Kids acting as if parents should be "available" 24/7........

[Joanne]

Since I've started going out regularly with my DH a couple of nights a week, a dynamic with my kids has been made apparent.

 

They think I should be/am available and accessible 24/7 to them.

 

I think it's multi-caused:

 

1) An xh (their Dad) who did not value my need to have kid free time. He also insisted on immediate phone access to me, used that access often and expected me to drop whatever I was doing to listen to him. Drop everything; including a daycare of 6+ preschoolers.

 

2) Cell phones.

 

3) A lack of experiential understanding that I spend more time with my kids than more than 95% of families of school aged children.

 

4) A lack of absolute boundaries and clear instructions. Partly inspired by fear of the xh.

 

I remember when I was a babysitter. This would have been late '70's early '80's. The parents might, if they were so inclined, tell me what movie, restaurant or home they were going to. Often, they simply said "Bye, we'll be home by midnight" and were off. :rolleyes:

 

Here comes my hopefully needless justification:

 

My kids are old enough to handle being home if we go out. They are informed, trained, we have a written and explained contract on appropriate behavior and how the house should be handled.

 

I spent the first 10 years of parenting without appropriate breaks, without real nurture of self or marriage.

 

I am with my kids, except every other weekend and poker nights 24/7 unless it is a child centered activity such as youth group, YMCA classes (and even there, I am in the building), skatepark, parties they attend.

 

It's been building; I have felt resentful and smothered and under appreciated that I can't *go* without a call about some form of tattling, a stupid question, "I just called to see how you were doing".

 

So..........

 

The first question is general: Do you perceive a change in what you consider to be the acceptable and expected level of accessibility?

 

The second is more specific: Do you have similar feelings and experiences with your kids. Assuming you want time away and "space" and "breathing room", how have you made that happen?

[Amy loves Bud]

Well, I like to shower alone. They know that unless someone is bleeding or unconscious not to interrupt my shower :rolleyes:. Beyond that, I wish I could help you, but I got nothin'.

[Rhondabee]

but, in your family, *you* have changed the expectations of how much mom is available. Your kids might just need some more time to adjust.

 

Maybe (due to the fear of xh you mentioned), they are testing you. "Will she *really* answer if I call and I *really* need her?" So, take those calls graciously and with a quick, "I'm fine! Everything all right there? OK, Love ya, Bye!"

 

And, my boys are now 13 and 10 (and dd is 2). I can see that they are struggling with wanting to be grown-up, and yet, not wanting to mess up. Maybe your oldest two are going through some of those same things. It's a hard age.

 

Don't think you have to change anything. Once they see this is the new reality, they'll adjust. Just hold their hands through these changes, and trust that if there is a real problem that is occuring in your absence, you mom-sense will find it out and deal with it.

[Scarlett]

I mainly feel it when I am trying to concentrate on something (like taxes or an important post on WTM boards:)) and ds7 is tugging tugging tugging on me (literally). I guess this is pay back because I was/am this exact same way to my mom. On a good day, I calmly say, 'ds, I have to be able to concentrate on this, I cannot give you any attention right now.' Bad days, 'I say, 'go away! I'm trying to think!'

 

My ds was so long coming, is so much a joy to me and I'm so sad that I only got one child that I often find myself ignoring the little part of me that needs 'alone' time.

 

But yeah...I think we can easily justify some seperation. Especially the ages of yours Joanne.

[chiguirre]

Well, I'm where you were several years ago. I don't get much time alone, my kids are high maintenance and it's hard to find someone to stay with them. My mother and mil can't handle babysitting them, so I really mean it when I say it's hard. I can totally relate to your desperate need to get away. But your oldest is only 12. That's old enough to stay home alone once in a while, but several nights a week might be too much right now. Could you cut back to one night a week out with dh for the next few months? Once that's totally okay with the kids, you could up it to twice.

 

To put this in another light, my parents didn't let me stay alone until I was 12 and even then it was for an hour or two max every few months. I didn't stay with my sister until she was 12 as well. I did babysit other people's kids by the time I was 14, so it did ramp up fairly quickly but it started out slow.

 

On the bright side, your kids will get up to speed on this in a year or two. Lots of moms will never be able to leave their special needs kids alone. Hang in there a bit longer!

[Mama Lynx]

... my kids do call me when I'm out without them. It's never bothered me. It's never occurred to me that this might be a problem with them not knowing how to cope out of contact with Mom and Dad. I'll have to think about that.

 

DH and I talk to each other frequently throughout the day, and I hate being unable to reach him. If I know in advance that he'll be out of pocket (a meeting, travelling, whatever) then I'm fine, no problem. But if I don't know and just can't get hold of him, I may well end up a basket case.

 

My kids call for silly things, like "Can I have computer time?" But that's because they really have not figured out that if Mom is not there, they can have computer time and no one would ever know. Since I'm not about to explain that to them, I love that they call for that. And often, *I* will call *them*, to make sure all is well - but I think my kids are a bit younger than yours, Joanne.

 

When I am home and on the computer, the phone, or in the bathroom, or otherwise trying to do my work and take my own space, *then* their inability/refusal to leave me alone leads to me feeling irritated, angry and resentful.

[jmgconner]

Oh, I hear ya loud and clear! My DS, now 12, whom we left with Grandma, would call every. single. time. DH and I went out on a date. "Mom, I can't find my retainer." "Mom, can I watch so and so?" "Mom, my ballooned popped."

 

Just sitting down with him and explaining that just because he can reach my by phone does not mean he should. We went over good reasons to call, and silly reasons to call. I tried to explain to him that this was special Mommy time and that I would be a much happier Mom if he wasn't interrupting my Mommy time... LOL! It seemed to work, although I still have to remind him every once in a while.

 

I also think RhondaBee might be on to something - testing to make sure that you're really there. :)

[Joanne]

But your oldest is only 12. That's old enough to stay home alone once in a while, but several nights a week might be too much right now. Could you cut back to one night a week out with dh for the next few months? Once that's totally okay with the kids, you could up it to twice.

 

 

Look, not to be nitpicky and defensive, but I'm going to be nitpicky and defensive anyway.

 

My oldest will be 13 in 7 weeks. I think that 13, 11 and 9 are plenty old enough to be away from me, unsupervised, more than once a week. After a day of being next to, near, hugging on, learning with and from, cuddled, chauffered, watered and fed.

 

Considering there are families who start leaving their double digit-ed kids alone after school five days a week to avoid daycare costs, that most kids are away from parents at least 8 - 4.

 

When I look at my color coded schedule including nightime activities for 3 kids, we handle - personally - 2-4 practices a week, chauffering to youth group and other activities. There is very little white space on my calendar. Nights we are home are filled with games together or intentional tv/entertainment and eating meals together. Indeed, even on the nights we go out, we cook and eat together. My DH is coaching my youngest's baseball team (and coached my oldest's in the fall). He's at practice now with my oldest while I am here with the younger 2.

 

Waiting until it's ok with them would not be a good choice in this home. It would be moving backwards in many ways.

[chiguirre]

If you don't want to cut back on nights out, I'd silence my cell phone. Teach them to text message in case of an emergency.

 

Good luck!

[WTMCassandra]

One of my friends struggles with this. And from what I saw in her home, I made some adjustments over the last few years.

 

I really try to balance this and not use it too much, but sometimes I'll say: "My ears are full now." or "No, go ask your Dad, I'm off-duty now." or "This is not a good time." My children also know that during morning recess (15-30 minutes), they should not bug me unless there is blood. It's *my* recess too.

 

I think part of it is slow training to see that I'm a person, that I have needs too. It's good for them to know that and helps them be less self-focused.

 

If I were you, I would start "being unavailable" at home for brief periods. Perhaps this would be a good training ground for when you go out. If I were you and fielding lots of cell calls, I might make two lists: (1) Appropriate reasons to call Mom and (2) Inappropriate reasons to call Mom. I would go over it with them, and if they call for an inappropriate reason, I would say nicely but firmly, "Sorry, that's not an appropriate reason to call. I'll see you at xxxx when I get home." And if they still kept doing it I might fine them to help pay for my cell minutes ; ).

 

Another option, or an additional option, is to plan their time before you go out. Go over with each child briefly what they should be doing while you are gone. (Perhaps they are bored and don't know what to do?)

 

Hope this helps a little.

[Scarlett]

I thought your question was more about 'is this an unreasonable request of mine' (getting away without your children having to call you and tattle on each other or check up on you) more than are your kids old enough to be left alone...Anyway, at the ages of your kids, I say go out and enjoy yourself. They will be fine without hearing your voice for several hours.

[Rhondabee]

Look, not to be nitpicky and defensive, but I'm going to be nitpicky and defensive anyway.

 

My oldest will be 13 in 7 weeks. I think that 13, 11 and 9 are plenty old enough to be away from me, unsupervised, more than once a week. After a day of being next to, near, hugging on, learning with and from, cuddled, chauffered, watered and fed.

 

Considering there are families who start leaving their double digit-ed kids alone after school five days a week to avoid daycare costs, that most kids are away from parents at least 8 - 4.

 

When I look at my color coded schedule including nightime activities for 3 kids, we handle - personally - 2-4 practices a week, chauffering to youth group and other activities. There is very little white space on my calendar. Nights we are home are filled with games together or intentional tv/entertainment and eating meals together. Indeed, even on the nights we go out, we cook and eat together. My DH is coaching my youngest's baseball team (and coached my oldest's in the fall). He's at practice now with my oldest while I am here with the younger 2.

 

Waiting until it's ok with them would not be a good choice in this home. It would be moving backwards in many ways.

 

 

One reason why I didn't list how I handled "time out with dh" is that we rarely go out. BUT, we only have two nights scheduled (well, 3 including Sunday). On Tues and Thurs dh takes sons to Akido and I usually stay home with dd, or run a small errand. (That's my I'm-the-only-introvert-here-so-leave-me-alone-and-let-me-veg time.)

 

All other nights are "Down Time". Not filled with games together or intentional TV (though we do eat together). But, just hang out and be relaxed and everybody does his/her or "his and her" own thing time. So, I don't feel any sort of need to have "date nights" (but then, we no longer qualify as newly-weds, either - LOL!).

 

Every family is so very different. And, as I said above, I certainly don't think you need to change your going out. It's certainly acceptable for you to keep the scheduled family times as you have them. But, I wonder if you cut back and had some more "do nothing" time at home if that would lessen your feelings of being restricted and frustrated with a lack of personal time.

 

(gently) It just really doesn't matter what everybody else does with their kids. Your kids are obviously important to you, but something's gotta give somewhere. One thing that bothers me is that something is making you really sound not quite yourself. I can't think of a time when I've really disagreed with your parenting tone....I'm not saying I'm disagreeing with what you're saying, just that in this thread, something seems different.

[Joanne]

But, I wonder if you cut back and had some more "do nothing" time at home if that would lessen your feelings of being restricted and frustrated with a lack of personal time.

 

I hear you. It's seasonal. Baseball season in the fall is about 2 months including the pre-game practice time. Baseball season in the Spring is more intense; about 3 months. We get more "do nothing" time in between baseball seasons.

 

Our favorite do nothing time is usually spent in paralell, co existing activities.

 

(gently) It just really doesn't matter what everybody else does with their kids. Your kids are obviously important to you, but something's gotta give somewhere. One thing that bothers me is that something is making you really sound not quite yourself. I can't think of a time when I've really disagreed with your parenting tone....I'm not saying I'm disagreeing with what you're saying, just that in this thread, something seems different.

 

It's the intensity of my feelings combined with the topic. It's rare that I would argue for less connection. ;) This particular topic started to become an issue for me a couple of years ago on my 40th birthday. It was the end of my marriage; my sisters had come in for my 40th. I made plans for going out with them - alone - and my dd had a meltdown. This, after plenty of Aunt/Mom time, after doing things together. She had not awareness of or respect for my right to have sister (they live far away) time. My xh, who was still here at the time (it was out last month together) didn't back me up at all.

 

Since then, I've seen signs of my children not seeing me as a person beyond mom/teacher and certainly not having needs/rights separate from them.

 

It's vestiges of being drained and the results of not having had appropriate, healthy boundaries.

 

(Note: I do not mean to suggest or imply that my attachment style of parenting is to blame. My issues are not caused by AP but by dysfunction).

[JennifersLost]

something like this comes up - a situation where I feel that what I'm asking is reasonable but I feel guilty for enforcing it, I ask myself, "What precedent am I setting?"

 

See, I figure my kids are probably going to fall into doing things "my way" when they have kids of their own. In other words, they will celebrate Christmas like I do - spending a ton and going into debt if that's what I do, or spending a reasonable amount and not going into debt if that's what I do. So at Christmas time when their piles of gifts seem "too small" I picture them twenty years from now on Christmas eve getting things ready for their kids and I feel much better. I don't want them to feel compelled to go into debt every Christmas to re-create the Christmases they had as kids.

 

The same goes for nights out away from them. Twenty years from now do you want your children ridden with guilt every time they leave their kids at home? Or do you want them to know that getting a break is quite all right?

 

I have a feeling it will be the latter. Having said that, now you have to be consistent. Sit the kids down beforehand, tell them your expectations: "I expect you to call if someone gets hurt. I don't expect you to call just to check in. That makes me feel....." (Fill in the blank).

 

My parents hardly ever got to go out because we four kids I guess acted up when they were gone. The boys got in trouble, my sister got stomach-aches, etc. I think my parents' marriage and social lives really suffered from this.

 

These days my oldest baby-sits the rest when we go out. I have one child who is a potential trouble-maker during that kind of thing, so we let him know loud and clear that if there was trouble, life was going to get fairly miserable for him. He did act out once and the next day dh kept him by his side, washing walls, scrubbing tubs and missing a sunny day to be inside working. That was the last time we had any problems, LOL.

 

While we're gone we set up the youngest with appropriate movies to watch and the others have computer time. That pretty much keeps them busy, anyway.

 

HTH!

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

My oldest will be 13 in 7 weeks. I think that 13, 11 and 9 are plenty old enough to be away from me, unsupervised, more than once a week. After a day of being next to, near, hugging on, learning with and from, cuddled, chauffered, watered and fed.

 

Considering there are families who start leaving their double digit-ed kids alone after school five days a week to avoid daycare costs, that most kids are away from parents at least 8 - 4.

 

Waiting until it's ok with them would not be a good choice in this home. It would be moving backwards in many ways.

 

I think it's old enough, too, but I guess the bigger question is, are THEY ready to be left alone, unsupervised, more than once a week? If they are reacting this way, they may be telling you loud and clear that they do not FEEL ready. Just like the 4 y/o who is "old enough" to use markers properly, but is clearly NOT old enough because she keeps writing on the walls or leaving the tops off for them to dry up. She may need 1) to get older and more responsible and/or 2) more training and gentle, consistent enforcement of rules.

 

Is there something you can do, training-wise, to empower them to be not only chronologically ready but to feel secure and strong and truly emotionally ready?

 

I just want you to know that in saying this I do hear you and I do empathize with you. Sometimes all that togetherness gets almost physical, and you just want to scream STOP TOUCHING ME! Even if nobody is. I think it's the reason some women simply cannot breastfeed. The feeling of the walls closing in and everyone touching them and wanting a piece of them All. The. Time is just overwhelming and crazy-making.

[gardenschooler]

My oldest will be 13 in 7 weeks. I think that 13, 11 and 9 are plenty old enough to be away from me, unsupervised, more than once a week. After a day of being next to, near, hugging on, learning with and from, cuddled, chauffered, watered and fed.

 

Mine were close to these ages when I finally started going out without them. Actually, they were 13, 11, and 7. We had never had money for a regular babysitter for me to be able to go out without them before. We did it, but it was very rare (a few times a year). I was a 24/7 mom - not balanced with any time of my own out of the house, so my kids were just not used to that. Dh works long hours, even on the weekends, so they weren't even used to having another 'go to' parent much of the time. When they did spend time with dh, I collapsed in exhaustion, usually, instead of going out. I know they never imagined I was a real person who might have a reason to socialize without them.

 

When my oldest had shown that she could stay by herself for short spurts of time around age 12, we gradually moved towards letting the three of them stay at home alone, with the oldest in charge. I figured someone had to be in charge, otherwise it would be a free-for-all. This just created more problems with fighting and tattling, though, so I quickly changed that.

 

At first, I got all sorts of tattling phone calls and silly questions. I think it really may be a sense of feeling you out and getting used to being on their own. After a little while, though, I came down pretty hard on the pestering phone calls. I felt pretty resentful about it, too.

 

I pretty much told them in no uncertain terms that if it didn't stop, I was going to call them non-stop the next time they were out with their friends! Probably a little harsh for your tastes, but it worked. Now I worry because they hardly ever call me when I'm out!

[Joanne]

When my oldest had shown that she could stay by herself for short spurts of time around age 12, we gradually moved towards letting the three of them stay at home alone, with the oldest in charge. I figured someone had to be in charge, otherwise it would be a free-for-all. This just created more problems with fighting and tattling, though, so I quickly changed that.

 

I'm smiling. We put the oldest in charge to start with, too. And quickly changed it to everyone being the boss of themselves. :D That, in combination with the contract for who does what and how the house must look for me not to wake you up when I get home made things better.

 

At first, I got all sorts of tattling phone calls and silly questions. I think it really may be a sense of feeling you out and getting used to being on their own. After a little while, though, I came down pretty hard on the pestering phone calls. I felt pretty resentful about it, too.

 

Thank you for sharing that similar experience. It helps a lot. Especially knowing that you *felt* the same way!

 

I pretty much told them in no uncertain terms that if it didn't stop, I was going to call them non-stop the next time they were out with their friends! Probably a little harsh for your tastes, but it worked. Now I worry because they hardly ever call me when I'm out!

 

Oh, don't mistake my non punitive approach with lack of firm and even stern. :p I would consider that as a tool.

[Susan in TX]

I'd consider leaving my cell phone at home the next time I went out with DH. Is there someone else they could call if there is an emergency? Otherwise, I'd just make it VERY clear that they are not to call unless it is an emergency and then provide some sort of unpleasant consequences if they don't respect your wishes.

 

One other idea is to threaten to get them a babysitter.

 

Susan in TX

[WTMCassandra]

If this were a typical situation, I would agree with you. However, Joanne's children (and Joanne, of course) have been through a LOT in the last few years. That is why I'm suggesting a more step-by-step approach. Joanne has done an admirable job with her children, but there has been serious unrest in their lives, and I'm thinking it would be wise to take that into account. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm not sure it would be wise to jump from where they are now to that. I'm thinking "baby steps."

[Free Indeed]

 

. They are informed, trained, we have a written and explained contract on appropriate behavior and how the house should be handled.

 

 

 

I really do not have any great advice, except I agree that if things have been in turmoil they may need a bit more reassurance/security that calling you provides. Maybe tell them that YOU will call them to check in periodically and to only call you in case of emergency? I was wondering if you could tell me more about your contract thing because that sounds very interesting. ;)

[Paz]

As I am reading this thread my 18 yo ds asks me to help him pack for his weekend trip. My 15 yo dd follows me around the house continually. "Please leave, I am going to go to the bathroom." is something I say on a daily basis. LOL! My kids love spending time with me, which is a good thing, they are very independent if they need to be. I just need to do a better job on setting boundaries and making it clear when I need my spacel.

[Julie in CA]

I know that your parenting style and mine differ a bit, but I thought I'd still go ahead and offer another perspective (mine :)).

While I understand your feelings about going out with the new dh, it seems possible that your kids need a bit more time to adjust to all of the changes in their lives. Even if your new husband is wonderful to them, it may seem to your dc that you're choosing time with him instead of time with them, even if your kids don't consciously identify their feelings as jealousy. You've done a lot of sacrificing, but your kids may not be quite as ready as you are to move on yet.

Even if you feel that I'm way off-base about that, my other thought is that two nights a week is more than most married-with-kids folks take for themselves. Your kids still seem a bit young for you to be away that much in the evening. Many families would not leave kids your kids' ages quite that often.

In short, I think you just have to hold out a bit longer. This (in my mind) falls under the "seasons of life" thing. Before you know it, your kids will be full-on teens, and it'll be them leaving too often, and you calling them "just because."

Wishing you all the best, especially on those nights you do get out! :)

~Julie~

[Colleen]

nt

[Anna]

They are informed, trained, we have a written and explained contract on appropriate behavior and how the house should be handled.

 

It's been building; I have felt resentful and smothered and under appreciated that I can't *go* without a call about some form of tattling, a stupid question, "I just called to see how you were doing".

 

Do you perceive a change in what you consider to be the acceptable and expected level of accessibility?

 

Do you have similar feelings and experiences with your kids. Assuming you want time away and "space" and "breathing room", how have you made that happen?

 

Joanne,

 

Obviously, if your kids are still calling to tattle or ask stupid questions, they need more training. We hit a change when our oldest was about 10-12yo so we developed a transitional plan to *gradually* teach them how to be home alone. You know, baby steps.

 

At ages 13, 11 and 9, once you train them to call ICE only (in case of emergency) they should be fine. Only exception I'd make regardless of age is when one is dealing with limiting emotional or medical disorders/diseases. Like in my case, youngest dc was/is insulin dependent diabetic. We waited until oldest was about 15 before leaving her home alone to be responsible for overseeing younger sister's diabetes care while dh and I would be on a date.

 

Good for you to be taking the initiative for finding "alone time" for you and dh. The relationship between dh and dw should come first. Many homeschooling couples, yes, even Christian couples, are ending in divorce today at about the same rate as non-homeschooling couples because nobody makes time to tend to the fires of marriage. Their homeschooled kids ALWAYS had to come first. You know this. I'm mentioning it for other Christian readers to ponder. I applaud what you're doing.

 

Take some time to train your dc to learn what are the appropriate situations that you would want/not want them to call you. Only recently, my dh and I waited until oldest dd was 20yo, youngest was 17yo before we finally felt safe enough to go away (in our town) a few times a year for a romantic hotel night. Again, diabetes care was the deciding factor for us.

 

Before they become adults, kids need to understand that parents love them but that they (parents) have their own dh/dw relationship to nurture as well. Otherwise, how else will they understand the importance of keeping the marriage fires stoked if/when they become married. As a Christian couple my dh and I believe that our order of priority list for nurturing relationships looks like this:

 

1st- love of God

2nd- caring for relationship with spouse

3rd- caring for relationship with kids

4th- others

 

Sorry, this was more than you asked but I'm feeling especially long-winded this morning. Lucky you;):D

[Anna]

Oh, and one more thing....

 

When I first began leaving kids alone for brief errands, I made a point of always giving them non-urgent phone calls while I was out. The method to my madness:rolleyes: was to allow them time to be on the receiving end of the stupid phone calls. By the time dh and I began going on dates while kids were home alone, they understood really well how it feels to be interrupted for foolishness.

 

I know, I know, the board fairy is wicked:p

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Joanne, I've been thinking about your questions and your situation for some hours now. Off and on. Not constantly, lest you feel my attention to be creepy. LOL

 

I've been thinking about a couple of things you said. One was something to the effect "if they don't want to be awakened" to clean -- that is, they left the house a mess before going to bed.

 

That jumped out at me because it means that the kids are staying home long enough in the evening to get themselves into *bed* a couple of times a week. Just thinking about that gave me a hint as to what might be going on. Even as a grown woman, there are times that I just crave another adult in the house before sleeping. When dh was TDY or deployed, there was a different "feel" to being alone in the evening. The feeling wasn't there in the morning, but the vulnerability of the nighttime was there. I was a big girl and handled it, but I wasn't 13, 11, or 9, either.

 

I will grant you that I'm not carrying your burdens, and I don't pretend to have done so. But I will say that if you were gone the same hours in the morning that you are in the evening, your responsible children might have different reactions to your absence. Going to bed alone, particularly in light of what movies you said the ex-jerkface has shown your kids, might be stressful more than they will admit. We've always made a policy that date nights will end before the eldest's bedtime, by at least an hour or half hour. The eldest might "put" the younger to bed, but not everyone is asleep in the house without an adult home. If all the kids go to bed at the same time, then we're home before anyone turns in. Inconvenient, sure. But secure-making.

 

We've done Saturday morning dates before -- leave the kids to cartoons and cereal and/or some sleeping in. Same number of hours, still 7-12 maybe, but daylight rather than night. Afternoon, ditto.

 

If I had to put food on the table and my kids had to get themselves to bed two or three nights per week, well, that would just be The Way Things Are and they would adapt. Though honestly, at their ages, I would try my level best to have an adult around for evenings. I remember that the best trouble I ever got into was when I was older and "responsible" in the eyes of adults and, yeah, even when I was directly responsible for littler people. I operate with the principle that a child left to himself has at least the potential of bringing his mother to shame, to paraphrase Solomon. And I wouldn't, I have to say, leave them a couple of times a week. Once every three as a treat to all of us, sure. Not that often at night, though, and particularly if they were "telling" me that they were not handling this well.

 

Take this or leave it, of course, and there's always that handy dandy "ignore" button :) if you need it. My heart was burdened for you and yours last night. I think of you often and hope for life's very best for you and your precious kiddos. You've helped me sooo much, more than you'll ever directly know, in the past four years. So I was, honestly, afraid to post this, afraid I'd sound like I'm scolding or overstepping. Anyway, my two cents to take or leave. You know your own situation best.

[Anna]

We've always made a policy that date nights will end before the eldest's bedtime, by at least an hour or half hour. The eldest might "put" the younger to bed, but not everyone is asleep in the house without an adult home. If all the kids go to bed at the same time, then we're home before anyone turns in. Inconvenient, sure. But secure-making.

 

Unless, dh and I are doing a rare night at a hotel, we practice this too. Even with my kids being 20 and 17, they'd rather have us home before they turn in. Of course, that's not a biggie for us because our kids like to stay up late and dh and I DON'T like going out to dinner real late because it makes it harder for us later on to get to sleep. But, yes, it's creepy even for my kids to go to sleep when we're not in the house. Heck, I'm like that when my dh is on business trips:(.

[Ria]

We do this, too:

 

Unless, dh and I are doing a rare night at a hotel, we practice this too. Even with my kids being 20 and 17, they'd rather have us home before they turn in. Of course, that's not a biggie for us because our kids like to stay up late and dh and I DON'T like going out to dinner real late because it makes it harder for us later on to get to sleep. But, yes, it's creepy even for my kids to go to sleep when we're not in the house. Heck, I'm like that when my dh is on business trips:(.

 

I think Pam of the Flaming Sword's input is stellar. Personally, I think kids, even teens, benefit from parents who spend most nights at home. There's the comfort factor for the kids, and the safety factor for them as well (especially once they become teens...).

 

Ria

[Joanne]

Without quoting anyone in particular......

 

I do not think it's a fair assessment to compare what "most parents do" in terms of being out "X" times a week. Most parents are away from their kids 8 hours a day minimum due to outside the home education and/or work.

 

I hear the posts on kids going to bed without adult company. That might well be a contributing factor. I'm not sure that changes on my part are the solution or needed, but greater sensitivity and awareness of that as an issue will likely help.

 

While I appreciate that my kids might still need time and processing to get to the other side of the major changes in their lives....I have done much consciously to assist with that.

 

I'm trying to be open to the feedback. Really. And I am processing all of it.

 

Since emerging from the depths of my former situation and moving out of the "littles" years with my kids.....having been a part of the AP and HS community for years, I am beginning to question some things and evaluate them in terms of family health.

[Jackie in AR]

Without quoting anyone in particular......

 

I do not think it's a fair assessment to compare what "most parents do" in terms of being out "X" times a week. Most parents are away from their kids 8 hours a day minimum due to outside the home education and/or work.

 

I hear the posts on kids going to bed without adult company. That might well be a contributing factor. I'm not sure that changes on my part are the solution or needed, but greater sensitivity and awareness of that as an issue will likely help.

 

While I appreciate that my kids might still need time and processing to get to the other side of the major changes in their lives....I have done much consciously to assist with that.

 

I'm trying to be open to the feedback. Really. And I am processing all of it.

 

Since emerging from the depths of my former situation and moving out of the "littles" years with my kids.....having been a part of the AP and HS community for years, I am beginning to question some things and evaluate them in terms of family health.

 

But your dc are still *little*, Joanne.

 

12, 11, and 9 are not ages that most consider to be mature.

 

If they need you to be home more at night, then I think you should consider meeting their needs.

 

You've had a lot to deal with these past few years and I understand you wanting to get out and have some fun now. But could you wait just a little longer to be gone so much? Until they really are more mature?

 

Just something to consider. I wish you and your family the best. :)

[Amy in NH]

I think Pam's comments are good advice. Houses can seem scary when you're "alone" at night.

 

But as a child of divorced parents, I have to agree with Julie.

 

My Mom was the one who asked for a divorce. She had already gotten over the end of her marraige to my father before the papers were filed, but it was a *HUGE* shock to me. Dad moved out at the end of November, just before my birthday, and Mom met a new boyfriend at a Christmas party where she worked. She wanted to spend time with him, naturally. She wanted grown up time, to be a person instead of always Mom. Granted, she was busy with other things too (which you may not be since you are home with them during the day). But it felt like the "free" time she had she chose to spend with *him* instead of *us*; she loved him better.

 

They were together 10 years before they were married, and now they've been married for 20 years. This has been an important relationship for her, not just some rebound boyfriend. And I've honestly been relieved, because as a child I remember worrying that someday she would be *alone* when I grew up. But as a child, I was also horribly jealous and hurt that she wanted to spend so much time with him and *without me*.

 

As a matter of fact, I turned to drinking and drugs when she wasn't home. Boredom? Dull the "pain"? Just plain unsupervised, with time to experiment? I can't remember what my motivation was, but now I know that I threw some important years of my life away (in fact there are stretches I just can't remember), and although I am on a good path now I think I really could have made something of my life if I had followed the plan I had set for myself before my whole life changed when my parents split up.

 

You might be ready to move on to the next phase of your life, but it seems like your kids aren't.

 

Just wanted to share my experience.

[JudoMom]

It seems that you are using your choices about how you've raised your children (homeschooling, AP, etc) as reasons why they should be able to handle the time home at night without you. The way you've raised them, though, are your choices. You've brought up that you are with them all day with homeschooling, etc, so they should be able to give you a night where you can go out alone without being on call. But being homeschooled isn't their choice (although I'm sure they love it and want nothing different), so it's not fair to tell them "I do this for you, so do this for me" (which is what it sounds like as an outsider reading it, and I really hope this doesn't sound harsh). On paper, I agree with you. They are old enough to stay home alone without calling you. But their behavior is telling you something different. I wouldn't let them call to tattle, but if they need to call you for other silly reasons, I think that is fair (frustrating for you, yes, but fair to them nonetheless).

 

FWIW, I also agree with Pam about the nighttime issue. But this is coming from a woman who slept on her parent's floor during thunderstorms until she was 20 and moved several states away :o.

[Holly IN]

Questions Joanne asked:

 

"The first question is general: Do you perceive a change in what you consider to be the acceptable and expected level of accessibility?"

 

Not really. I really feel more comfortable in being gone if I have a cell phone with me. Now it is your choice to answer the phone. I have cancelled some calls when I was busy and couldn't talk at that moment. Now as far as expectation of the level of accessibility is different. My family are fine with me gone as long as they know they can get ahold of me at any time. They do not call me. ha ha Now if they were alone they probably will call me. I have left my oldest at home by himself (he is of age) and hasn't called me yet. He was worried though when I didn't come home in one hour. He thinks one hour is enough time. :D

 

 

 

"The second is more specific: Do you have similar feelings and experiences with your kids. Assuming you want time away and "space" and "breathing room", how have you made that happen?"

 

I would love to be home with my kids all the time. I really have no need to go out with girls every weekend. I go out with my friends from the homeschool group about 2 times a year. I am currently working at nights so I am away from my husband and kids every night (5 nights a week and every other Saturday night). I do not want this but I have to work in order to make ends meet. Hopefully this will end in 2 years. So this happened by force. I would love to be home with my family every night. Before I started working I had no problem with being home with my kids. Now I do crave a date with my husband at least once a month. We can't afford one a week though. (it would be nice though)

 

As far as breathing room when I wasn't working, shopping for groceries without the kids is one of them. Taking a hot bath at night when the kids go to bed or up with their daddy is another. A little breathing room is fine with me but not a whole lot. kwim?

 

Hope this helps!

 

Holly

[Holly IN]

I agree with Julie....

 

Like I said in my post that I have no problem with having a cell phone on me. My kids are ok as long as I have my cell phone. In a divorce situation, this is totally different. New man in the house...

 

Sounds like your kids needs reassurance like Julie said. I think Julie hit the nail on the head on this one. I know it is probably not want you want to hear.

 

Another point I like to make is I consider homeschooling a lifestyle choice. I don't school at home. I homeschool all the time so I crave my time with my kids. Remember you only have them for about 18-20 years. Treasure your time with them. Like I said my dh and I can't afford to go out 1 time a week. It is more like 1 time a month. (I am not saying you aren't treasuring your time with them at all) Just a bit of reminder on how much time you have left with them while you have them in your home.

 

Just a suggestion...How about you and your dh involved the kids in going out with you? Think of yourself as a family with the dh instead of dh vs. the kids. In a divorce situation that is what I would do.

 

I re-read your post to see the ages of the kids....Wow! I wouldn't even leave my kids at home at that age. The oldest one I would but not the others. My kids will kill each other if I left them at home at those ages. Again each family is different and that is ok.

 

 

 

Just a thought and my humble opinion.

 

Blessings-

 

Holly

 

 

 

I know that your parenting style and mine differ a bit, but I thought I'd still go ahead and offer another perspective (mine :)).

While I understand your feelings about going out with the new dh, it seems possible that your kids need a bit more time to adjust to all of the changes in their lives. Even if your new husband is wonderful to them, it may seem to your dc that you're choosing time with him instead of time with them, even if your kids don't consciously identify their feelings as jealousy. You've done a lot of sacrificing, but your kids may not be quite as ready as you are to move on yet.

Even if you feel that I'm way off-base about that, my other thought is that two nights a week is more than most married-with-kids folks take for themselves. Your kids still seem a bit young for you to be away that much in the evening. Many families would not leave kids your kids' ages quite that often.

In short, I think you just have to hold out a bit longer. This (in my mind) falls under the "seasons of life" thing. Before you know it, your kids will be full-on teens, and it'll be them leaving too often, and you calling them "just because."

Wishing you all the best, especially on those nights you do get out! :)

~Julie~

[Joanne]

You might be ready to move on to the next phase of your life, but it seems like your kids aren't.

 

But your dc are still *little*, Joanne.

 

12, 11, and 9 are not ages that most consider to be mature.

 

If they need you to be home more at night, then I think you should consider meeting their needs.

 

Wow, people. This is interesting, assumptive and possibly a bit much. I have a common problem; my kids call me "a lot" when I am out. It seems to have happened also to several people in this thread who are NOT divorced and remarried. I think some posters are making an inaccurate assesment of this and assuming a whole lot.

 

The fact that they call does not equal needing me.

The fact that I am asking does not mean they aren't mature enough to be unsupervised a couple of evenings a week.

"Littles"? I don't think so. I'm not sending them out for a job to pay rent.

 

Like I said my dh and I can't afford to go out 1 time a week.

 

We go and play Texas Hold Em. It costs us $5.00 for 2 iced teas (non alcoholic) and gas.

 

Just a suggestion...How about you and your dh involved the kids in going out with you? Think of yourself as a family with the dh instead of dh vs. the kids. In a divorce situation that is what I would do.

 

Um, just WOW. This is very insulting. We are more family now than my kids have ever experienced.

 

Here is a list of things we have done together as a family in the past year:

 

Movies

Camping

Fishing, both while camping and not

Houston LiveStock Show and Rodeo

Motorcycle Rally

Trip to Galveston to ride the ferry and see the sites

See the Alamo

Numerous (I'm guessing more than 10) family church events

Church every week the kids are with us

Dinner

Family Movie Nights

Family Game Nights

 

I NEVER had a FAMILY life in my former situation; let alone an adult only time.

 

This weekend, my DH is in training to be a process server. The training is in San Antonio. At his suggestion, we asked my xh if we could trade weekends around so that we could take the kids. We'll do the whole family thing when he's not in training, I'll be with them on the River Walk all day Saturday and Sunday we are going to visit one of the missions that is not the Alamo. We *could* have enjoyed this weekend alone as still newlyweds but we preferred to include the kids.

 

The fact that I go out without them does not mean:

 

1) I don't do things with them, without DH

2) I don't do things with them as a family

3) That my family isn't thriving

 

The truth is my family is more healthy and thriving than it ever was.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Wow, people. This is interesting, assumptive and possibly a bit much. I have a common problem; my kids call me "a lot" when I am out. It seems to have happened also to several people in this thread who are NOT divorced and remarried. I think some posters are making an inaccurate assesment of this and assuming a whole lot.

 

 

I am so so so sorry I answered, Joanne. I never meant to make you feel this way.

 

I only have my own experience and perspective looking back on my own kids, who I also considered not little anymore when they were 12, 11, and 9, and my own times of feeling overwhelmed. I have a different perspective of how mature I consider 12, 11, and 9 looking *back* on those ages instead of being *in* that stage of family life. That perspective is all I had to share.

 

You sound like you feel slapped. But I'm pretty sure that people were just putting a hand out to offer help and it might have accidentally hit your face. The intention wasn't to slap, though I realize that what I said and even that I thought about it at all might seem that way.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I have 3 younger boys, ages 14, 8 and 3. Dh and I have only recently begun to leave them alone together. This is with the clear understanding that the 14yo is in charge and he is paid. Even so we only do this on a special need basis, not regularly. I always call them as soon as we get where we are going to make sure everything is hunky-dory. We would never have left them at the ages your children are without someone more mature available to them.

 

So, yes, I believe a parent or parents should be available 24/7. It's part of the job. Not only that, having been a child that was left alone with siblings at a young age, I know it can be a scary thing. A contract does not give a child a feeling of security, which is what I think your kids obviously need. I would think that with everything they have been through, a sense of security is actually top priority.

 

When I need time alone, I leave the boys with dh and go shopping or to the library, or a friend's house, by myself. When dh and I want to go out together we make sure the 17yo will be home, or engage the 14yo as a babysitter. But really we try not to take advantage of the fact that we have two older boys. When I was a teenager, I felt a lot of resentment at my parents for using me as their (free) live-in babysitter.

 

I would be more concerned if my children did not want me accessible to them.

 

I have not read the other posts, so forgive me if I've repeated anything.

[Tammyla]

You said, "I am with my kids, except every other weekend and poker nights 24/7 unless it is a child centered activity... It's been building; I have felt resentful and smothered and under appreciated that I can't *go* without a call about some form of tattling, a stupid question, "I just called to see how you were doing".

 

Feeling resentful is a very normal feeling, but you changed their lives almost 100% and iah, need more time all around. So do, MAKE the most of your EVERY OTHER WEEKEND. That is a lot of time:) Do try to be home before bed as some other poster mentioned. AND another biggie, why shouldn't/couldn't your date time be their time be fun too? (((Hugs,))) but you are getting all the warm fuzzies out of date night and they are getting the short end of the stick.

 

Changes are hard on kids even good ones. You know your life is happier, better ect..but their lives may be harder, with more rules, less mom time, love and attention. To a kid, even a teen this is a loss that needs to be addressed.

 

And we moms sympathize, empathize, understand and are often in the camp longing for me time.

[katilac]

I think that 9, 11 and 13 is quite young to be left alone for two evenings a week, particularly until after bedtime. I have a 9 yr old, and we leave her with adults only - - we don't consider young teens capable of truly adult supervision. Others will disagree, but when push comes to shove, it only matters if THESE kids are emotionally and developmentally ready to deal with your particular situation.

 

Your need for adult and 'off-duty' time is understandable. Their reluctance and difficulties are understandable as well - - many kids don't like being home alone. This is not an issue where I would be comfortable insisting on compliance; if a child says or indicates they aren't ready to be home alone or with near-age siblings, that would be that.

 

The benefits do not outweight the dangers, and it's common for kids to have trouble articulating their specific fears, insecurities or concerns. Sometimes kids are embarrassed to admit to 'silly' fears, or reluctant to rat out a sibling whose behavior is making them uncomfortable or afraid. We all like to think that OUR kids know they can tell us anything, but it's not always true.

 

One thing I would do is begin to slowly work towards more independence and quiet time on their part when you ARE home. This builds their own confidence and lessens your stress.

 

There are several things I'd address when it comes to leaving them alone for alone or couple time. I think that twice a week is a lot, so I'd probably dial that back to begin with. If you feel that it's needed, what others factors can be changed? I would consider:

 

*coming home before bedtime

*taking the phone calls in stride until they have more experience

*taking a few hours in the day on Saturday or Sunday - - dates don't have to be at night!

*hiring a sitter or having them go to a friend's house, rather than staying home alone

*having one of the times be date night, and the other time be alternating alone time for you and dh (with the other staying with the kids)

*asking the kids what would make it easier for them

 

I would also take a long hard look at outside activities. It sounds like a lot of time and energy goes into dealing with their sports teams, which perhaps aggravates the feeling of being over stretched and in need of a break. I would decide if the activity was important enough to consume that many family resources, and if the family as a whole can deal with the demands in good grace. If the answer to either question is no, curtailing or quitting some activities may be part of the answer.

 

Kids are not a grateful lot in general, ;), and their emotional needs are rarely 'reasonable.' It can indeed be frustrating when they seem unable to respond in a loving way to OUR needs and desires, but that immaturity is one of the reasons they are under our protection.

[Holly IN]

Um, just WOW. This is very insulting. We are more family now than my kids have ever experienced.

 

Here is a list of things we have done together as a family in the past year:

 

Movies

Camping

Fishing, both while camping and not

Houston LiveStock Show and Rodeo

Motorcycle Rally

Trip to Galveston to ride the ferry and see the sites

See the Alamo

Numerous (I'm guessing more than 10) family church events

Church every week the kids are with us

Dinner

Family Movie Nights

Family Game Nights

 

I NEVER had a FAMILY life in my former situation; let alone an adult only time.

 

 

 

Joanne

 

Sorry if I insulted you. It wasn't my intention to do so. I just got a glimpse of your situation when you posted your situation. I do not know you or your family. It was just a suggestion not that I am insinuating that you do not spend time with your kids or include them. I am so sorry I even got involved in this thread. I am bowing out of this. I am sorry Joanne!

 

Holly

[Joanne]

AND another biggie, why shouldn't/couldn't your date time be their time be fun too? (((Hugs,))) but you are getting all the warm fuzzies out of date night and they are getting the short end of the stick.

 

Changes are hard on kids even good ones. You know your life is happier, better ect..but their lives may be harder, with more rules, less mom time, love and attention. To a kid, even a teen this is a loss that needs to be addressed.

 

I must not have articulated and posted much about my (and their) quality of life during my former marriage.

 

Some of these posts do not touch our/my/their reality at all. Indeed, the first quoted paragraph shows that you haven't read (or perhaps haven't believed) my responses in this thread.

 

It seems that you are using your choices about how you've raised your children (homeschooling, AP, etc) as reasons why they should be able to handle the time home at night without you.

 

Based on what I have posted in this thread, I understand why you responded with this. It opens a related topic, one this is intriguiging to me but one that I do not wish to discuss right now. I am not using my choices to assert they are ready or that I deserve the time. Instead, I think aspects of the AP and HS community are not healthy in regard to family/individual/couple time.

[bkpan]

Please try not to be so defensive re the responses you have received. You have been offered various "opinions" based on the questions you raised. These posters are not out to attack you, but to offer you other perspectives. (and I think that they have been very gentle in their responses). Overall, I think that many disagree with some of your assumptions about your dc just given the info you have shared. That's OK! They are just opinions. No one knows your situation as you do.

 

That said, it might be wise to examine why you are so defensive in this area. Many of us come from backgrounds of divorce and may relate to what you have shared about how your dc have responded. Isn't it just possible there could be a kernel of truth there? I think that is all some of the posters have recommended. Look at the situation closely. Of course you need time away with your dh. I don't think that anyone is disagreeing there. You just might want to examine the timing and the frequency.

 

Joanne, I'm sorry you feel that the posts you have received were intended to be anything less than helpful to you. From an outsider pov, I only saw attempts to assist you in finding a peaceful solution for your home. Blessings to you.

 

Kim in TN (used to be in NV)

[Joanne]

That said, it might be wise to examine why you are so defensive in this area.

 

Absolutely.

 

Many of us come from backgrounds of divorce and may relate to what you have shared about how your dc have responded. Isn't it just possible there could be a kernel of truth there? I think that is all some of the posters have recommended. Look at the situation closely. Of course you need time away with your dh. I don't think that anyone is disagreeing there. You just might want to examine the timing and the frequency.

 

Yes, I think there is a kernel of truth to it. I think evaluating this through the background of divorce is just as experientially biased as my own defensiveness. Kids from non divorced families have called their parents "often".

 

Joanne, I'm sorry you feel that the posts you have received were intended to be anything less than helpful to you. From an outsider pov, I only saw attempts to assist you in finding a peaceful solution for your home. Blessings to you.

 

Thank you. Some of the posts were, indeed, insulting. Many were not; they were thoughtful and helpful. But some assumed that a couple of nights out with my DH a week = no family time. That was/is insulting.

[PariSarah]

The first question is general: Do you perceive a change in what you consider to be the acceptable and expected level of accessibility?

 

Do you mean a change in society? Perhaps. I think it's most likely that there have always been all kinds of assumptions about children's need/desire for adult presence. Among certain socio-economic classes, something is considered "normal" that among others would be considered abusive, and vice versa.

 

If there is a society-wide change where more seems to be expected of Mom and Dad (in terms of immediate availability), I think it may be because of the increasing transience and isolation in our society. My grandmother has lived in the same house for fifty years. I have lived in seven different homes in the last ten years. She could rely on Mrs. Andresie next door to look in on the kids if she went out; I don't even know my next-door neighbor's name. That puts more of the burden on me to be available to my kids, because who else would?

 

The second is more specific: Do you have similar feelings and experiences with your kids? Assuming you want time away and "space" and "breathing room", how have you made that happen?

 

Yes, I often feel the need for "space" and "breathing room," but aside from those days I'm at work, I rarely take it in long bursts. My children's need for me seems age-appropriate; my need for "space" is related to my excessively introverted personality and so I'm content that "getting away" from them usually involves them sleeping. It doesn't seem fair for me to put my rather extreme personality quirks ahead of genuine needs.

 

But, then again, they don't seem to have what I would consider an unbalanced or excessive need for me to be available. They don't come pester me when I'm on the potty, and most days I can take a shower without a problem. And I do get to trade off with my spouse, which allows me twenty hours a week in a locked carrell in a library. Even my near-pathological case of introversion is mostly satisfied with that.

 

You didn't ask for a critique of your decision, and I have not had the experiences you have (with either spouse or children), so I would like to tread carefully here: I do think it's appropriate for you to set limits on the circumstances for which your kids should be calling you. I have long been comfortable with saying to my 9yods, "That question/story/comment can wait until I've finished my paper/you've finished naptime/we get back home/etc." You don't need me to agree with you, but I will: boundaries are a good thing. Saying "No" is not child abuse.

 

But I also have found that whenever I have set new boundaries (or begun to enforce ones that I'd been lax with previously) that I need to plan the transition carefully, taking into account the sort of boundary it is, the sort of kid I'm dealing with, and the context of our relationship. Sometimes, I have decided that a cold turkey approach is best and it's worked out fine. Sometimes, I have recognized the need for a gentle approach, and it's worked out fine. Sometimes, I've made the wrong call, though, and I've needed to back up and start over--either explaining that ds was taking advantage of my gentleness and it would cease or apologizing for not giving him time to adapt to the new circumstances.

 

I can't put myself in your shoes, really, but there are a lot of things about your situation that would be, for me, markers that signal a need to go slow with enforcing this particular boundary.

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

"Wanting to scream 'STOP TOUCHING ME' even if no one is"... Yes. Yes. Yes. That is it!

 

All 3 of my boys are very physical and interactive. My 3yo in particular is a very touchy-feely guy. Constantly in my space, touching me or what I'm working on. By the end of the day..... my poor husband!

[Amy in NH]

Joanne,

I have always respected your thoughtful and pragmatic parenting advice. I understand that in this case you were asking for help solving what you thought the problem was - your kids calling too often when you're out having adult time with your new husband, when you think they shouldn't need you 24/7. But I think many of us see that there is an underlying problem that is causing the percieved problem behavior. And that's not what you want to hear. What is the saying about when *everyone else* is wrong?...

 

Maybe the people you are out playing cards with are permissive parents who are telling you something else?

 

Although I was a homebirthing, breastfeeding, cloth-diapering, baby wearing, co-sleeping (to a point), homeschooling Mom who sometimes read mothering.com, I have always disagreed with quite a few aspects of AP and have had tons of flames and posts deleted over there because of it. I would definitely NOT consider myself an AP parent because I don't buy a lot of their parenting stuff. I think there are many non-AP parents here. But, if you think homeschoolers are also wrong about their marraige relationships, and you don't want a homeschooling-parent's perspective, you might want to take your question to another place where people will tell you what you want to hear.

 

And, once again, as a former child & now also a parent of a divorced family, you are seeing this situation from your perspective as a newlywed, but try to see it from the perspective of an immature child who has had a lot of upheaval (yes for the better, but upheaval nonetheless), or even from the perspective of an outsider.

 

Maybe you should step back from this thread and visit it in a few days with a more open mind to what we are saying? Because I don't think anyone here is trying to offend you, and your tone is very defensive.

[PariSarah]

Sometimes all that togetherness gets almost physical, and you just want to scream STOP TOUCHING ME! Even if nobody is. I think it's the reason some women simply cannot breastfeed.

 

:D

 

Theo is mostly-weaning himself these days, and I'm just starting to be able to, like, hug people again.

 

(My family, that is. That wasn't an open invitation to hugging, all you space-invaders out there!)

 

Poor Isaac. He'll have lots to tell his therapist about "the year Mommy kept threatening to chop off my feet."

[Joanne]

Maybe the people you are out playing cards with are permissive parents who are telling you something else?

 

I don't ask parenting advice at poker.

[Joanne]

Maybe you should step back from this thread and visit it in a few days with a more open mind to what we are saying? Because I don't think anyone here is trying to offend you, and your tone is very defensive.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Perhaps you are right. However, I do think some of the assumptions and posts were insulting; particularly those that assumed a lack of family time.

 

I think the topics contained within this issue are very complex.

[Amy in NH]

But people make comments, either spoken or with their body language, that might indicate that something is not okay with them, or that what you're doing isn't cool. Or they have kids the same age that are home alone during poker games, and their kids aren't calling. Or maybe people discuss their kids, even in a different context?

 

I'm just trying to feel out the situation... no offense intended.