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Scarlett,

IMHO it’s what you do and say now- the unconditional love that you reiterate to him now that will salvage your relationship in the long run.

Whats done is done and while he can’t respect or accept your decision now, it’s how you handle the friction and his anger that will keep your relationship threads intact. You can’t change him but you can show the strength only a momma can and love him relentlessly- even when he’s hurt you.  He needs to learn to handle his anger and disagreements in a more mature way- no doubt! And I’m sorry you’re bearing the brunt of the anger.  

He sounds somewhat similar to you insofar as strong convictions. But he’s younger and inexperienced and very zealous.  Hopefully in time he will soften and mature as he sees your steadfast love alongside with conviction. 

 

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1 minute ago, LarlaB said:

Scarlett,

IMHO it’s what you do and say now- the unconditional love that you reiterate to him now that will salvage your relationship in the long run.

Whats done is done and while he can’t respect or accept your decision now, it’s how you handle the friction and his anger that will keep your relationship threads intact. You can’t change him but you can show the strength only a momma can and love him relentlessly- even when he’s hurt you.  He needs to learn to handle his anger and disagreements in a more mature way- no doubt! And I’m sorry you’re bearing the brunt of the anger.  

He sounds somewhat similar to you insofar as strong convictions. But he’s younger and inexperienced and very zealous.  Hopefully in time he will soften and mature as he sees your steadfast love alongside with conviction. 

 

Thank you I think,  LOL....he is strong willed and justice minded....but I fear it will not serve him well. 

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Most JW's will not attend a wedding if it is at another religious institution.  However, it is not a "rule" specifically, but left up to a person's conscience.  I would understand why the son might be angry if that was the case.  However, it's better he understand now that things work like that, people can make choices and you can be angry at them.  You both have that right.  It's life.  I disagree with the name-calling on anyone's part, but I don't think him being angry with Scarlett on its own (without accompanying poor behavior) equals "turning on her".  He can disagree with her choice and decide he doesn't like it, the same as she can make the choice in the first place.  I would say his immaturity is playing a role in how he is choosing to express himself.

 

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1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Katy I do not understand your line of thinking AT ALL.  We prove faithfulness to our God by our actions....not when it is easy but when it is difficult.  If we just always said ‘well  God knows what is in my heart’ and then did what we wanted.....how is that being loyal to God?

Because people were saying the reason they could not attend this hypothetical wedding was that it would be equivalent to approving of the marriage. I was saying that one can disapprove, and still attend. They are not the same things. That neither the son nor God would assume the person's attendance equaled approval if said person had already made it very clear that they did not, in fact, approve, but out of a desire to preserve the relationship would attend. So the attendance would be on the stipulation that the child understood said attendance didn't mean approval. 

 

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2 minutes ago, goldberry said:

Most JW's will not attend a wedding if it is at another religious institution.  However, it is not a "rule" specifically, but left up to a person's conscience.  I would understand why the son might be angry if that was the case.  However, it's better he understand now that things work like that, people can make choices and you can be angry at them.  You both have that right.  It's life.  I disagree with the name-calling on anyone's part, but I don't think him being angry with Scarlett on its own (without accompanying poor behavior) equals "turning on her".  He can disagree with her choice and decide he doesn't like it, the same as she can make the choice in the first place.  I would say his immaturity is playing a role in how he is choosing to express himself.

 

Yes. If the parent can choose to not attend, then the child can choose to no longer invite the parent to other events, or be a part of their life. But that doesn't excuse violence, threats, etc. 

Honestly, if it is an issue of parents refusing to attend his wedding I can sort of understand him yelling and cursing, just out of hurt and a sense of betrayal. Not saying it is right, or mature, or wise, but probably understandable. 

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35 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

No this is not actually a tj. It is central to my son going out of his mind over the last several years.  Many people have expressed upset and disapproval.    Complaints went way up the chain... but still..why is he so angry over something that is not his personal business. 

 

You brought him up with a strict sense of right and wrong, and to take a firm stand on his beliefs. It is no wonder he has such a strong sense of justice and rebels against accepting that justice is no more reliable than luck. Justice is important! Of course it is his business, even if the details of any specific situation aren't! How will there be any justice if no one takes a stand to enforce it? Justice in that black and white stage of thinking tends towards the punitive. It should soften in time.

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3 minutes ago, goldberry said:

Most JW's will not attend a wedding if it is at another religious institution.  However, it is not a "rule" specifically, but left up to a person's conscience.  I would understand why the son might be angry if that was the case.  However, it's better he understand now that things work like that, people can make choices and you can be angry at them.  You both have that right.  It's life.  I disagree with the name-calling on anyone's part, but I don't think him being angry with Scarlett on its own (without accompanying poor behavior) equals "turning on her".  He can disagree with her choice and decide he doesn't like it, the same as she can make the choice in the first place.  I would say his immaturity is playing a role in how he is choosing to express himself.

 

My son, having been raised by me, in my faith, absolutely has turned on me.  I am prepared to forgive without being asked and offer him a lot of Grace for his youth....but he has absolutely turned on me. 

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I should add that my maternal grandparents did not attend my parents wedding. it was quick, and it was at a justice of the peace, and so she wouldn't go. it did deeply hurt my mother, and I'm not sure how long it took that relationship to repair itself. They never lived near each other after that, and I only saw them every few years. (my parents are still married, happily, despite getting married three weeks after they met)

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25 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

 Not to mention, no matter how you feel about his decision as a father it was still not murder, or adultery or idolatry....he was a human who got stupid in his personal life with his precious only child.  Maybe/probably he shouldn’t remain in a position of authority, but he isn't an evil person. 

It's a maturity thing. He's still really young. With a lot of prayer on all parts and introspection on his, along with some failures, I hope he will come around. Humility is lacking in youth. But props to him to embarking on marriage at his age. That is something to support and embrace. 

And seriously- I know adults twice his age who conflate differences of certain matters of opinion with evil. I mean- people now- well established adults, will conflate mundane things such as political differences with evil. It's sad that it has come to that. But it seems to be the norm. If we can't agree- you are evil, and I am right, there can be no in between......... But, at least he has the excuse of youth on his side, and that is easier to overcome than many other constraints. 

Anyway, hugs. And congrats on gaining a DIL. I continue to pray for your relationship with ds as well as your son's new union. Bless you all. Hugs. 

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1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

You brought him up with a strict sense of right and wrong, and to take a firm stand on his beliefs. It is no wonder he has such a strong sense of justice and rebels against accepting that justice is no more reliable than luck. Justice is important! Of course it is his business, even if the details of any specific situation aren't! How will there be any justice if no one takes a stand to enforce it? Justice in that black and white stage of thinking tends towards the punitive. It should soften in time.

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Yes that has been his mindset.  I do hope for softening. 

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1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

My son, having been raised by me, in my faith, absolutely has turned on me.  I am prepared to forgive without being asked and offer him a lot of Grace for his youth....but he has absolutely turned on me. 

Without knowing the circumstances, that is hard to comprehend. Rejecting your faith doesn't mean rejecting you, per se, but maybe that's not what is going on here. 

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3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I should add that my maternal grandparents did not attend my parents wedding. it was quick, and it was at a justice of the peace, and so she wouldn't go. it did deeply hurt my mother, and I'm not sure how long it took that relationship to repair itself. They never lived near each other after that, and I only saw them every few years. (my parents are still married, happily, despite getting married three weeks after they met)

Interesting.  

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2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Without knowing the circumstances, that is hard to comprehend. Rejecting your faith doesn't mean rejecting you, per se, but maybe that's not what is going on here. 

You must trust me on this. 😉

 

He hasn’t exactly rejected  the faith.  But he has rejected me.,

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2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Because people were saying the reason they could not attend this hypothetical wedding was that it would be equivalent to approving of the marriage. I was saying that one can disapprove, and still attend. They are not the same things. That neither the son nor God would assume the person's attendance equaled approval if said person had already made it very clear that they did not, in fact, approve, but out of a desire to preserve the relationship would attend. So the attendance would be on the stipulation that the child understood said attendance didn't mean approval. 

 

Riiight.  Yeah, I'm reading the words and I know they are English, but it makes no sense to me.  I don't usually go to events to watch in silent (or vocal) disapproval while others celebrate things I think are wrong/sinful.  It would never occur to me that doing so, and even stating I was going to in advance, was more loving than deciding that event is probably not one I should attend.  To me, that someone would think that is mind-boggling.  That anyone would want them to do that instead of not attending is also mind-boggling.

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1 minute ago, Murphy101 said:

 

Riiight.  Yeah, I'm reading the words and I know they are English, but it makes no sense to me.  I don't usually go to events to watch in silent (or vocal) disapproval while others celebrate things I think are wrong/sinful.  It would never occur to me that doing so, and even stating I was going to in advance, was more loving than deciding that event is probably not one I should attend.  To me, that someone would think that is mind-boggling.  That anyone would want them to do that instead of not attending is also mind-boggling.

But in the case of a close relative who already knows your views, and you've shared your thoughts, that you don't approve, and they invite you anyway, and ask or even beg you to come, then you would know for sure they feel it is more loving of you to come. 

I did NOT approve of my ex- husband's conversion to buddhism, but he wanted me at his ceremony anyway, so I went. 

Edited by Ktgrok
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1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

My son, having been raised by me, in my faith, absolutely has turned on me.  I am prepared to forgive without being asked and offer him a lot of Grace for his youth....but he has absolutely turned on me. 

 

That may be true, we're just going on the information you are giving us. Disagreeing with the choice you made, being hurt by it or angry about it, is not in itself turning on you.  Yelling, cursing, namecalling which you've described is bad behavior and may be accounted to his youth and his high emotions.  I am glad you are willing to be understanding of that. 

An adult child deciding to take a radically different path from their parents is not turning on them.  A majority of the time, it is not about the parents at all, and totally about them finding their own way and making their own choices.  They don't usually do it to "spite" their parents or to "turn on them".  That's the only point I was making.

An adult child turning on you would involve more than the information you are giving us in my opinion.  But sure, it may be true.

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Just now, Ktgrok said:

But in the case of a close relative who already knows your views, and you've shared your thoughts, that you don't approve, and they invite you anyway, and ask or even beg you to come, then you would know for sure they feel it is more loving of you to come. 

Well sure because  they want their way!  And when people want their way OF COURSE they will say it is more loving of you to give them their way.  Doesn’t make it so.  

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6 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Without knowing the circumstances, that is hard to comprehend. Rejecting your faith doesn't mean rejecting you, per se, but maybe that's not what is going on here. 

 

Now wait a minute...

I happen to agree with you. BUT according to many in this thread it sure seems like many don't think this always applies.  If the only way my kid will accept me is if I check who I am (a Catholic) in a box around them and don't think or act on it  - I'm not supposed to view that as rejecting me, just rejecting my faith.  But if they do something they know is against my faith, well I'm supposed to support them anyways because otherwise they might feel rejected and think I don't love them?  Why is one being accepted from one direction/situation but not the other? 

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Just now, Scarlett said:

Well sure because  they want their way!  And when people want their way OF COURSE they will say it is more loving of you to give them their way.  Doesn’t make it so.  

Let me rephrase -if they invite you and beg you to come, knowing you don't approve,  then that is evidence that they  will feel more loved by you attending even while disapproving than by you staying home and disapproving. Which was the point Murphy was making - to her she figured the person doing the inviting would rather her stay home if she disapproves. I was saying that well, I guess not, if they are asking you to come. 

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3 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Without knowing the circumstances, that is hard to comprehend. Rejecting your faith doesn't mean rejecting you, per se, but maybe that's not what is going on here. 

 

Well if he's furious about what he sees as hypocritical actions in his faith, and his mother isn't in line with his absolute sense of justice, he's probably more annoyed at what he sees as the inconsistency of her justice, even if she is just the same person she's always been, with exactly the same beliefs. So he drew a line in the sand that required her to betray her faith (possibly having a wedding in the sanctuary of a different religion), and she refused just as he knew she would, and he's ticked that his former mentor caved for his child but Scarlett wouldn't cave for him?  He's having an adolescent temper tantrum.

And I'm sorry for speculating earlier that I would cave and go to the wedding.  If I'd always refused to go to a ceremony in a sanctuary of a different faith and DS suddenly asked me to choose between him and what he knew I believed?  I seriously doubt I'd cave.  This has nothing to do with tolerance or love, it's about boundaries and not tolerating religious abuse from a child. If that's what happened I would have done the same thing.

I wonder what his new bride thinks.  I'd be so furious if DH used my wedding as a way to manipulate his mother.

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2 minutes ago, goldberry said:

 

That may be true, we're just going on the information you are giving us. Disagreeing with the choice you made, being hurt by it or angry about it, is not in itself turning on you.  Yelling, cursing, namecalling which you've described is bad behavior and may be accounted to his youth and his high emotions.  I am glad you are willing to be understanding of that. 

An adult child deciding to take a radically different path from their parents is not turning on them.  A majority of the time, it is not about the parents at all, and totally about them finding their own way and making their own choices.  They don't usually do it to "spite" their parents or to "turn on them".  That's the only point I was making.

An adult child turning on you would involve more than the information you are giving us in my opinion.  But sure, it may be true.

Of all people here you should understand that yes by his demanding I do something against my conscience he is indeed turning on me,  I have never requested anyone do something against their conscience.... much less someone I love 

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15 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

But in the case of a close relative who already knows your views, and you've shared your thoughts, that you don't approve, and they invite you anyway, and ask or even beg you to come, then you would know for sure they feel it is more loving of you to come. 

I wouldn't actually think it was more loving of someone to come to my wedding while disapproving of it than to stay away, that actually feels quite disrespectful to me. Come and give me fake smiles and congratulations? No, please politely stay home with your disapproval. I only want people who are truly rejoicing with me.

Clearly this is less universal than you think. Back to actually different perceptions and different moral foundations.

Edited by maize
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1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Of all people here you should understand that yes by his demanding I do something against my conscience he is indeed turning on me,  I have never requested anyone do something against their conscience.... much less someone I love 

My son has rejected my faith, and is an agnostic, but that doesn't mean he has rejected me. 

I don't know if you are upset he did something you don't approve of or just that he is upset you wouldn't attend. And then you are upset he asked you/expected you to attend. I mean, if he did this thing and didn't invite you, would that have been okay, and not a rejection of your and you'd be good now? Is that what you would have preferred - not to be invited? Or is the bigger issue that the event happened at all?

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1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

Let me rephrase -if they invite you and beg you to come, knowing you don't approve,  then that is evidence that they  will feel more loved by you attending even while disapproving than by you staying home and disapproving. Which was the point Murphy was making - to her she figured the person doing the inviting would rather her stay home if she disapproves. I was saying that well, I guess not, if they are asking you to come. 

Or it's evidence that they are disregarding your established moral convictions and manipulating you into a position they know you find morally incongruent, and asking you to cave on your long held beliefs...... Which is a totally and full violation of respect and boundaries, manipulative, not to mention narcissistic. 

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1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

Let me rephrase -if they invite you and beg you to come, knowing you don't approve,  then that is evidence that they  will feel more loved by you attending even while disapproving than by you staying home and disapproving. Which was the point Murphy was making - to her she figured the person doing the inviting would rather her stay home if she disapproves. I was saying that well, I guess not, if they are asking you to come. 

 

No.  It is evidence they want their way.  It is eveidence that they want you to pretend so that they don't feel uncomfortable.  It is evidence that they don't think your faith really matters to them.  It might *also* mean they would feel more loved by it. 

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Just now, maize said:

I wouldn't actually think it was more loving of someone to come to my wedding while disapproving of it than to stay away, that actually feels quite disrespectful to me. Come and give me fake smiles and congratulations? No, please politely stay home with your disapproval. I only want people who are truly reminding with me.

Clearly this is less universal than you think. Back to actually different perceptions and different moral foundations.

Oh, i don't think it is universal! But if you wouldn't feel it was loving for them to do that, and you knew they disapproved, you wouldn't beg them to come, right?

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3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Of all people here you should understand that yes by his demanding I do something against my conscience he is indeed turning on me,  I have never requested anyone do something against their conscience.... much less someone I love 

 

Requiring a parent violate their conscience isn't Christian or an act of love... it's an act of rebellion.

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Just now, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Or it's evidence that they are disregarding your established moral convictions and manipulating you into a position they know you find morally incongruent, and asking you to cave on your long held beliefs...... Which is a totally and full violation of respect and boundaries, manipulative, not to mention narcissistic. 

Yes.  This. And it doesn’t make him evil.maybe just immature and naive, 

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I know you don't understand why your son is acting as he is and you find it irrational (not to mention hurtful), but if you want to improve the odds of healing, I urge you to try to see things from his point of view. Not that you should have to agree with him, but make it your goal to understand what he is thinking. Because I'd bet that he has reasons thinking the way he does and acting the way he does. Those reasons may be based on a misunderstanding of the facts at hand or skewed priorities, or a number of other mistakes, but it sounds like he's thought about things a lot and believes himself to be right. If you can see through his eyes, you may still completely disagree with him, but you may also find ways to reconnect with him. Lots of families reconnect after a young person storms off in (what they believe to be) righteous indignation, but it generally requires at least one party actively keeping lines of communication open and preventing the building of walls. It's not fair that the burden rests on you, but at this point, you are the only one you can control, so it does.

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1 minute ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Or it's evidence that they are disregarding your established moral convictions and manipulating you into a position they know you find morally incongruent, and asking you to cave on your long held beliefs...... Which is a totally and full violation of respect and boundaries, manipulative, not to mention narcissistic. 

 

Yes, if this situation is remotely what I'm imagining it's completely narcissistic and manipulative. Wow.

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8 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Let me rephrase -if they invite you and beg you to come, knowing you don't approve,  then that is evidence that they  will feel more loved by you attending even while disapproving than by you staying home and disapproving. Which was the point Murphy was making - to her she figured the person doing the inviting would rather her stay home if she disapproves. I was saying that well, I guess not, if they are asking you to come. 

Begging you to come could just mean that they want to control you. They get you to come to something you disapprove of, they win.

My own internal compass wouldn't let me beg someone to come to something I know they disapprove of. Which would probably make me naturally suspicious of the motives of someone else behaving that way. Because my gut would judge by my own compass.

Edited by maize
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Just now, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Or it's evidence that they are disregarding your established moral convictions and manipulating you into a position they know you find morally incongruent, and asking you to cave on your long held beliefs...... Which is a totally and full violation of respect and boundaries, manipulative, not to mention narcissistic. 

 

Just now, Murphy101 said:

 

No.  It is evidence they want their way.  It is eveidence that they want you to pretend so that they don't feel uncomfortable.  It is evidence that they don't think your faith really matters to them.  It might *also* mean they would feel more loved by it. 

Wow. 

Wanting your loving mother to be at your one and only wedding is narcissistic? Really?

And it wouldn't mean they don't think your faith doesn't matter, it would mean they thought there was a compromise to be had that allowed you to hold your faith and be at a once in a lifetime event that they very much want you to be at. That's not a horrible thing. 

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1 minute ago, xahm said:

I know you don't understand why your son is acting as he is and you find it irrational (not to mention hurtful), but if you want to improve the odds of healing, I urge you to try to see things from his point of view. Not that you should have to agree with him, but make it your goal to understand what he is thinking. Because I'd bet that he has reasons thinking the way he does and acting the way he does. Those reasons may be based on a misunderstanding of the facts at hand or skewed priorities, or a number of other mistakes, but it sounds like he's thought about things a lot and believes himself to be right. If you can see through his eyes, you may still completely disagree with him, but you may also find ways to reconnect with him. Lots of families reconnect after a young person storms off in (what they believe to be) righteous indignation, but it generally requires at least one party actively keeping lines of communication open and preventing the building of walls. It's not fair that the burden rests on you, but at this point, you are the only one you can control, so it does.

This I agree with and I am seeking ways to do so.

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1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Yes.  This. And it doesn’t make him evil.maybe just immature and naive, 

I would give immature and naive the bulk of the credit at this point. But it's a flag if you add it to the three years of anger of the friend's marriage he disagrees with. . You might file it away for future issues that may crop up in regard to DIL. Hopefully he grows out of it though. 

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2 minutes ago, maize said:

Begging you to come could just mean that they want to control you. They get you to come to something you disapprove of, they win.

 

Well I would certainly hope that wasn't the type of relationship they had, or there are way bigger problems and the child "turned" on the parent long ago. 

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1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Wow. 

Wanting your loving mother to be at your one and only wedding is narcissistic? Really?

And it wouldn't mean they don't think your faith doesn't matter, it would mean they thought there was a compromise to be had that allowed you to hold your faith and be at a once in a lifetime event that they very much want you to be at. That's not a horrible thing. 

But it kinda is when you know you are asking your mother to violate her moral code.  

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Now, again because I don't know details, I would say if there were multiple options that WOULD allow the mother to attend the event, and the child purposely chose the one option that would violate the mother's beliefs, for no particular reason - THAT would be a sign of bad motives/rebellion/etc. 

Same as a child who purposely plans a destination wedding knowing their parents can't afford to attend, then being mad when the parents say they can't come, rather than choosing an option closer to home. 

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1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Wow. 

Wanting your loving mother to be at your one and only wedding is narcissistic? Really?

And it wouldn't mean they don't think your faith doesn't matter, it would mean they thought there was a compromise to be had that allowed you to hold your faith and be at a once in a lifetime event that they very much want you to be at. That's not a horrible thing. 

 

IF this was the scenario he could have had a civil wedding ceremony, not in the sanctuary of a different faith and she would have been fine.  Choosing to have a ceremony in a different church was forcing her to choose to obey him from a manipulative stance because he's angry at her church.  That is completely different from a loving couple choosing to be together and wanting his mom to participate.  One comes from love, the other from the angry and manipulative act of a child.  I would cave if a couple long in love wanted me there.  I would not cave if the entire wedding was an act of religious abuse.

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2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

But it kinda is when you know you are asking your mother to violate her moral code.  

I honestly and truly cannot wrap my head around a religion that makes it against the moral code to attend my own child's wedding. 

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Just now, Ktgrok said:

 

Wow. 

Wanting your loving mother to be at your one and only wedding is narcissistic? Really?

And it wouldn't mean they don't think your faith doesn't matter, it would mean they thought there was a compromise to be had that allowed you to hold your faith and be at a once in a lifetime event that they very much want you to be at. That's not a horrible thing. 

It's quite out there what some are saying here about the ds. It does seem to be the case that he got married and OP wasn't there. I'm floored some are just trying to spin the ds as being narcissistic and immature for wanting his own flipping mother there! I feel the immaturity lied elsewhere but I know many here don't agree with me. It's especially bothersome when you consider OP attended the other wedding mentioned here but wouldn't attend her own ds'. I get his anger. It might not be expressed the right way but I would be livid and I would be the one waiting for her to make amends - not the other way around. I really shocked, honestly. 

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1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Of all people here you should understand that yes by his demanding I do something against my conscience he is indeed turning on me,  I have never requested anyone do something against their conscience.... much less someone I love 

 

He wanted you to (insert thing) and you wouldn't.  He loves you and he was hurt and he was angry.  He obviously does not fully agree with your reasoning for not doing (insert thing).  He is lashing out in his hurt and anger.  Is the morally high-ground thing to do to respect your decision graciously because you are only honoring your conscience?  Sure.  But is it surprising that because of his emotions he is not seeing it that way?  No, not really surprising at all, considering his age as well as the intensity of emotion this would evoke.  He is taking it personally to him rather than the abstract of "a person respecting their conscience".  This is DEEPLY personal to him and he likely feels deeply hurt by it.  

I'm not saying you owe him an apology or are in the wrong.  But to view his anger as an attack on you personally...seems to me the same as him viewing YOUR choice as an attack on him personally.  Both are being clouded by the emotion of the moment.   Let it sit.  Keep being as much of a loving mom as you can, let him know however you can that you want a relationship with him.  Try VERY hard not to take it personally.  Yes, it's hard and it sucks, but it's the best way to move forward.  

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1 minute ago, Katy said:

 

IF this was the scenario he could have had a civil wedding ceremony, not in the sanctuary of a different faith and she would have been fine.  Choosing to have a ceremony in a different church was forcing her to choose to obey him from a manipulative stance because he's angry at her church.  That is completely different from a loving couple choosing to be together and wanting his mom to participate.  One comes from love, the other from the angry and manipulative act of a child.  I would cave if a couple long in love wanted me there.  I would not cave if the entire wedding was an act of religious abuse.

I can understand this. 

Of course, then you have the issue of what if his moral code requires a church wedding? Or the brides?

Honestly, what I don't get is why this wasn't discussed calmly and rationally ahead of time, and a compromise reached? Or is there no compromise possible, between the two faiths/moral codes/etc?

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4 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Wow. 

Wanting your loving mother to be at your one and only wedding is narcissistic? Really?

And it wouldn't mean they don't think your faith doesn't matter, it would mean they thought there was a compromise to be had that allowed you to hold your faith and be at a once in a lifetime event that they very much want you to be at. That's not a horrible thing. 

Sometimes there is no compromise possible. I am really not following your line of thought. sometimes things are either right or wrong, there is not always a grey.

 

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Just now, Ktgrok said:

I honestly and truly cannot wrap my head around a religion that makes it against the moral code to attend my own child's wedding. 

Well it is not that simple.  At all. He set it up in a way he knew I could it approve of.  And then got angry at me for behaving the exact way everyone knew I would.  

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Just now, Ktgrok said:

I honestly and truly cannot wrap my head around a religion that makes it against the moral code to attend my own child's wedding. 

I completely agree. I did not get married in my dad’s church. It was upsetting to him and he had to bear my decision in regards to his siblings. However, the place of my wedding was a decision made by my spouse and me. We certainly expected our parents to be there even though it wasn’t the religion of any of them. Their love for us is bigger than their thoughts of locations.

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Heck, if the faith rules are such that she can't go into a different house of worship, I'd at that point, if unable to bring myself to go and violate that, go and be outside, and ask they open the doors so I could view it. Or ask them to livestream it via Skype, or somehow show my desire to support the couple although I can't attend. 

Which agains brings me to the question of - was there an attempt to reach a compromise before this actually happened?

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15 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Wow. 

Wanting your loving mother to be at your one and only wedding is narcissistic? Really?

And it wouldn't mean they don't think your faith doesn't matter, it would mean they thought there was a compromise to be had that allowed you to hold your faith and be at a once in a lifetime event that they very much want you to be at. That's not a horrible thing. 

 

Me?  I didn't call anyone narcissistic.  I think you are attributing malice in my post and there is none.  I think it is completely normal for people to want their way, to want to not be made uncomfortable when confronted by such things, to want those they love to want the same things as them.  Sure it can be because they are awful people, but usually it's just because they are normal people behaving in typical human ways to get what they want.  None of which means I have to give them what they want, sweet though their want might be, to prove my love for them.  

Edited by Murphy101
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3 minutes ago, goldberry said:

 

He wanted you to (insert thing) and you wouldn't.  He loves you and he was hurt and he was angry.  He obviously does not fully agree with your reasoning for not doing (insert thing).  He is lashing out in his hurt and anger.  Is the morally high-ground thing to do to respect your decision graciously because you are only honoring your conscience?  Sure.  But is it surprising that because of his emotions he is not seeing it that way?  No, not really surprising at all, considering his age as well as the intensity of emotion this would evoke.  He is taking it personally to him rather than the abstract of "a person respecting their conscience".  This is DEEPLY personal to him and he likely feels deeply hurt by it.  

I'm not saying you owe him an apology or are in the wrong.  But to view his anger as an attack on you personally...seems to me the same as him viewing YOUR choice as an attack on him personally.  Both are being clouded by the emotion of the moment.   Let it sit.  Keep being as much of a loving mom as you can, let him know however you can that you want a relationship with him.  Try VERY hard not to take it personally.  Yes, it's hard and it sucks, but it's the best way to move forward.  

Ok yes.I agree . 

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2 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Sometimes there is no compromise possible. I am really not following your line of thought. sometimes things are either right or wrong, there is not always a grey.

 

As in, an alternate neutral location, or two ceremonies, etc etc etc...often people from various faith backgrounds have to try to reach a compromise. 

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Just now, Murphy101 said:

 

Me?  I didn't call anyone narcissistic.  

I was quoting two posts, the other one I quoted in the same post did use the word narcissistic. 

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