This is a Public Service Announcement about your Elementary Child's College Future

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1. The average cost of attending college, and living there is about 120-200K for an in-state university. In fact, even at the more affordable ones, your child is likely to take five years to graduate because of overcrowding.  So you better plan on closer to 200. If your little genius wants to go to an Ivy League it's closer to 300K for four years.  

2.  Most of your kids will not qualify for federal subsidized loans.  Most of you will have to do private loans or Parent PLus loans, which have a payback time of TEN YEARS.  You know those 30 year loans you hear about?  They're kind of a special case thing.  Mostly everyone ends up with ten year loans.  The cost of your kid's education will be 1500.00 per month for ten years if you use the average Parent Plus (Federal) Loan.

3.  Scholarships really aren't a thing in many state's public colleges.  So, stop counting on scholarships.  Here in CA the most generous scholarships are a pittance, just 6k per year with priority room and board assignments (aka guaranteed on campus housing if they want it) ....every state university system varies but trust me, your little junior is NOT likely to get scholarships that will make a huge difference.  

4.  Yes, private schools do have Merit Aid but again, your little junior either needs to be an amazing genius or the merit aid will be very, very very small.  

5.  You may say "ah but I have a huge mortgage, and all these payments, and my own student loans, so maybe the government will give my kid grants. "  Nope, they are not likely to, unless you are extremely, and I mean extremely low income with a multitude of mouths to feed. 

Moral of the story:

START SAVING NOW, seriously saving.  Use your state's 529 plan.   Because, even if you have great community colleges and your kid will go to them first, the amount above is still huge at 70k per kid.  

The reason I am sharing this is that it is absolutely heartbreaking to see how many parents on the facebook page of my son's university, never looked into this, and allowed their student to ACCEPT admission, put in a deposit, tell their whole family, buy the tee shirt, and make plans to attend and NOW have NO IDEA how they will pay for it.  Literally looking at 200K of debt, or telling the kid, they can't go after all.  It's very heartbreaking.  

More parents need to think ahead! And also talk turkey with your kids and if you cannot afford for them to go to a four year university, make sure they know they'll be attending community college and that they can get a great educaiton there and then transfer...(but that's still about 70K)

🙂

Special thanks to 8Fill and the parents on the College and HIgh School board who've been sharing this which is a big part of the reason we were able to start saving enough.  

 

 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Calming Tea

[8filltheheart]

While I do agree with your main sentiment--that college can be crazy expensive and by far most parents are completely clueless about the entire process-- I don't believe the picture has to be that dire if parents educate themselves and don't get sucked into believing that only certain schools will open doors to careers.

We have managed to have 4 of our adult children attend schools that offered the degree programs they wanted at very low cost. It required attending schools based on affordability, not "dream schools" or "name." Our current 12th grader is a solidly avg student with very low drive. Her option has been completely narrowed down to living at home and commuting (room and board are huge expenses avging $12-15000+/yr.....that amt is more than any annual budget we give our kids.). It is currently looking like she will qualify for 30-50% off tuition.  With that amt of scholarship and living at home, her total costs should stay on par with what her siblings have averaged.

Our other avg student pursued a 2 yr Allied Health degree vs a 4 yr degree. Her costs were very low and she now has a very decent paying career.  Her 8th grade sister is likely to end up with a 2 yr degree rather than a 4 yr (or none at all bc she has been coming up with a business plan for her own company. She is pretty adamant about what she wants to do, and other than managerial/business practices, she really doesn't need a degree.) 

So, no, I don't think you need $70-200,000 per child if you are willing to stand firm and guide your kids to less desirable/more affordable alternatives. I personally don't think any kid "deserves" a $200,000 UG education bc "they worked so hard in high schoo." Plenty of adults work hard every day, yr round, and don't take home $50,000/yr. So, my POV is more about perception of needing a brand---I completely disagree with that POV. Kids who are motivated can succeed anywhere they are planted by using every opportunity available to them. 

In terms of financial aid.....federal grants are limited to Pell and FSEOG. Those are limited to those with low incomes. All students can qualify for federal student loans of 5500, 6500, 7500. Only $3500 can be subsidized (no interest) and that again is based on income.

[BakersDozen]

Quote

And also talk turkey with your kids and if you cannot afford for them to go to a four year university, make sure they know they'll be attending community college and that they can get a great educaiton there and then transfer...(but that's still about 70K)

Agree with a few minor changes: "And also talk turkey with your kids and if they cannot afford to go to a four-year university, make sure they know they'll be attending community college and that they can get a great education there and then transfer...(but that's still about 70K which they are fully responsible for paying for).

So far our 4 graduates have known this and haven't done something like apply to a school they can't afford. And if they do...it's on them. 

 

[teachermom2834]

Really looking hard at the numbers by the time kids start high school and being totally realistic about options is the biggest thing. While some colleges might “give great aid” that isn’t enough to go on. You need to figure out what that means to your individual family. While a student who gets a $40,000 scholarship to a $60,000/yr school did, indeed, get a large scholarship, it does not mean the $20,000 is affordable.

It is just a time to be brutally honest and realistic. So many people run the NPC and just don’t believe it will really be that high. It usually is.

Even lower income folks that qualify for pell grants in their package often end up with a final tab that is undoable. The initial price tags are so expensive it just takes a lot to bring the cost down very low.

My kids have to choose from a small list of affordable options and then they need scholarships, federal loans, and to contribute from their own earnings. So far they have all been able to live away from home. But they didn’t have a long list of schools that approach would work at.

Federal student loans can really help but the school has to be pretty affordable before they are a significant help. $5500 off a $10000 bill is helpful. $5500 off a $30000 bill- not so much.

But there are options out there. Parents that just say dc must live at home or must go to cc first without investigating aren’t correct either. Sometimes that is the best option but other times there are other choices a student can make. But the process definitely requires parents with eyes wide open and willing to put some time in figuring it all out without getting swept up in ratings and dream schools and the absolutely perfect fit.

 

[...................]

Absolutely, If you live in a lower COL state (TN, some in medwest etc) you may be able to adjust all of those numbers down.

And part of the conversation should definitely be explaining your limitations to your kids. 

There is also ROTC, etc. Not every kid Is cut out for a health field. Not every kid can join ROTC due to limitations. 

My point is you still have to START SAVING now and look at different college options and start ruling out what you cannot afford. 

There is no magic money tree and your kids are NOT likely to get big scholarships.    Your kid may not be cut out for a health degree or for for ROTC- and if you don’t have a university within commuting distance your options become very limited.   With a state university within commuting distance - as long as it is not Selective you have a fantastic affordable option. 

But you have to think about it now so you can start saving. 

🙂 

 

[73349]

What happens if we pour thousands of dollars into a 529 and our only child doesn't go to college?

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30 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

What happens if we pour thousands of dollars into a 529 and our only child doesn't go to college?

You can still take it out and use it for whatever you want, but you pay the capital gains type tax on it.  (Investment tax)...529s are after-tax money so just the investment tax.

You can also transfer it (without paying the investment taxes) to a grandchild, niece or nephew, I believe.  

Edited July 20, 2019 by Calming Tea

[Arcadia]

12 hours ago, Calming Tea said:

   Because, even if you have great community colleges and your kid will go to them first, the amount above is still huge at 70k per kid.  

 

That seems high assuming kid is staying at home and commuting to community college. $70k per kid seems higher than two years cost of attendance at SJSU (as a commuter student http://www.sjsu.edu/faso/docs/1920_COA_ugrd.pdf) for example. I just did my DS14’s residency status verification last week at the admin office for dual enrollment, and cost of attendance for a full time commuter student is estimated at $14k per year (and that includes room and board expenses while staying at home https://foothill.edu/financialaid/cost.html).

Locally, even the public school kids are taking advantage of dual enrollment and getting their associates before graduating high school. Using CLEP and AP scores for credit is another way to lower cost.

1 minute ago, whitehawk said:

What happens if we pour thousands of dollars into a 529 and our only child doesn't go to college?

 

You can use the 529 funds for yourself if your child doesn’t use it (or use it up). We didn’t open a 529 and instead just park the cash in CDs (certificate of deposit/fixed deposits). We feel safer with higher amounts of fluid cash as retrenchments are quite common in my husband’s job field. There has been reduction in force recently at his office.

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1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

 

That seems high assuming kid is staying at home and commuting to community college. $70k per kid seems higher than two years cost of attendance at SJSU (as a commuter student http://www.sjsu.edu/faso/docs/1920_COA_ugrd.pdf) for example. I just did my DS14’s residency status verification last week at the admin office for dual enrollment, and cost of attendance for a full time commuter student is estimated at $14k per year (and that includes room and board expenses while staying at home https://foothill.edu/financialaid/cost.html).

Locally, even the public school kids are taking advantage of dual enrollment and getting their associates before graduating high school. Using CLEP and AP scores for credit is another way to lower cost.

 

You can use the 529 funds for yourself if your child doesn’t use it (or use it up). We didn’t open a 529 and instead just park the cash in CDs (certificate of deposit/fixed deposits). We feel safer with higher amounts of fluid cash as retrenchments are quite common in my husband’s job field. There has been reduction in force recently at his office.

 

NO I mean it's 70k to attend UC AFTER community college.  COmmunity college is practically free.

[Arcadia]

6 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

NO I mean it's 70k to attend UC AFTER community college.  Community college is practically free.

 

I misunderstood 🙂  I am estimating UC at above $40k per year.

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1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

 

I misunderstood 🙂  I am estimating UC at above $40k per year.

 

The 70 was adding both years together, 

[73349]

25 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

 

That seems high assuming kid is staying at home and commuting to community college. $70k per kid seems higher than two years cost of attendance at SJSU (as a commuter student http://www.sjsu.edu/faso/docs/1920_COA_ugrd.pdf) for example. I just did my DS14’s residency status verification last week at the admin office for dual enrollment, and cost of attendance for a full time commuter student is estimated at $14k per year (and that includes room and board expenses while staying at home https://foothill.edu/financialaid/cost.html).

Locally, even the public school kids are taking advantage of dual enrollment and getting their associates before graduating high school. Using CLEP and AP scores for credit is another way to lower cost.

 

You can use the 529 funds for yourself if your child doesn’t use it (or use it up). We didn’t open a 529 and instead just park the cash in CDs (certificate of deposit/fixed deposits). We feel safer with higher amounts of fluid cash as retrenchments are quite common in my husband’s job field. There has been reduction in force recently at his office.

Layoffs are very common in my DH's field as well, and neither of us intends to pursue more degrees. It seems hard to find investments that suit us well. I will see if the credit union offers CDs.

[ScoutTN]

I appreciate the advice and we are definitely educating ourselves and our children about the financial realities as our first is entering 9th.

BUT, some of us have ZERO ability to save for college. Just not possible. We live on a super tight budget with minimal wiggle room. I work two part time jobs and dh can't pick up anything else. I expect there are others here in the same boat. Not everyone has the luxury of saving for college! 

 

Edited July 20, 2019 by ScoutTN

[teachermom2834]

Was just about to comment about saving...obviously saving is ideal but the prospect of saving enough for four children to attend college is just so out of reach. It isn’t just a function of not thinking ahead to save or not thinking it will be needed. You can be left with very little to pay for college through no fault of your own. Even if we socked away $100,000 (totally not doable here) it wouldn’t go far for four kids. 

We did think way ahead and we did save quite a bit considering our income. But it is a pittance in the grand scheme of things. Most people are not going to be able to save themselves out of a college financing predicament.

By all means saving is good. Of course. In most cases, especially with multiple children, whatever is saved is still just one piece of the puzzle. 

[Condessa]

WOW.  Those numbers are pretty stunning.  

One note—sometimes there may be more economical options for universities than state schools.  My church has a private university that is half the cost of instate tuition for my state school, and much better ranked.  And they offer some very good merit aid scholarships.  Of course, the other side of that is that it is much harder to get into than state schools.  I have a goal to give each kid the amount that tuition would cost there to apply towards whatever they decide to do with their higher educations, and am totally overwhelmed by that amount.  But it’s more like $20k per kid than $200k.

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2 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

I appreciate the advice and we are definitely educating ourselves and our children about the financial realities as our first is entering 9th.

BUT, some of us have ZERO ability to save for college. Just not possible. We live on a super tight budget with minimal wiggle room. I work two part time jobs and dh can't pick up anything else. I expect there are others here in the same boat. Not everyone has the luxury of saving for college! 

 

 

...you still have to plan ahead.  If you have no plan for college you'll need to make one regardless of whether that is saving or something else.  

Other plans:

Allied Health

ROTC

Community College and then Transfer (be careful because unless you are extremely low income you still will have to foot the bill and the Stafford loan is only 55-6500)....and your kid cannot get a loan in their name only- the bill is on you.  

Refinancing your house

College of the Ozarks

Going straight into the army/navy/AF/Coast guard etc.

Tell your kid they need to work part or full time, and commute to local state U (if you are lucky enough to live within commuting distance and it is not too selective), and that they will just need to take a little longer to graduate...

....etc.

What I am trying to make people aware of and want to help people avoid, is parents "putting off" the research into this, and just realizing last minute, one or two years, or God forbid, a few months before their kid goes to college that they really can't afford it, can't get loans they can handle, and now have no other plans.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Calming Tea

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2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

Was just about to comment about saving...obviously saving is ideal but the prospect of saving enough for four children to attend college is just so out of reach. It isn’t just a function of not thinking ahead to save or not thinking it will be needed. You can be left with very little to pay for college through no fault of your own. Even if we socked away $100,000 (totally not doable here) it wouldn’t go far for four kids. 

We did think way ahead and we did save quite a bit considering our income. But it is a pittance in the grand scheme of things. Most people are not going to be able to save themselves out of a college financing predicament.

By all means saving is good. Of course. In most cases, especially with multiple children, whatever is saved is still just one piece of the puzzle. 

 

Well then that is all the more reason why this PSA is useful...for those of you aware and chiming in there are hopefully 200 who were like oh geez I didn't really think of that.  And you have to start solving those puzzle pieces a little bit ahead of time.  And getting creative, and making sure your kids get part time jobs, and talking turkey with them from 8th grade on "Well we can't afford OOS or such and such school, though I believe we can swing such and such school.  Let's look into (insert creative avenue here), ROTC, or are you interested in being a dental hygienist?  

And every penny saved will help of course 🙂 

[teachermom2834]

Just as a counter point- my two dc in college are going for much less than these figures.

They do have scholarships but no one is super high stats.  Where we live they could hustle in the summer and make $7000. Add that to the federal loans and you have some choices. Add a little bit from mom and dad (money freed up from not paying for homeschooling or extracurriculars anymore, tax credits, etc). 

Of course they didn't have tons of choices on that budget but we didn't refinance our house or sign private or PLUS loans. Next ds is higher stat and might be able to make it without loans.

Scholarships+student employment+parental help+federal loans+ any other financial aid+bringing in de credits, etc etc, can make a way.

I understand it is not the case in CA but all is not doom and gloom. Some people write off college prematurely.

Every student within every family is going to have a unique situation.

@ScoutTN- if you are in TN, hit me up in a couple of years when you are ready to start figuring it out 🙂

 

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2 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Just as a counter point- my two dc in college are going for much less than these figures.

They do have scholarships but no one is super high stats.  Where we live they could hustle in the summer and make $7000. Add that to the federal loans and you have some choices. Add a little bit from mom and dad (money freed up from not paying for homeschooling or extracurriculars anymore, tax credits, etc). 

Of course they didn't have tons of choices on that budget but we didn't refinance our house or sign private or PLUS loans. Next ds is higher stat and might be able to make it without loans.

Scholarships+student employment+parental help+federal loans+ any other financial aid+bringing in de credits, etc etc, can make a way.

I understand it is not the case in CA but all is not doom and gloom. Some people write off college prematurely.

Every student within every family is going to have a unique situation.

@ScoutTN- if you are in TN, hit me up in a couple of years when you are ready to start figuring it out 🙂

 

 

Trust me, very few parents will write off college for their kids.  THe problem in our society is exactly 100% opposite of that.  Every parent wants to give their kid the very best, but few have any clue, how expensive it can be, or even that they need to carefully look into it.  

Scout, run the EFC's for the colleges your kids might be interested in.  If you are truly low income, you may get some grants 🙂

[cbollin]

16 hours ago, Calming Tea said:

1

2.  Most of your kids will not qualify for federal subsidized loans.  

 

 

 

Since this a PSA thread,  will you expand your answer on that, please? 

[teachermom2834]

We are in different world for sure @Calming Tea

Where I live it truly is parents writing off college because of the numbers. My kids go away to not fancy schools and people think we must be loaded or drowning in debt. People rarely go away to any college at all. 

I do understand the heavy debt for prestigious school is a thing because I read about it all the time. I don’t however know anyone in that situation. My world is much more full of people who feel like it is hopeless or not worth it because of the price tag.

I realize we are in very different places. The discussion is good and people can apply it to their situations. 

[Matryoshka]

6 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Just as a counter point- my two dc in college are going for much less than these figures.

They do have scholarships but no one is super high stats.  Where we live they could hustle in the summer and make $7000. Add that to the federal loans and you have some choices. Add a little bit from mom and dad (money freed up from not paying for homeschooling or extracurriculars anymore, tax credits, etc). 

Of course they didn't have tons of choices on that budget but we didn't refinance our house or sign private or PLUS loans. Next ds is higher stat and might be able to make it without loans.

Scholarships+student employment+parental help+federal loans+ any other financial aid+bringing in de credits, etc etc, can make a way.

I understand it is not the case in CA but all is not doom and gloom. Some people write off college prematurely.

Every student within every family is going to have a unique situation.

@ScoutTN- if you are in TN, hit me up in a couple of years when you are ready to start figuring it out 🙂

There are more affordable options, but they're not affordable or available to everyone.  Those full-tuition scholarships don't exist in my state.  Not everyone lives within driving distance of a 4-year state university that offers the major their kid wants.  We were lucky that we can afford the state universities, but that meant setting limits.  We basically said they could go anywhere as long as it didn't cost more than the state tuition.  Even my one high stats dd (34 ACT, CompSci and Math major) - did not manage that.  Sure, she got in to every single school she applied to, and they gave her merit aid, but only one brought it down to where our contribution would be the same as the state school, and she still would have had to take out her own loans (we were lucky enough to be able to offer  to pay for state school with no loans for them).  Another of my kids did the CC and transfer.

BUT... the majority of people where I am want 'prestige' schools.  I think the OP is saying - save as much as you can, but definitely PLAN.  If you want to save on room/board, you'll need to live close enough for your kid to commute.  If you want free in-state tuition, you'd better live somewhere that offers it.  Look at the fine print - my state does supposedly have a 'free tuition' plan - turns out that it's all smoke and mirrors.  "Tuition" just was held flat for the last 20 years or so, while "Fees" have skyrocketed.  State flagship's "Tuition" rebate stayed steady at $1700.  Fees/R&B are now $30+K, of which about $12K is room&board.  I know lots of people who thought they had free tuition who were blindsided by this.

One of the schools my dd got into but didn't attend was running $60K for ONE YEAR of tuition/r&b.  That was 3 years ago.  A recent poster said that same school is going up to $85K for next year.  $200K is probably going to be a bargain for 4 years of school by the time elementary aged kids get there.  Or the whole thing will crash and burn, but I kept thinking that had to happen before my kids got to school the way things were going, but the insanity continues.

[cbollin]

42 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

 

...y

....and your kid cannot get a loan in their name only- the bill is on you. 

 

I think I'm missed something here.

My daughter graduated college last year (2018).  All of her federal student loans are her name only.  She was not a transfer student from community college. 4 year undergrad. And we are not low income brackets.  And yes, it was part subsidized and part un-subsidized pretty much just like the FAQ says on the FAFSA and student loan site. 

I agree that it's important to think ahead and plan for major expenses and know about other ways to achieve academic goals needed for employment. 

[teachermom2834]

4 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

To the bolded...It's completely true that not every option is available to all.  Everyone's options are all different.  What's an option in one place isn't an option elsewhere and vice versa.  And that does point to the main idea of the OP, as you mention in your second paragraph, even if the details are debatable.  Think ahead.  Plan ahead.  The choices the parents make when their kids are in elementary school and middle school CAN make a difference.  

 

Right. I don’t think the situation for my family and the options available are out there for everyone. I actually agree with the spirit of the OP (I think I said that but maybe not). I just had issue with some of the rest of the details. I tell everyone that will listen to plan ahead for college. 

I just took the OP to be incredibly discouraging so I was presenting a counter point. Again- the people I am around don’t let their kids apply to college because they are afraid of the cost. Opposite problem of people applying to expensive schools they cant afford. 

Someone mentioned not being able to save so I was explaining how my family did that without ROTC or refinancing our house. I am aware my approach would not work on the coasts.  

 

[...................]

1 hour ago, cbollin said:

 

I think I'm missed something here.

My daughter graduated college last year (2018).  All of her federal student loans are her name only.  She was not a transfer student from community college. 4 year undergrad. And we are not low income brackets.  And yes, it was part subsidized and part un-subsidized pretty much just like the FAQ says on the FAFSA and student loan site. 

I agree that it's important to think ahead and plan for major expenses and know about other ways to achieve academic goals needed for employment. 

 

Only low income students can get federal student loans in their name (other than the stafford which is offered to everyone but adjusted  for income) 

 

so you must be low income in the eyes of the FAFSA people for one reason or another. 

[...................]

Only low income students qualify for Federal Subsidized Student loans. I believe the max is 12,500, but not sure.

the rest of students will be offered an unsubsidized loan. Which is about 5500-6500 depending on your income. 

After that the only federal aid is the Parent Plus loan which is an unsubsidized loan. PLUS loans don’t require a credit score but just that you “don’t have adverse credit history” and parents can borrow up to the total amount, and it’s a 10 year payoff. 

If you got any type of subsidized loan at all, it is because you are low income in the eyes of the FAFSA. 

Middle and higher income students get absolutely no subsidized loans at all, either as student loans or parents. 

(I am not talking about private loans at all in the last few posts- those require a parent to co-sign and are much more based on the creditworthyness  of the parents) 

this is why people need a warning. Until about 5 years ago we thought, “we will pay some and our kids will take out federal loans in their names”. But we didn’t know that middle and high income earners’ kids aren’t offered anything but the Stafford loan. 

So parents rely on privately loans or the parent Plus which has a 7% interest rate. 

[...................]

3 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Actually, a lot of people do.  Part of the reason my brother and niece hadn't really discussed it is because SIL had completely written it off.  

 

That’s just not what I’m seeing in my local area or on the Private Facebook college groups/ they truly want to send their kid where ever   the kid dreamed and just didn’t ever consider the cost! 

I’m glad you pointed out people should not give up on the idea of college. That was not my intention AT ALL and I can’t imagine as a parent just ruling something like that out without creatively and tirelessly seeking all avenues!!  I don’t know a single parent anywhere in Any of my aquatimace online or in person that has ever even hinted that way. 

 Most assume their child will go to live away at a four year college and that, like Ferrar said, it is expensive but do-able. And they don’t even really look into the numbers, or run their EFC, or look at the costs. 

But yes by all means please don’t rule it out. There are creative ways to make it happen, there are alternatives and you really never know what the heck the FAFSA will say. They don’t release their criteria. 

 

 

 

[Matryoshka]

9 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

Only low income students qualify for Federal Subsidized Student loans. I believe the max is 12,500, but not sure.

the rest of students will be offered an unsubsidized loan. Which is about 5500-6500 depending on your income. 

After that the only federal aid is the Parent Plus loan which is an unsubsidized loan. PLUS loans don’t require a credit score but just that you “don’t have adverse credit history” and parents can borrow up to the total amount, and it’s a 10 year payoff. 

If you got any type of subsidized loan at all, it is because you are low income in the eyes of the FAFSA. 

Middle and higher income students get absolutely no subsidized loans at all, either as student loans or parents. 

(I am not talking about private loans at all in the last few posts- those require a parent to co-sign and are much more based on the creditworthyness  of the parents) 

this is why people need a warning. Until about 5 years ago we thought, “we will pay some and our kids will take out federal loans in their names”. But we didn’t know that middle and high income earners’ kids aren’t offered anything but the Stafford loan. 

So parents rely on privately loans or the parent Plus which has a 7% interest rate. 

I didn't know any students were eligible for more than the $5500/freshman year or $6-7500/year thereafter, unless their parents were denied a Parents Plus loan.

The 'standard' student loan (that's Stafford?) can be subsidized, unsubsidized, or a mix, based on income.  My kids were offered some subsidized student loans, just not the whole amount - a bit less than half.  Still added up to $5500 in loans, just some part of them would start collecting interest while they were in school, and the rest not. We are not low income, we got no other needs-based 'aid' (I don't consider loans to be that helpful, lol).  It's probably because we had twins, so two starting at once.  We have been able to decline them all so far.  We have a third student starting in the fall (yikes!).

[...................]

So there you have it- if matryshka is correct, unless you qualify for grants, your student isn't getting squat compared to the total cost of LIVE IN attendance at a large university.  Your student may be lucky enough to get a small SUBSIDIZED loan, whereas middle and higher income earners' loans are UNSubsidized. 

But, the parent has to shoulder the majority of the burden.  

SO, unless your student is commuting to a very affordable state school, and living at home, those federal student loans are a pittance.  And there is NOTHING wrong with commuting and all that- but it's better to know ahead of time that that's your only option than to build up your child's plans and dreams for something else and then be shocked at the last second. Better to be realistic about money.

[PeterPan]

4 hours ago, Matryoshka said:

$200K is probably going to be a bargain for 4 years of school by the time elementary aged kids get there.

Bingo. When my dd was born and we started her 529 (which we did, yes, and contributed to as we could, yes), the total cost at the school she is now attending was under $10k a year. Now it is close to 3X that. And that's NOT a swank school. So new parents or parents saving for little ones can assume the costs will go up.

On the bright side, if you save planning for current costs in your area or probable schools, then the amount you have saved will at least cover what remains after the scholarship. That's what happened for us. Well that and the generosity of a relative to cover incidentals. Just the incidentals can eat you alive--laptop, flights home, replacing the laptop when it gets drowned, travel abroad, etc.

The other thing newbies might not know is that 529 funds roll over to another dc, that dc for life purposes, whatever if they are not used. There are some tax implications there, but no matter what saving in a 529 is good.

Edited July 20, 2019 by PeterPan

[Wheres Toto]

My daughter went to our local state university.  No scholarships or aid from the school.  Her tuition and fees were about $12,000 per year and she paid about another $12,000 per year for room and board.    She used a combination of Stafford loans and working to pay for her room and board (we were "low income" for a couple of her school years).  Her tuition was split between us and her dad (by divorce decree).     But her total for 4 years of tuition was about $48,000.    And we are in a very HCOL area and she didn't go to the least expensive state university.   

We paid our portion with a combination of a state government loan program and school payment plans.  

[8filltheheart]

7 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

I appreciate the advice and we are definitely educating ourselves and our children about the financial realities as our first is entering 9th.

BUT, some of us have ZERO ability to save for college. Just not possible. We live on a super tight budget with minimal wiggle room. I work two part time jobs and dh can't pick up anything else. I expect there are others here in the same boat. Not everyone has the luxury of saving for college! 

 

There is no way we could have ever saved what our expected contribution is for all of our kids. Our calculated contribution is way out of proportion with our income bc we have so many kids and our kids are spread out over 21 yrs.  (FA calculations are far more family friendly when kids are close together in age and overlap in college yrs.)

We have been very firm with our kids about what we are willing to contribute toward college---under $10,000/yr and preferably much less. All of kids except our Aspie have stayed under $7000/yr. (His autism support program was $16,000 a yr alone, but his situation is atypical and that money ended up being a complete waste bc he dropped out and went back this yr and dropped out again.) Of the 5 (including our Aspie), 4 have gone away to school, not commuted. Our Dd who is an OTA attended the only instate program which was 5 hrs away from where we lived, but as a CC student and renting an apt, her degree was very inexpensive. 

So, it is doable. But, it takes saying no or telling them to come up with a different goal. No, we are not going to pay more bc the less motivated student didn't get the same scholarship as the highly motivated kids (or avg students compared to top performers).  We are not equal opportunity parents who believe all kids should get the same experiences. If some of the kids earned an away 4 yr college experience through scholarships, no, we won't pay for the student who didn't earn a scholarship to have the same experience. It doesn't really matter to us as to why they didn't. The budget sticks for everyone.

Scholarships currently are available at multiple lower ranked schools for kids who could have attend top competitive schools in the country. But, honestly, most top competitive kids look down their noses at those schools as beneath their abilities. (Good news for our kids bc it means they have a higher percentage opportunity to be awarded them. ) Kids don't have to pursue their desired career. Harsh, but true. Students do not need to pursue a 4 yr degree. They can pursue a trade, etc. The default progression at the end of k12 does not have to mean 4 yr U?

[cbollin]

21 hours ago, Calming Tea said:

 

Only low income students can get federal student loans in their name (other than the stafford which is offered to everyone but adjusted  for income) 

 

so you must be low income in the eyes of the FAFSA people for one reason or another. 

 

Thank you for expanding your answer.

We're going to agree to disagree.   Our EFC had 5 digits.  We did not get any federal grants/loans based on low income. We were not considered low income by FAFSA.  She was eligible for those in her own name loans based on the fafsa site (going to 4 year college, degree seeking, still some need after scholarship, etc).  We will agree that "stafford" loans are in the student's name. I think the issues are getting blurred on "adjusted for income".  The amount of stafford loans can be reduced. Quoting from the studentaid.ed.gov FAQ " Your school determines the amount you can borrow, and the amount may not exceed your financial need. "

Yes, it's connected in some ways to income, but it's also about costs.  Also  on the adjusted for income is that Stafford loans have an income adjusted repayment plan but that's not what you're discussing right now.

My oldest attended a private university in our area. College specific scholarships combined with state grants accounted for about 70% of tuition were based just on ACT score. Yes, in my state there are some state grants that can be used at private schools in the state.  "Stafford loans" which she got in her name for the max amounts for sub and unsub.  (by the way, your numbers of 12, 500 are not what shows on the fafsa site for what she got.  The number 8fill gave way up thread are the ones I'm talking about).  The rest (which was about 4500 each semester) was paid from our savings and it was to cover on campus instead of commute. So, yes we planned and saved so that amount was paid for us without loan. Well, ok, there was this one semester where we did the college installment payment plan for that amount and there was a small 1% tagged on to pay in 4 installments instead of 1 payment.  But that's not a parent loan.   We had some cash flow issues when some major repairs so it was nice to use that feature for short term.  If we did not have that option of cash built up over 18 years, then we would have encouraged her to go to State university and commute.  That state univ is really close to the private college (maybe 10 minutes of city street driving).  

I agree with the essential part of the original post in that don't assume you get full rides, and figure some of this out before your child goes there.  Use the cost estimating tools on college website.  Talk with the colleges about this.  Don't take on more debt than you can.  Talk with your students.  Go to financial aid nights at relatively local colleges.  Get on their mailing lists or call and ask.  And read through the FAQ and information on https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized

 Also, as part of PSA and hearing from recent graduate experiences:  my oldest had a small campus job for the first two years, and some other paying job (internship) in other years.  She diligently paid off the Un-Subsidized loans in full at end of each school year as she went along. And then some payments went to the subsidized.  She was only left with 16,000 in loans a month after graduation.  She has a "low monthly" payment and it is auto deducted from her checking.  Doing so, she got to have her interest rate slightly reduced.  She also rounded up a few extra dollars for each payment (example numbers.  the 10 year pay off plan said that her monthlly payment would be 162.  She allocated 175. the extra goes to principal, right?)

PSA info on college payment with my middle: her path to associates degree (which will probably be her final degree for long while) was to use Community College combined with very resourceful planning of CLEP exam credit.  She entered community college with 37 credits via CLEP exams.  She did not have to pay for those exams or the test center fee because she got vouchers from a group called modernstates dot org.  After those 9 carefully planned CLEP exams, she only had 8 classes to take at community college. Given the tuition there, we can pay that out of pocket (especially since she is not full time there.)  We were also eligible for some state grants to use during the semesters she was "half time" enrolled.  I think total cost for her degree will be about the same as the semester of our out of pocket cost for oldest.  

Lots of ways this can work out.  I list my experiences in case it helps someone else.

 

adding a PS a few hours later:  in financial aid Income is not the same word as "financial need".  For the examples I listed with my family, our income did not increase significantly from graduation of child 1 to college entry for child 2.  Yet our "financial need" decreased dramatically because tuition at community college is very small.  Thus, child 2 was not eligible for (subsidized) student loans at community college ( and we did not need other loans either).   Income did not change.  EFC was in the same ballpark.  But Financial need based on costs of specific college was not eligible for "stafford".  hope that clarifies 

Edited July 21, 2019 by cbollin

[Farrar]

Since no one addressed the overcrowding thing... this is a huge issue in some states like California, and not at all a major issue in many other states. As well, since you've posted this on the elementary board... by the time most of these kids hit college, the overcrowding that was so intense the last year or two at many schools may well be down. Demographically, there are slightly fewer kids coming along in about five years or so. Plus a lot of the ways community colleges have changed things and schools have expanded and changed offerings... overcrowding could continue to be a big issue, but there's a good chance that it won't be, at least not on the level of the last couple of years. And not in a way that is likely to prevent a student from getting the classes they need.

[...................]

Thanks for the info about the change in populations. 

However, since this thread is about planning ahead, I would still say that people whose state colleges are overcrowded should plan on 5 years of undergrad. 

I disagree that the overcrowding will end or stop. After all these colleges are making the decisions to admit this many students because its in their financial best interest. It’s like airlines over-selling flights. They have realized it’s WAY more economical to oversell flights and give vouchers. Colleges aren’t going back now. They’ve seen that people will lie down and take it and  they’re not going to change their new ways. 

CalStates say it takes an average of 6 years now. UCs say to plan for 5. Pennsylvania colleges have the same problem. 

I could be wrong and I’m no economist. But I think if your state colleges are already overcrowded, you should consider this the brave new world of colleges. 

[Farrar]

2 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

Thanks for the info about the change in populations. 

However, since this thread is about planning ahead, I would still say that people whose state colleges are overcrowded should plan on 5 years of undergrad. 

I disagree that the overcrowding will end or stop. After all these colleges are making the decisions to admit this many students because its in their financial best interest. It’s like airlines over-selling flights. They have realized it’s WAY more economical to oversell flights and give vouchers. Colleges aren’t going back now. They’ve seen that people will lie down and take it and  they’re not going to change their new ways. 

CalStates say it takes an average of 6 years now. UCs say to plan for 5. Pennsylvania colleges have the same problem. 

I could be wrong and I’m no economist. But I think if your state colleges are already overcrowded, you should consider this the brave new world of colleges. 

I think it's unlikely to ease in a serious enough way in California specifically. I mean, UC Irvine literally enrolled so many kids they had to defer some before they could even start two years ago. California folks should keep thinking about this as a potential factor. But it's not anywhere near on that level anywhere else. And the overcrowding that some schools have had in the last couple of years... it may well ease a bit. Remember that there is also a regional crisis in New England right now where small private colleges are shutting down due to lack of enrollment. Basically, I think your perspective is probably regionally biased.

[Lori D.]

In case anyone reading this thread is interested, on the College Board, on PAGE 3 of the big pinned "College Motherlode" thread, are links to some fantastic past threads that explain college costs, how financial aid works, and alternative ways to fund college or reduce the cost of college. Here are some of those threads:

College Costs
How much does college cost
Newbie Q[uestion] about college costs (and financial aid) 
Help me understand how to pay for college

How Financial Aid works
Understanding financial aid (great explanations and info)
Can someone please walk me through how financial aid works in the USA
I think I need help with guidance counseling, I.e., I’m clueless (great intro info on financial aid + other topics)

Alternatives to fund college / reduce college costs
s/o Cautionary Tale/high college costs — a brainstorm $$ ideas thread!
How are YOU managing to pay for college? (lots of real-life creative ideas)
College as cheap as possible: need advice
College breaking the piggy bank? (how are homeschoolers affording college?)

Edited July 21, 2019 by Lori D.

[...................]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

I think it's unlikely to ease in a serious enough way in California specifically. I mean, UC Irvine literally enrolled so many kids they had to defer some before they could even start two years ago. California folks should keep thinking about this as a potential factor. But it's not anywhere near on that level anywhere else. And the overcrowding that some schools have had in the last couple of years... it may well ease a bit. Remember that there is also a regional crisis in New England right now where small private colleges are shutting down due to lack of enrollment. Basically, I think your perspective is probably regionally biased.

 

That is probably true.  I guess I didn't realize there was such a reduction in students going to college.  What is the cause of that?  Is it because of lower birth rates during the recession back in 2006ish?

I do know there are other states that have impacted, overcrowded campuses but that may be that those particular campuses are just so popular.  

[...................]

14 hours ago, cbollin said:

 

Thank you for expanding your answer.

We're going to agree to disagree.   Our EFC had 5 digits.  We did not get any federal grants/loans based on low income. We were not considered low income by FAFSA.  She was eligible for those in her own name loans based on the fafsa site (going to 4 year college, degree seeking, still some need after scholarship, etc).  We will agree that "stafford" loans are in the student's name. I think the issues are getting blurred on "adjusted for income".  The amount of stafford loans can be reduced. Quoting from the studentaid.ed.gov FAQ " Your school determines the amount you can borrow, and the amount may not exceed your financial need. "

Yes, it's connected in some ways to income, but it's also about costs.  Also  on the adjusted for income is that Stafford loans have an income adjusted repayment plan but that's not what you're discussing right now.

My oldest attended a private university in our area. College specific scholarships combined with state grants accounted for about 70% of tuition were based just on ACT score. Yes, in my state there are some state grants that can be used at private schools in the state.  "Stafford loans" which she got in her name for the max amounts for sub and unsub.  (by the way, your numbers of 12, 500 are not what shows on the fafsa site for what she got.  The number 8fill gave way up thread are the ones I'm talking about).  The rest (which was about 4500 each semester) was paid from our savings and it was to cover on campus instead of commute. So, yes we planned and saved so that amount was paid for us without loan. Well, ok, there was this one semester where we did the college installment payment plan for that amount and there was a small 1% tagged on to pay in 4 installments instead of 1 payment.  But that's not a parent loan.   We had some cash flow issues when some major repairs so it was nice to use that feature for short term.  If we did not have that option of cash built up over 18 years, then we would have encouraged her to go to State university and commute.  That state univ is really close to the private college (maybe 10 minutes of city street driving).  

I agree with the essential part of the original post in that don't assume you get full rides, and figure some of this out before your child goes there.  Use the cost estimating tools on college website.  Talk with the colleges about this.  Don't take on more debt than you can.  Talk with your students.  Go to financial aid nights at relatively local colleges.  Get on their mailing lists or call and ask.  And read through the FAQ and information on https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized

 Also, as part of PSA and hearing from recent graduate experiences:  my oldest had a small campus job for the first two years, and some other paying job (internship) in other years.  She diligently paid off the Un-Subsidized loans in full at end of each school year as she went along. And then some payments went to the subsidized.  She was only left with 16,000 in loans a month after graduation.  She has a "low monthly" payment and it is auto deducted from her checking.  Doing so, she got to have her interest rate slightly reduced.  She also rounded up a few extra dollars for each payment (example numbers.  the 10 year pay off plan said that her monthlly payment would be 162.  She allocated 175. the extra goes to principal, right?)

PSA info on college payment with my middle: her path to associates degree (which will probably be her final degree for long while) was to use Community College combined with very resourceful planning of CLEP exam credit.  She entered community college with 37 credits via CLEP exams.  She did not have to pay for those exams or the test center fee because she got vouchers from a group called modernstates dot org.  After those 9 carefully planned CLEP exams, she only had 8 classes to take at community college. Given the tuition there, we can pay that out of pocket (especially since she is not full time there.)  We were also eligible for some state grants to use during the semesters she was "half time" enrolled.  I think total cost for her degree will be about the same as the semester of our out of pocket cost for oldest.  

Lots of ways this can work out.  I list my experiences in case it helps someone else.

 

adding a PS a few hours later:  in financial aid Income is not the same word as "financial need".  For the examples I listed with my family, our income did not increase significantly from graduation of child 1 to college entry for child 2.  Yet our "financial need" decreased dramatically because tuition at community college is very small.  Thus, child 2 was not eligible for (subsidized) student loans at community college ( and we did not need other loans either).   Income did not change.  EFC was in the same ballpark.  But Financial need based on costs of specific college was not eligible for "stafford".  hope that clarifies 

 

Thanks for sharing your journey and path! With careful planning, many things are possible and people should NEVER rule out college because they don't have vast sums of money sitting around.

However in the eyes of the government, you demonstrated financial need which means that you are not a high income earner.  Period.  ONLY those with lower incomes and/or many mouths to feed and/or many students in college at the same time ever get subsidized loans.  I know someone with THREE college students at the same time and his kids couldn't get any subsidized loans.  (wisely, the one that got into Cornell as well as UCLA chose UCLA because of the 30K per year savings.)

I have many friends who were very surprised because they aren't high income, for our our area at least...and don't have disposable income or huge savings, and didn't get any subsidized loans.  When they met with financial aid officers they were told to refinance or sell their house. 

People need to realize that they will most likely be shocked by how little they will get from the government, even in terms of student loans, both subsidized and unsubsidized and they're a lot less likely to get subsidized loans than they think. 

[Farrar]

26 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

 

That is probably true.  I guess I didn't realize there was such a reduction in students going to college.  What is the cause of that?  Is it because of lower birth rates during the recession back in 2006ish?

I do know there are other states that have impacted, overcrowded campuses but that may be that those particular campuses are just so popular.  

It’s not such a reduction. But, yes, birth rates have a slight dip coming up. That’s really all. Small demographic shifts can have big impacts. Other places are overcrowded. And it’s not going to go down enough that’ll it’ll be significantly easier for people to get into competitive schools. A lot of this is that schools are adding to popular programs too. My point is more that the level of overcrowding won’t be such that most families need to consider a 5th year to get in all their courses. 

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

 

Thanks for sharing your journey and path! With careful planning, many things are possible and people should NEVER rule out college because they don't have vast sums of money sitting around.

However in the eyes of the government, you demonstrated financial need which means that you are not a high income earner.  Period.  ONLY those with lower incomes and/or many mouths to feed and/or many students in college at the same time ever get subsidized loans.  I know someone with THREE college students at the same time and his kids couldn't get any subsidized loans.  (wisely, the one that got into Cornell as well as UCLA chose UCLA because of the 30K per year savings.)

I have many friends who were very surprised because they aren't high income, for our our area at least...and don't have disposable income or huge savings, and didn't get any subsidized loans.  When they met with financial aid officers they were told to refinance or sell their house. 

People need to realize that they will most likely be shocked by how little they will get from the government, even in terms of student loans, both subsidized and unsubsidized and they're a lot less likely to get subsidized loans than they think. 

 

Part of the problem here is that people aren't getting into REAL numbers. Politesse, or whatever, prevents that much-needed discussion. Five figure need can be $10,001 with one child or $99,999. There's a BIG difference between the two.

I'm not ashamed to say that DH and I haven't made more than 70K in TAXABLE income in the last 20 years. I have no worries about paying for college between the GI Bill (that we saved for our kids) and the four years of 529 (prepaid tuition) that we also saved up. 

Unless/until folks get into specifics WRT college costs and household income, these convos will go round and round WRT what's realistic and what's not.

[8filltheheart]

11 hours ago, Calming Tea said:

 

Thanks for sharing your journey and path! With careful planning, many things are possible and people should NEVER rule out college because they don't have vast sums of money sitting around.

However in the eyes of the government, you demonstrated financial need which means that you are not a high income earner.  Period.  ONLY those with lower incomes and/or many mouths to feed and/or many students in college at the same time ever get subsidized loans.  I know someone with THREE college students at the same time and his kids couldn't get any subsidized loans.  (wisely, the one that got into Cornell as well as UCLA chose UCLA because of the 30K per year savings.)

I have many friends who were very surprised because they aren't high income, for our our area at least...and don't have disposable income or huge savings, and didn't get any subsidized loans.  When they met with financial aid officers they were told to refinance or sell their house. 

People need to realize that they will most likely be shocked by how little they will get from the government, even in terms of student loans, both subsidized and unsubsidized and they're a lot less likely to get subsidized loans than they think. 

@Calming Tea I am not sure you have a clear understanding of how FA works. It isn't as simple as saying the govt doesn't consider you high income earners if you receive partial subsidized loans. It is directly related to your EFC (expected family contribution) in comparison to institutional costs.

Let's use a fictional example, but not completely unrealistic.

Say the parental income is $150000. That $$ is not considered low income by the govt bc it puts the family roughly around the top 20% of wage earners in the country, but it is not high enough to be automatic full pay at all universities.

This family has 4 kids, 2 in college. Say FAFSA has determined their EFC to be $40,000.  (completely fictional income/EFC....just using to illustrate). Student 1 attends a school with an annual COA of $35000. That student will only receive unsubsidized loans bc their cost is below their EFC and therefore demonstrates no need. Their sibling attends a school with an annual COA of 75000. Bc the COA is above $40000, this student has demonstrated need. It is the demonstrated need that qualifies for subsidized loans. (Even if there had only been 1 student in college, if cost exceeds contribution there is need.)

Only $3500 can ever be subsidized. $5500 is the loan max for freshman, $6500 for soph, 7500 for Jr/sr.

And all of that only applies to federal student loans. Institutional aid is a completely different discussion. Institutional aid can come in the form of grants/scholarships based on the individual school's formula for need which often requires the CSS Profile. They may also offer merit scholarships not based on need. 

A couple of yrs ago quadruplets were accepted to IIRC Yale or Princeton. Their parental income was $250,000 and they had close to $1,000,000 in assets. Their EFC by school formula brought down the cost per student to $15000. So 60K/ yr for 4 kids. That is $240k total.  Families with much lower incomes but only 1 in college could end up with an EFC of 2x that. 

All that to say FA is complicated. Probably one reason most parents don't understand. But, the process can be learned by spending time reading .gov sites on FAFSA and the fine print on schools' COA/FA websites.

Edited July 22, 2019 by 8FillTheHeart

[cbollin]

11 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

 

Part of the problem here is that people aren't getting into REAL numbers. Politesse, or whatever, prevents that much-needed discussion. Five figure need can be $10,001 with one child or $99,999. There's a BIG difference between the two.

 

 

Ok, seems like a fair point as long as the dates on the information is taken into consideration for those who read this thread years down the road.  I did list a a few  "real numbers"  on some of my example, but not all.  When originally posted, I didn't have the actual 5 digit number of our EFC in front of me and was not really interested in finding paperwork from 5 years ago so I didn't say it. But you're right. that's a huge range and could be helpful to understand. My original point is saying 5 digits was that it was not 4 digit number or less.   But if it would help to flesh out my example: EFC was around 13000 ish. (based on 2 adults married in same house, only 1 household member in college (child)  2 younger children not college age.   tuition at the specific college was about 30,000 ish a year full time undergrad.  dorm cost about 9000-10000 ish.  our adjusted gross income was in 90k range ish. and another number in EFC calc is the cash on hand. I don't remember that number. sorry. It was a more than the check box number on fafsa.  and I don't remember all of that either.   But part of that EFC calculation has to do with what is your bank account balance on the day you submit FAFSA.  There is some threshold number out there.  I don't know what it is and not going to login to fafsa account to see it either.  hopefully someone who knows can share that number. 

oh, by the way. one of the things I was told about that bank balance account number (and don't know how true this is), is that if you need to pay off some bills, do that just before you file fafsa so the balance might go lower than the magic number.

as to the rest of the issue where calming tea insists that I'm "low income" by financial aid standards, 8fill nailed it with this quote: " It is directly related to your EFC (expected family contribution) in comparison to institutional costs. "   Demonstrating Financial  Need is not the same as what calming tea is saying.  8fills has the info that we experienced with amounts of loans and how it is spread with subsidized and un-sub.

 

[cbollin]

One other tip I can share is to talk directly with financial aid of specific college.  I know we lived in the same area as the college so it was not a burden to us to travel to financial aid night or meetings.  We did go to those and asked for more help too. Showing direct interest helped.  It wasn't a lot but when our admissions and financial aid sales people (I mean counselors) asked if there was anything else they could do to help with our decision, we said "are there any other school based aid that she might qualify for to offset cost of textbooks, or help swing our decision to be on campus".

doesn't hurt to ask.  and if the answer is no, then you're in same position you were.  and if answer is yes, like it was for us, great.

Another tip:  find and play around with EFC estimator tools out there and/or Cost estimators on financial aid sites of colleges.  Put in some numbers that are close to what you have. go find out this info.

also for benefit of any homeschool resident in TN like Scout:  if attending a college in TN is part of picture, check out the TN information on hope scholarship, GAMS, and TSAC sites.  There are things available that you might want to know about it.  for those who homeschool independently or through CAT IV cover school, we had to do a little extra on the GAMS. go learn about it.  It's on the TN state gov site. 

[madteaparty]

1 hour ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

 

A couple of yrs ago quadruplets were accepted to IIRC Yale or Princeton. Their parental income was $250,000 and they had close to $1,000,000 in assets. Their EFC by school formula brought down the cost per student to $15000. So 60K/ yr for 4 kids. That is $240k total.  Families with much lower incomes but only 1 in college could end up with an EFC of 2x that. 

All that to say FA is complicated. Probably one reason most parents don't understand. But, the process can be learned by spending time reading .gov sites on FAFSA and the fine print on schools' COA/FA websites.

Just out of curiosity, because to many people these threads are just that, curiosities, the parents were not required to spend down their assets to meet their contribution?

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, cbollin said:

 

Ok, seems like a fair point as long as the dates on the information is taken into consideration for those who read this thread years down the road.  I did list a a few  "real numbers"  on some of my example, but not all.  When originally posted, I didn't have the actual 5 digit number of our EFC in front of me and was not really interested in finding paperwork from 5 years ago so I didn't say it. But you're right. that's a huge range and could be helpful to understand. My original point is saying 5 digits was that it was not 4 digit number or less.   But if it would help to flesh out my example: EFC was around 13000 ish. (based on 2 adults married in same house, only 1 household member in college (child)  2 younger children not college age.   tuition at the specific college was about 30,000 ish a year full time undergrad.  dorm cost about 9000-10000 ish.  our adjusted gross income was in 90k range ish. and another number in EFC calc is the cash on hand. I don't remember that number. sorry. It was a more than the check box number on fafsa.  and I don't remember all of that either.   But part of that EFC calculation has to do with what is your bank account balance on the day you submit FAFSA.  There is some threshold number out there.  I don't know what it is and not going to login to fafsa account to see it either.  hopefully someone who knows can share that number. 

oh, by the way. one of the things I was told about that bank balance account number (and don't know how true this is), is that if you need to pay off some bills, do that just before you file fafsa so the balance might go lower than the magic number.

as to the rest of the issue where calming tea insists that I'm "low income" by financial aid standards, 8fill nailed it with this quote: " It is directly related to your EFC (expected family contribution) in comparison to institutional costs. "   Demonstrating Financial  Need is not the same as what calming tea is saying.  8fills has the info that we experienced with amounts of loans and how it is spread with subsidized and un-sub.

 

 

Thank you for this level of specificity. It does help to assess our relative position/savings/preparation. This is precisely the position we expect to be in, EFC at or near 15k/year. We are rich in experiences but not rolling in dough thanks to DHs occupation. I understand that many people are dealing with exorbitant costs but that is totally manageable for us.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Sneezyone

[...................]

Good points above.  I do understand the difference, but I am having a hard time communicating what I am trying to say without also using actual numbers.  

The point is:

Save if you can- a lot

Don't assume you will just figure it out at the last minute (or even the last year or two)

Talk turkey with your kids about what you can afford 

Do your research

[...................]

5 hours ago, madteaparty said:

Just out of curiosity, because to many people these threads are just that, curiosities, the parents were not required to spend down their assets to meet their contribution?

 

Money in the bank is considered, invested money, stocks and things like that.  Technically the fafsa doesn't ask you to report how much equity you have in your house.

Which is, in my opinion yet another strange calculation.

THE CSS profile DOES ask you to report your equity and consider that in its calculation.  Those "meets needs" schools, IMO play a little game with how they say "we meet all financial need..." etc. 

[madteaparty]

44 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

 

Money in the bank is considered, invested money, stocks and things like that.  Technically the fafsa doesn't ask you to report how much equity you have in your house.

Which is, in my opinion yet another strange calculation.

THE CSS profile DOES ask you to report your equity and consider that in its calculation.  Those "meets needs" schools, IMO play a little game with how they say "we meet all financial need..." etc. 

So, “asset” in the quadruplet example above was al equity of only home then? 

[8filltheheart]

3 hours ago, madteaparty said:

So, “asset” in the quadruplet example above was al equity of only home then? 

I don't remember exactly. I think it was home equity and 401k. Some schools do calculate home equity in their calculations and add a certain percentage into the parental equation. Some don't. Wherever they attend, doesn't. Retirement investments are not calculated in, but retirement contributions are. They expect you to stop contributing to retirement plans and fund college. (For us that would mean no contributions from 2007 to 2032. )