sbgrace Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, sassenach said: https://covid19criticalcare.com This is about the MATH+ treatment protocol. Do you think it would be worth just taking the vit C, B1, thiamine and zinc now? We're already taking D. I'm really not much of a daily vitamin girl but this experience may convert me. I don't know of course. But oral vitamin C wouldn't replicate the levels they are getting by IV. I've seen Zinc combined with Zinc ionospheres in studies, and the one I recently looked at specified that the zinc had to be with the ionosphere to get it into the cell--they specifically said that zinc alone was not known to have effect. I see, though, that they are just adding it without anything else. It couldn't hurt I suppose. There may be some potential action given some of those things may help with other viruses. But I'm thinking Vitamin D has the most support for actually having prophylactic properties. If one of us gets sick, I plan to increase existing intake of vitamin C, increase existing intake of D, begin zinc with quercetin, and maybe I'll add some of those B vitamins. But I wouldn't do any of that preventatively at this point. (We are taking Vitamin D with Vitamin C, but we've always done that, including pre-virus) Edited to add: This sounds really promising. I wish there was more coordination to get information like this communicated to those that need it. Edited May 16, 2020 by sbgrace 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 I can see this happening here, the last paragraph I quoted about big “sharks” going in for the kill. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-12/if-landlords-get-wiped-out-wall-street-wins-not-renters “If Landlords Get Wiped Out, Wall Street Wins, Not Renters ... About half of the 43 million rental units in the country are owned by small businesses such as Shields’s one-woman enterprise. Unless help comes soon, “both renters and property owners will slide down the socioeconomic scale together,” says Emily Benfer, a visiting law professor at Columbia University. “It will have a ripple effect. Rent doesn’t just go to property owners, it pays for property taxes, mortgages, and salaries for the people who maintain buildings.” ... Lenders could be collateral damage, particularly regional banks that often finance local property investors. At the end of 2019, there was $1.6 trillion of outstanding mortgage debt on multifamily properties in the U.S., according to Paula Munger, vice president of research at the National Apartment Association (NAA), citing a Fed study. Defaults in the last recession reached 5% and could climb to as high as 10% during this much deeper downturn, she says. ... Small investors own much of the naturally occurring affordable housing in the U.S. If they’re forced to sell or abandon properties, more of the market might wind up in the hands of Wall Street firms, some of which have built up large portfolios of rental properties over the last decade or so. New owners with deeper pockets might opt to reposition low-income units to target wealthier occupants.” 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, sassenach said: https://covid19criticalcare.com This is about the MATH+ treatment protocol. Do you think it would be worth just taking the vit C, B1, thiamine and zinc now? We're already taking D. I'm really not much of a daily vitamin girl but this experience may convert me. Not in anywhere near the MATH intravenous amounts, but I am taking all of those at least frequently as part of a high quality multivitamin (Thorne) Or B complex (Emerald). And I have been taking a bit of Quercitin as a zinc ionophore. Aller-C type vitamin C had both C and Quercitin also bromelaine. I may go back to that. It seemed overly expensive for its components, but is easy. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, sassenach said: https://covid19criticalcare.com This is about the MATH+ treatment protocol. Do you think it would be worth just taking the vit C, B1, thiamine and zinc now? We're already taking D. I'm really not much of a daily vitamin girl but this experience may convert me. That treatment protocol is fascinating. It sounds like a unit using it in TX has treated 50 patients and had zero deaths. This definitely looks like something to keep an eye on! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, sbgrace said: I don't know of course. But oral vitamin C wouldn't replicate the levels they are getting by IV. I've seen Zinc combined with Zinc ionospheres in studies, and the one I recently looked at specified that the zinc had to be with the ionosphere to get it into the cell--they specifically said that zinc alone was not known to have effect. I see, though, that they are just adding it without anything else. It couldn't hurt I suppose. There may be some potential action given some of those things may help with other viruses. But I'm thinking Vitamin D has the most support for actually having prophylactic properties. If one of us gets sick, I plan to increase existing intake of vitamin C, increase existing intake of D, begin zinc with quercetin, and maybe I'll add some of those B vitamins. But I wouldn't do any of that preventatively at this point. (We are taking Vitamin D with Vitamin C, but we've always done that, including pre-virus) Edited to add: This sounds really promising. I wish there was more coordination to get information like this communicated to those that need it. A lot of people are chronically deficient or low in in zinc (as also often deficient or low vitamin d , magnesium, etc), so having base zinc level at a good level in first place could be helpful . when I recently did a home D test I could have also added mineral levels, and now wish I had done so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_Bear Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 This was in the US News and World today about superintendents disregarding the published guidelines and looking at the more specific CDC guidelines which were shelved. I linked the 63 page document in the second link. More specific details can be found later in the document for childcare p.42, schools/camps p.47 and churches p.52. Vulnerable workers, restaurants/bars, public transit follow those sections. https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2020-05-15/school-superintendents-dismiss-white-house-will-follow-leaked-cdc-guidance-on-reopening-schools?fbclid=IwAR2RyJIkfkg8asENRw_vSE8JO35ZRozUUgD0MbcZAu1EMhgMBSW3cjYZQoY https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6889330-Guidance-for-Opening-Up-America-Again-Framework.html 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 @whitehawk Article about dealing w/coronavirus for a looking illness: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/weird-hell-professor-advent-calendar-covid-19-symptoms-paul-garner If this wasn't engineered, it certainly found a way to hit all sorts of the worst if the worst in terms of crazy... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoraBora Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 On 5/14/2020 at 11:08 AM, Selkie said: Here's one I just saw yesterday: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8317001/Reopened-Texas-sees-surge-new-COVID-19-cases.html I'm still catching up on this thread so this may have already been posted. I see nothing in the article to indicate that the number of tests has increased as well. Texas has doubled its number of tests in the last two-ish weeks: 330k tests conducted in March and April and 330k from May 1-16. I'm not surprised that the raw number of new cases has increased, but I did expect it to be quite a bit higher. The governor's task force is closely watching the number of positive test results and the hospitalization rates to decide upon the next steps in opening up. Dallas County had a lower average number of new cases this week than last -- a hopeful trend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, DoraBora said: I'm still catching up on this thread so this may have already been posted. I see nothing in the article to indicate that the number of tests has increased as well. Texas has doubled its number of tests in the last two-ish weeks: 330k tests conducted in March and April and 330k from May 1-16. I'm not surprised that the raw number of new cases has increased, but I did expect it to be quite a bit higher. The governor's task force is closely watching the number of positive test results and the hospitalization rates to decide upon the next steps in opening up. Dallas County had a lower average number of new cases this week than last -- a hopeful trend. A good Twitter thread, exactly as it pertains to Texas: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoraBora Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, EmseB said: A good Twitter thread, exactly as it pertains to Texas: I think this is irresponsible reporting on CNN's part. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 And another misleading headline from NC. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 (edited) https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/05/16/uss-theodore-roosevelt-sailors-test-positive-coronavirus-261873?__twitter_impression=true reinfected sailors on theodore roosevelt ship up to 13 and also a case of TB Edited May 16, 2020 by Ausmumof3 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, DoraBora said: I think this is irresponsible reporting on CNN's part. Further down in the thread people are saying some states are counting antibody testing toward their total tests. Anyone know if this is true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 50 minutes ago, EmseB said: A good Twitter thread, exactly as it pertains to Texas: https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/texas-cases-covid-19-increasing-thousands-reopening/story?id=70720497&__twitter_impression=true this is a better more balanced article 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) Just a funny story about lockdown here 🙂 Social distancing rules under Level 2 has limited the number of people that can get into cafes and restaurants. For many people, that means having to wait outside for another patron to leave before they can get in for their favourite snack or caffeine fix - even if you're the Prime Minister. Jacinda Ardern was spotted waiting outside Olive Cafe on Cuba St on Saturday morning. Speaking to Stuff, a manager from the cafe said the Prime Minister had showed up without a booking, and waited outside with some other customers. "It was just a couple minutes, she was all good," he said. A diner at the cafe said they and some friends had just been seated when they saw Ardern, fiance Clarke Gayford, some friends and a bodyguard arrived. "But one of the workers had to awkwardly say it was full and there were no tables, and they left, and we were wondering if we should give them our table. "Mercifully it seems a group was then clearing out and one of the staff chased them down and they were seated." Edited May 17, 2020 by lewelma 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said: Further down in the thread people are saying some states are counting antibody testing toward their total tests. Anyone know if this is true? Yes. A handful are. At least one does have a report that splits them out, but you have to drill down for it. Just the other day, the Covid Tracking Project had a tweet asking that they not combine them: ttps://mobile.twitter.com/COVID19Tracking Possibly Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, New York,... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 minute ago, StellaM said: lol, yes, not much sign of Jacinda being The Great Power in this story! I really like that woman based on what I know of her. She seems to be a thoroughly decent human being. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said: https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/texas-cases-covid-19-increasing-thousands-reopening/story?id=70720497&__twitter_impression=true this is a better more balanced article I actually can't find a lot of difference in what it says compared to the thread I linked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoraBora Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, RootAnn said: Yes. A handful are. At least one does have a report that splits them out, but you have to drill down for it. Just the other day, the Covid Tracking Project had a tweet asking that they not combine them: ttps://mobile.twitter.com/COVID19Tracking Possibly Texas, Virginia, Arkansas, New York,... Could you point more clearly to the place in these tweets that report Texas Health officials as including antibody tests in the official Covid-test numbers? They are probably keeping track of antibody tests, but I'm interested in knowing whether they're mixing those with diagnostic tests. Edited May 17, 2020 by DoraBora silly spelling mistake 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 hour ago, DoraBora said: Could you point more clearly to the place in these tweets that report Texas Health officials as including antibody tests in the official Covid-test numbers? They are probably keeping track of antibody tests, but I'm interested in knowing whether they're mixing those with diagnostic tests. It isn't in that specific tweet-- although people responding point to Texas as being one of the state's that does so. Here is a news article I got from a quick query. Relevant quote below: https://www.texasobserver.org/covid-19-tests-combine-texas/amp/ A spokesperson for DSHS confirmed to the Observer that the agency includes “some antibody results” in its official statistics The point is that some states are including them without clearly delineating how many are antibody & how many are not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, RootAnn said: It isn't in that specific tweet-- although people responding point to Texas as being one of the state's that does so. Here is a news article I got from a quick query. Relevant quote below: https://www.texasobserver.org/covid-19-tests-combine-texas/amp/ The point is that some states are including them without clearly delineating how many are antibody & how many are not. It’s really hard to imagine why they wouldn’t be separated out in statistics. The more accurate the better decisions can be made surely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 hour ago, EmseB said: I actually can't find a lot of difference in what it says compared to the thread I linked? Well if you read down it mentions that increased testing may be a factor and references growth in deaths and level rates of hospitalisation. Enough info to get a broader picture I think. Death rates should lag so I’m not sure why they are still increasing in case that’s still from the previous peak. Then if lifting lockdown results in a second spike death rates should go up in two to three weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Us passed 1.5million cases and 90,000 deaths. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Global Times Fengman district in Jilin dials up #COVID19 risk level to high after 3 new locally transmitted confirmed cases detected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 https://www.texastribune.org/2020/05/16/700-new-coronavirus-cases-amarillo/amp/?utm_campaign=trib-social-buttons&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&__twitter_impression=true 700 new cases in a meat packing plant in Texas 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoraBora Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, RootAnn said: It isn't in that specific tweet-- although people responding point to Texas as being one of the state's that does so. Here is a news article I got from a quick query. Relevant quote below: https://www.texasobserver.org/covid-19-tests-combine-texas/amp/ The point is that some states are including them without clearly delineating how many are antibody & how many are not. Yeah, people saying stuff on Twitter isn't particularly meaningful to me. I had read the article you linked earlier today. It was the only one I could find on this subject at the time. The quote from a DHSH official indicating that some antibody test results are included in official statistics doesn't necessarily mean those results are mixed with diagnostic testing data -- the spokesperson didn't actually *say* that. The Texas DHSH releases TONS of statistics every day. Likely, the antibody test results are included in their overall data. Is it possible that the (left-leaning, anti-Gov Abbott) Observer meant to imply that his people are mixing that info? If it's true, that is troubling, but I'd like to see something more in the way of actual evidence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 https://apple.news/A78Lhc6vpRYa0yz8YueEvMQ china more lockdowns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 hour ago, DoraBora said: Yeah, people saying stuff on Twitter isn't particularly meaningful to me. I had read the article you linked earlier today. It was the only one I could find on this subject at the time. The quote from a DHSH official indicating that some antibody test results are included in official statistics doesn't necessarily mean those results are mixed with diagnostic testing data -- the spokesperson didn't actually *say* that. The Texas DHSH releases TONS of statistics every day. Likely, the antibody test results are included in their overall data. Is it possible that the (left-leaning, anti-Gov Abbott) Observer meant to imply that his people are mixing that info? If it's true, that is troubling, but I'd like to see something more in the way of actual evidence. Maybe they are getting it from this but it’s only talking about Virginia https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/05/covid-19-tests-combine-virginia/611620/ I don’t have time to read/research in detail right now but it doesn’t sound right that’s why I’m questioning it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-boy-9-dies-from-kawasaki-like-illness-in-french-hospital/9a306eb6-43ed-40c1-9747-e2bc90c7500e 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 China daily - First, second and third-graders of elementary schools in #Shanghai will return to school from June 2 as the epidemic wanes, and the city's public kindergartens will also reopen on the same day, local authorities said Saturday. bit.ly/2z3NH1g almost six months out of school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1shortmomto4 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Virginia is off the hook - and just wait because I believe it is going to get worse. It was only about 2 weeks ago in which providers were even offering the antibody testing and the question of the validity of the tests offered haven't even been discussed. I think there are a few labs that have been given approval for accuracy? Virginia was counting people as "new cases" each time the same person tested positive. If a person received a positive result on Monday and then for whatever reason were retested on Wednesday - that counted as 2 new cases for the state. So how many cases does my state really have? They started posting info positive results/number of tests per zip code - my zip equated to 40% of tests. The governor has been very very slow to get the ball rolling here - we are 49th (maybe 50th) in testing but how can that be. VA has always been at the top of all the "good" lists but, as of late, not so much. They are now focusing on providing a lot of free testing to all who want to drive up/walk up - do it yourself testing. There are two free testings events close to me on Monday so I guess by Wednesday/Thursday there will be record numbers of positive cases and the Governor will continue to keep this area locked down. People are done being locked down. The weekends come and the stores that they can shop in are flooded - and so are the parking lots - with used rubber gloves and masks just littered everywhere. Sorry to say but it looks like a third world country. I personally watched two women with their N95 masks and gloves exit Target, load up the car with their purchases and then use hand sanitizer over the gloves they had on and drive off with gloves and masks still on. Also saw a woman spray herself from head to toe with Lysol - a home health care provider ;-( My guess is this lack of testing and creative use of data results further enables the Federal government offices to remain closed so we continue to be unable to get our country moving once again. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) @DoraBora @Ausmumof3 I looked further for hard data on which states are mixing the testing results from PCR & serology with or without separating them. Arizona separates them out (but appears to count both kinds toward their test total) and Virginia doesn't. Other than that one article, I don't see hard data on Texas. It is hard to know either way without the state admitting it. I trust The Atlantic's reporting on this because of the Covid Tracking Project. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/611620/ Quote "A lack of federal guidelines has created huge variation in how states are reporting their COVID-19 data and in what kind of data they provide to the public. These gaps can be used for political advantage. In at least one state, Virginia, senior officials are blending the results of two different types of coronavirus test in order to report a more favorable result to the public. This harms the integrity of the data they use to make decisions, reassure residents, and justify reopening their economy. Other differences make it hard to track the pandemic. In at least three other states, officials have lumped together probable and confirmed COVID-19 deaths; most don’t specify how they’re counting deaths. While most states report the number of people who have been tested for the coronavirus, six states say they track the number of samples that have been tested—and California and New Jersey switched methods in the past few weeks." Edited May 17, 2020 by RootAnn Autocorrect "fixing" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, 1shortmomto4 said: Virginia is off the hook - and just wait because I believe it is going to get worse. It was only about 2 weeks ago in which providers were even offering the antibody testing and the question of the validity of the tests offered haven't even been discussed. I think there are a few labs that have been given approval for accuracy? Virginia was counting people as "new cases" each time the same person tested positive. If a person received a positive result on Monday and then for whatever reason were retested on Wednesday - that counted as 2 new cases for the state. So how many cases does my state really have? They started posting info positive results/number of tests per zip code - my zip equated to 40% of tests. The governor has been very very slow to get the ball rolling here - we are 49th (maybe 50th) in testing but how can that be. VA has always been at the top of all the "good" lists but, as of late, not so much. They are now focusing on providing a lot of free testing to all who want to drive up/walk up - do it yourself testing. There are two free testings events close to me on Monday so I guess by Wednesday/Thursday there will be record numbers of positive cases and the Governor will continue to keep this area locked down. People are done being locked down. The weekends come and the stores that they can shop in are flooded - and so are the parking lots - with used rubber gloves and masks just littered everywhere. Sorry to say but it looks like a third world country. I personally watched two women with their N95 masks and gloves exit Target, load up the car with their purchases and then use hand sanitizer over the gloves they had on and drive off with gloves and masks still on. Also saw a woman spray herself from head to toe with Lysol - a home health care provider ;-( My guess is this lack of testing and creative use of data results further enables the Federal government offices to remain closed so we continue to be unable to get our country moving once again. Wow that sounds really messy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I think the percentage of positives as a percentage of total tests is probably the most useful number to see if there's actually an increase or not. But reporting an increase in positive tests doesn't seem like an artificial inflation. Those people were still positive even if we didn't know it. That's what's been driving me crazy all along - reports of positive tests but no information on what that's likely to mean to the population at large - how many people are actually getting tested so how many more are likely to be positive. All along the practical information that we can actually get from the current test reporting has been crap. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Over 100,000 crew members still trapped on cruise ships around the world https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article242565281.html 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Global Times: Hotan jade trading market in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region under #COVID19 prevention, control measures bit.ly/2ZcIHSC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Nikolai Petrovsky is a Professor in the College of Medicine and Public Health at Flinders University. He is also Research Director, Vaxine Pty Ltd "An extremely important but still unanswered question is what was the source of COVID-19 virus. While COVID-19 has close similarities to SARS and other bat viruses no natural virus matching to COVID-19 has been found in nature despite an intensive search to find its origins. This raises the very legitimate question of whether the COVID-19 virus might be the result of human intervention. Certainly, our and other analyses of the genomic sequence of the virus do not reveal any artificial gene inserts that would be the hallmark of a gene jockey, genetic engineers who manipulate or even create viruses by splicing in artificial inserts into their genome. These are generally easily recognisable and hence clear signatures of human intervention in the creation of a virus. The fact that these artificial inserts are not present has been interpreted by some to mean this virus is not the result of human manipulation. However, this logic is incorrect as there are other ways in which humans can manipulate viruses and that is caused by natural selection. What do I mean? All viruses and bacteria mutate and adapt to their environment over time, with selection of the fittest individuals for survival in that particular environment. Take a bat coronavirus that is not infectious to humans, and force its selection by culturing it with cells that express human ACE2 receptor, such cells having been created many years ago to culture SARS coronaviruses and you can force the bat virus to adapt to infect human cells via mutations in its spike protein, which would have the effect of increasing the strength of its binding to human ACE2, and inevitably reducing the strength of its binding to bat ACE2. Viruses in prolonged culture will also develop other random mutations that do not affect its function. The result of these experiments is a virus that is highly virulent in humans but is sufficiently different that it no longer resembles the original bat virus. Because the mutations are acquired randomly by selection there is no signature of a human gene jockey, but this is clearly a virus still created by human intervention. My group in collaboration with other Australian researchers have been using a modelling approach to study the possible evolutionary origins of COVID-19 by modelling interactions between its spike protein and a broad variety of ACE2 receptors from many animals and humans. This work which we will publish on a prepress server next week shows that the strength of binding of COVID-19 to human ACE2 far exceeds the predicted strength of its binding to the ACE2 of any of the other species. This points to the virus having been selected for its high binding to human ACE2. In the absence of evidence of historic human infections with this virus, which could result in such selection, this either is a remarkable coincidence or a sign of human intervention. This, plus the fact that no corresponding virus has been found to exist in nature, leads to the possibility that COVID-19 is a human-created virus. It is therefore entirely plausible that the virus was created in the biosecurity facility in Wuhan by selection on cells expressing human ACE2, a laboratory that was known to be cultivating exotic bat coronaviruses at the time. Is so the cultured virus could have escaped the facility either through accidental infection of a staff member who then visited the fish market several blocks away and there infected others, or by inappropriate disposal of waste from the facility that either infected humans outside the facility directly or via a susceptible vector such as a stray cat that then frequented the market and resulted in transmission there to humans. Whilst the facts cannot be known at this time, the nature of this event and its proximity to a high-risk biosecurity facility at the epicentre of the outbreak demands a full and independent international enquiry to ascertain whether a virus of this kind of COVID-19 was being cultured in the facility and might have been accidentally released." Last updated: 17 Apr 2020 12:14pm this statement from a researcher here in Australia. Mostly popping this here so I can find it later but given its a few weeks old I’m also wondering if anyone has seen anything else related. 3 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 19 hours ago, maize said: I really like that woman based on what I know of her. She seems to be a thoroughly decent human being. I know. I’m so envious of the Kiwis’ having a great leader to face this challenge. I think basic human decency, respect, and empathy are pretty fundamental to uniting people in times of crisis. Of course truth and competency are helpful too. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2005/2005.06199.pdf link to the paper 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73349 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Sorry if already posted: Spain finds only 5% of the population has antibodies so far (14% in Madrid). https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-05-14/antibody-study-shows-just-5-of-spaniards-have-contracted-the-coronavirus.html 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73349 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Do y'all think Petrovsky's argument from ignorance is reasonable here? That if there were something like SARS-CoV-2 out in nature, we'd know about it? I thought we hadn't likely found all the types of fish or ants yet, let alone microscopic things. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, StellaM said: Post-opening public transport 'plan' for my city: The government are scrambling to come up with something. (Because apparently having 8 weeks to think about it before you announced an opening up of the economy wasn't enough, and despite being described as a 'major risk for another outbreak', it's the kind of thing you plan on the run over the weekend). Bright idea is caps on passenger numbers. 12 people per bus. Unless they quadruple the number of buses (hello gridlock) workers will find themselves having to queue at bus stops at least an hour earlier than usual, for up to or exceeding an hour, to get to work on time. And anyone in the middle of a route is basically stuffed. I estimate that instead of my usual 70-80 min commute, to get to work on time under these caps could take me another 45-75 minutes. One way. But still no mention of masks. Premier Gladys Berejiklian said the message from the government was for people to avoid travel before 10am and after 2pm, and plan their use of public transport in advance, with travel apps being updated to show expected capacity. I will be sure to get to my job starting at 9.15 by leaving after 10, and return home from my job that finishes at 2.30 before 2! If there were safe ways over, under, or around whatever is now a dangerous obstacle, would bike, electric bike etc be possible for many people and greatly reduce bus congestion? Like they are trying to get people in Europe to do? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 1 minute ago, StellaM said: Yes. But in my city, we are not set up for cycling. Partly that's because it's a hilly city, but also it's a spread out city, with many people living a long way from their jobs (up to 2hrs), and a city where roads for cars are king. I investigated e-bikes a few weeks ago, but looking at the route I'd have to take (major roads), I decided that riding to work also posed a health risk. It would take me 2hrs to walk to work, 44 min to bike ride. I'd ride if there were bike paths. For some people whose trip is much longer, they would be cycling for a looong time to get to work. For you personally, with case numbers down as much as they are, it seems like maybe your father driving you would make sense. Reasonably safe for him probably, and probably much safer for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 45 minutes ago, whitehawk said: Sorry if already posted: Spain finds only 5% of the population has antibodies so far (14% in Madrid). https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-05-14/antibody-study-shows-just-5-of-spaniards-have-contracted-the-coronavirus.html Also 2-4 pc of children meaning they are slightly lower than adults but still most likely capable of spreading the virus. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 19 minutes ago, Pen said: If there were safe ways over, under, or around whatever is now a dangerous obstacle, would bike, electric bike etc be possible for many people and greatly reduce bus congestion? Like they are trying to get people in Europe to do? Here in my state there are spare buses sitting around that could reduce congestion if they were put online! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) Which thread discussed things like University of Washington having tested older samples collected for flu to see if they had SARS-CoV-2? I wonder if the collections done for flu testing are adequate for CV19 testing. It seemed like getting a sample for CV19 testing was much more involved and difficult... had to be deep enough, right swab, and even then quite a few reports of negative results at certain times during illness positive at others. Then we are hearing that the Abbot test gives false negatives frequently if swabs were in culture media even fairly short time. Are swabs saved from November, December, January still going to give accurate results? Edited May 18, 2020 by Pen Swans is so much nicer than swabs 😊 but it’s swabs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Buses and trains here are running at 40% occupancy, with seats blocked off. Because of this, many people are choosing to still work from home even though almost all workplaces are open. . 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, whitehawk said: Do y'all think Petrovsky's argument from ignorance is reasonable here? That if there were something like SARS-CoV-2 out in nature, we'd know about it? I thought we hadn't likely found all the types of fish or ants yet, let alone microscopic things. Yeah I don’t totally agree with that in the paper they tested the virus ability to attach to the various proposed host animal cells and found it didn’t do to well. Much more successful with human cells which was the basis. The guy was working on a SARS1 vaccine back when that was a thing so I assume he knows what he’s talking about. However there’s one or two articles about him that make me wonder a bit (he was complaining about not getting approvals for his flu vax trials but the health dept saying he hadn’t met requires parameters. Having said that he holds a pretty high position and seems to be well respected. Interestingly the paper showed cat cells as being one of the most susceptible and I’ve been wondering why no one has looked at them as a possible intermediate host given they are known to be able to be infected and probably would eat bats too. the other thing that made me question the natural derived narrative a bit is that the lady who was studying them from what I have read had to search pretty hard to find a colony of bats infected with the virus. So they are there and exist and there is the people close by that it seems to jump to and from but it seems like a bit of a remote chance. Edited May 18, 2020 by Ausmumof3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2020/may/17/coronavirus-medics-turn-backs-on-belgiums-prime-minister-in-silent-protest-video?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1589736277 belgium protests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 https://www.france24.com/en/20200518-first-coronavirus-case-detected-in-ecuador-amazon-tribe 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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