Changing perspective on COVID....maybe a good time to get it

[mathnerd]

Leaving aside the burden of this disease on the healthcare sector and the overflowing hospitals: there is no guarantee that intentionally getting infected by the Omicron variant (or not exerting enough care to avoid disease) will prevent us from getting the next variant. So, I don't see any benefit in letting my guard down now after being cautious since the advent of this virus. If you account for unknown damage to internal organs that this virus may cause (anecdotal evidence is there but it has not been studied scientifically) and long Covid there is enough reason to stay cautious.

My friend has had long covid since August and he is out of breath walking from his bedroom to the kitchen and pants all day long. He is a former athlete and a runner, in his 40's and had a mild case of Covid last summer. I feel sorry every time I see him because he is a shadow of his former self, almost disabled. I don't want that to happen to anyone, including myself.

[Ausmumof3]

11 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re COVID goal vs Lyme goal

Having lived in the heart of Lyme country for 20+ years... that is helpful.  There are people in my town who (before COVID) don't let their kids play outside for fear of getting Lyme.  Lyme surely sucks.  I've had it, my son had it, I know a handful of people who have suffered long term effects. It's a serious disease. 

We spray the yard. We tick check.  We pull the suckers out. During the worst of the season (March-April), I wear Wellingtons in the garden with my pants tucked in tight and I still find them. 

Nonetheless: I'm still going to hike. Why live here, if you're too anxious to enjoy the outdoors? Live in a city, that has museums and theater.

I just have to figure out what the long run COVID equivalents to yard-spraying and tick-checking are.

I think we need a more community level response to sort out ventilation and air flow in buildings.  I’ve become increasingly convinced that this is the true solution and will possibly help with other transmissible diseases as well.  Disease and poor living conditions are linked and we are just now realising that poor air is a poor living condition again after 100 years of thinking that’s superstition.

[Farrar]

10 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re COVID goal vs Lyme goal

Having lived in the heart of Lyme country for 20+ years... that is helpful.  There are people in my town who (before COVID) don't let their kids play outside for fear of getting Lyme.  Lyme surely sucks.  I've had it, my son had it, I know a handful of people who have suffered long term effects. It's a serious disease. 

We spray the yard. We tick check.  We pull the suckers out. During the worst of the season (March-April), I wear Wellingtons in the garden with my pants tucked in tight and I still find them. 

Nonetheless: I'm still going to hike. Why live here, if you're too anxious to enjoy the outdoors? Live in a city, that has museums and theater.

I just have to figure out what the long run COVID equivalents to yard-spraying and tick-checking are.

Yeah, it's endemic here too and there are certain areas where it's just unavoidable. One of my kids had a particularly classic bad case of Lyme. I have lots of friends who have chronic Lyme horror stories that lasted for years. It's the disease I've had to navigate risk around the most often personally before this so while the specific risk factors mean I can totally understand making a different call, it's been a helpful metaphor for me personally.

[Cordelia]

My (very young) children caught covid from an extended family member, and I fully expected to catch it from them. Somehow I didn't. I had been recently boosted before they got sick. 

It does make me wonder how likely I am to get it somewhere else, if I managed to not get it from holding and caring for my three little kids for hours upon hours every day. 

[cabercro]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think we need a more community level response to sort out ventilation and air flow in buildings.  I’ve become increasingly convinced that this is the true solution and will possibly help with other transmissible diseases as well.  Disease and poor living conditions are linked and we are just now realising that poor air is a poor living condition again after 100 years of thinking that’s superstition.

I agree. I watched an episode of a live stream last week that had some great conversation around this. An atmospheric chemistry professor made a comment that stuck with me - we would never accept dirty drinking water, but don't think twice about breathing dirty air. 

 

Here's the link in case anyone's interested. It's long, but the whole conversation is facinating. There seem to be a lot of musical theater people in this thread - the main conversation is between three scientists and two Broadway leads, getting deep into the nuance of the specific risks and needed precautions in a live theater environment. I've got no connection to that world - I just like the show because they often have reunions of old Broadway casts and TV shows. But hearing people have these detailed conversations is super interesting.

[popmom]

3 hours ago, mathnerd said:

Leaving aside the burden of this disease on the healthcare sector and the overflowing hospitals: there is no guarantee that intentionally getting infected by the Omicron variant (or not exerting enough care to avoid disease) will prevent us from getting the next variant. So, I don't see any benefit in letting my guard down now after being cautious since the advent of this virus. If you account for unknown damage to internal organs that this virus may cause (anecdotal evidence is there but it has not been studied scientifically) and long Covid there is enough reason to stay cautious.

My friend has had long covid since August and he is out of breath walking from his bedroom to the kitchen and pants all day long. He is a former athlete and a runner, in his 40's and had a mild case of Covid last summer. I feel sorry every time I see him because he is a shadow of his former self, almost disabled. I don't want that to happen to anyone, including myself.

Of course there's no guarantee...but I'm reading plenty of articles (that cite studies) and studies that suggest that natural immunity does provide a degree of protection even against new variants. It is one of the reasons why Omicron has been so mild in South Africa. 

It is pretty well confirmed that those who have natural immunity and then got vaccinated have significantly more protection than someone who was never infected and vaccinated--at least against Delta. But nobody wants to talk about these things because obviously--we don't want to discourage vaccination. Or have people hosting COVID parties. 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by popmom

[Catwoman]

9 minutes ago, popmom said:

Of course there's no guarantee...but I'm reading plenty of articles (that cite studies) and studies that suggest that natural immunity does provide a degree of protection even against new variants. It is one of the reasons why Omicron has been so mild in South Africa. 

It is pretty well confirmed that those who have natural immunity and then got vaccinated have significantly more protection than someone who was never infected and vaccinated--at least against Delta. But nobody wants to talk about this because obviously--we don't want to discourage vaccination. 

 

It’s so hard to know what to believe these days. 😞 

[popmom]

22 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

It’s so hard to know what to believe these days. 😞 

Well, I hope that The Lancet and WHO aren't completely fabricating data.

ETAdd an interesting article about "hybrid immunity" https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/09/07/1033677208/new-studies-find-evidence-of-superhuman-immunity-to-covid-19-in-some-individuals

Edited December 30, 2021 by popmom

[Dianthus]

2 hours ago, Cordelia said:

My (very young) children caught covid from an extended family member, and I fully expected to catch it from them. Somehow I didn't. I had been recently boosted before they got sick. 

It does make me wonder how likely I am to get it somewhere else, if I managed to not get it from holding and caring for my three little kids for hours upon hours every day. 

How did your kids do with it? 

[Syllieann]

We are pretty much resigned to getting it.  The must-dos put us at high enough risk that I'm not willing to cut out the want-to-dos.  Everyone in my home is as vaccinated as possible and we mask in indoor spaces aside from restaurants.  My kids have missed too much of their childhood to this already.  They are all healthy and vaccinated.  Wrt every infection meaning more chance of a new variant, yeah that's true, but we're just spitting in the ocean.  Billions of people don't care about that, and even if we could get them to care, we've got multiple animals carrying it.  We can't vaccinate all the deer, mink, mice, etc.  We just can't. I'm so disappointed in society.  It didn't have to be this way.  I'm focused on my kids' social and emotional health at this point.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Syllieann

[Syllieann]

Regarding natural immunity vs vaccine, there is some evidence that the mucosal defenses are expressed differently.  I would need to learn more about the immune system to thoroughly understand the mechanism, but the gist of the few papers I've read seems to be that infections concentrate defenders in the mucous membranes while vaccinations spread it more evenly throughout the body.  That is one of the reasons the nasal vaccine was getting backing.  I'm not saying I would TRY to get it, but I can see the reasoning behind a low dose frequent exposure to sub-infectious dosage while your antibodies are high.  You'd effectively be getting booster constantly.  Of course, getting a sub-infectious dose is a game of Russian Roulette.

[easypeasy]

9 hours ago, Ottakee said:

I am fairly covid cautious....double vaxed and boostered, entire family.  Wear a mask in indoor settings, etc.   Ds and I are part of a National Institute of Health Covid study where we rapid test twice a week for 3 months (on week 2 now).

Anyway, I live in West Michigan where positivity rates were 27%+ with Delta and now who knows with Omicron as many people are not testing or testing one family member and not others or just doing at home which isn't reported.  

I am wondering if it is just inevitable that I will get COVID and that maybe the omicron version closer to my booster might just be the best option.  Kinda like the chicken pox parties of my youth.

I am not out purposely seeking it.  My biggest fear would be spreading it to someone unvaccinated and/or high risk.  I don't want to do that.

If I am going to get it, honestly the next 8 weeks would be best due to lower commitments, etc.

Anyone else pondering this?

 

I get it. Getting it now would allow you to feel some control over the situation without it looming "out there" for months.

We're just getting over what I assume is Omicron (since we had Delta earlier in the fall). I'm honestly relieved. Omicron seemed so inevitable and now we've had it - we should be able to ride out the rest of this phase of Covid without wondering "when" or "if," or having it arrive at a really inopportune time.

We have been reasonably careful - wearing masks when in places with people outside of our normal bubble. DD works at a place where masks aren't realistic - but she works generally with the same group of people. She caught Omicron and brought it home to us.

And now, when the kids all go back to school and when DD goes back to work, they'll have more immunity on their sides.

They do plan to get boostered, but are talking with their doctors about the best time to schedule that now. Seems best to wait a while since they should have some natural immunity and the vaccine doesn't seem to have a really long lifespan.

Delta was much worse than Omicron for our household.

[Murphy101]

10 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

Who will take care of the kids at home if you get flu-level sick?

I guess whoever takes care of kids when people get flu-level sick any other year?

A few years ago we had the worst flu ever run through our house. We were all miserable and we all just had to suck up the fluids and the usual cold med remedies and albuterol home treatments as best we could and deal.  That’s kind of just life for most parents. 
🤷‍♀️

10 hours ago, Ottakee said:

That is a good point.  I just wonder if it is at all reasonable to expect that we can avoid getting covid while still working outside the home, etc.

I don’t think it is realistic to expect we can avoid it while people are going about school and work mostly back to normal except maybe wearing a mask. I think a mask can be helpful in limited situations where people aren’t crowded or with each other for long periods. I think the effectiveness goes way down with those contributing factors.

We are discussing it here. I would never purposely get myself or anyone sick. (I thought chicken pox parties were awful ideas.) But we are at a point where we feel this is the limit of the wide spread personal and social effort. Like you, we are vaxed and happy to mask and frankly I never liked crowds and shopping more than I needed to so that’s not coming back in our house anyways. We couldn’t have quarantined more than we did for over a year and that’s not sustainable forever. And it is unreasonable with an airborne virus that spreads and mutates like this one. Covid is here to stay and will likely need regular vaccinating similar to annual or bi-annual fly shots.

I think the next phase should be pointed to dealing with the medical shortages and other issues of social policy and supply chains to avoid things like this  being so difficult to battle and treat on a national crisis scale. Because if it isn’t covid, it’s just a matter of time until it’s something else.

We are no longer staying home for every sniffle and we are no longer testing every sniffle either. We have no plans to start doing so unless Dh gets sick bc he will be required to have a negative covid test to return to work if he gets sick enough to stay home. And yeah, I know “sick enough” should not be a thing but for most of the world, and certainly most of America, there are not social policies in place to change that yet. I’m happy to vote for policies that would change it. In the mean time, people need income via jobs to buy over priced insulin and rents/mortgages.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Murphy101

[katilac]

11 hours ago, Xahm said:

I won't show up in any stats because we just did home tests and there doesn't seem to be anywhere to report to. 

You are supposed to notify your primary doctor. 

[Cordelia]

7 hours ago, Spirea said:

How did your kids do with it? 

DS5 and DS3 ran fevers for two days and were tired. DS3 threw up once. DD 19 months has been cranky for two days and has had a slight runny nose, but no fever. The boys seem to be finished with their symptoms. We'll see how DD does today. 

[Ottakee]

Thanks for all of the thoughts....and being respectful and kind to those that might see things a bit differently.

We all have different options and situations.... some can work from home, some can't.  Some have added health risks, others don't, etc.

[Happy2BaMom]

We're boostered and still cautious but also recognize that the infectiousness of Omicron brings a certain inevitability to it.

What I find more interesting is how few people (meaning average everyday public, outside of the healthcare scene) are really aware (or seem to care) how completely strung out and effed up the healthcare system is now (at least in US), and how it's likely to stay that way for a long time, and people don't take that into account when calculating their exposure risk (like the doctors/nurses keep asking us to). The Nat'l Guard is deployed to most of my state's hospitals and my relative who works in a very large hospital one state over says it's being openly talked about that the hospital may be in full-out collapse in another few weeks (due to being overrun + a critical lack of staffing), esp if a larger wave hits.

So I really hope Omicron results in no larger hospitalization waves and I am trying to limit our risk so that we don't need hospital care (for anything) until we're sure Omicron isn't making that scene worse.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Happy2BaMom

[Xahm]

5 hours ago, katilac said:

You are supposed to notify your primary doctor. 

I've been meaning to find a good family Dr for me and my husband but haven't yet. Most people I know who are my age see their obgyn (if female) as they're only Dr, or no one of they are male. Dh gets annual checkups from random army Dr once a year.

[BusyMom5]

16 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Not want to exactly.  But I believe my daughter will get it. She is too social for Omicron. So I would almost rather her get it while she is still at home rather than 14 hours away. I mean, I would rather her not get it at all, but with Omicron, I just don't see how she can avoid it being a musical theater college student. 

This is what I feel like, too.  College is a petri dish full of germs.  My DD will get it, masks or no masks.  She eats in the cafeteria,  thousands of kids!  She and her roommates are all vaxed, but at this point I'm not sure that conveys much immunity.   

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, Happy2BaMom said:

We're boostered and still cautious but also recognize that the infectiousness of Omicron brings a certain inevitability to it.

What I find more interesting is how few people (meaning average everyday public, outside of the healthcare scene) are really aware (or seem to care) how completely strung out and effed up the healthcare system is now (at least in US), and how it's likely to stay that way for a long time, and people don't take that into account when calculating their exposure risk (like the doctors/nurses keep asking us to). The Nat'l Guard is deployed to most of my state's hospitals and my relative who works in a very large hospital one state over says it's being openly talked about that the hospital may be in full-out collapse in another few weeks (due to being overrun + a critical lack of staffing), esp if a larger wave hits.

So I really hope Omicron results in no larger hospitalization waves and I am trying to limit our risk so that we don't need hospital care (for anything) until we're sure Omicron isn't making that scene worse.

I am absolutely taking hospital numbers into account as that has been my biggest focus from the start. But also I can’t only do so much if I am the proverbial only one who cares about that. My husband could easily do his job from home but his entire company (that he JUST got hired at after his longest unemployment in 30 years) is not wfh friendly at all.  As in, he has to test positive to work from home. Schools are completely open. None of these places even have mask policies here beyond shrugging and saying guess you can wear it if you are one of those paranoid people.  But they do have policies for missing days that negatively affect families, many of which are already financially struggling after the last 2 years.

[happi duck]

15 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think we need a more community level response to sort out ventilation and air flow in buildings.  I’ve become increasingly convinced that this is the true solution and will possibly help with other transmissible diseases as well.  Disease and poor living conditions are linked and we are just now realising that poor air is a poor living condition again after 100 years of thinking that’s superstition.

I genuinely thought that by now public places would have easy to find information about the air quality and knowing about air exchange etc would become common knowledge.  In the same way places are inspected and graded for other things air flow etc would be checked and reported.  It seems to me they could also determine safer capacities based on air flow etc.

[SKL]

I would like to know sooner rather than later whether catching Omicron will prove helpful against later catching other variants.  If so, it seems like a good idea to get it now, if one is relatively low risk and can stay away from others.

From everything I'm hearing, we're gonna catch this regardless, and the best we can do is fortify ourselves for a hopefully mild case.  Of course it is possible that "we're all gonna catch this" is fake news.  Guess we'll see.

[Shoeless]

Getting it now isn't a great idea and doesn't protect you from further infections. The inlaws had Delta months ago. Now they all have Omicron. No one is vaxxed; so much for natural "immunity". 

When the inlaws went for testing/to bring the kids to the doctor, there was a line of ambulances 10 deep, waiting to unload at the hospital. 

If you get this now, you can't guarantee you won't need hospitalization or significant medical care. You'll essentially be on your own. Good luck. 

[Melissa Louise]

5 hours ago, happi duck said:

I genuinely thought that by now public places would have easy to find information about the air quality and knowing about air exchange etc would become common knowledge.  In the same way places are inspected and graded for other things air flow etc would be checked and reported.  It seems to me they could also determine safer capacities based on air flow etc.

South Korea and Japan seem to be doing this. I wish we would. 

[Melissa Louise]

11 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Getting it now isn't a great idea and doesn't protect you from further infections. The inlaws had Delta months ago. Now they all have Omicron. No one is vaxxed; so much for natural "immunity". 

When the inlaws went for testing/to bring the kids to the doctor, there was a line of ambulances 10 deep, waiting to unload at the hospital. 

If you get this now, you can't guarantee you won't need hospitalization or significant medical care. You'll essentially be on your own. Good luck. 

This is how it is here. Government messaging telling us to manage Covid at home if vaccinated - no hospital in the home program in my state if under 65.

I'm hopeful my booster will help, and I'm not waking up in fright at Covid every day, but I aim to balance fatalism with caution. I do worry about the capacity of hospitals. Not just for Covid care, but for other care. I am hearing horror stories re ambulance wait times. 

It's no problem for me to reduce my risk right now. Cancelled NYE plans etc. I think there is a good chance that ds will get Omicron at work and bring it home, so the fewer people I see ATM the better. Even slowing the chain of transmission is better for hospitals.

 

[Happy2BaMom]

23 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

I am absolutely taking hospital numbers into account as that has been my biggest focus from the start. But also I can’t only do so much if I am the proverbial only one who cares about that. My husband could easily do his job from home but his entire company (that he JUST got hired at after his longest unemployment in 30 years) is not wfh friendly at all.  As in, he has to test positive to work from home. Schools are completely open. None of these places even have mask policies here beyond shrugging and saying guess you can wear it if you are one of those paranoid people.  But they do have policies for missing days that negatively affect families, many of which are already financially struggling after the last 2 years.

I hear you. Just so you know. my post was not directed to you (or anyone in particular).