I’m so furious on ds’ behalf and may do something bold in a few hours

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

30 minutes ago, freesia said:

Just a comment on off topic pregnancy.  I’ve known girls from all kinds of families who got pregnant. The conservative girls are more likely to have their babies which makes the pregnancy more public and known. 

Yeah, I know it’s off topic, but this fits my own personal anecdota.  I knew one homeschooled girl from high school who got pregnant at 17.  IMO, her parents weren’t very controlling though—they knew the boyfriend was sneaking in and spending the night. BF’s parents, despite being a pastor’s family, just overlooked it. They got married and had a couple children, until he came out gay a few years ago.  I knew several other formerly homeschooled and very religious couples who got pregnant out of wedlock, but they were 18-21 and simply got married.  It was kind of a scandal but since they got married quickly it was overlooked. 

My cousin had a baby in high school, but they weren’t religious—for whatever reason she really wanted a baby at 16 so she had one.  I know more women who would have been in my age group then who got pregnant and are open that they’ve had an abortion. So while in my 20s it seemed skewed to me honestly, thinking it was all the religious girls who got pregnant, I now realize most of those girls just got married young while many of my secular peers had an early abortion. I don’t really think that super religious teenage girls are any more or less likely to get pregnant, unless it’s because they may not have as easy access to birth control as other teenagers.  I think the rates of premarital sex are probably similar.

but that’s all anecdotal with nothing really to back it up. 

[Jaybee]

I didn't see the OP, but will just say that it sounds similar to a situation our ds had. The mom pushed and pushed the relationship, but ds was not in a hurry (on our advice). Then the mom jumped in deeper and started pushing another guy on the daughter, and told ds to stay away from her and stop texting her. Really??? I was furious. It was good to see what more of the dynamics were, however. Bullet dodged. I do think ds would have broken things off as relationship dynamics became more clear, because he is pretty astute about people, but there would have been even more hurt. He learned a lot, so not a wasted experience.

[Soror]

8 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Yeah, I know it’s off topic, but this fits my own personal anecdota.  I knew one homeschooled girl from high school who got pregnant at 17.  IMO, her parents weren’t very controlling though—they knew the boyfriend was sneaking in and spending the night. BF’s parents, despite being a pastor’s family, just overlooked it. They got married and had a couple children, until he came out gay a few years ago.  I knew several other formerly homeschooled and very religious couples who got pregnant out of wedlock, but they were 18-21 and simply got married.  It was kind of a scandal but since they got married quickly it was overlooked. 

My cousin had a baby in high school, but they weren’t religious—for whatever reason she really wanted a baby at 16 so she had one.  I know more women who would have been in my age group then who got pregnant and are open that they’ve had an abortion. So while in my 20s it seemed skewed to me honestly, thinking it was all the religious girls who got pregnant, I now realize most of those girls just got married young while many of my secular peers had an early abortion. I don’t really think that super religious teenage girls are any more or less likely to get pregnant, unless it’s because they may not have as easy access to birth control as other teenagers.  I think the rates of premarital sex are probably similar.

but that’s all anecdotal with nothing really to back it up. 

Quick google shows religiosity is linked with higher teen pregnancy rates, even accounting for income and abortion rates. I'm not that invested to research into this further. The article does bring up the use of bc as a possible factor, like you mentioned, that is my suspicion as well.

[SKL]

1 hour ago, Soror said:

Quick google shows religiosity is linked with higher teen pregnancy rates, even accounting for income and abortion rates. I'm not that invested to research into this further. The article does bring up the use of bc as a possible factor, like you mentioned, that is my suspicion as well.

Not sure how they define religiosity.

My friend who is a Jehovah's Witness has a number of grandchildren born out of wedlock.  She isn't an extremely controlling person, nor is she neglectful.  I think in that family's case, it may be more cultural, and that there are parallel correlations between that population and both religion and teen pregnancy, but without causation between the two.  I think this is probably true in some large US communities.

I'd also note they are just making state-wide observations.  Are they saying that in State 1 there is both a high rate of conservative religious beliefs and a high rate of teen pregnancy?  That doesn't tell us much about causation IMO.

[SKL]

Anyhoo, correlations aside, my point is that you don't have to be a religious fanatic to need to watch what your minor daughter is doing.

[Katy]

2 hours ago, Soror said:

Quick google shows religiosity is linked with higher teen pregnancy rates, even accounting for income and abortion rates. I'm not that invested to research into this further. The article does bring up the use of bc as a possible factor, like you mentioned, that is my suspicion as well.

I think kids from families who press that responsibility and consent are more likely to make a conscious decision to have sex and use birth control. And kids from religious families are more likely to pretend sex isn’t a choice and they just fell into temptation which doesn’t leave any room for responsibility. At least that was my observation. Birth control fails frequently enough that I still know plenty of liberals who chose abortion though. Many because they realized the man would be a terrible father, and others for economic reasons. 

I went to a very secular university and became Christian while I was there. At the time I went to a somewhat conservative church. The people at both were drastically different 

[Farrar]

My experience with heavily religious control of girls has been that girls in that situation are basically given two options - conform to what we want, or be the sort of "bad" girl who gets pregnant. And between those two options, sometimes getting pregnant and running off to be "bad" is way more appealing than being controlled by your parents and fitting the sort of life they want for you. It's the lack of options and black and white thinking that causes the biggest problems.

[ktgrok]

Don't talk to them - you don't WANT to fix this. Because these are not people you want your kid involved with. Even if it went as well as it could, and they decided to let him date her after all, then what? He's stuck dealing with this family that is likely not going to be a great influence on him and may make him feel badly about himself? That's not a win. 

Look at it s dodging a bullet. This family is no prize, and you do not want to fight to get back into their lives. 

[SKL]

22 minutes ago, Farrar said:

My experience with heavily religious control of girls has been that girls in that situation are basically given two options - conform to what we want, or be the sort of "bad" girl who gets pregnant. And between those two options, sometimes getting pregnant and running off to be "bad" is way more appealing than being controlled by your parents and fitting the sort of life they want for you. It's the lack of options and black and white thinking that causes the biggest problems.

Or just the fear of telling Mom or Dad that you're getting intimate and need to talk about protection.

What's ironic to me is that often, the moms who are so black & white were themselves sexually active teens / had teen pregnancies.

I don't quite understand the logic of "I did it [at a time when society was even harsher about it], but I am certain that words and threats will prevent my kid from doing the same thing."

That said, being open is no guarantee either.  I know a mom who told her daughters early on that she didn't care what they did as long as they used protection.  Her kids had all the tools etc. to prevent pregnancy.  Yet both of them had pregnancies out of wedlock.

Wish there really was a simple formula for it.  😛

[Farrar]

13 minutes ago, SKL said:

Or just the fear of telling Mom or Dad that you're getting intimate and need to talk about protection.

What's ironic to me is that often, the moms who are so black & white were themselves sexually active teens / had teen pregnancies.

I don't quite understand the logic of "I did it [at a time when society was even harsher about it], but I am certain that words and threats will prevent my kid from doing the same thing."

That said, being open is no guarantee either.  I know a mom who told her daughters early on that she didn't care what they did as long as they used protection.  Her kids had all the tools etc. to prevent pregnancy.  Yet both of them had pregnancies out of wedlock.

Wish there really was a simple formula for it.  😛

Agreed. The parents were wild, therefore they assume the kids will be. And they also still have a black and white mentality about it. I've seen it in secular families too - I just have seen it more in religious families.

I do think there are things we know work better than other things. Like, say, making it clear that everyone makes good and bad choices and kids will eventually figure out their own way in life no matter what the parents envision. But yeah, even with that, it's still not a formula.

[Soror]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Or just the fear of telling Mom or Dad that you're getting intimate and need to talk about protection.

What's ironic to me is that often, the moms who are so black & white were themselves sexually active teens / had teen pregnancies.

Well, we know that being a teen mom means you are more likely to have girls that are also teen moms. I've always wondered why the reasons behind this. I know 2 teen moms who then had girls who became teen moms. They raised their children in stable homes, without poverty. One was very religious and strict, the other I don't know. I wondered why did they still fall into that statistic, they didn't have other risk factors.

Rabbit hole--- interesting study showing states with higher levels of searches for condoms had lower teen birth rates--- higher level searches about abortion was correlated with higher teen birth rates.

eta: Of course, statistics are pretty meaningless when your dealing with individual cases. It would be nice if there was a magic formula you do xyz and your kids will turn out "perfectly", whatever that means. Most people are trying their best.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Soror

[ktgrok]

7 minutes ago, Soror said:

Well, we know that being a teen mom means you are more likely to have girls that are also teen moms. I've always wondered why the reasons behind this. I know 2 teen moms who then had girls who became teen moms. They raised their children in stable homes, without poverty. One was very religious and strict, the other I don't know. I wondered why did they still fall into that statistic, they didn't have other risk factors.

Rabbit hole--- interesting study showing states with higher levels of searches for condoms had lower teen birth rates--- higher level searches about abortion was correlated with higher teen birth rates.

eta: Of course, statistics are pretty meaningless when your dealing with individual cases. It would be nice if there was a magic formula you do xyz and your kids will turn out "perfectly", whatever that means. Most people are trying their best.

Honestly, I wonder if it is just because they have a genetic tendency to mature sooner, thus hormonally more mature and more likely to both want sexual relationships and to draw male attention? Or more likely to ovulate regularly, or just more fertile? I mean, LOTS of kids have sex, but maybe it is the more fertile for whom birth control failures end up as actual pregnancies. 

[Soror]

Just now, ktgrok said:

Honestly, I wonder if it is just because they have a genetic tendency to mature sooner, thus hormonally more mature and more likely to both want sexual relationships and to draw male attention? Or more likely to ovulate regularly, or just more fertile? I mean, LOTS of kids have sex, but maybe it is the more fertile for whom birth control failures end up as actual pregnancies. 

IDK the two I'm speaking of did not mature early. Not sure if there has been any research into this. One thing I read was that the situations making teen pregnancy more likely are often repeated (like poverty, lack of education) and that is a reason why. The ones I knew did not have those risk factors but still didn't escape it. 

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

My experience with heavily religious control of girls has been that girls in that situation are basically given two options - conform to what we want, or be the sort of "bad" girl who gets pregnant. And between those two options, sometimes getting pregnant and running off to be "bad" is way more appealing than being controlled by your parents and fitting the sort of life they want for you. It's the lack of options and black and white thinking that causes the biggest problems.

If I found myself having to choose between being the “good” daughter whose future appears to be to remain the stay-at-home-for-decades-caretaker-for-siblings-and-parents…. I just might see being the “bad” girl and grabbing a husband out if it as an avenue of escape. Just sayin. 

[Lecka]

I have known someone where the controlling Dad was very, very controlling and there was a very dysfunctional environment.  And then it was how she could leave home.  
 

My husband joined the Army to get away from them.  
 

Not a lot of options were available.  

[Farrar]

5 hours ago, Soror said:

Rabbit hole--- interesting study showing states with higher levels of searches for condoms had lower teen birth rates--- higher level searches about abortion was correlated with higher teen birth rates.

Given how difficult abortion is to access for most people, especially teens, that seems pretty obvious. Not to mention that people change their minds about the abortion sometimes and that nearly always results in a baby. But if you change your mind about the condom (oy) then that does not always result in a baby... unless you change your mind over and over and over.

[teachermom2834]

I know from friends that had babies as teens it is very difficult to frame the discussion of “don’t have a baby as a teen” while at the same time saying “but I am so glad I had you and it all worked out and I will support you if you get pregnant”. That is just not an easy discussion and I think sometimes it does end up being generational when a generally happy ending plays out. The teen doesn’t see how hard it was when she was a baby. She just sees the general successful outcome later on.  
 

I know some families with lots of out of wedlock babies and teen and young adult pregnancies and in those families it seems like the groundswell of support that plays out for the first mom and baby sets a tone. I’m pretty pro-life so I like to see that but it does at times create a bit of a sticky wicket as far as a type of contagion. Or so it appears. But I’m going to keep supporting moms and babes. 
 

I think that could be part of why the teen mom trend can seem generational or familial. You would think people would learn but maybe what they learn is that their family will step up and it will be OK and they can keep the baby.

Edited March 31, 2022 by teachermom2834

[Storygirl]

I didn't read the OP, but I just wanted to add, as the parent of an older teen whose phone is greatly restricted, due to the affect that access has on his mental health and behavior, that there can be reasons that parents enact restrictions that are for the well being of the teen. My teen's friends and their parents would not know these details or be entitled to know them and may have uncharitable opinions about our parenting (I wouldn't know). But they don't know the heart of what we are dealing with. Parental restrictions do not necessarily equal inappropriate controlling behavior. Some teens need more scaffolding.

 

[Guest]

storygirl, yes, I agree; there can be times when it’s necessary to do something that seems controlling to other parents because that is what that child needs. I very much doubt that it’s the case in this instance because of the way it went down. You didn’t see the OP, but the info was in there. The mom texted my son and spelled out what she was doing and why. Then she blocked him and made it impossible for him to apologize, explain, discuss, etc. Which I think is a craptastic way to teach kids what to do when there is a values conflict. 

[Catwoman]

8 minutes ago, Quill said:

storygirl, yes, I agree; there can be times when it’s necessary to do something that seems controlling to other parents because that is what that child needs. I very much doubt that it’s the case in this instance because of the way it went down. You didn’t see the OP, but the info was in there. The mom texted my son and spelled out what she was doing and why. Then she blocked him and made it impossible for him to apologize, explain, discuss, etc. Which I think is a craptastic way to teach kids what to do when there is a values conflict. 

As weird as it sounds, the mom might not have been telling your son the real reason why he can't date her dd any more. She might have picked the most convenient excuse she could think of, and then blocked him so she wouldn't have to explain further.

The real truth could be that her dd's behavior was worrisome in some way. Maybe the mom caught her texting with a friend about how she wanted to have s*x with your son, or how she was totally in love with him and wanted to marry him right after high school, and the mom got concerned that the relationship was getting too serious too quickly.

It could be anything. The unfortunate part is that you and your son may never know the truth. 😞 

Can your son find out if she gave a reason for quitting her job?

[Guest]

Cat, it’s true it could be *anything*, and it’s true it might not be the most obvious likely answer. (See Occam’s Razor, though…) However, that is 100% why people - parents first, to provide the example; kids after when they learn good conflict resolution skills - should be willing to discuss something and allow for the opportunity to resolve issues. 
 

He will be at work today and might be able to make some contact with her or see what exactly is going on with work. He doesn’t know for certain if she was forced to resign or what; he just saw on their work app that all her shifts were “released”, which is what you do if an emergency arises and you have to miss your shift. You post your shifts as released and another employee picks up the shift. 
 

One thing that’s quite different in society now, compared with when I was growing up, is that it’s pretty difficult to make someone completely uncontactable if contact existed.  Nearly everybody uses computers, phones and tablets and there are SO many ways to message someone. So I think at minimum he will likely be able to get more of the story from her and, who knows; maybe they can maintain a slight friendship that could become more in the future. Given their ages, it’s at least possible. 
 

[Guest]

Also, just adding this:  I pretty much saw this coming when they told him they couldn’t pick him up for church but postulated, “…could your parents take you?” They live *absurdly* close to be unwilling to pick him up. 
 

Ds just passed his drivers test yesterday, so it is possible he could go to her church. I’m still on the fence about whether or not it’s a good idea. He would be able to see/talk to her in person, but I’m not keen for those parents to see/talk to him if they spotted him. Also, I have major reservations about that church because of people I know who go there; I saw how they behaved re: the pandemic. 

[Rosie_0801]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Ds just passed his drivers test yesterday, so it is possible he could go to her church. I’m still on the fence about whether or not it’s a good idea. He would be able to see/talk to her in person, but I’m not keen for those parents to see/talk to him if they spotted him. Also, I have major reservations about that church because of people I know who go there; I saw how they behaved re: the pandemic. 

Chasing this girl is not a good idea.

[TechWife]

54 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Chasing this girl is not a good idea.

Agree. I can’t imagine anything good coming from it. While I’m sure he thinks highly of her, he may have just dodged a bullet in regards to getting involved with  an unhealthy family dynamic. If the mom really is exerting unnecessary control and this isn’t part of a larger issue with the girlfriend, then that desire to control won’t go away with a deeper relationship - it may get worse. I think he may have dodged a bullet with this one. 

[SKL]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

Also, just adding this:  I pretty much saw this coming when they told him they couldn’t pick him up for church but postulated, “…could your parents take you?” They live *absurdly* close to be unwilling to pick him up. 
 

Ds just passed his drivers test yesterday, so it is possible he could go to her church. I’m still on the fence about whether or not it’s a good idea. He would be able to see/talk to her in person, but I’m not keen for those parents to see/talk to him if they spotted him. Also, I have major reservations about that church because of people I know who go there; I saw how they behaved re: the pandemic. 

You've judged this family quite a bit in this thread, so it sounds like there isn't a cultural fit there.

I could think of lots of reasons why carpooling with my next door neighbor would not work.  None of them involve  (or them) being nasty.

I think rather than trying to brainstorm how your son could see this girl again, your energies might be better spent on helping him learn to get over the disappointment and move on.

Edited March 31, 2022 by SKL

[ktgrok]

She has a crazy family, goes to a church with crazy people, her family's culture and value system are proplematic - why on earth would he continue to pursue her, potentially getting her in more hot water with her parents as well as furthering his own involvement with the crazy. Just...no. At their ages it doesn't really matter if she is not like the family and like the people at church, as she is not independent from all that. 

He should be glad to know up front how awful this was likely to turn out. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

Please don't quote, I will delete. Thanks

I didn't see the original post but I get the gist of it so I will share our experience. 

Sometimes it is the boy's family. When dd was 17 she had pretty strong feelings for her best friend and they loved spending time together. He wasn't allowed to date but we could take hikes as families and they would walk ahead of us all so that they could have their own convos. The family was pretty legalistic and controlling and believed it was wrong to have feelings for the opposite sex at their age. They supported the friendship though. Let me clarify, we didn't hold these beliefs. DD's friend told his mom that he was struggling with feelings for dd. The mom decided they couldn't spend time together anymore. They could text some and see each other in homeschool class settings but not see each other outside of that. But she never told her ds that, she only told me. He would make comments to dd like "maybe we can go on a hike soon" in texts. When I pushed about how we needed to sit down and have a convo with the teens so we're all on the same page, the mom would refuse to speak on it and say "just please don't tell dd, she doesn't need to know". I eventually told dd. DD told the son that they weren't allowed to see each other outside of class and he seemed so confused said said he needed to talk to his mom. His next text to her was "We can't talk anymore I'm sorry". They never spoke again because everything shut down from the pandemic a few days later. They haven't spoken or seen each other since. The mom sent a very passive aggressive letter to dd basically making it sound like dd was trying to drive a wedge between the boy and his mom by asking him about it. DD never blamed the mom or said anything evil about her. She simply said "your mom has decided that we can't see each other outside of class" which was the truth. Which makes dd think that the mom probably twisted it to make dd seem evil or bad?

This was no small feat to overcome emotionally for dd. He was the first guy she ever really had feelings for and he obviously felt the same way for dd. She had no closure, felt like maybe this wasn't his choice at all, and assumes she was painted in a very negative and untrue light. 

I tried to text the mom to talk about it but she said "nope, not happening". We were friends. She wouldn't return texts, I just wanted a conversation about it all with the kids involved so we could all have understanding or closure. Nope. 

Sometimes people don't give you the peace or closure you need. You just have to move on and realize that these aren't the sort of people you want your kiddos to date or marry anyway. DD sees now that she wouldn't have enjoyed having to step in line with such legalism. DD is a believer but she still would've been compromising who she is and her values in order to be accepted by this kid and his family. 

It took us way too long to have peace about the situation because it sucks, it really does. I'm sorry y'all are going through this sort of heartbreak 😞 Unfortunately, You are wasting your breath to try to work it out with this family. Focus on getting ds to move on and realize this is a situation he doesn't want to be in anyway. ❤️ 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Ann.without.an.e]

17 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

She has a crazy family, goes to a church with crazy people, her family's culture and value system are proplematic - why on earth would he continue to pursue her, potentially getting her in more hot water with her parents as well as furthering his own involvement with the crazy. Just...no. At their ages it doesn't really matter if she is not like the family and like the people at church, as she is not independent from all that. 

He should be glad to know up front how awful this was likely to turn out. 

 

You're right but from experience, Quill's ds isn't going to be able to see it that way ... yet. He will see it one day. In the middle of that heartbreak and pain, your brain doesn't make those connections. It is all pain and feelings and that's fair. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

Also, just adding this:  I pretty much saw this coming when they told him they couldn’t pick him up for church but postulated, “…could your parents take you?” They live *absurdly* close to be unwilling to pick him up. 
 

Ds just passed his drivers test yesterday, so it is possible he could go to her church. I’m still on the fence about whether or not it’s a good idea. He would be able to see/talk to her in person, but I’m not keen for those parents to see/talk to him if they spotted him. Also, I have major reservations about that church because of people I know who go there; I saw how they behaved re: the pandemic. 

 

Thinking on this more here, I wouldn't keep your ds from going to the church, I would simply have a convo about the situation and how you feel it may be a lose-lose situation for him. In the end, you don't want to be viewed as the parent who was keeping him from seeing her. Let him make the church call but you can gently help him see that maybe it isn't the situation he wants for himself? 

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

Thinking on this more here, I wouldn't keep your ds from going to the church, I would simply have a convo about the situation and how you feel it may be a lose-lose situation for him. In the end, you don't want to be viewed as the parent who was keeping him from seeing her. Let him make the church call but you can gently help him see that maybe it isn't the situation he wants for himself? 

That’s pretty much what I have done so far. I said to him some things about not being *opposed* to him going to her church, or any church for that matter, but that I definitely did not want him to go to that church to mollify the parents or get on their good side. 
 

But part of me is concerned about what the parents might do/say to him if they see him there and I/dh will not be there to defend our son. I grant you he is close to adulthood and that will be true soon enough anyway if it isn’t already. But I grew up with people who were unkind in this way and I really want to keep him away from spiritual abuse if I can. 
 

Thank you for sharing your story. I agree that is super awful. I guess it is some small comfort that they haven’t known each other for very long and, if she stops working at the restaurant, at least they won’t encounter each other otherwise. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

You've judged this family quite a bit in this thread, so it sounds like there isn't a cultural fit there.

I could think of lots of reasons why carpooling with my next door neighbor would not work.  None of them involve  (or them) being nasty.

I think rather than trying to brainstorm how your son could see this girl again, your energies might be better spent on helping him learn to get over the disappointment and move on.

I can’t get past the feeling that you’re trying to bait me into a discussion about judging them. People who are cruel to my kid do not deserve my kind assessment of them, whatever their reasons for putting the kabosh on the teens. There are countless more gentle ways to say, “I don’t think this is a good fit” besides directly rejecting a young man you barely know and blocking his contact so there can be no further discussion. 

[itsheresomewhere]

Tell your son that it happens to adults too and it doesn’t make it feel any less hurtful.  I lost what I thought was a close friendship with a lovely lady over the word- crappy.  I was talking about something that had happened with me to two friends.  There were a few others ways to describe it but crappy was the nicest way. She took a huge offense to this word, told me how it made me so much less intelligent and how it showed her how I really was ( still have no idea what she meant).  The other friend there were confused and disgusted by her behavior. She never spoke to me again.  
 

For the record-  I would still use the word crappy to describe it again.  Kind of glad I didn’t use the word shitty as it might have caused a heart attack with the reaction to crappy. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

I can’t get past the feeling that you’re trying to bait me into a discussion about judging them. People who are cruel to my kid do not deserve my kind assessment of them, whatever their reasons for putting the kabosh on the teens. There are countless more gentle ways to say, “I don’t think this is a good fit” besides directly rejecting a young man you barely know and blocking his contact so there can be no further discussion. 

I don't know if SKL meant it that way at all, but it hit me that way as well. When people hurt you so deeply, it is natural to shift into negative thoughts and feelings about them. Maybe it is a self protective reaction? It is hard to wrap your head around it when people handle things in certain ways. It is a feeling of deep betrayal that you can't really understand unless you've been there. Some of my friends just didn't understand why I was so hurt or upset about our situation. "They aren't worth your time, move on, etc". From an outsider's view that is the logical thought but gosh emotions and feelings make that so much harder than it sounds or anyone can understand. So, yea, judging happens. Period. 

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

You're right but from experience, Quill's ds isn't going to be able to see it that way ... yet. He will see it one day. In the middle of that heartbreak and pain, your brain doesn't make those connections. It is all pain and feelings and that's fair. 

Oh, yeah...he wont' see it that way. But Quill can try to keep in in mind as she guides him. 

1 hour ago, Quill said:

But part of me is concerned about what the parents might do/say to him if they see him there and I/dh will not be there to defend our son. I grant you he is close to adulthood and that will be true soon enough anyway if it isn’t already. But I grew up with people who were unkind in this way and I really want to keep him away from spiritual abuse if I can. 
 

 

You might also explain that the parents might make things even harder on their daughter if he does that. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Unless he wants to go to the church for the church's sake, I would not advise him to go there.  You don't know if she's onboard with her parent's decision or not but trying to get around those boundaries are stalking behavior.  (Mild but still. . . )  A bright motivated young lady could seek him out if she really wanted to do so. 

[Katy]

This whole situation reminds me of Lydia on Welcome to Plathville.  Sweet girl.  Ridiculously over controlling narcissistic parents, which frankly seems common in fundie circles IME.  Trying to protect kids from the world instead of preparing them to live in it.

[Rosie_0801]

I'd tell him it was completely ungentlemanly to go to her church and take away any more of the insignificant amount of peace the young lady has.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

3 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Unless he wants to go to the church for the church's sake, I would not advise him to go there.  You don't know if she's onboard with her parent's decision or not but trying to get around those boundaries are stalking behavior.  (Mild but still. . . )  A bright motivated young lady could seek him out if she really wanted to do so. 

He just needs to stay away from the church and the family. I know he really likes her.  I know it feels like they’re judging him(they probably are) and your family.  Growing up in that environment I know many parents who would have found mild cuss words to be huge red flags and wanted to relationship to end.  Your son lives in a totally different world than families like that.

This church and this family are not going to be a good cultural fit for your son, and he needs to just stay away. 

[Grace Hopper]

14 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

He just needs to stay away from the church and the family. I know he really likes her.  I know it feels like they’re judging him(they probably are) and your family.  

I agree with the above. If this is a “meant to be” type of relationship, the young woman will find a way to reconnect with your son after she finds a way to successfully break free of her oppressive family. Short of her doing that - on her own terms, without anything that may appear to be coercion on his (or your) part - I cannot picture any chance of a happy future for them. 
 

I still believe the best course of action for him is to continue in his normal daily patterns, not trying to veer across her path intentionally, and for you to continue to be sympathetic to his hurt feelings. You can go out in the yard and break things when he’s not looking. 

[Catwoman]

I’m not sure if this has already been covered, but are we 100% sure that the girl wasn’t the one who wanted to break up with Quill’s’s son, but maybe she was too immature to handle it on her own? Her mom could have been helping her by acting like she was the one who was forcing the breakup. 

I will be very curious to see how the girl behaves at work, assuming she hasn’t quit altogether.

I feel so sorry for Quill’s son because I’m sure it’s such a helpless feeling to have someone break up with him, and he really doesn’t know what he did wrong (if anything) — and what makes this even worse, is that the girl wouldn’t, or wasn’t allowed to, even speak to him directly about it.

[Guest]

Maize suggested that possibility. Of course, anything is possible, so I guess we’ll never know. It seems really doubtful to me, though, just judging from the texts that were going back and forth before the mom abruptly barged in and cut it off. I can’t imagine the young lady is such an amazing actor she was one minute saying “Miss you!” With a bunch of heart and happy emojis while really thinking, “Boy do I wish this guy would buzz off!” 
 

We’ll see if their paths cross at work; it didn’t look like that would happen. 

[Catwoman]

Can he ask his boss if she quit? If he finds out that she quit, at least then he won’t waste his time waiting around and hoping she will end up working the same shift with him one day.

It’s a weird situation for sure. Your ds probably dodged a bullet, but the poor kid doesn’t realize that right now. 😞