Updates 2023 (job hunt etc)

[bolt.]

4 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

He has made it clear umpteen times he hates all forms of therapy. 

And yet the last time he went to therapy with you he was able to express himself really well! It must have felt so good to say all of those things out loud. Maybe he even 'felt heard' too! Maybe therapy helps him whether he 'hates' it or not.

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

No I haven’t offered anyone the ticket. I would wait til it got closer and they would know it was his. Just like the smash place— he said he wants to go with dad, not me. I even offered both concert tickets to them. 

Stop giving him the option to do special things with his dad instead of you. Seriously. 

[heartlikealion]

3 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I still would force the therapy.   But maybe a new therapist could help? 

He’s seen 2 for group and has his second individual … 😕 

Edited June 9, 2022 by heartlikealion

[Catwoman]

Just now, bolt. said:

And yet the last time he went to therapy with you he was able to express himself really well! It must have felt so good to say all of those things out loud. Maybe he even 'felt heard' too! Maybe therapy helps him whether he 'hates' it or not.

Exactly!!! Giving up on therapy because the kid is saying hurtful things to you is completely misunderstanding the point of the therapy. This child needs a safe space to get his true feelings out into the open!

[Scarlett]

One thing that might help is to offer a compromise. Instead of you insisting on all your scheduled parenting time suggest dinner once a week instead. That worked with my ds and his dad. Even if he doesn’t like it or is a jerk…. Just do it. And never ever cancel or be one minute late. 

[bolt.]

1 minute ago, heartlikealion said:

He knows I paid a lawyer for over a year to fight for joint (or more) custody. I would hope he’s know by now I fought. I literally told him before you know if I didn’t care I would r be paying a lawyer to fight for time with you. 

It apparently means nothing 

If you habitually assess that "meaning" of your actions based on, "Does my highly emotional teenager who is angry at me acknowledge my good choices on his behalf?" -- that's going to be a tough standard to meet!

[heartlikealion]

Just now, bolt. said:

And yet the last time he went to therapy with you he was able to express himself really well! It must have felt so good to say all of those things out loud. Maybe he even 'felt heard' too! Maybe therapy helps him whether he 'hates' it or not.

The only new thing he said is mom’s food makes me sick and she didn’t even get me a cake. I don’t know if I learned much there other than to think “fine go eat with dad since you refuse to pick out meals and food with me.” If I’m not acting like an adult it’s because I’m worn down by criticisms of xh, GAL, and ds. 

[WildflowerMom]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

One thing that might help is to offer a compromise. Instead of you insisting on all your scheduled parenting time suggest dinner once a week instead. That worked with my ds and his dad. Even if he doesn’t like it or is a jerk…. Just do it. And never ever cancel or be one minute late. 

This is what I said, too.  You don’t have to have him over, just a lunch date or something.  Just touch base, see his face, connect for a bit.  

[Catwoman]

4 minutes ago, Junie said:

So maybe give up on the therapy.

I never went to therapy.  Would it have helped? Maybe? But, maybe not.

It could be that therapy is making it worse for him -- just another reminder that his life isn't normal.  So maybe quit pushing therapy and just work on doing whatever is normal.

The only reason I'm pushing the therapy is because the kid seemed to be able to express his pain and feelings there, and even though it's painful for Heart to hear those things, I think it's very important that she know exactly where this kid is coming from. They have years of resentment and misunderstandings to work through. If the kid keeps believing the narrative that his mom abandoned him and doesn't really love him or want him, he's never going to want to have a relationship with her -- and that is also going to affect his future relationships with women when he grows up.

[heartlikealion]

Yes I can invite him to dinner or lunch so he can complain about my food some more lol it all feels like a trap. Maybe dine out 

[Faith-manor]

When someone I know went through something very similar, she didn't give up, but she also did visitation in a neutral place which helped prevent some of the triggering. So she would make an arrangement to take him to McDonald' for french fries or at his school to watch his play practice and have a brief conversation afterward like, "You did well. I am impressed with how quickly you memorized your lines." A few times they met at the library so she could help him with homework. Something about a neutral, public place diffused the situation so their interactions were more positive. Then she began offering more when he reached adulthood and his frontal lobes were more mature. He did come around, and they have a decent relationship now.

So my advice is don't give up, but change the parameters of the time spent with you. He doesn't need to go to the concert. Don't bring it up. It is a lot of time spent together which can be too much pressure. An ice cream cone at Dairy Queen and 30 minutes of, "How's soccer?" or whatever is a building block.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Faith-manor

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, heartlikealion said:

The only new thing he said is mom’s food makes me sick and she didn’t even get me a cake. I don’t know if I learned much there other than to think “fine go eat with dad since you refuse to pick out meals and food with me.” If I’m not acting like an adult it’s because I’m worn down by criticisms of xh, GAL, and ds. 

But think of how worn down your son is, too. 

Forget about your idiot xh and the GAL, and focus on your son. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, heartlikealion said:

Yes I can invite him to dinner or lunch so he can complain about my food some more lol it all feels like a trap. Maybe dine out 

Yes definitely eat out. You need the neutral  setting. 

[heartlikealion]

We did months of group therapy with former therapist. I cried, I thought we pushed through some things… in the end ds accused me of being unauthentic as if I staged tears. Said he felt we made NO progress and the therapist and I dropped jaws. Then she dismissed us from her sessions as ds didn’t want to be there. 

[bolt.]

Just now, heartlikealion said:

The only new thing he said is mom’s food makes me sick and she didn’t even get me a cake. I don’t know if I learned much there other than to think “fine go eat with dad since you refuse to pick out meals and food with me.” If I’m not acting like an adult it’s because I’m worn down by criticisms of xh, GAL, and ds. 

*His* therapy is not about what *you* learn. It's about *him* learning to talk, and *him* learning to integrate *his* feelings about events in *his* life as *he* experienced it.

Both you and the therapist are there to serve him.

And there's plenty you can do about making and sharing food with your own son. You can't just kick every issue back to 'do it with your dad then'. Problem-solve the food as best you can with your stubborn lump of an offspring... because you love him unconditionally... and that means you work through his food issues in your home too. Not just in his other home.

[WildflowerMom]

I feel for you, seriously.  It probably feels like you thought you were escaping the jerk of an ex only to get his mini-me.    But the kid is fixable, 😉.   Keep pushing.  Texts, doesn’t matter if he acknowledges them or not.  He will always remember you sent them.    Therapy, even if he hates it. One day he’ll probably take a psych class in college and go ‘oh yeah, glad mom made me go to therapy!’    Is he about to enter high school?    Some of this may get better as he starts getting around other kids who’ve gone through much worse than a fairly cordial divorce, iykwim.  Perspective changes a lot.  
 

Eta: by therapy, I mean individual. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by WildflowerMom

[bolt.]

4 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Yes I can invite him to dinner or lunch so he can complain about my food some more lol it all feels like a trap. Maybe dine out 

What you need to remember is that every interaction is a 'good interaction' even if it's a 'bad interaction'. Because it's good to be together, even if not everything pans out. There can be complaints about a meal, and *also* that can be a really positive time otherwise. And even if it's not a positive time at all, it's still *time* -- and that matters.

"I had a crummy lunch with my mom this week. She's such a bad cook." -- Is better than, "I haven't seen my mom at all this month. I guess she doesn't care much."

[Farrar]

I think you have to cultivate a practice where you're giving to him without any expectation of any acknowledgment or affection, in fact, where you're steeled to him rejecting it. And where you don't get emotional about it.

In my example above with my mom and my estranged adult brother, she makes and sends very small things. She does not go there, she does not do grand gestures. Going there is too triggering when he starts to get angry with her. Doing big things feels like too much because she's on a limited income - when he isn't grateful or it doesn't result in a better relationship, it's just too upsetting that she wasted that much time and money. She can't just pour money into him (though he has indicated many times he'd like that and expects it). 

I think you need to find small things to give or offer that YOU can manage when he inevitably twists and rejects. Again, it might help to picture him as one of those "Why is my toddler crying?" meme kids. It's not personal. And I know you can't give a ton because you're figuring out yourself. Which is good! So while you keep doing that, find a small practice. Maybe you send him a music video or a meme every two days. Maybe you invite him to eat a meal together once a week. Maybe you just send a little thinking of you thing every day. Whatever it is... it's okay if it triggers anger from him. So pick something with some interval you're okay with that for.

[heartlikealion]

I only told him to go with his dad to the smash it place because he refused to go with me and that was the only thing he showed interest in. So I ordered him a gift card online. he also kept asking to watch Big Bang Theory so I got hbo max that weekend 

[Junie]

4 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

He knows I paid a lawyer for over a year to fight for joint (or more) custody. I would hope he’s know by now I fought. I literally told him before you know if I didn’t care I would r be paying a lawyer to fight for time with you. 

It apparently means nothing 

What he sees is that you split up his family.

Now, I don't know all of what was going on in your marriage/family -- maybe there was very good reason.

But what he knows is that you are the one who initiated the divorce.  Which caused all of this.  He sees it as your fault.

Personally, it took me a long time -- well into my own marriage -- to have a good understanding of what actually happened.

[bolt.]

Just now, heartlikealion said:

I only told him to go with his dad to the smash it place because he refused to go with me and that was the only thing he showed interest in. So I ordered him a gift card online. he also kept asking to watch Big Bang Theory so I got hbo max that weekend 

Giving him a gift card (to use as he likes) is not the same thing as *telling* him to go with his dad. A gift card is a gift. Telling him what to do with it, by intentionally making it a dad-vs-mom relationship 'thing', it was pointless and a bit rude.

[maize]

6 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

If I’m not acting like an adult it’s because I’m worn down by criticisms of xh, GAL, and ds. 

This is an untruth you are telling yourself.

You get to choose your behavior.

You really do.

Your impulses may be coming from a place of discouragement and hurt, and that discouragement and hurt is very real.

You still get to choose how you respond.

I am sorry it is so hard. And I recognize that no-one can be consistently the stronger and better and more forgiving person all the time.

Have any of your therapists talked with you about using validation in interactions with your son? Validation is about acknowledging the reality of a person's feelings, even if the things they are saying and doing have a lot of inconsistencies and inaccuracies. It doesn't mean agreeing with what they are saying, but about letting them know you recognize and acknowledge the feelings they are experiencing.

. 

[heartlikealion]

Ok guys I’ll try to set up public outings at reasonably priced dining places. 

We’ll discuss therapy again… possibly once a month or take a break I have no idea anymore 

[Farrar]

One more framing thought. You're not doing the things you do for the child you have now. I mean, he sounds like a jerk. You're doing them for the child and the relationship you hope to have in a decade or more.

[heartlikealion]

Just now, bolt. said:

Giving him a gift card (to use as he likes) is not the same thing as *telling* him to go with his dad. A gift card is a gift. Telling him what to do with it, by intentionally making it a dad-vs-mom relationship 'thing', it was pointless and a bit rude.

I can’t remember how the convo went but he was open to going with dad. I think this was before summer visitation so I didn’t get him on Tuesdays/Wed and I said you can redeem the free tv on one of those nights with dad. He gets a free tv to smash. You’re right I should have been more diplomatic 

[maize]

This video explains validation; it is worth taking the time to watch.

It isn't a magical fix-all for parent/teen relationships, but it is a good tool.

https://www.mcleanhospital.org/video/validating-child-adolescent-thoughts-and-feelings?utm_campaign=COVID-19&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8n7xkVptn_H2MC1VGLw9BIiDJAJplLYhnhr1j6_S4w6CGTIzZAjcUZPA-RvLvAjj8BK4wb8Z-0JuIPv0Iz2tR4uK7bDKRToN-_dQJHmdqbRzdce_Q&_hsmi=213381560&utm_content=213381560&utm_source=hs_email&hsCtaTracking=1bba4726-0025-4231-abed-8b349c85935b|9232456a-c755-4c1c-8f98-221d29520164

[scholastica]

15 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

He knows I paid a lawyer for over a year to fight for joint (or more) custody. I would hope he’s know by now I fought. I literally told him before you know if I didn’t care I would r be paying a lawyer to fight for time with you. 

It apparently means nothing 

He doesn’t have the adult perspective of what all that means. And your Xh certainly never taught your kids the value of a dollar, so telling him you spent money for a lawyer doesn’t mean a thing to him. Also, knowing you are strapped may make him feel guilty of you tell him you spent money on him or for him. You show him you love him by showing up for him. Does he play a sport or instrument? Show up for the games or recital. School play? Show up. School events or honors? Show up. He’s also at an age where his identity as a man is being informed by your xh. Your xh has taught him how to be a man and he’s learned all the dysfunctional ways of communicating that your ex has displayed over the years.

[heartlikealion]

3 minutes ago, maize said:

This is an untruth you are telling yourself.

You get to choose your behavior.

You really do.

Your impulses may be coming from a place of discouragement and hurt, and that discouragement and hurt is very real.

You still get to choose how you respond.

I am sorry it is so hard. And I recognize that no-one can be consistently the stronger and better and more forgiving person all the time.

Have any of your therapists talked with you about using validation in interactions with your son? Validation is about acknowledging the reality of a person's feelings, even if the things they are saying and doing have a lot of inconsistencies and inaccuracies. It doesn't mean agreeing with what they are saying, but about letting them know you recognize and acknowledge the feelings they are experiencing.

. 

Yes, I said “thank you for sharing” in therapy but now that the therapist encouraged me to *only* say that I think it’ll sound robotic. 

And I apologized at a different session for an incident that really upset him. In this session he named one sweet he likes and the therapist asked did you bring that up in the bakery? And he said no and the therapist was trying to help ds see I couldn’t read his mind. 

[heartlikealion]

1 minute ago, scholastica said:

He doesn’t have the adult perspective of what all that means. And your Xh certainly never taught your kids the value of a dollar, so telling him you spent money for a lawyer doesn’t mean a thing to him. Also, knowing you are strapped may make him feel guilty of you tell him you spent money on him or for him. You show him you love him by showing up for him. Does he play a sport or instrument? Show up for the games or recital. School play? Show up. School events or honors? Show up. He’s also at an age where his identity as a man is being informed by your xh. Your xh has taught him how to be a man and he’s learned all the dysfunctional ways of communicating that your ex has displayed over the years.

I showed up at his awards but he didn’t see me. I texted him that I was there. His cross county meets last all day in another town so I wasn’t able to attend. You never know when they will run 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, heartlikealion said:

Yes, I said “thank you for sharing” in therapy but now that the therapist encouraged me to *only* say that I think it’ll sound robotic. 

And I apologized at a different session for an incident that really upset him. In this session he named one sweet he likes and the therapist asked did you bring that up in the bakery? And he said no and the therapist was trying to help ds see I couldn’t read his mind. 

Personally, I think, “Thank you for sharing,” does sound robotic and insincere, unless it is a phrase you have always used with your son in the past. Maybe you could say something that is natural and genuine. I don’t think it would be wrong to say that you hadn’t known something or that you hadn’t realized he felt a certain way. Saying something like that would acknowledge what he said, without agreeing with him that his perceptions were correct.

[YaelAldrich]

I have a bonus son (the best friend of my son who is my heartache) and he has similar issues with his (divorced since early childhood) parents.  Both parents have issues (mental, physical, and emotional) that don't help the situation.  But I know at least the mom (my friend) has tried over and over to do therapy with both of them over the years and every time it turns into him terminating it after a short period because "she won't change" or stuff like that.  He comes to us asking why she can't be what he wants (which in my opinion is something almost mythical and certainly not what she is able to do with her challenges).  I keep telling him she loves him and wants to have a relationship with him, but that relationship may not be the exact one that he thinks is his right. 

He is angry at his father because the son wants the father to confront/directly talk to the (bonus) son about his (the bonus son's) non-religious behaviors so they can have an "open dialogue".  I explained that his religiously observant father doesn't want to have the conversation because it is all too likely the son will start to complain about the religion and religious people being brainwashed and the like (as he has done when we have had that conversation).  I tried to explain all parents have hopes and dreams for each child and obviously deviating from those dreams is painful to the parent and they are entitled to those feelings and have to work though the grief on their own so confronting a son about that knowing there will likely be argument and not dialogue isn't all that appealing!  It needs to be enough that the father doesn't negatively talk to the bonus son about his non-religious behaviors.  Both sides need to be able to communicate peacefully and I know that this bonus son is still hurting and lashing out at his parents.  He's young and mad and can't see outside himself.

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I showed up at his awards but he didn’t see me. I texted him that I was there. His cross county meets last all day in another town so I wasn’t able to attend. You never know when they will run 

You’re doing your best. You may not be able to attend every event, but you can acknowledge everything and ask him how it went and if he had fun. That way, you’re still expressing an interest in what he does.

[heartlikealion]

Re: gaslighting — I was referring to the definition of making someone second-guess their reality, not a power dynamic definition.

Re: of course coming over makes him sad because family isn’t whole. By that logic, being at both homes should make him sad.  

[scholastica]

Just now, heartlikealion said:

I showed up at his awards but he didn’t see me. I texted him that I was there. His cross county meets last all day in another town so I wasn’t able to attend. You never know when they will run 

It’s hard, but just do the best you can.

He may not respond to your text and act like he cares, but he does. You are the safe parent to act out against. Continuing to show up and to try to have a relationship with him in the face of his ill treatment of you shows him that you love him unconditionally. This is not to say you can’t correct rudeness or hatefulness. You can model healthy relationship behavior in the face of it and set boundaries. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I think this is an incredibly, incredibly difficult situation for everyone involved and y'all need to be careful not to attack.  @heartlikealion's emotions are raw and if you were in her shoes yours would be as well. It is easy to throw out "you're the adult here" but being attacked and hurt and pushed away is a lot to deal with emotionally. 

I'm so very sorry, heart. I think you should focus on loving him even though he is being a total a$$ right now. It is easy to focus on all that you are doing to love him rather than just .... love him, without expecting anything in return. This takes practice and you will fail at times. It is what he needs rn and he needs it with no guilt applied. I know where your heart is by expressing all that you've done or spent on him but that could be getting applied (by his own mind and heart) as guilt. Kids in this situation already struggle with immense guilt. He could be thinking "but I wasn't worth all of that" or "I don't deserve that". In the future, make the cake, don't ask. Text him things that don't need a response and don't expect one, just reiterate that you love him or miss him. Your world is falling apart and it is easy to anxiously cling to a kid and expect them to make you feel secure (not sure if you're doing this) but he can't be your security rn. He is barely holding it together on his own. Give him some space while reiteratively in a non-guilt inducing way that you love him. And try try try not to hold these things against him. He's a kid and this stage will most likely pass and your relationship with him is dependent on not allowing yourself to get bitter or angry to push him away.

Edited June 9, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

Let me explain. 

I’m not going to urge him to come over to abuse me. He literally stays up late, sleeps in til noon or later. Refuses to eat sometimes stating, “I’m sad.” Then leaves and later says my food makes him sick. 

Fine. Then don’t come over. 

I’m using the concert tickets if xh has the kids. I’ll go with someone else. 

That is an appropriate boundary to set with an adult. 

it is NOT an appropriate boundary to set with a kid. We do not tell kids we will only be their mother if they are nice to us. 

[heartlikealion]

Yes I did feel attacked in this thread in some posts. Thank you. 

I’ve also had my group therapist and friends say fire the individual therapist (both of the ones ds has had) based on unhelpful things that happened. But they don’t understand you can’t just swap therapists on a dime. Not in this delicate situation. 

[heartlikealion]

Just now, ktgrok said:

That is an appropriate boundary to set with an adult. 

it is NOT an appropriate boundary to set with a kid. We do not tell kids we will only be their mother if they are nice to us. 

Ok. But I don’t know what to do for my sanity 

[Catwoman]

9 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Re: gaslighting — I was referring to the definition of making someone second-guess their reality, not a power dynamic definition.

Re: of course coming over makes him sad because family isn’t whole. By that logic, being at both homes should make him sad.  

But maybe he’s sad there, too, and no one is telling you about it.

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Ok. But I don’t know what to do for my sanity 

Honestly, my ds was always a good kid as a teen, but I think he may have been pretty atypical. Just read a bunch of threads on this forum and you will see countless moms complaining that their teens are acting very similarly to yours — and they had always been pleasant before the hormones kicked in. 

It’s likely that not all of this is as personal as you think it is. Part of it could just be your son going through a particularly obnoxious phase. 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

8 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Ok. But I don’t know what to do for my sanity 

Assume it isn't about you but his own internal struggles with this situation and added to an already volatile age and stage of life. If you think it is about you, you'll drive yourself mad or distance yourself from him. Don't take it personal because 99% chance it has little to do with you. Resolve to see it as his own internal struggle, don't react or say things too quickly, and love him in spite of it. Hard hard to do, yes, but I think it is your only hope. Vent to us, not him. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[WildflowerMom]

1 minute ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

Assume it isn't about you but his own internal struggles with this situation and added to an already volatile age and stage of life. If you think it is about you, you'll drive yourself mad or distance yourself from him. Don't take it personal because 99% chance it has little to do with you. Resolve to see it an his own internal struggle, don't react or say things too quickly, and love him in spite of it. Hard hard to do, yes, but I think it is your only hope. Vent to us, not him. 

And use the ignore button.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

If he’s not NT, remember that he’s likely to not have or have a delayed theory of mind.  He’s 14. He may not even understand completely that you have your own life and thoughts and feelings.  

My own children, who live in a financially comfortable situation with two parents who love each other, still hate all my food and complain about everything in the home and everything that I do.  My oldest attends therapy and complains about me. I just go with it. I’m mom. I expect them to hate me for a while.

[bolt.]

12 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Ok. But I don’t know what to do for my sanity 

I do a technique that I call "1001 clean slates". You know how on old sit-coms, there's no sense that the people even remember what happened to them 'last week'? They just start each new episode with fresh faces for a new adventure?

Every time I see my teen daughter I act like nothing upsetting happened the last time we spoke. It's always, "Good morning sweetie!" or "How was your day?" or "Did you get caught in the rain?" -- just fresh faced small talk, every time, guaranteed. If I can't pull it off, I take some time to myself until I can pull it off.

If something upsetting does happen, I often (a) let it roll off my back and respond with silence or a pause, ( b ) say my own perspective briefly and diplomatically in an 'I have a perspective too' way. Just one sentence that starts with, "For me...". But don't expect a response and don't respond to any further escalations, (c) Find an excuse to walk away or wander off -- not in anger just going somewhere else for a bit, or (d) I lose track of my parenting role and begin arguing like we both matter, and I really need to be understood and she really needs to comply with my perspective. Then I sometimes yell, cry, and regret it. or (e) I get really worked up and need to remove myself from the situation, go for a drive, and scream things that I only believe when I am in anger where nobody can hear me. Then I remember why I don't really believe those things, process my deeper feelings, and take some time for self care before I go home.

Obviously I like a-c better than d or e, but even if d happens, I return to pleasant small talk at our very next encounter.

I also use a technique that I call "affirmation vending machine" -- my daughter seeks my approval, so any time I see that, I just spit out 2 to 5 authentic compliments. It's surprising how well that works!

Edited June 9, 2022 by bolt.

[Catwoman]

4 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

And use the ignore button.  

Except if it’s me. Then don’t use it. 😉 

[Ann.without.an.e]

2 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I do a technique that I call "1001 clean slates". You know how on old sit-coms, there's no sense that the people even remember what happened to them 'last week'? They just start each new episode with fresh faces for a new adventure?

Every time I see my teen daughter I act like nothing upsetting happened the last time we spoke. It's always, "Good morning sweetie!" or "How was your day?" or "Did you get caught in the rain?" -- just fresh faced small talk, every time, guaranteed. If I can't pull it off, I take some time to myself until I can pull it off.

 

 

This is HUGE, because they need this from us. Often times they know they messed up but have no clue how to repair that but even if they have no idea that they were jerks, end I'm the end they are just goobers at that age and need us to be stable. Which I know is so hard when you're feeling so much emotionally like @heartlikealion is rn. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

The last texts I sent were never acknowledged but I guess I can still send them. 

Of course you keep sending them! He should not have to earn your attention. 

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

One of the things to know is that many 14 yos who are in totally healthy, functioning families, who have no serious issues are ALSO behaving this way with their mothers and also say these sorts of things, including these wild contradictory things. I know that your experience has you hyperalert to this stuff and also deeply triggered by it. But this is relatively normal and if you were in a supportive relationship with a partner, it wouldn't feel this hurtful. 

A 14 yo's brain is doing a lot of the same things that a toddler's brain is doing. On some level, yes, he's gaslighting you and he's imitating his father, I'm sure. But on another level, he's like the toddler who demands a certain snack a certain way, then has a tantrum when you give it to them. 

YUP. There were days that by the first sentence out of my son's mouth I knew it was going to be one of "those" days. the days where he was just picking a fight to pick a fight. He wasn't angry at ME, he was angry at the world, or hopped up on too much testosterone, or his brain was pruning important neurons, I don't know. But I was able to idenfity that it had nothing to do with me, not really. It was just him arguing to argue. A few times I even slipped in a "the sky is blue" comment to see if he'd argue that too, for fun, lol. Seriously, at that age some kids will hold their breaths and pass out just to spite you if you mention the importance of breathing. It's normal. Annoying, but normal. 

And it is REALLY helpful to think of it as similar to toddler behavior - where they have meltdowns over having ketchup on their fries even though they have always asked for ketchup on their fries. 

 

46 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Also, he really needs this therapy so he doesn't have completely messed-up relationships as an adult. This isn't just about you and your relationship with him. This is about his LIFE. Trust issues don't magically go away. Abandonment issues can stay with a person for life. This kid has been emotionally traumatized and he needs help so he can learn to deal with it in a healthy way.

He has had horrid examples of what healthy relationships look like. He NEEDS therapy so he has a chance at better for himself one day. Otherwise, the cycle continues. His future kids and wife need him to get therapy now. 

41 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Yes I can invite him to dinner or lunch so he can complain about my food some more lol it all feels like a trap. Maybe dine out 

If parents stopped doing things with their teens because the teens complained, parents would never ever spend time with their teens. 

10 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Ok. But I don’t know what to do for my sanity 

You do your own therapy. You take a parenting class. You read books. You find other moms of teens to vent to. You get a pedicure. Whatever. 

[WildflowerMom]

3 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I do a technique that I call "1001 clean slates". You know how on old sit-coms, there's no sense that the people even remember what happened to them 'last week'? They just start each new episode with fresh faces for a new adventure?

Every time I see my teen daughter I act like nothing upsetting happened the last time we spoke. It's always, "Good morning sweetie!" or "How was your day?" or "Did you get caught in the rain?" -- just fresh faced small talk, every time, guaranteed. If I can't pull it off, I take some time to myself until I can pull it off.

If something upsetting does happen, I often (a) let it roll off my back and respond with silence or a pause, ( b ) say my own perspective briefly and diplomatically in an 'I have a perspective too' way. Just one sentence that starts with, "For me...". But don't expect a response and don't respond to any further escalations, (c) Find an excuse to walk away or wander off -- not in anger just going somewhere else for a bit, or (d) I lose track of my parenting role and begin arguing like we both matter, and I really need to be understood and she really needs to comply with my perspective. Then I sometimes yell, cry, and regret it. or (e) I get really worked up and need to remove myself from the situation, go for a drive, and scream things that I only believe when I am in anger where nobody can hear me. Then I remember why I don't really believe those things, process my deeper feelings, and take some time for self care before I go home.

Obviously I like a-c better than d or e, but even if d happens, I return to pleasant small talk at our very next encounter.

I also use a technique that I call "affirmation vending machine" -- my daughter seeks my approval, so any time I see that, I just spit out 2 to 5 authentic compliments. It's surprising how well that works!

I do this, too.   I completely forget everything that made me mad.  Just full on don't think about it again.  It's over.  The past is the past.  I've always done this with ds, so it's easy for me, but for other people it probably takes some practice, talking to yourself in your head, pep talks to yourself.  

[heartlikealion]

I have to go do something now but I am feeling better about the situation and I appreciate your feedback

[ktgrok]

Also, it is VERY common for a person who is insecure in their relationship with you to push and push and push you away, because they think you will eventually anyway. They'd rather it be on their timeline, and under their control, since they think it will happen anyway. Your job is to prove them wrong.