COVID--give up mask or not--input WWYD?

[Not_a_Number]

5 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Not picking on your family decisions - as long as you are meeting guidelines etc. and are respectful of others (as you indicate that you are), I have no problem with them.  But I did want to point out that actual colds (even more than Covid) can be picked up from surfaces.  So while masks can help with airborne droplets and can keep you from touching your mouth etc., you could sit down for lunch (or whatever) at a table that has cold germs and pick them up.  And the "common cold" has an incubation period of up to 72 hours (according to Google) so it gets even more difficult to sort out where you might get something.  (Of course Covid too has an incubation period that can make figuring out where you get that difficult too. . . )  All to say that none of this is cut and dried!  I just wouldn't say though that masks don't cut down on airborne viruses at all, though.

I actually think there isn’t great evidence for surface transmission of any respiratory viruses. We still haven’t gotten a single one outside, and my kids touch plenty of playground surfaces.

[ChickaDeeDeeDee]

Our family has been done with masking for a long time.  We only wear masks if it is worth doing the thing it is required to do.  We do all the things that we would normally do to have strong immune systems and have good hygiene. 

The under 18 year olds here are mostly having mild symptoms here when they get covid.  We live in a university town so there are lots of people under 50 years old and our county has had zero under 50 covid deaths.   Interestingly,  the older and more at risk population here largely took one of two routes -  some have been done with masks for a long time and others are using KN95.  I don't see a lot of older people using cloth masks.  

Last weekend my son competed in an indoor event that changed from masks required to masks optional and a lot of people chose to ditch the mask.   It was a mix of adults and kids.  A few people who wanted the protection wore KN95 masks.  Everyone just respected everyone else's decision.  No ridicule, animosity, etc. in either direction. 

 

 

[Syllieann]

3 minutes ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

Our family has been done with masking for a long time.  We only wear masks if it is worth doing the thing it is required to do.  We do all the things that we would normally do to have strong immune systems and have good hygiene. 

The under 18 year olds here are mostly having mild symptoms here when they get covid.  We live in a university town so there are lots of people under 50 years old and our county has had zero under 50 covid deaths.   Interestingly,  the older and more at risk population here largely took one of two routes -  some have been done with masks for a long time and others are using KN95.  I don't see a lot of older people using cloth masks.  

Last weekend my son competed in an indoor event that changed from masks required to masks optional and a lot of people chose to ditch the mask.   It was a mix of adults and kids.  A few people who wanted the protection wore KN95 masks.  Everyone just respected everyone else's decision.  No ridicule, animosity, etc. in either direction. 

 

 

There were probably people who would have attended if there was source control, but once masks became optional, opted to skip it.  It's hard to say how many people are being effectively pushed aside or put out since they don't show up.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

There were probably people who would have attended if there was source control, but once masks became optional, opted to skip it.  It's hard to say how many people are being effectively pushed aside or put out since they don't show up.

Probably true. On the other hand, older folks also have the choice to get vaccinated and boosted at this point.

[ChickaDeeDeeDee]

1 minute ago, Syllieann said:

There were probably people who would have attended if there was source control, but once masks became optional, opted to skip it.  It's hard to say how many people are being effectively pushed aside or put out since they don't show up.

Well, the event sold out so.....   guess it's good they didn't want to go anyway. 

I keep hearing people whine about feeling excluded but they're welcome to wear a KN95 to protect themselves - and it is supposed to be super effective if they wear it correctly.    I think it is just that they're scared but want to complain that others don't carry their same level of fear.  Just want to try to shame others for being willing to go about life.  

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

Well, the event sold out so.....   guess it's good they didn't want to go anyway. 

I keep hearing people whine about feeling excluded but they're welcome to wear a KN95 to protect themselves - and it is supposed to be super effective if they wear it correctly.    I think it is just that they're scared but want to complain that others don't carry their same level of fear.  Just want to try to shame others for being willing to go about life.  

Well, that's very harsh. It's RATIONAL to be scared of COVID if you're older and unvaccinated (or even if you're older and 7 months out from the vaccine.) 

Masks are definitely more effective as a population-wide measure. Other people wearing masks helps more than you wearing a mask, especially in real-world situations. 

[Syllieann]

1 minute ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

Well, the event sold out so.....   guess it's good they didn't want to go anyway. 

I keep hearing people whine about feeling excluded but they're welcome to wear a KN95 to protect themselves - and it is supposed to be super effective if they wear it correctly.    I think it is just that they're scared but want to complain that others don't carry their same level of fear.  Just want to try to shame others for being willing to go about life.  

Source control is far more effective.  That's why it's not a "just" personal choice to wear a mask.

It sounds like you're not worried about anyone feeling resentful though if you're glad they didn't come.  I need to leave now because you basically accused me of being a sissy for pointing out a fact of community health.  This will go nowhere.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Syllieann said:

Source control is far more effective.  That's why it's not a "just" personal choice to wear a mask.

It sounds like you're not worried about anyone feeling resentful though if you're glad they didn't come.  I need to leave now because you basically accused me of being a sissy for pointing out a fact of community health.  This will go nowhere.

I think conversations about this stuff have hardened so much along political lines that they are pointless. So you're right to bow out. 

[ChickaDeeDeeDee]

8 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, that's very harsh. It's RATIONAL to be scared of COVID if you're older and unvaccinated (or even if you're older and 7 months out from the vaccine.) 

Agree that it is rational for some people to be more concerned,  but I trust that those people can make decisions about their own risk and what it is okay or not for them to participate in.   We had a different event where the organizer is a kidney transplant recipient and requested that everyone wear a mask.  So guess what, everyone did and if they didn't want to they stayed home.  So, *gasp* some people may have been excluded...   but I never would have described it that way or complained that he wasn't accommodating my preferences.  

 

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think conversations about this stuff have hardened so much along political lines that they are pointless. So you're right to bow out. 

Maybe your Covid views are political (don't know) but mine are not.  Why anyone would trust a politician for medical advice is beyond me!   

[ChickaDeeDeeDee]

23 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

It sounds like you're not worried about anyone feeling resentful though if you're glad they didn't come.  I need to leave now because you basically accused me of being a sissy for pointing out a fact of community health.  This will go nowhere.

I didn't say I was glad that some people didn't come.  I also didn't accuse you of being a sissy.  Don't try to make me responsible for whatever feelings you have about other people choosing to live their lives in a way that isn't right for you.  

[Not_a_Number]

16 minutes ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

Agree that it is rational for some people to be more concerned,  but I trust that those people can make decisions about their own risk and what it is okay or not for them to participate in.   

The point is that other people’s behavior affects their risk.

 

17 minutes ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

Maybe your Covid views are political (don't know) but mine are not.  Why anyone would trust a politician for medical advice is beyond me!   

Mine are not, no.

[SeaConquest]

1 hour ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

Well, the event sold out so.....   guess it's good they didn't want to go anyway. 

I keep hearing people whine about feeling excluded but they're welcome to wear a KN95 to protect themselves - and it is supposed to be super effective if they wear it correctly.    I think it is just that they're scared but want to complain that others don't carry their same level of fear.  Just want to try to shame others for being willing to go about life.  

Or, maybe they care more about people than just themselves.

[cintinative]

13 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm apparently in the minority, but after the kids are vaxxed and the Delta waves dies down, we plan to take the masks off. At this point, anyone who doesn't want to get COVID has the resources to do so, and I feel like I've done my part. 

Honestly, I don't think you are. 

I think that it has to do with how we are all interpreting the question asked.

If the OP had phrased her question as a "would you always require masks from now on, regardless of community spread?" I think she would have gotten a different response from some of us.

My read of the question was that she was asking about right now, which the last I checked was a situation of high community spread across the U.S.  So yes, if our positivity locally went way way down (it's currently over 13%) and the hospitals were at normal status, I would consider relaxing the masking. But not right now. And since I don't know when the Delta wave will die down here or when the hospitals will be less overwhelmed, I cannot say when I will feel comfortable.

[SeaConquest]

12 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

I realize the official best answer is yes masks always. But our real life is more nuanced than that and it doesn’t feel ridiculous to make different decisions depending on the circumstances. 
 

While masking all the time for personal protection makes sense if that is what you have determined for your family I am not willing to take on the responsibility of community spread and hospital collapse if my vaxxed and low exposure teen doesn’t wear a mask to a youth group activity. Our community is under vaxxed and anti-mask and has never shut down much of anything. I don’t feel responsible for community spread and hospital collapse when my neighbors are knowingly going to church with active Covid infection and schools are holding big homecoming dances etc. We aren’t the problem here. 

Life *is* more nuanced than that, and I hope that my follow up example expressed that I am not dogmatic in my approach to living my own life.  And you are right. You absolutely are not the problem. We wouldn't be living in this dystopian hellscape if people were following your example, so thank you for doing your part in getting vaccinated and masking as much as possible (at a minimum, around the most obviously vulnerable). 

[Not_a_Number]

30 minutes ago, cintinative said:

My read of the question was that she was asking about right now, which the last I checked was a situation of high community spread across the U.S.  So yes, if our positivity locally went way way down (it's currently over 13%) and the hospitals were at normal status, I would consider relaxing the masking. But not right now. And since I don't know when the Delta wave will die down here or when the hospitals will be less overwhelmed, I cannot say when I will feel comfortable.

Things are actually fine here right now, but I expect they may not be in a few months. I could be wrong, of course. Maybe enough people will get vaxxed/boosted that it'll all be easy, I dunno. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I actually think there isn’t great evidence for surface transmission of any respiratory viruses. We still haven’t gotten a single one outside, and my kids touch plenty of playground surfaces.

So?  I was responding to someone whose kid did pick up a respiratory virus. I was just pointing out that there is more than one scientifically documented way of doing that. Though of course masks aren’t 100% unless you’re in a N100 that’s properly fit-tested. 

[Spy Car]

10 hours ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

Well, the event sold out so.....   guess it's good they didn't want to go anyway. 

I keep hearing people whine about feeling excluded but they're welcome to wear a KN95 to protect themselves - and it is supposed to be super effective if they wear it correctly.    I think it is just that they're scared but want to complain that others don't carry their same level of fear.  Just want to try to shame others for being willing to go about life.  

Your actions put lives at risk.

That's not "respectful" and .

Bill

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by desertflower
Name calling

[cintinative]

20 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Things are actually fine here right now, 

This is what I was basing my comment on high spread across the U.S. on.  I am not sure what positivity is across the U.S. I assume that is what this is based on?

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

So?  I was responding to someone whose kid did pick up a respiratory virus. I was just pointing out that there is more than one scientifically documented way of doing that. Though of course masks aren’t 100% unless you’re in a N100 that’s properly fit-tested. 

I would just guess they picked it up via the air, that's all. I've been kind of awed by the results of our "no inside time" experiment.

There's actually data about other respiratory viruses mostly being airborne that's like 30 years old! At some point, I went poking around and realized that the focus on surface transmission may not be logical for ANY of the standard colds. 

That obviously doesn't apply to other stuff, though. Like, DD5 picked up a stomach bug at a playground, and I can vouch for stomach bugs transferring via surface VERY well. 

[Not_a_Number]

57 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Honestly, I don't think you are. 

I think that it has to do with how we are all interpreting the question asked.

If the OP had phrased her question as a "would you always require masks from now on, regardless of community spread?" I think she would have gotten a different response from some of us.

My read of the question was that she was asking about right now, which the last I checked was a situation of high community spread across the U.S.  So yes, if our positivity locally went way way down (it's currently over 13%) and the hospitals were at normal status, I would consider relaxing the masking. But not right now. And since I don't know when the Delta wave will die down here or when the hospitals will be less overwhelmed, I cannot say when I will feel comfortable.

I also think that at this point, I don't really feel as responsible for other people as I used to. If one lives in a low mask area in which there's rampant anti-vaccine propaganda, then it's not one's fault if other people get sick. 

So if I were the OP, I'd be concerned about myself and vulnerable people I directly cared about, but I wouldn't try to protect random people from themselves at the cost of my kids' social lives. 

[KSera]

3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I actually think there isn’t great evidence for surface transmission of any respiratory viruses. We still haven’t gotten a single one outside, and my kids touch plenty of playground surfaces.

Outdoor surfaces are exposed to UV light though, which we know is effective at killing most viruses. So, it doesn’t tell us much about indoors. Plus, anecdote.  Certainly at this point I’m not about to change my handwashing and not touching my face out of the house habits,  despite fully believing that most of the time the virus is spread through the air.

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Probably true. On the other hand, older folks also have the choice to get vaccinated and boosted at this point.

But the older folks are the ones most likely to be susceptible to breakthrough cases. And it was only just on Friday that it started being available to many of them. My parents haven’t been able to get one yet, despite wanting one. It will be a few weeks before I would consider everyone who wanted to be boosted to have done so.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Outdoor surfaces are exposed to UV light though, which we know is effective at killing most viruses. So, it doesn’t tell us much about indoors. Plus, anecdote.  Certainly at this point I’m not about to change my handwashing and not touching my face out of the house habits,  despite fully believing that most of the time the virus is spread through the air.

I do think that makes sense. I've just been wondering recently how evidence-based it is. It's hard to find real-life evidence of it. 

 

1 minute ago, KSera said:

But the older folks are the ones most likely to be susceptible to breakthrough cases. And it was only just on Friday that it started being available to many of them. My parents haven’t been able to get one yet, despite wanting one. It will be a few weeks before I would consider everyone who wanted to be boosted to have done so.

That's fair. I do see that.

[Not_a_Number]

Here's an intriguing study I found when I was poking around: 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3039011/

Quoting: 

 

Rhinovirus infections may spread by aerosol, direct contact, or indirect contact involving environmental objects. We examined aerosol and indirect contact in transmission of rhinovirus type 16 colds between laboratory-infected men (donors) and susceptible men (recipients) who played cards together for 12 hr. In three experiments the infection rate of restrained recipients (10 [56%] of 18), who could not touch their faces and could only have been infected by aerosols, and that of unrestrained recipients (12[67%] of 18), who could have been infected by aerosol, by direct contact, or by indirect fomite contact, was not significantly different (chi 2 = 0.468, P = .494). In a fourth experiment, transmission via fomites heavily used for 12 hr by eight donors was the only possible route of spread, and no transmissions occurred among 12 recipients (P less than .001 by two-tailed Fisher's exact test). These results suggest that contrary to current opinion, rhinovirus transmission, at least in adults, occurs chiefly by the aerosol route.

 

The numbers are obviously really small, so it's not exactly definitive. However, a LOT of the common cold studies I can find are like the COVID studies from earlier in the pandemic, where they use really unrealistic amounts of virus. I don't think there are a ton of "real life" studies about how things spread. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[kristin0713]

The OP was asking if her vaccinated teens should keep masking when others are not. 

I mentioned that my son got a cold in a masking environment because even when all the kids were masking, he still got sick. (Which, I do believe he picked up at the camp, because he didn't go anywhere else that week and it was at the end of the week).  I know that covid and colds are not the same. I also know that kids are not going to be wearing masks perfectly.  And my kid is vaccinated for covid but obviously not for colds. My point was that the mask did not keep him from getting a cold when *others* were masking so I am certainly not going to make my vaccinated kid wear a mask when others are *not* masking. 

[mims]

2 hours ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

I didn't say I was glad that some people didn't come.  I also didn't accuse you of being a sissy.  Don't try to make me responsible for whatever feelings you have about other people choosing to live their lives in a way that isn't right for you.  

You walked into an echo chamber.  Don't try to argue it out, they'll go for blood.

[ChickaDeeDeeDee]

59 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Your actions put lives at risk.

That's not "respectful" and you deserve to be shamed.

Bill

 

 

No Bill, you are wrong. You are insinuating that I am a diseased person who is going out and spreading it .  Your perception that I am spreading disease if I am not wearing a mask is just flat out wrong.  When I go out into public sick you are welcome to shame me.   Until then, I find this type of statement an attempt to be emotionally manipulative so that people will behave the way that you perceive is superior.   

[Syllieann]

2 minutes ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

No Bill, you are wrong. You are insinuating that I am a diseased person who is going out and spreading it .  Your perception that I am spreading disease if I am not wearing a mask is just flat out wrong.  When I go out into public sick you are welcome to shame me.   Until then, I find this type of statement an attempt to be emotionally manipulative so that people will behave the way that you perceive is superior.   

Are you aware that most people with covid are infectious before they become symptomatic?

[regentrude]

20 minutes ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

You are insinuating that I am a diseased person who is going out and spreading it .  Your perception that I am spreading disease if I am not wearing a mask is just flat out wrong.  When I go out into public sick you are welcome to shame me.  

The problem is that none of us know if we carry the virus and just happen to be a- or pre-symptomatic. That's one reason the spread is so difficult to control. Most of the infections happen in the pre-symptomatic phase.

Edited September 27, 2021 by regentrude

[catz]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

 

But the older folks are the ones most likely to be susceptible to breakthrough cases. And it was only just on Friday that it started being available to many of them. My parents haven’t been able to get one yet, despite wanting one. It will be a few weeks before I would consider everyone who wanted to be boosted to have done so.

At a minimum.  My mom could have gotten an early booster due to RA drugs.  She didn't believe me when I told her.  And now her clinic sends an emails to their older patients saying don't call us we'll call you as they ramp up vaccines again.  Could she make an appointment at the drug store?  Yep - I've been urging her to for a month but she won't go outside her comfort zone.  

My husband and I are in our 50's.  We won't hit 6 months until November.  I think we MAY qualify for booster.  Him for high blood pressure meds, me due to weight.  

I'd personally err on the side of caution while community spread is high and hospitals are getting full.  I get that it seems hard for a teen in a place that just doesn't care.  I also get not caring, I just want it to burn through everyone who refuses to get vaccinated as quickly as possible.  But I'd like to see kids vaccinated and booster opportunities for at least anyone 30+ who wants one.  

[WildflowerMom]

1 hour ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

No Bill, you are wrong. You are insinuating that I am a diseased person who is going out and spreading it .  Your perception that I am spreading disease if I am not wearing a mask is just flat out wrong.  When I go out into public sick you are welcome to shame me.   Until then, I find this type of statement an attempt to be emotionally manipulative so that people will behave the way that you perceive is superior.   

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with you, but my advice is to let it go.   He uses the 'shame on you' argument to try his best to shame the women here.  I just picture him trying to hold my chin in place and look in my eyes to tell me, 'you should be ashamed of yourself' like my mother did to me when I was 4.  I wasn't all that ashamed then, and I'm certainly not when a man tries to shame me.   
welcome to the group, btw!  

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

No Bill, you are wrong. You are insinuating that I am a diseased person who is going out and spreading it .  Your perception that I am spreading disease if I am not wearing a mask is just flat out wrong.  When I go out into public sick you are welcome to shame me.   Until then, I find this type of statement an attempt to be emotionally manipulative so that people will behave the way that you perceive is superior.   

Baloney. You refuse to take basic precautions that can help save live and that is both disrespectful and shameful behavior.

Bill

[Terabith]

I have noticed that I've been forgetting my mask more often lately.  Like we'll go somewhere and I'll get out of the car and walk halfway across the parking lot and then I'll remember and go back and get it.  It's baffling, because I think by now, it would be so ingrained, but it's just been slipping my mind.  I asked my family rhetorically the other day why this was, and my husband says, "Because nobody else is wearing them."  Which is not completely true but not really wrong either.  We're going most of the places we would have pre-pandemic, but we're going in masks.  And things like church and restaurants we are mostly doing outside.  I usually see a couple other people masked, but we are definitely in the minority.  

I am really glad that schools are masked, because I think that is by far our place of biggest risk.  

[Spy Car]

4 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with you, but my advice is to let it go.   He uses the 'shame on you' argument to try his best to shame the women here.  I just picture him trying to hold my chin in place and look in my eyes to tell me, 'you should be ashamed of yourself' like my mother did to me when I was 4.  I wasn't all that ashamed then, and I'm certainly not when a man tries to shame me.   
welcome to the group, btw!  

Men, women, doesn't matter the gender of those who put other people at risk because they refuse to mask.

Knock off the sexism.

Bill

 

[WildflowerMom]

3 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Men, women, doesn't matter the gender of those who put other people at risk because they refuse to mask.

Knock off the sexism.

Bill

 

You first.  I'm sick of how you treat women here.  You know there's predominantly women here and you come in every chance you get to tell us how ashamed we should be of whatever it is you don't like.   You 'mansplain' every chance you get because I guess we're just not smart enough to understand.   Get over yourself. 

[WildflowerMom]

And mods, I'll keep my mouth shut from now on.   Sorry.  

[Spy Car]

2 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

You first.  I'm sick of how you treat women here.  You know there's predominantly women here and you come in every chance you get to tell us how ashamed we should be of whatever it is you don't like.   You 'mansplain' every chance you get because I guess we're just not smart enough to understand.   Get over yourself. 

No. You are engaging in an ugly and disgusting form of bigotry and you are supporting the wrong side of ethics and morality when it comes to masking.

Bad combo.

Look in the mirror.

Bill

[Laura Corin]

17 hours ago, Spryte said:

This is where we are, now. Once we are all vaccinated and this miserable Delta wave slows, I think we will be masks off except in very crowded, poorly ventilated areas. 

Our cases are still very high. Once this wave falls I'll still mask in crowded places - in a shop, a class, public transport.  But I'll go back to eating in restaurants. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Laura Corin
To make some sense

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

The problem is that none of us know if we carry the virus and just happen to be a- or pre-symptomatic. That's one reason the spread is so difficult to control. Most of the infections happen in the pre-symptomatic phase.

You know, I thought we established all this like a year ago 😕 . That we might all be spreading COVID before we're symptomatic, because that's a main route for it spreads. 

It's fascinating the stigma there is around COVID in some communities nowadays. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, FuzzyCatz said:

At a minimum.  My mom could have gotten an early booster due to RA drugs.  She didn't believe me when I told her.  And now her clinic sends an emails to their older patients saying don't call us we'll call you as they ramp up vaccines again.  Could she make an appointment at the drug store?  Yep - I've been urging her to for a month but she won't go outside her comfort zone.  

 

Oh my gosh, is this my sister?? I’m sure you’re talking about my mom here. EXACTLY the same. 

34 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Baloney. You refuse to take basic precautions that can help save live and that is both disrespectful and shameful behavior.

Bill

Bill, do you think you do any good at all in helping someone change their thinking with all your responses like this? It honestly frustrates me every time you enter one of these conversations, because you are more interested in telling people how bad they are than in sharing information that might change minds. That’s so unhelpful to the goal of getting through this pandemic sooner and with more people still alive. All people do in the face of this kind of reply is dig into their position harder. And that goes not just for the person you’re responding to, but to everyone else reading along that thinks the same way. 

[Spy Car]

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

Bill, do you think you do any good at all in helping someone change their thinking with all your responses like this? It honestly frustrates me every time you enter one of these conversations, because you are more interested in telling people how bad they are than in sharing information that might change minds. That’s so unhelpful to the goal of getting through this pandemic sooner and with more people still alive. All people do in the face of this kind of reply is dig into their position harder. And that goes not just for the person you’re responding to, but to everyone else reading along that thinks the same way. 

You don't think the information that masks help protect against the spread of Covid and that people can spread the virus when they are asymptomatic hasn't been made abundantly clear?

We are at 688,000 Covid deaths in the USA with over 2,000 people on average dying every day. To say nothing of the rest of the world.

You are not the only one who is frustrated. Trust me.

Bill

 

[bibiche]

4 minutes ago, KSera said:

Bill, do you think you do any good at all in helping someone change their thinking with all your responses like this? It honestly frustrates me every time you enter one of these conversations, because you are more interested in telling people how bad they are than in sharing information that might change minds. That’s so unhelpful to the goal of getting through this pandemic sooner and with more people still alive. All people do in the face of this kind of reply is dig into their position harder. And that goes not just for the person you’re responding to, but to everyone else reading along that thinks the same way. 

Yeah, but the thing is none of these people are changing their minds. Why continue to coddle them? I happen to agree with Bill - coddling doesn’t help, so why not tell it straight? It’s frustrating when you’ve seen people get sick and die through no fault of their own when a bunch of selfish people can’t be bothered to get vaxed or even wear a mask to try to stop the spread of disease. 

[ChickaDeeDeeDee]

2 hours ago, Syllieann said:

Are you aware that most people with covid are infectious before they become symptomatic?

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

The problem is that none of us know if we carry the virus and just happen to be a- or pre-symptomatic. That's one reason the spread is so difficult to control. Most of the infections happen in the pre-symptomatic phase.

 

[KSera]

1 minute ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

 

Can you give a summary of what this is or what point your video is making? I make a point of being as careful as I can about what I'm willing to click on on YouTube and who is making money off monetized clicks, so I don't click on most things like this.

[regentrude]

6 minutes ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

 

Scientific knowledge is evolving. I have no idea from when the video clip is (and whether it is actually legit and not altered), but it is generally accepted now that presymptomatic transmission is the main infection source and may account for 75% of delta cases.

No time to look for the original studies, by you can start here:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/people-with-delta-variant-can-transmit-virus-2-days-before-having-symptoms

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by regentrude

[ChickaDeeDeeDee]

1 minute ago, KSera said:

Can you give a summary of what this is or what point your video is making? I make a point of being as careful as I can about what I'm willing to click on on YouTube and who is making money off monetized clicks, so I don't click on most things like this.

Anthony Fauci speaking about asymptomatic spread of respiratory viruses.  Do you know if there is a way to tell if a YouTube video is monetized?  

[ChickaDeeDeeDee]

1 minute ago, regentrude said:

Scientific knowledge is evolving. I have no idea from when the video clip is (and whether it is actually legit and not altered), but it is generally accepted now that presymptomatic transmission is the main infection source and may account for 75% of delta cases.

No time to look for the original studies, by you can start here:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/people-with-delta-variant-can-transmit-virus-2-days-before-having-symptoms

 

I'll save this to read later.  In the studies I have read the community spread of asymptomatics was very low.  Higher among close contacts.  Always highest transmission by symptomatics.  

[Laura Corin]

4 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Scientific knowledge is evolving. I have no idea from when the video clip is (and whether it is actually legit and not altered), but it is generally accepted now that presymptomatic transmission is the main infection source and may account for 75% of delta cases.

No time to look for the original studies, by you can start here:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/people-with-delta-variant-can-transmit-virus-2-days-before-having-symptoms

 

Early on there were assumptions that pre-symptomatic transmission was not important because in the original SARS the transmission was symptomatic.  This is a different disease and scientists now know more.

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

I'll save this to read later.  In the studies I have read the community spread of asymptomatics was very low.  Higher among close contacts.  Always highest transmission by symptomatics.  

Perhaps that comes down to the difference between asymptomatic and presymptomatic. Presymptomatics spread the most, which means they are without symptoms at the time they spread. Asymptomatics are people who never show symptoms at all. I think it's accurate that people who later develop symptoms infect more people than those that never do, but they are mostly spreading before those symptoms develop.

Edited September 27, 2021 by KSera
typo

[Laura Corin]

2 minutes ago, ChickaDeeDeeDee said:

I'll save this to read later.  In the studies I have read the community spread of asymptomatics was very low.  Higher among close contacts.  Always highest transmission by symptomatics.  

It's important to distinguish asymptomatic from pre-symptomatic. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

15 minutes ago, KSera said:

Can you give a summary of what this is or what point your video is making? I make a point of being as careful as I can about what I'm willing to click on on YouTube and who is making money off monetized clicks, so I don't click on most things like this.

Fearless Ontario (which is the one who is distributing the Youtube) is an anti-vax activist group.  I wouldn't click on anything that they disseminate even if you gave me a million dollars (Canadian or US)