Duggar found GUILTY

[itsheresomewhere]

11 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Okay, whatever that "gossip" was, it sounded pretty crazy except I could totally see his siblings being sick of him and refusing to give compassion statements or whatever. 

I don't know much about the Arndts. What little I do know is basically nuts. If you made a dressing container of Duggars, Bates, Kellers, Arndts, and Pearls, have it a vigorous shake, and poured out the mixture, it would be glowing green and have three heads! 

I think it may have partial truths in that gossip.  

[Pam in CT]

re Siri, how does the process of "self-selection" work?

8 minutes ago, maize said:

I really hate that these kinds of people are where many get their impressions of what big families are like.

I grew up in a double digits, religiously observant family.

And...our life had nothing whatsoever in common with the Duggars.

But then, families like mine weren't putting themselves out there on TV.

I expect the bolded explains the difference. 

 

It takes a certain sort, to pimp out their children for their own enrichment.

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, maize said:

I really hate that these kinds of people are where many get their impressions of what big families are like.

I grew up in a double digits, religiously observant family.

And...our life had nothing whatsoever in common with the Duggars.

But then, families like mine weren't putting themselves out there on TV.

Bingo. Reality t.v. is awful!

[Faith-manor]

59 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re Siri, how does the process of "self-selection" work?

I expect the bolded explains the difference. 

 

It takes a certain sort, to pimp out their children for their own enrichment.

Yes. These people are narcissists and found a way to make money off it.

[TechWife]

I appreciate some of the details about this case that were discussed early in this thread. But IMO the thread has moved away from information and toward gossip and speculation about the family. Is it possible to refocus? Thanks.

 

[Faith-manor]

13 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I appreciate some of the details about this case that were discussed early in this thread. But IMO the thread has moved away from information and toward gossip and speculation about the family. Is it possible to refocus? Thanks.

 

Sure.

As far as the case, he is being held in a local lock up, but it appears that federal rules apply so it is unclear if he can have visitors or not. His attorneys asked to 30 days to file some motions which pushes sentencing out from 70-90 to 120 days which means there won't be a sentencing until spring. Time served will be deducted from the sentence.

There are several prep sentencing reports the judge will need to receive and consider. A point system which is a fairly straight forward mathematical formula will be used to determine that sentence. While there is leeway, several legal analysts have said that federal judge usually stick pretty close to the formula. Points in his favor could be good behavior while in lock up, no bond violations prior to the trial, etc. Big points against him will be the sexual assaults which can be used against him though they were not prosecuted because he confessed and police reports after the fact confirm. This could lead to a determination that he is a continued threat, and that is a lot of points not in his favor. So he isn't going to get the minimum, but there isn't a strong chance of getting the maximum either.

At this time, there have been no statements from the family that indicate a belief in his innocence. Now that doesn't mean that they believe he is guilty, well, Dillards, Vuolos, and Forsyths do believe he is guilty. But, the "Parisian Hacker partitioned his hard drive remotely" didn't wash in court so that has not been parroted back thus far.

Duggar and Duggar adjacent attendees of the trial were Anna, Derrick, Austin, for the duration. Justin and Claire along with Mrs. Spivey came in the middle. Uncle Eric (Anna's uncle was there for a couple of days but not the whole time), Joy Anna, came for about 2/3-3/4 of the trial, The Sun kept messing up names so I ended up confused about whether or not it was Jedidiah, Jeremiah, Jason, Joe, or James who attended so I gave up trying to keep track - everyone of those boys resemble each other to an amazing degree - Jessa came only after the prosecution has rested, and JB as well. Michelle was never there. Jana came for one day but also after the prosecution rested. Josiah and Lauren were not there and have not, to my knowledge, made a statement. They had scrubbed there social media in the last months leading to the trial and I don't blame them.

JB lost his primary run for state senator. 

We have no idea if the prep sentencing reports will include forensic interviews of the M's or not. It would not be unprecedented under the circumstances.

Federal appeals very, very rarely find success.

[busymama7]

What is a forensic interview? 

[Ottakee]

2 hours ago, busymama7 said:

What is a forensic interview? 

An interview by a child abuse specialist...people highly trained in interviewing children who have been a&xually abused.

[Guest]

Yes. I mean in the one episode when one of the sister moms lost sight of her charge, Michelle didn't even act like she cared. 
 

I remember that. I remember how much it bothered me. The main thing that bothered me was that little Jackson sought comfort from *Jana*, not Mommy/Daddy. Michelle was literally in the background with a doofus smile on her face. (And at the time of that airing, I *liked* the Duggars and watched the show often.) 

 

There have been other episodes where the “buddy” was clearly *The Mother*, at least from the kid’s perspective. That was one of the earliest things to bother me. 
 

You know, I feel I should mention that I did get a lot out of shows like that years and years ago and thought it was a positive thing. I also remember very particularly feeling encouraged by Kate Gossling, because the sextuplets were almost the same age as my youngest little maniac. I would literally think, “If that woman can keep her sanity with *six* toddlers, plus twins, I can manage my one little maniac.”

 

Now, IMO, Kate is worse, or as bad at least, as Michelle. Different bad mothering, but still bad. I’m just saying that it’s possible to admire some things even if you don’t like others/all things. 

[HS Mom in NC]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

I’m just saying that it’s possible to admire some things even if you don’t like others/all things. 

I agree.  Many people are able to analyze and pick out things like in the earlier episodes where questions about household management were covered.  How do they feed that many people daily?  What do their pantry and household budgets look like?  How are high volume, regular chores like dishes and laundry handled? How do you get than many kids dressed up, zipped up, buckled in, and hands held and off to an outing on time? What does building your own home entail and what can children actually do that contributes in some way? Those are the kinds of things that usually motivate people to tune in at first.

An example from my own life: Do I agree with Mormon theology and every sub-cultural aspect of the Mormon communities I was surrounded by and that I have friends in?  Nope. I take serious issue with quite a few things.  Who has been the most influential group of homeschoolers that have contributed the most practical help and support teaching me to run a household while homeschooling? It's not even close-my Mormon friends and Mormon authors with large families. (And I grew up a farm kid who had a real experience in running a medium sized household and hobby farm, so I was farther ahead than the average American would be.)  Most of them are freaking wizards at that kind of stuff and my life has been significantly better than it would've been without them. I have a lot of admiration for them and I owe them a debt they'd never even think of collecting on. (Mormons tend to be especially kind and generous people IME.)

[KungFuPanda]

19 hours ago, itsheresomewhere said:

The dad did try to start a church at home with his random made up religion.  Last I heard, the dad was kind of begging for money on social media.  

Countdown to when JB realizes the real money is in starting his own culty church. I’m surprised he hasn’t put more effort into that than politics. 

14 hours ago, TechWife said:

I appreciate some of the details about this case that were discussed early in this thread. But IMO the thread has moved away from information and toward gossip and speculation about the family. Is it possible to refocus? Thanks.

 

I doubt it. 😬

[Katy]

51 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Countdown to when JB realizes the real money is in starting his own culty church. I’m surprised he hasn’t put more effort into that than politics. 

I doubt it. 😬

JB starts a new church, on average, every 3 years according to multiple online reports from people who claim to have gone to the church with them back before they split with the Holts.  He has a split with his old church over a theological issue and takes half the church with him to get a new church & pastor.

Though lately I heard somewhere (probably KJ & Pickles's pages) that he's started calling himself a prophet.  So perhaps that is the next step.  It was the first I'd heard of Baptists calling anyone a modern day prophet. 

The ones I grew up around were mostly cessastionists.  Is that how you spell that?  It doesn't look right.  Anyway they believed the age of using spiritual gifts as described in the New Testament had mostly stopped. It always surprised me because the women I know all had really strong intuition and trusted it, and no one had any problem asking for gossipy prayer.

[Catwoman]

36 minutes ago, Katy said:

JB starts a new church, on average, every 3 years according to multiple online reports from people who claim to have gone to the church with them back before they split with the Holts.  He has a split with his old church over a theological issue and takes half the church with him to get a new church & pastor.

Though lately I heard somewhere (probably KJ & Pickles's pages) that he's started calling himself a prophet.  So perhaps that is the next step.  It was the first I'd heard of Baptists calling anyone a modern day prophet. 

The ones I grew up around were mostly cessastionists.  Is that how you spell that?  It doesn't look right.  Anyway they believed the age of using spiritual gifts as described in the New Testament had mostly stopped. It always surprised me because the women I know all had really strong intuition and trusted it, and no one had any problem asking for gossipy prayer.

Prophet? Or maybe he just doesn't know how to spell "Profit?" 😉 

Because everything is all about the Almighty (Dollar) with JimBob.

Ugh.

I wish he would just GO AWAY.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Catwoman

[HS Mom in NC]

Aren't there laws about child actors being paid into trusts so their parents can't have all of it?  That should apply to kids on reality TV.

[Catwoman]

Just now, HS Mom in NC said:

Aren't there laws about child actors being paid into trusts so their parents can't have all of it?  That should apply to kids on reality TV.

I'm not sure about this, but I once heard that the reason the Duggars' show was filmed in Arkansas was because the laws were different there (when compared with the laws in other states like California,) and JimBob and Michelle were able to collect all of the money for themselves. Not sure if it's true, though!

[Katy]

5 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

Aren't there laws about child actors being paid into trusts so their parents can't have all of it?  That should apply to kids on reality TV.

There's a state law in California, I think.  Or it might be a union rule for actors. AFAIK no states have protected kids being exploited either on reality shows or social media.

[Danae]

1 hour ago, HS Mom in NC said:

Aren't there laws about child actors being paid into trusts so their parents can't have all of it?  That should apply to kids on reality TV.

Should, but does not.  People on reality,  game shows, and similar are not paid as actors.  JB got money through licensing deals and possibly being credited as a producer on the show.  

[readinmom]

Wondering that during this time, JB is doing a total brainwash job on the Ms before a possible forensic interview?  After watching the girls interview about forgiving Josh, etc...

[Catwoman]

48 minutes ago, readinmom said:

Wondering that during this time, JB is doing a total brainwash job on the Ms before a possible forensic interview?  After watching the girls interview about forgiving Josh, etc...

I would be fairly certain that he is doing exactly that.

[Catwoman]

One happy update — several news outlets are reporting that Josh Duggar has been denied conjugal visits with Anna while he awaits sentencing, and apparently he will also not be allowed conjugal visits once he is sentenced. 

So yay for that!

On the other hand, I’m wondering if Anna wanted conjugal visits with that pervert, or if this was all Josh’s doing (or if creepy JimBob had a part in it.)

So as long as she’s not already pregnant, it looks like Josh won’t be fathering any babies from prison. Thank goodness. 

[TechWife]

6 hours ago, readinmom said:

Wondering that during this time, JB is doing a total brainwash job on the Ms before a possible forensic interview?  After watching the girls interview about forgiving Josh, etc...

They may have been interviewed soon after his arrest. 
 

[saraha]

Wait, so conjugal visits are a real thing? Do they just give them a private room in the prison?!? Do all prisoners get this? Seriously, I thought conjugal visits were an urban legend 

[DawnM]

N/M

Edited December 18, 2021 by DawnM

[Katy]

1 hour ago, saraha said:

Wait, so conjugal visits are a real thing? Do they just give them a private room in the prison?!? Do all prisoners get this? Seriously, I thought conjugal visits were an urban legend 

Yes, it's a real thing in some state prisons.  It doesn't happen in federal prisons.  It's not just a private room or trailer with a spouse, it can also be having your kids come for a private visit in a home-like environment for Christmas.

Many prison reform advocates say it's good, because someone with something to look forward to is FAR less likely to have fights or break rules than someone with nothing to look forward to.

[Slache]

Our conjugal visits were held in what resembled a two-bedroom apartment made out of cinder blocks. We had two bedrooms, one bathroom, a living room and an eat-in kitchen. We were allowed to bring food that was still sealed to cook with, and we had a small yard with a basketball and hoop. We also had a television but there was no cable so we spent most of our time doing puzzles which we brought with us or outside. The fences were 20 feet tall with barbed wire just like the rest of the prison. The windows were too small to fit a person through. I probably went on two per year from the ages of 3 to 14. I think they were three days long.

[Faith-manor]

30 minutes ago, Katy said:

Yes, it's a real thing in some state prisons.  It doesn't happen in federal prisons.  It's not just a private room or trailer with a spouse, it can also be having your kids come for a private visit in a home-like environment for Christmas.

Many prison reform advocates say it's good, because someone with something to look forward to is FAR less likely to have fights or break rules than someone with nothing to look forward to.

And for those in for non violent crimes and likely to return to society and have visitation with their children, potentially reunited with their family, it is far better to allow these relationships to continue in a healthier way throughout the incarceration. 

As much society likes to do us on the punishment aspect, it is important to take a longer perspective on life post-prison.

No conjugal visits for these two is a GOOD thing. I do not put it past her to try to GRT pregnant by this monster yet again. I hope because it is CSAM and he has shown a pattern of escalating behavior plus assaulting his sisters, they will not allow him to have any visits with his children. This is one case in which I think that would be very bad for the kids.

Also, there had been a couple more folks from the Duggar's former church come forward about more of what he was up to prior to marrying Anna. This includes being addicted to phone sex racking up 20 hours on the Duggar cell phone in a single months and also during that time when Josh was "refurbishing" computers, he gave computers to other families and they found thousands of adult porn images and videos on the computers. Meanwhile, they are on their t.v. show proclaiming how the men had no internet access, and no one got on the computer without a buddy, and Michelle and Jana were the only ones with internet passwords, and blah blah blah. They clearly had their "look how righteous we are with our rules" face for the show, and then let him do what he wanted when the cameras were not on. Reddit had the discussion, and the moderators have verified the source and credibility. One set of parents went bananas on the Duggar because their 7 year old boy got exposed to adult porn on the computer Josh gave them.