Kellyanne Conway must be trying to stay married

[Scarlett]

She and her husband both stepping back from their polar opposite jobs.  I always wondered how people stay married like that.

[Innisfree]

Their dd is having problems. I'm glad both parents are making her a priority.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

Their dd is having problems. I'm glad both parents are making her a priority.

Awww.  I did not know that.  I do always like to see parents put their kids above their careers.

[Catwoman]

Are they really trying to stay married, or did the dd’s very public demand for legal emancipation force both parents to try to save their public reputations by stepping back to “focus on the family?”

The dd has been eviscerating her parents on social media.

( In other news, Kellyanne Conway‘s daughter is probably now grounded for life.  😉 )

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by Catwoman

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Are they really trying to stay married, or did the dd’s very public demand for legal emancipation force both parents to try to save their public reputations by stepping back to “focus on the family?”

The dd has been eviscerating her parents on social media.

( In other news, Kellyanne Conway‘s daughter is probably now grounded for life.  😉 )

 

Ha, well clearly there is much more to this story than  I first thought.  But it does point to what I said about staying married with such differences.  It also affects the kids.

 

[catz]

Well by the time your teenage daughter is contacting lawyers to get emancipated, you've likely been in a cycle of dysfunction and possible neglect, emotional abuse, mental illness, who knows for years.  Stuff like that doesn't happen in a bubble.

I hope their kids get the help and attention they need.  

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Ha, well clearly there is much more to this story than  I first thought.  But it does point to what I said about staying married with such differences.  It also affects the kids.

 

 

I always wondered what Sunday Dinner with the Conways must have been like (assuming they are even on speaking terms,) because they seem to be polar opposites. 

The dd seems most bitter toward KellyAnne, saying she had made her children suffer because she wanted fame and money. The dd said bad things about her dad, too, but a lot of her focus has been on her mom’s neglect of her and her siblings.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I always wondered what Sunday Dinner with the Conways must have been like (assuming they are even on speaking terms,) because they seem to be polar opposites. 

The dd seems most bitter toward KellyAnne, saying she had made her children suffer because she wanted fame and money. The dd said bad things about her dad, too, but a lot of her focus has been on her mom’s neglect of her and her siblings.

It is always the mom's fault!   <insert sobbing emoji here>

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Well by the time your teenage daughter is contacting lawyers to get emancipated, you've likely been in a cycle of dysfunction and possible neglect, emotional abuse, mental illness, who knows for years.  Stuff like that doesn't happen in a bubble.

I hope their kids get the help and attention they need.  

 

I do, too. The dd is still so young, and she is filled with such bitterness, anger, and frustration.

I can’t help but wonder if one of the reasons why both parents suddenly stepped down from their very high profile jobs was because — in addition to the emancipation thing — the daughter may have threatened to release a lot of embarrassing private information about one or both of them.

 I hope I’m wrong about both of them, and that the parents are both truly concerned about their daughter and they value her and their other children’s happiness over their careers. It’s just hard not to be cynical, particularly when I truly can’t stand Kellyanne Conway. 

[livetoread]

Saw a meme today that I can’t find now. Shows Arnold Schwarzenegger in some movie role sitting in front of a mirror looking extremely serious and fierce as he picks up black coal and draws war paint marks on his face. Caption says “Conway family therapist preparing for a session.” Yep.

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

It is always the mom's fault!   <insert sobbing emoji here>

 

In this case, it actually might be. We will probably never know for sure. Truthfully, I hope we never know, because making their family problems even more public won’t benefit anyone.

Whatever my personal feelings are about Kellyanne Conway, though, I hope she and her dh are able to re-establish their relationship with theirdaughter and their other children. It sounds like those poor kids have been through a lot and I hope things get better for that family very soon.

 

[Farrar]

But my teen was having so much fun following Claudia Conway on Twitter, lol. I have no idea if she was really being neglected or abused. But if her goal was to derail her parents' political agenda, she staged a giant win. If it was a true cry for help, also a win.

[Scarlett]

I always wondered about Cokie Roberts and her husband too.  But they apparently had a really good marriage.  

[mathnerd]

 

25 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

She and her husband both stepping back from their polar opposite jobs.  I always wondered how people stay married like that.

They are actually a very smart couple who work in polar opposite jobs (if anyone took a masterclass on job security for a married couple, this couple could teach it!). Their daughter's very public accusations of abuse has probably triggered their public announcements about stepping back from their jobs. I really hope that their daughter gets the help she deserves.  

On a side note, there was a SNL skit parodying this couple's marriage a while back. (I will not link it because, politics ... but it is on youtube for those interested.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

They also need to help their kids with online school at home.  Not everything is a scandal. 

[Farrar]

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

They also need to help their kids with online school at home.  Not everything is a scandal. 

Their kid literally alleged that they were abusing her and contacted lawyers to get emancipated.

[Scarlett]

Just now, mathnerd said:

 

They are actually a very smart couple who work in polar opposite jobs (if anyone took a masterclass on job security for a married couple, this couple could teach it!). Their daughter's very public accusations of abuse has probably triggered their public announcements about stepping back from their jobs. I really hope that their daughter gets the help she deserves.  

On a side note, there was a SNL skit parodying this couple's marriage a while back. (I will not link it because, politics ... but it is on youtube for those interested.)

I saw it.  It was hilarious. KC never struck me as smart.  But shrug.  What do I know.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Just now, Farrar said:

Their kid literally alleged that they were abusing her and contacted lawyers to get emancipated.

So?  I know that.  That does not contradict the fact that they also have other children who are needing to do online school at home and have stated publicly that that is part of the need to step back.  You do know that families can have more than one thing going on, right? 

[TCB]

3 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Their kid literally alleged that they were abusing her and contacted lawyers to get emancipated.

I don’t know much about the situation but wondered if she has mentioned abuse before. I understand she has quite a large following on social media.

[Farrar]

3 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

So?  I know that.  That does not contradict the fact that they also have other children who are needing to do online school at home and have stated publicly that that is part of the need to step back.  You do know that families can have more than one thing going on, right? 

Sure. And I'm sure not letting this pattern repeat is part of what's going on. But... I think it's incredibly naive to be like, oh, I'm sure that's not it. There's no scandal here. Like, maybe it will all blow over and turn out to be not a big deal. But obviously there is a little bit of a scandal there and it's connected to her stepping back.

[catz]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

A teenage child is irked off at her parents and so her parents quit their jobs to do what they could.  

Isn’t that what we think should happen?  I don’t think the fact that a teen is trying for emancipation is all that big of a deal...at least not compared to other situations.  Most kids with such feelings just up and run away, which I am sure in their minds isn’t much different.  

But I don't think emotionally healthy kids in emotionally healthy home situations with decent family relationships would do this.  I think there is little doubt there are problems there.   I don't know why people jump to "the kid is probably lying" when a minor alleges abuse.  At a minimum, they have some serious issues at home to deal with.   And I truly hope the story falls off of media though and their kids don't get dragged through the mud further.  

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

But I don't think emotionally healthy kids in emotionally healthy home situations with decent family relationships would do this.  I think there is little doubt there are problems there.   I don't know why people jump to "the kid is probably lying" when a minor alleges abuse.  At a minimum, they have some serious issues at home to deal with.   And I truly hope the story falls off of media though and their kids don't get dragged through the mud further.  

I did see that the girl says she is taking  a break from social media.  So maybe combined with her parents stepping away from their jobs will help.

 

[Catwoman]

15 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

They also need to help their kids with online school at home.  Not everything is a scandal. 

 

Well, considering that right up until she announced that she was "stepping back," KellyAnne was apparently scheduled to travel to 2 states per day almost every day between now and the election, I'm pretty sure this whole fiasco has exactly nothing whatsoever to do with needing to help her kids with online school at home. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

Well, considering that right up until she announced that she was "stepping back," KellyAnne was apparently scheduled to travel to 2 states per day almost every day between now and the election, I'm pretty sure this whole fiasco has exactly nothing whatsoever to do with needing to help her kids with online school at home. 

Yeah I somehow don't picture her helping her kids with their school anyway.  Probably have tutors or have them in one of those pods we have been talking about.

 

[Catwoman]

17 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Agree.  It kinda sucks that things that parents deal with every day in this country are considered such a scandle just because politics

 

In this case, though, the kid is placing blame on both parents, so I don't think it's about one political side or the other. Clearly, both parents have messed up if their dd was so upset with her home life that she was ready to seek legal emancipation. That is not a small step for her to take. 

[Pawz4me]

19 minutes ago, Danae said:

I have said from the beginning that they were deliberately playing both sides so that whichever way the Republican party broke they'd still have influence.  They probably didn't realize how acrimonious the divide was going to get or how that lack of public authenticity was going to affect their kids as they came of age, though.

I've thought that all along, too, to some extent or other. My guess has been that they've been trying to set themselves up for a point-counterpoint type news/talk show after the election. And I haven't completely ruled out the possibility that this thing with their DD is all some flamboyant reality-type scheme to get more publicity and further that goal. But I'm thinking maybe that's a bit too cynical even for me. Whatever is going on, I hope their family survives it intact and healthy. 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

Many adults attempt to press on with their jobs in difficult situations at home, until it all blows up.  Heck, many adults do that with their own mental and physical health, let alone family situations.  

 

But just because she’s a well known political figure doesn’t mean that “it all blows up” has anything to do with the sorts of family blow ups that happen in families, even those without abuse, every day.  

 

I absolutely agree that both parents were focused on their careers until everything blew up. I don't think either of them would have "stepped back" had the dd not gone public with her demand for legal emancipation. That had to be a huge embarrassment (and hopefully a wake-up call) for both KellyAnne and George. I just hope they stepped back for the right reasons, and that they are able to repair the damage in their family relationship.

[Katy]

A 15 year old who's asking AOC to adopt her or just hire her because she has polar opposite political views to her parents is one thing, but claiming her dad doesn't care about her and doesn't know her middle name, and that her mom has been physically abusive for her entire life is another. A dramatic teen in a dramatic family isn't unusual, but those sorts of public accusations, as well as asking twitter followers for details about how she can find a pro-bono family lawyer to get emancipated IS the type of thing that should be listened to.  I don't know about where she lives but where I've lived it's routine for 16 year olds in abusive situations to get emancipation (after first being moved into a foster home or safer teen shelter situation, establishing they have somewhat stable mental health, and are capable of working and going to school or passing the GED).  15 is a bit young, but it isn't that unusual.

When Claudia said she was, "Taking a break from social media," she meant, "Mom is taking my phone away."

She also stated she got it back, but didn't think she would have it for long because of the twitter rant she was about to go on.  She said her parents weren't getting divorced after all, in an attempt to keep her from getting emancipated, and then went on to tweet political rants at her mom's boss, at length, until her mom announced she quit and apparently her phone was taken away.

I think it's impossible to know what's teenage drama and what is legitimate, but she certainly found a path to finally get her parents' attention.

[SanDiegoMom]

 

36 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

They also need to help their kids with online school at home.  Not everything is a scandal. 

I think based on their income (previously they lived in Alpine, NJ which apparently boasts a median house price of 3,800,000 (America's most expensive zip code) it is probably safe to assume they had been planning to hire someone to oversee their schooling in some capacity.   But I feel so bad for their kids even if the abuse allegations are not true.  Neglect is still neglect, whatever the income level is. 

[Catwoman]

Just now, happysmileylady said:

I am going to disagree, as a parent of a child who had struggles as a teen.  Parents don’t have to screw up for their teen child to have problems.  (At least they don’t have to screw up more than any other parent, because we are all not perfect parents, which means we all make mistakes. )

 

Yes, but you are at home with your child. As I understand it, KellyAnne is just about as far off from a stay-at-home mom as you can get. Her career demands very long hours and lots of travel, so she couldn't be spending too much time at home with her kids. I don't know how often her dh travels, so I can't comment on whether or not he is at home with the kids, but I would guess that he probably works very long hours. And quite honestly, the dd does seem very dramatic, but maybe publicly airing the family's dirty laundry is the only way she can get her parents' attention. 

I'm not willing to discount what this kid has to say, because it seems to me that it would be pretty much impossible for the Conways to have a happy marriage, considering that they seem to have entirely different viewpoints and values. It is very sad that both of them seem to have prioritized politics and their careers over their family life. I hope that they can rekindle their relationship, though, because it does seem like they were a very happy couple prior to all of the political influences that have seemingly torn their family apart, and I certainly hope that even if they don't stay together as a couple, that they can both have good relationships with their children. 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, kand said:

 

 

I have to agree with happysmileylady here,

While what you and HSL are saying is true, there really is no comparison to the family you described vs. this couple.  You can't put all of your energy into your career and then be surprised when one or more of your kids doesn't handle it well.

[Paige]

I hope they both pull back, focus on all of their kids (and their marriage) for a while, and that the public never has to hear from any of them again. I wish them the best but seeing them publicly snipping at each other has been uncomfortable. Nobody wants to see family dysfunction like that.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

Yeah I am home *NOW*

I wasn’t always.  

There are a whole lot of parents that work lots of long hours.   Especially in these times.  Docs, paramedics, grocery store workers, Charmin employees, etc.  

Not the same thing.  Kellyanne travels A LOT.  

[catz]

Well as someone on the  FAR side of what I would call an emotionally neglectful home that contributed to some dramatic teen/young adult behavior (pretty mild compared to this) and mental health issues, I would just say plenty of parents including my own to this day wouldn't recognize their own parenting as a contributing factor of a teen's melt down.  At a minimum, the parents just aren't THERE and engaged.   I am personally am talking to my own teens about social media and mental health on an ongoing basis all the time.  And I don't really care enough to drone on about it anymore or go into details of my upbringing but I do agree these situations are complex.  And as someone who WAS on the dramatic side but did have some stuff going on at home,  I find minimizing what a minor says in a case like this upsetting.

Edited August 24, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[Catwoman]

25 minutes ago, kand said:

...the Conway family clearly has VERY different dynamics than my own and it’s hard to get a nurturing vibe from Kellyanne. Obviously things aren’t healthy there in some ways, and I think the parents focusing less on their public careers and lives will benefit the kids.  

 

 

I agree that the dd could very well have mental health issues -- she certainly seems extremely emotional, angry, and distraught -- but if her parents knew it (and they must have known she was very unhappy, if nothing else,) they probably should have "stepped back" quite a while ago and given her the time and attention they seem to suddenly be willing to do now. Should it really have taken them until their dd threatened legal emancipation to "step back" from their careers (or, realistically, even just just slow things down and make more time for family) if they were not part of the problem?  

I don't know if KellyAnne is nurturing. She may have been a much different person before she became famous. I hope she was. The dd says that her mom only cares about money and fame. Even if that's true now, maybe it wasn't always that way. I'm hoping that this current situation was a wake-up call for both her and her dh to go back to prioritizing their family over politics.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Catwoman
removing most of the quote for privacy reasons!

[Scarlett]

@Catwoman You quoted @kand

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

Well as someone on the  FAR side of what I would call an emotionally neglectful home that contributed to some dramatic teen/young adult behavior (pretty mild compared to this), I would just say plenty of parents including my own to this day wouldn't recognize their own parenting as a contributing factor of a teen's melt down.  At a minimum, the parents just aren't THERE and engaged.   I am personally am talking to my own teens about social media and mental health on an ongoing basis all the time.  And I don't really care enough to drone on about it anymore or go into details of my upbringing but I do agree these situations are complex.  And as someone who WAS on the dramatic side but did have some stuff going on at home,  I find minimizing what a minor says in a case like this upsetting.

 

I agree!  My feeling is that a kid doesn't suddenly wake up one morning and decide to file for legal emancipation from her parents. That is a very serious cry for help. It stands to reason that there are longstanding and serious issues in that family. 

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

@Catwoman You quoted @kand

 

OOPS!!! Sorry! I have to learn to READ!!! 

Off to delete the quote -- Sorry, @kand!!!

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, kand said:

I agree with you here. Also, could you please delete my post you quoted? I requested no quotes. Thanks. 

 

I'm so sorry! I left in a tiny bit of non-personal stuff so people could get an idea of what I was responding to, but if you'd prefer I'd delete that, too, I'll be more than happy to do it. 🙂 

[Catwoman]

11 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

From experience, it’s entirely possible that the parent really didn’t know.   There are many parents, even those that aren’t screw ups/neglectful/abusive, who really don’t understand what’s going on until something drastic happens.  Sometimes “I had no idea” is just parent lying to themselves.  And sometimes, they genuinely had no idea.  

 

Normally, I would absolutely agree with you about that... but this kid has been posting online for quite some time and has been pretty graphic about what she is upset about, so her parents most definitely knew that their dd was going through some serious emotional struggles. And we know that KellyAnne and George knew what she was posting, because they kept taking her phone away, apparently as punishment for what she posted.

[lovinmyboys]

Of course good parents can have teens with lots of challenges. And other than their very public disputes, they may be great parents. Lots of people have to work long hours for their jobs or travel a lot and I don’t think they are neglecting their children. I guess I am confused how they thought whatever it was they were doing in public wasn’t going to affect their kids. 

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

Honestly, why should it necessarily be a problem that she works and travels a lot? Would you shame the dad for the doing the same thing? Now that she is taking time off to focus more on her family she's also shamed? 

Maybe there is abuse and/or neglect going on, but just because the daughter says it doesn't make it true, and just because the daughter seemingly blames the mom also doesn't mean it's true. My sisters and I all grew up in the same household that was abusive, and all three of us would tell the story very very differently while "blaming" a different parent(s) for what happened. Teens absolutely can go "off the rails" without it being in any way the fault of either parent and also unknown to the parent(s).

 

Yes, I would absolutely blame the father, too. 

I think it’s pretty rude and presumptuous to assume that the people who are posting here would be so sexist as to blame KellyAnne and not her dh. It seems that everyone is talking about both parents, not just one of them, so I’m not sure where you are getting that idea.

And in this case, the dd posted her grievances online. The parents did know all about it.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Catwoman

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

Honestly, why should it necessarily be a problem that she works and travels a lot? Would you shame the dad for the doing the same thing? Now that she is taking time off to focus more on her family she's also shamed? 

Maybe there is abuse and/or neglect going on, but just because the daughter says it doesn't make it true, and just because the daughter seemingly blames the mom also doesn't mean it's true. My sisters and I all grew up in the same household that was abusive, and all three of us would tell the story very very differently while "blaming" a different parent(s) for what happened. Teens absolutely can go "off the rails" without it being in any way the fault of either parent and also unknown to the parent(s).

I disagree that I was shaming anyone. But yes, I would definitely discourage any parent who cares about my opinion to not take jobs that require extensive travel.  Or work period that takes consumes a person.  There is a price to pay for that.  And of course that is my opinion and I am sure there are people on here whose husbands travel extensively.  

Edited August 24, 2020 by Scarlett

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

I disagree that I was shaming anyone. But yes, I would definitely discourage any parent who cares about my opinion to not take jobs that require extensive travel.  Or work period.  There is a price to pay for that.  And of course that is my opinion and I am sure there are people on here whose husbands travel extensively.  

 

 As I recall, during the 2016 campaign, the arrangement was that George stayed home with the kids while KellyAnne traveled almost constantly, but they were able to make it work as a family. I suspect that the subsequent political battles are a big part of what led to their current situation.

[SKL]

I wish the family well.

My kid hates me sometimes, despite me being literally down the hall from her almost 100% of the time since March (and I've worked at home her whole life).  And no, I don't abuse or neglect her.  I remember being a teen and wanting to run away over really stupid stuff - I now realize that was hormones.  But, there are teens who are abused, so who knows?  I hope people will give them space to try to sort it out and fix what can be fixed.

I don't believe that different political views in the parents must cause problems for the kids.  Actually, I think it can be healthy.  It depends how they talk about it.  That said ... I've heard Mr. Conway say some pretty nasty things very publicly about his wife's job.  Who knows how they explain that to the kids?

[mathnerd]

40 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

From experience, it’s entirely possible that the parent really didn’t know.   There are many parents, even those that aren’t screw ups/neglectful/abusive, who really don’t understand what’s going on until something drastic happens.  Sometimes “I had no idea” is just parent lying to themselves.  And sometimes, they genuinely had no idea.  

When someone is a public and polarizing figure such as KC or GC and they are on TV and twitter every day making their own waves and their daughter is blasting them on social media and has her own huge following, it is hard to believe that they were blindsided by this. Actually, there is no excuse for the parent really not knowing that something is going on when the daughter is talking about them to her large following and is trending on social media. This case is vastly different from the many parents that you are describing above.

[teachermom2834]

In 2016 I though the Conways were gearing up for some kind of reality show. They disagreed but we have seen political couples who disagreed before. But then it just got nastier and nastier and it didn't seem like they were playing it up for an audience anymore. It seemed genuine and mean. And regardless of what I think of Kellyanne's boss I just really thought George was a jerk for undermining his wife's career in that way. It's not like George's commentary was saving the country. Just making his wife's job more difficult. Kellyanne was successful and influential and her husband was just trying to sabotage her job. There was no playfulness or "it's just work" about their conflicts. They seemed very real and very hurtful and it was embarassing to watch. 

I hope they pull in together. I've had teens and they have challenged me in ways I couldn't understand even though I was here 24/7 and totally focused on them. I can only imagine the drama in a house with that many complications, even minus abuse. 

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

But do they really have entirely different viewpoints and values. Nope. You can listen to a lot of Kellyanne clips talking about what a nasty, mean, lying person her boss is( before she took the job).  KA and G are in the same party. She took a job for big bucks. She sold her soul for the honor of being a mouthpiece. Her daughter warned people not to “stan” her dad because he had what she thinks are the same awful values her mom has. 

Her mom can now revert back, give interviews, and make millions in future book deals. She may need it to pay for her daughter’s help.

These are two adults who got down and dirty in the gutter for years all for high profile jobs and are now paying the price. 

 

I do remember that. I was thinking that maybe she had changed her position as time passed. 

If she and her dh are truly in this together in the pursuit of fame and big money and KellyAnne is willing to lie and deceive the public by spouting a party line that she doesn’t believe (some of which I consider to be genuinely harmful,) and her dh is fully complicit in all of it, I have zero respect for either of them because they have both sold their souls for money and power. If KellyAnne is pulling a fast one on her boss, that’s between her and him. 

[Catwoman]

3 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

In 2016 I though the Conways were gearing up for some kind of reality show. They disagreed but we have seen political couples who disagreed before. But then it just got nastier and nastier and it didn't seem like they were playing it up for an audience anymore. It seemed genuine and mean. And regardless of what I think of Kellyanne's boss I just really thought George was a jerk for undermining his wife's career in that way. It's not like George's commentary was saving the country. Just making his wife's job more difficult. Kellyanne was successful and influential and her husband was just trying to sabotage her job. There was no playfulness or "it's just work" about their conflicts. They seemed very real and very hurtful and it was embarassing to watch. 

I hope they pull in together. I've had teens and they have challenged me in ways I couldn't understand even though I was here 24/7 and totally focused on them. I can only imagine the drama in a house with that many complications, even minus abuse. 

 

Yes, and let’s not forget that KellyAnne never bothered to defend George when her boss called him terrible names, either. That made me so uncomfortable — how can you not defend your own spouse when he or she is being publicly attacked and ridiculed?

Their relationship seems very bizarre. Neither of them seems to stick up for the other.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Catwoman

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

And last week the daughter wrote how devastated she was to see her mom speaking and sitting next to a homophobe and a rapist. What are the odds that one of those two told KA and G that it was past time to shut their daughter up? 

 

Is there a poll option for “both of the above?” 😉 

(Also, @Dotwithaperiod, your autocorrect changed one of the words, but I fixed it when I quoted you.)

Edited August 24, 2020 by Catwoman