Ohio offering financial incentive including full ride scholarship for vaccination; also ending most health orders June 2nd

[Bootsie]

9 hours ago, KSera said:

Like I said, I hadn’t looked up the survey itself. Seeing the breakdown, it doesn’t look as unbalanced as only 22% Republican made it sound. A little, but not much. Now I’m curious to see what the current breakdown of US adults by political affiliation is. 

I am not sure why you said the statistics are screwy and don't show what I said, when I went right by the actual numbers provided; When I provide a detailed account you say that it was a strangely chsoen survey.  But, you hadn't even looked at the survey itself.  But, you had nto even looked at the survey.  These are exactly the types of conclusions that it concerns me that people are drawing. 

You can NOT jump from the fact that those who are Republican (and answer phone surveys) are disporportionately likely to say they won't vaccinate compared to Democrats (who answer phone surveys) to the fact that the majority of the people who chose not to vaccinate are Republican (or even a step further that they are Trump supporters).  

[Bootsie]

4 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Because they polled more non republicans. 

That doesn't change what percentage of each group will vaccinate or not. 

No it doesn't.  And I never said it did.  But, I have said that it does NOT indicate that the majority of the people who do not vaccinate are Republican.  They polled more non-Republicans because there are more non-Republicans in the country than Republicans.  

[HeartString]

47 minutes ago, Pen said:

It would be true, but might be correlation not causation. 

I don’t really thinking being Republicans is causing them not to get it, after all most Republicans are vaccinated or are willing to be eventually.  I’m sure it’s other parts of that identity, less trust in government, thinking the virus was no big deal, feeling protected by living more rurally.  
It does tell you how to “market” the vaccine though.  Baseball players, NASCAR, evangelical leaders, speaking to individualism, Fox News people talking about it.  Whatever Coca Cola would do to improve market share in that population.  

Edited May 16, 2021 by HeartString

[HeartString]

7 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

 

You can NOT jump from the fact that those who are Republican (and answer phone surveys) are disporportionately likely to say they won't vaccinate compared to Democrats (who answer phone surveys) to the fact that the majority of the people who chose not to vaccinate are Republican (or even a step further that they are Trump supporters).  

Isn’t that what polling does though? Use a small portion of the population to extrapolate about the larger population? 
 

What conclusions would you draw from this poll?  What about when combined with the 5 others were linked showing roughly the same thing? 

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, HeartString said:

I think I’m reading the stat differently than you are. 

 I don’t read it as saying most Republicans are against the vaccine or are unvaccinated. That isn’t true and I know that.  The stats show that clearly.  

I read it as saying that of those people who say they will never get vaccinated,  Republicans make up a large share of that group that includes a very diverse swath of the population.  

 

If I have 20 people, 10 Democrats and 10 Republicans.  If 15 are willing to get vaccinated and that is made up of 8 Democrats and 7 Republicans, then most of Republicans are willing to get vaccinated.  It would also be true that most of the unwilling (2 Democrats and 3 Republicans) are Republicans.  (Numbers totally made up, obviously). 

But, these totally made up numbers do not align with what the polls are saying.  If you want to take the polls seriously when it says that someone who reports being Republican they are less likely to vaccinate than someone who reports Demodrat then it is logical to take the rest of the poll seriously.  I am consistently seeing the problem as people are being divided 50/50 Republican/Democrat, but that does NOT align with the population (or the surveys).  You cannot take the percentage or Republicans who say something and then extrapolate that to 50% of the population.  You draw incorrect conclusions when you do.  

Not only is this a misuse of the statistics I think it fuels the "us verses them" mentality.  I don't think it leaves us in a clear-headed stated to actually communicate with those are are vaccine hesitant.  It is easy to just see them as a group that is classified in a way that is villanized.  

[Bootsie]

2 minutes ago, HeartString said:

Isn’t that what polling does though? Use a small portion of the population to extrapolate about the larger population? 
 

What conclusions would you draw from this poll?  What about when combined with the 5 others were linked showing roughly the same thing? 

Yes, you extrapolate to the larger population based upon the sample relative to the population.  In doing so you must weight the Republicans with their relative weight in the population.    

The poll says:

Republicans are less likely to choose to vaccinate than Democrats or Independents.

Most who choose to vaccinate are NOT Republican.

 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, HeartString said:

I think I’m reading the stat differently than you are. 

 I don’t read it as saying most Republicans are against the vaccine or are unvaccinated. That isn’t true and I know that.  The stats show that clearly.  

I read it as saying that of those people who say they will never get vaccinated,  Republicans make up a large share of that group that includes a very diverse swath of the population.  

 

If I have 20 people, 10 Democrats and 10 Republicans.  If 15 are willing to get vaccinated and that is made up of 8 Democrats and 7 Republicans, then most of Republicans are willing to get vaccinated.  It would also be true that most of the unwilling (2 Democrats and 3 Republicans) are Republicans.  (Numbers totally made up, obviously). 

I'm not reading it differently. I am trying to explain why some Republicans would be offended by the stat--some Republicans are vaccinating and surrounded by other Republicans that are vaccinating. Some Republicans are not vaccinating and are surrounded by other Republicans not vaccinating. Some groups have more of a mix. If you are in a Republican group of friends/live in a locality where people are vaccinating, you probably get tired of hearing how your group is vaccine hesitant.

I will also throw out age--in my circle, it's the people over 60 that tend to mask and vaccinate even if they think it's political. Younger ages are mixed--some complain greatly about the masking but vaccinate and mask, and some mask but attend anti-masking rallies and recruit people to efforts to strip emergency powers, etc., (some won't mask, but many do only because it's law). Apparently a few are not anti-vaccine, but the governor's lottery is enough to make them declare we're living in The Hunger Games. If I were vaccinating, and all my friends were vaccinating, I would not want to be lumped in with The Hunger Games crowd, lol! (I am politically homeless, a conservative by pre-2016 standards.) And to be clear, I am vaccinated, and my family is as vaccinated as is currently possible.

I think which group you fall into would dictate whether you find the statistic offensive or not--people feel like statistics are manipulated when they go against their own experience.

Edited May 16, 2021 by kbutton
clarity

[Bootsie]

6 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I'm not reading it differently. I am trying to explain why some Republicans would be offended by the stat--some Republicans are vaccinating and surrounded by other Republicans that are vaccinating. Some Republicans are not vaccinating and are surrounded by other Republicans not vaccinating. Some groups have more of a mix. If you are in a Republican group of friends/live in a locality where people are vaccinating, you probably get tired of hearing how your group is vaccine hesitant.

I will also throw out age--in my circle, it's the people over 60 that tend to mask and vaccinate even if they think it's political. Younger ages are mixed--some complain greatly about the masking but vaccinate and mask, and some mask but attend anti-masking rallies and recruit people to efforts to strip emergency powers, etc., and they won't mask. Apparently a few are not anti-vaccine, but the governor's lottery is enough to make them declare we're living in The Hunger Games. If I was vaccinating, and all my friends were vaccinating, I would not want to be lumped in with The Hunger Games crowd, lol! (I am politically homeless, formerly a conservative.)

I think which group you fall into would dictate whether you find the statistic offensive or not--people feel like statistics are manipulated when they go against their own experience.

I am curious as to why you would find a statistic offensive.  It is simply a fact.  It is a fact that Republicans, as a group, are more vaccine hesitant.

 I can see how someone could find what is done with that statistic offensive--by characterizing anyone as a Republican as someone who is vaccine hesitant.  Or by assuming someone who is not vaccinated is Republican, because the statistics show that the majority of those who are not vaccinated are not Republican.  

[kbutton]

11 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I am curious as to why you would find a statistic offensive.  It is simply a fact.  It is a fact that Republicans, as a group, are more vaccine hesitant.

 I can see how someone could find what is done with that statistic offensive--by characterizing anyone as a Republican as someone who is vaccine hesitant.  Or by assuming someone who is not vaccinated is Republican, because the statistics show that the majority of those who are not vaccinated are not Republican.  

I am not personally offended by the stat. I can see how people would be offended by what is done with the stat and was trying to explain why. I do think that some people will find the statistic to be so different from experience that they will be offended or feel like the statistic must represent bad polling or an agenda. 

[Pen]

42 minutes ago, HeartString said:

I don’t really thinking being Republicans is causing them not to get it, after all most Republicans are vaccinated or are willing to be eventually.  I’m sure it’s other parts of that identity, less trust in government, thinking the virus was no big deal, feeling protected by living more rurally.  
It does tell you how to “market” the vaccine though.  Baseball players, NASCAR, evangelical leaders, speaking to individualism, Fox News people talking about it.  Whatever Coca Cola would do to improve market share in that population.  

How would you feel if it were the opposite being discussed? 

[HeartString]

17 minutes ago, Pen said:

How would you feel if it were the opposite being discussed? 

If it were Democrats that I felt needed to be persuaded or marketed too?  Well… it’s advertising. Biden, Fauci, ads on left leaning podcasts and news outlets. I get advertisements all the time. Public health messaging is no different than Coke or Lays. The advertise not drinking and driving or not leaving kids and pets in hot cars.  Vaccines are public health.  I guess it doesn’t bother me.  
 

Everyone knows Facebook and YouTube use micro-targeting to get advertisements to just the right people.  If you are a cat-owning Pepsi drinking person you see different ads than dog owning coke drinkers.  It’s been that way for years.  Why would vaccine info be different?  🤷‍♀️

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

I am not sure why you said the statistics are screwy and don't show what I said, when I went right by the actual numbers provided; When I provide a detailed account you say that it was a strangely chsoen survey.  But, you hadn't even looked at the survey itself.  But, you had nto even looked at the survey.  These are exactly the types of conclusions that it concerns me that people are drawing. 

 

 

52 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

The poll says:

Republicans are less likely to choose to vaccinate than Democrats or Independents.

Most who choose to vaccinate are NOT Republican.

 

Right. We agree on this (although the statistics shift when a poll divides further into “left leaning independents” and “right leaning independents” rather than lumping them together, making independents the biggest group). I clearly said I hadn’t looked up the survey (it wasn’t linked and as I’ve said, I actually have less than zero interest in encouraging the “Republicans won’t vaccinate” story, because I think it becomes self-fulfilling). I wasn’t drawing any conclusions. I was just commenting based on your bolded statement that 2/3 of those who won’t vaccinate are not Republican. It may be accurate, but it’s an example of the kind of use of statistics that is frequently purposely manipulated to make things seem to the casual reader as they are not. I think most readers would read that and think that that means Republicans are actually not less likely to vaccinate then Democrats or independents. Surely we know at this point that in general, Americans are not great at understanding studies or math or probabilities, and most are not going to notice that Republicans are disproportionately represented among those who will not vaccinate, which means that Republicans as a group are less likely to vaccinate than Democrats or Independents. 

 

[Dmmetler]

35 minutes ago, Pen said:

How would you feel if it were the opposite being discussed? 

The same is true in marketing anything. My senior has gotten pounds and pounds of mail and thousands of e-mails marketing schools over the last few years. Some worked, at least enough to get an application in. Some totally missed the boat, and turned my teen off, but might be great for another teen. Same applies here. 

 

 There were people who were actively refreshing at midnight to get a vaccine appointment three months ago, and had teens who wanted an appointment the first day their age groups were vaccinated. Obviously, current information/marketing worked. I suspect scarcity also helped. If you are someone who wants to be the first on your block to do anything, you had an incentive to get vaccinated that way. 

 

Others might not go out of their way, but take a walk in, no appointment needed shot if it is offered, or if there is a call on the intercom while grocery shopping. 

 

Others might show up for a vaccine event with swag sponsored by a sports team, or at their church, or might be willing to get vaccinated for a chance to become a millionaire or win a car (my county is doing the latter). 

 

Others will do it if it lets them get on an airplane or cruise ship. 

 

Others will vaccinate if their kids have to be vaccinated to go to camp or school, and will get it then even if they wouldn't seek it out for themselves. 

 

And yes, some will get vaccinated if it lets them stop wearing a mask and are too honest to lie, even to themselves. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bootsie]

2 hours ago, KSera said:

 

Right. We agree on this (although the statistics shift when a poll divides further into “left leaning independents” and “right leaning independents” rather than lumping them together, making independents the biggest group). I clearly said I hadn’t looked up the survey (it wasn’t linked and as I’ve said, I actually have less than zero interest in encouraging the “Republicans won’t vaccinate” story, because I think it becomes self-fulfilling). I wasn’t drawing any conclusions. I was just commenting based on your bolded statement that 2/3 of those who won’t vaccinate are not Republican. It may be accurate, but it’s an example of the kind of use of statistics that is frequently purposely manipulated to make things seem to the casual reader as they are not. I think most readers would read that and think that that means Republicans are actually not less likely to vaccinate then Democrats or independents. Surely we know at this point that in general, Americans are not great at understanding studies or math or probabilities, and most are not going to notice that Republicans are disproportionately represented among those who will not vaccinate, which means that Republicans as a group are less likely to vaccinate than Democrats or Independents. 

 

My statement was a true and acurate statement.  I was not using the statistics for anything.  So, it is not an example of the use of statistics in any way.  

Ironically, I was pointing out that people were misinterpreting statistics.  I was not using statsitcis to manipulate.  I would prefer people to know the truth; what the actual numbers are.  Yes, it is a problem if people don't have an understanding of math or probabilities. But the problem is not the fact.  I don't think it helps when people actual do the math correctly and state the fact to have someone state their statistics are screwy.  I also do not think it helps to respond to someone who has taken the time to inform themselves of what the actual study was to make a statement that it was a strangely chosen survey based upon simple opinion (with no basis in fact because you do not want to take the time to inform yourself of the survey.)  If we are to have intelligent discourse it should be based on fact, not hiding facts.

Personally, I do not think someone's party affiliation on a voter registration card is what is casuing them to choose not to be vaccinated.  I think there are some philosopical issues.  I think labelling it as a Republican issue does not really address the problems and is polarizing.  I have not heard a single person say "I am a Republican so I am not vaccinating"  I have heard a lot claim "They are not vaccinating which shows they are a Republican, Trump supporter" or "They are a Republican so that means they are the ones not vaccinating and preventing us from reaching heard immunity."  I don't support that type of characterization and I don't think the statistics back that kind of statement or logic.  

[Frances]

16 hours ago, HeartString said:

I’m not sure why this fact seems to bother people. I don’t get it.

I’m guessing it bothers people more who are either Trump voters and/or Republicans, but not anti-vax. So they have something in common with these people, but don’t share their views on vaccines and don’t want to be grouped together with anti-vaxers.

[Frances]

16 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I don't know of anyone that fact bothers (maybe there are some who it does), but it is important to interpret that fact for what it is worth.  The fact is that the majority of the people who are vaccine hesitant are NOT Republicans.  So, characterizing the group of people who are vaccine hesitant as Trump supporters or Republicans is not an accurate characterization--most are not.  

Do we know the majority aren’t Trump voters? Certainly Trump got more than just Republican votes.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/17/us/vaccine-hesitancy-politics.html

Edited May 16, 2021 by Frances

[Pen]

3 hours ago, HeartString said:

If it were Democrats that I felt needed to be persuaded or marketed too?  Well… it’s advertising. Biden, Fauci, ads on left leaning podcasts and news outlets. I get advertisements all the time. Public health messaging is no different than Coke or Lays. The advertise not drinking and driving or not leaving kids and pets in hot cars.  Vaccines are public health.  I guess it doesn’t bother me.  
 

Everyone knows Facebook and YouTube use micro-targeting to get advertisements to just the right people.  If you are a cat-owning Pepsi drinking person you see different ads than dog owning coke drinkers.  It’s been that way for years.  Why would vaccine info be different?  🤷‍♀️

I was thinking if people were trying to advertise to you something you thought dangerous. But then, when you mention Coke and Lays I guess that does happen for most people fairly often!   And fast food, tobacco, alcohol, etc all get heavy advertising, And I guess the CDC was once active in promoting and advertising DDT too.  So I guess yes, long history.   Personally, it usually turns me off.  But I guess it works well for most or they would not do It. 

[Paige]

I'm not anti vax or a Trump supporter and I wish as many people as possible would get one of the vaccines but I'm a little uncomfortable with paying people to get one. Having a lottery is too close to that and maybe worse. It seems a little coercive and the people who would be the most persuaded by monetary incentives against their better judgments would be people with less money, less influence, less power, etc. I don't like it. I would rather persuade people with education about the safety of the vaccines and by social influences. It's kind of like paying people for kidneys...the most vulnerable would be the most inclined to take the risks. 

It's easy for me to say- but there's very little risk with the vaccines! And I believe that to be true, but that doesn't remove my ethical qualms about situations like this. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Paige

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

The same is true in marketing anything. My senior has gotten pounds and pounds of mail and thousands of e-mails marketing schools over the last few years. Some worked, at least enough to get an application in. Some totally missed the boat, and turned my teen off, but might be great for another teen. Same applies here. 

 

 There were people who were actively refreshing at midnight to get a vaccine appointment three months ago, and had teens who wanted an appointment the first day their age groups were vaccinated. Obviously, current information/marketing worked. I suspect scarcity also helped. If you are someone who wants to be the first on your block to do anything, you had an incentive to get vaccinated that way. 

 

Others might not go out of their way, but take a walk in, no appointment needed shot if it is offered, or if there is a call on the intercom while grocery shopping. 

 

Others might show up for a vaccine event with swag sponsored by a sports team, or at their church, or might be willing to get vaccinated for a chance to become a millionaire or win a car (my county is doing the latter). 

 

Others will do it if it lets them get on an airplane or cruise ship. 

 

Others will vaccinate if their kids have to be vaccinated to go to camp or school, and will get it then even if they wouldn't seek it out for themselves. 

 

And yes, some will get vaccinated if it lets them stop wearing a mask and are too honest to lie, even to themselves. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you are probably right

i guess some will find the sweepstakes and college tuition type approaches very influential. 
 

I find it disturbing. But that’s at least part because I am concerned about the experimental vaccines turning out to not be safe. 
 

I might not be as disturbed by having jackpot or other significant financial incentives if I weren’t concerned about the vaccines themselves.   

Edited May 16, 2021 by Pen

[Bootsie]

3 minutes ago, Frances said:

Do we know the majority aren’t Trump supporters? Certainly Trump got more than just Republican votes.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/04/17/us/vaccine-hesitancy-politics.html

I don't think we have anything to base a conclusion on.  The statistics indicate that the majority of those who are choosing not to vaccinate are not Republicans.  Then, I think it depends upon how you define "Trump supporter."  Is that simply someone who voted for Trump?  (I know people who voted for Trump as a lesser of two evils or who were voting against Biden but would never consider themselves a Trump supporter.)  So, I so no basis for concluding that the majority of those who are choosing to to vaccinate are Trump supporters; in every situation I have seen someone make that claim they are starting with a statistic, then misinterpreting it, and then making a logical leap. 

I can't get to the article you linked, so I don't know what it says.  

[Frances]

3 hours ago, Pen said:

How would you feel if it were the opposite being discussed? 

I’m always surprised by this type of question, as I don’t get why people are bothered unless they feel guilty about their association with a particular group. If people make incorrect assumptions about me because they know I vote a particular way, for example, it doesn’t bother me at all because I know it’s not true.

[HeartString]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

you are probably right

i guess some will find the sweepstakes and college tuition type approaches very influential. 

I don’t love the idea of the sweepstakes or scholarships but I’m ok with low key incentives.  Free Shipley’s donuts, a free beer voucher in front of a bar, a souvenir cup at a concert.  Somewhere is giving away $100 and that feels a bit much but not extravagant.  More than that makes me uncomfortable.  

[Frances]

1 minute ago, Bootsie said:

I don't think we have anything to base a conclusion on.  The statistics indicate that the majority of those who are choosing not to vaccinate are not Republicans.  Then, I think it depends upon how you define "Trump supporter."  Is that simply someone who voted for Trump?  (I know people who voted for Trump as a lesser of two evils or who were voting against Biden but would never consider themselves a Trump supporter.)  So, I so no basis for concluding that the majority of those who are choosing to to vaccinate are Trump supporters; in every situation I have seen someone make that claim they are starting with a statistic, then misinterpreting it, and then making a logical leap. 

I can't get to the article you linked, so I don't know what it says.  

Yes, I should have said Trump voter, not Trump supporter. I agree we can’t say the majority of those not getting vaccines are Republicans (even though as a group they are more opposed to the vaccine), but as the article describes, counties that went for Trump, especially by wide margins, generally have lower vaccine rates. It also points out that politics seem to play more of a role as the vaccine becomes available to younger and younger people. There is more of a political divide among younger people than older people.

[HeartString]

15 minutes ago, Pen said:

I was thinking if people were trying to advertise to you something you thought dangerous. But then, when you mention Coke and Lays I guess that does happen for most people fairly often!   And fast food, tobacco, alcohol, etc all get heavy advertising, And I guess the CDC was once active in promoting and advertising DDT too.  So I guess yes, long history.   Personally, it usually turns me off.  But I guess it works well for most or they would not do It. 

I guess I think that advertising just won’t work on people who actively think it’s dangerous.  Those people aren’t “gettable”.   That’s their choice.  But advertising or messaging to the people who just aren’t sure, or are just busy, or think it’s going to cost them money or any number of “gettable” people might work. 
 

l know you think the vaccine is dangerous and that Covid is not so we may simply not agree on this.  I do think your comparison to tobacco or alcohol is apt in that case though.  I very rarely drink and would never smoke.  Those messages don’t ever work on me.  But they do market Bud Light differently than they do high end Scoth because they are appealing to different groups.  I don’t see anything bad or nefarious about that.  A Bud Light drinker would probably respond to a different ad about Covid vaccine than the Scotch drinker too.  

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by HeartString

[Corraleno]

1 minute ago, Frances said:

I’m always surprised by this type of question, as I don’t get why people are bothered unless they feel guilty about their association with a particular group. If people make incorrect assumptions about me because they know I vote a particular way, for example, it doesn’t bother me at all because I know it’s not true.

And if the reverse were actually true — if only 7-10% of Republicans and/or Trump supporters were refusing to vax vs 45-47% of Democrats and/or Biden supporters, I would absolutely be arguing that we need better information and incentives targeting the latter group — more PSAs from leaders and spokespeople they trust, better information disseminated in ways likely to reach that group, more incentives that would appeal to them, etc.

[KSera]

38 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

My statement was a true and acurate statement.  

Your statement was true. I have acknowledged that repeatedly. I expect there is likely to be someone out there that gained a little clarification on your post from reading my subsequent post, and that’s the reason I posted it. If no one did 🤷‍♀️. No harm done. What I posted was accurate as well. I don’t have anything else to discuss about it. I’m going to give you the last word on this, because as I’ve said, I’m not at all invested in this particular argument whatsoever.

[Penelope]

4 hours ago, HeartString said:

If it were Democrats that I felt needed to be persuaded or marketed too?  Well… it’s advertising. Biden, Fauci, ads on left leaning podcasts and news outlets. I get advertisements all the time. Public health messaging is no different than Coke or Lays. The advertise not drinking and driving or not leaving kids and pets in hot cars.  Vaccines are public health.  I guess it doesn’t bother me.  
 

Everyone knows Facebook and YouTube use micro-targeting to get advertisements to just the right people.  If you are a cat-owning Pepsi drinking person you see different ads than dog owning coke drinkers.  It’s been that way for years.  Why would vaccine info be different?  🤷‍♀️

I wonder if the promotion by influential people may have already had the effects they are going to have. It helps persuade some, while others feel manipulated by it. 
Dolly Parton probably did a lot of good. But I wonder how much affect it had, for example, for Dr. Fauci to point out Dr. Corbett and say, look, this scientist is Black, so if you are Black, you should trust the vaccine. I don’t know, it can seem a little cringe. Like I doubt that promo done by a bunch of Republican governors, or was it Congressmen, did much for the vaccine effort. I do give everyone kudos for even trying. 
 

I think we need public health ads, but I really think that time will help lower vaccination rates. People will go for their doctor visits, and it will come up. Time passes and nothing else bad is happening from vaccines, and they get fully approved, more people will take it. And outbreaks may happen, and some who thought we were pretty much “done” so that they don’t need a shot, will change their minds.

[Bootsie]

38 minutes ago, Frances said:

Yes, I should have said Trump voter, not Trump supporter. I agree we can’t say the majority of those not getting vaccines are Republicans (even though as a group they are more opposed to the vaccine), but as the article describes, counties that went for Trump, especially by wide margins, generally have lower vaccine rates. It also points out that politics seem to play more of a role as the vaccine becomes available to younger and younger people. There is more of a political divide among younger people than older people.

I am not sure how accurate the county level immunization records are.  DH was immunized in a different county from which we live.  My sister was immunized in a different state than she lives in.  And, living in a metropolitan area that spreads over multiple counties, I know people who got a vaccine in the metro area, but have no idea in what county line it was. 

For the CDC records, the entire state of Texas is missing.  Other states, like Colorado, only have 70.5% of the vaccinated recipients with a valid county.  

 

 

[Frances]

39 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I am not sure how accurate the county level immunization records are.  DH was immunized in a different county from which we live.  My sister was immunized in a different state than she lives in.  And, living in a metropolitan area that spreads over multiple counties, I know people who got a vaccine in the metro area, but have no idea in what county line it was. 

For the CDC records, the entire state of Texas is missing.  Other states, like Colorado, only have 70.5% of the vaccinated recipients with a valid county.  

 

 

At least here, they would still know your county based on address, even if you got immunized in a different county. It’s my understanding the vaccine rates here are based on your address, not where you got vaccinated. I know that is true for my son who lives in one county, works in another, but got vaccinated in a third.

[Frances]

47 minutes ago, Penelope said:

I wonder if the promotion by influential people may have already had the effects they are going to have. It helps persuade some, while others feel manipulated by it. 
Dolly Parton probably did a lot of good. But I wonder how much affect it had, for example, for Dr. Fauci to point out Dr. Corbett and say, look, this scientist is Black, so if you are Black, you should trust the vaccine. I don’t know, it can seem a little cringe. Like I doubt that promo done by a bunch of Republican governors, or was it Congressmen, did much for the vaccine effort. I do give everyone kudos for even trying. 

I agree that a promo done by Republican leaders likely had little effect. In order for it to work, they would probably have to come clean about other lies and conspiracy theories they have supported and spread and there’s little chance of that happening.

[Bootsie]

10 minutes ago, Frances said:

At least here, they would still know your county based on address, even if you got immunized in a different county. It’s my understanding the vaccine rates here are based on your address, not where you got vaccinated. I know that is true for my son who lives in one county, works in another, but got vaccinated in a third.

The CDC has a description of how its county records Reporting County-Level COVID-19 Vaccination Data | CDC.  Then, if you look at each state you can see what percentage of the records did not have a valid county.  What I don't know is whether a state like Colorado that says that 70.5% of the vaccines had a valid county if that seemed to be 70.5% across the state or if some particular providers of vaccines did not report and th3 30% not reporting are concentrated in particular areas of the state.  

[Frances]

4 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

The CDC has a description of how its county records Reporting County-Level COVID-19 Vaccination Data | CDC.  Then, if you look at each state you can see what percentage of the records did not have a valid county.  What I don't know is whether a state like Colorado that says that 70.5% of the vaccines had a valid county if that seemed to be 70.5% across the state or if some particular providers of vaccines did not report and th3 30% not reporting are concentrated in particular areas of the state.  

Like all large data sets, it does definitely seem that there are various data issues. It would be quite surprising to me though if they were both severe enough and consistent enough in the right direction to account for the general differences related to voting preference. I suppose anything is possible though.

[SKL]

Regarding all the polling data being discussed - it is known that in recent years, pollsters have been doing a pretty awful job of reflecting reality.  Personally I think this is because they are too biased to do a logical poll.

Regarding the topic at hand - Ohio is a swing state.  It has a very nice mix of folks.  A large % of the people who are not vaxed are people of color living in blue cities.  I think it is likely the incentives are aimed at that population more so than Republican antis.

[ktgrok]

I unfortunatlely know more anti covid vaccine folks than I'd like, and they fall into two camps. Either hard core Trump supporters who preach conservative values and guns and religion, or the everything organic, cure cancer with essential oils camp. Or, some are both, actually. 

Neighbor's said months ago they wouldn't get the vaccine because "they" are putting "stuff" in it. Her friend on facebook went on a long rant full of conspiracy video links about how it modifies your DNA, is "poison", etc. 

[Corraleno]

RE: incentives 

Walmart is now offering a $75 bonus to employees for proof of vaccination. Those who provide proof can also stop wearing masks if they choose. Any employee without proof of vaccination must continue masking.
Source

Amazon is holding on-site vax clinics at more than 250 warehouses, and have offered current employees bonuses of up to $80. They are also offering a $100 bonus to new hires for proof of vaccination. 
Source

Kroger is offering $100 to employees for proof of vaccination. Aldi and Darden Restaurants (Olive Garden and Longhorn Steakhouse) are both offering 2 hours of paid time off for each dose. Amtrak is offering 2 hours of paid time off for each dose, plus paid time off for up to 48 hours after vaccination, and more than 48 hours if medically necessary.
Source

[frogger]

Well, my son is not vaccinated yet because he is in the under 15 crowd and though it is now approved for his age, there is another bump in appointment making due to another group becoming eligible. He wants me to hurry up and get him an appointment though because as soon as everyone in his training program is vaccinated they will allow them to train in a gym together unmasked. No money incentive needed. 

I do think money incentives are useful for different groups though. I'm just throwing another carrot by a group.

[Penelope]

5 hours ago, Frances said:

I agree that a promo done by Republican leaders likely had little effect. In order for it to work, they would probably have to come clean about other lies and conspiracy theories they have supported and spread and there’s little chance of that happening.

Must politics be part of everything? 

Someone who is hesitant and also feels this way about anyone with an R next to their name is probably not the target of that promo, anyway. 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Penelope said:

Must politics be part of everything? 

Someone who is hesitant and also feels this way about anyone with an R next to their name is probably not the target of that promo, anyway. 

My comment assumed the target of the promo was fellow Republicans.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Frances

[Bootsie]

Speaking of incentives:  DD is in grad school at a university in Europe.  She just go an ad that anyhone who votes in the student union elections will get a free beer--you wouldn't see that in a university in the US 🙂

[Acadie]

Dd18 and I just registered with Ohio Vax-a-Million to win a million dollars. And I'm pretty sure we're going to win!

[Tenaj]

I registered today to and it took forever because I forgot that we had blocked gambling sites on our server 🤣🤣. 

[edelweiss]

We registered today too (DH and both DDs)! I'm sure that we are going to win! LOL!

[Dmmetler]

On 5/17/2021 at 1:51 PM, Bootsie said:

Speaking of incentives:  DD is in grad school at a university in Europe.  She just go an ad that anyhone who votes in the student union elections will get a free beer--you wouldn't see that in a university in the US 🙂

Seems like it would probably work here, though.

[Dmmetler]

On 5/16/2021 at 11:45 PM, frogger said:

Well, my son is not vaccinated yet because he is in the under 15 crowd and though it is now approved for his age, there is another bump in appointment making due to another group becoming eligible. He wants me to hurry up and get him an appointment though because as soon as everyone in his training program is vaccinated they will allow them to train in a gym together unmasked. No money incentive needed. 

I do think money incentives are useful for different groups though. I'm just throwing another carrot by a group.

Unfortunately I was told today that I cannot require proof of vaccination to drop mask requirements. I can either keep them in place across the board, or make it optional for everyone. For this summer, it doesn't matter, since even my teens only just became eligible and it will take most of the summer before they would be considered fully vaccinated, and parents can choose to wait in a different part of the building if they want to take off their masks. But it seems that requiring documentation and allowing those with documentation (for either vaccination, immunity due to titer after catching COVID, or a waiver) to go unmasked if they wish, but having the mask requirement in place for everyone else would be a reasonable response to the CDC recommendations. It's especially silly when you realize that we already have to have vax information or a waiver on file for many of the programs, and since most of the kids who come to the center do multiple things, it's likely that almost all of my piano students have a vaccine card in the office from summer camp, after school care, or sports. 

 

 

[SKL]

I signed up too, and I am also sure I'm gonna win!

I feel a little dirty about it.  I mean, we were getting vaxed regardless, and if we weren't, we sure wouldn't do it for a bribe.  (Well, maybe my kids would, but ....)  However, my boss would eat my head if I didn't sign up, so I did it.  😛  I can always give the $1m to charity after I win it!

[frogger]

1 minute ago, Dmmetler said:

Unfortunately I was told today that I cannot require proof of vaccination to drop mask requirements. I can either keep them in place across the board, or make it optional for everyone. For this summer, it doesn't matter, since even my teens only just became eligible and it will take most of the summer before they would be considered fully vaccinated, and parents can choose to wait in a different part of the building if they want to take off their masks. But it seems that requiring documentation and allowing those with documentation (for either vaccination, immunity due to titer after catching COVID, or a waiver) to go unmasked if they wish, but having the mask requirement in place for everyone else would be a reasonable response to the CDC recommendations. It's especially silly when you realize that we already have to have vax information or a waiver on file for many of the programs, and since most of the kids who come to the center do multiple things, it's likely that almost all of my piano students have a vaccine card in the office from summer camp, after school care, or sports. 

 

 

Well, he was told everyone had to be vaccinated before anyone was allowed to take the mask off. So yes, the same rule applies to the whole group.  I'm not sure what they require as proof because well, we wouldn't lie anyway so I didn't think to ask.  That definitely would make for some strong social pressure if kids happened to find out who was keeping them from unmasking. I would think that coaches cannot reveal medical info but if it got out. 😳

[Kassia]

18 minutes ago, SKL said:

I signed up too, and I am also sure I'm gonna win!

I feel a little dirty about it.  I mean, we were getting vaxed regardless, and if we weren't, we sure wouldn't do it for a bribe.  (Well, maybe my kids would, but ....)  However, my boss would eat my head if I didn't sign up, so I did it.  😛  I can always give the $1m to charity after I win it!

I think our odds of winning are pretty minimal!  

"At least 60,000 people called into the Ohio Department of Health’s call center and ohiovaxamillion.com was viewed more than 25 million times as of 4:30 p.m. Monday, according to the Ohio Department of Health."

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I think our odds of winning are pretty minimal!  

"At least 60,000 people called into the Ohio Department of Health’s call center and ohiovaxamillion.com was viewed more than 25 million times as of 4:30 p.m. Monday, according to the Ohio Department of Health."

I know, I feel silly even signing up.  😛

[Kassia]

20 minutes ago, SKL said:

I know, I feel silly even signing up.  😛

Us too!  

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, Acadie said:

Dd18 and I just registered with Ohio Vax-a-Million to win a million dollars. And I'm pretty sure we're going to win!

We couldn't get the site to work today. 

1 hour ago, JanOH said:

I registered today to and it took forever because I forgot that we had blocked gambling sites on our server 🤣🤣. 

I should double check what device my DH tried to register on, lol! This might be a factor.