My parents did not attend my niece’s wedding

[Ginevra]

And it’s just made everything so weird. They said it was health reasons, but my sister does not believe that and I think it doesn’t quite hold water, either. My sister thinks it’s because of a lifestyle choice my parents don’t understand in my sister’s kid (not the one who was marrying). So like, sister thinks parents would not come to the wedding because of having to tolerate the bride’s sibling. 

Part of what made this worse is they did not tell her they were not coming. My sister heard it from another sibling ON the wedding day. My parents had dropped hints they might not come with a bunch of vaguely medical “reasons” (excuses), but they didn’t say anything either way, which left my sister scrambling to fix the processional and some details that went with that. (Song selection and stuff.) 

Anyway. Now it is so awkward. I have not talked to my parents since before the wedding. I meant to but then I knew sister had a huge fight with my mom about it and I neither wanted to act like I knew nothing about the fight, nor did I especially want to dig it up and lecture my mom on how she should have gone or at least given them warning they were not coming. Now we’re coming towards the holidays. My sister plans to never host a holiday meal for my folks again. It’s awkward af. Even if *I* host, it will be super awkward; my sister will be super uncomfortable, possibly stewing mad, my parents will be oblivious...

I feel very sensitive to the fact that my mom at least, possibly dad too, is not long for this world. My mother has terminal health problems. My dad has a dodgy heart. My mom is not 100% of mental clarity and I give her somewhat a pass on some of her ways because of it. But my sister is so very hurt. She will not give my mom a pass. I just think it’s better to try to make peace, but also, my parents will never apologize. They believe they are right. So that is hard for my sis. 

I know this isn’t my problem to fix, but in some ways, I wish it were. I just don’t want things to be ugly for Christmas. But they might be! 

Probably best not to quote all of this...

[school17777]

That’s sad for your sister and your niece to not have her grandparents attend, basically blowing off her wedding.

Of course this makes it awkward for everyone.  Yours and your sister’s holidays shouldn’t change because of this.  If your parents are choosing not to attend because of a grandchild’s choices, still continue you on with your traditions without them.

eta:  I wonder if your parents are related to my stepmother because this is the crap she pulls on my family (and my dad lets her).

Edited October 28, 2019 by school17777

[Selkie]

Assuming your sister is right about why they didn't come, that is a seriously crappy thing to do. I would have a very difficult time forgiving that. So sorry you are stuck dealing with all the awkwardness of the situation.

 

[Annie G]

So they blew off one granddaughter’s wedding because of another granddaughter’s life choice? That makes me so sad. For both nieces.  And it’s weird to me that your parents would come to a holiday meal but not a wedding. 
At the very least the parties need to sit down and discuss is even if it results in ‘agree to disagree’.  Without discussing it, your sister is going to have a difficult time moving forward. And if your parents did indeed skip it for a reason other than illness, maybe they should just say so instead of not being genuine. 

[Shoeless]

Ouch. I can see why your sister would be hurt. 

Are you thinking of hosting everyone for Christmas at your home, where they'd all show up nursing a grudge and making the day tense for everyone? If so, I'd be tempted to encourage your sister and niece to visit the new in-laws and you host your parents.  Time and distance may help. 

I've been the relative with a grudge at Christmas, and I was glad that my dad had another place to spend the holiday.  

[catz]

21 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Explain that of course you love her, and that you can't pick sides in a situation like this so could she please, not necessarily give the parents a pass, but at least pretend, for you and your kids, for the family gathering.

I would personally struggle with this so hard if it were my child getting judged and shunned.  I will always pick my kids over over other relatives including my parents.  Assuming no one is breaking any laws or anything like that.  So I can understand the sister's point of view too.  It's hard to know without knowing how sound of mind they are.  If they wouldn't tolerate a wedding over this, will they tolerate the holidays?  I wouldn't necessarily want to bank my holidays with my own kids hoping that it works out either.  I think it's more hurtful they just didn't show than had reached out prior and talked to your sister about it.  I would not want to do holidays with them without a pretty deep conversation prior.  I was raised in a family where the elephant in the room was just ignored and the most meek in the group were taught to stuff their feelings.  That is so emotionally unhealthy.

Anyway Quill, so sorry you're in the middle!  I would definitely not be volunteering to host both sides at the same time!  

I think choosing not to attend a wedding you really could easily attend sends a loud message.  Be sure you're ready to live with life long ramifications before you chose to do it.  😥

Edited October 29, 2019 by FuzzyCatz

[Guest]

Quote

So, perhaps you could talk to your sister, after a little bit of time has passed, and maybe validate her feelings, tell her she's totally right, but that for you, and your kids, because she loves all of you guys, could she just choose to believe that mom's terminal health condition, lack of mental clarity, and dad's dodgy heart were the reasons. 

This is what I have kind of tried to do; I tell her she is totally right to be hurt, I would be too, I agree with her perception of the “reasons”, etc. But I have also said, “you know I don’t even think mom knows what she’s saying half the time.” And I have also said to the effect of, “I doubt we have many more years to be bothered by my mom’s bad decisions.” She’s just so hurt. She feels her kid is rejected by my parents and that it pre-dates the wedding by several years. She also thinks my daughter is held up as “the golden grandchild”, which, probably valid there. Sis acknowledges I don’t have any control over the golden child thing but it still upsets her to think her kids - ALL of them - are being spurned because of the one child. 

[Sneezyone]

I would host my parents separately and invite sister and her family over for a separate holiday game night. I would not force togetherness when feelings are so raw.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Sneezyone

[Guest]

@happysmileylady, I have two living sisters and one brother who lives far away, whom I see rarely. The one sister (not the subject sister) interacts with my parents the most and has had more of the “end of life” discussions, although not comprehensively. This is the sister whom my mom tells the most about her health, though I am the one who has gone to more dr. appointments. So we have to confer to piece together info on my mom’s health. My mom is “superstitious” about discussing health; she beleives it is making a bad confession of faith, so that is a whole ‘nother can of worms. 

In the past, the subject sister has TG and I have Christmas Eve. But the hurt sister is refusing to do TG for my weird and mean parents; I can’t do it at all because I’m doing stuff for dh’s side on TG. But the other sister has offered to host Christmas Eve, mostly just because this is the first year she has a home, and she mentioned giving me a break, which is nice. It does kind of, a tiny bit help if I am not actually hosting, but it bothers me that my parents will act as though nothing ever happened and if the sister does come, she will be seething for sure, and will be on hyper alert to see how my parents treat her kid. 

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, Quill said:

@happysmileylady, I have two living sisters and one brother who lives far away, whom I see rarely. The one sister (not the subject sister) interacts with my parents the most and has had more of the “end of life” discussions, although not comprehensively. This is the sister whom my mom tells the most about her health, though I am the one who has gone to more dr. appointments. So we have to confer to piece together info on my mom’s health. My mom is “superstitious” about discussing health; she beleives it is making a bad confession of faith, so that is a whole ‘nother can of worms. 

In the past, the subject sister has TG and I have Christmas Eve. But the hurt sister is refusing to do TG for my weird and mean parents; I can’t do it at all because I’m doing stuff for dh’s side on TG. But the other sister has offered to host Christmas Eve, mostly just because this is the first year she has a home, and she mentioned giving me a break, which is nice. It does kind of, a tiny bit help if I am not actually hosting, but it bothers me that my parents will act as though nothing ever happened and if the sister does come, she will be seething for sure, and will be on hyper alert to see how my parents treat her kid. 

Maybe sister with the new home can host parents for a small, intimate TG dinner as a warm up. Other sister can host her own big shindig without running into your parents.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I also tend to be a "discuss the elephant in the room" sort of person, but with what Quill has posted about mom not being all there, terminal health conditions involved.....the parents might not actually be capable of a pretty deep conversation.

This is a skill I have had to learn as an adult (I still have to practice it; it’s hard for me) because my parents, even long before any health or mental decline, are major avoiders. They have almost zero conflict resolution skills and I did not learn any until well into adulthood. The subject sister struggles with this too, and is an “exploder”. She doesn’t say anything until the straw breaks the camel’s back and then you will hear it all. So, I’m sure that is what happened here, too. 

This is why I actually did want to tell my mom I did not think it was right to duck out of the wedding. But I know it will be very uncomfortable and my mom is not open to considering her part. She will cling to her rightness, either by sticking to her story of not being well enough to go, or maybe even by saying defensively that, yes, she does have an issue with the one grandkid and will not pretend to think it’s fine. Either way, I can’t see it resolving well if I try to discuss it with her. 

[Joker]

I feel for you. In my family, I'm the one with a dc others don't approve of but at least my mom is on my side (dad would be but he passed years ago). I try very hard to put no one in the middle but after the last holiday season I did tell my mom not to ask me to show up when my siblings are there. It's honestly just too hard for me to pretend with them anymore. My adult niece was so blatantly hurtful last time but we all sucked it up for my mom. 

I wouldn't ask your sis to suck it up because I've done it and it takes a huge toll in the end. I would just be there for both sides but keep gatherings separate. I would never ask anyone to take sides so I doubt your sister expects that but it would be nice to not ask her to let it go as well. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Joker

[Katy]

I'm sorry.  I think I would be likely to give grace to anyone with a terminal medical situation, even if the behavior was bad.  My dad didn't attend my sibling's wedding.  We didn't know at the time how close to death he was, but we were all pretty hurt by it.

[Carol in Cal.]

That is awful, what they did.  

I think I would still host Christmas, and ask the sister who has offered to host TG instead.

Also, I would have the other sis and her family over separately in addition to Christmas, and let them know where my sympathies are, but in a supportive rather than ‘lead the fray’ kind of way.  I would not make excuses for the GPs but I would chalk their actions up to dementia without excusing them, in that conversation.  And I would say that although I would like to see them rise above this and come for the holidays, I understand if they can’t.  And I’d probably have a separate 12th night or Epiphany party that included lots of folks but especially them, one that was outside of the family traditions but made it very clear that I’m being quite inclusive.

[Joker]

7 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I don't think it's gross.  I think it *IS* a big thing to ask of anyone, and I won't disagree with that.  But I interpret gross as something deeply offensive and I don't think it's offensive to ask someone you are close to you to help you and your kids, especially if the kids are minors, which, Quill's siggie says she still has at least one, to just help everyone get through the holidays and then work through actual issue later.   It's kind not taking the hurt of the wrong done out on people who didn't commit the wrong, couldn't control the wrong, and are basically innocent bystanders.

 

But I will reiterate, I like the idea of trying to host separate things, somehow/way, so that everyone can be given a bit of time to heal.

 

 

 

I don't know. It felt pretty gross and offensive to me to put on a happy face.

Are the kids of Quill's siblings all adults? Maybe the dc with "questionable life choices"  is also a minor and it's best for their parents to show they have their back? 

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Joker said:

I don't know. It felt pretty gross and offensive to me to put on a happy face.

Are the kids of Quill's siblings all adults? Maybe the dc with "questionable life choices"  is also a minor and it's best for their parents to show they have their back? 

I agree. My maternal family enforced a ‘smile for the camera’ ethos for years. As soon as their parents died, It all fell apart. All that stuffing and grinning and bearing wasn’t healthy.

[Selkie]

If I were your sister, I would never let something like that go just to keep the peace. That would be disloyal to my child. 

I also wouldn't buy the excuse that poor health/dementia are reasons for the cruelty, since it sounds like this child has been treated poorly for years.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Joker said:

I don't know. It felt pretty gross and offensive to me to put on a happy face.

Are the kids of Quill's siblings all adults? Maybe the dc with "questionable life choices"  is also a minor and it's best for their parents to show they have their back? 

The questionable life child is still a minor. 

[Joker]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I don't know if they are or not. 

I know that for me, my parents have 11 grandkids.  And I really struggle to imagine putting my own kids in a position of having to shut out their cousins, my brother's kids, simply because I have an opinion of my brother's wife that isn't fit to put in print.  

 

Also, I want to say, it sounds like the situation you are in, (drawing on past posts, I have a pretty good idea of what's involved) what it seems you are discussing is a long standing pattern of issues and if I am not mistaken, you have tried discussing over and over.

That doesn't seem to be the situation in the OP.  The situation in the OP, as I understand, is specifically about the major hurt of the parents avoiding the wedding. Although Quill mentioned a overall disagreement with another child, it hasn't sounded to me like there have been years of the parents specifically slighting and/or insulting the sister and her family.  

If I am wrong, then I apologize.  

But what I am suggesting is more about.......lets get through the moment and then try to deal with the real issue later......not just grin and bear it through years of the real issue.  No one should be trying to grin and bear years of very real issues and insults like that.  

If I'm remembering correctly my child and Quill's sister's child might have the same questionable life choices. So, I definitely feel for the sister and her kids a great deal in this situation. I also feel for Quill who seems to love all of them and probably wishes they could just get along.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Selkie said:

If I were your sister, I would never let something like that go just to keep the peace. That would be disloyal to my child. 

I also wouldn't buy the excuse that poor health/dementia are reasons for the cruelty, since it sounds like this child has been treated poorly for years.

It’s more that my parents ignore her/him. They can’t deal with the gender issue thing, so they kid of never speak directly to this kid. 

Last year, my mom requested we don’t do gifts at Christmas because she just couldn’t do it with her health and all. But I later learned that she made gifts for her “pretend” grandkids - some kids from church whom she “grandmothers.” So I think even the no gifts thing had more to do with she doesn’t want to do gifts for the real grandkids, which includes at least one whom she feels she can’t understand. My mom hasn’t really enjoyed “boy things”, even for my sons who have no gender dysphoria; she likes “girl things”. 

[Frances]

Just now, Joker said:

If I'm remembering correctly my child and Quill's sister's child might have the same questionable life choices. So, I definitely feel for the sister and her kids a great deal in this situation. I also feel for Quill who seems to love all of them and probably wishes they could just get along.

This is exactly what I was just thinking.

[catz]

Just now, Joker said:

I don't know. It felt pretty gross and offensive to me to put on a happy face.

Are the kids of Quill's siblings all adults? Maybe the dc with "questionable life choices"  is also a minor and it's best for their parents to show they have their back? 

Even if they're a young adult or full on adult, I can imagine that feeling so hurtful and isolating for that kid and as a parent I would want my kid to know 100% that I was there for them.  I can't imagine asking my own kid to suck it up and make nice for a holiday if they couldn't feel comfortable in their own skin.  It also sounds like this has been building up for a couple years and isn't a brand new conflict too.  I think that makes a difference.   Not to mention it sounds like at least one of them is of reasonably sound mind.  

I have a SIL who is not my favorite who I put up with at times for my mother.  But she hasn't blatantly hurt or judged or shunned my own kids.  How my own kids felt about a get together like that would affect my response.  

I'd probably encourage my sister to at least tell her parents "Hey - I was really hurt by you not showing up and not letting us know.  So FYI, I'm not hosting thanksgiving this year because I need to step away and cool off."  She doesn't even need to open a conversation.  

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

It’s more that my parents ignore her/him. They can’t deal with the gender issue thing, so they kid of never speak directly to this kid. 

Last year, my mom requested we don’t do gifts at Christmas because she just couldn’t do it with her health and all. But I later learned that she made gifts for her “pretend” grandkids - some kids from church whom she “grandmothers.” So I think even the no gifts thing had more to do with she doesn’t want to do gifts for the real grandkids, which includes at least one whom she feels she can’t understand. My mom hasn’t really enjoyed “boy things”, even for my sons who have no gender dysphoria; she likes “girl things”. 

Take this FWIW but, if it were me and my siblings, I would be focused on preserving those sibling and cousin relationships above all. I am not saying abandon your parents. I would certainly feed and visit them. But long after your parents are gone, the siblings and cousins will remain. If you communicate to your sibling that you’re prioritizing the feelings of the aged over these still growing kids, you run a very real risk of creating a bigger, longer lasting rift.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Take this FWIW but, if it were me and my siblings, I would be focused on preserving those sibling and cousin relationships above all. I am not saying abandon your parents. I would certainly feed and visit them. But long after your parents are gone, the siblings and cousins will remain. If you communicate to your sibling that you’re prioritizing the feelings of the aged over these still growing kids, you run a very real risk of creating a bigger, longer lasting rift.

That is a really good point. 

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Ultimately, this is really truly where I am coming from.  Kids.  Even those who aren't quite minors any more.  Always, make things good/protected/better....for the kids.   If it's separate out, it's separate for the kids, but do so in the least destructive way possible.  If it's "suck it up" then it's "suck it up" for the sake of the kids involved.  That's really truly the origin of my thought process.  

The problem with this is, and I have seen it in my own family, the kids see the hurt their parents experience and will internalize it and also hold grudges. You think they don’t know that people are gritting their teeth and trying to keep the peace? They do. Not to mention that the slights involved here were perpetrated on kids by their elders. Making them choke that down isn’t cool.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Sneezyone

[Joker]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The problem with this is, and I have seen it in my own family, the kids see the hurt their parents experience and will internalize it and also hold grudges. You think they don’t know that people are gritting their teeth and trying to keep the peace? They do. Not to mention that the slights involved here were perpetrated on kids by their elders. Making them choke that down isn’t cool.

Yeah. My ds has finally expressed how much guilt he feels for my relationship with most of my family. I've been working hard to let him know it's on them and not him. I've been trying to let him know I'm OK. It honestly would have been easier to not have been sucking it up for so long and made a clean break - to have let them be the ones to make it ok and not me.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, happysmileylady said:

I want to again be super clear

 

I am not talking about some sort of long term suck it up situation.  What I am actually talking about is more of a 'lets make sure the kids holiday doesn't completely melt down *this year* so that we can get past this specific time of year, and then, we can all work it out.'

 

I don't want anyone to grow to hold grudges, or internalize anything as some sort of "conceal, don't feel, don't let them know" sort of situation.  

 

I am talking about, lets triage the situation so that kids involved aren't further hurt, then once the immediate hurt and stress and holidays have passed, lets work on long term so that kids can grow and develop their own relationships that are thriving and healthy, rather than hurtful and destructive.

What, to you, may seem like a short term thing doesn’t necessarily feel that way to the victims. Attending events and/or papering over differences for the sake of the perpetrators IS revictimizing the kids. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

am talking about, lets triage the situation so that kids involved aren't further hurt, then once the immediate hurt and stress and holidays have passed, lets work on long term so that kids can grow and develop their own relationships that are thriving and healthy, rather than hurtful and destructive.

I think Sneezy and others are right, though. If all are together in the room and the GPs are babbling about the subjects they are comfortable with and are ignoring the kid and/or the subjects they don’t want to discuss (which, that is par; that is what happens), the kids will absolutely, definitely pick up on the undercurrent. 

Undercurrent is why I have done the best I can to be supportive towards my sister’s kid, even though I cannot claim to be perfectly comfortable. 

[Annie G]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

The problem with this is, and I have seen it in my own family, the kids see the hurt their parents experience and will internalize it and also hold grudges. You think they don’t know that people are gritting their teeth and trying to keep the peace? They do. Not to mention that the slights involved here were perpetrated on kids by their elders. Making them choke that down isn’t cool.

This is what has happened in my family. After Mom passed away our dad had nobody to answer to as far as how he treats people. As a result, of his 9 grandchildren, only two speak to him, and one of those just made a ‘last visit’ and has no intention of seeing him again.  He currently has dementia so I am helping with his care, but his treatment of his kids/grandkids was awful LONG before the dementia appeared.  Boy grands were treated well, girls were ignored. Literally not spoken to. My kids know the hurt I felt and they definitely hold grudges beyond how they themselves have been treated.  I feel bad that my kids have internalized that hurt, but I can’t fix it.  They hurt for me because they love me. 

[prairiewindmomma]

We have had similar issues in the past, and from my perspective, it sounds as though this wedding is the straw that broke the camel’s back—something in a long list of events throughout the history of the family. 

I am sorry you are in an uncomfortable position, but in a way I am relieved for you that you can’t “make it right” by hosting Thanksgiving yourself. 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, StellaM said:

Your sister should ask them outright, if she is assuming the reason to be different to the one stated, but in general, not going to a wedding is not rude.

I do think they should have told your sister well in advance, if able to do so. It's rude to refuse attendance at the last minute, except in cases of truly unexpected circumstance.

I agree that anyone can attend or not attend any event to which they are invited. ITA. But the way they handled it and did it was totally wrong. 

My sister did tell my mom the reason she believes they did not attend. That was when they had the huge fight. 

Also, to my top sentence: while I agree that anyone is allowed to decline any invitation, when you care about people, you show you care about what they care about. I’ve gone to many events I could take or leave just in order to show my caring for the people. 

[catz]

1 minute ago, StellaM said:

People are allowed to attend or not attend a wedding. There are weddings I would not go to, for all sorts of big and small reasons (too far, in ill health, not able to tolerate the entire shtick, avoiding a bunch of redneck rellos, no money to do so, not able to travel, thinking weddings are a load of guff ) and I would say nothing more than 'Sorry, unable to attend. Wish you all the best'. I might not even share the reason. 

So I don't think anyone is rude for choosing not to attend. It's an invitation, right, not a command, and attendance (or not) doesn't actually determine how well you might wish a couple.

Your sister should ask them outright, if she is assuming the reason to be different to the one stated, but in general, not going to a wedding is not rude.

I do think they should have told your sister well in advance, if able to do so. It's rude to refuse attendance at the last minute, except in cases of truly unexpected circumstance.

Not going to a wedding is not rude.  Agree.  Not RSVPing clearly is extremely rude especially when you are a close family member and procession and music was altered at the last minute to accommodate.  Agree that it's not a summons.  But that said, if you choose not to attend a wedding that can lead to hurt and fall outs and permanently affecting relationships.  You are free to not attend.  You are not free to not suffer any ramifications for not attending.  If you are a grandparent and are hand picking which grandchildren's wedding you are willing to attend that sends a loud message.  

No one is also under any obligation to continue a relationship that hurts them emotionally either.  

[Frances]

19 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I want to again be super clear

 

I am not talking about some sort of long term suck it up situation.  What I am actually talking about is more of a 'lets make sure the kids holiday doesn't completely melt down *this year* so that we can get past this specific time of year, and then, we can all work it out.'

 

I don't want anyone to grow to hold grudges, or internalize anything as some sort of "conceal, don't feel, don't let them know" sort of situation.  

 

I am talking about, lets triage the situation so that kids involved aren't further hurt, then once the immediate hurt and stress and holidays have passed, lets work on long term so that kids can grow and develop their own relationships that are thriving and healthy, rather than hurtful and destructive.

Most of the cousins seem to be teenagers or young adults. It sounds as though the holidays are very important to you and your family and you would want everything to appear to be normal for them for the sake of your kids and nieces/nephews. It seems to me that all of the cousins involved here are either old enough to have already figured out the situation themselves or would be able to handle it if the parents chose to share the issue. I’m not sure modeling conflict avoidance for the sake of peace, when real hurt is involved, is very healthy for anyone involved.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

If this has been an ongoing thing, with regards to your parents overall treatment of your sister and your family then you might have a bigger question to answer for yourself.  Essentially that question is....are your parents, knowingly, deliberately engaging in behaviors that are hurting the kids within your family that you care about.  And, a step further, what are you willing to lose while acknowledging that if they are deliberately engaging in behaviors knowing that their grandkids are hurt as a result.  

People who knowingly hurt kids, and even knowing hurt those who aren't *KIDS* are are still.....your kids.....yeah, they don't get much sympathy.  It's one thing to overreact to X or Y or Z.....its a whole other thing to engage in a systemic list of behaviors that *HURTS* kids.  

Well, that’s a whole different ball of wax. I have a complicated relationship with my parents. They made a lot of mistakes. I have many issues with how they managed us, and I don’t love their grandparenting, either. But those are tears I have already shed. 

They have never been evil, but they are...not very evolved. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

Just be like 'sis, I feel for you,.'....'mom, I feel for you' and let them sort it out.

Well it came up because other sister wants to know what we’re doing for holidays. So, I said my plans and then my sister responded with still very apparent hurt, so...I don’t really know where that leaves the planning. And, because I haven’t talked to my mom yet, I’m not sure whether to drag that elephant out of the corner or what. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Are they tears your sister has already shed?

Don’t know; I doubt it. 

A while ago, I came to terms with it: I didn’t have the parents relationship I wish I had. I gave it up. Let it go like Elsa. Not gonna get blood from a turnip; work on the relationships where I do have control. Don’t worry about the rest. 

But I can’t say my sister has or hasn’t come to terms with this yet. She possibly still hopes/wishes they would be the way she wants. 

[MercyA]

I hate the idea of anyone purposefully avoiding talking to a grandchild. 😞 

IDK. It sounds like your parents attend other events with your sister's child there? I am finding that sometimes elderly people just don't feel like going to some events, plain and simple. Many times they use health as an excuse. My sweet grandma has a LOT of trouble saying, "No, I won't be there," even though she knows she doesn't want to go. So she just doesn't come, or tells someone not to pick her up after all, the day of the event. I wouldn't necessarily assume an issue with your sister's child is the main reason why they didn't go. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, MercyA said:

I hate the idea of anyone purposefully avoiding talking to a grandchild. 😞 

IDK. It sounds like your parents attend other events with your sister's child there? I am finding that sometimes elderly people just don't feel like going to some events, plain and simple. Many times they use health as an excuse. My sweet grandma has a LOT of trouble saying, "No, I won't be there," even though she knows she doesn't want to go. So she just doesn't come, or tells someone not to pick her up after all, the day of the event. I wouldn't necessarily assume an issue with your sister's child is the main reason why they didn't go. 

You could be right, though I’m not positive. 

In the wedding, the child they have an issue with was going to seat my mom as part of the processional. I can see the possibility my parents felt this was too “in their faces”. If they merely come to a party, they can basically avoid/ignore the child. But in the wedding they would have directly interacted. 

[katilac]

8 hours ago, Selkie said:

 

 

8 hours ago, Quill said:

Last year, my mom requested we don’t do gifts at Christmas because she just couldn’t do it with her health and all. But I later learned that she made gifts for her “pretend” grandkids - some kids from church whom she “grandmothers.”  

8 hours ago, StellaM said:

People are allowed to attend or not attend a wedding. There are weddings I would not go to, for all sorts of big and small reasons (too far, in ill health, not able to tolerate the entire shtick, avoiding a bunch of redneck rellos, no money to do so, not able to travel, thinking weddings are a load of guff ) and I would say nothing more than 'Sorry, unable to attend. Wish you all the best'. I might not even share the reason. 

 

7 hours ago, StellaM said:

That's you though. It wouldn't occur to me that non-attendance at a wedding would be a deal breaker. Lots of reasons people don't go to weddings.

But that's not the case here; the grandparents do indeed go to weddings. And, while I agree with the 'no reason needed' in general, I would put the wedding of a grandchild or other close relative in a different category. 

7 hours ago, StellaM said:

Plan what you want to plan. Invite who you want to invite. See who wants to come. 

This is my usual advice for most scenarios; in general, I don't play the 'I won't come if X is invited' game. In this case, though, because the hurt is so fresh and there is little question that the grandparents do have issues with this grandchild in general, I'd try to go the extra mile if possible and talk to my sister about alternate plans ) if it were possible to wait a couple of weeks, I'd do so). Then I'd probably say something like, "I wouldn't feel right about not inviting our elderly parents for the holidays, but I get why you are reluctant to come. Would you want to do another night just for our families, so the cousins can really relax and visit? Of course, you could still come on Christmas Eve if you wish." 

I'm coming from a place of being willing to do almost anything for my sister, even if I think she's being a pain 😄 and also from a place of wanting my kids and my niblings to feel free to be themselves, particularly in a family setting. It's never okay to basically pretend someone, particularly a close relative, doesn't exist because they make you uncomfortable. You don't have to focus on the aspect that makes you uncomfortable; you can just ask them how work is going or if they're enjoying the cooler weather.   I can have polite conversation with people who whose appearance is unusual to me and I can have polite conversation with people who make lifestyle choices I disagree with or don't understand. 

[plansrme]

I haven't read all of the responses, but I'll throw my one bit of relevant experience in for what it is worth:  I have the difficult relationship with my mom, so much that we do not speak or communicate in any other way except at Christmas.  My brother and I alternate hosting Christmas at our respective homes.  It is, for the past several years, literally the only time I have any contact with my mom.  Even if it is my year to host, the arrangements for what time and what day go through my brother.  But everyone shows up, and everyone has a good time.  I give my mom nice gifts; her gift-giving has actually improved since I cut her off.  Everyone is civil.  It is actually a lot of fun, even when my mom is being weird, because the rest of us get along.  All that is to say that I wouldn't necessarily assume holiday gatherings are going to be ruined.  Maybe give it a whirl and see if the magical combination of good food and Christmas spirit can, if not heal the rift (it certainly hasn't healed mine with my mom) at least suppress it long enough for everyone else to make memories.

[almondbutterandjelly]

I think this might be a good year to plan a fun out of town trip over Christmas!  I hear the mountains are lovely... so are the beaches. 🙂

((hugs, Quill)

[shawthorne44]

12 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

I would host my parents separately and invite sister and her family over for a separate holiday game night. I would not force togetherness when feelings are so raw.

 

And, if it were me since I'd consider my parents the guilty side, I'd give the sister the option of which day, including the real day. 
Although she might prefer an off-day. 

[shawthorne44]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

You could be right, though I’m not positive. 

In the wedding, the child they have an issue with was going to seat my mom as part of the processional. I can see the possibility my parents felt this was too “in their faces”. If they merely come to a party, they can basically avoid/ignore the child. But in the wedding they would have directly interacted. 

 

Wow, that is harsh of them. 

 

[catz]

4 minutes ago, shawthorne44 said:

 

Wow, that is harsh of them. 

 

Agree.  Given this information I can see why the sister would feel like this is a slap in the face.  Especially since they sent along word of not attending second hand last minute through a sibling she might perceive as "favored".  

Edited October 29, 2019 by FuzzyCatz

[unsinkable]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

You could be right, though I’m not positive. 

In the wedding, the child they have an issue with was going to seat my mom as part of the processional. I can see the possibility my parents felt this was too “in their faces”. If they merely come to a party, they can basically avoid/ignore the child. But in the wedding they would have directly interacted. 

I never would have put my child in that position. If I already knew a person thought so little of my child that they avoided talking to them, I wouldn't have asked my child to escort that person in a public event.

I think of it as protecting my minor child (child is still a minor, right?) not catering to the other person's discomfort.

[Acadie]

Could you tell your sister you're thinking of hosting and ask what she'd be comfortable with? Golden child/scapegoat dynamics are incredibly damaging for the whole family, and as the parent of the golden child I think you do have a responsibility not to gloss over it and give it a pass.

I'd make sure to reach out to your sister to let her know you understand her anger, pain and protectiveness toward her children over this, and that you want to be sure to see them for the holiday. That could be with everyone, as you've done traditionally, or in a gathering that's just the younger generation or your two families, whichever she prefers. Perhaps the options could be left open until closer to the holiday in case she and your parents are able to move the needle on this in the next month or two. If she doesn't want to spend the holiday with your parents this year, two gatherings seem to me like the way to go.

You can process for yourself your parents' aging and the limited time you have left with them, and I can see why it's so important to you to share the holiday and enjoy your time with them. But your sister's relationship with them is complicated by this hurt, and she needs space to figure it out on her own timeframe. No one else can do it for her, or dictate how soon or in what way she processes things. Attempts to do so could hurt her and all of your relationships even more. 

Amy

Edited October 29, 2019 by Acadie

[Acadie]

7 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Where I draw the line about how to react - explode, diplomatically intervene, stay out of it entirely - depends on whether or not my own kids will perceive my actions - or inaction - as demonstrating integrity. Not about whether their comfort level was preserved, but about if/how I modeled healthy interactions. I’m not always good at this, but it’s what I strive for. 

 

This is a helpful way for me to think about my interactions with my inlaws--thank you!

Amy

[catz]

42 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

I never would have put my child in that position. If I already knew a person thought so little of my child that they avoided talking to them, I wouldn't have asked my child to escort that person in a public event.

I think of it as protecting my minor child (child is still a minor, right?) not catering to the other person's discomfort.

For my wedding, my parents didn't dictate these types of logistics.  The wedding planner at our church did a lot of this based on the ushers and who was available and what made the most sense given the parties involved.  At my wedding, my brother escorted both of our grandmothers down the aisle.   I guess I don't want to speculate too hard about their wedding party/usher set up.  But this doesn't seem that weird to me that parents wouldn't jump in to change their procession.  Especially if this topic is taboo to talk about.  Maybe what sister was hoping was awkwardness and adjustment over a new situation is now perceived by her as straight up dislike and disapproval.  

Edited October 29, 2019 by FuzzyCatz

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

I never would have put my child in that position. If I already knew a person thought so little of my child that they avoided talking to them, I wouldn't have asked my child to escort that person in a public event.

I think of it as protecting my minor child (child is still a minor, right?) not catering to the other person's discomfort.

I think that’s where the hopety-hope (on my sister’s part) comes in. (Yes, child is still a minor.) I think she was hoping that by involving the grandparents with the kid for a part of the wedding, they would be humane enough to interact with their kid or, I guess, set aside their rejection of the issue for the wedding. But I expect from my parents’ perspective that is tacitly condoning sin.

That is one way I think my sis and I differ because I don’t really waste my energy hoping my parents will be different from how they have always been. If anything, they are now just a less-filtered version of what they have always been. I roll my eyes at the things they do, but I no longer vainly hope something like, gee, maybe they’ll come to talent night to watch ds juggle. They won’t so I’m past hoping for those things. But it’s different for my sister in this case because, obviously, this is an issue fundamental to my sister’s kid’s identity. I’m not sure what I would have done if this were my own kid. I can see where she hoped they could just go along with it because teen grandkids seating the grandparents is common. 

[HS Mom in NC]

Having personal experience with my grandparents not going to my brother's wedding and not saying so until the day of because of my Grandmother's sudden explosive diarrhea she had never had before the wedding day, I can completely understand that it might very well be a legitimate, sudden issue everyone else wouldn't know about and those that did would likely not go into detail about it. If an elderly person can't back out of a social event at the last minute with "I'm not feeling well" then we must be in a parallel universe where up is down, light is dark, and right is wrong.