Omicron anecdata?

[Corraleno]

38 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I had Pfizer for the first two, with a Moderna chaser.  Doing a second Moderna booster.

Same here. I had Pfizer for the first two, with no problem at all, and then a Moderna booster that kicked my butt. But the higher dose seems to wane more slowly, so I'll go with Moderna again and just plan not to do much for a couple of days afterward.

[catz]

Just another antecdote.  I had my flu shot like 6+ weeks before my booster.  I had my 3rd Pfizer.  My first 2 doses were minimal side affects but that 3rd one kicked my butt for about 36 hours.  It may also be just your immune system moved to high gear on that dose when you had more side affects.  

My husband and I can get another booster.  But I'm kind of debating waiting a little and just watching waste water data.  We both just hit 4 months, and I would hate to have peak coverage while our positivity is so low.  We are below 3% and wastewater is lining up with other data.  BA2 is like at 75% as of yesterday.  We'll see what next week brings.  

[Catwoman]

35 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Same here. I had Pfizer for the first two, with no problem at all, and then a Moderna booster that kicked my butt. But the higher dose seems to wane more slowly, so I'll go with Moderna again and just plan not to do much for a couple of days afterward.

Did you get your Moderna booster in the very beginning, when it was still just a third dose of the full-strength vaccine, or did you get it later when it was the half-strength version? I’m hoping you got the full strength last time, so the next one might be easier on you!

[Matryoshka]

41 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Same here. I had Pfizer for the first two, with no problem at all, and then a Moderna booster that kicked my butt. But the higher dose seems to wane more slowly, so I'll go with Moderna again and just plan not to do much for a couple of days afterward.

Yeah, I decided to wait to get it till Friday, so that I have the weekend to recover, just in case...

[Matryoshka]

30 minutes ago, catz said:

My husband and I can get another booster.  But I'm kind of debating waiting a little and just watching waste water data.  We both just hit 4 months, and I would hate to have peak coverage while our positivity is so low.  We are below 3% and wastewater is lining up with other data.  BA2 is like at 75% as of yesterday.  We'll see what next week brings.  

Yeah, I was going to wait a bit longer for those reasons, but that article upthread got me moving a bit, since I'm in the Northeast and it looks like we might be in for a ride again sooner rather than later...

Edited April 2, 2022 by Matryoshka

[Laura Corin]

3 hours ago, thewellerman said:

My family just recovered from covid within the last few weeks, so I assume it was omicron.  We should have immunity through this new wave, right? 

Unfortunately I think no one knows if you will be immune to the submarine. 

[wathe]

3 hours ago, thewellerman said:

My family just recovered from covid within the last few weeks, so I assume it was omicron.  We should have immunity through this new wave, right? 

This Nature article quotes studies that support immunity - but it's from February.

But, anectodally, we are seeing an awful lot of what appear to be re-infections in clinic.  So I wouldn't count on it.

[cintinative]

Ohio is now reporting numbers weekly and I feel like I have a harder time making sense of the trends because of that.  It appears that our case numbers are lower than the prior two weeks' totals but our deaths and hospitalizations are up slightly. I guess it could be a lot of nonreported cases? Or somehow the case numbers aren't predicting the other two?  How do I evaluate when things are moving in the wrong direction? Hospitalizations? @kbutton

Edited April 2, 2022 by cintinative

[Lisa]

Dh and I plan on getting our second booster this month.

 

[mommyoffive]

5 hours ago, wathe said:

This Nature article quotes studies that support immunity - but it's from February.

But, anectodally, we are seeing an awful lot of what appear to be re-infections in clinic.  So I wouldn't count on it.

Are the re-infections people who had it recently the first time?  Or did they have it a year or more ago?  Just wondering.

[mommyoffive]

At Home Covid Tests Education (cvs.com)

Free home covid tests through insurance without having to do reimbursement if your plan is part of this

[Mom_to3]

Just some disconcerting news about reinfections (from a lab of 150 people that PCR tests daily and uses N95 type masks). 6% positivity among their employees in LA right now, with 80% of cases that already had BA1 (so wouldn't get counted as less than 90 days from prior infection). Insanse.

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Mom_to3

[Mom_to3]

7 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

I had Pfizer for the first two, with a Moderna chaser.  Doing a second Moderna booster.

I am wondering what's optimal here. Moderna appeared best after the primary series, when it had a much higher dose. However, the Moderna booster is half the original (they supposedly tried to lower side effects and double supply), Pfizer booster unchanged. The limited evidence I have seen appears to suggest that a second Pfizer booster might be doing better with Omicron" "Vaccine efficacy against infection was 30% (95%CI:-9% to 55%) and 11% (95%CI:-43% to +43%) for BNT162b2 and mRNA1273, respectively.:" in this paper from Israel https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.02.15.22270948v1

All had received only Pfizer before.

Anyone know more about this? 

[Corraleno]

6 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Did you get your Moderna booster in the very beginning, when it was still just a third dose of the full-strength vaccine, or did you get it later when it was the half-strength version? I’m hoping you got the full strength last time, so the next one might be easier on you!

No, I got the 50 mcg Moderna booster, after two 30 mcg Pfizer shots. I don't know if the much stronger reaction was because my immune system was already primed, or if it was just the fact that it was a higher dose, or if there's something else in the Moderna formula that causes a bigger reaction. 

I had my 1st booster in early November, so I'm right at the 5 month mark. I'm scheduled to get the 2nd one on Tuesday, and then I will be at around the 5-6 month mark in September / early October, in time to get whatever the next vaccine variation/booster is.

.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Corraleno

[Catwoman]

Just now, Corraleno said:

No, I got the 50 mcg Moderna booster, after two 30 mcg Pfizer shots. I don't know if the much stronger reaction was because my immune system was already primed, or if it was just the fact that it was a higher dose, or if there's something else in the Moderna formula that causes a bigger reaction. 

I had my 1st booster in early November, so I'm right at the 6 month mark. I'm scheduled to get the 2nd one on Tuesday, and then I will be at around the 6 month mark again in early October, in time to get whatever the next vaccine variation/booster is.

.

I hope you don’t get much of a reaction this time! One thing that I think helped me a lot was that I was drinking a ton of water before the shot and all day afterward. 

Pro tip: You might not want to drink as much water as I did right before bedtime, unless you have a real fondness for getting up three times during the night to use the restroom. 😉 

[mommyoffive]

Everyone that is getting a second booster check back in when you do get it.  I am so wanting to hear how it goes for people.

[Corraleno]

17 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

I am wondering what's optimal here. Moderna appeared best after the primary series, when it had a much higher dose. However, the Moderna booster is half the original (they supposedly tried to lower side effects and double supply), Pfizer booster unchanged. The limited evidence I have seen appears to suggest that a second Pfizer booster might be doing better with Omicron" "Vaccine efficacy against infection was 30% (95%CI:-9% to 55%) and 11% (95%CI:-43% to +43%) for BNT162b2 and mRNA1273, respectively.:" in this paper from Israel https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.02.15.22270948v1

All had received only Pfizer before.

Anyone know more about this? 

That was a weird little study. It was not randomized — people volunteered and the first group (n-154) were given Pfizer and then the 2nd group who signed up later (n-120) got Moderna. They had different control groups, which were just age-matched. The actual percentages of people who had symptomatic illnesses were identical in each group: 14%. But one of the measures of efficacy was an in vitro test of neutralizing antibodies, and they used a subset of only 25 people from each group, so it's possible that if they had chosen 25 different people from each group, the results could have been totally different. So I don't put that much stock in it. The UK BOOST trials showed a clear benefit for the Moderna booster over Pfizer, so I'm just going with that.

[Corraleno]

6 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I hope you don’t get much of a reaction this time! One thing that I think helped me a lot was that I was drinking a ton of water before the shot and all day afterward. 

Pro tip: You might not want to drink as much water as I did right before bedtime, unless you have a real fondness for getting up three times during the night to use the restroom. 😉 

Yes on the water! I made sure to be super hydrated for the first two, and drank a lot the day before the booster, but then slacked off afterwards, and that probably did have something to do with the stronger reaction. Thanks for the reminder!

[Spy Car]

This morning I got my forth full dose of Moderna. Arm is rather tender.

Last dose (IMS) was mid-August. 

Looks like another wave is coming and masking is inextricably going out the window.

In the little pharmacy where I got my shot today, there were 8 people (excluding myself). 3 employees and 5 patrons (all of whom were older).

The only person wearing a mask (other than me) was the pharmacist, and his was under his nose.

And these were people who cared enough to get booster shots. 

I think the world has gone mad. 

Bill

[Mom_to3]

21 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

That was a weird little study. It was not randomized — people volunteered and the first group (n-154) were given Pfizer and then the 2nd group who signed up later (n-120) got Moderna. They had different control groups, which were just age-matched. The actual percentages of people who had symptomatic illnesses were identical in each group: 14%. But one of the measures of efficacy was an in vitro test of neutralizing antibodies, and they used a subset of only 25 people from each group, so it's possible that if they had chosen 25 different people from each group, the results could have been totally different. So I don't put that much stock in it. The UK BOOST trials showed a clear benefit for the Moderna booster over Pfizer, so I'm just going with that.

Reading that now, and the UK BOOST trial used a 100 Moderna booster, not the half dose we use 😞

I could also swear there was a study that a Pfizer booster after Moderna primary series was better than a Moderna booster (which suggests mix and match). Would have to find this again. I actually had pretty much no symptoms after Moderna 2 and (full shot "booster") 3 - so wouldn't mind sticking with Moderna, but wondering if it's better to switch.

Edited to add: Found the support for mix and match I was remembering with a quick google search (can always count on Feigl-Ding lol):

 https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1451418802416197633/photo/1

Edited April 3, 2022 by Mom_to3

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, cintinative said:

Ohio is now reporting numbers weekly and I feel like I have a harder time making sense of the trends because of that.  It appears that our case numbers are lower than the prior two weeks' totals but our deaths and hospitalizations are up slightly. I guess it could be a lot of nonreported cases? Or somehow the case numbers aren't predicting the other two?  How do I evaluate when things are moving in the wrong direction? Hospitalizations? @kbutton

I wonder if it's lower testing rates or people doing at home tests that are going unreported. DH says there are very, very few covid cases coming through his ER, but it seems like the waves hit the NE and central part of the state first. What you are describing definitely shows up in the 21 day average, which I think is the only way I can look at the new numbers meaningfully now that they are weekly.

[Mom_to3]

16 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

This morning I got my forth full dose of Moderna. Arm is rather tender.

Last dose (IMS) was mid-August. 

Looks like another wave is coming and masking is inextricably going out the window.

In the little pharmacy where I got my shot today, there were 8 people (excluding myself). 3 employees and 5 patrons (all of whom were older).

The only person wearing a mask (other than me) was the pharmacist, and his was under his nose.

And these were people who cared enough to get booster shots. 

I think the world has gone mad. 

Bill

Let us know how it goes!

Do you just list a random name/birthdate with no insurance to get a 4th full dose Moderna?

And I agree, insane (and I thought masks are still needed in medical institutions - which pharmacies should be!).

[kristin0713]

YLE did a recent post on 4th doses and discussed "hybrid immunity." I was relieved to see the info.  

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/fourth-dose-q-and-a?s=r 

 

 

[Corraleno]

 

38 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

Reading that now, and the UK BOOST trial used a 100 Moderna booster, not the half dose we use 😞

I could also swear there was a study that a Pfizer booster after Moderna primary series was better than a Moderna booster (which suggests mix and match). Would have to find this again. I actually had pretty much no symptoms after Moderna 2 and (full shot "booster") 3 - so wouldn't mind sticking with Moderna, but wondering if it's better to switch.

Edited to add: Found the support for mix and match I was remembering with a quick google search (can always count on Feigl-Ding lol):

 https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1451418802416197633/photo/1

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scitranslmed.abm2311

This study noted that there were slight differences in the types of immune response triggered by the 2 mRNA vaccines, suggesting that mixing might provide some benefit (although it says that the benefit to mixing mRNA doses is much smaller than following J&J with mRNA). But if you've already had 3 Moderna shots, it would make sense to get Pfizer for the 4th one, to gain whatever benefit might be available from mixing doses.

I've already had 2 Pfizer and 1 Moderna, so I've already gotten whatever benefit there may be, so I'm just going with the larger dose for my 4th shot. I'm hoping there'll be even more options (like Novavax) in the fall when it's time for the next one.

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, Mom_to3 said:

Let us know how it goes!

Do you just list a random name/birthdate with no insurance to get a 4th full dose Moderna?

And I agree, insane (and I thought masks are still needed in medical institutions - which pharmacies should be!).

No. Both times I got full additional doses I honestly informed the pharmacist of a diagnosed medical condition, which qualified under "immunocompromised."

Of the 4 of us who got shots in rapid succession, all were full doses.

Bill

 

 

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, Spy Car said:

No. Both times I got full additional doses I honestly informed the pharmacist of a diagnosed medical condition, which qualified under "immunocompromised."

Of the 4 of us who got shots in rapid succession, all were full doses.

Bill

 

 

Bill, did you have to show any kind of doctor’s note, or did they just take you at your word that you were immunocompromised?

[Spy Car]

8 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Bill, did you have to show any kind of doctor’s note, or did they just take you at your word that you were immunocompromised?

I believe that it is national policy not to ask for documentation. One must self-attest to being immunocompromised and both times I've had a additional full dose (meaning shots #3 and the most recent #4) I've honestly disclosed my diagnosis.

Back in August (shot #3) it took a visit to 2 pharmacies, as at the first the pharmacist questioned whether my diagnosis qualified for a third shot. They were going by a very narrow list.

The second said, roll up your sleeve (and said had I not taken the shot that it would have been discarded due to the number of no-shows).

Yesterday, I'd have gotten a half-dose but after a discussion with this pharmacist, I got a full dose.

Bill

 

 

 

[Drama Llama]

Are most people switching up for the fourth shot?  Everyone who asks my opinion got 3 doses of the same (3 Pfizer or 3 Moderna) and I am wondering if everyone should switch to the opposite.

[Pawz4me]

6 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Are most people switching up for the fourth shot?  Everyone who asks my opinion got 3 doses of the same (3 Pfizer or 3 Moderna) and I am wondering if everyone should switch to the opposite.

I’ve had four Pfizers so far. I don’t think it’s wrong to mix them, but I’m not convinced there’s a big benefit either. 

[Ali in OR]

I'm going to try to wait until fall (back-to-school time for me) for my 4th shot. My booster was Oct. 4 and I'm in the age bracket to qualify, but like a previous poster, I don't want to "waste" peak immunity if our numbers stay low. I plan to wear my N95 for the rest of the school year, I keep the windows open, and I have about half of my students masking (we were masks required until March 12 so they're used to it). If I make it through the end of the school year, I get a summer with plenty of outdoor time and lower risk of exposure, hopefully at a time numbers are low here (have been low last 2 summers).

My shots have all been Pfizer. I was down with low fever and fatigue for 30 hours starting the day after both 2nd and 3rd shots, so I think that's just how my immune system is going to respond. I'm fine with either Pfizer or Moderna shots in the future, but would probably go with Pfizer as a known quantity if they asked me to choose.

[mommyoffive]

Seizures, croup, and mechanical ventilation: New study shows how severe Omicron can get in unvaccinated children (yahoo.com)

[KSera]

2 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Are most people switching up for the fourth shot?  Everyone who asks my opinion got 3 doses of the same (3 Pfizer or 3 Moderna) and I am wondering if everyone should switch to the opposite.

I will switch for my fourth after getting all three the same for the first three. There appears to be a benefit from the slightly differing profile of immune response. 

[Jaybee]

1 hour ago, Ali in OR said:

I'm going to try to wait until fall (back-to-school time for me) for my 4th shot. My booster was Oct. 4 and I'm in the age bracket to qualify, but like a previous poster, I don't want to "waste" peak immunity if our numbers stay low.

I think I will too. I had initial Pfizer vaccines in March/April 2021, a booster in September, then had covid in February 2022. I don't want to get a booster now, and then another one in the fall. It isn't clear to me that it would be beneficial. Obviously, I am in favor of vaccinations. But I'm not sure I'm completely comfortable taking one every few months for an indefinite period of time. 

[Catwoman]

I had J&J first and then switched to Pfizer. Next time… I just don’t know. 

I keep hoping that a new vaccine will be approved and I can try that one. 🙂 

 

[wathe]

18 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Are the re-infections people who had it recently the first time?  Or did they have it a year or more ago?  Just wondering.

Within a couple of months.  Presumed both Omicron

[catz]

4 minutes ago, wathe said:

Within a couple of months.  Presumed both Omicron

That is interesting because I've seen some stuff saying ba2 is much less common in those who've had a confirmed case of ba1.  Not that it is impossible, but statistically much less likely.  And how that has held ba2 numbers down in South Africa.  

I will say we've had delta circulating in our wastewater up until the last couple weeks and delta peaked about mid December here, so it is definitely possible to have had a Delta infection in not distant history and then get ba2.  I wish we were collecting more uniform data to analyze on variants, I'm grateful we have local wastewater info on the regular.  We were at about 75% ba2 a week ago with numbers mostly holding so far.

[wathe]

5 minutes ago, catz said:

That is interesting because I've seen some stuff saying ba2 is much less common in those who've had a confirmed case of ba1.  Not that it is impossible, but statistically much less likely.  And how that has held ba2 numbers down in South Africa.  

I will say we've had delta circulating in our wastewater up until the last couple weeks and delta peaked about mid December here, so it is definitely possible to have had a Delta infection in not distant history and then get ba2.  I wish we were collecting more uniform data to analyze on variants, I'm grateful we have local wastewater info on the regular.  We were at about 75% ba2 a week ago with numbers mostly holding so far.

I think maybe it's that we just have had so much of both circulating - one of our Science Table leads estimates 30 000 to 35 000 cases per day, (in a population of 14 million).  A small fraction of a big number can still be a big number, in absolute terms.   Just the same way that we had more hospitalizations with omicron (in absolute numbers) than we did with delta, even though omicron  was relatively "milder".

[Spy Car]

4 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

Are most people switching up for the fourth shot?  Everyone who asks my opinion got 3 doses of the same (3 Pfizer or 3 Moderna) and I am wondering if everyone should switch to the opposite.

I have had 4 of Moderna.

I'm not convinced that there is much of a difference between it and Pfizer, aside from the larger dose used in the Moderna case, which seems to be more protective.

To add to any data collection here, my arm got fairly sore yesterday and is still fairly sore. I'd say more sore than Shot #1 and Shot #3 (which were the only big side-effects of those shots, other than a slight headache.

Shot #2 was the only one that hit me a little harder. Very agitated night of thrashed non-sleep and considerable headache.

I'd call 1, 3, and 4 fairly mild and 2 mild to mild-medium.

No real reaction to this one aside from having a tender arm. In some ways I consider the sore arm a positive confirmation that the shot is working. If I did not have a reaction I think I might be concerned about whether the tiny pharmacy where I got the shot handled the material properly.

Bill

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

20 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Are the re-infections people who had it recently the first time?  Or did they have it a year or more ago?  Just wondering.

I’m seeing reinfections in people who had it in  December and are fully vaxxed and boostered. Fortunately, nobody is very sick or needs hospitalization.  Just feels miserable, maybe needs some IV fluids at the most.

[kbutton]

@cintinative I saw this on FB today.

 

[vonfirmath]

I got my booster (Pfizer after Moderna original) at the same time I got my flu shot. No side effects I can recall.

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by vonfirmath

[cintinative]

38 minutes ago, kbutton said:

@cintinative I saw this on FB today.

 

 

Sort of frightening because when you go on the Ohio hospitals dashboard our in hospital numbers are way down. So if they are still on "critical operations" (they were in January when we peaked) to me that means there is a huge staffing problem. Or am I misinterpreting?

 

[kbutton]

41 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Sort of frightening because when you go on the Ohio hospitals dashboard our in hospital numbers are way down. So if they are still on "critical operations" (they were in January when we peaked) to me that means there is a huge staffing problem. Or am I misinterpreting?

I don't know if it's staffing or if it's people in for things that got put off due to Covid. It would be nice to know. 

[Ausmumof3]

16 hours ago, wathe said:

Within a couple of months.  Presumed both Omicron

This is what’s being reported here - people that got BA1 getting BA2

[Ausmumof3]

8 hours ago, kbutton said:

I don't know if it's staffing or if it's people in for things that got put off due to Covid. It would be nice to know. 

One thing that’s going on here is they are only including active covid infections. So if you have ongoing hospitalisations that go past the two weeks it’s no longer counted as covid even if you’re still there. 
 

Im not sure how many people are in that situation but I could imagine it being substantial

[mommyoffive]

China Covid Crisis Grows With Cases Surging, New Sub-Strains (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

Why do some people seem unable to catch COVID? Scientists are looking for answers. (msn.com)

[wathe]

6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

One thing that’s going on here is they are only including active covid infections. So if you have ongoing hospitalisations that go past the two weeks it’s no longer counted as covid even if you’re still there. 
 

Im not sure how many people are in that situation but I could imagine it being substantial

Same here.

Only  hospitalizations due to "active covid" are public.  After 2 weeks, covid patients' status changes to "covid recovered", and those patients are not included in the publicly reported hospitalizations counts, even though their reason for hospitalization is still covid disease.  And they can stay for a very long time.    "Covid recovered" patients have outnumbered "active covid" inpatients since our Omicron peak (or properly our first Omicron peak, since there is a second one brewing) in January.   At peak as high as 3 times as many.  Now it's improved to closer to 1:1, but that will change for the worse as this new wave takes off.

 

[wathe]

15 hours ago, kbutton said:

I don't know if it's staffing or if it's people in for things that got put off due to Covid. It would be nice to know. 

Here it's both.

[kbutton]

7 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

One thing that’s going on here is they are only including active covid infections. So if you have ongoing hospitalisations that go past the two weeks it’s no longer counted as covid even if you’re still there. 
 

Im not sure how many people are in that situation but I could imagine it being substantial

Maybe. It says in the Hamilton County graphic that Covid patients are using only a fraction of beds, but it might be that they are reclassified. Local hospital systems have posted things about finally having fewer Covid patients than at whatever point they are measuring from. Our state hasn’t been overly coy about their numbers.