker she will be sitting with a bunch of kids who know nothing. And language courses can be time consuming. If learning is the true goal, for a heritage speaker, I would seek out courses designed for kids who are fluent. Or hire online once a week tutoring to focus on what she wants to learn. You can get super cheap tutoring from native speakers online.

And for her, AP Chinese would be a breeze as the high rates of 5 on that exam demonstrate. And that will be the only box you need to tick for college. 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

As a heritage speaker she will be sitting with a bunch of kids who know nothing. And language courses can be time consuming. If learning is the true goal, for a heritage speaker, I would seek out courses designed for kids who are fluent. Or hire online once a week tutoring to focus on what she wants to learn. You can get super cheap tutoring from native speakers online.

And for her, AP Chinese would be a breeze as the high rates of 5 on that exam demonstrate. And that will be the only box you need to tick for college. 

 

Yeah, DH is also saying let's go the 1:1 tutor route (with AP to validate), since native level proficiency is the goal.

[Guest]

Can I just say, you all are so helpful!

[teachermom2834]

I suspect this isn’t helpful in CA but in case anyone else is reading and it is useful info, my dc were able to take de at a local private university for $100/per credit hour. There is a state grant that covers some de credits and then whatever my dc took that exceeded what the grant covered was only $100/cr hour. Much cheaper than the regular tuition and cheaper even than community college. This university also allowed de students to register after athletes and seniors so my dc were able to have their pick of courses and professors. It was an awesome deal. I think the university saw it as a recruitment tool as many de students enrolled full time after high school graduation. Just something to check into. I would not have expected a four year school to have cheaper de than cc, but that was our situation. I know another similar private college nearby is also pushing de and is likely affordable as well. Something to consider where things are not as competitive and expensive as CA 😞

[Lawyer&Mom]

33 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

I suspect this isn’t helpful in CA but in case anyone else is reading and it is useful info, my dc were able to take de at a local private university for $100/per credit hour. There is a state grant that covers some de credits and then whatever my dc took that exceeded what the grant covered was only $100/cr hour. Much cheaper than the regular tuition and cheaper even than community college. This university also allowed de students to register after athletes and seniors so my dc were able to have their pick of courses and professors. It was an awesome deal. I think the university saw it as a recruitment tool as many de students enrolled full time after high school graduation. Just something to check into. I would not have expected a four year school to have cheaper de than cc, but that was our situation. I know another similar private college nearby is also pushing de and is likely affordable as well. Something to consider where things are not as competitive and expensive as CA 😞

The issue with CA is that community college is so cheap ($46 a unit!) that in my (admittedly out of date) experience it becomes the only real option.    

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, WTM said:

 

She wants to continue with traditional characters as long as possible, as she feels it will be relatively easy to adapt to simplified from a traditional background, but much harder to learn traditional if she switches to simplified now. I'm honestly not sure how high a priority the traditional characters should be. My idealistic side wants to stick with traditional as long as possible, too.

I’ll stick with traditional chinese. AP Chinese has both TC and SC (past years https://apcentral.collegeboard.org/courses/ap-chinese-language-and-culture/exam/past-exam-questions). 
My kids’ chinese tutor thinks its so much easier to switch from TC to SC that she only teach SC to those who really can’t cope. 
Might not be relevant for your daughter but DS17 finds TC more beautiful for calligraphy. He is interested in the 草书 (cursive).

 

43 minutes ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

The issue with CA is that community college is so cheap ($46 a unit!) that in my (admittedly out of date) experience it becomes the only real option.    

CA dual enrollment is very cheap and sometimes free. DS16 has been paying nothing since he doesn’t take more than 2 classes per quarter. He would end up completing his associate degree by dual enrollment without paying anything.

[Frances]

1 hour ago, WTM said:

Could I ask which LAC's offered those types of programs?

I’m in the PNW. My info is a bit dated, but when my son was in high school, Reed College, Willamette University, Linfield College, and George Fox University all had different programs for high school students. They weren’t always advertised. For instance, at WU and Reed, most referrals came from high school guidance counselors. We just dealt directly with admissions after hearing about the programs from other homeschoolers and professors and in the case of Reed, from a retired prof who recommended my son after teaching him in a community science class. They each had different criteria, applications, costs, etc. 

My son also took an amazing free class at our state medical school during high school which led to a summer of real research on his own project with full resources. I found out about this one just through searching on the internet. He might have been the first homeschooler to participate, but I know others followed after we spread the word. Again, this one mainly got students based on the recommendation of high school guidance counselors.

So I guess my advice is that you never know what might be out there and to not hesitate to inquire about opportunities at different places.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Frances

[Roadrunner]

55 minutes ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

The issue with CA is that community college is so cheap ($46 a unit!) that in my (admittedly out of date) experience it becomes the only real option.    

Actually it’s free for DE. 😋

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Actually it’s free for DE. 😋

Yup. That’s why we were really hoping to be able to go the DE route… 

We definitely still plan to use DE for non - Chinese classes.

[Arcadia]

15 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Actually it’s free for DE. 😋

DS17 did pay because he took more credits than allowed for free DE. It was still cheap to pay around $500 per quarter for three classes. He spent about $3k in 2.25 years to complete his associate degree.

ETA: the AP exam fee for an exam at you know where did cost us more than a DE class. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Arcadia

[Guest]

Well, now I have a spreadsheet with many DE chinese class options, both for CA CC's and out of state (non CA) uni's. If anyone needs it, let me know! It's not pretty (I'm not good at formatting), but it's a starting point. Perhaps I can spare you the my-head-is-exploding feeling as you hunt down options 🙂

I found out that the local state Uni has a program where anyone (seems like literally anyone, there are no registration req's) can take classes for pretty cheap (under $300/unit). At this point, I'm not sure it's better than the self study / AP / tutor route, but it's good to have data points.

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

DS17 did pay because he took more credits than allowed for free DE. It was still cheap to pay around $500 per quarter for three classes. He spent about $3k in 2.25 years to complete his associate degree.

ETA: the AP exam fee for an exam at you know where did cost us more than a DE class. 

Oh, they are nuts! I saw they were charging over $500 for AP Chinese exam. There has got to be a school that offers this for a normal fee. Chinese is such a standard language offering nowadays in CA schools. Yes, that place is nuts! But they did deliver for us this year. I couldn’t find one of the exams locally at all. 

[Arcadia]

8 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

. Chinese is such a standard language offering nowadays in CA schools. 

Some private schools do but it’s hard to find Chinese in South Bay public schools other than one in Cupertino and one in Palo Alto. AP Chinese exam requires a laptop per exam candidate which makes it more difficult to offer. 

[saw]

For Chinese, DS has for the last three years done 1:1 online tutoring through a program based in China. Not sure how that would help with traditionals characters though. He did twice-weekly classes for 30 mins each until he was 14, then moved to 50 mins twice weekly. This year he also prepared for the UK IGCSE exam. His Chinese teacher was very helpful in terms of adjusting the lessons to the IGCSE requirements, although for the last half of the year he had an English non-native Chinese speaker to prepare him specifically for the exam. Still no results but the examiner who did Chinese speaking exam told me how impressed she was by his speaking, and someone else at the exam centre told me that the examiner had said the same to her! This option was a lot less expensive than hiring a regular tutor, and it's been a really good experience for my son. I feel like, no matter what his grade, he's getting to the point where he could actually find his way around in China.

If you could PM me your spreadsheet I would be grateful -- not sure what we'll do next year as A-level Chinese will be too much alongside the other A-levels he's doing, although he'll keep going with the China program. We may need to switch to something less intensive that still provides a record.

[Guest]

On 7/9/2022 at 12:03 AM, saw said:

For Chinese, DS has for the last three years done 1:1 online tutoring through a program based in China. Not sure how that would help with traditionals characters though. He did twice-weekly classes for 30 mins each until he was 14, then moved to 50 mins twice weekly. This year he also prepared for the UK IGCSE exam. His Chinese teacher was very helpful in terms of adjusting the lessons to the IGCSE requirements, although for the last half of the year he had an English non-native Chinese speaker to prepare him specifically for the exam. Still no results but the examiner who did Chinese speaking exam told me how impressed she was by his speaking, and someone else at the exam centre told me that the examiner had said the same to her! This option was a lot less expensive than hiring a regular tutor, and it's been a really good experience for my son. I feel like, no matter what his grade, he's getting to the point where he could actually find his way around in China.

If you could PM me your spreadsheet I would be grateful -- not sure what we'll do next year as A-level Chinese will be too much alongside the other A-levels he's doing, although he'll keep going with the China program. We may need to switch to something less intensive that still provides a record.

Sorry I just saw this. For future reference -- if you "like" my post, I'll get an alert and see it more quickly. Otherwise, I won't see it unless I think to come back to this thread.

I will PM you!

 

[Guest]

The update is that we ended up going to RMP and just looking for the highest rated foreign language profs in CA community colleges that offer online courses: The Persian / Farsi teacher at Saddleback, the Arabic teacher at Saddleback, and the Japanese teacher at Foothill. 

DD was wait listed for Arabic, so she signed up for Persian. She's pretty excited. We'll see how it goes. She has what might be a heavy load, so I'm not sure about the 5.5 unit class. We have the drop deadline circled on the calendar. This class would be an elective for her - purely for fun.

She's going to do 1:1 tutoring for Chinese - the tutors are surprisingly affordable, and we found one she likes.

Thank you for all the advice!

[daijobu]

Interesting, thank you for posting.  Does RMP allow you to screen all CA CC's at once for good profs?  

If your student is interested in languages of the middle east, another option is Middle East Institute which started offering online classes during the pandemic.  I suspect this DC area nonprofit serves government employees and NGOs, but my small class includes a high school heritage speaker and the spouse of an Iranian-American.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, daijobu said:

Interesting, thank you for posting.  Does RMP allow you to screen all CA CC's at once for good profs?  

If your student is interested in languages of the middle east, another option is Middle East Institute which started offering online classes during the pandemic.  I suspect this DC area nonprofit serves government employees and NGOs, but my small class includes a high school heritage speaker and the spouse of an Iranian-American.

Unfortunately, no. She first identified the languages that offered online classes, then looked up each professor’s  rating individually..

 thanks for the info on the Middle East institute!