Be careful with The Potter's School (TPS)

[CathyW]

Our family has used The Potter's School (TPS) for the last three years and spent thousands of dollars on their classes for our three homeschooled children.  We have been delighted by the progress and growth of our children, especially in the foreign language and writing classes taken there.  The teachers at TPS have been excellent.  However, a recent experience with their company has soured us on ever using TPS again.  

In February, we were told my son's Writing 6 teacher was leaving, and we would need to choose to join another section of class.  My son logged into his new class, and I left for a few minutes, and when I returned, my son was in tears.  He told me that the teacher had said he was in the wrong class.

Long story short, I emailed support@thepottersschool.org politely with my concerns about the teacher and asked to have him changed to another teacher.  The reply from TPS was that my son was shy and that a class change could not happen.  When I emailed back more aggressively that this was unacceptable for us AND emailed the teacher that I needed another class for my 6th grade son, I was dropped like a hot rock.  We were emailed polite responses and told that we would be receiving a refund for the remainder of the year.  

On its face, the process appeared to be normal, but I felt deeply offended and lost sleep because of this paragraph from the "polite email" sent by support@thepottersschool.org because it insinuated that our family had psychological issues:

"However, we see that you intend to hold TPS and the teacher unilaterally responsible for unrecoverably traumatizing your student. TPS cannot continue to provide you teaching where you would make the school and teacher unilaterally responsible for your student's mental health and reactions in all situations. The classrooms are as safe as can be (and we provide full information on this on our web site), the course content is carefully designed for young learners, and the teachers are protective, gracious, and affirming. However, the school and teachers cannot take the unilateral responsibility for your student's emotional responses and mental health as you are demanding."

Due to my curiosity about who The Potter's School is (because no mailing address or phone number is given online), I went to Dun and Bradstreet's website to learn more about the company.  And I felt like the little barking dog Toto who pulled the curtain back to reveal the Wizard of Oz....because I learned that TPS has one employee based in Springfield, VA.  And the one employee who replied through support@thepottersschool.org is the owner of the company.  https://www.dnb.com/business-directory/company-profiles.potters_school.395c6322a7c9dcbc4a04fe896222e01c.html

 

TPS has wonderful teachers, but they are all contractors employed by one person who is not afraid of offending parents or teachers.  The quality of the man who owns a one-person company will determine the quality of the products and customer service you receive.  We made waves by not accepting the single course of action that my family was given: accept the new teacher you chose earlier or we will kick you out because it's all your fault for being difficult.  That is why we will never use TPS again.

[maize]

You joined the forum just to post this negative review?

[cintinative]

We have been using TPS for three years and have not had an issues.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with them, but I agree with @maize. I don't really understand how it is the kid logged into the wrong class and why the teacher told him he was in the wrong class.  Support is available at all times during classes. 

[Clemsondana]

It sounds like maybe the teacher didn't know/had forgotten about somebody new joining their class and thought that the student had logged in to the wrong class?  I'm not understanding what was so upsetting - it seems like a misunderstanding.  I'm thinking that my kids would have likely said 'Let me get my mom' or something like that if they weren't comfortable explaining it themselves.  

I also don't know what was shocking about there only being one person running it and the teachers being contractors.  That's a common model for tutorials.  If the teachers are salaried with a set curriculum, etc, then there is concern that the enterprise will be classified as a school and subject to a bunch of regulations and tax implications.  For most, the independent contractor set-up is preferable and lets the instructors maintain the freedom choose their own work load, to design classes that suit the interests or needs of particular students, or to address the instructors preferred topics.  It's the same model that many co-ops use, just taken online.  

[CathyW]

Yes, the teacher was not alerted that my son was joining her class.  She may have flashed back to the early pandemic online classrooms when kids were dropping into Zoom classes because the security features were not tight.  TPS has fine security, but she did not know this.

My concern was the treatment I received as a parent from TPS support.  It didn't really matter why my child and I wanted to switch to another class. We probably should have lied and said we had a scheduling conflict and needed a different day/time.

When we asked to have help in changing teachers and expressed the reasons we believed the teacher was not a good fit for our son, our request was denied absolutely.  And the advice given to us was laced with a "you're the problem, we aren't" attitude.  If I had not researched the company online, I would have felt far more hurt by the insensitive treatment we received from a request to change a teacher.  

Many families are unaware that companies that call themselves online schools may be owned and run by one person who contracts out the labor.  All the emails we received from TPS support used the phrases "the school" or "we at TPS".  My posting is meant to warn others to be careful online because not everything is as it seems when you are using online classrooms.

[Arctic Bunny]

Can you explain what happened between your son being told he was in the wrong class and the email from the school dropping you? It feels like an important piece is missing.

[CathyW]

I wasn't able to get my son to rejoin the class because he kept saying the teacher told him he was wrong.  I decided it would be best to just alert TPS through the online chat that there had been a problem.  TPS chat was helpful in saying that teacher was not aware she had a new student.  They would notify her, but she was not at fault.  They apologized for what happened to my son.  

I said that I was very sorry, but I still did not feel comfortable with my son attending the class.  All I knew at the time was a teacher had upset my child and had not listened to the class recording yet. TPS chat said they could look into the possibility of changing the class but could not promise they would be able to accommodate the request.  That should have been my clue that it was not going to happen.

After hearing nothing from TPS, I wrote an email to support@thepottersschool.org and, little did I know, began communicating with the owner of TPS.  And I reiterated what had occurred with my son and the conversation with the chat online.  Then, I was too honest. 😬

I expressed being upset at the lack of communication between tech admins at TPS and the new teacher.  They had dropped the ball by not alerting her to the new student.  My hope had been that he would have been welcomed as a new student joining the class.  I felt the teacher was not wise enough to teach my son because she immediately accused my son to be in error.  

The response from TPS was that my son was shy and that I should attend the next class session with him.  If I had have done this, everything would have been fine.  Instead, I escalated the situation by listening to the recording of the class, heard the teacher say, "I think you're wrong" and persisted in my request to have my son changed to a classroom with a better teacher. 

I also emailed the teacher to explain why I didn't want to have my son in her class.  My boldness and bluntness was too much honesty.  TPS sent me an email with the above quoted paragraph.  And my son was kicked out with the promise of a refund (which we have not seen yet).

It was my previous MBA education that got me thinking.  In what state was the Potter's School located?  How many people ran it?  How large an organization had I just offended?  I felt really bad and lost sleep because of the email communication I'd received and given about customer support lacking at TPS and couldn't understand why it had all gone so wrong.  Then I saw it was a one-man operation, and it all made perfect sense.  The quality of a one-man business is based on the quality of the person running it. 

My parents ran a small real estate business, buying small houses and office buildings in northern Virginia for over 50 years.  They were very good at it because they listened to the people who leased and rented space from them to work and live and had a high level of personal customer service.  They sought to improve the properties they owned and fixed problems quickly.  At times my mother would get a call for help.... A/C too cold, lost keys, leaking faucet, running toilet, etc. and immediately call a repairman or call my father to help fix a problem. 

My expectation of service at TPS was of a similar level of help.  We've spent thousands of dollars there to help educate our children.  Our family was experiencing confusion and problems with a new teacher.  We desired a change.  The Support channels at TPS were unable to listen to our call for help and expressed personal animosity toward us when we insisted on needing a change.  Several of my friends have experienced similar frustrations when asking for help or refunds at TPS. 

I wanted to review the company online, and I thought the Well Trained Mind forum would be a good place to spread the word to be careful.  If you know of a better place to provide reviews on homeschool class providers, I would love to know this.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

So you didn't supervise a sixth grader and help him at home?  And then went ballistic on the teacher and school?  And you are now on a mission to trash their reputation?  They are right.  This school is not a good fit for you.  Fortunately it is a good fit for a great many parents and kids. 

[freesia]

Warning: You did not post that you just wanted us to agree with you. As this is a forum for discussion and advice, not a review board, the following is my opinion.  Skip if you don't want honest feedback.

Ok,I think that you way over-escalated. To be honest, I have no idea why you wanted a teacher change that made your child cry.  I also don't think that they need to honor every whim. Per class, TPS is a steal compared to private school.  Schools don't just change teachers for you over a misunderstanding.  It seems they tried to solve the problem. Things like that happen in life. IMHO, you'd do better to model a non-reactive response  to your ds and one that models resiliency in face of something like this. "Ds, miscommunication happens, the teacher wasn't angry,just uninformed. We can sort it out easily". I also have no idea why it bothers you who owns TPS.  Private schools and companies can drop students over anything they want, really.  Your response is to take your money elsewhere.

[CathyW]

Yes, I over-reacted and over-escalated my response.   I blew it and have paid the price.  Our money will be spent elsewhere.

At first, I was trying to be helpful in alerting TPS that their support channels of communication were not working well.  Then when I was told to try again with the new teacher, I declined.  It is my fault for blowing the situation out of control.  I was unreasonable to ask for a different teacher to replace the writing teacher that left mid-year.  

However, I've never been told by customer service (or anyone else) that my children or I have emotional / mental health issues and never been kicked out of an educational environment.  And the insensitive response from customer support was out of line, especially from a company that professes to be a Christian one. 

My view of TPS is that they should not call themselves a school if they aren't one.  It is an online co-op employing many teachers that we pay to educate our children.  I expected a higher level of customer service and was disappointed.

[ScoutTN]

You should have just attended the next class with your child, as TPS suggested, and let the initial misunderstanding go. 
 

I’d be upset to have a mid year teacher change and to have a glitch with the first day in a new section, but you seem to have overreacted, imo.
 

 

[ScoutTN]

1 minute ago, CathyW said:

Yes, I over-reacted and over-escalated my response.   I blew it and have paid the price.  Our money will be spent elsewhere.

At first, I was trying to be helpful in alerting TPS that their support channels of communication were not working well.  Then when I was told to try again with the new teacher, I declined.  It is my fault for blowing the situation out of control.  I was unreasonable to ask for a different teacher to replace the writing teacher that left mid-year.  

However, I've never been told by customer service (or anyone else) that my children or I have emotional / mental health issues and never been kicked out of an educational environment.  And the insensitive response from customer support was out of line, especially from a company that professes to be a Christian one. 

My view of TPS is that they should not call themselves a school if they aren't one.  It is an online co-op employing many teachers that we pay to educate our children.  I expected a higher level of customer service and was disappointed.

Christians sin and make mistakes.

Many, many online programs work on this model, for the reasons a pp mentioned. Very few are legally schools. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Of course it is an online co-op. 

You were given perfectly reasonable ways to work out the problem.  You refused to take them.  Should people then speculate on your spiritual state?  (The answer is no and neither should you.)

 

 

[Clemsondana]

5 hours ago, CathyW said:

Many families are unaware that companies that call themselves online schools may be owned and run by one person who contracts out the labor.  All the emails we received from TPS support used the phrases "the school" or "we at TPS".

A few may use a different model, but most of the places that have Academy or School in their name aren't actual schools unless they are an offshoot of a physical school (I think Calvert is an example of this).  I guess that they could call it a tutorial, but for most people that implies that the company will provide tutoring services for other classes, which is not what they are offering.  A program would have to be quite large before it could employ multiple teachers full-time, with all of the associated costs. 

[CathyW]

Thank you, Clemsondana.  I appreciate the logical explanation of how online educational organizations are set up.

Jean in Newcastle, I'm really "feeling the burn" from your emboldened opinions of me.  Probably that's payback from my criticism of TPS. 

Yes, I question the spiritual depth of an organization and expect a higher level of "What would Jesus do?" from places that educate and teach Christian classes to children.  I was pretty traumatized and frustrated by my interactions with TPS.  I'm still in shock about it.

[KSera]

3 hours ago, CathyW said:

However, I've never been told by customer service (or anyone else) that my children or I have emotional / mental health issues and never been kicked out of an educational environment.  And the insensitive response from customer support was out of line, especially from a company that professes to be a Christian one. 

I feel like I do have some understanding where your reaction comes from, because two of my kids are of a type that would have felt incredibly scolded by the teacher’s response and one of those would have had tears and the other would have never wanted to go back (my other kids would all have been able to take this in stride and bounce back from it without much difficulty). When my more sensitive kids were still as young as 6th grade, I didn’t have a good handle on where their reactions came from. While it seems a definite overstep for TPS to have told you your child has emotional issues, I do caution you not to take the idea itself as a personal insult. Some people are just much more sensitive and require a greater degree of help learning resiliency and being able to handle these kinds of situations. Believe me, I really do understand what it’s like with kids like this. But it’s not a blame thing, it’s just how some kids/people are. I would have benefited from working more on helping my kids with this at that age (or rather, I think they would  have benefited). Maybe it would have improved things for them sooner, maybe it wouldn’t. I don’t know. I don’t think any of it has anything to do with a Christian response per se, though. I do think I would hope an organization that has worked with such a large number of kids would be more familiar with this personality type and a little more understanding with working with you, but I’m also not surprised given my experiences (not with them, just in general) that they’re not.

[Arctic Bunny]

This is what I am reading:

- Teacher A was no longer available, you had to pick a new session. TPS said they would inform the new teacher.

- Your sixth-grade son (you haven’t specified an age, or whether he is neurotypical, so it seems safe to assume 11yo) logged into the new session. Teacher B was not aware he was joining. B said son was in the wrong class. Son disagreed, B said he was wrong. This prompted your son to burst into tears  and refuse to participate with B as teacher.

- Because B was not told your son was joining their session, and therefore tried to tell him he was logged into the wrong class, you deemed B not wise enough to teach your son, and explained to TPS in an email the trauma that being told he was wrong caused.

- In your own words, TPS responded politely to all your bold and blunt emails.

- TPS considered whatever you wrote to them to be sufficient cause to no longer want to accept you as a client.

- You found a homeschooling forum on the internet where you hoped your one-sided story would be enough to trash them.

Possibly neither you nor your son have the emotional maturity to deal with unexpected situations? This seems like something that might occur in life. Walking into the wrong classroom? Wrong meeting? Arriving to an event at the wrong time? 

[JazzyMom]

I’m sorry you had a bad experience.  Even if you did overreact, I’m sure it felt awful to be dropped like a hot potato and told you have emotional problems.  I have been in customer service situations where my concerns were dismissed and no one cared if I took my business elsewhere, and it always stings.  Venting helps initially, but I hope you can soon move forward and put this behind you.  Maybe one day you will even laugh about it!  (((hug)))

[Frances]

6 hours ago, CathyW said:

Thank you, Clemsondana.  I appreciate the logical explanation of how online educational organizations are set up.

Jean in Newcastle, I'm really "feeling the burn" from your emboldened opinions of me.  Probably that's payback from my criticism of TPS. 

Yes, I question the spiritual depth of an organization and expect a higher level of "What would Jesus do?" from places that educate and teach Christian classes to children.  I was pretty traumatized and frustrated by my interactions with TPS.  I'm still in shock about it.

While I can understand being upset by the email you received, I’m sure the owner was also pretty taken back by your seemingly over the top response to a simple misunderstanding. I’m guessing he’s dealt with some interesting people over the years and has probably come to realize that quickly taking a financial hit and moving on is best in the long run for everyone.

I do have to say though, have you been living outside the US for the last six years? Anyone still expecting Christian behavior from any “Christian” church, school, organization, group, etc. is going to be sorely disappointed more often than not.

[CathyW]

Thanks JazzyMom and Lovinglife123.  I was stressed out because there was so much out of my control that day.  A cat was going at both ends with what may have been food poisoning, so I was cleaning up all sorts of icky things.  One vehicle was diagnosed with needing a huge repair.  And my son was upset and confused.  It an awful "trifecta of trash" day.  It was my fault for blowing up, and I over-reacted badly.

Francis, I would agree that kindness from Christian organizations in the US has been on the decline.  We have been here in US, but I guess we've been a little sheltered as members of some great Christian organizations near us with dedicated believers who strive to serve others first.  And I have made some excellent friends in those groups in the last decade. 

We live in an expensive area where most people are non-believers and vote for liberal politicians.  Rather than create a fuss, we quietly live alongside them avoiding discussions about politics, religion, or money.  But if those topics arise, I usually nod my head in agreement and change the topic....a chicken tactic, but better than losing a new acquaintance. 

And that's probably what should be done with this discussion.  🤣  I learned my lesson and need to nod my head and move on.

[Frances]

31 minutes ago, CathyW said:

Thanks JazzyMom and Lovinglife123.  I was stressed out because there was so much out of my control that day.  A cat was going at both ends with what may have been food poisoning, so I was cleaning up all sorts of icky things.  One vehicle was diagnosed with needing a huge repair.  And my son was upset and confused.  It an awful "trifecta of trash" day.  It was my fault for blowing up, and I over-reacted badly.

Francis, I would agree that kindness from Christian organizations in the US has been on the decline.  We have been here in US, but I guess we've been a little sheltered as members of some great Christian organizations near us with dedicated believers who strive to serve others first.  And I have made some excellent friends in those groups in the last decade. 

We live in an expensive area where most people are non-believers and vote for liberal politicians.  Rather than create a fuss, we quietly live alongside them avoiding discussions about politics, religion, or money.  But if those topics arise, I usually nod my head in agreement and change the topic....a chicken tactic, but better than losing a new acquaintance. 

And that's probably what should be done with this discussion.  🤣  I learned my lesson and need to nod my head and move on.

Non-believers who vote for liberal politicians. Sounds like an area where people really care about each other. You are fortunate. I live in such a neighborhood and it is a wonderful, caring community.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Frances

[cintinative]

Gently, when we perceive we are mistreated by someone who calls himself/herself a Christian, there is a very particular way we are to resolve that conflict given in Scripture (Matthew 18). 

16 hours ago, CathyW said:

 

Yes, I question the spiritual depth of an organization and expect a higher level of "What would Jesus do?" from places that educate and teach Christian classes to children.  I was pretty traumatized and frustrated by my interactions with TPS.  I'm still in shock about it.

I don't think you have room to make this criticism until you have followed what Jesus prescribed in Matthew 18 and gone back with another person and confronted the issue.

It sounds like when you went to them, you were inflexible about the outcome. They perceived that as a lack of forgiveness on your part, and decided to let you move on rather than deal with future issues.

All of us should be very careful about criticizing the true faith of another person based on one negative experience.  Often times the log in our own eye is obscuring our proper sight of the speck in another's.  Matthew 7

It sounds like you had a very stressful day that day. Have you asked yourself if quite possibly you overreacted due to that?  Sometimes when we react in a situation badly, deep down we know we have done wrong, but our pride prohibits us from admitting that.  We would rather be angry and hold onto bitterness than be humbled and admit we could have behaved in a more godly way. Are you willing to accept that you have made the situation worse by responding with agitation and anger instead of forgiveness and understanding?  Are you willing to ask them for forgiveness? 

[CathyW]

Thank you, Cintinative.  Your gentle words of advice about the Christian way to handle conflict are right.  I did react because of stress, pride, and anger.   And I was inflexible because I saw incompetence and desired something better.  The problem grew into a log in my eye when I inflexibly insisted on a change.  

Matthew 18:15-17 (NLT) says:  "If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the offense.  If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back.  But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses.  If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church.  Then if he or she won't accept the church's decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector."

I am probably the sinner in this passage.  My reaction to the owner of TPS at support@thepottersschool.org was harsh.  I was judged to be one who does not listen and certainly did not accept the refusal for a teacher change.  And I acted on my own, without one or two others beside me.

Emailing back and forth is difficult when resolving a conflict.  It is more impersonal than a forum.  I am thankful to have been able to communicate with you and with other homeschool moms about this situation.  I'm still working on forgiveness and understanding.  

[maize]

@CathyWyou have responded graciously to comments from forum members. That suggests a willingness to listen and consider.

In that light, I am going to gently suggest that you may, in your considering, wish to consider whether the child who cried and refused to re-enter a class after the teacher mistakenly told him he was wrong might in fact benefit from evaluation for anxiety or other difficulties. I will not try to diagnose from afar, but unless this was an exceptionally stressful day for the child, that reaction is not typical for a sixth grader.

I have an entire houseful of high anxiety kids; helping them navigate setbacks isn't easy.

[cintinative]

6 minutes ago, maize said:

 

In that light, I am going to gently suggest that you may, in your considering, wish to consider whether the child who cried and refused to re-enter a class after the teacher mistakenly told him he was wrong might in fact benefit from evaluation for anxiety or other difficulties. I will not try to diagnose from afar, but unless this was an exceptionally stressful day for the child, that reaction is not typical for a sixth grader.

11 hours ago, CathyW said:

Thanks JazzyMom and Lovinglife123.  I was stressed out because there was so much out of my control that day.  A cat was going at both ends with what may have been food poisoning, so I was cleaning up all sorts of icky things.  One vehicle was diagnosed with needing a huge repair.  And my son was upset and confused.  It an awful "trifecta of trash" day.  It was my fault for blowing up, and I over-reacted badly.

 

 

Sorry about the failed quotes. I just wanted to note that it does sound like this was a particularly stressful day in this family's house.  One of my boys in 6th grade would have been upset about the sick cat and probably very distracted. And if the vehicle repair was causing a lot of stress to the parents, the child might have absorbed some of that stress as well.  I don't know how to put words to it exactly, but sometimes our kids reflect the stress and tension we are feeling in the way they respond to even little things.  So perhaps it was just a really bad day overall? The kind of day you want to end with a big scoop of ice cream and a good movie?

[EKS]

It seems to me that the major issue here is that you have a sixth grader who bursts into tears over nothing.  If it were my kid I'd be focusing my attention on helping him to develop resilience. 

[Renai]

1 hour ago, maize said:

@CathyWyou have responded graciously to comments from forum members. That suggests a willingness to listen and consider.

In that light, I am going to gently suggest that you may, in your considering, wish to consider whether the child who cried and refused to re-enter a class after the teacher mistakenly told him he was wrong might in fact benefit from evaluation for anxiety or other difficulties. I will not try to diagnose from afar, but unless this was an exceptionally stressful day for the child, that reaction is not typical for a sixth grader.

I have an entire houseful of high anxiety kids; helping them navigate setbacks isn't easy.

56 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Sorry about the failed quotes. I just wanted to note that it does sound like this was a particularly stressful day in this family's house.  One of my boys in 6th grade would have been upset about the sick cat and probably very distracted. And if the vehicle repair was causing a lot of stress to the parents, the child might have absorbed some of that stress as well.  I don't know how to put words to it exactly, but sometimes our kids reflect the stress and tension we are feeling in the way they respond to even little things.  So perhaps it was just a really bad day overall? The kind of day you want to end with a big scoop of ice cream and a good movie?

and @EKS

My daughter just turned 11 and will be in 6th grade next year. She has anxiety and I can imagine her reacting similarly in that situation.  She'd be upset about the sick pet (we have two dogs and a rabbit, take your pick, lol), be moving into a new class (she's slow-to-warm, so that in itself would be stressful and cause anxiety), and after having the courage to go into the new classroom be told she was in the wrong class. Boom. 

I would have talked to her in that situation and let her know that maybe the teacher didn't get the message of a new student, and have her with me as I draft an email. When I tell her about a possible problem and work it out with her, I find it helps with her anxiety, and gives her skills to work things out as well. It took me a while to get to this point, as she is my only child with this issue, and she's the youngest. I'm more thick-skinned, and learning to deal with these strong emotions has been...interesting.

I also think that pre-teens are at a weird age and going through all kinds of emotions and wanting to be accepted. Being told they are in the wrong class can look like a personal rejection, and can be taken hard (regardless if they have anxiety).

[EKS]

@Renai That is exactly what I mean by working with the child to develop resilience. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by EKS

[KSera]

1 hour ago, EKS said:

It seems to me that the major issue here is that you have a sixth grader who bursts into tears over nothing.  If it were my kid I'd be focusing my attention on helping him to develop resilience. 

I keep feeling defensive for this kid, because there have been many comments that seem unkind about the fact that he has this issue (the above is more mild than a few of the others, but I’m just using it as a jumping off). As I said myself, it’s something to be worked on, but it also should be understood by others that even working on it doesn’t mean it can necessarily be made to go away. My kid with this kind of sensitivity is an adult and has had lots of time now being aware of being this way and working on it, yet still has stronger than typical emotional responses. They are especially prone to tears coming easily, which they hate, but some people are wired that way. While I totally agree with working on resiliency and helping kids with their emotions, I also think it would be a benefit for people to be more understanding that it’s not a character fault in a kid when they struggle with this, and just to give a little grace and not shame them for it. They usually feel enough shame as it is. 
 

(And I agree with @maize that anxiety is often underlying—again, not a thing you can just easily make not part of a person.)

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

20 minutes ago, KSera said:

I keep feeling defensive for this kid, because there have been many comments that seem unkind about the fact that he has this issue (the above is more mild than a few of the others, but I’m just using it as a jumping off). As I said myself, it’s something to be worked on, but it also should be understood by others that even working on it doesn’t mean it can necessarily be made to go away. My kid with this kind of sensitivity is an adult and has had lots of time now being aware of being this way and working on it, yet still has stronger than typical emotional responses. They are especially prone to tears coming easily, which they hate, but some people are wired that way. While I totally agree with working on resiliency and helping kids with their emotions, I also think it would be a benefit for people to be more understanding that it’s not a character fault in a kid when they struggle with this, and just to give a little grace and not shame them for it. They usually feel enough shame as it is. 
 

(And I agree with @maize that anxiety is often underlying—again, not a thing you can just easily make not part of a person.)

 

But the OP did not seek out this forum to ask for advice on how to help her anxious child navigate these kinds of obstacles and how to help him to be more resilient.  That would have been a great way to deal with this issue.  Instead, she came here to try to tank a business simply because she was unhappy with them. 

[Renai]

2 minutes ago, KSera said:

... While I totally agree with working on resiliency and helping kids with their emotions, I also think it would be a benefit for people to be more understanding that it’s not a character fault in a kid when they struggle with this, and just to give a little grace and not shame them for it. They usually feel enough shame as it is. 
 

(And I agree with @maize that anxiety is often underlying—again, not a thing you can just easily make not part of a person.)

 

I only saw one comment that was not so kind towards the child. Most of the responses mentioned the OP and how her response could affect his (in the future), and the motive behind the post.

She's acknowledged that. And then some of us mentioned ways how we could possibly respond to a child in that situation and assist them. I've come a long way in this journey myself, as have others, so I think the next responses were there to help the child, not shame him (except the one). 

[EKS]

24 minutes ago, Renai said:

I only saw one comment that was not so kind towards the child.

25 minutes ago, Renai said:

...so I think the next responses were there to help the child, not shame him (except the one). 

Are you referring to my post?

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

On 3/8/2022 at 2:08 PM, CathyW said:

 

My view of TPS is that they should not call themselves a school if they aren't one.  It is an online co-op employing many teachers that we pay to educate our children.  I expected a higher level of customer service and was disappointed.

None of the businesses offering this educational model are actually “schools”, as far as I am aware.  Open Tent Academy is also a husband-wife team that contracts teachers;  Big River Academy, Blue Tent Online, and the others I am familiar with are all owned/operated by one or two people and contract teachers. They aren’t “schools” in the normal sense.  I think this is the typical business model when it comes to online homeschool classes.

[KSera]

8 minutes ago, EKS said:

Are you referring to my post?

I can’t speak for Renai, but I wouldn’t think so. Yours was very mild compared to a couple others. I kept having the thought in response to several posts though, and yours was the one that I finally responded to. It’s not that any of them were terrible, I just felt they lacked understanding but this isn’t a bad kid or something a kid can just magically snap out of just because a parent gives them some lessons on resiliency. 

[Renai]

2 hours ago, EKS said:

Are you referring to my post?

I thought the "sixth grader who bursts into tears over nothing" was a little harsh. People have their reasons for the emotions they have, so what is "nothing" for one person, isn't always just "nothing." It's one of the things I learned with my daughter. I don't coddle her by any means, but I don't dismiss what she feels as nothing. I can help her see it may be smaller than what she originally thought, because once I acknowledge that emotion she can verbalize why she feels a certain way, and then we can try to come up with solutions. If I say what she feels over "nothing," I lose the opportunity to have her verbalize things to me, because she'll shut down. I don't understand, so why bother talking to me?

Speaking of which, she came in about 15 minutes ago in tears. I had just finished teaching a class, and she walked in crying. She's in an online art class, and I apparently purchased the wrong pastels (oil instead of soft) 🤦🏾‍♀️ and they weren't doing what the teacher was demonstrating. Sigh... When she told the teacher they weren't blending, the teacher told her that she had the wrong materials. She didn't want to go back into the class (class is on, video is off). I googled and we tried we different things to blend, but nothing worked. Once we tried things, I let her know since she knows the process, she can try again once I buy the right thing. She was able to calm herself as we tried different strategies, and even though those didn't work, she was ready to go back to class and continue following along with what she had. She's actually still in class now. She told me a minute ago, "mom, another student has the wrong pastels, too." So, she knows she's not alone, and she's not singled out.

I did say, at one point (maybe 2...), "don't cry. Let's see what's going on." So, yeah, I said that. 

[maize]

I have some kids who absolutely cry over...all kinds of little things.

It's definitely not a thing to blame the child or their parent for. Just to seek to understand (anxiety? autism? ...?) and then work on scaffolding emotional resilience skills.

[Jean in Newcastle]

17 minutes ago, maize said:

I have some kids who absolutely cry over...all kinds of little things.

It's definitely not a thing to blame the child or their parent for. Just to seek to understand (anxiety? autism? ...?) and then work on scaffolding emotional resilience skills.

I agree.  It's also something that teachers, especially remote teachers, can't always provide that one-on-one type scaffolding for.  This isn't a knock against the student but a simple observation about the logistics of managing a classroom of kids over the internet.  This is why blaming the teacher isn't necessarily fair and certainly isn't going to solve the problem.  (I have been on both ends - both as a teacher (though never online and not for TPS) but also as the parent of anxious kids.)  A business like TPS  has to be upfront about what they can manage and what they can't.  It's not mean for them to do so and is necessary to protect the teaching relationship that they have with all the other children in the class. 

[kiwik]

On 3/10/2022 at 4:54 AM, EKS said:

It seems to me that the major issue here is that you have a sixth grader who bursts into tears over nothing.  If it were my kid I'd be focusing my attention on helping him to develop resilience. 

I have one who would do that.  He has ASD.  While helping him to deal with the unexpected is a major thing he does have to be educated in the meantime.  He would not cope well with a teacher change and I would have to be present for the first few classes.

[Jean in Newcastle]

39 minutes ago, kiwik said:

I have one who would do that.  He has ASD.  While helping him to deal with the unexpected is a major thing he does have to be educated in the meantime.  He would not cope well with a teacher change and I would have to be present for the first few classes.

Which is exactly what TPS suggested 

[kiwik]

On 3/10/2022 at 4:54 AM, EKS said:

It seems to me that the major issue here is that you have a sixth grader who bursts into tears over nothing.  If it were my kid I'd be focusing my attention on helping him to develop resilience. 

I expect she is.  A lot of us have over sensitive kids and it is a long term project with days that just seem to go backwards.

[maize]

5 hours ago, kiwik said:

I expect she is.  A lot of us have over sensitive kids and it is a long term project with days that just seem to go backwards.

Possibly.

The OP however appeared profoundly offended at the suggestion that her child's emotional response might be beyond the ordinary--that her child might be "shy" and need extra support, such as a parent sitting by their side for a few classes. She appeared to want the teacher and school to take full responsibility for her child's reaction.

That doesn't suggest to me an attitude of understanding that one's child is exceptionally sensitive to setbacks and the need to actively work on building resiliency rather than immediately yanking the child from any situation that they find stressful and blaming the situation.

I do sometimes pull a child out of a situation that is overwhelming to them, but I do it with the understanding that my child's level of anxiety is higher than average, and usually after working with them for some length of time to try to help them push through the anxiety with support. 

It is difficult to get a clear picture from limited information, but it does not sound like the teacher in question acted harshly or abusively; there was a misunderstanding, the teacher said to the child "I think you are wrong" and the child had a meltdown and refused to return to class after the parent messaged with support to work out the misunderstanding.

Most of us with children who would melt down over such an interaction understand that the child's meltdown occurred because the child is exceptionally sensitive to any seemingly negative interaction. We have to understand that, if we are to work with the child to help them develop resilience. And yes you are absolutely right that it is a long term project.

[madteaparty]

I don’t think there is any school that lets you transfer on demand, because you “need” another class. This whole thing is just bizarre. 

[kiwik]

On 3/23/2022 at 12:56 AM, maize said:

Possibly.

The OP however appeared profoundly offended at the suggestion that her child's emotional response might be beyond the ordinary--that her child might be "shy" and need extra support, such as a parent sitting by their side for a few classes. She appeared to want the teacher and school to take full responsibility for her child's reaction.

That doesn't suggest to me an attitude of understanding that one's child is exceptionally sensitive to setbacks and the need to actively work on building resiliency rather than immediately yanking the child from any situation that they find stressful and blaming the situation.

I do sometimes pull a child out of a situation that is overwhelming to them, but I do it with the understanding that my child's level of anxiety is higher than average, and usually after working with them for some length of time to try to help them push through the anxiety with support. 

It is difficult to get a clear picture from limited information, but it does not sound like the teacher in question acted harshly or abusively; there was a misunderstanding, the teacher said to the child "I think you are wrong" and the child had a meltdown and refused to return to class after the parent messaged with support to work out the misunderstanding.

Most of us with children who would melt down over such an interaction understand that the child's meltdown occurred because the child is exceptionally sensitive to any seemingly negative interaction. We have to understand that, if we are to work with the child to help them develop resilience. And yes you are absolutely right that it is a long term project.

I think she mishandled the whole thing and seems to out for revenge.  My comment was only in response to the comment that implied the child was at at fault for getting upset and should harden up.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It looks like undeservedly trashing a company’s reputation really does work. 

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, gabriellewilson36cb said:

Thank you so much for that feedback. I was considering this school, but now I understand that we'll better stay away from it.

Strange first post. Howdy, troll. 😉

[TheAttachedMama]

My friend (fellow WTM member) and I had SUCH a terrible experience at TPS that I joke and tell people I have "TPPSTD". The Potter's School Post Tramatic Stress Syndrome.  We signed up for a French class.  The class was SO unorganized I can't even tell you.   The teacher's daughter was having a baby, and you could tell that she was very preoccupied with her personal life.   To make matters worse, the school also decided to change to this online textbook and online platform this same year---however, the teacher was evidently too busy to test anything (or even look closely!) at any of the assignments or tools she was planning to use.   

TPS uses an online platform to give assignments, but the TPS website never matched the assignments listed on the new online French platform for the week. The TPS website would list things that were due that we couldn't find anywhere on the online textbook website.  (The teacher could have included a link, but she chose not to do that.).   So every week we had to email the teacher and clarify what exactly she wanted to be done.  That is not too bad, we were willing to send a weekly email to clarify.... but things got worse and worse.

For example, at one point and online workbook was assigned. We spent about 8+ hours trying to figure out how to open this workbook.  We emailed the teacher and were told, "Oh, I guess it doesn't work.  Skip that."    (Strangely, none of the other students in the class had contacted her yet even though it was due in 2 days.  ???).  The teacher also made the mistake of trying to assign every single exercise and assignment in the entire chapter each week--- Not realizing that most modern e-textbooks include more work than any student could possibly complete in one week.  I believe the intent is that teachers choose which assignments they think their students complete.  But the TPS teacher evidently hadn't looked closely at what she had assigned.  (My friend, out of frustration with the ridiculousness of the class, counted it up and there were 56+ hours of work assigned for one week of high school French!).  Because of all of this, students would have to contact her each week and clarify what exactly she was expecting them to do and also let her know what things were not working well, etc.    Picture long emails with a ton of screenshots.  

So the teacher would make random changes to the assignments throughout the week.   Assignments were given out on Tuesday and due the following week.  So many many times my daughter might have spent several hours working through the assignment list only to log in Thursday and realize that all of the assignments she had done were now deleted and different things had been added in their place.  

My friend was smart.   She jumped ship after only a few weeks.  When she contacted the school, the school told her that maybe her child was just incapable of succeeding in an online class.  

We didn't jump ship.  We decided to cut the teacher some slack, and we stayed on hoping that the kinks would be worked out soon and things would get better.   Bu finally, we couldn't take it anymore!   Instead of talking to just the teacher, I brought my concerns to TPS Support.   We emailed the school and we were basically told that perhaps my daughter was incapable of learning a foreign language because she was too young.  (She was 13 btw).  We were also told too that she wasn't mature enough for an online class.  (The same thing my friend was told!) 

I pointed out that my daughter had taken three previous years of Latin with Memoria Press online academy and had earned straight As.  She was also a gold medalist in the NLE.  And I think that proves, in some small way, that she was indeed capable of learning a foreign language.  (In hind sight, I probably shouldn't have gone there.)

  I also pointed out that my daughter had taken classes with WTMA, Integritas Academy, IEW, Derek Owens and more...and had earned straight As up until his point.   She was no stranger to online classes.  But instead of apologizing or taking any sort of responsibility, we were told that our child was immature and not capable of learning French at this point.

Edited June 30, 2022 by TheAttachedMama

[cintinative]

Ugh that is awful @TheAttachedMama.  We have only taken English but have had all good experiences.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

The review by @TheAttachedMamais an example of a thoughtful review.  It might not match the experience of everyone who's taken classes from TPS but she didn't expect TPS to do the part of a parent.  She communicated and tried to work it out with the teacher and within the framework of an online class.  She had proper expectations from an outsourced language class and it really should have been a good fit for her daughter.  I am sorry that this was your experience and TPS didn't handle it well at all.  I do think that thoughtful reviews - both good and bad - are a valuable thing to have when looking at any provider of outsourced classes. 

[sabrinatowa]

Hello everybody. I have a question, if you don't mind. It's about homeschooling. What do you think about this, is it worth it ? Is it better than going to a regular school ?

[HomeAgain]

9 minutes ago, sabrinatowa said:

Hello everybody. I have a question, if you don't mind. It's about homeschooling. What do you think about this, is it worth it ? Is it better than going to a regular school ?

I don't believe there can be a blanket "this is better than that".  Every situation is unique.  For my own kids, sometimes public school was better and sometimes home was better, but we were able to make that year by year assessment and decide what the needs and offerings were.