Would you do something?

[Valley Girl]

5 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

if the local grocer is illegally selling cigs and alcohol to minors, yes, he/she should be locked up.

Yes. And the fact that stores ask for ID from people clearly of legal age says they don't want to run afoul of the law. So, I agree with Sneezyone. Yeah, they should be penalized.

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

Really, how does some teen kid get hooked up with getting boxes of pot from another part of the country mailed to him?  I so think the dad is involved.

my brother was dealing coke when he was a teen/twenty.  he was getting it somewhere.  he started with his own (small - maybe half a dozen plants) grow operation. that was around 1980.  (eta: which is why anyone claiming their "dozen" plants is for "personal sue" is lying through their teeth.

36 minutes ago, Valley Girl said:

This makes no sense.

Are you seriously comparing the owner of the local grocery store legally selling legal (albeit problematic) products produced in a legal way to people who are legally able to purchase them to somebody illegally selling potentially adulterated products that may or not be legal to use (depending on geography) to people who may or may not be legally able to buy them?

Sorry. Doesn't wash.

 

pot is legal in my state.  BUT - the seller/shop must be licensed.  they must obtain their products in a legal manner (incl. customers must be at least 21.).  they must report their doings (and when they get robbed - they can report it to the cops, vs illegal operations would be stupid to try.)

even though pot is legal in my state - someone selling in the manner described, would be charged with a felony.  (one because it could be an adulterated product, and two . .  the taxman wants his pound of flesh)

Edited November 3, 2019 by gardenmom5

[DawnM]

11 hours ago, Bluegoat said:

Really, how does some teen kid get hooked up with getting boxes of pot from another part of the country mailed to him?  I so think the dad is involved.

 

He had some friends who got him involved and I think it is a "ring" of sorts.  I don't know the whole story.  I hear bits and pieces.

Dad came to me to ask about treatment/rehab options/etc.....and we talked about it for a couple of weeks, dad did nothing, and then all of a sudden, dad was like, "We're good, he is fine, it isn't as bad as I thought."  Meanwhile, younger son is telling me that things are worse than ever, older son has backpacks full of different kinds of weed, scales, etc.....and that it is all sold through snapchat.  There are like 5,000 people on the snapchat group and one person will organize the "sale" and anyone who wants to buy or sell shows up to that location in the city with their money or their goods.

I am realizing now that Dad played into my sympathy but had no intention of actually getting his son help.  Older son will not speak to his mother and hasn't for over a year.  that is a very long story it and of itself, but Mom wanted to, well, ya know, be a parent and stop her son from using drugs.  Son prefers dad, dad let's him do whatever he wants.

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

He had some friends who got him involved and I think it is a "ring" of sorts.  I don't know the whole story.  I hear bits and pieces.

Dad came to me to ask about treatment/rehab options/etc.....and we talked about it for a couple of weeks, dad did nothing, and then all of a sudden, dad was like, "We're good, he is fine, it isn't as bad as I thought."  Meanwhile, younger son is telling me that things are worse than ever, older son has backpacks full of different kinds of weed, scales, etc.....and that it is all sold through snapchat.  There are like 5,000 people on the snapchat group and one person will organize the "sale" and anyone who wants to buy or sell shows up to that location in the city with their money or their goods.

I am realizing now that Dad played into my sympathy but had no intention of actually getting his son help.  Older son will not speak to his mother and hasn't for over a year.  that is a very long story it and of itself, but Mom wanted to, well, ya know, be a parent and stop her son from using drugs.  Son prefers dad, dad let's him do whatever he wants.

I wonder if dad's now in on the action, or at least in on the profits.

[annandatje]

I would pass on reporting to any agency out of fear father will lose his job and retirement.  Family probably already stressed financially from divorce so job loss would be devastating for the entire family.  No indication that father is abusing his sons but just making some poor parenting decisions.  Agree with you on forbidding your son to go to their apartment.

[Catwoman]

6 hours ago, annandatje said:

I would pass on reporting to any agency out of fear father will lose his job and retirement.  Family probably already stressed financially from divorce so job loss would be devastating for the entire family.  No indication that father is abusing his sons but just making some poor parenting decisions.  Agree with you on forbidding your son to go to their apartment.

 

Or... the police officer father should have thought about the possibility of losing his job and his retirement benefits before he allowed his son to deal drugs.  This goes way beyond “making some poor parenting decisions,” and it is made even worse by the fact that the father’s job is to uphold and enforce the law. 

Are we really supposed to give someone a pass for committing crimes because stopping that person from being a criminal would have a negative financial impact on his family?  That seems ridiculous to me.  Where do we draw the line? How bad does the crime have to be before a person should be reported? If dealing drugs isn’t enough, what is? Would you really be the family friend who said,  “Oh, well, of course everyone knows that Bob Smith is robbing people, killing them, and tossing their bodies in the dumpster behind Taco Bell, but his family is so nice and they need that money, so we all decided not to report him.”

[KungFuPanda]

12 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

He had some friends who got him involved and I think it is a "ring" of sorts.  I don't know the whole story.  I hear bits and pieces.

Dad came to me to ask about treatment/rehab options/etc.....and we talked about it for a couple of weeks, dad did nothing, and then all of a sudden, dad was like, "We're good, he is fine, it isn't as bad as I thought."  Meanwhile, younger son is telling me that things are worse than ever, older son has backpacks full of different kinds of weed, scales, etc.....and that it is all sold through snapchat.  There are like 5,000 people on the snapchat group and one person will organize the "sale" and anyone who wants to buy or sell shows up to that location in the city with their money or their goods.

I am realizing now that Dad played into my sympathy but had no intention of actually getting his son help.  Older son will not speak to his mother and hasn't for over a year.  that is a very long story it and of itself, but Mom wanted to, well, ya know, be a parent and stop her son from using drugs.  Son prefers dad, dad let's him do whatever he wants.

If the kid is so indiscreet that parents know about him, I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't already on the police's radar while they try to find the supplier.

[gardenmom5]

9 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

If the kid is so indiscreet that parents know about him, I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't already on the police's radar while they try to find the supplier.

my brother was never on the police radar.  he was actually stopped once (in a park) - but they thought he was buying, not selling, so he the confiscated the leather putch with pot in it - and sent him on his way.  (and left the larger stash alone.)

parents generally know a lot more of what is going on with their kids than the police do.

eta: my brother's bff (they're still close friends 40 years later) - was arrested and convicted on drug charges, spent time in prison - and my brother wasn't on their radar! (it did motivate him to get out of it.)

Edited November 3, 2019 by gardenmom5

[DawnM]

14 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

my brother was never on the police radar.  he was actually stopped once (in a park) - but they thought he was buying, not selling, so he the confiscated the leather putch with pot in it - and sent him on his way.  (and left the larger stash alone.)

parents generally know a lot more of what is going on with their kids than the police do.

eta: my brother's bff (they're still close friends 40 years later) - was arrested and convicted on drug charges, spent time in prison - and my brother wasn't on their radar! (it did motivate him to get out of it.)

 

I have been praying that the truth comes out, however it needs to come out.

[ttt]

18 hours ago, Catwoman said:

Are we really supposed to give someone a pass for committing crimes because stopping that person from being a criminal would have a negative financial impact on his family?  That seems ridiculous to me.  Where do we draw the line? How bad does the crime have to be before a person should be reported? If dealing drugs isn’t enough, what is? Would you really be the family friend who said,  “Oh, well, of course everyone knows that Bob Smith is robbing people, killing them, and tossing their bodies in the dumpster behind Taco Bell, but his family is so nice and they need that money, so we all decided not to report him.”

I agree with you.  Generations of wives of cops were forced to put up with domestic abuse because of this reasoning.  It sounds like this particular father is letting this happen while alienating the mother from her kids.  I understand concern for DawnM being impacted by her involvement, but I feel like if a family on this board was talking about their 18 year old selling drugs from their family home with younger kids living there the answer would be "kick them out, they are an adult".

[ktgrok]

On 11/2/2019 at 10:55 PM, Sneezyone said:

if the local grocer is illegally selling cigs and alcohol to minors, yes, he/she should be locked up.

 

On 11/2/2019 at 10:58 PM, Valley Girl said:

This makes no sense.

Are you seriously comparing the owner of the local grocery store legally selling legal (albeit problematic) products produced in a legal way to people who are legally able to purchase them to somebody illegally selling potentially adulterated products that may or not be legal to use (depending on geography) to people who may or may not be legally able to buy them?

Sorry. Doesn't wash.

 

Yes - I was comparing them to the quote by Valley Girl below. She wasn't talking about the legality, she was talking about marijuana being poison, putting people at risk, and ruining lives. Pretty sure the statistics will say that alcohol does all that as well. So I was asking if she also has that kind of animosity to people selling alcohol, tobacco, etc which are as dangerous if not more so. If she doesn't, than that would put the focus on the legality not the things she mentioned. 

On 11/2/2019 at 5:57 PM, Valley Girl said:

Yeah, that's kind of where I line up. I don't have a great deal of sympathy for drug dealers. (I don't care a whit that it's "only" weed at the moment.) They spread their poison, put their neighborhoods at risk, and ruin lives.

 

20 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Or... the police officer father should have thought about the possibility of losing his job and his retirement benefits before he allowed his son to deal drugs.  This goes way beyond “making some poor parenting decisions,” and it is made even worse by the fact that the father’s job is to uphold and enforce the law. 

Are we really supposed to give someone a pass for committing crimes because stopping that person from being a criminal would have a negative financial impact on his family?  That seems ridiculous to me.  Where do we draw the line? How bad does the crime have to be before a person should be reported? If dealing drugs isn’t enough, what is? Would you really be the family friend who said,  “Oh, well, of course everyone knows that Bob Smith is robbing people, killing them, and tossing their bodies in the dumpster behind Taco Bell, but his family is so nice and they need that money, so we all decided not to report him.”

 

1 hour ago, ttt said:

I agree with you.  Generations of wives of cops were forced to put up with domestic abuse because of this reasoning.  It sounds like this particular father is letting this happen while alienating the mother from her kids.  I understand concern for DawnM being impacted by her involvement, but I feel like if a family on this board was talking about their 18 year old selling drugs from their family home with younger kids living there the answer would be "kick them out, they are an adult".

Again, there is a significant difference to many many people between marijuana and say, assaulting or killing people. 

Wanting a man's family to be devastated financially, and a teenager to have a lifelong felony conviction that may keep him from ever being gainfully employed, over a substance that arguably does less harm than alcohol, is a pretty extreme stance to take on pot. Is it his fault? Sure. But will good come of it? 

[gardenmom5]

9 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Again, there is a significant difference to many many people between marijuana and say, assaulting or killing people.  

I grew up in a home with drug dealing.  the kind of people who hang out in such homes, even if it's just "friends" of the dealer, are bad people.  I had to lock myself in my room for my physical safety more than once. in. my. own. home.

I'm sick of people who think selling pot is not a big deal.

[ttt]

What about the possible financial harm to the apartment owner who is paying a cop to maintain order and security and root out these exact behaviors that this cop is allowing in his workplace/home?  Even if pot was legal, I'm sure his lease doesn't say his son can run a business out of the apartment.  I don't think criminal prosecution is the best way to help the 18 year old.  The mom wants him to get appropriate help for his underlying issues, the dad is blowing it off.  IIRC the dad has convinced the court that the mom should lose custody by at least in part trading on his professional reputation.  The mom seems to welcome DSS involvement.  I would be 99% less concerned if the dad told the 18 year old "I know you are using, even personal amounts are not allowed here (because I could lose 2 of my jobs and my pension), it's to be kept from your younger (minor) brother, word of this can't get out anywhere."  Instead he's got scales and bags of pot out in the open in front of minors who's parents are mandatory reporters.  

[Anaya Koerner]

hi

[scholastica]

45 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Yes - I was comparing them to the quote by Valley Girl below. She wasn't talking about the legality, she was talking about marijuana being poison, putting people at risk, and ruining lives. Pretty sure the statistics will say that alcohol does all that as well. So I was asking if she also has that kind of animosity to people selling alcohol, tobacco, etc which are as dangerous if not more so. If she doesn't, than that would put the focus on the legality not the things she mentioned. 

 

 

Again, there is a significant difference to many many people between marijuana and say, assaulting or killing people. 

Wanting a man's family to be devastated financially, and a teenager to have a lifelong felony conviction that may keep him from ever being gainfully employed, over a substance that arguably does less harm than alcohol, is a pretty extreme stance to take on pot. Is it his fault? Sure. But will good come of it? 

Nobody wants those things for this man and his family. The current situation is unsafe, untenable and illegal. There is a minor child also in the home. Honestly, if the kid doesn’t want a felony conviction and the dad wants his job, they should stop the dealing right now. It’s no-one’s fault but their own. There are many court diversion programs for those with non-violent offenses, especially first offenses. There is no guarantee that he will end up seeing even one day in a jail. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by scholastica

[ktgrok]

33 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I grew up in a home with drug dealing.  the kind of people who hang out in such homes, even if it's just "friends" of the dealer, are bad people.  I had to lock myself in my room for my physical safety more than once. in. my. own. home.

I'm sick of people who think selling pot is not a big deal.

It sounds like this kid is coordinating a group buy of pot - not good, no, but it doesn't sound like there are gang members hanging out, etc etc. 

And you can be tired of it, but many of us are sick of kids having their lives totally derailed by criminal convictions over a substance that has less dangers than other, legal substances. 

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, scholastica said:

Nobody wants those things for this man and his family. The current situation is unsafe, untenable and illegal. There is a minor child also in the home. Honestly, if the kid doesn’t want a felony conviction and the dad wants his job, they should stop the dealing right now. It’s no-one’s fault but their own. There are many court diversion programs for those with non-violent offenses, especially first offenses. There is no guarantee that he will end up seeing even one day in a jail. 

I should clarify - my comment that people wanted that was directly in relation to at least one person, maybe more, expressing "zero sympathy" for the kid because he is spreading poison and ruining lives. 

I get being concerned, and I even get feeling the need to report it, given the available options. I don't get or at least I don't agree with a "let them hang" (figuratively) attitude to a kid regarding marijuana. 

[unsinkable]

@DawnM

[DawnM]

32 minutes ago, Anaya Koerner said:

hi

 

Did you wish to contribute to the conversation?  

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Wanting a man's family to be devastated financially, and a teenager to have a lifelong felony conviction that may keep him from ever being gainfully employed, over a substance that arguably does less harm than alcohol, is a pretty extreme stance to take on pot. Is it his fault? Sure. But will good come of it? 

 

My personal opinion is, let the truth come out, the legal system can choose to do whatever they wish with the information.  If it is no big deal, then the courts will say so.  I am not the bad guy here.  I am honestly WAY more concerned about the dad being so complicit in all of this.

[ktgrok]

16 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

Even in states where marijuana is legal what this young man is doing is still illegal, though. Being a drug dealer is bad and most often comes with other very bad things. (Isn't the dealer an adult? He shouldn't be referred to as a kid in that case.)

He knows what he is doing is illegal and very very dangerous, so if he gets a felony that's on him. 

He's a teenager, right? Or young adult? So no, he may not know how dangerous it is. Brain not fully formed, etc. 

16 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

My personal opinion is, let the truth come out, the legal system can choose to do whatever they wish with the information.  If it is no big deal, then the courts will say so.  I am not the bad guy here.  I am honestly WAY more concerned about the dad being so complicit in all of this.

Given how many non violent offenders we have locked up, being mistreated, losing voting rights, losing chance to be gainfully employed, being assaulted, being recruited into gangs while in prison, etc, I wouldn't trust that. We incarcerate ridiculous numbers of people every day in the country. 

[ktgrok]

Info on penalties for pot sales and use https://norml.org/laws/item/federal-penalties-2

I know it is illegal. I also know that morality and legality are not the same thing. It is indeed a crappy situation, but I think there is room for people to have various opinions about what should be done. 

[EmseB]

19 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

He's a teenager, right? Or young adult? So no, he may not know how dangerous it is. Brain not fully formed, etc. 

Given how many non violent offenders we have locked up, being mistreated, losing voting rights, losing chance to be gainfully employed, being assaulted, being recruited into gangs while in prison, etc, I wouldn't trust that. We incarcerate ridiculous numbers of people every day in the country. 

Young adults don't know that dealing drugs is dangerous because of brain development? C'mon now. Young adults may be less risk averse on the whole, but this isn't an argument for the kid not knowing that dealing drugs is a felony that could ruin his life.

Look, if he was just using for himself, people would have very different opinions about what you're saying. But dealing large amounts, getting it in the mail, having a father in LE that's complicit...this isn't about some wide-eyed naive teenager who doesn't know what he's got himself into and, poor him, he doesn't understand the risks or what's facing him if he gets caught. Aside from the fact that kids now are probably more educated on illegal drug use than any previous generation, if he's dealing the stuff he certainly understands the risks, as does his dad. Dealing is much different than a little "harmless" pot use among friends. Especially if he's getting it in the mail and has no idea what's in it and could possibly kill someone with whatever he sells them.

[scholastica]

27 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Info on penalties for pot sales and use https://norml.org/laws/item/federal-penalties-2

I know it is illegal. I also know that morality and legality are not the same thing. It is indeed a crappy situation, but I think there is room for people to have various opinions about what should be done. 

Chances are, this will be dealt with at the local level and with much less draconian consequences. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, ttt said:

What about the possible financial harm to the apartment owner who is paying a cop to maintain order and security and root out these exact behaviors that this cop is allowing in his workplace/home?  Even if pot was legal, I'm sure his lease doesn't say his son can run a business out of the apartment.  I don't think criminal prosecution is the best way to help the 18 year old.  The mom wants him to get appropriate help for his underlying issues, the dad is blowing it off.  IIRC the dad has convinced the court that the mom should lose custody by at least in part trading on his professional reputation.  The mom seems to welcome DSS involvement.  I would be 99% less concerned if the dad told the 18 year old "I know you are using, even personal amounts are not allowed here (because I could lose 2 of my jobs and my pension), it's to be kept from your younger (minor) brother, word of this can't get out anywhere."  Instead he's got scales and bags of pot out in the open in front of minors who's parents are mandatory reporters.  

in states where pot is legal (I live in one) - it is still a controlled substance.  - you must be licensed by. the. state. to sell pot.  (iow: selling it out of your home, is still illegal.  meeting in a park  with intent to sell a controlled substance - is still illegal.)  you are not allowed to sell to anyone one under 21.  you must pay taxes.   if you are not doing ALL THREE of those things (and there are more) - you are engaging in illegal activity, and they will come after you. (especially if there is volume)

pot "shops" - attract thieves who want the product, without paying for it.   even legal ones get robbed, illegal ones based in someone's home/apartment are putting other people at risk.

 

[EmseB]

27 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Info on penalties for pot sales and use https://norml.org/laws/item/federal-penalties-2

I know it is illegal. I also know that morality and legality are not the same thing. It is indeed a crappy situation, but I think there is room for people to have various opinions about what should be done. 

Sure, but that's an argument about what laws should be, not what they actually are. Not to mention, if the guy wants to open a dispensary with licensing and inspections, he'd do that. There are plenty of legal ways and places to sell pot. What he wants to be doing is selling it illegally, under his cop father's protection, which is actually super dangerous because you don't know what's in the product being sold and you could get involved with all sorts of unsavory people, and that sort of thing is inherently unsafe and immoral.

[gardenmom5]

35 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Info on penalties for pot sales and use https://norml.org/laws/item/federal-penalties-2

I know it is illegal. I also know that morality and legality are not the same thing. It is indeed a crappy situation, but I think there is room for people to have various opinions about what should be done. 

this is about the dad, a cop, who is allowing this in his home.

the kid is getting his supply from a 2nd state - that makes it interstate drug running and it has become a felony.  this isn't someone who is just selling stuff on the side from his own plants.  this isn't a "small" operation.

[annandatje]

Older son is the one dealing pot, not the policeman father.  Are police required to report their children's crimes to authorities?

[Catwoman]

14 minutes ago, annandatje said:

Older son is the one dealing pot, not the policeman father.  Are police required to report their children's crimes to authorities?

 

I would assume so. How could a person swear to uphold the law if his own family was exempt from following the law? 

[ktgrok]

I again am saying I get why people think this should be reported. 

I'm also trying to show that there are reasons people might think differently. If one thinks pot should be legal, one doesn't think pot crossing state lines via mail is any more morally corrupt than mail order wine clubs. 

I don't personally agree that illegal means I automatically report. The good that comes from reporting would need to be weighed against the bad that could happen. Personally, I think it is an very bad situation for the teen dealing but I also think that reporting will likely end up with him and others in a worse situation. 

As for him being knowledgable about how dangerous it is, I'm sure he thinks HIS supplier is totally legit and wouldn't sell him bad stuff. Teens can be dumb like that. 

I hav emuch stronger feelings about the father, but see no way to address that without causing other effects I personally would not want to put in motion. Again, not saying there is not a huge amount of room for other perspectives and decisions. Just not willing to say that the only "right" thing is to address drug issues via the criminal system. Especially where kids are concerned, and it is likely the younger boy will get swept up into the mess if the father and older one are arrested. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, annandatje said:

Older son is the one dealing pot, not the policeman father.  Are police required to report their children's crimes to authorities?

parents who allow drug dealing out of their home, or allow underage drinking parties at their home - are considered accessories.  this isn't about him being a cop - this is about how he is now an accessory to a felony because he's allowing this in his home..

kid dealing is overage - he could kick him out.   considering he thought it was a problem, then he said it's all fine and dandy while the younger kid said everything is worse - I wouldn't be surprised if he's now profiting from it.

[EmseB]

14 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I again am saying I get why people think this should be reported. 

I'm also trying to show that there are reasons people might think differently. If one thinks pot should be legal, one doesn't think pot crossing state lines via mail is any more morally corrupt than mail order wine clubs.

I don't personally agree that illegal means I automatically report. The good that comes from reporting would need to be weighed against the bad that could happen. Personally, I think it is an very bad situation for the teen dealing but I also think that reporting will likely end up with him and others in a worse situation. 

As for him being knowledgable about how dangerous it is, I'm sure he thinks HIS supplier is totally legit and wouldn't sell him bad stuff. Teens can be dumb like that. 

I hav emuch stronger feelings about the father, but see no way to address that without causing other effects I personally would not want to put in motion. Again, not saying there is not a huge amount of room for other perspectives and decisions. Just not willing to say that the only "right" thing is to address drug issues via the criminal system. Especially where kids are concerned, and it is likely the younger boy will get swept up into the mess if the father and older one are arrested. 

None of that should be laid at the feet of the person reporting illegal activity. It's not the reporter's fault that the cop would lose his pension, or get fired, or the kid would go to jail, or the family would suffer. And what's happening as outlined by the OP isn't a victimless crime in any case. The consequences you outline above are not consequences of reporting, but consequences of committing a crime. It's not the job of the person reporting a crime to weigh the good and the bad, especially if she's a mandated reporter. That's the job of the courts and ultimately the job of the person who is committing the crime in the first place, no? And if the dad is knowingly putting his minor son at risk, then he should be weighing the good with the bad and maybe stop being shady.

And the bolded is just not true. There are plenty of people who think it should be legal who think that sourcing matters, precisely because if you're getting it shipped to you from somewhere else you are running the risk of not knowing exactly what you're getting. There are legal, benign substances like honey or olive oil that have strict import and transportation regulations so that people know what they're buying and selling. Mail order wine clubs aren't a free for all either. It's not like making something legal means anything goes as far as interstate commerce is concerned. It's not a moral issue except in that it's a safety issue for those consuming the product. In any case, it's not like this kid is attempting to do anything legitimate so there are no safety controls at all

To the second bolded, or he simply doesn't care and wants to make money. Not all teens are dumb. I would say most are smarter than you're giving this kid credit for, given he's managing to run his own business both on the buying and selling side through the US mail and his cop dad. Is he even a teen?

I keep thinking of Bob Loblaw saying, "Why should you go to jail for a crime someone else noticed?"

[gardenmom5]

this kid is getting his supply from California where sources are *known* to have been adulterated with fentanyl. iow: his source is questionable.  go tell the loved ones of those who've died using those products you dont' think it's worth reporting to the police/authorities and putting a stop to its trafficking.

the cop is, at a minimum, turning a blind eye to repeated felonies in his home.  indicates he can be bought - who knows how many others he'll turn a blind eye, for a price.

[gardenmom5]

and about the arguments about alcohol - well, it's regulated.  they know where it is coming from. they know it's not "adulterated".   moonshine is still illegal, because it's a big fat question mark about it's safety.

 

if this guy loses his pension - he will have no one but himself to blame.

 

[katilac]

On 11/2/2019 at 12:16 PM, DawnM said:

According to the kid, his brother gets it shipped in unmarked boxes from California.  Crazy.

Oh, hmm, I think this changes my thoughts to some extent. I was picturing more of a local, low-level type thing. A teen selling to his friends and their friends. 
 

[Bluegoat]

Quote

 If one thinks pot should be legal, one doesn't think pot crossing state lines via mail is any more morally corrupt than mail order wine clubs. 

 

mail order wine clubs operate according to the law.

Booze and cigarettes are legal, but if you are running them illegally across borders and selling them tax free, that is something the law takes pretty seriously.  And it's big business that very often involves organised crime.

[Katy]

I'm pretty sure that unless it's a large quantity people who ship pot from California to other states use UPS or Fed Ex, which keeps it as a misdemeanor.  At least that's what I was told as a college kid when someone I knew got a shipment from a friend.

It will be interesting to find out what CPS says/does.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

Oh, hmm, I think this changes my thoughts to some extent. I was picturing more of a local, low-level type thing. A teen selling to his friends and their friends. 
 

according to previous posts - he is in an Instagram network to coordinate buyers and sellers.  this isn't just some neighborhood kid dealing.

[DawnM]

12 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

according to previous posts - he is in an Instagram network to coordinate buyers and sellers.  this isn't just some neighborhood kid dealing.

 

Now you are exaggerating. (J/K!)

It is only Snapchat.  (🤣🤣). 

 

[katilac]

23 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

Now you are exaggerating. (J/K!)

It is only Snapchat.  (🤣🤣). 

 

Well, as long as it's not on Insta! I think that's an aggravating circumstance. 

[ktgrok]

I find it very interesting that everyone is saying that the person reporting has no moral responsibility for what happens to the kids, that the older one decided to sell it so it is all on him. But on the other hand, think the kid selling it does have moral responsibility for what happens to the people he sells it too. I mean, by the same logic one could say well, they know the risk they take when they buy it. And again, I'm not arguing at all the legality of it. Obviously it is illegal. And yes, I know alcohol is legal. I was arguing the moral issues tied up in all this, not the legal ones. 

And not even saying that what this teen and his dad are doing is morally right - not at all. I'm saying that to ME, there is also the moral issue of what harm comes from reporting vs what benefits come from reporting. 

[Frances]

46 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I find it very interesting that everyone is saying that the person reporting has no moral responsibility for what happens to the kids, that the older one decided to sell it so it is all on him. But on the other hand, think the kid selling it does have moral responsibility for what happens to the people he sells it too. I mean, by the same logic one could say well, they know the risk they take when they buy it. And again, I'm not arguing at all the legality of it. Obviously it is illegal. And yes, I know alcohol is legal. I was arguing the moral issues tied up in all this, not the legal ones. 

And not even saying that what this teen and his dad are doing is morally right - not at all. I'm saying that to ME, there is also the moral issue of what harm comes from reporting vs what benefits come from reporting. 

Without knowing the exact laws and how similar cases of eighteen year olds are handled in their particular jurisdiction, I don’t think we can know all of the harm that might happen or the good that might come from it. Perhaps the older son will be sentenced to rehab and probation as a first time offender and being away from his dad and friends will help him turn his life around. What if stopping his distribution ring prevents someone from dying due to bad product? Maybe the younger boy will be sent to live with his mom who at least sounds like she wants to do right by the older son. As for the dad, I just don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for him. It sounds like he is not only violating his oath of office and likely his security contract with the apartment manager, but putting a whole lot of people at risk, not the least of which are his two sons. It sounds like only something major such as losing his job and his apartment will wake him up to reality.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Frances

[Sneezyone]

30 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

What harm is caused by not reporting, though? So so much harm can be caused by not reporting drug dealers just because one thinks pot should be legal. Do you know drug dealers? I do and know all kinds of harm they have caused.

I have to believe that people are just totally ignorant about the kinds of risks these people pose within the community.  It’s all harmless and cute until your neighborhood is affected. Having lots of cash attracts armed thieves. Stashing lots of drugs (even weed) in a home attracts armed thieves. Selling to random people attracts all kinds of criminals too, many of whom won’t just use weed. This is a household of three in a complex with tens or hundreds of other people who deserve safety too. Not to mention the broader community that deserves a better cop than the one they have.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Sneezyone

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Frances said:

Without knowing the exact laws and how similar cases of eighteen year olds are handled in their particular jurisdiction, I don’t think we can know all of the harm that might happen or the good that might come from it. Perhaps the older son will be sentenced to rehab and probation as a first time offender and being away from his dad and friends will help him turn his life around. What if stopping his distribution ring prevents someone from dying due to bad product? Maybe the younger boy will be sent to live with his mom who at least sounds like she wants to do right by the older son. As for the dad, I just don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for him. It sounds like he is not only violating his oath of office and likely his security contract with the apartment manager, but putting a whole lot of people at risk, not the least of which are his two sons. It sounds like only something major such as losing his job and his apartment will wake him up to reality.

I don't have much worry about the father - more on the impact his loss of an income will have on his kids. Will his kids end up on the street because mom can't afford her rent without child support? No idea. Will people be saved because the pot this kid was importing was tainted? No idea. Will someone die because instead of buying this kid's pot they buy from someone else and get tainted drugs that way? No idea. Is there a steady stream of gun toting gang members going in and out of this apartment complex putting others in danger as they show up day and night to buy their pot? Or is it that every 3 months he coordinates a group buy and among snap chat friends and acquaintances and meets them somewhere public to make the exchange? No idea. 

Which was kind of my point - there are a ton of variables here. And because of that it isn't as simple (to me) as "it is illegal, therefore report it". 

[EmseB]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

I find it very interesting that everyone is saying that the person reporting has no moral responsibility for what happens to the kids, that the older one decided to sell it so it is all on him. But on the other hand, think the kid selling it does have moral responsibility for what happens to the people he sells it too. I mean, by the same logic one could say well, they know the risk they take when they buy it. And again, I'm not arguing at all the legality of it. Obviously it is illegal. And yes, I know alcohol is legal. I was arguing the moral issues tied up in all this, not the legal ones. 

And not even saying that what this teen and his dad are doing is morally right - not at all. I'm saying that to ME, there is also the moral issue of what harm comes from reporting vs what benefits come from reporting. 

Your logic doesn't hold. 

The person who bears the culpability *is* the person committing the crime. So in the case of someone using tainted weed, two people share culpability: the person selling laced drugs and the person using them. Well, more than two people if you include who laced it,  etc. But the person who dies usually gets out of their legal snares because they are dead. And if they don't die, it's not like they can use the legal system without incriminating themselves. In any case, no one is saying a buyer wouldn't be responsible for their own choices. The thread isn't about that though, it's about this guy selling drugs.

Reporting a crime is not a crime. What the drug dealer is doing is already causing an unsafe environment for his minor brother.  The fact that he could be arrested and cops could turn the family's life upside down is part of the unsafe environment *he* is creating along with his dad. They are endangering the brother, not the person who wants the criminal activity stopped for the safety of others.

Edited November 5, 2019 by EmseB

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Your logic doesn't hold. 

The person who bears the culpability *is* the person committing the crime. So in the case of someone using tainted weed, two people share culpability: the person selling laced drugs and the person using them. Well, more than two people if you include who laced it,  etc. But the person who dies usually gets out of their legal snares because they are dead. And if they don't die, it's not like they can use the legal system without incriminating themselves. In any case, no one is saying a buyer wouldn't be responsible for their own choices. The thread isn't about that though, it's about this guy selling drugs.

Reporting a crime is not a crime. What the drug dealer is doing is already causing an unsafe environment for his minor brother.  The fact that he could be arrested and cops could turn the family's life upside down is part of the unsafe environment *he* is creating along with his dad. They are endangering the brother, not the person who wants the criminal activity stopped for the safety of others.

Again, I was not speaking to the legality of it. At all. 

[EmseB]

Also, DSS is supposed to be the entity weighing what happens to the minor child and if he is in danger or what not. A reporter is just supposed to alert them to the possibility that a dangerous situation may exist. If a teacher (or school counselor) sees possible abuse or possible neglect or something not quite right, they are supposed to report it and let DSS sort it out, not weigh out what may or may not happen to a family's income or stability if DSS finds the situation is really as bad as all that. If the situation warrants turning a family upside down it isn't because someone *reported* an issue. It's because there was an issue.

[ktgrok]

5 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Also, DSS is supposed to be the entity weighing what happens to the minor child and if he is in danger or what not. A reporter is just supposed to alert them to the possibility that a dangerous situation may exist. If a teacher (or school counselor) sees possible abuse or possible neglect or something not quite right, they are supposed to report it and let DSS sort it out, not weigh out what may or may not happen to a family's income or stability if DSS finds the situation is really as bad as all that. If the situation warrants turning a family upside down it isn't because someone *reported* an issue. It's because there was an issue.

It isn't what DSS would do that I was talking about - it was about the criminal ramifications. And by no means is our justice system, well, particularly just when it comes to drug crimes. 

Now, if this is a white kid, his chances are way better, so there is that. 

[EmseB]

2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Again, I was not speaking to the legality of it. At all. 

I'm speaking to moral culpability as well (though my post was confusing because I did speak of both moral and legal aspects,  sorry!).

To be more clear: someone reporting illegal activity does not bear moral culpability for consequences of said illegal activity even if the perpetrator is caught because of the report. There may be reasons why a person wouldn't want to report a crime, but trying to figure out what might happen to a criminal, to their family, as if the reporter could predict those things or could be morally responsible for them would be madness.

[EmseB]

3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

It isn't what DSS would do that I was talking about - it was about the criminal ramifications. And by no means is our justice system, well, particularly just when it comes to drug crimes. 

Now, if this is a white kid, his chances are way better, so there is that. 

Again, the reporter of said crimes is not responsible for someone else breaking the law. Morally, legally, whatever...not responsible. It doesn't matter if you're talking about DSS or income or convictions.

Again, if we were talking about pot growing and use among friends, you'd get no argument from me. What we're actually talking about is an LEO and his adult son selling weed they ordered via mail on a social media platform while they have a minor in their home who ostensibly has a social life with other minors like the OP's son who may be at an age or stage of life where they might be particularly enticed into drug use, especially with a cop dad covering for them. This isn't a petty possession charge or someone getting high in their own basement.