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Mom in Va. who lived through Cultural Revolution addresses school board regarding Critical Race Theory


Fritz
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Posted (edited)

That is little reason to not know the truth of what is being taught and how. Obviously the parents would be the only ones with login access. I would much rather risk someone fearing giving the wrong answer than having inappropriate information being taught. Perhaps it would encourage the students (and teachers) to be better prepared for class.

Privacy for teachers? I think not! The classroom is not their own private domain. It belongs to the taxpayers! I work on camera all day every day.

Edited by Fritz
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1 hour ago, Fritz said:

I heard recently the idea of putting cameras in all classrooms. I think this is a great idea! Accountability is a good thing and there will be no question of what is being taught and how. Currently parents can watch their children's daycares on camera and dog owners can watch their dogs in boarding facilities why not cameras in the classroom? 

Is this a joke? Seriously? I know people are suggesting this but I assumed it was just trolling because it's such a ridiculous idea. 

A great idea to put our children on camera? 

No way would I want that as a parent. 

My daughter's daycare was on camera when she was a baby and DH and I enjoyed watching her during the day But she was a newborn. That's very different from a high school class. 

 

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2 hours ago, Danae said:

Because it’s a horrible violation of privacy for both the students and the teacher.  And extremely detrimental to learning.  How many students are ever going to volunteer an answer in class if they know they’re on camera and their wrong answer could be mocked on the internet for years.  

I would seriously quit if the only way I could have a teaching job was to be on camera. I don't say anything that objectionable, but I guarantee you that if each kid's family was watching, SOMEONE would find something objectionable about what I did. 

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19 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I would seriously quit if the only way I could have a teaching job was to be on camera. I don't say anything that objectionable, but I guarantee you that if each kid's family was watching, SOMEONE would find something objectionable about what I did. 

Yes, I can only imagine the controversies that would arise. 

I wouldn't teach under those circumstances either. 

This is just so absurd. God forbid a teacher teach my kid anything that I don't approve of! What happens if a student asks a question? Will the teacher refuse to answer because he/she might get in trouble with another parent because they didn't like the answer? 

The idea that we're so afraid that a public school teacher might teach our kids something about race so we need to monitor their classroom says something about us. 

 

 

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[...Old enough to remember when the rapid-disseminating outrage du jour was on behalf of children being snatched by strangers from Walmart and trafficked;

puzzling over how that fits with today's rapid-disseminating clarion call for cameras in every classroom....]

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Posted (edited)

Many of us are being videotaped all day long at work, and as we walk around the city.  It's just a reality of today.

Also, let's be realistic - middle / high school kids are videotaping randomly in schools all over.  I'd rather just know I'm being taped officially.

And didn't we just complete a whole year of school on camera?

I don't think I'd object to cameras on the teacher's desk and on the classroom doors & halls.  I'm actually surprised if that's not already standard in some schools.  I know some schools did that in 2020-21 to enable concurrent virtual and in-person learning (so kids in quarantine or at-risk could keep up with the classroom).  If that makes some people quit, I'm sorry, but I don't think that should influence the policy one way or the other.  The classroom is nobody's private domain.  I'm camera shy, so I get that, but if it's part of the job, it's part of the job.

I also understand the concern about kids' privacy.  Though that wasn't apparently much of an excuse over the past year with online classes, even though that involved actual private homes.

Edited by SKL
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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

And who reviews this footage? 

In my case it's my employer. As it should be in the classroom, IMO, the parents who are entrusting their children's education to these teachers. I'm all for transparency. If there's nothing going on that shouldn't be what's the problem?  Sure some parents may complain about this or that and the video would serve to prove what actually happened.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Plum said:

They've been trying to legislate that in NV for special ed classrooms and busses since 2015. My school district has had multiple lawsuits brought on by parents of nonverbal special ed students where the school either covered up or failed to investigate abuse. I don't think it's going to happen if they can't even get them in special education classes. 

A couple of lawsuits have gone federal for ADA and civil rights violations.

In 2019, 3 8 and 9 yo special ed students were physically abused by a teacher. The school failed to investigate, discipline or follow up on allegations made by witnesses. The parents say that it was only after Child Protective Services started an investigation in September 2019 that Butuyan was removed from the school. But the parents say nobody — not the school district, school police or school administrators — notified them that their kids had been subjected to abuse or been identified as victims in the ongoing investigation. 

The Clark County district attorney’s office declined to prosecute Butuyan for six counts of battery on Oct. 21, 2019, citing insufficient evidence.

Due to their disabilities, the three students in this case are unable to verbally report all that they experienced at school, according to the lawsuit, and the full extent and duration of the abuse is unknown.

“When a public school district cannot even meet the lowest bar – to keep your kid physically safe while he’s at school – then the district has totally failed,” said Kara Karr, the mother of one of the students. “What happened to our son should never have happened, and Clark County School District cannot allow it to ever happen again.”

According to the lawsuit, the district and school administrators failed to comply with state law and district policies in documenting the abuse and reporting it in a timely manner.

The former school bus driver initially faced 41 counts but pleaded guilty in 2018 to one count each of sexual assault with a minor under 16 and lewdness with a child under 14. Prosecutors said surveillance video showed Banco sexually assaulting children who were 3 and 4 years old. He was sentenced to 35 years to life.

They had video cameras but no one checked why they bus would frequently be 30 minutes late. Having the video is good for proving your case after the fact, but there's no guarantee it will prevent abuse. 

https://districtadministration.com/cameras-in-special-ed-classrooms-school-surveillance/

 

 

But that doesn't stop some school districts in NV from deciding they want to do it. Lyon county put cameras in all classrooms.  They are connected to a silent alarm type system in cases of emergency only. Parents don't have access. 

Superintendent Wayne Workman says the system has an the audio function that "amplifies the voice of the teacher in the classroom so that all students will be able to hear the teacher's instruction at any given time in the classroom."

Along with a microphone, teachers will be expected to wear a necklace remote control that can trigger a silent alarm in case of an emergency. The classroom camera will immediately begin to record what is occurring in the classroom and send a live feed of that to an administrator. The administrator will decide whether it's appropriate to call emergency responders to the school.

The district also emphasizes that any video recording in an academic setting creates an academic record and is protected under the Family Educational Right to Privacy Act (FERPA); access to any videos recorded in emergencies would be limited to educational personnel designated as needing access. https://www.asumag.com/safety-security/cameras-surveillance/article/20853502/school-district-in-nevada-will-install-cameras-in-every-classroom

 

I do wonder who/what is preventing this from happening. The teacher's union would be my first guess.

I really don't understand how FERPA can restrict cameras. Cameras could be beneficial to those students that are absent for whatever reason, allow parents access, and provides cover for teachers as well should there be any question of what has been taught or has happened in the classroom. And cameras have been used throughout the pandemic in teacher's and children's private homes.

At least having the cameras in the classes for safety is a start. There does need to be access for review by parents/others that are not affiliated with the school board, teachers, or school system for accountability that what is being taught is appropriate and is the curriculum parents have been told would be implemented for all subjects. 

So thankful my kids are grown. This is the one good thing that I can think of that has come from the pandemic ..parents eyes have been opened to what is actually happening in their schools. I hope they won't give up the fight for transparency and accountability.

The school bus driver case is so completely sickening...further proof that expecting the school system to provide the video review/accountability is not acceptable! 

Edited by Fritz
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Posted (edited)

While I don't want to see cameras in every classroom, I am aware of cases of abuse at school that were only addressed after the parent sent their kids to school with recording devices on or when the abuse was caught on security cameras.  Special education students are especially vulnerable because the schools have the hardest time filling those jobs so often the people hired are the least qualified.  Plus, they are being hired to do an exceptionally challenging job that probably merits the most qualified and exceptional teachers. 

The teacher in the contained sped classroom we sued the district to keep my son out of? She was provisionally credentialed and was placed in charge of a classroom at first before she even had a *BA* when a Masters is the standard requirement here.  One of the reasons we sued was because I was aware of other lawsuits against the district over that teacher's classroom.  Yet, that teacher still has her job.  I wouldn't blame a parent for sending a camera if they were concerned about a child's safety.  

I can't get behind cameras for curriculum through.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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23 minutes ago, Fritz said:

In my case it's my employer. As it should be in the classroom, IMO, the parents who are entrusting their children's education to these teachers. I'm all for transparency. If there's nothing going on that shouldn't be what's the problem?  Sure some parents may complain about this or that and the video would serve to prove what actually happened.

Parents are not the "employers" of the teachers. Taxpayers in the school district elect school board officials who hire administrators who employ teachers. 

Schools are accountable to taxpayers but they are not acting in place of parents. 

I think that's a misunderstanding that so many people have WRT this debate. Schools should be providing a reasonable (fuzzy term, I know) education to their students. If a parent doesn't believe in evolution that doesn't mean that the parent can prevent their child from learning it. Evolution is accepted science therefore it should be taught to students. 

If you want to directly control every aspect of your child's education then homeschool without any public funds. 

The same can be said for any other public function. 

Some people have suggested on this forum that every parent should get to decide what their child learns. Okay - homeschool. How can any school manage that? It's absurd. Most schools allow parents to opt their children out sex education. I'm not sure how I feel about that but it's easy to administer. But those kids aren't immediately removed from the science classroom if reproduction comes up as a topic. 

Besides there's something very creepy about the idea of parents controlling everything their child learns. If you're sure that you're right, why so much fear about children being exposed to different ideas? Underlying that is the idea that the children are owned by their parents. That's not true. 

Also, society has an interest in ensuring that children are educated. 

 

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Like body cams on cops, the cameras would seem to be useful to protect the teacher at least as often as to implicate him/her.

I am sure it would be awkward at first to get used to having a camera on you all the time.  Same is true of anyone who has that situation at work.  But after the initial awkwardness, I think it should be a non-issue.  I mean, before you had dozens of kids and maybe an aide watching (and possibly recording) you all day.  Now you have all that plus a fixed camera.

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I have taught on camera, where parents can log in and watch the feed at any time. I have also taught with a roomful of college students on the other side of a mirror.  Usually at the same time, since this was in a University lab school program. 

 

And you know what? It really didn't change anything I did, even when I would have to walk in said room on the other side of the mirror and be peppered with questions from said students and explain WHY I did what I did. I actually often forgot that I had students there that day until I'd dismissed my lab class-and then it was like I shifted from "ECED music specialist mode" to "College ECED music professor mode". 

 

The fact is, with only a couple of exceptions, (there was one mom who would watch her son's music class over her lunch break and just plain thoroughly enjoyed it-she had done mommy and me classes when he was younger, and I think being able to watch his weekly school music class made her feel closer to him as he transitioned to kindergarten), most parents would log in, maybe, the first day or two or if there were some reason to think things might not be so great that day (like if a young child was crying and didn't want to go to their class in the preschool program, a parent might check to make sure they'd settled in so that the parent didn't worry, or if a child's behavior seemed a little "off", but they didn't have a fever, the teacher might e-mail the parent and ask if maybe they could peek in and see if they noticed anything odd. We also often did ask parents to observe, either on camera or behind the mirror, if there were issues that we felt might need a referral for assessment or were changes in behavior to get their input.  And honestly, while I've heard the "it's an invasion of privacy for the other children", I can't say parents ever seemed that concerned about any child but their own. (We did have a written privacy policy that included both parents observing in/participating in classes as volunteers AND via the camera, but again, I don't feel it was an issue). 

 

But in the main, having a camera present affected my teaching about as much as having security cameras in stores does. Which is to say, not at all.  And I can't say it seemed to affect the kids, either, at least not past the first few days (when usually they're on their best behavior anyway). 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, SKL said:

Like body cams on cops, the cameras would seem to be useful to protect the teacher at least as often as to implicate him/her.

I am sure it would be awkward at first to get used to having a camera on you all the time.  Same is true of anyone who has that situation at work.  But after the initial awkwardness, I think it should be a non-issue.  I mean, before you had dozens of kids and maybe an aide watching (and possibly recording) you all day.  Now you have all that plus a fixed camera.

I will also add an advantage. Normally, when a teacher is being evaluated, it means an administrator is physically in the room, which absolutely changes the behavior of the kids. Being able to watch through a camera (or, in a classroom set up for it, behind a mirror) means that the administrator gets to see much more of a normal day. Which in turn, makes it easier for the administrator to support said teacher. 

 

I have had a few situations where my college students were able to see things that, as the teacher, I'd missed (things like subtle interplay between kids)-and because THEY saw it, I could adapt accordingly. 

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15 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I will also add an advantage. Normally, when a teacher is being evaluated, it means an administrator is physically in the room, which absolutely changes the behavior of the kids. Being able to watch through a camera (or, in a classroom set up for it, behind a mirror) means that the administrator gets to see much more of a normal day. Which in turn, makes it easier for the administrator to support said teacher. 

 

I have had a few situations where my college students were able to see things that, as the teacher, I'd missed (things like subtle interplay between kids)-and because THEY saw it, I could adapt accordingly. 

Thanks for your perspective. 

I can see how it wouldn't make much difference. But putting up cameras in light of the recent bills is troubling. 

The bill that was introduced in AZ (thankfully did not pass) imposed a large fine on teachers. I can see how a large fine and cameras would make teachers afraid to even discuss certain subjects. 

I'm also very troubled by the idea that public school teachers are essentially working for the parents who should watching every second. I think that idea is underlying much of this debate. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Cameras themselves don't change what people do. The outrage that results from the exposure of what people see, however benign or severe, does. Cameras can indict and exonerate but they also allow for the doxxing and harassment of people doing their jobs. The Florida ban creates a carveout from existing consent/privacy and recording laws for the recording/release of video, by anyone in a classroom (K-12 or higher ed), for the express purpose of 'exposing' anything the individual recording deems suspect. You can attend and sit in on any class just to film without restriction, no need to enroll or even be connected to the institution and no need to demonstrate you're not a registered sex offender, nothing. I would not be opposed to recordings for school/district oversight and management purposes provided the personal privacy of students, faculty and staff is maintained. I do not support opening classrooms to any/all 'interested' persons in the community. That, based on current legislation/law, seems to be the goal.

Edited by Sneezyone
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I don't think parents should necessarily have access to viewing, but I think it could be very helpful in finding the "truth" behind a conflict or accusation. Classrooms are students' vs teachers' stories. If there's a problem that crops up, the cameras solve the problem. If a school gets enough complaints about a teacher teaching something controversial, the administration could look into it. A child says a teacher brushed his hand against her chest, it's easy to see if it happened or not. A student accuses another of stealing (happened to my kid) you'll be able to see it. That's how I think cameras in the classroom would be valuable. I'm not sure it'd be a good idea for every parent to have access to it "live". 

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3 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

[...Old enough to remember when the rapid-disseminating outrage du jour was on behalf of children being snatched by strangers from Walmart and trafficked;

puzzling over how that fits with today's rapid-disseminating clarion call for cameras in every classroom....]

Funny how that works.

5 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

I don't think parents should necessarily have access to viewing, but I think it could be very helpful in finding the "truth" behind a conflict or accusation. Classrooms are students' vs teachers' stories. If there's a problem that crops up, the cameras solve the problem. If a school gets enough complaints about a teacher teaching something controversial, the administration could look into it. A child says a teacher brushed his hand against her chest, it's easy to see if it happened or not. A student accuses another of stealing (happened to my kid) you'll be able to see it. That's how I think cameras in the classroom would be valuable. I'm not sure it'd be a good idea for every parent to have access to it "live". 

DD had a sub in 8th grade Algebra (election season) that said that the U.S. was building a wall to keep out illegal immigrants, that southern border immigrants should be separated from their kids, essentially admitted to being a Trump supporter and asked, “Why does that matter?" when confronted by another student. Turns out, I was one of several parents who complained. The sub was removed from the school's list of acceptable substitutes. No cameras were necessary. Just a group of parents whose kids all reported the same thing. These were all NT kids tho.

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20 minutes ago, whitestavern said:

I don't think parents should necessarily have access to viewing, but I think it could be very helpful in finding the "truth" behind a conflict or accusation. Classrooms are students' vs teachers' stories. If there's a problem that crops up, the cameras solve the problem. If a school gets enough complaints about a teacher teaching something controversial, the administration could look into it. A child says a teacher brushed his hand against her chest, it's easy to see if it happened or not. A student accuses another of stealing (happened to my kid) you'll be able to see it. That's how I think cameras in the classroom would be valuable. I'm not sure it'd be a good idea for every parent to have access to it "live". 

In my state, all the school buses have cameras for just this purpose. The footage is only looked at if there's an issue, but it's dead useful to have if there's an issue.

*Totally* different, to my mind, than routinely livestreaming kids in class. The privacy and security concerns boggle the mind

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6 hours ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Is this a joke? Seriously? I know people are suggesting this but I assumed it was just trolling because it's such a ridiculous idea. 

I thought it was trolling as well, given the pattern, but from the chime-ins, is this something being talked about in the media currently in conjunction with CRT somehow?

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1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

I have taught on camera, where parents can log in and watch the feed at any time. I have also taught with a roomful of college students on the other side of a mirror.  Usually at the same time, since this was in a University lab school program. 

 

And you know what? It really didn't change anything I did, even when I would have to walk in said room on the other side of the mirror and be peppered with questions from said students and explain WHY I did what I did. I actually often forgot that I had students there that day until I'd dismissed my lab class-and then it was like I shifted from "ECED music specialist mode" to "College ECED music professor mode". 

 

The fact is, with only a couple of exceptions, (there was one mom who would watch her son's music class over her lunch break and just plain thoroughly enjoyed it-she had done mommy and me classes when he was younger, and I think being able to watch his weekly school music class made her feel closer to him as he transitioned to kindergarten), most parents would log in, maybe, the first day or two or if there were some reason to think things might not be so great that day (like if a young child was crying and didn't want to go to their class in the preschool program, a parent might check to make sure they'd settled in so that the parent didn't worry, or if a child's behavior seemed a little "off", but they didn't have a fever, the teacher might e-mail the parent and ask if maybe they could peek in and see if they noticed anything odd. We also often did ask parents to observe, either on camera or behind the mirror, if there were issues that we felt might need a referral for assessment or were changes in behavior to get their input.  And honestly, while I've heard the "it's an invasion of privacy for the other children", I can't say parents ever seemed that concerned about any child but their own. (We did have a written privacy policy that included both parents observing in/participating in classes as volunteers AND via the camera, but again, I don't feel it was an issue). 

 

But in the main, having a camera present affected my teaching about as much as having security cameras in stores does. Which is to say, not at all.  And I can't say it seemed to affect the kids, either, at least not past the first few days (when usually they're on their best behavior anyway). 

 

 

This would be my expectation exactly. If you are not teaching anything you shouldn't be or doing anything you should not be doing, what's the worry? I have worked under cameras for years. I rarely think about them. 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, KSera said:

I thought it was trolling as well, given the pattern, but from the chime-ins, is this something being talked about in the media currently in conjunction with CRT somehow?

Recording is, literally, written into the FL law so, yeah, its something people are talking about. Specifically, Tuckums. You can almost draw a straight line from his outrage of the day to what gets brought up here.

Edited by Sneezyone
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1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

Recording is, literally, written into the FL law so, yeah, its something people are talking about. Specifically, Tuckums.

I got the vibe it was something like that. Especially since OP hardly participated in the thread once it got going, and then returned weeks later to post this to this particular thread.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, KSera said:

I got the vibe it was something like that. Especially since OP hardly participated in the thread once it got going, and then returned weeks later to post this to this particular thread.

He discussed putting cameras in every classroom on 7/6. It appeared here 48 hours later. If it's good enough for cops, he argued, it's good enough for teachers. Never mind that teachers aren't empowered by the state to kill people.

Edited by Sneezyone
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Everyone's lost their minds. 

No, you can't put all teachers on camera for parents to view. Nope. 

No, you can't read read-alouds to your Kindy kids that tells the white ones they've signed a deal with the devil. 

How hard is this? 

On the pro-side, reel in your bad actors and resources. Show concerned parents how and why this education benefits their child. Get data and evidence for efficiacy the usual way - in trials. Be open to other methods of presenting similar ideas.

On the anti-side, if privately schooling, remove your $ from the school. Use existing complaint procedures. Call the board to account. Argue for transparency. Ask for the data/evidence for efficiacy. Write letters. Lobby. 

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, KSera said:

I thought it was trolling as well, given the pattern, but from the chime-ins, is this something being talked about in the media currently in conjunction with CRT somehow?

It's serious in the sense that they are actually proposing it but it's trolling in a way. 

Matt Walsh is pushing for it and everything he does is about trolling. 

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1 hour ago, Fritz said:

This would be my expectation exactly. If you are not teaching anything you shouldn't be or doing anything you should not be doing, what's the worry? I have worked under cameras for years. I rarely think about them. 

I’d be worried about who is watching the kids in class. Being a parent sadly doesn’t equate to not being a creep/perv.  Having footage there if needed is one thing but have it available to all parents in schools 24/7 is another.

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The issue went national b/c of the media attention and network of like-minded people who write, propose, introduce and pass model legislation. We’re not discussing it here and now b/c it’s a grass roots issue that’s bubbled up.

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59 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Everyone's lost their minds. 

No, you can't put all teachers on camera for parents to view. Nope. 

No, you can't read read-alouds to your Kindy kids that tells the white ones they've signed a deal with the devil. 

How hard is this? 

On the pro-side, reel in your bad actors and resources. Show concerned parents how and why this education benefits their child. Get data and evidence for efficiacy the usual way - in trials. Be open to other methods of presenting similar ideas.

On the anti-side, if privately schooling, remove your $ from the school. Use existing complaint procedures. Call the board to account. Argue for transparency. Ask for the data/evidence for efficiacy. Write letters. Lobby. 

 

 

 

 

Is the bolded referencing the Not My Idea book?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Fritz said:

In my case it's my employer. As it should be in the classroom, IMO, the parents who are entrusting their children's education to these teachers. I'm all for transparency. If there's nothing going on that shouldn't be what's the problem?  Sure some parents may complain about this or that and the video would serve to prove what actually happened.

I take it you haven't taught many classes. The assumption that most parents are reasonable about their kids is touchingly naive. 

I'm not indoctrinating any kids. I teach math. And I would NOT be willing to be livestreamed, period. 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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17 minutes ago, Plum said:

Since it was a parents advocate group in my state that proposed it, I had heard of it earlier than that…about as long as this thread has been going? If I look it up NV Family Alliance made news June 10th with the body cam idea which was around the same time the Washoe School District out out their sample social justice curriculum and they asked for parents input.  

https://news.yahoo.com/nevada-group-proposes-forcing-teachers-120644105.html

Plus it’s been a topic in my local news for years because of those special ed abuse cases. 

The world's gone topsy-turvy. How is it that conservatives have been so widely embracing ideas antithetical to conservatism lately? It's wild.

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16 minutes ago, KSera said:

The world's gone topsy-turvy. How is it that conservatives have been so widely embracing ideas antithetical to conservatism lately? It's wild.

Shh...they were never conservative to begin with. It was about power and authoritarianism. 

How much do you want to bet that these people will be "just asking questions" about the wrong kind of homeschoolers soon? 

Actually it's about the ethics in gaming journalism...

Uh huh. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

they were never conservative to begin with. It was about power and authoritarianism. 

While I think that’s true for some of them (and that “some” is a MUCH bigger number than it used to be), I don’t actually think that’s what it used to be about for probably the majority. But, I think many who didn’t used to be of that ilk have been gradually brought down that path by virtue of who they’re listening to, and they have gone from A to C gradually without realizing what was happening to them. 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, KSera said:

The world's gone topsy-turvy. How is it that conservatives have been so widely embracing ideas antithetical to conservatism lately? It's wild.

How is it that many former liberals have become so keen on authoritarianism in the cultural space?  Why have they ditched class politics for identity politics? Why do they now mock free speech? Why is it 'trust the science' and on particular issues, they're throwing out science for gibberish ideology? 

It's the same question. 

 

Edited by Melissa Louise
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New law in Arizona. Was my kid ever exposed to CRT in an Arizona school? No. But a teacher told her that the Civil War might not have been about slavery. Another teacher told her that the wildfires in Australia were caused by arson. 

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm not indoctrinating any kids. I teach math. And I would NOT be willing to be livestreamed, period. 

So if you worked at my kids' friends' school, which livestreamed all of its 2020-21 classes in order to provide distance learning to kids at home for illness-related reasons, you would have quit your job?

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10 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

How is it that many former liberals have become so keen on authoritarianism in the cultural space?  Why have they ditched class politics for identity politics? Why do they now mock free speech? Why is it 'trust the science' and on particular issues, they're throwing out science for gibberish ideology? 

It's the same question. 

 

🤷‍♀️ I don’t know. It’s a good question. I don’t identify on either end of the spectrum, so I don’t have answers for these things. Being in the US, I see issues happening on both sides, but from a long term country-stability point of view, the issues on one side are a lot more alarming to me right now than those on the other. Some issues on the left are alarming for different reasons, but they don’t make me fear for my country as a whole. I see them as more temporary. More like naive thinking where they think they’re doing the right thing, but when it becomes clear they are not, I think they are likely to change their ways. But, I always have tended to be overly optimistic like that 😉

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2 hours ago, KSera said:

🤷‍♀️ I don’t know. It’s a good question. I don’t identify on either end of the spectrum, so I don’t have answers for these things. Being in the US, I see issues happening on both sides, but from a long term country-stability point of view, the issues on one side are a lot more alarming to me right now than those on the other. Some issues on the left are alarming for different reasons, but they don’t make me fear for my country as a whole. I see them as more temporary. More like naive thinking where they think they’re doing the right thing, but when it becomes clear they are not, I think they are likely to change their ways. But, I always have tended to be overly optimistic like that 😉

There’s also a fundamental misunderstanding of the ‘class’ distinctions in the US. Hallmarks of ‘liberalism’ and ‘class’, like unions, routinely excluded people based on gender and racial identities. Our social security law deliberately excluded domestic workers too, in no small part because of their gender and racial identities. Inclusion, given stretched resources and opportunities, threatened the meager benefits those circumscribed classes had/have. Identity consciousness is NOT a new phenomenon. It has never been abandoned. It simply increases in significance when the risk of scarcity and/or sharing with others becomes more real. Politicians unsurprisingly discovered they could exploit those realities to drive a wedge between people with similar economic situations by emphasizing cultural differences. It’s very effective. Divide and conquer is as old as time. This piece, written by Booker T. Washington in 1913 a (CONSERVATIVE) black scholar, is but one example of how identity/cultural politics/enmity and economic issues have long been intertwined. Authoritarianism has always been ok so long as it was in defense of the right people and deployed against the wrong people. There are many, many examples of this. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/529524/

Edited by Sneezyone
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5 minutes ago, KSera said:

🤷‍♀️ I don’t know. It’s a good question. I don’t identify on either end of the spectrum, so I don’t have answers for these things. Being in the US, I see issues happening on both sides, but from a long term country-stability point of view, the issues on one side are a lot more alarming to me right now than those on the other. Some issues on the left are alarming for different reasons, but they don’t make me fear for my country as a whole. I see them as more temporary. More like naive thinking where they think they’re doing the right thing, but when it becomes clear they are not, I think they are likely to change their ways. But, I always have tended to be overly optimistic like that 😉

I'm not so optimistic, and it's not as if I think the other side have the answers either. 

I think it's a form of American fracture that's spreading across the West. Downfall of an Empire type thing. 

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I don’t like the body cam comparison to of police officers to teachers.  Body cams for teachers or having all classes on camera all the time would just be one more way of making our schools feel that much more like jails.  School to prison pipeline.  Feels very, very wrong to me.  

Edited by LucyStoner
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1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

How is it that many former liberals have become so keen on authoritarianism in the cultural space?  Why have they ditched class politics for identity politics? Why do they now mock free speech? Why is it 'trust the science' and on particular issues, they're throwing out science for gibberish ideology? 

It's the same question. 

 

This. So much this!! If there were a standing ovation icon rather than the trophy I would give it to you!!

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2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I’d be worried about who is watching the kids in class. Being a parent sadly doesn’t equate to not being a creep/perv.  Having footage there if needed is one thing but have it available to all parents in schools 24/7 is another.

This went on for over a year with remote schooling. The teacher's union fought tooth and nail to continue with remote learning via cameras rather than return to the classroom. Now they've been found out by the parents from those zoom lessons what was actually being taught (and not just CRT) and they suddenly care about "privacy".

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52 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

I don’t like the body cam comparison to of police officers to teachers.  Body cams for teachers or having all classes on camera all the time would just be one more way of making our schools feel that much more like jails.  School to prison pipeline.  Feels very, very wrong to me.  

I am not suggesting body cams for teachers. The cameras I work under are mounted on the ceilings. Students would not notice them any more than they notice the cameras in stores etc..

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1 hour ago, KSera said:

The world's gone topsy-turvy. How is it that conservatives have been so widely embracing ideas antithetical to conservatism lately? It's wild.

Honestly, I’m not sure either side is very good at consistency or sticking to principles. 

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23 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

https://www.newsweek.com/misguided-argument-against-bans-teaching-critical-race-theory-opinion-1607753

French et. al omitted the crucial words "an individual should" and then assigned an entirely foreign meaning to the statute they attacked. The Tennessee bill simply does not say what they claim: that schools may not teach lessons that make students feel uncomfortable. It says that schools may not teach lessons that include or promote the concept that students should feel uncomfortable simply due to their race. It would not prohibit teaching about Jim Crow just because some white kids might feel bad after learning undisputed facts. It would prohibit teaching Robin DiAngelo, or similar authors, who make the racist and demoralizing argument that "white identity is inherently racist."

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