Thanks

[Drama Llama]

I’m deleting this because I realize it would be hurtful if certain people found it.

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[prairiewindmomma]

Tomato based sauce-no

beans and legumes—yes on protein if the portion size is sufficient

sweet potato counts as a vitamin A class veg for me

cheese as an ingredient does not count as a protein for me, it counts as a fat

 

[Bootsie]

3 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I am currently cooking dinner most nights of the week for assorted in laws including my little nieces, plus a few other people.  

There has been some disagreement about feeding the younger kids, who are hesitant around new food.  We've got a couple very different philosophies, and having different rules for different kids at the same table turned out to be challenging, and we ended up negotiating a compromise, which is that I'll make sure there's a kid friendly (meaning friendly to his kids, I know all picky kids are different in what they'll eat) protein and vegetable at each meal, and usually some other more adult options, and the kids will be expected to eat at least one thing in each category, and drink some milk. 

This seems simple enough, but it has led to some discussions about what counts as a veggie or a protein.  Here are some foods we seem to have discussed

Tomato based sauce (e.g. marinara or bolognese or pizza sauce) (veggie or not?)

Sweet potatoes in various formats (veggie or not?)

Black beans, lentils, chickpeas, soy butter  (veggie? protein?  neither? both?)

Cheese as part of a dish (e.g. pizza, ravioli, quesadilla)

So, what says the hive?  

The definition of Bolognese sauce, for example, varies a lot from person to person--some would be protein--some have very little tomato, but may count as a veggie in that they have enough onion and carrot.  To me it is much more of how something fits into an overall healthy diet.  Black beans would count as a protein, not a veggie, to me.  I would prefer to have a varied diet of different with asparagus one night, cauliflower one night, and perhaps a night with quesadillas and with black beans (and perhaps) not a veggie, than every night have the same veggie and protein to say that I had a veggie and protein.  

[Drama Llama]

3 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

 

cheese as an ingredient does not count as a protein for me, it counts as a fat

 

When you say this, does this mean that something like cheese pizza and a salad, or cheese ravioli with tomato sauce and some broccoli wouldn't be a complete meal to you?

 

[Carol in Cal.]

Protein--meat, cheese, beans/legumes, tofu.  This would include soy products and nut butters.  Whole grains get a half mention as contributory but in my world (which is protein/carb/other plants as the major desired divisions), whole grains come down as 'better carbs'.

Veggies--other plants.  This would include your sweet potatoes, but they are in the half mention as less good because their glycemic index is fairly high.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Carol in Cal.

[wendyroo]

Tomato based sauce  - no

Sweet potatoes - healthy starch

Black beans, lentils, chickpeas  - protein

Cheese as part of a dish - protein

[hippymamato3]

Tomato sauce - veggie

Sweet potatoes - veggie

beans, lentils, chickpeas - protein

cheese - protein 

[Drama Llama]

...

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[MoyaPechal]

Tomato sauce: It's a vegetable but it depends on how it's served. I wouldn't consider it enough vegetables for a meal by itself if a full serving of veggies is a requirement and it's just a regular amount on pasta. I make a shrimp dish, though, which has a thick chunky tomato sauce with onions, jalapenos, etc in it and each serving has some shrimp and a LOT of sauce and some feta cheese. So that I'd consider a decent serving of veggies. It really depends on the dish in question and the sauce. But of course sometimes we do just have pasta with tomato sauce. You don't have to have a big veggie serving every single meal if the overall diet is balanced. 

Sweet potatoes: healthy root vegetable. Who is complaining about sweet potatoes???

Black beans, lentils, chickpeas: healthy protein for sure. My DD looooves fakes (Greek lentil soup)

Cheese: Protein but I wouldn't rely solely on cheese for protein most nights of the week

 

So, for example, pizza with cheese and tomato sauce technically has a protein and a vegetable, but most people would not consider that a healthy meal or enough vegetables. Not every meal NEEDS to be healthy, of course! Yesterday I made gluten free pizza dough from scratch and made pizza with lots of tomatoes and fresh mozzarella and basil. Not super healthy, but we eat that maybe once a week.

 

Is lean meat or fish not an option for ethical or religious reasons?

Edited December 17, 2020 by MoyaPechal

[cjzimmer1]

43 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

 

Tomato based sauce (e.g. marinara or bolognese or pizza sauce) (veggie or not?)In my world no this doesn't count but I do know that both WIC and the school lunches we get count it as a veggie.

Sweet potatoes in various formats (veggie or not?). That's a carb not a veggie as far as I'm concerned.

Black beans, lentils, chickpeas, soy butter  (veggie? protein?  neither? both?), Legumes are protein

Cheese as part of a dish (e.g. pizza, ravioli, quesadilla), I'd count it as a freebie or maybe a dairy.  Not enough for a protein in my book.

So, what says the hive?  

I'm not a dietician by any means so I have no idea how these things truly count but the answers in bold is how I would handle those foods in my own house.

[Katy]

Tomato sauce is not a vegetable.  (ETA: it's a fruit that is traditionally counted as a vegetable because it is low in calories, but every tomato sauce my kids eat is filled with so much sugar it definitely should NOT count).

Starches that are high in vitamins (like sweet potato and corn) count as a vegetable if the vitamin & nutrient count is similar.

Legumes are a protein, and to me it would count if they ate at least 3 bites.  Real half + spoonful bites, not 3 beans.

Cheese only counts as a protein if it's fat free.  Then it is ACTUALLY protein and not fat.

That said we basically let kids eat a peanut butter sandwich if they don't want our main dish.  But everyone over 3 has to really taste it, meaning 3 bites of everything.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Katy

[prairiewindmomma]

We aim for a plate of half veg, 1/4 carb, 1/4 protein. I would consider a meal of cheese ravioli with marinara and a side of broccoli a full meal if the broccoli was/could be generously portioned. I would aim to make the next lunch include a heavier amount of protein. I look at the total day’s balance. Not every meal needs to be perfect.

That said, I have three teens approaching 6’ tall. Cheese pizza and a salad wouldn’t keep them full. Neither would ravioli and broccoli. They would have to eat a lot to fill up and for two of those kids, that carb load would be a problem. They would likely be eating a bedtime snack that evening that was protein heavy if we were guests somewhere. At home, that would not be a common meal. A more likely meal would be chicken breasts cooked in a pan sauce with zucchini, served over rice for those needing more calories. We eat pretty low carb here—something more approaching the meditteranean diet. This is especially true for my picky eaters. They would live on processed carbs if they could.
 

 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[wendyroo]

I have a handful of touchy eaters (exacerbated by neuro-divergence). Two things work well for us:

1 - Deconstructing meals. None of my kiddos would eat black bean soup, but they all like black beans...separate, recognizable, plain, and most importantly, not "slimy" which is a death knoll for any food. These are kids that will eat red peppers and broccoli, but if I put them on pizza they will pick them off and eat all the parts separately. They prefer to eat plain, dry lettuce rather than put it on their tacos...actually, they eat all their taco ingredients separately. They won't even dip carrots/celery/lettuce in ranch dressing, but rather eat them plain. Weirdos. 😄

2 - Choice! At most meals I try to include 4-5 vegetables so that I can insist they eat 2-3 of them. That way they are exposed to them all, but they still feel like they have the option to avoid the ones they find the most objectionable. This ties in nicely with deconstructed meals. I often serve salad or rice bowls or baked potatoes as a "bar" where everyone can serve themselves toppings (and arrange them as they want on their plates). With a sheet pan meal, I might throw sausage, chicken and beans on a tray as the protein choices and squash, green beans, broccoli, asparagus, and cauliflower on the veggie trays. The kids need to choose at least one protein and two veggies; no matter what they choose, I can throw a fruit on their plate and feel like they are eating a balanced meal.

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Ausmumof3]

Bolognese would depend if you made it from scratch with tinned tomatoes and diced onion etc or if it was puréed, processed from a jar.  Sweet potatoes are a vegetable.  What else would they be?  Beans lentils and chickpeas are vegetables but no way in heck would my picky eaters touch them.   Cheese counts as a protein for lunch but not dinner for me.  Which I know is dumb but I just want the kids to have some non dairy based protein.

[matrips]

Am I mean?  I would make a good meal, something that most people should/would eat.  I mean  I wouldn’t make liver and onion.  
And if people don’t like it, then they or their parent make something for them.  A sandwich?  Can of soup. Cereal.

proteins- meats and beans

veggies- most colorful stuff Green, orange and red. So sweet potatoes are a yes for me

pizza is our Friday night dinner.  So pizza and salad sound fine. 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

OK, I'm going to post what I served, and what people ate today, and see how people feel about the meal.

If I'm serving the meal, I don't plate it.  I just put everything on the table, and let people serve themselves, obviously with help for any little kids.  For my kids, I make sure what's on the table is balanced, but then I let them choose freely.  But the other parent wants to hear what they ate, and is concerned that it includes milk, protein, and veggie at every meal.  

Today I served:

Taco soup (ground turkey, pinto beans, tomatoes, peppers, onions, corn, and some seasoning)

Vegetarian black bean soup 

Quesadillas made with whole grain tortilla and cheddar cheese

Red peppers, baby carrots and guacamole

Salsa, sour cream, and shredded cheese

Pears and blueberries

 

4 youngest kids, aged 6 to 10 ate:

Kid 1: Several bowls of taco soup with cheese, peppers with guacamole, pears, blueberries, and water

Kid 2: Turkey fished out of the taco soup with cheese, carrots with guacamole, pears, blueberries and milk

Kid 3: Quesadilla, black bean soup, carrots, pears, and milk

Kid 4: Quesadilla, red peppers, pears, blueberries and milk 

 

 

When my impossible to feed kid was younger the only thing he would have eaten from that list would have been the baby carrots, red peppers and pears.  He didn’t do a lot of cheese or cream which would have eliminated most do those foods.  Otherwise it sounds pretty healthy.  
 

for super picky eaters or kids with difficulty with weird textures having things kept simple or separate as much as possible really helps.  I know this is a lot of hassle especially if you’re cooking for someone else’s kids though.

[matrips]

What you made and what they ate sounds perfectly fine.  The other parent sounds a bit controlling or neurotic if they find fault with it.  It’s good healthy food and a very nice variety.

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

When you say this, does this mean that something like cheese pizza and a salad, or cheese ravioli with tomato sauce and some broccoli wouldn't be a complete meal to you?

 

I would count that as a meal for lunch or maybe for a once a week dinner but not as an every night thing if that makes sense

[matrips]

Just now, BaseballandHockey said:

See, for me, that's one thing I'd rather avoid.  I feel as though, for my kids, if that was an option they'd take it every time.  So, I'd rather make sure that what I put on the table has enough variety that they'll be able to find something. 

I just thought, today, that I had achieved that goal.  

I think you definitely achieved your goal today.  And that you’re nice than me! 😂. 

[Annie G]

I think they all ate fine- a variety of healthy foods.  

[PeterPan]

I've followed the rules of food combining for years, and they have lists based on how foods digest. 

high starch veges/grains/legumes

low starch veges/grains/legumes

fruits (which actually have 3 separate sub categories of regular, bananas/dried, and melons)

proteins

So in our house we eat lunch typically with high starch, dinner with low starch + protein, and breakfast can go protein/fruit.

5 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I agree it's kind of slimy. 

You can rinse them. They can be made with corn as a salsa, put onto salads, etc. They shouldn't be slimy. And refried black beans are AMAZING with cumin and onion, yum yum.

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Tomato based sauce (e.g. marinara or bolognese or pizza sauce) (veggie or not?)

Sweet potatoes in various formats (veggie or not?)

Black beans, lentils, chickpeas, soy butter  (veggie? protein?  neither? both?)

Cheese as part of a dish (e.g. pizza, ravioli, quesadilla)

The tomato sauce is bonus and don't count toward a vege requirement in our house.

Sweet potatoes are a high starch vege, great choice. My ds loves them and we cook them in the instant pot.

The beans are all low starch legumes, which again don't count toward our vege requirement in our house. They *do* count toward a protein requirement, because of course they're good sources of protein. 

Ok, I've never seen/used soy butter. Oh my. In our system peanut butter is a high starch food but you're talking such small servings for this and it does say it has a nice chunk of protein. Reviews are saying it doesn't taste great compared to other butters. I will say when my ds is being picky, I count peanut butter toward that. Like if he's not wanting to chew, then peanut butter, almond butter, etc. will do toward that fat and protein requirement so that I know he got it. So that's where I'd put this.

I always try to make sure my ds gets something with FAT during the day btw. He is so keen on fruit and trim things, so I watch that and try to make that happen too. It can be that nut butter, guacamole in little individual servings (love!), nuts, whatever you want. I just try to make sure it happens for his brain and to help him feel full. 

Cheese, well that's protein obviously. 

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[PeterPan]

22 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Today I served:

Taco soup (ground turkey, pinto beans, tomatoes, peppers, onions, corn, and some seasoning)

Vegetarian black bean soup 

Quesadillas made with whole grain tortilla and cheddar cheese

Red peppers, baby carrots and guacamole

Salsa, sour cream, and shredded cheese

Pears and blueberries

For one thing, this sounds like a wonderful meal!!! Kids love red peppers, and you've got them eating guacamole which has those good fats. You're totally nailing it. 

The black bean soup absolutely counts as protein, and it's probably complete once you add the guacamole. Our bodies balance out over the week, not just one day. So this is fine.

I see people serving fruit at meals and it's so odd to me. Now granted, we didn't have $$ for nice fruit when I was growing up. However what the nutritionist told me was that eating the fruit right away pushes the food through the gut, causing it not to absorb as well. So personally, just the way she taught me, I would serve the fruit as snacks and let them focus on consuming their protein and low starch veges with the meal. You could eat the fruit earlier in the day for a mid day snack.

[PeterPan]

3 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

a veggie.

If you pull the fruit out to snacks, they'd have more room to eat veges. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by PeterPan

[Drama Llama]

4 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

If you pull the fruit out to snacks, they'd have more room to eat veges. 

See, I'm coming from a place where I feel like kids need to be intuitive about what they eat, so offering them a variety, and then letting them decide what they feel like makes sense to me.  I also feel like nutritionally with fruit and veggies the more variety the better and since they two youngest only eat a handful of veggies including fruit increases the variety in my mind. 

12 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I've followed the rules of food combining for years, and they have lists based on how foods digest. 

high starch veges/grains/legumes

low starch veges/grains/legumes

fruits (which actually have 3 separate sub categories of regular, bananas/dried, and melons)

proteins

So in our house we eat lunch typically with high starch, dinner with low starch + protein, and breakfast can go protein/fruit.

You can rinse them. They can be made with corn as a salsa, put onto salads, etc. They shouldn't be slimy. And refried black beans are AMAZING with cumin and onion, yum yum.

I don't think black beans are always slimy.  I just think black bean soup is slimy.  It's not a food I happen to enjoy.  I only added it for the pescatarian who likes it and couldn't eat the other soup, so I was surprised that the kid who turns down most of my food was happy to eat it. 

12 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

The tomato sauce is bonus and don't count toward a vege requirement in our house.

Sweet potatoes are a high starch vege, great choice. My ds loves them and we cook them in the instant pot.

The beans are all low starch legumes, which again don't count toward our vege requirement in our house. They *do* count toward a protein requirement, because of course they're good sources of protein. 

Ok, I've never seen/used soy butter. Oh my. In our system peanut butter is a high starch food but you're talking such small servings for this and it does say it has a nice chunk of protein. Reviews are saying it doesn't taste great compared to other butters. I will say when my ds is being picky, I count peanut butter toward that. Like if he's not wanting to chew, then peanut butter, almond butter, etc. will do toward that fat and protein requirement so that I know he got it. So that's where I'd put this.

I always try to make sure my ds gets something with FAT during the day btw. He is so keen on fruit and trim things, so I watch that and try to make that happen too. It can be that nut butter, guacamole in little individual servings (love!), nuts, whatever you want. I just try to make sure it happens for his brain and to help him feel full. 

Cheese, well that's protein obviously. 

One of the little ones has a peanut and nut allergy, so we don't have any in the house, hence the soy or sunbutter.  

[Pam in CT]

The "what counts" language is cracking me up.   Who "counts"?  Every meal... there's going to be another meal, in, like, six minutes or something.  I definitely never aimed to get every kid perfectly balanced every time, just kept a vague eye on the big picture.

That said...

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I am currently cooking dinner most nights of the week for assorted in laws including my little nieces, plus a few other people.  

There has been some disagreement about feeding the younger kids, who are hesitant around new food.  We've got a couple very different philosophies, and having different rules for different kids at the same table turned out to be challenging, and we ended up negotiating a compromise, which is that I'll make sure there's a kid friendly (meaning friendly to his kids, I know all picky kids are different in what they'll eat) protein and vegetable at each meal, and usually some other more adult options, and the kids will be expected to eat at least one thing in each category, and drink some milk. 

This seems simple enough, but it has led to some discussions about what counts as a veggie or a protein.  Here are some foods we seem to have discussed

Tomato based sauce (e.g. marinara or bolognese or pizza sauce) (veggie or not?)

Sweet potatoes in various formats (veggie or not?)

Black beans, lentils, chickpeas, soy butter  (veggie? protein?  neither? both?)

Cheese as part of a dish (e.g. pizza, ravioli, quesadilla)

So, what says the hive?  

Tomato based sauce - I guess technically tomato is healthy fruit not a veg, but I anyway manage to "fruits and vegetables" as a category. And I make it up from tomato paste, so there's no sugar... but unless I jam lentils and carrots and stuff into it, I don't really "count" it as anything, just garnish. (Same, FWIW, for pesto despite the pignoli and cheese. The only pasta sauce I'd "count" nutritionally is Jimmy Kimmel's #genius hack alfredo, which is solidly a protein.)

Sweet potato - I guess technically is a starch/carb, but sufficiently nutritious that I "count" that one as a veg.

Legumes - protein.  We have black bean soup probably once a week; it's definitely one of the go-to everyone-likes-it basics.

Cheese - protein. Sure, with a lot of fat. Whether I'd "count" it depends on how much of it.  A sprinkle of grated parm on top of pasta = calorie dense flavoring.  Wisconsin cheddar beer soup, or fondue = protein, with a lot of fat.

 

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Protein--meat, cheese, beans/legumes, tofu.  This would include soy products and nut butters.  Whole grains get a half mention as contributory but in my world (which is protein/carb/other plants as the major desired divisions, whole grains come down as 'better carbs'.

Veggies--other plants.  This would include your sweet potatoes, but they are in the half mention as less good because their glycemic index is fairly high.

This is more or less how I view the world, except I think I may be a bit of an outlier in that I view raw fruit in much the same category as vegetables, not some lesser also-ran.  Fruit is AWESOME. When the kids were little, I always put a pile of raw vegetables - cut up carrots, celery, broccoli, string beans, snap peas, red peppers, whatever was on hand -- so if they didn't like the cooked vegetable they could scarf up that.  More recently during COVID I've updated the same basic hack to fresh fruit. Tonight along with shepherd's pie, buttered noodles, and broccoli we had... canteloupe.  We ate the whole thing.

[wendyroo]

The only thing I see missing from what you served is a green vegetable. I do try very hard to ensure my kids are eating at least 3 servings of green vegetables a day. Of course they all prefer carrots, red peppers, sweet potatoes, corn, etc, which are mostly carbs, but that is all the more reason that I ensure a variety of green vegetables stay in the "tolerable" rotation. If I lose ground on that food group, it will be very hard to reintroduce it.

Celery sticks are easy to have prepped and ready to go, as are broccoli florets. Snap peas are a hit. Cole slaw, which they dip rather than having it covered with dressing. They will all eat plain spinach leaves, but those are a pain because they go bad so quickly. None of my kids like cucumber (too slimy), but that is an easy one if kids will eat it.

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, Pam in CT said:

The "what counts" language is cracking me up.   Who "counts"?  Every meal... there's going to be another meal, in, like, six minutes or something.  I definitely never aimed to get every kid perfectly balanced every time, just kept a vague eye on the big picture.

My BIL.

 

[KungFuPanda]

I wouldn’t split hairs over pizza night. Pizza is its own entity. We probably have it 3-4 times a month and don’t bother pretending it’s our best nutritional choice. I’ve got dough in the fridge right now. I do homemade crust, sauce from tomatoes I grew, and I do top with veggies, but pepperoni and sausage are very important to us. It’s a starchy, greasy, fatty miracle and we enjoy it for what it is. Unless they’re having a salad with it, pizza is kind of a nutritional freebie. I’d balance out the other nights before I’d try to make pizza night virtuous. 

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

See, I'm coming from a place where I feel like kids need to be intuitive about what they eat, so offering them a variety, and then letting them decide what they feel like makes sense to me.  I also feel like nutritionally with fruit and veggies the more variety the better and since they two youngest only eat a handful of veggies including fruit increases the variety in my mind. 

I don't think black beans are always slimy.  I just think black bean soup is slimy.  It's not a food I happen to enjoy.  I only added it for the pescatarian who likes it and couldn't eat the other soup, so I was surprised that the kid who turns down most of my food was happy to eat it. 

One of the little ones has a peanut and nut allergy, so we don't have any in the house, hence the soy or sunbutter.  

I have gradually shifted from being the other parent to being you over the years.  Trying to offer healthy options versus micromanaging. It sounds like you did well and the kids ate well.

[Pam in CT]

2 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

My BIL.

 

I see.

Perhaps he'd like to take the task on a few nights a week.

[Drama Llama]

2 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

The only thing I see missing from what you served is a green vegetable. I do try very hard to ensure my kids are eating at least 3 servings of green vegetables a day. Of course they all prefer carrots, red peppers, sweet potatoes, corn, etc, which are mostly carbs, but that is all the more reason that I ensure a variety of green vegetables stay in the "tolerable" rotation. If I lose ground on that food group, it will be very hard to reintroduce it.

Celery sticks are easy to have prepped and ready to go, as are broccoli florets. Snap peas are a hit. Cole slaw, which they dip rather than having it covered with dressing. They will all eat plain spinach leaves, but those are a pain because they go bad so quickly. None of my kids like cucumber (too slimy), but that is an easy one if kids will eat it.

You don't count the guacamole as a green veggie?  There were also green peppers in the soup.  

The only green veggie the two younger ones will eat is peas.  I serve those about every other night.  

[Ausmumof3]

4 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

My BIL.

 

Lol ...

I think it would depend what the trade off was.  Like if my bil fam was doing all the laundry while I did all the cooking I’d make a bit more effort than is I was doing it out of the goodness of my heart if you know what I mean.

[Ausmumof3]

Just now, BaseballandHockey said:

You don't count the guacamole as a green veggie?  There were also green peppers in the soup.  

The only green veggie the two younger ones will eat is peas.  I serve those about every other night.  

I don’t think avo has the same nutrition profile as leafy greens.  But I certainly wouldn’t get hung up about it for one night.  

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, Pam in CT said:

I see.

Perhaps he'd like to take the task on a few nights a week.

Nooooooooooooo we'd have the same handful of foods every night. 

I have a pretty strong visceral need to feed my grandfather in law.  He was the person who was there for my kids every day for the past two years, and cooking was a major part of how he showed his love.  But grief is hitting him hard, and now it's my turn to feed him and nurture him.  My SIL is also really struggling with pregnancy related nausea, so if I'm there cooking for him and my FIL, then it makes sense for me to feed her and her kids too.  

And I get that he's anxious.  I should probably delete some of what I said.  Everyone is anxious.  It's been quite a year.  

[Drama Llama]

6 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Lol ...

I think it would depend what the trade off was.  Like if my bil fam was doing all the laundry while I did all the cooking I’d make a bit more effort than is I was doing it out of the goodness of my heart if you know what I mean.

It evens out.  Maybe not in the moment, but over time.  My DH's family is good about it.  We've definitely been in the "take" mode more than the "give" mode the past couple years, but people are happy to remind me of seasons when things have been different. 

But there are also limits. I'm happy to add to a meal, or deconstruct a meal, but I worked hard to expose my kids to variety and I want to cook things that they like, and that the adults like too. 

[Drama Llama]

11 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I don’t think avo has the same nutrition profile as leafy greens.  But I certainly wouldn’t get hung up about it for one night.  

I don't think there are any leafy greens they eat.   But in my mind, it's one meal.  I don't serve leafy greens every night, but I serve them a fair amount.  I was responding to Wendyroo's list that had cucumber.  In my mind avocado is as green as cucumber. 

[Bootsie]

I had a child with some health-related issues which made some food choices tricky, but I never found that it was helpful to try to micromanage what other people put in their bodies--especially on a meal-by-meal basis.  I found it was much more beneficial, nutritionally and relationship-wise, to focus on offering a variety of healthy foods and minimizing having objectionable foods available.  To me, to focus on something like "every meal must have a protein and a veggie" and then get into classifying everything as to whether it falls into those categories gets in the way of the broader issue of healthy nutrition.  It isn't that asparagus is less healthy than spinach or more healthy than a tomato.  Each brings its own set of micronutrients, fiber, taste, etc.  I have no problem with having pancakes for dinner one night.  I wouldn't want it three or four nights a week (unless of course breakfast and lunch were much different than what is typical).  

[cjzimmer1]

15 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

You don't count the guacamole as a green veggie?  There were also green peppers in the soup.  

The only green veggie the two younger ones will eat is peas.  I serve those about every other night.  

guacamole is a fat, a very healthy fat, definitely not a veggie.

I've always heard about 1/2 cup of cooked veggies for a serving.  Unless there was a lot of green peppers, I don't think that would qualify as a serving of green veggie.

But I agree with the others, overall you served some pretty healthy food there.  No meal will ever be perfect.  I'm sure there is a reason why it' makes sense to do the cooking for the other family but if he is micromanaging the food to this level, you might need to rethink it.  Forcing someone else to cook and serve to ones own desired level of nutrition is a sure fire way to burn out that other person.

[PeterPan]

7 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I have no problem with having pancakes for dinner one night.  I wouldn't want it three or four nights a week (unless of course breakfast and lunch were much different than what is typical).  

I make 'em with lots of oats and sometimes even use ground up oats for most of the flour. At that point they're just protein.

[wendyroo]

15 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

You don't count the guacamole as a green veggie? 

I count avocado as a fat, a healthy fat, but a fat not a vegetable.

In my mind, for something to qualify as a vegetable it has to be nutrient and/or fiber dense, and relatively low in calories and carbs.

[Pam in CT]

re fatal flaw in otherwise #genius solution of having BIL trade off the cooking

15 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Nooooooooooooo we'd have the same handful of foods every night. 

I have a pretty strong visceral need to feed my grandfather in law.  He was the person who was there for my kids every day for the past two years, and cooking was a major part of how he showed his love.  But grief is hitting him hard, and now it's my turn to feed him and nurture him.  My SIL is also really struggling with pregnancy related nausea, so if I'm there cooking for him and my FIL, then it makes sense for me to feed her and her kids too.  

And I get that he's anxious.  I should probably delete some of what I said.  Everyone is anxious.  It's been quite a year.  

Ah, yes, that trap. I am familiar; my husband is the same. On the gratefully rare occasions when he looked around at 7p, noticed that I was still full-on absorbed in gardening or a sewing project or something and have lost track of time, and he vaguely muttered something about "whipping something up" my kids came running to me MOM!! DAD SAYS HE'S GOING TO COOK!! NOOOOOOOOOOOO PLEASE COME RIGHT AWAY!!!

(He's very good at other things.)

Given all you've said about your grandfather in law, I get it. I guess I'd try to work up a repetoire of dishes with little parts -- rice and curry with lots of little things in bowls, tacos/burritos/rice bowls where people dump in their own stuff, loaded baked potatoes, etc. One of my kids is vegetarian so over the years I worked out a bunch of stuff that are easy to split -- I make jambalaya with a vegan sausage, then have spiced chicken chunks that the rest of us roll in; a base chili that the rest of us dump spiced beef into, a chick pea tangine thing that the rest of us dump chunks of lamb into, etc. Maybe if you think in those terms you can keep the range and the spices for your kids in the mix-it-in part (loaded with chipotle or paprika or whatever) but have a mild base for the littles?

[MoyaPechal]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

OK, I'm going to post what I served, and what people ate today, and see how people feel about the meal.

If I'm serving the meal, I don't plate it.  I just put everything on the table, and let people serve themselves, obviously with help for any little kids.  For my kids, I make sure what's on the table is balanced, but then I let them choose freely.  But the other parent wants to hear what they ate, and is concerned that it includes milk, protein, and veggie at every meal.  

Today I served:

Taco soup (ground turkey, pinto beans, tomatoes, peppers, onions, corn, and some seasoning)

Vegetarian black bean soup 

Quesadillas made with whole grain tortilla and cheddar cheese

Red peppers, baby carrots and guacamole

Salsa, sour cream, and shredded cheese

Pears and blueberries

 

4 youngest kids, aged 6 to 10 ate:

Kid 1: Several bowls of taco soup with cheese, peppers with guacamole, pears, blueberries, and water

Kid 2: Turkey fished out of the taco soup with cheese, carrots with guacamole, pears, blueberries and milk

Kid 3: Quesadilla, black bean soup, carrots, pears, and milk

Kid 4: Quesadilla, red peppers, pears, blueberries and milk 

 

 

That sounds perfectly fine!

[MoyaPechal]

39 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

You don't count the guacamole as a green veggie?  There were also green peppers in the soup.  

The only green veggie the two younger ones will eat is peas.  I serve those about every other night.  

Avocado is a fruit, isn't it?

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, Pam in CT said:

re fatal flaw in otherwise #genius solution of having BIL trade off the cooking

Ah, yes, that trap. I am familiar; my husband is the same. On the gratefully rare occasions when he looked around at 7p, noticed that I was still full-on absorbed in gardening or a sewing project or something and have lost track of time, and he vaguely muttered something about "whipping something up" my kids came running to me MOM!! DAD SAYS HE'S GOING TO COOK!! NOOOOOOOOOOOO PLEASE COME RIGHT AWAY!!!

(He's very good at other things.)

Given all you've said about your grandfather in law, I get it. I guess I'd try to work up a repetoire of dishes with little parts -- rice and curry with lots of little things in bowls, tacos/burritos/rice bowls where people dump in their own stuff, loaded baked potatoes, etc. One of my kids is vegetarian so over the years I worked out a bunch of stuff that are easy to split -- I make jambalaya with a vegan sausage, then have spiced chicken chunks that the rest of us roll in; a base chili that the rest of us dump spiced beef into, a chick pea tangine thing that the rest of us dump chunks of lamb into, etc. Maybe if you think in those terms you can keep the range and the spices for your kids in the mix-it-in part (loaded with chipotle or paprika or whatever) but have a mild base for the littles?

I guess that's what I thought I'd done.  I made one thing that was complicated (the taco soup) that I fully expected the little kids wouldn't eat, and served it with a food (the quesadillas) that I knew they would eat, and then everything else was separate, take what you want.  I was pleasantly surprised by the reaction to the black bean soup, but otherwise they ate pretty much how I expected them to.  I guess in my mind, I felt like what they ate was fine, especially compared to what they've eaten in the past.  

[SKL]

2 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Tomato based sauce (e.g. marinara or bolognese or pizza sauce) (veggie or not?) Yes

Sweet potatoes in various formats (veggie or not?) Yes

Black beans, lentils, chickpeas, soy butter  (veggie? protein?  neither? both?) Both

Cheese as part of a dish (e.g. pizza, ravioli, quesadilla) Maybe, depending on the quantity and overall balance of what's being eaten.

So, what says the hive?  

My opinion is that even if these are not ideal forms or quantities of veg / protein, serving them can help kids get used to them / develop habits of eating such foods as part of their daily routine.