Need thoughts on daughter's college roommate situation

[AprilTN]

DD is a sophomore in college.  She had a roommate last year in a dorm and got along ok with her.  They weren't besties but they got along and cooperated for the most part.  

DD is living off campus in apartments that are for students.  She has a room and bathroom that she can lock (much like a dorm) and her roommate has her own bed/bath, and they share a kitchen, den, and laundry.  

My dd did a roommate match with the apartment company and they matched her with a roommate that had already moved in.  The roommate moved there knowing that she would have a roommate eventually but didn't have one for several months.

On move-in day, the roommate (I will call her B) wasn't there the entire day and upon our arrival we discovered that B had not made space for dd in the kitchen or laundry room, and had decorated the shared spaces already.  She had items on the balcony that had obviously been there for a long time.  She has an abandoned eno that is tied diagonally across the balcony (against the rules) and a rusty dog crate (no pets allowed) and you can open the door but you can't walk out onto the balcony.  

We understood that she had lived there alone for a while, and that was just a temporary thing that was probably really nice for her to have.  However, the apartment is for two tenants and has two separate leases.  

At 10pm  B still had not come home to introduce herself and my dd texted her to see if she was coming home because B needed to make cabinet space for dd.  B did not want to make space, she initially responded to texts but when dd asked her about cabinet space she quit responding.  She came home around 11pm and told my dd that she already had all the cabinet space except for one shelf of one upper cabinet. (this is a full size kitchen).  She refused to move her stuff until I stepped in and explained that the cabinets would be divided evenly (they are symmetrical so it was super easy to divide.)  She reluctantly did it, and still has not found a place for things that would not fit into her cabinets.  They are piled on her side of the counter.

B is dirty, messy, and leaves her dirty dishes in the sink every.single.day., leaving them for days at a time.  She cooks and leaves the pans on the stove with dried food, sometimes covering all four burners so if my dd wants to cook she has to find a place for B's pots and pans, which is not easy since her side of the counter is overflowing.  She does laundry and leaves her clothes all over the laundry room for days.  

I could really go on and on but you get the idea.

She avoids my dd and barely speaks to her, and dd has to initiate every conversation and it's as if the girl enjoys the "power" that she has over my dd.  If my dd tries to initiate a conversation about any issue, B just tells her no and won't cooperate.

The way that B has decorated is not even close to my dd's style.  And dd understands that when B lived there before having a roommate, she didn't have to collab with anyone on the decor.  But the decor is bold (red, black and tan with lots of wine bottle style decor) and she has all the space decorated, the entry, the laundry, the kitchen,and the den.  

DD approached B about making the common space a place that feels like home for both of them. (btw my dd is a graphic design student and so design and aesthetic are very important to her, although that is beside the point, but I still wanted to say that lol)  DD offered to purchase a larger and more neutral rug for the den (the one in there is small and is red, black, and tan and has large black swirls and red circles and doesn't really match anything except itself).  She told B that if B wanted to show her some neutral rugs that she liked, that they could pick out one together and dd would pay for it.  Also, she asked B if B would make room on the wall for dd's decor and maybe they could try to figure out which things coordinated and use that.  So in the end, it would be a larger neutral rug (like an 8x10 instead of a 4x5) and dd would pay for it.  Also the curtains are red and dd offered to pay for something more neutral that would blend it with both of their decor choices.  

B refused, and the only "concession" she made was to let dd add some things to the wall but not take any of B's stuff down (which is going to be strange because she has stuff on every wall).  B told my dd that B had already bought things and that she wasn't moving them. 

Yep.

Yes, dd has tried to talk to her, she has also talked to the managers of the apartment twice about this roommate.

So I spoke with them yesterday to get an idea of what dd's options are for this situation.  They said that the roommate was in the wrong but they don't really get involved.  They offered to mediate to help them find their own solution, but I am not sure that is a good idea.  My dd gets very tongue-tied (she has mild dyslexia and it affects her speech when she is anxious or stressed, so I'm afraid she will walk away without having much in her favor).  Maybe she should try it...

This place is 100% full occupancy so right now moving to another apartment on the property isn't an option.  They allow subleasing for a fee but there aren't any good options near campus right now.

Dd was in a puddle of tears last night from frustration and disappointment.  She is so sad that she is basically stuck living with this girl that is not going to be friendly or cooperative or considerate.

I would appreciate your thoughts. 

My personal opinion is that dd is paying the same rent and has the same rights as her roommate.  And that they should find a way to mix their decor and work together to make it a place where they both feel at home.  It is also not my dd's fault that the girl lived there alone, because if they had moved in on the same day, dd would have insisted that they cooperate on the common areas.  Also, it is not dd's problem that the roommate purchased something like a rug that would please a very limited audience.  The real problem is that dd doesn't know how to carry out any plans to make the space agreeable to both of them when the roommate has everything like she wants and doesn't care about anyone else.

Thanks for reading all of this!!!

 

 

 

[gardenmom5]

I feel I'm being petty, and might  even make things worse -  but I would start with a large  (or two) rubbermaid containers/boxes. dirty dishes or pots can go in it so when your dd needs to come cook they can be put aside out of her way.   it would also put all the stuff on the counter into a box.   if it's garbage - throw it out.  if it's blocking - move it.  put it in the box with her dirty pots and pans.  she should be able to use the balcony.  I would "tell her".

the other girl sounds like she has some real problems interacting with people and would rather avoid than deal.

or your dd can try the 'excruciatingly nice' route and soak all her junk in the sink, then clean it up. (just stack it on her side of the kitchen.)  don't bother saving leftovers,  if she wanted them, she should have put them away at the time.  I wonder if she even knows how to clean up after herself?

dd had the roommate from h3ll her sophomore year.   the girl would come in about 10pm, and turn on every single light.  then she'd play her music until the wee hours.  asking her to use headphones at midnight was unreasonable.  and she'd invite her boyfriend over so they could have s3x.   didn't care if anyone else was in the room.  My dd would get physical ill being up late as a child.  she physically couldn't do it - so that took its toll.   she was having to use a sleep mask and earplugs in her own dorm room.  or stay with friends.  she was able to move out 2nd semester when a single opened up.  in her case too - the RA didn't want to get involved and basically told dd to deal with it.

 

- I'd consider the same tack with walls in the living room.   pick two walls, and take down all of "b's" stuff, and put up her own..  your dd is paying rent, and has just as much right as b to the space.

Edited September 6, 2018 by gardenmom5

[mumto2]

Hugs to you and your dd.  I had a dreadful roommate freshman year and wasn’t allowed to move even after being sick with mono and returning with doctor’s instructions for rest which was hard with that roommate. So a few rambling thoughts.....

I like the idea of boxes for her dirty pots and pans if there isn’t room on her counter......my only fear is an infestation of bugs.  The kitchen I would divide in half and keep it that way.  

She needs to remember she has to sleep in that apartment so she could escalate things to a totally intolerable level regarding noise and more people she dislikes,  i would be careful about being too confrontational.  I would probably hang a bunch of her own artwork if I was her since she has been given wall space and ignore the rest for now.  She could take it as a challenge to make the red work.

 My room had a revolving door, 24 hours and we shared the room, back in the dark ages!  I would open my eyes to some really shocking things in the middle of the night.  One of her boyfriends fell out of her loft bed without anything on, that was actually a favorite moment of that year,  I really disliked him and he stopped sleeping in our room!  I guess it hurt!  awww  

Your Daughter  is so lucky to have her own bedroom and bathroom with a key and needs to remember that.  She also needs to apply to move.........take photos when the kitchen is trashed, balcony blocked etc. so she can prove that her living conditions are poor if the opportunity arises.  No one cared that I was miserable because my roommate was seen as fun and nice by everyone.  I was considered lucky???????

[SereneHome]

While I understand that decor is important to your DD, I would concentrate on more practical things - kitchen and laundry.

I would start taking daily pics  of the mess.  I love the idea of two large boxes for dirty dishes and I would put one in the laundry and keep putting B's crap in there.

I would also contact management in writing (and add a few pics) and advise them of potential health hazard  - leaving food can lead to all sorts of "friendly" visitors - do they REALLY want to be dealing with ant / fruit flies / mice / cockroaches infestation?

And I would stop trying to have any conversations with B.  At all!!!  I would remove her dirty stuff from common places, I would stop worrying about decorations and I would resign myself to spending the next year in my locked room. 

And bc I don't trust people and probably too paranoid at times, I might get a small fridge for my room to keep my food there, if possible.

This roommate sounds like a bully and trying to "play nice" with bullies never works.

 

[unsinkable]

45 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

Ask the apt manager if they do safety or fire checks.  They can push the flatmate to clean up.  Your dd hopefully has photos from move-in to show who to bill when pest control is necessary.

My dc would say just accept that this person has EF issues and don't waste your energy.  The person will never be able to clean up before  having to leave for class or work.  Move their stuff to the side when the space is needed. Invite friends over....they'll speak up, along the wtf? lines to the pig.  Maybe that will help, maybe not.  Take the trash out daily, no matter who produces it - you don't want those issues. Vacuum and clean common areas as frequently as it needs...don't even bother negotiating.   If they use your clean pots/pans, remove them to your room. Be very happy flatmate does laundry. Some don't and they don't shower much either. Don't expect random roommates to be friendly...some of them are struggling to successfully manage school and apt, and adding in flatmate relations is too much. 

I understand about living with the not talking flatmate. Its a lot easier if treated as the person in the dorm room next door, whom you see sometimes in the common area.  Keep socializing with existing friend group and enlarge it.  

"the pig" !?!?

That attitude and name-calling is not beneficial to finding a solution.

The room mate has serious issues but she is still a person.

[unsinkable]

5 minutes ago, HeighHo said:

 

Do you have a solution to suggest?  Or are you just going to advocate that the new roommate kowtows and accepts slob/pig/whatever you wanna call it that fits your def of PCish? 

 

Yeah, my advice is don't call people names when you are trying to find a way to co-exist peacefully and share a space equitably.

 

[readinmom]

I think that the documentation is an excellent idea.  If your dd can take daily pics with her phone, keep a log of dates, etc., maybe this will speed up her ability to move out of this apartment.  It is a health hazard.  Also, I don't think this roommate has any concern over your daughter's feelings at all.  Mediation is an option, but if the roommate has the attitude she has portrayed, it won't be successful. Document, complain, push for possible transfer of roommates.  

Hugs to your dd.  It is miserable to be stuck like this.  

[Wheres Toto]

I like the idea for a bin to put dirty dishes in to get them out of her way when she needs to use the stove.  Maybe something similar in the laundry room where roommates stuff could be put when dd needs to use the washer/dryer.   If the roommate starts using her dishes, keep them in the room.   She will probably also need to make sure she's around whenever she is doing laundry so she can keep an eye on things and get it back into her room as soon as possible. 

I think mediation is a good idea, especially with pictures.  Dd definitely wants to take steps to make sure she won't be responsible for damage when they move out.  

Other than that though, I think she might just need to resign herself to spending most of her time in her bedroom.  I hope it's not super small.

[EmseB]

4 hours ago, SereneHome said:

While I understand that decor is important to your DD, I would concentrate on more practical things - kitchen and laundry.

I would start taking daily pics  of the mess.  I love the idea of two large boxes for dirty dishes and I would put one in the laundry and keep putting B's crap in there.

I would also contact management in writing (and add a few pics) and advise them of potential health hazard  - leaving food can lead to all sorts of "friendly" visitors - do they REALLY want to be dealing with ant / fruit flies / mice / cockroaches infestation?

And I would stop trying to have any conversations with B.  At all!!!  I would remove her dirty stuff from common places, I would stop worrying about decorations and I would resign myself to spending the next year in my locked room. 

And bc I don't trust people and probably too paranoid at times, I might get a small fridge for my room to keep my food there, if possible.

This roommate sounds like a bully and trying to "play nice" with bullies never works.

 

This is my vote.

Pictures, pictures, pictures. If she does get some rubbermaid tubs for putting dirty dishes and laundry in, take a photo before moving the items, take a photo of the items in the bin, and then take a photo of the clean stove/sink after your dd finishes using the kitchen, or the empty washer/dryer/laundry room after doing laundry. I would seriously be that detailed about it in case B decided to get angry or try to claim your DD was stealing her stuff or ruining it. This would necessitate probably a lot of photos taken every day. Or videos. I would also keep as much of my own belongings in my own room to avoid whatever someone else could or might do to my own stuff.

If at some point she does have to get out of her lease early then she needs documentation and a log of speaking to the apartment managers and their refusal to do anything about the issue. Email might be best, actually, for communication because it's dated and there's confirmation of their response or lack thereof.

Also, at some point, maybe after she moves out, I would leave a review with said photos about the hazards of living in that complex with a management team that will not help you with a problem roommate.

I would not make an issue out of the rug or decor. I just wouldn't. If she tries mediation, I'd simply go directly to the tangible problems with sanitation and health issues of leaving food out.

I'm sorry. It sounds so horrible.

 

 

[J-rap]

I'm sorry, that sounds like a horrible situation!  I would take the managers up on their offer to help mediate.  Have your dd take good notes and take pictures, and then get management involved.  If it were a nice girl with messy habits, that's one thing.  This sounds like a whole different situation and I'd rather my dd not have to deal with it alone.

[RootAnn]

I would guess that established roommate has no incentive to change or be nice because if she makes life horrible for the new roommate, she might get to go back to having the place to herself. I assume she didn't have to pay extra to live alone so if she can chase away your DD, she can again have a double for the price of a single. 

(I had a roommate in college like this. She had "earned" (her phrase) her own room three years in a row this way.)

[kiwik]

I would do the box thing for the kitchen and laundry, spend most of my time in my bedroom and be grateful I don't have to share a bathroom.  I would try mediation after a month or so.

[EKS]

In addition to dealing with the situation in the short term--and it looks like you've gotten lots of ideas about that already--I'd urge your daughter to identify one or more friends that she would like to room with next year and then do whatever it takes to get an apartment with them.

[Bootsie]

I would encourage your daughter to focus on basic cleanliness, shared storage space, and access to the laundry  It sounds as if your daughter is disappointed that she is not getting to decorate the apartment in your taste and style.  I agree that it would be considerate of the roommate to approach the space that way, but it sounds at this point as if she probably is not too receptive to that.  This isn't an ideal situation, and not the situation your daughter was wanting, but I would focus on having her decorate her private room the way she wants it to be.  It does sound that the roommate has a lot more stuff and has spent a lot more time decorating the space than the average college student does.  I don't know too many college students who cook using four different pots at at a time (or who even have four different pots to leave on all of the burners).l

I think it would be a good idea to go through the apartment's mediation process.  It is difficult to complain that the apartment complex will not do anything if she doesn't go through the process that they have.

[Tree Frog]

My dd is in a very similar situation. It's a 4 bedroom/4 bath 3 story apt. Each girl has her own bath and a lock on the bedroom door. Roomie 1 moved in a week early. Somehow, she had a box on the top landing that combusted (that's the description the general manager gave when dd moved in), causing the fire alarm to go off and the sprinklers to rain down water. The apt manager was able to get most of the damage repaired before the other 3 girls moved in.  Roomie 1 has left stuff in the common areas, bins in the middle of the kitchen, stuff on the landing. She and dd share the 3rd floor, which is also where the washer/dryer are. Roomie routinely leaves her laundry in the washer and expects other roomies to stick it in the dryer for her. She was upset when the other girls just took the laundry out of the washer and put it in a bin. This past weekend, she put a load into the washer and left town. DD has come home to a litterbox and cat food in the kitchen (only one pet is allowed per apt and a different roommate already had a dog. Besides, who wants a litterbox in the kitchen?!) When they knocked on roomie's door to ask her about it, dd said there were 2 adult cats and 2-3 kittens trying to get out. Mgmt said there aren't supposed to be cats in that apt. The cats come and go and aren't there consistently. Roomie and friend smoked and stunk up the entire apt. When asked, roomie said she and friend were trying to smoke out the window, but it didn't work. Smoking in the apts isn't allowed and sets off dd's migraines. This week, roomie brought more stuff into the apartment, but didn't take it to her personal space. It's more junk left in the common areas or at the top of the stairs where dd has to move around it to get to her room. Roomie also said because she moved in first, her stuff in the kitchen should stay. All 4 roommates sat down shortly after everyone arrived and decided who had which shelves; yesterday, roomie said only the other 3 agreed and took dd's dishes out of the cabinet to put in more of her own dishes from home. She also brought 2 reptile aquariums back with her this week. They're currently sitting in the living area. Roomie says she's trying to sell them, so they will stay where they are.

This isn't a good situation for only 3 weeks into school. DD has looked at the lease to see what constitutes getting kicked out of the apartment. She says the only clear statement  is causing physical damage. Roomie caused this damage even before anyone else moved in! Roomie is a known issue; she lived in the same complex last year. When dd checked in, it was the general manager who came to talk to her, specifically because of roomie. DH and I had to co-sign on her lease, so we could get involved. However, dd advocates for herself very well and has asked us not to step in yet. We have suggested arbitration, but she and her roommates are trying to give roomie the benefit of the doubt. (We disagree with doing this and think it's only pushing the inevitable off to a later time.) We have also told dd to document EVERYTHING, including texts, emails (email the mgmt first to let them know what's going on, then document what was said when they went to the office to personally talk to the manager), conversations, etc. We've told her to take pictures to correspond with the documents. I don't know if it will be necessary, but I can't see this situation getting better.

OP, I wish your dd luck. My dd has 2 other roommates she gets along with who support dd. Yours doesn't have that extra support. I think documenting everything she can, knowing her lease backwards and forwards so she can point out if/when her roommate is violating it, and being consistent will be her best friends. She has a hard line to walk between asserting her rights and not causing possible danger to herself and her property. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by wilrunner
I hadn't finished the post.

[SKL]

Honestly, I would let the decor go and focus on the slobbiness.  And make sure she gets a new roommate next year.

I am surprised the landlords don't care about filth in their apartment building.  That could bring uninvited guests which could cause a lot of problems for them.  I think I would approach it from that angle and in the meantime, keep stuffing her dirty junk onto her side.

Another thought - is there anything the roommate does well, that could be bartered for?  For example, what if your daughter washed up roommate's dishes in exchange for buying the groceries or bringing up the mail or something?  If not, is there any chance of offering to clean for $$?

I wonder if there is any use asking this roommate why they started off on the wrong foot.  Maybe your daughter made an unintentional faux pas and the roommate is mad because she never apologized.  Are they from different cultures?  I made a lot of mistakes with people from other cultures when I was naive about that.  Once we sat down and talked it out, it was clear nobody meant any harm and we became friends.

[SKL]

Thinking more, I think our advice is to some extent dependent on the roommate's culture.  I used to have many friends who were brought up with servants and had no idea how to clean.  They may have been taught cooking but not cleaning.  They may have no idea that you wash dishes after you use them, not before the next use.  They may not understand how to get stuff clean.  They may be overwhelmed once they finally realize nobody is ever going to come and clean up for them.  I could go on and on at the shocking things I saw - shocking to me because I was brought up knowing how to clean.

A possible solution would be for the roommate to hire someone on a one-time basis to clean everything on her side.  If she is unwilling, maybe the management could encourage this by giving her an ultimatum:  e.g., you get it done, or we are doing it and charging you $50 per hour.

[Katy]

I was in a similar situation in college.  So was DH.  For both of us the only solution was to move. Sorry, but your DD needs to hide in her own locked bedroom until she can move out.  Confronting a controlling, manipulative, abusive person isn't going to change the abusive jerk.  Stooping to her level will only make DD miserable.  The best thing to do is document, document, document and complain about the unsafe, disgusting, bug-infested situation until the real estate rental company thinks it's easier to release DD from the lease than it is to deal with this awful roommate any more.

 

[GoodGrief]

I agree with those that said to forget the decor (the year will fly by and you've just got to take it down at that point anyway), and avoid confrontations with the roommate. I'd keep my stuff in my locked room as much as it is practically possible, and I like the idea of a small refrigerator in the room. I'd come out to cook and do laundry, and move whatever I had to move to accomplish that task.
In the meantime, I'd take pictures and keep communicating with apartment management (in a friendly way that makes them want to be helpful) about the possibility of changing apartments if an opportunity arises.

[Scarlett]

There is a reason this roommate had no roommate for several months.  I would just keep complaining and get out as soon as possible. 

Decorating is the least of the worries.  I would not tolerate dirty living conditions.  No way.